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2017/09/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/26    

2005/2/3-7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36058 Activity:low
2/3     IGN / Gamespy is hiring. J2EE, .NET, DBA, C++, a ton of marketing
        and sales, some creative folks such a graphic artists and video
        producers. Even a lawyer. Some jobs in Brisbane and a couple are down
        in Irvine. All listed online. email for info. -shac
        http://corp.igngamespy.com/jobs.html
        \_ I love the qualifications:
           - Minimum of 5 years experience creating features for a hi-profile
             Windows application in widespread use.
             \_ and then?
        \_ J2EE is an acronym that stands for "Horrible Fucking Job That You
           Don't Want."
2005/2/3-7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36052 Activity:kinda low
2/2     We just IPO'd and are hiring like mad. -ausman
        http://www.planetoutinc.com/careers
        also at /csua/pub/jobs/PlanetOut
        All jobs are in San Francisco.
        \_ gay!
           \_ You don't have to be gay to work here, but you have to be
              gay friendly.
              \_ isn't that discriminatory?
                 \_ No.  It's pretty reasonable to require prospective
                    employees to be able to get along with the existing
                    employees.  You don't have to love homosexuality, but if
                    you have a serious problem with it, it will have major
                    impacts on your interaction with other employees and
                    customers.
                    \_ Wow, I didn't even write that! -ausman
                \_ I think a great http://theonion.com story would be one about
                   a straight guy hired to work at Saks or Neiman Marcus
                   in SF and gets sexually harassed and made fun of by the
                   other male employees.
        \_ Initial Public Out-of-the-closet?  Congrats!
        \_ dear religious conservatives like emarkp and jrleek, what do you
           think about this company? Do you think it is immoral and that they
           will fail and go to hell? Would you consider joining their company
           for the purpose of converting these pagans into good Christians?
           \_ Mmm, anonymous flamebait directed at specific sodans!  Yay!
           \_ The important distinction is the compnay is in the private sector.
              Consequently, if they want to give "partnership" benefits to
              random individuals,  make the bathrooms gender
              neutral, and make workers accept cross-dressers, and
              promote unprotected sex with strangers
              congrats to them.  However, when you try to
              force everyone to accept this, or even compensate you for
              your lack of resposibility, at the point of a gun, using the
              government as your agent, it becomes a problem.  Is this really
              that hard to understand?
                \_ I nominate this as "most likely to get flamed"
        \_ The first entry in the list says it's in New York.
           \_ They just added that one.
        \_ have you guys considered expanding to say, Oklahoma, Tennessee,
           and Texas? Just as missionaries go to foreign countries to
           spread their good will, maybe you guys can go abroad to spread
           your belief as well.
           \_ Not really, though the region a plurality of our members live
              is The South. -ausman
2005/2/1-3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36020 Activity:nil 50%like:32725 57%like:36755
2/1     Job openings at Marimba Mountain View, /csua/pub/jobs/Marimba
        \_ Marimba is still around?
           \_ Bought out by BMC, but still exists as an organization within
              them.
2017/09/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/26    

2005/1/26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:35903 Activity:kinda low
1/26    ResComp is Hiring! Up to $19/hour for student staff.
        /csua/pub/jobs/rescomp - erikk
        \_ Drink the koolaid!!!
2005/1/17-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:35754 Activity:moderate
1/17    Anyone interviewed recently, how is the job market?
        \_ Job?  Why are you asking me about the book of Job?  That's not
           even my field...or is there something I'm missing here? -gradstudent
        \_ Guess that tells you...
           \_ Guess that means the job market is good, everyone has jobs.
              \_ Or that no one is hiring..
        \_ Interviewed extensively in November; end result: no one hired
           anyone. Am hoping January will turn out much better.
        \_ Just interviewed at Google, am interviewing with Joe Random Startup
           next week.  The former was a cold call request for an interview,
           the latter was through a friend.  I'm not even looking for a job and
           have told both of them so.  I've had an offer of an interview at
           Yahoo! from a friend.  I'd say places are hiring again.  (Or at
           least interviewing).
           \_ You're not looking for a job, but you are interviewing?!?!
              \_ I'm not the previous poster, but I like to interview every
                 year or two.  It helps me keep track of how much I should be
                 making, and reminds me that I could leave my job if I wanted
                 to (or that I couldn't, depending).  Like the previous poster,
                 I always say up front that I'm not looking for a job.  No one
                 seems to mind.
        \_ So far 3 interviews and 0 offers :-(
           \_ I hear you.  Is this a pretty common situation?
              \_ You tell me.
2005/1/10-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:35643 Activity:moderate
1/10    How soon after you start working at a new place is it reasonable
        to ask for a raise?  (assuming you had already been a contractor
        for them and so it's not a case of "well you didn't know how
        damn awsome I was before I started."  'Cause they did.)
        \_ 3 months. At most big companies they will have a 3 month
           peformance review. It is reasonable to discuss a raise w/
           your supervisor during that review.
           your supervisor during that review (provided that you are
           doing much more work than was initially expected of you).
        \_ At a smaller place 1 year is typical.
        \_ Raise?  My company is just laying off people.
           \_ Peoplesoft, huh?
              \_ Nope.  Different company.
        \_ Right after you blow the CEO.
           \_ This is something Carly might actually be good at, but I
           \_ This is something Carly might actually be good for, but I
              doubt it.
              \_ Carly is hot enough to give you a "raise"?
2005/1/5 [Industry/Jobs, Recreation/Humor] UID:35553 Activity:kinda low
1/5     Need someone to show the parents for the holidays but put off by the
        stigma attached to hiring a lady of the night? Now there's a service
        for you:
        http://csua.org/u/al5
        \_ ob hawt bengali potemkin dates for partha
        \_ HAHAHAHA funny funny, thanks for sharing it. Keep up the funny
           links!
2005/1/4-5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:35544 Activity:moderate
1/4     I'm developing a website and would like it to look as professional
        as possible, but I don't have enough money to hire a web designer
        to design the entire site. I do, however, want to hire someone to
        design and create the logo and title image/logo of the home page.
        I can't afford to pay too much though (<$100). Does anyone have any
        ideas (or even specific recommendations) how to go about finding
        someone for this job? Thanks.
        \_ craigslist
           \_ Good plan "NSA bj in exch for web design work" should do the
              trick.
              \_ What does "NSA" mean in this context?
                 \_ No strings attached
                    \_ That's not the NSA I know and love. -jrleek
                       \_ There No Such Agency, citizen.
        \_ http://www.megrisoft.com/services/webdesign/logo_design_india.html
2005/1/3-4 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:35532 Activity:moderate
1/3     I have a better question.  What % of tay payer money actually reaches
        it target for expenditure.  For example, for Medicare / Medicaid,
        welfare, education, this is pennies on the dollar.
        \_ I think you need to define your terms more.  And not to be pedantic,
           but 'pennies on the dollar' includes everything short of 100%.  As
           far as 'reaches its target', what counts?  If medicare spends $100
           on a prescription, should you count $100, or the retail price of the
           drug, or the wholesale price, or the manufacturer's cost?  Education
           is even stickier.  Do you count teacher's salaries?  Do you count
           money spent on building maintainance?  What about a principal or
           superintendant's salary?  Or perhaps you're just trying to start
           some flamewar on "the government's wasting MY money!"
           \_ you're an idiot.  -tom
           \_ How about asking the question in terms of staff per customer
              served?  For schools, that would be (# students)/(# persons
              drawing a salary at the state and local level).
              \_ For CA, the ratio seems to be (10 students)/(1 salary
                 drawer).  Just teachers alone the ratio is (21.2 students)/
                 (1 teacher), so the other staff:teacher ratio is almost 1:1.
2004/12/10-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:35243 Activity:high
12/10   Has anyone worked for Deloitte as a system analyst?  What's the
        best and and worst thing about working there?
        \_ How much does that job pay?
           \_ I'm not an analyst, so I don't know exactly how much they
              are making, they don't publish the salaries internally.
              Though I can estimate based on a Manager's salary.  For a first
              year Systems Analyst (Consultant) it would probably be
              $55-$60k.
                \_ What about for a person with 10 years experience?
                   \_ With 10yrs and assuming Managerial experience you
                      may be able to come in as a Manager which means
                      $95-$105k.
                \_ why do you guys always care about pay? yes it's
                   important, but an enjoyable job far outweighs a good
                   salary. !op
                   \_ Because you can ask for and get a reasonably helpful
                      answer on the motd-- quality of life, enjoyability,
                      etc ratings are harder to come by.
                   \_ It's called "living in the bay area"
                      \_ IT'S NOT A HOUSING BUBBLE!!!!  PRICES ARE TOTALLY
                         REASONABLE!!!!  IF YOU WONT PAY 700,000 DOLLARS
                         FOR A SHITHOLE SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE SOUTH
                         BAY 45 MINUTES FROM ANYTHING YOU ARE JUST LAZY!!!
                         \_ Bitter that you didn't get in while you
                            still could?
                            \_ OF COURSE I'M BITTER!!!! OBVIOUSLY ANYONE WHO
                               DOESN'T LIVE IN THE BAY AREA IS BITTER AND
                               STUPID!!!!
                        \_ true but I'm assuming the op has viable alternatives.
                   \_ I am interested in what other companies pay. This is
                      very important in terms of career growth and options.
                      Obviously, the job has to be enjoyable, but it has
                      to pay well, too. Otherwise, forget it. Yes, I want
                      it all. Don't you?
                   \_ Though job satisfaction is important, you can't eat it or
                      buy a house with it.  If I wanted a cool job with no pay,
                      I could do that at home.
                      \_ "Hell, you don't nee a million dollars to do that, man;
                         take a look at my cousin. He's broke, don't do shit."
        \_ Not an answer to your question, but my one experience with them
           was bad bordering on hilarious.  Of course that was D&T UK.  -John
        \_ I've been with Deloitte for 7 years, 5 in the Systems group
           (ERS).  I think it's a great company, though certainly not my
           dream job.
           + Stable job
           + Meet a lot of different people
           + Work with different Managers
           + Reasonable pay, fluctuates with market
           + Learn about different computer environments
           + Travel 10-30% (Hawaii)
           - Long hours parts of the year
           - Auditing clients generally not well received
             \_ DT guys breathed down our IT department's neck
                so much, they got the CIO fired.
                \_ Whoops, was that your CIO? ;)
                \_ Here they did their share of destroying a ~$500 million
                   e-banking project, were raided by immigration services
                   several times for using contractors without valid permits
                   (thereby losing ca. half their effective workforce each
                   time), designed a platform around AS400 (this in 1999) only
                   to realize 75% through the deployment that their key
                   component didn't run on AS400, and ended up being sued for
                   gross incompetence and negligence by the client.  It was
                   classic big IT consulting firm.  -John
           - Slow to adjust pay to Market
           - Travel 10-30% (Idaho)
2004/11/15-16 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW] UID:34906 Activity:kinda low
11/15   What's a typical salary for an entry-level web app developer in the
        SFBA?
        \_ Two dollahs and fifteen cents
        \_ $50 if you can suppress the gag reflex
        \_ what kind of "web app developer"? if you're just some code monkey,
           probably 12.50-20, but if it's "software engineering", then it
           should probably be more like 25-30.
           \_ are we talking about hourly?
              \_ of course, no one talks about yearly as 12.50.
2004/11/13-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:34878 Activity:low
11/13   Top 10 Degrees:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/12/pf/college/degrees_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes
        \_ chemical engineers make the most:
        http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/21/pf/college/starting_salaries/index.htm
        \_ I wonder how "dropout from tech major in top university" measures
           up as a major.  I'm guessing it would be in the top 20, above
           most humanities majors.  Can anyone find numbers on this?
2004/11/8-9 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:34757 Activity:nil
11/8    MS Search job available in Redmond: http://csua.org/u/9vd
        mfw@microsoft.com if you're interested --dbushong
2004/11/4 [Industry/Jobs] UID:34650 Activity:nil
11/3    Seriously, how is the job market in Canada? What's their
        status on high tech companies? I researched thoroughly and
        the only viable solution for me is through work permit.
        Thanks for any feedback.
        \_ Haven't heard anything good.  The Canadians don't exactly want
           a flood of Americans coming in.
2004/11/3-7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:34620 Activity:nil
11/3    My company's looking to hire. See
        http://www.reactivity.com/about_us/careers.html#positions
               -- dpassage@flophouse.com
        \_ is it in Canada?
2004/10/25-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:34326 Activity:low
10/25   I finally got an citizenship interview recently but it resulted in "a
        decision cannot yet be made about you application".  The interviewer
        said everything was fine except they are still waiting for FBI's
        check, which can take a long time (4-5 months).  Is this normal?
        Is he telling me the truth?
        \_ My wife couldn't get to the interview stage until she was cleared
           from the FBI finger print check.
           from the FBI finger print check.  The FBI check did take a long
           time to perform.
           \_ This was my wife's experience as well. Once she got through
              the interview, everything else was smooth and relatively quick.
              Are you working with a lawyer? Do you have any eyebrow-raisers
              in your arrest records? -- ulysses
              \_ My most serious brush with the law were parking tickets (all
                 paid).  What intrigues me is that he did not check the
                 "Congratulations!  Your application has been recommended for
                 approval," the only other choice on the result form.
                 I would expect this means I have to come back for a 2nd
                 interview though that is not what he told me. -op
                 \_ Sounds about right to me. My wife worked with a lawyer and
                    I think it was the lawyer who suggested working out
                    communication with the FBI beforehand and negotiated that
                    communication.  It took most of a year but YMMV. She walked
                    out of the interview with the "congratulations" box
                    checked.
                    \_ How much does the lawyer charge?  I thought I would
                       be fine without one.  -op
                       \_ It's come to about $2.5K and the lawyer himself said
                          she probably could have gotten by without his help.
                          He is also at the high end. Still, everything started
                          going pretty smoothly with the lawyer on the case.
                          She had also had a bad experience with a cheap
                          lawyer. Note the $2.5K was for the entire process
                          from Res. Alien to Citizen.
        \_ I just had my interview a few weeks ago and I got approved. I'm
           getting sworn in in 3 weeks.
           \_ How long did you wait to get the interview and how long did the
              interview last?  Mine only lasted 20 minutes.  Is this good/bad?
                 -op
              \_ For me the interview itself lasted 20 minutes too. For the
                 first part of your question I'm not sure if you're asking
                 how long I had to wait in the INS waiting area on the day of
                 the interview (5 minutes) or how long the whole application
                 process took (8 months, no lawyer).
              \_ For me, it took a little over a year after the initial
                 application to get the interview.  So I had to resubmit my
                 finger prints, since they were only valid for a year.  My
                 interview basically consisted of him noticing that I was
                 a Cal student, and asking me to write down "It is raining
                 outside."  (no kidding)  I was sworn in shortly after that.
                 \_ This is because your fingerprints change every year?
                    \_ Hell if I knew why.  -pp
        \_ My wife had an interview in June but still is waiting to clear
           Homeland Security background check.
           \_ Which box (Congratulations or "cannot yet") got checked?
2004/10/19-20 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:34235 Activity:low
10/19   This is a doozy, I'm asking about the Federal GS pay scale and
        qualifications.  It says a B.S. is equivalent to a GS-5.  A B.S. plus
        X years of specialized experience is equivalent to what GS level?
        \_ Every year of college is counted as a year of experience. So
           a BS + 2 years is the same as an MS and so on. Without knowing
           X you can't expect any more of an answer.
           \_ I've worked 8 years. I HAVE A PHD!!! I'm elite!!!
2004/10/17-19 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:34179 Activity:nil
10/17   Suppose I want to read technical/scientific writing in a foreign
        language (e.g.  French) but I don't have the time or the need to
        learn how to speak or listen in that language nor do I plan to read
        anything non-technical.  Is there any short-cut learning method or
        resource for this?
        \_ It's really pretty easy.  Get a French-English dictionary (or
           http://wordreference.com/fr find something technical to read,
           and start reading.  When you find conjugated words that aren't in
           the dictionary, run them through Babelfish to find the dictionary
           forms; after a few you'll start being able to guess them.  You'll
           pick up the technical terms quickly since you already know what
           they mean, and soon you'll be able to read pretty fast using the
           dictionary.  It works for math papers, at least.
        \_ You know, it's not such a bad thing to learn a foreign language.
           But if you need to read something in a hurry, you can always
           google translate it.
        \_ Do scientists still use latin as the universal language?
           or maybe try: http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate
        \_ Just have Trinity download the language directly into your
           brain.
2004/9/28-29 [Politics/Domestic, Industry/Jobs] UID:33820 Activity:high
9/29    So last year I asked the motd for advice about writing a "self-
        evaluation" at the end of the year during review time. I was told
        to talk myself up as much as possible w/out going overboard. I took
        this advice and I believe it helped. But then after my review and
        compensation adjustments I was asked a question I wasn't prepared
        for so this year I'll ask the motd again...
        After receiving end-of-the-year compensation adjustments, what
        should one answer when manager asks "Is this what you expected? If
        not, more or less?" I can think of reasons for both yes/no and
        more/less answers. Any thoughts?
        \_ I would not answer such questions unless I were absolutely sure
           they were doing this seriously, for their employees, which is
           not possible, so never mind.  I would never answer that.
        \_ What you expected would seem to be less relevant than what you
           wanted. I would proceed assuming the "want" meaning. To answer
           that you need to figure out what you're worth independent of the
           manager's mind games. Not that I know anything really though.
           Oh and if it really does seem high, I don't really see a point
           in admitting that, what would your reason be? Brownie points?
           \_ i'd be happy to just have a job.  what's a raise?
        \_ my thinking is to use this to your advantage. if you're unhappy
           with the raise, say "it's too low." it's a great opportunity to
           do so, and your manager might expect you to say it so you won't
           be making people uncomfortable. If you're happy with it, provide
           no information. Say something uninformative like "it will do" with
           a poker face. That way, the manager only gets information if it
           benefits you.
        \_ I'm the one who told you to talk yourself up without being a nut
           about it.  In response to all stupid manage head game questions
           like this you should reply like a politician, not an engineer.
           When asked a direct question, most engineers will try to answer
           it truthfully and directly.  BZZZT!  This is the worst thing you
           can do with head game questions.  I was asked the same thing when
           I got my bonus & raise this spring.  The raise was pathetic.  The
           bonus was better but nothing special as bonuses go.  My response
           was along the lines of "Well, everyone would agree that more is
           always better than less, and this was certainly better than nothing.
           how much is left in the budget for further adjustments at this
           point?".  So I answered without answering and then turned it around
           back on them with a question which made it clear I wanted more and
           I know they have more money in the budget for it (they can always
           get more money if they really want/need it), yet I wasn't an
           aggressive greedy overly demanding asshat about it.  Of course they
           didn't actually come up with anything extra but I didn't expect
           them to.  The point was to answer the question in such a way as to
           not come off as a total asshole but making it clear they didn't
           just buy my undying loyalty forever either.  Remember, talks with
           your manager are not engineering problems to be solved.  This is
           them testing you to see how far they can abuse you without making
           you quit or stop working as hard.  Good luck next year and let us
           know how it goes.
        \_ well its the end of our year right now... my review is tomorrow
           so you all will find out soon enough. I'm taking all above advice
           into consideration. thanks. -op
2004/9/27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:33782 Activity:high
9/26    White collar unions, hi-tech still sucks:
        http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/biztech/09/15/techjobslump.ap/index.html
        \_ Too late, we should have formed one when we had the bargaining
           power back in the late 90s. But then all the moron sysadmins
           were convinced that they were doing well because they were
           brilliant, not because of the economy. Now they are all
           taking pay cuts (if they are good) or out of work (if they
           are not) and employers will fire anyone who even dares
           to say the word "union."
           \_ On the other hand, the good engineers should be thankful that
              no union was formed.  Otherwise after the bubble bursted, the
              only ones that would still have jobs are those with high
              seniority, not high ability.
              \_ There is that. We wouldn't be losing so many jobs to
                 outsourcing if there were tech unions though.
2004/9/25-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:33755 Activity:low
9/25    Salary question:  I'm applying for a job as Tech Support Tier 1 and
        2 for a small company (three tech support staff).  What's a reasonable
        salary?
        \_ In the Bay Area? How many years of experience do you have?
           I would say about $70k/yr from what you have said so far.
        \_ my answer: it totally depends.  I work for a non-profit, and make
           around $30k/yr.  I also tend to like my job, the work environment,
           etc.  If the company actually has money, though, I'd guess between
           50-70k with at least a few years experience.
        \_ Not sure where you work, but I'm seeing more $40k-$60k. The $60k
           range is more for crossing over to Sys Admin range. Entry level
           Sys Admin (Windows world) is $60k and then up to $85k-$95k.
2004/9/23 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:33719 Activity:nil
9/23    Why is it that if I post a political troll, I get 3 pages of
        discussion, but I'm lucky if I can get one trollish replay to a
        technical question?
        \_ Nobody cares about computers at the CSUA.
        \_ Because your technical question is stupid.
           \_ That and you don't know the answer.
              \_ Possibly.  But no one on motd answered...
2004/9/22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:33684 Activity:very high
9/22    First of all, I am not bitter or anything.  But Google sucks ass.
        Their recruiter of the Site Reliability group called me and I
        went on pass the phone screening and did an on site interview,
        but only to find out the group is mostly an IT/Operation type
        of group and they are looking for someone strong in UNIX sys admin
        with programming skills.  So they politely told me that there
        wasn't a good fit.  That's all fine since my background is in
        application development.  Then a second recruiter contacted me
        and wanted to talk to me.  I emailed her back and attempted to
        set up a phone interview but only to have her email me back and
        told me to get out of her face since Google's database said
        \_ If she blew you off rudely or unprofessionally, just send a
           calm letter to the director of HR.  Write something like
           "I have been impressed with google's technical expertise ...
           interested in working  there ... but was somewhat surprised
           at the lack of professionalism among the HR/recruiting
           personnel ...". It would be interesting to see the
           "get out of my face" letter.
        I have been rejected before.  WTF?  It's like interviewing
        a sales guy for a marketing position and tells him there isn't
        a good fit and denies him of any future opportunities.  That's
        \_ Similar thing happened to me in 1997 when Netscape people contacted
           me. They were totally unorganized and were very unprofessional.
           I'm glad they fucked up though because AOL sucks and the good/smart
           people who used to work there all left and the only people who
           remain are now the dumb dot-com rejects who have no where else
           to go to.
        \_ That wasn't my experience.  -- ilyas
        fine if the 'one-strike-and-you-are-out-forever' is the company
        mandate, then the second recruiter should have checked their
        f*cking database before contacted me so she doesn't waste my
        time.
        \_ in other words, google is teh suck.
        \_ I interviewed with the Site Reliability group.  Answered all the
           standard stuff perfectly, answered their random stuff 99.9%.
           Taught one of their guys more about his topic than he knew.  The
           response?  I'm not technically qualified to work at Google.
           Whatever.  Fuck it.  6 months after the IPO, all the smart money
           will quit and go find a nice beach and they'll be desperately
           combing their database for both of us.  I'll be happily fitting
           in somewhere else.  I suggest you do the same.  Nice cafeteria
           though.  Don't take it personally.  Our interaction with Google
           is *very* common.  They think their shit doesn't stink and treat
           everyone like crap.  It's an equal opportunity crappiness there.
        \_ Yes. You are not bitter. No. Definitely not bitter. Not a chance.
           \_ I am not, I am just pissed that she wasted my time.
        \_ Maybe the first interviewer said those nice things to you, but
           wrote "He is teh gay.  Do not hire under any circumstances," in
           his report.
           \_ OMGWTFLOL!  GOOG doesn't hire gay people?  LAWSUIT!
        \_ Google is run by a bunch of kids with money. If they have a
           one-strike policy and lack professionalism, then it's time to
           move on to another better-run company.
           \_ hey, how's that short of GOOG going?  -tom
              \_ GOOG at 118.65 up .81.  It just barely hit their original
                 opening price before they dropped it like a pile of stinking
                 shit.  At IPO+6 months+1 day, we'll see how many of their
                 employees dump how many zillions of shares and retire
                 causing a huge brain drain.  At that point expect to see
                 a lot of Google jobs posted online and a less shitty
                 attitude when it comes to hiring there.
                 \_ Since you're a brilliant analyst and I'm just an
                    employee, maybe you can tell me the relative size of
                    these two numbers: total employee holdings vs. average
                    daily volume of google since open. No? Then how about
                    a nice hot cup of shut the fuck up?
                    \_ The volume is likely going to increase when more shares
                       are released. Right now the volume is a high
                       percentage of the float. Insiders still own most of
                       the stock. Do you have a point?
                    \_ I love how you totally and intentionally missed the
                       point.  At 6mo+1day, all the smart people will quit.
                       *You* don't have enough stock or brains to matter but
                       the smart ones are outta there.
                       \_ You don't know anything about my brains or my
                          stock. I however know a lot of things that make
                          me laugh at your dancing monkey rants. --googler
                      \_ The GOOG employee lockup doesn't expire at 6mo.
                         \_ The vast majority of shares can go on the market
                            in February.
                 \_ These grapes, dey are so SOUR!
                    \_ Go ahead and buy GOOG the day before those people can
                       sell.
                 \_ Hmm, it opened at 100, which means it's up almost 20%.
                    Still pissed about that short squeeze, I see.  -tom
                    \_ Ignoring what I said, again.  It is just barely above
                       the price they originally announced before they dropped
                       it, roughly.... (drumroll) 20% before going public.
                       \_ Now you're just making stuff up.  The initial
                          "range" was announced as $100-$120.  The initial
                          price was set by a public auction.  -tom
                    \_ It was me who is going to short it and I still am.
                       Investors are still unable to short it. The higher
                       it gets the better short prospect it will be.
                       \_ These grapes, dey are so SOUR!
                          \_ That's not sour grapes, and shorting GOOG isn't
                             just player-hating.  No company can trade at 150x
                             earnings forever, so unless they produce massive
                             earnings growth, it *will* come down.
                             \_ you appear to be discounting the fact that
                                GOOG *is* producing massive earnings growth.
                                  -tom
                                \_ They're doing well now, but they still need
                                   to increase about 1000% to justify the
                                   current price.
                          \_ No one shorts anything based on sour grapes.  You
                             are a kool aid drinker.
                \_ I find being short harder than being long.  When I am long
                   if the stock goes down a little, I am not worried, but
                   when I am short, and the stock goes up, I get worried and
                   cover.  This happened when I bought pmcs at like $21 and
                   covered at like $24.  Now it's like $10.  So, while I was
                   "right", I still lost money.  I think a similar thing
                   could happen with google.  If you want to short it, you
                   need to have patience and be able to withstand some
                   volatility.
                   \_ Your gf said she found it hard when you were short, too.
                   \_ Unbounded risk will tend to have that effect.
2004/9/7-9 [Industry/Jobs] UID:33399 Activity:kinda low
9/7     Three job openings at Sun Microsystems for SAs and Network admins.
        http://www.sun.com/corp_emp/search.cgi?req=538227
        http://www.sun.com/corp_emp/search.cgi?req=538230
        http://www.sun.com/corp_emp/search.cgi?req=538242
        If you know anyone with kick-ass techie and social skills, who loves
        stress and constant learning and regular fire-drills, this is for them
        --samli
        \_ Fire drills?
        \_ Koan:  How can one be a great sysadmin and at the same time have
           social skills?
           \_ You pursuade your co-workers to do all your work and willingly
              let you take all the credits.
        \_ What exactly is a fire-drill in this context?  Does someone pull
           a cable at 3am on a Saturday to see how fast the team responds?
           \_ Not that bad. Worst would be 8am Monday. Lot of work can be
              done remotely of course, so it's not that bad. Usually it's
              a big-deal-about-nothing so takes you 15 minutes fix and
              make sure it doesn't happen again and then explain to mgmt.
              Patience, diplomacy and communication skills are required.
              Example: User reports: "system crashed, pointer does not
              move". Solution: replace batteries in wireless mouse.
2004/8/20-21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:33047 Activity:moderate
8/20    New SAGE Salary Survey out.
        http://www.sage.org/salsurv
           \_ I put it in /var/tmp/seesal -ausman
        \_ need to register
        \_ Can someone drop the pdf in /tmp?
           \_ I put it in /var/tmp/seesal -ausman
              \_ Permissions are too tight to read it.
                 \_ Ooops. Fixed.
                  \_ bad sysadmin!
2004/8/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Industry/Jobs] UID:32969 Activity:insanely high
8/17    So apropos of the discussion below, do people here think it is
        dishonest to leave a degree *off* of a resume, i.e. a phd?
        \_ Dishonest? Yes.  Does it matter as long as you don't later come
           back and ask for better money/title/position/work/etc based on
           it? No.  I've dropped all the one-off contract jobs from my
           resume.  Am I dishonest?  For the next rewrite I'm going to
           drop anything more than 10 years old.  Is that dishonest?  I
           don't remember the titles I had at 2 places so I made one up
           that fit what I did.  Dishonest?  It's just a resume.  If you
           can't do the job, they'll fire you later.  If you can, then so
           what?  The only place I'd give a full and complete disclosure
           is for a security government or financial job where they'll do
           a very deep background check and find out everything anyway.  As
           some random staff techie at a non-security job?  Fuck it.  Do
           whatever you can to improve your chances without adding things
           that aren't true.
        \_ The day corporations do full disclosure of all their warts
           in their offer letter, you might have a case.
        \_ No.
        \_ Yes, because I will not be happy if I find out the person is
           a liar. Lying to your new boss before you even meet him/her is
           lame. Find a job that fits you and don't waste my time.
           \_ How is replacing phd with MS + 3 years research experience
              a lie? Obviously if someone asks what education I have,
              I'll say, I'm just talking about what goes on the resume.
              Is it dishonest to leave information about one's military
              career off of a resume for a programming job?  where do
              you draw the line?
                \_ Why would you even want to leave out a PhD?
                   \_ Ph.D.'s cost more, and the company might have a bunch
                      of non-productive degree holders who might bias the hirer
                      -!op
                        \_ Why don't you just say you won't demand higher
                           pay? It's not a good idea to start off lying
                           to a potential future employer. Even if it is
                           a lie by omission.
                           \_ My buddy who has a U. of Chicago law degree
                              omitted this on his Best Buy application.  He's
                              been working there for almost three years (not
                              as a corporate guy, but the lowly guys who
                              help customers with advice). -!op
                              \_ 1. He's clearly an idiot. 2. He's not
                                 seriously cultivating a career at Best
                                 Buy, is he? If not, then it does not
                                 matter.
                                 \_ In case you didn't get it, this is one
                                    example where it makes sense not to list
                                    a degree -- when it has no relevance to
                                    the position you are applying for
                                    (assuming the lack of any instruction
                                    to list all educational history).
                                    \_ In case *you* didn't get it, Best
                                       Buy is not exactly pertinent to his
                                       career, so what does it matter if
                                       he pisses his boss off or gets
                                       fired? It's not that it makes sense
                                       to omit it. It's that it won't
                                       matter either way.
                                       \_ Maybe it is his career.  Maybe he
                                          enjoys what he does and intendeds
                                          to continue.
              \_ Listing "+ 3 years research" is questionable if it's what's
                 led to your Ph.D.
           \_ A lot of people would argue that it is not even a lie of
              omission, unless HR specifically asks you to list all educational
              background.  Same goes for previous jobs.
              Obviously we disagree:  you think you're right, I think I'm
              right.
              \_ As someone in a position to hire, I will tell you that
                 I wouldn't like it. You can think you are right all you
                 want.
                 \_ Actually, I disagree with you on whether it's a lie of
                    omission (I say it isn't, and I still think you're wrong
                    about this), but I agree with you on not
                    liking it:  As someone in a position to hire, I wouldn't
                    like applicants omitting a Ph.D. if they got one.
                    To summarize:  It's not dishonest, as I originally
                    said, but your employer probably won't like it.
                    Part Deux:  Be careful how easily you throw around the
                    label "liar".  I wouldn't want to work with someone who
                    thought like that, but that's just an IMO.
                    \_ based on all the other stuff that gets posted to the
                       motd, what are the chances you want to work with
                       anyone on the motd anyway?
                       \_ why not?  this is all bullshit and venting.  do you
                          think any of these people are *really* like this?
                          \_ That the motd is a more insulated way to
                             communicate (i.e. you aren't risking a punch in
                             the face) does not excuse being a complete
                             asshole.  People who are assholes on the motd
                             are either
                             (a) assholes in real life or
                             (b) too cowardly to be assholes in real life like
                                 they are on the motd.
                             Either way, would you want to work with them, or
                             indeed spend any time with them?  -- ilyas
                 \_ yea, whatever, all the ceos are liars anyway.
                    \_ but they have the hiring money and you don't.
                       \_ how do you think they become ceos in the first
                          place?
                          \_ they all lie on their resumes!  of course!
                             none of them went to a pricey mba school after
                             clawing their way up the corporate ladder and
                             destroying the careers of dozens of others on
                             their way to the top!  nononono, they simply
                             wrote some random shit up on their resume that
                             no one would check like "senior vp, ibm sales,
                             world wide, 1987-1996" and bingo!   Profit!
                             \_ Have you read a quarterly report before?
                                Or go to a Q&A session following an
                                earnings announcement?  It's all about
                                emphasizing strengths and hiding
                                weaknesses.  Get real.
                 \_ So if I ask you some questions about your company
                    during the interview, will you tell the complete
                    truth and include all the things you hate about your
                    company?
                    \_ What the hell does this have to do anything? You
                       may as well lie and say you have 10 years designing
                       ASICs when you have 0, right? Why put your real
                       name on the application? Maybe you should omit your
                       prison record, too. This last one gets lots of
                       people fired.
                       \_ What does it have to do with anything?  It tells
                          me that all the talk about honesty is full of
                          shit.
                          \_ Go ahead and omit your time in prison. Hey,
                             the corporation lies, too. Your ass will
                             still be fired for it.
                             \_ well, it hasn't.  in fact, I am doing
                                really well.  thanks for your concern
                                though, corporate dick sucker hypocrite.
                                \_ What were you imprisoned for?
                       \_ You lost me.  What does the candidate lying about
                          his background have to do with the company employees
                          coming clean when asked about the company?
                          \_ Ask the person I was responding to.
2004/8/17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32965 Activity:nil
8/17    Hasselblad is going digital:
        http://www.hasselbladusa.com/news/newsMain.asp?secId=224
        \_ I thought digital backs for medium formats have been available for
           quite a while.
2004/8/17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32960 Activity:very high
8/17    Education is good in hiring, but not too much education:
        http://tinyurl.com/6nqkl
        \_ That was a good article.  Thanks.  I'm also glad to see that
           giving the text book answer to that "What is your biggest
           weakness" question isn't always a good idea.  "I work too
           hard."  "Suuuure ya do."
           \_ Walking out of the interview as soon as someone
              asks you that inane question is a good idea.
        \_ no, the insight is that MOST jobs out there do not require a PhD.
           Why hire a PhD when a BS/MS would suffice? Hire a PhD iff the
           job requires it.
           \_ I work in an environment where PhDs are highly valued, but
              not really required. We have a lot of overeducated people
              running around these days. People doing the same jobs 25
              years ago had MS mostly. Now people are commanding higher
              salaries and it's harder to find 'qualified people' because
              of the insistence that PhD is desirable. There are very few
              jobs where a PhD is required in reality.
              \_ In my experience, PhDs can often be some of the worst
                 engineers.
                 \_ You should not hire PhDs do to engineering work, period.
                    You hire PhDs to do publications, papers, evaluations,
                    architect, grant proposals, networking between CTOs and
                    architects, etc. If your company hired PhDs to do low
                    level engineering grunt work, then your company sucks.
                    Sorry.
                    \_ Hmmm. So someone gets a PhD in engineering and then
                       should avoid engineering work? I disagree. PhDs
                       should be doing research, though. I agree with
                       that. Unless you work at a university (or at a
                       place like Xerox PARC) you probably don't need a
                       PhD, even though you might be doing things like
                       grant proposals, evaluations, and such. I work with
                       a lot of people with PhDs in engineering and they
                       qucikly get bored with work of any kind - even
                       "networking between CTOs and architects". They want
                       to do research and there are not enough jobs in
                       research.
                    \_ I am fairly sure google hires PhDs for coding.
                       What about MechEng PhDs?  Systems PhDs?  EE PhDs?
                       You are an idiot.
                    \_ Agreed, most PhDs can't code, but they still make more
                       money than you. Such is life...
2004/8/13-15 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Jobs] UID:32895 Activity:very high
8/13    In reference to something from below, how many male sodans actually
        enjoy blowjobs?  I've only ever had one my entire life I really found
        satisfying, out of hundreds of attempts.  Its a pale shadow compared to
        intercourse.  Is it just that no girl knows how to give them, or am I
        just some kind of freak?
        \_ First, tell your grandmother to take her teeth out.
        \_ What's the difference between the wife, the dog, the kids and
           a blowjob?  A:  You can't beat a blowjob.
        \_ Two women I've dated gave good blowjobs.  Others didn't.  It is
           indeed a skill, but some guys don't get off on it at all.
           \_ Practice makes perfect.
           \_ Maybe I just don't get off on it at all.  --op
              \_ Could be. Such is life.
        \_ I enjoy them. Only one women I ever dated gave exceptional
           blow jobs, but I enjoyed all of them.
        \_ I enjoy blowjobs.  My SO says I give excellent ones.  -- male sodan
           \_ that's sick, get off the motd you fuck!
              \_ Dear God!  There are sodomites at the university?!!
                 \_ This would work better if you were at Bob Jones ...
                \_ Why do you hate America?
                   \_ "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are
                      we.  They never stop thinking about new ways to harm
                      our country and our people, and neither do we"
        \_ I think you have a defective gene.
        \_ Have your girl practice on me and I'll tell you whether it's her
           technique or just you.
           \_ To give a fair and balanced assesment, shouldn't you perform
              felatio on the op first?
              \_ that's sick, get off the motd you fuck!
        \_ Black girls on San Pablo give excellent BBBJs
        \_ Black girls on San Pablo give excellent BBBJs -jblack
        \_ Black girls on San Pablo give excellent BBBJs -donkeyboy
           \_ Hey!  Stop posting as me!   -The _Real_ Donkeyboy
           \_ Actually...that's true.
        \_ It's a skill thing like many things in life.  I thought sex was
           always a good thing until the first time I was with a girl who
           rated about -3 on a 1 to 10 skill scale.  Willing, able, no
           talent, bad sex.  Life has its disappointments.  Same deal with BJs.
           \_ Where can one find good technical advice?
           \_ This is kind of an aside, but I dated a young woman with very
              little experience once and she kept biting down on me. So we
              went to Good Vibes and bought a dildo and I showed her what
              I like.
2004/8/5-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:32725 Activity:nil 50%like:36020
8/5     Another Mountain View job.  Senior C++ developer.
        /csua/pub/jobs/coral8
     _________________________________________________________________
2004/8/4-5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32672 Activity:high
8/3     Blogger/Google is hiring a UI engineer.  Must already have a blog.
        Expert HTML/CSS/JavaScript.  User-centered design.  A lot of web
        application development experience.  Mt View.  -- misha.
        \_ Why would anyone want to join google at this point?  You'll get
           low pay, no options or options with a value set so high they'll
           be below water 2 days after the IPO, and you'll work like a dog.
           I learned a long time ago having some 'cool' job on your resume
           isn't worth the bullshit.  No one cares 6 months later.
           \_ yes I can't think of anything worse than working
              at google.
           \_ I know. I'd rather be unemployed and homeless.
           \_ Working with smart people is overrated anyway.
           \_ It has its moments.  -- misha.
        \_ How many people does google interview for each position before
           hiring someone, on average?
           \_ 1E100
              \_ If I don't find that answer amusing, does that mean I shouldn't
                 apply?
                 \_ Are you smrt?  Will you move to Mountain View?
                    \_ yes.  no.
2004/8/2-3 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:32638 Activity:high
8/2     What are the best job sites?  Have you found a job using those
        sites?
        \_ I'm in civil and monster worked fine, though it took some patience.
           I had to wait about four months for something good, ducking
           crap from headhunters most of that time. That time waited has
           more to do with the realities of the civil job market than with
           monster. -- ulysses
        \_ sites work well for entry level jobs. Nowadays you really need
           connections and referals.
           \_ *you* might.  others do fine going in cold.
        \_ I found my current job three years ago by posting a resume on
           http://dice.com.  The HR at my company saw it and gave me a call for an
           interview.  But at the same time I got calls from ten job firms or
           so.  That's the downside.
           \_ I hated dice for precisely that reason: lots of responses from
              annoying headhunters, none from real companies.
              \_ So what?  Ask them for the name of the hiring company and
                 no you're not coming in or sending in an updated resume
                 without that information, click.
                 \_ You don't understand.  They're not representing a
                    specific company.  They have a zillion no-name,
                    uninteresting companies they're trying to fit you for.
        \_ craigslist
           \_ ditto. Got my current job thru CL.
2004/7/30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32592 Activity:high
7/30    What's a good site to search and price-compare used and perhaps out-of-
        print technical/professional but Non-CS books.
        \_ They're out-of-print and you still want to compare prices?  Just buy
           it as soon as you see one.
           \_ Not everybody's dad is a banker.
        \_ http://www.bookfinder.com
2004/7/23-24 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32456 Activity:high
7/23    I really like Rammstein, but I'd like to find some similar bands.  The
        problem is when a website says "You may also like..." it always
        reccomends bands that are all screaming without the songwriting skills
        of Rammstein.  Can someone reccomend an industrial band with a good
        songwriter or some compositional skills?
        \_ Skyforger
        \_ http://www.sabbatum.com
           \_ It says 403 Forbidden
              Apparently I'm not worthy...
        \_ Laibach, Old Lady Drivers, dISEMBOWELMENT
2004/7/20-21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32368 Activity:nil
7/20    Technical Consultant position available at Berkeley start-up. See
        /csua/pub/jobs/Recommind/TechnicalConsultant.txt
2004/7/20-21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32367 Activity:insanely high 66%like:12088 66%like:30258 50%like:30016
17/20   motd poll: how much did you get for your last raise?
        \_ http://csua.com/Industry/Jobs
        \_ got a 6% raise just last week. Before that, my last raise was in
           early 2001 and that was 8%.
        \_ 10% cost of living increase in grad student stipend.  These happen
           in random years in response to competition from other universities.
        \_ buahahahah...: .
        \_ about 7% (including "bonus")
        \_ inflation adjustment of 3% on average.  I got a 8% raise only
           because couple guys in my project left and I was implying I was
           going to leave if I was not well compensated.
        \_ None (consultant) but manaegd to keep my rates constant, and
           noticed that nitpicking about $$$ by clients has decreased
           markedly over the past few months.  -John
        \_ 10% -- market rate adjustment and because I aksed.
        \_ Last "raise" (pay increase w/o a promotion) was 3 yrs ago.
           I think it was about 7%. I was promoted one grade level 2
           yrs ago and my pay went up about 15%. I haven't had a raise
           since then (I've survived 3 rounds of lay-offs, so I'm just
           glad to have a job). I'm in line for a promotion this year.
           If it happens my pay should go up 10% or so (not sure what
           "engineers" get paid at this firm, currently I'm just a
           "member of technical staff").
        \_ 3.4% in December 2003, 3.5% in Feb 2003.
        \_ 1.9 in 2/03, 2.7 in 2/04.  Didn't ask, no promotion.
        \_ 2% in 2/04, 0.5% in 2/03
        \_ Got a 3.5% COLA raise, but it got sucked up by higher benefit costs.
        \_ Got a 4% raise at my last yearly evaluation, which was in October.
        \_ So with the above responses the economy seems to be getting better?
           \_ The economy is getting better, but it's still very weak. It
              will most likeley not go back to the way it was in the
              forseeable future. This has been the worst recession in
              about 20 years.
                \_ WSJ had an article yesterday.  It says that the
                   recovery has happened for well-off americans but
                   low income and middle class americans are still
                   very much struggling.  for me, it seems that
                   those with money is going to do well in this
                   age of outsourcing and globalization, whereas
                   those with skills that can be oursourced are
                   going to continue to struggle.
                   \_ Rich get richer - same old story.  Only difference now
                      is that no one speaks for anyone but the rich.
                      \_ That is not new either. People who had money
                         during The Depression became very wealthy. I am
                         not sure if anyone has ever spoken for the poor
                         unless you mean activists like MLK.
                         \_ The progressives of the late 19th/early 20th
                            century are a good example...and both Roosevelts,
                            to some extent - Teddy more than Franklin, perhaps.
                            Current whiny left types are definitely not
                            included.  MLK would be, for sure.  There was
                            also more voices for the worker in the media in
                            the days before consolidation...
                            \_ even the Communist Party in China no longer
                               speaks for the poor.  funny, huh?
                     \_ Unions still speak for the working man. Who
                        isn't poor anymore, thanks to their efforts, but
                        doesn't really qualify as rich, either.
                  \_ here's the article if you have access to WSJ online.
                        http://tinyurl.com/6d6y6
                     incidentally, for those who haven't considered it,
                     the wsj has surpassed economist as my favourite rag.
                     it's worth considering even if you are not a pig
                     for finance and business news.  I agree with the
                     critism that the opinion pages are totally one
                     sided, but I find the rest of it rather balanced.
                     and its viewpoints are often quite refreshing
                     and insightful compared to more general news rags.
                     \_ Could you share the WSJ login?
                        \_ it's not free, so I can't.
                     \_ The WSJ has never been anything but a very vocal
                        advocate for unregulated markets and I really
                        doubt that anything has changed on that regard.
                        Do they discuss the pros and cons of socialized
                        medicine yet? Having said that, they are still
                        the best source for business news in America.
                        But I am boycotting them until after the election
                        since they have turned their opinion page into
                        a partisan hackfest. -long time WSJ reader
        \_ http://csua.com/Industry/Jobs
           \_ put your shit at the bottom like the rest of us
2004/7/11-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32221 Activity:low
7/11    Zone Labs is looking to hire approx. 20 developers.
        See /csua/pub/jobs/ZoneLabs for details
        (Note also interested in Seniors looking to work part time,
        with possible full time employment after graduating or dropping
        out.  --sky
        \_ Are you guys going to fix the crap that is version 5.x?  Are you
           going to fix the "kills idle ssh connections" 'option' in 5.x
           which has no option to disable this 'feature'?  I rebuilt my home
           network so that I don't have to use zone alarm anymore.  If someone
           won't use the free version, how many more won't pay for it?  4.x
           was so much better.
           \_ I couldn't agree with you more.  I fought long and hard to
              try and convince management/executives to hold the release
              but ultimately lost.  The kills idle ssh connections
              bug has been fixed along with many other egregious bugs
              that should have prevented 5.0 from releasing in the first
              place.  This update will be released around ~7/15.
              Please email me (sking@zonelabs.com) if you'd like an advance
              copy of the update, though from the sound of it i guess not.
              --sky
              \_ version 5 doesn't work with NetScreen VPN, will the new
                 release fix that?
                 \_ Hrm I see no mention of NetScreen in our bug database,
                    but i wouldn't be suprised.  Can you send me an email
                    at sking@zonelabs.com and I'll see if I can figure
                    out the problem.  --sky
\_ Yes!! Finally!! Thank you!!
2004/7/8-9 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32188 Activity:high
7/8     Does your internship pay for health insurance? Mine doesn't  -intel
        \_ be glad your internship actaully pays!
        \_ None of mine ever did.  SHIP.
        \_ When I interned at Apple they provided health care. --twohey
2004/6/22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30954 Activity:nil
6/22    How's the job market looking these days?  software engineers.
        \_ The job market has been white hot since January of this year for
           anyone who a) already has a job and b) has some skills.  My last
           unemployed friend finally got a job last week after 2 years of
           fucking around not really looking.
2004/6/18 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:30899 Activity:nil
6/18    Reality show application:
        http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/application2.shtml
2004/6/16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30835 Activity:kinda low
6/16    Anyone here worked in a business consulting company like McKinsey,
        Accenture, or the like?  Please share your experience.  Thanks.
        \_ My girlfriend works for BCG, which I think is one of the better
           ones.  They pay a lot of money to young people straight out of
           college (so they don't really have any work experience to measure
           themselves against), put them in a pool of other young over-
           achievers, and tell them they're the best.  That's the good part--
           the bad thing is that they start thinking it normal to work 12 hour
           days, that there are no real jobs outside of the consulting outfit,
           and that they are some sort of loser if they get out of the "up
           or out" system.  Only the really strong ones manage to avoid a
           total burnout.  To be fair, a lot of the people I know at her
           outfit are of above average intelligence, except when it comes to
           saying "no" to being shat upon at work by managers and customers.
           I also think that you have to be a singular kind of defective to
           survive for long enough to get into senior management, so that
           breeds some pretty evil culture.  All the people I know who "left"
           Accenture, PWC & co. were inevitably totally burned out and totally
           dissatisfied at having wasted a few years of their lives.  -John
2004/5/27-28 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30454 Activity:very high
5/27    For that $70k coder who was going to ask for a raise.  Did you do it?
        how did it go?
        \_ got outsourced!
          \_LOL, you sob!
        \_ did it, but review is delayed until end of 4th quarter.
          put my resume out and got quite a few responses so far
          sticking at job until i find something, they will counter
          offer only when I will leave, not giving notice because
          they fire tons of people without notice.
          \_ yep look around, lots of oppertunities out there now.  I also went
          and talked to my VP of Eng, it is delayed until mid next month.  I
          think I'll put my resume out as well because if he's sincere, he
          should at least give me a good faith offer.
          \_ You should give notice but not until you find a new job.  Why
             would you let them know you were looking before you actually got
             a new job?  My God, are Cal people really this unprepared for
             life in the real world?  Cal needs a class on how to get by in
             the real world.  Notice means, "I already have a new job, I'm not
             interested in your counter offer, I hate your guts but I'm giving
             you two worthless weeks of slacking and short hours so you can't
             ruin my good name by saying I walked out with no notice".
             \_ hahah, I like that. better yet, just give a day notice because
                I ain't coming back. when I got laid off, I didn't get two
                weeks of pay. it sucks to be the last one to be laid off.
                people got laid off during the first round got six month of
                paid. Even the guy that was fired also got some severance. in
                the real world, you'll just know how to whine and complain to
                the the money. :)
                \_ No matter how your job sucks, exercise noblesse oblige and
                                                          \-you have an odd
                                                            notion of noblesse
                                                            oblige --psb, exer-
                                                            cising dictionary
                                                            oblige
                   don't burn bridges.  Word gets around, and the world is
                   small--and even if 9/10 of your colleagues are shit, you
                   may find yourself working with the tenth someday, and want
                   to leave him with a good impression.  Just give notice,
                   smile, say thank you, and leave.  -John
             \_ Maybe he actually wanted to stay at the current job as long as
                his pay is raised.  So he threatened to leave by giving the
                notice that he's looking for a job elsewhere.
                \_ Good managers know that once someone gives notice they're
                   gone.  A raise granted under those conditions won't keep
                   the employee around for more than 6 months.  If he wants a
                   raise he should ask for a raise and then when he doesn't
                   get one they have no reason to waste his time with a fake
                   counter.  There's also the risk that they'll give him the
                   raise he wants and then replace his ass 3 weeks later since
                   they know he's going to quit in 6 months anyway *and* that
                   other job is now gone so he's fucked.  Get new job, quit
                   old job, move on like a professional, forget about them.
             \_ I didnt tell them I am looking. i told them I'll wait
                for the review to come. In the meantime I will look for
                a job and when I do find one, leave without 2 weeks
                notice.
                \_ Give the 2 weeks.  I just quit the worst job I ever had but
                   I gave the 2 weeks.  I slacked off, got paid for it, and
                   they can't tell their manager buddies in other companies
                   that I walked without notice.  It's a very small industry.
                   Do yourself a favor.  No matter how much you hate them,
                   give the two weeks.  Slack off, come in late, leave early,
                   take long lunches, accomplish nothing, but get those two
                   weeks officially on the books.
                   \_ will do, going fishing during lunch
                      \_ As long as you were officially there on the books and
                         didn't walk out in a no-notice huff, fishing, fucking,
                         or anything else during your 3 hour lunch is the way
                         to go.
                   \_ If the alternative is doing violence to your boss,
                      walk out in a huff. Better to be known as someone
                      who quits without giving notice that someone who
                      assaults his supervisors.
                      \_ How about, returning to your desk calmly, writing
                         a two-weeks-notice letter, and giving that to him
                         the next day?
                         \_ That would be too mature a response for some motd
                            people.  ;-)  I agree with you in concept but I
                            still think there's no reason to walk in a huff.
                            If things are *that* bad you have a lawsuit.
                            \_ Yeah, but you *really* don't want to get
                               a reputation as a guy who sues his employer.
                               \_ Nope, take the two weeks and walk.
2004/5/25-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30414 Activity:very high
5/25    Let's say I have a day job which brings in $Y/hour.  I have
        been asked to do consulting for another company on the side.
        What should I charge?  $(1.5*Y)? $(2*Y)?  Any suggestions on
        places to look for finding how to set this rate?  Thanks.
        \_ ((ln e) * Y) / i)
        \_ supply & demand.  You can't charge more than what the
           other company willing to pay.
           \_ Do you work at Microsoft Technical Support?  That was a
              perfect completely true but totally worthless answer!
              \_ just to answer a stupid question.   You can charge 2x or 10x
                 if you want to.  It all matters to what the company willing
                 to pay for your work.  If the company don't think it can find
                 someone reliable or capable, heck, they're willing to pay
                 2x, 3x or 5x.  The key is to do your market research and
                 find out what you're worth.  To say that you're worth 1.5x
                 is so bogus.
        \_ The full-benefits cost of an employee, including overhead, is about
           2x salary.  If you're not using their facilities, you could probably
           argue 2x, but if you're at the office and using their equipment
           (which means you're not a contractor in the strictest sense of the
           word), then 1.5x is more appropriate, since you're only saving them
           benefits, not overhead.
        \_ On-the-side jobs are a lot of work.  How much is your spare time
           worth to you?  If it's not enough money, you won't be motivated to
           finish it.
        \_ I did an on the sire job for a few weeks at 1x.  It was a huge pain
        \_ I did an on the site job for a few weeks at 1x.  It was a huge pain
           in the ass and totally not worth it so I dropped it.  At 2x it might
           have almost been worth it.  At 4x I would've been happy.  Remember
           that people think you're worth what they're paying you.  That's not
           as trite as it seems.  I mean it literally.  Whatever you do, you
           should not charge under $100/hr for real IT work.  If you're just
           installing windows patches in some office, then less is ok.  Nothing
           with skills for less than $100.  Remember, it costs them a shitload
           more to hire fulltime to do it and they don't have to pay your
           benefits, etc.  Your current salary is only an amusing tidbit and
           shouldn't have much effect on what you charge since it's likely
           you're underpaid right now.  When did you get a raise?  How much
           would someone with your skills make today in the open market?
           Probably a lot more than you think.  The CSUA salaries I've seen
           posted over the years are always pathetically low.
2004/5/17-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30264 Activity:high
5/17    what pays more: sys admin or software developer?
        \_ Depends on your oral skills.
                \_ How well you blow your boss?
        \_ SA is less likely to get shipped over seas, however you get even
           less respect than devs, there are fewer jobs, the jobs require
           serious skills, the work is often repetitive and dull and the
           tech side in most companies is run by former software guys who
           don't know shit about SA, don't want to know, and treat that
           stuff like the plague.  SA tends to pay more.
2004/5/17-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30253 Activity:high
5/17    70k per year guys (who took lower pay and dont get raises)
        i am in similar situation, but am going to boss and telling
        him that I at least need a raise to beat inflation or else
        I am being paid less that I was last year
        \_ I'd also suggest adding other facets to your argument, so that
           you have a stronger position.  What contributions have you made,
           or skills do you have that would also merit the extra money?  Even
           if your boss does agree that you should be given a raise based
           on "inflation" how is he going to argue on your behalf to
           -his- boss (or worse) Human Resources?  --chris
        \_ I think this is on purpose. Salaries are being held in line so
           that you are taking a pay cut (over time), and ppl being hired
           are paid less (starting sal) than the .com era.
           are paid less (starting sal) than the .com era. It's better than
           having your position eliminated and/or sent overseas. Might also
           want to think about changing careers, if you are not on the mgmt
           track.
        \_ You're better off sending out your resume and taking the jump to
           $95 to $110k.  The economy is up, people are hiring, salaries are
           going up.  If you have any tech skills and can negotiate worth a
           damn and are willing to walk away from lesser offers you're good
           for the $100k range easy.  The rest of you 70k bastards should go
           get real jobs and stop fucking up the pay scales for the rest of
           us.
           \_ a $70K job which doesn't suck is way better than a $100K
              job which does.
              \_ They're mostly bitching about 70k jobs that *do* suck and
                 won't do anything about it but whine on the motd.
2004/5/14-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30228 Activity:very high
5/13    Are employers in the Bay Area paying so incredibly low these days? I
        still have an inflated dot-com era salary from 2000 and I'm realistic
        about taking a 20%-25% cut if I were to switch jobs. But even then, it
        seems that when I give a potential employer my adjusted minimum, I
        never hear back. Are places really hiring people with >5 years exp
        for $70k?
        \_ I recently took more than a 1/3rd salary hit to leave my old place.
           I expect/hope that my new lower income is temporary and in time I
           shall return to near what my old salary was.  The plus side is that
           I now work with really great people, the company is making money
           and the company long term focus is to make the company attractive
           to big buyers so maybe our options will have value some day.  It's
           a risk but I'm happy in the meantime and making enough money.  I
           miss the mega salary but I had to learn the hard way that money
           really isn't everything.  A certain income level is required to pay
           the bills and have savings.  After that?  Be happy.  OTOH those of
           you who have 5+ years in anything technical and hate your jobs and
           make less than $100k need to go job hunting.  There's no point in
           waiting for some magical date to start looking.  You can find the
           great job at any time.  Start now.  I started at the very beginning
           of the recent upturn.  Do not expect things to return to 1998
           levels ever again in your lifetime.  Place offering $70k for > 5yrs
           who aren't giving you some other reason to signup are fucked.  Just
           move on.  You should ask them their range before giving up yours.
        \_ economy is picking up, be patient.  Many places is starting to hire.
           yeah, I took a pay cut, at exactly $70k now.
           \_ Ditto.
           \_ wow, i am 70k too, 7 yrs out of school.
           \_ What do you guys do?
        \_ Where should I be after 18 months out of college, EECS?  I like my
           job, just curious.
           \_ Ditto.
           \_ Start at $58K, you should now be at $63K?
           \_ Where should I be after 72 months out of college, EECS?
              -geordan
        \_ I got a 20% raise in 2001 when I switched job after the previous
           company went Chapter 7.  After that, 2% raise last year and 3% raise
           this year at the same job.
           \_ yeah.. seems that changing jobs is the fastest way to boost
              your salary, especially if you're being underpaid
        \_ Are the figures on http://salary.com still accurate?  Or were they based
           on salaries from 2000?
        \_ I don't why someone keeps censoring this (I am using motdedit)
           but $70K is very underpaid for the Bay Area. In the LA area
           *civil* engineers who work for the *government* are getting
           $100K+ after 10 years. You guys at 7 years out should be near
           or over $100K. If you love your job that's fine, but if not LEAVE!
           \_ I have a MS, and I'm 7 years out of school. I make >$110k, but
              was just offered a job for $80k. I hate my current dot-com job,
              but I don't think I hate it by >$30k. -op
              \_ Have you considered saying to them something along the
                 lines of "I'd really like to take the job, but I'm afraid
                 I couldn't handle the pay cut."  They might up their
                 offer.  If they don't, no loss.
           \_ Civil engineers are paid more than programmers these days.
           \_ Which branch of government? Certainly not federal or state.
              \_ County, but federal pays pretty well too.
                 \_ I find this suspect. Do you have a URL? Government
                    salaries are supposed to be public knowledge.
                    \_ Well, why should I care if you find it suspect? I
                       know two civil engineers. However, here's one job:
                       http://www.lacsd.org/personnel/ElectricalEngineerNew.htm
                       You might start at $6-7K but by 10 years+ you will
                       exceed the stated $8K mark.
                       \_ Thanks.
        \_ SAGE has the best report for syadmin salaries out there.
           For SF Bay Area, they report $86k median for 5-9 yrs
           experience. $98k for 10-12 yrs. Are you a programmer or a
           sysadmin?
           experience. $98k for 10-14 yrs. Are you a programmer or a
           sysadmin? BTW, I get paid $90k in salary and a stock grant
           worth $23k at current valuation for 10 yrs experience.
           \_ Does it have figures for programmers as well?
              \_ nope. I don't know of a similar study for programmers.
                 From http://salary.com and anecdotally, I would guess that programmers
                 used to get paid 10-20% more, now probably about the same. I
                 have no idea if this is correct though.
           \_ and are you a programmer or a sysadmin?
              \_ shouldn't matter.  the pay ranges are almost exactly the same.
                 \_ This is not going to remain true over time.
                    \_ I think it will, but what's your theory?
                       \- i think it'll fluctuate in both directions. currently
                          the hip thing to do is outsource programmers. the
                          effects of outsourcing might actually be to incraease
                          average salaries, bc the low end jobs won't be here.
              \_ sysadmin
        \_ That's a bit low.  Economy has picked up -- companies _are_
           hiring.  Certainly, it depends on your skills and attitude...but
           $70K is on the low side now.  fyi.  --chris
2004/5/14-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30223 Activity:high
5/13    Has anyone ever had 1/3 of their dev group leave within the
        span of a week? How did you deal with the short term effects?
        Three guys in my group gave notice within the span of a couple
        of days and now I'm stuck trying to figure out who will cover
        for them and its driving me nuts since we are already under
        staffed as it is.
        \_ the easiest way to deal with the short-term effects is to
           make it 4 guys giving notice.
           \_ I'm going back to school in the fall (my manager has
              known about this for a year, so its not going to be a
              surprise to anyone). I want to work till august or so
              to save up more cash. I also want to retain a good
              relationship with my mgr in case I need a reference
              (or a job) in the future.
                \_ what school? if you're going to academia, references from
                   the industry will mean very very very little. my advisor
                   says he never reads recommendations from industry unless
                   they're from famous research labs. professors tend to
                   look down on industry experience because they're most
                   likely not "interesting"             -grad student
                   \_ That professors tend to look down on industry experience
                      or even academic experience outside of their narrow little
                      field is a simple empirical fact.  However, I think
                      this speaks more to the personality defects of
                      academics than to the value or interest of anthing.
                      -cynical grad student
        \_ I was on a project that had 3/4rs of the team leave one year into
           a two year release cycle.  Unless you managers are making it clear
           they understand they are going to need to push deadlines way back
           in order to not destroy everyone who stuck around my advice is
           don't deal with the short term effects, just coast.  They won't
           fire you or even think less of you, they are too busy running around
           panicing to even notice.  And it just isn't worth it to try to
           do the work of four people, which is the other option.
        \_ You're not the manager?  Don't worry about it.  Do what you're
           assigned to do by your manager.  If you were a manager then it
           would be your problem.  Why are you even thinking about this much
           less worried by it since you're leaving soon anyway?
        \_ Tell them you can recruit your brother and/or sisters who will
           work for low wages, and you can vouch for them 'cause they're
           family.  You can also put in four extra hours on weekdays and
           Saturday, and on Sunday, can put in a half-day.  You had
           no idea the other guys were leaving, the traitors.
            \_ this is really good. -phuqm
2004/5/12-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30190 Activity:nil 57%like:30184
5/12    Telespree is hiring a mobile application developer.  The posting is
        in /csua/pub/jobs/Telespree_junior_mobile_appdev.  --njh
2004/5/12-13 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:30184 Activity:nil 57%like:30190
5/12    Snapfish is hiring a mobile architect. See the posting in
        /csua/pub/jobs/Snapfish.mobile.architect for more details.
        -- ajani
2004/4/30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13490 Activity:nil
4/29    My recruiter is looking for some entry to intermediate level
        Java developers.  Please see the description at:
                /csua/pub/jobs/intermediate-java-developer
        \_ if nothing else should, at least this should get restored.
        \_ Someone is being nice enough to post a job listing.  If you don't
           like recruiters, fine don't apply for the job.  Just don't try to
           deprive other people of the job opportunity.
        \_ Is there a particular reason you're hiding the name of your
           company?  It may explain why this posting keeps being removed.
           \_ I assume there's the poster, his recruiter, and the company
              the recruiter is recruiting for.  The op may likely not even
              know the name of the company.
              \_ I'm guessing the company might be http://geac.com -!op
                 \_ Not a clue.  I'm the one doing the restores and not the
                    OP.  I just think there might be people looking for
                    jobs.  Call it public service on my part, and I assume
                    the OP's.
           \_ There is no company.  It's a recruiter.  The guy posting gets
              a referral cut.  Evil.
              \_ how do you know?
                 \_ Why would he post a recruiter add on the motd?
                    \_ Who cares?  Even if he does get a cut, that's one more
                       job going to a csua'er.  Better that than no cut, but
                       the job goes to somebody else.  NEPOTISM!
                    \_ He's doing other motd readers a favor?  I've often
                       pointed friends at recruiters with just a "he's looking
                       for X" and no additional information.
                 \_ Because the motd censor is much wiser than the rest of us.
              \_ Yeah, right, like resumes and job applicants are such hot
                 commodities right now.
                 \_ I have recruiters contacting me a couple of times a
                    week for unsolicited job offers these days.
2004/4/17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13243 Activity:nil
4/16    Do programmers at startups normally get raises every year (assuming
        they are doing a good job etc)? Or is there some kind of
        understanding that people don't get raises until the company hits
        certain technical or financial milestones?
        \_ maybe it depends on how well you're being paid in the first place.
           if they're underpaying you and not giving you a raise, they'll
           find it hard to retain even semi-competent people.
2004/4/15-16 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:13211 Activity:nil
4/15    I finally understand what a CRM is and what it is used for.
        it's the database of contacts, customers, customers' employees,
        business leads, interests, themes, "opportunities" and a calendar
        to remind you the flow of following it all up.  The front end is part
        of a CRM.                       -brain
        \_ throw in deliverables, impressions to cover marketing
        \_ http://csua.com/?entry=12519
                \_ right, that was the post I was referring to.
                   check out the mouseover on kchang's page!  crazy!  -brain
        \_ It should be noted that most CRM project fail. (you don't earn
           your money back on the investment for it)
           \_ Yeah.  Most of the CRM software that people bandy about
              (RazorsEdge, etc), work out to be upwards of $150k.  When
              we looked into it at the BAM/PFA, it was around $150k for the
              package and customization.  Hardware to run it and ongoing
              support was a lot of money on top of that.
              There are other systems out there, though, with not quite all
              the functionality but much more reasonable price.  -sax
                \_ the installation I was working with cost $30k, with $50k
                   of labor and $200k of contracting that went into building
                   custom modules into it.  The data mining that resulted
                   from it landed a $4.8 M deal.  Sounds like a good
                   investment to me!
              \_ I've struggled through goldmine for the last 2 years, and
                 hate the pile of shit.  90% of user problems are goldmine
                 crashing, "losing" mail, and just otherwise being a pile
                 of shit.  They still use a fucking broken bde library.
                 The DB schema has grown without a redesign for years, and
                 feels like it.  I've been wanting to make my own suite out
                 of open source stuff to replace the crap. --scotsman
                 \_ We actually went with a Filemaker solution.  It was
                    developed by people who left Bluebaud.  It is FM, but
                    it has a pretty decent feature set... kind of focused
                    on membership and donation campaign tracking.  For
                    under $15k, it does everything we need and more -sax
           \_ i agree, but it depends on which company you get it from.
              ROI from enterprise crm companies generates more cash flow.
              The mid-market crm products out there aren't that good and
              is why most fail.  If you can come up with a cheap mid-market
              crm product, then definitly make one.
        \_ LT. TOEJAM: I just got another blast on the CRM-114, and the
           damned thing decodes: Wing Attack, Plan-R.
           MAJOR KONG: Wing attack, Plan-R?
           \_ Major Kong: Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a
              rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a
              set of earphones. You sure you got today's codes?
                \_ http://crm114.sourceforge.net  -John
2004/4/14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:29928 Activity:nil
4/14    Let's set some rules on what gets to stay and what gets deleted.
        I say each thread gets to stay for 8 hours after it stops
        becoming active (no new information added).  Hours at night
        12 midnight - 8 a.m doesn't count as time passed.  Informational
        threads like job openings get to stay longer.
        \_ That relies on people playing nice.  There's a hierarchy of
           lamers who don't:  first, the motd censors.  Lame.
           Lamer:  people who retaliate against everyone else for the
           actions of the ceensors.  Very lame, and akin to terrorism.
        \_ Perhaps 8hrs is a little long.  The motd can get pretty big
           pretty quickly.  Aside from that, I would think guidelines
           would be a good idea.
2004/4/13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13172 Activity:high
4/13    Who on this csua board are still in the software industry? Doing
        programming more specifically.
        $40k - $60k:
        $60k - $80k:...
        \_ great.  usually, when surveys come up, there is usually
           bragging: I make > $120k with only one year experience!
           \_ Now who's bragging, braggart?
              \_ I make over $120k with over 10 years experience.  Is that
                 bragging or useful information for others?
              \_ I'm not bragging.  I'm just showing an example of someone
                 who brags and the type of statements they make.
              \_ I'm not bragging.  I'm just citing an example of a person
                 who brags.
        $80k - $100k:..
        $100k+: .
        $666k: .
        \_ wow.  i did not realize salaries have come down that much.
           \_ the people making real money are too busy to fuck around on the
              motd.  also Cal grads tend to underprice themselves in the
              market.  $60k-$80k is ridiculous for anyone has more than 1 year.
           \_ Berkeley grads make $20k more than the prevailing wage. I read
              it on the motd.
        \_ Is there an industry wide salary survey for programmers, similar
           to the SAGE salary survey for sysadmins?
           \_ http://Dice.com has something similar. http://www.salary.com as well. Don't
              know how accurate the latter is.
2004/4/7-9 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13075 Activity:moderate
4/7     Anyone hiring interns this summer? A former student of mine goes to CMU
        and is looking for a summer internship. willing to do either coding
        (C/C++, can do java) or sysadmin (solaris/linux). He's smart but only
         a freshman.

I'm George Bush, and I approved this message.
        \_ you realize that employers prefer a dumb/experienced guy over a
           smart/inexperienced guy right?
           \_ actually, that's the lie we feed you to soften the blow
              when we really think you're dumb and inexperienced.
2004/4/5-7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13022 Activity:nil
4/5     Graphic Design Engineer needed, degree or 1-2 years experience,
        for application software company.  Contact wck@@genp.com (recruiter).
        \_ where is the position located?
        \_ What is a Graphic Design Engineer?  You mean someone to design
           the user interface?
2004/3/31-4/3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12950 Activity:nil
3/31    Interested in working at a start-up company in SF as a Field
        Application Engineer or a Windows Application Software Engineer?
        Check /csua/pub/jobs/Mediabolic         -toshi
        \_ Out of curiosity, who makes more money?
           \_ The FAE will make much more than the $15k the Indian
              subcontractor will want for the software engineering job.
2004/3/17-22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12728 Activity:nil
3/17    Over 30 open jobs at Transmeta, mostly in the Senior Circuit Designer
        and Layout type of jobs, but also some test engineering and a couple of
        senior software positions.  Sorry I can't be more specific, but there's
        32 slots and you probably don't want them all here in bushy detail.
        Email me if interested.  --lye
        \_  What's the salary for the Senior IC Designer? Thanks.
           \_ Don't know this information, sorry.  --lye
        \_ Please post this on the India's job site. -- GWB
           \_ What is *your* plan to stop outsourcing to India?
              \_ nothing.  Outsourcing is good for you if you still have a job.
                 It allows companies to stay competitive.  Do you want your
                 company to shutdown and lay you off? -- GWB
                 \_ ok so the troll doesn't have a plan, just negativity.
                 \_ ok so the troll doesn't have a plan, just relativity.
                     \_ Hey sir!  I am trying my very best to protect your
                        sorry ass company. -- GWB
                           \_ but true.
                 \_ ok so the troll doesn't have a plan, just relativity.
                        sorry ass company. -- GWB
                        \_ yawn.
        \_ 32?  So you're starting over?
           \_ No, it's an expansion for a future product, I think.  These are
              new positions, not old positions being refilled.  Why do I
              get the feeling I've just answered a non-serious inquiry? --lye
              \_ it was semi-serious.  the first products out didn't exactly
                 take over the world after all the hype about killing Intel,
                 etc, secret messages in home page, etc.
                 \_ Yeah, true that.  I didn't work there then, oh well.
                    Surprise, they're still around!  Anyway, they're only
                    jobs...Some people need them.
                    \_ That's cool.  Never drink the koolaid at any company
        \_ oh. Your company is still alive?
           \_ what do you mean still alive?!  My favorite simian stock
           \_ Is Ditzel still running the show there?  Oh you poor pups.
              picker says the stock of lye's employer is a buy!:
                http://www.trudythemonkey.com
           \_ TMTA has $110 mill in cash and short-term investments. -tom
           \_ Is Ditzel still running the show there?  Oh you poor pups.
2004/3/5-6 [Health, Industry/Jobs] UID:12546 Activity:nil
3/5     http://store.nimanranch.com/store/nimanranch/help3.jsp
        This FAQ is particularly enlightening.
        \_ That's also disgusting. Who feeds plastic to animals for "roughage"?
2004/3/5-8 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12531 Activity:nil
3/4     Yahoo! hiring sysadmins: /csua/pub/jobs/yahoo  -ekim
        \_ what's the pay range?  It looks junior-mid level.  Any point in
           an expensive senior guy applying?
           \_ "pay depends on experience" etc.  Several positions open.
                Well within current industry-wide ranges.  You're welcome
                to submit your resume and we can talk.
        \_ for the lazy:
Be a member of a dynamic team that is vital to Yahoo!, including our leading
Web Search engine.  You will develop, run, and monitor tools for
large-scale search clusters located around the world, using primarily
Linux.  This position is full-time, located in Sunnyvale, CA.

Responsibilities:
* Administer Linux clusters, monitor their health and performance
* Develop and maintain in-house automation for world-wide cluster operations
* Coordinate and execute changes to live cluster software and configurations
* Diagnose and repair production clusters
* Participate in the on-call pager rotation
* Collaborate in the design of cluster configurations with developers
* Work closely with other system administrator and network teams

Requirements:
* 2+ years experience with Linux
* Strong Perl scripting skills
* 2+ years experience administering large Linux installations in a tier 1
  environment
* BS Computer Science and/or strong System Administration background.

Send questions and text (or url to) resumes to ekim
2004/3/4-5 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:12519 Activity:nil
4/3     Can someone give me a description in layman's English what CRM and
        ERP are (in the business software world)?  Thanks!
        \_ CRM: Software which tracks customers, including what they bought,
           when they last bought, how much they bought, how likely they
           are to buy again, who they are, how to contact them, how they
           they are distributed geographically, who is responsible for
           interfacing with them, when was the last time you called them,
           how many times have you contacted them, when will you meet them,
           when was the last time you sent them out something, etc.
           ERP: I have to build 100 boats to meet an order. Each boat contains
           100,000 parts and requires three different fabs and twenty different
           distributors for base parts. I need to coordinate how these boats
           get built on time, within spec, and under budget. I also have
           5000 employees to coordinate, enter SAP/IBM/Oracle.
        \_ CRM is usually some piece of software that coordinates
           correspondence with clients and prospects in some meaningful
           (usually sales-driven) way.  Never heard of ERP.  Though a quick
           google comes up with this:
           http://www.cio.com/research/erp/edit/erpbasics.html --scotsman
        \_ I realize these are not definitions, but expanding the
           acronyms should help you anyway:
           CRM = Customer relationship management
           ERP = Enterprise resource planning
        \_ ERP = everything a company does except what it does
        \_ ERP is sort of a tracking system for "resources" your internal
           processes use.  Both of these things are more of a layer of
           software than a single application, and usually involve software
           components knit together with a variety of databases.  Surf on
           almost anything SAP does and you may get a better feel for what
           those components actually do.                -brain
        \_ Thanks for all the answers, everyone.  I STFW but I never found
           anything that really explained in plain simple English.  --op
2004/2/20 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29826 Activity:very high
2/20    Restored after some idiot child deleted all the comments.
        This isn't a one-way message board for job postings and one
        word answer technical questions.  It is a discussion forum for
        topics of interest.  If a topic is of no interest to you, then
        ignore it.  Deleting them does not improve the quality of the
        motd, it reduces it by making it more likely that others with
        overlapping interests will cease using the motd because their
        topics keep getting killed and the rest just isn't interesting
        enough for them.  You may miss out on a job posting or
        technical answer because you've ruined the motd months or
        years earlier for a hiring manager or highly skilled person.
        Do yourself a favor and leave the motd alone.  It doesn't need
        you to police it or 'clean it up.  Think of yourself even if
        you have no consideration for others.  Thank you.
        (extended whine nuked, but silly discussions preserved in
        deference to silly whiners' sensitivities.)  [and restored
        twice now because you still don't "get it".]
        \_ Guess what?  The fuckwit censors never will "get it."  The only
           solution is when they get like that, start deleting all the
           technical posts.  After a few days of saturation bombing, the
           fuckers give up.
        \_ tell us about the tragedy of the commons
           \_ this is not tragedy of the commons, go back to read your
              basics of capitalism
                \_ it was a joke.
        \_ There is a technical reason to this.  Those who knows how to
           monitor the motd text file, please either post the script and/or
           post the name of the person who is constantly deleting motd.
2004/2/19-24 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12307 Activity:nil
2/18    We're looking to hire a couple software engineers.
        Downtown San Jose.  Please see /csua/pub/jobs/GlobalVR
2004/2/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12275 Activity:very high
2/16    Poll, I post on motd regularly and I am a:
        dropout: ...........
        sysadm: .
        developer: .
        programmer: ...
        manager/director: .
        real estate:
        grad student: ...
        ugrad student:
        \_ difference between developer and programmer?
           \_ "Developer" just sounds vague and lame.
              \_ Also, there are several careers that use this term,
                 including real estate, construction, and fundraising as
                 well as probably a few others.
        \_ in the context of this poll, developer should be the same as
           programmer.  I don't know why the poll writer is distinguishing
           them, probably in ACADEMIA for too long, when INDUSTRY is where
           you make the big bux.
           \_ op had developer, I added "programmer" because "developer"
              is such a stupid title.  It's like being an "sales associate"
              at a store instead of being a goddamn "clerk".
              \_ do you think there's a difference between programmer and
                 software engineer?
                 \_ In a word, yes.
                 software developer > computer programmer > developer, coder
                  > programmer
              \_ IMO, best terms to use:
                 software engineer > software developer > computer programmer
                  > developer, coder > programmer
                 (thanks for the sw engineer suggestion)
2004/2/10-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12186 Activity:nil
2/9     A rare opportunity! WebFeat, a start-up provider of patent-pending
        Knowledge Prism technology for academic, public, corporate and
        government libraries currently has a position for a Software
        Development Engineer. see /csua/pub/jobs/webfeat
        \_ So, what, you sell shitty European automobiles over the web?
        \_ More buzzwords than you can shake a stick at!
           \_ Is the stick fully buzzword compliant?
        \_ "Knowledge Prism technology"?
          \_ Maybe marketroidian for 'data mining'?
             \_ Just like on Startrek where everything is stored in data cubes.
                Beam me up!
2004/2/1 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12062 Activity:moderate
1/31    Boring motd.  Stupid technical questions, and stupid job postings.
        Where's the glory?  Where's the zinc?
        \_ Weekend motds are slow. Most of us aren't bored enough to go through
           the motions.
        \_ It's the weekend.  There are more censors than posters on the
           weekend so there's no reason to post much.  The censors got what
           they wanted, at least on the weekends, a dead motd.
        \_ When was there ever any zinc?
           \_ There was some zinc a few days ago.
              \_ Come back, Zinc! Come back!
              \_ Come back, Zinc; come back!
2004/2/1 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Jobs] UID:12059 Activity:nil 66%like:12030
1/29    "Hey all, my girlfriend is hiring a part-time eunuchs sis admin
        contractor...", see http://tinyurl.com/2f6wd
2004/1/29-2/1 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12030 Activity:nil 66%like:12059
1/29    "Hey all, my girlfriend is hiring a part-time unix sys admin
        contractor...", see /csua/pub/jobs/sysadmin
        \_ I still want to know how so many women ended up in technical
           management roles.  I've yet to meet a single woman in such a
           position with enough technical *or* management experience to
           fill a piss bucket.
           \_ Donna Shirley
           \_ Yes, any and all men are fully qualified for these positions
              no matter what. Women need not apply because sysadmins on
              the motd are latent homosexuals and only want to hang around
              with other men in the server room....serving each other.
           \_ At Cisco three of my managers were women. All of them were
              knowledgeable about the development of routing software
              and network design and deployment. Two of them had 15+
              years of coding experience (real coding in assembler and
              c) before becoming managers. They were also the best
              organized and friendliest managers I've worked for. They
              always made sure that things like monthly one-on-ones
              occured, that reviews were taken care of in a timely
              fashion, that people weren't overworked, necessary equip.
              \_ I'm glad your experience was different from mine.  However,
                 you don't have enough evidence to claim "most women" are
                 highly competent or anything else.  You got lucky, IMO.
              \_ I interned at Cisco and noticed lots of female managers. This
                 is consistent w/ other places I've worked as well. From exper,
                 I see that women can be just as technical as men, but that
                 more often than not they also possess other skills that male
                 engineers lack. These skills include organizational and ppl
                 skills. --likes working with women and men
        \_ Is she HAWT?
              was available &c.
              No doubt some women (and many men) who are incompetent
              become mgrs but most women who become mgrs. are given
              that position because they are highly competent.
2004/1/27-2/1 [Industry/Jobs] UID:11952 Activity:nil
1/26    Undergrad SysAdmin & Web Development Position Available in EECS/ERL
        /csua/pub/jobs/EECSERL
        \_ doesn't seem to be readable.
           \_ Thus the need for the sysadmin....
2004/1/26-2/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Jobs] UID:11948 Activity:nil
1/26    Some cool jobs at DemandTec in Redwood City / San Carlos.
        http://www.demandtec.com/contact/engineering.html
        Applied math, CS theory, distributed systems, UI, etc...
        We also do lots of Operations Research and Stat.  Send me your
        resume if you are interested.  -- joshk
        \_ (We also have some unposted openings for general CS types)
2004/1/14-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:11781 Activity:nil
1/13    Windows network driver/NDIS senior developer, 5 years experience
        needed.  Mail wck@genp.com (recruiter).
        \_ Uh...  What the FUCK is recruiter scum doing on the motd?
2004/1/7-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:11703 Activity:nil
1/6     Java Development Engineer position available at PlanetOut.
        /csua/pub/jobs/PlanetOut
        Ask me out if you have any question. -ausman
2003/12/31-2004/1/6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:11634 Activity:nil
12/31   I'd like to see more Berkeley grads work at AMZN so I'm announcing this
        one more time.  Anyone here looking for a job?  AMZN is aggressively
        hiring SDE IIs and IIIs right now.  Pretty much all positions are up in
        Seattle though.  Send me your resume and I'll refer you -larryl
        \_ I thought they are expanding down in the Bay Area?
           \_ I believe they have announced moving a small search division
              there.  Don't count on too many positions though.
        \_ what are SDE's?
           \_ Software Development Engineer (as opposed to hardware, tech
              support)
        \_ What is a "SDE"?
           \_ Software Development Engineer?
        \_ http://www.hyperdictionary.com/computing/sde
           Software Development Environment
           \_ http://www.lsc.co.uk/otherinformation/glossary.html#s
              Shared Data Environment
        \_ Maybe no one wants to work with someone who is such a moron he
           uses stock symbols for company names.  Doesn't it hurt when
           someone asks you where you work and you choke on saying AMZN and
           cover them in spit and they beat the shit out of you?
              wierd. They seemed more like recent initiates into a religious
           \_ What world do you live in where anyone cares about this crap?!
           \_ I don't know about that. I have never met larryl. I did live for
              in Seattle for two and half years. The Amazon kids were a little
              weird. They seemed more like recent initiates into a religious
              cult than employees. Anybody else have this impression?
           \_ I thought using AMZN was okay.
                \_ Well AMZN we at least get. What about SDE ?
                   \_ I emailed larryl a tongue-in-cheek letter asking him
                      what amazon was doing with second order stochastic
                      differential equations, it was the only thing I could
                      think of when I saw SDE-II. First time I saw his post
                      I thought it was some sort of brokerage firm looking
                      for a math person to do voodoo forcasting on stocks.
                      If said person is really serious about looking for
                      candidates, he should post a complete description
                      written in standard english to the motd and to
                      the /csua/pub/jobs directory. I mean seriously, stop
                      wasting other people's time if you're just fucking around.
                      --williamc
                      \_ Isn't "wasting other people's time if you're just
                         fucking around" exactly what you were doing with
                         your "tongue-in-cheek letter"?
        \_ You fruits are all lame.  He's offering a referral to work at a
           stable, reputable company, even if you have to move to Seattle.
           I also had no problem with reading the terms "AMZN" and "SDE II".
           \_ So what is an SDE II? Why not say s/w engineer or s/w
              developer? "SDE II" is too fucking formal for the motd. What's
              the difference between an "SDE II" and an "SDE III" (or an
              "SDE I" for that matter)?
              \_ If you don't know what it stands for, just ask.  No need
                 to resort to profanity (too formal of a word for you?).
                 I thought it's nice gesture.  And to people who have
                \_ Well AMZN we at least get. What about SDE ?
                      --williamc
                 worked for a while, SDE, SQA are quite common terms.
                 Have you thought of the possibility that he was
                 trying to filter out people who have no prior experience?
                 \_ 9 years experience and never heard of SDE. You ever
                    hear of MTS?
                    \_ You know, it's okay to be ignorant.  No one's going
                       to hold it against you if you have to ask what a given
                       acronym means.  You can even do it politely without
                       profanity!
                       \_ Here's a good acronym: FOAD
                    \_ Member of Technical Staff
2003/12/30-31 [Industry/Jobs] UID:11610 Activity:nil
12/29   Anyone here looking for a job?  My employer, AMZN is looking for
        SDE II hires.  Lemme know if you're interested -larryl
        \_ what's an SDE II?  software developer E?
           \_ software development engineer?
              \_ more like Sucker of Dicks, Extraordinaire.
                 \_ what's that pay these days?
                        \_ 70k
        \_ Whatever happend to Sean Welch? Is he still there? -ausman
2003/12/12-16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:11436 Activity:nil
12/12   Any one know of any job openings for a unix kernel developer
        strengths in networking and storage?  Thanks. --jwm
        \_ every once in a while I see something on craigslist for
           this type of job.
        \_ checked procket, juniper, cisco ?
           \_ also check ironport.
        \_ EMC?
2003/11/15-16 [Industry/Jobs, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:11097 Activity:nil
11/15   When IT jobs disappear
        http://news.com.com/2010-1022-5106494.html
        \_ All this lumping of IT together is inane.  Just because few car
           manufacturing jobs are left in the US doesn't mean all car jobs are
           gone.  If you're not the brains behind your company, or you're not
           doing a job that requires you to be on-site, you might as well be
           manufacturing buggy-whips.  Otherwise, your job is likely safe...for
           now.
           \_ la la la!  I'm a sysadmin, not a java monkey, la la la, gotta
              be on site, got job security, la la la!  One day I'll also be
              fat *and* a libertarian! --skinny employed onsite sysadmin
                \_ But how much money do you make?
                   \_ $120k/year with a raise coming by Xmas.  You?  -seos
2003/11/1 [Industry/Jobs] UID:10893 Activity:nil
10/31   I want to start a professional society that finds the most painfully
        hideous implementations of various electrical engineering practices
        and tracks down the engineer responsible and shouts at them on speaker
        phone after getting rip roaring drunk.  any takers?
        \_ what's it called?
           \_ I'll figure that out when I sober up.
2003/10/25-26 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:10786 Activity:nil
10/25   Had an interview yesterday with a startup.  It was just like 1998!
        Go go gadget economy go!
        \_ where?
           \_ hah!  not a chance!  *I* found it, its my 1998 startup and I
              aint telling!  --op
           \_ Top Dog!
              \_ Top Dog isn't a startup.  Squirrel-on-a-stick, on the other
                 hand....
                 \_ 1. Kill Squirrels
                    2. ?????
                    3. Profit!
                    \_ Arf! Arf!
                    \_ 2. Put squirrel on stick?
                       \_ Hey!  That was under NDA!  You're so sued!
                          \_ Dude, seriously, you *CAN'T* put a patent on
                             *squirrels*.
                             \_ we didn't patent squirrels but we have a
                                patent pending business method that involves
                                them.  I can't give you details yet but think
                                of: squirrels, the net, and one-click and
                                you're halfway there.
                             \_ See US patent number D369,202,
                                "The ornamental design for a squirrel skinner,
                                as shown and described."
                                http://www.uspto.gov
                                Why am i not suprised this guy is from West
                                Virginia?
                                \_ I'm speechless.  Just...speechless.
                                \_ You're not surprised because you're a hater?
                                   \_ http://web.wt.net/~psherr/squirrel_hazing.htm
2003/10/22-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:10733 Activity:nil
10/21   Positions available at Zone Labs updated.
        Positions include Unix device driver developer,
        NDIS device driver developer, security researcher, QA engineer (2),
        java developer (2), content analyst, and Sr. engineering manager.
        See ~sky/jobs or email sking@zonelabs.com for details.
        --sky
        \_ jobs@freebsd.org
        \_ We love you sky!
           \_ Right on...he's OUR sky!
              \_ WOOT!!!!  --sky #1 Fan
                \_ Uhhh..uh..uh...uhhh...fuggit  -Sparky
2003/10/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:10530 Activity:low
10/7    Anybody know of a free solids-modeling application for Linux?
        \_ you can try poop. either your own, or someone else's if they're
           willing to donate it. best when not too wet, but not too dry.
           and the best part is it's totally free and cross-platform.
           \_ of course if poop were really a Linux application, there
              would now follow a two page flame war about dog poop vs.
              horse poop.
2003/10/1-3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:29551 Activity:nil
10/01   http://www.taprootfoundation.org/about/index.shtml
        Has anyone here tried working with these guys? It sounds like a
        great idea in principle that is very difficult to pull off well in
        practice; I'm curious -- is it actually working?
2003/10/1-3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:10405 Activity:low
10/1    http://www.taprootfoundation.org/about/index.shtml
        Has anyone here tried working with these guys? It sounds like a
        great idea in principle that is very difficult to pull off well in
        practice; I'm curious -- is it actually working?

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:.,,,,:,,,..,+::......:.:::::++++++++++*,,,,,,,,.,+,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
\_ Truly a great end to a great Day In the Life of the motd.
\_ Oh yeah?  How about:

                         8888  8888888
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               8888:::8888888888888888888888888
             8888::::::8888888888888888888888888888
            88::::::::888:::8888888888888888888888888
          88888888::::8:::::::::::88888888888888888888
        888 8::888888::::::::::::::::::88888888888   888
           88::::88888888::::m::::::::::88888888888    8
         888888888888888888:M:::::::::::8888888888888
        88888888888888888888::::::::::::M88888888888888
        8888888888888888888888:::::::::M8888888888888888
         8888888888888888888888:::::::M888888888888888888
        8888888888888888::88888::::::M88888888888888888888
      88888888888888888:::88888:::::M888888888888888   8888
     88888888888888888:::88888::::M::;o*M*o;888888888    88
    88888888888888888:::8888:::::M:::::::::::88888888    8
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  8888888888888888888:::8::::::M::aAa::::::::M8888888888       8
  88   8888888888::88::::8::::M:::::::::::::888888888888888 8888
 88  88888888888:::8:::::::::M::::::::::;::88:88888888888888888
 8  8888888888888:::::::::::M::"@@@@@@@"::::8w8888888888888888
  88888888888:888::::::::::M:::::"@a@":::::M8i888888888888888
 8888888888::::88:::::::::M88:::::::::::::M88z88888888888888888
8888888888:::::8:::::::::M88888:::::::::MM888!888888888888888888
888888888:::::8:::::::::M8888888MAmmmAMVMM888*88888888   88888888
888888 M:::::::::::::::M888888888:::::::MM88888888888888   8888888
8888   M::::::::::::::M88888888888::::::MM888888888888888    88888
 888   M:::::::::::::M8888888888888M:::::mM888888888888888    8888
  888  M::::::::::::M8888:888888888888::::m::Mm88888 888888   8888
   88  M::::::::::::8888:88888888888888888::::::Mm8   88888   888
   88  M::::::::::8888M::88888::888888888888:::::::Mm88888    88
   8   MM::::::::8888M:::8888:::::888888888888::::::::Mm8     4
       8M:::::::8888M:::::888:::::::88:::8888888::::::::Mm    2
      88MM:::::8888M:::::::88::::::::8:::::888888:::M:::::M
     8888M:::::888MM::::::::8:::::::::::M::::8888::::M::::M
    88888M:::::88:M::::::::::8:::::::::::M:::8888::::::M::M
   88 888MM:::888:M:::::::::::::::::::::::M:8888:::::::::M:
   8 88888M:::88::M:::::::::::::::::::::::MM:88::::::::::::M
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Go Do Your Homework. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
     888    MM:::::::MMM::::::::::::::::MM:::MM:::::::::::::::M
      88     M::::::::MMMM:::::::::::MMMM:::::MM::::::::::::MM
       88    MM:::::::::MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM::::::::MMM::::::::MMM
        88    MM::::::::::::MMMMMMM::::::::::::::MMMMMMMMMM
         88   8MM::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::MMMMMM
          8   88MM::::::::::::::::::::::M:::M::::::::MM
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              888888 M::::::M:::::::::::::::::::M:::MM
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             888888  M:::::M:::::::::@::::::::::::::M::M
             88888   M::::::::::::::@@:::::::::::::::M::M
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          8888   M:::::M:::::::::::::::::::::::MM:::::::M:::M
         8888   M:::::M:::::::::::::::::::::::MMM::::::::M:::M
        888    M:::::Mm::::::::::::::::::::::MMM:::::::::M::::M
      8888    MM::::Mm:::::::::::::::::::::MMMM:::::::::m::m:::M
     888      M:::::M::::::::::::::::::::MMM::::::::::::M::mm:::M
  8888       MM:::::::::::::::::::::::::MM:::::::::::::mM::MM:::M:
             M:::::::::::::::::::::::::M:::::::::::::::mM::MM:::Mm
            MM::::::m:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::M::MM:::MM
            M::::::::M:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::M::M:::MM
           MM:::::::::M:::::::::::::M:::::::::::::::::::::M:M:::MM
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Weren't you supposed to do XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX your homework? XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
           M:::::::::::::::::::M::::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
           MM:::::::::::::::::M::::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
            M:::::::::::::::::M::::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
            MM:::::::::::::::M::::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
             M:::::::::::::::M:::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
             MM:::::::::::::M:::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
              M:::::::::::::M::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
              MM:::::::::::M::::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
               M:::::::::::M:::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
               MM:::::::::M:::::::::::::::::::::::MMM
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                  MM::::M::::::::::::::::::::MMM
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                    MM::::M:::::::::MMM:
                    mMM::::MM:::::::MMMM
                     MMM:::::::::::MMM:M
                     mMM:::M:::::::M:M:M
                      MM::MMMM:::::::M:M
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                      mMM::MM::::::::M:M
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                       MM::MM::::::::::M:m
2003/9/26-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Industry/Jobs] UID:10344 Activity:kinda low
9/26    I am looking to hire several experienced C developers to work on
        a network security product and a financial (stock trading) application.
        If you or anyone you know is looking for a job please email a resume to
        rjchu@hightowersoftware.com
        \_ Wow.  Is it an embedded product?  Or a legacy one?  Are you sure it's
           in C?
           on C?
           \_ It's gotta be .NET/C#/F# or Java
              \_ !C != .NET/C#/F# or Java
                 \_ You're just jealous because you don't have 10+ years of
        \_ I have 15+ years of Java, C#, and .NET!
           \_ Do you have over 10 years of HTML?
           on C?
           \_ It's gotta be .NET/C#/F# or Java
              \_ !C != .NET/C#/F# or Java
                    C# or .NET technologies and innovations on your resume.
                   \_ yeah, it didn't even exists until 3 yrs ago
                    \_ [ Someone discovering America by opening their window ]
2003/9/17 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:10220 Activity:nil
9/16    Related to the evaluation question below, how do you answer the
        interview question "what are your weaknesses"? I've gotten that
        from two different guys at the same company before and it was kinda
        painful because they really, really pushed deep on that question.
        \_ Do like they did on The Simpsons. "I'm a workaholic."
        \_ "My weakness is I refuse to work with doofuses who ask
           lame-ass questions like 'what are your weaknesses'?"
        \_ "I survived UC Berkeley where we kill the weak and eat their still
            beating hearts!  I have no weaknesses, little man!  What pathetic
            'school' did *you* go to?"  It doesn't really matter what you say.
            You're dealing with some doofus and every answer can be turned
            into the wrong answer.  You can say something like, "well my
            girlfriend sometimes gets upset that I'm such a take-charge
            gung-ho kinda guy when we make plans but she always has fun!"
            All answers are stupid, just try to avoid giving an axe-murderer
            answer.
            \_ These were the two highest-ranking tech godfathers at this co.
               If you had said that "take charge" answer they'd scoff and
               make you give a *real* weakness. Oh well, fuck 'em I guess.
               One of them spent about half the interview on that question,
               and the rest questioning my "passion for engineering" and why
               I'm an engineer etc... unfortunately rather close to home tho.
               \_ I'm 28 and a software engineer, and I want to work with
                  "good" people more than get a salary.  The fact that they're
                  asking these meta-questions might suggest that they're
                  concerned with what your life goals and attitudes are,
                  have you figured it out.  It's just a job, but you
                  spend half your life at work, so I can see why.
                  \_ No, it means the interviewers are lazy and/or
                     inexperienced.  However, your answer is correct.  -John
               \_ I've had the exact same thing happen to me when I gave some
                  clever variation on the 'work too hard' line.  So I told him
                  I'm smart and have low tolerance for people who are
                  intentionally stupid.  Not stupid people, but people who
                  play dumb for political or other reasons.  I got an offer,
                  but I don't think that had anything to do with it.  I think
                  he was just filling time and feeling self important.
                  \_ yeah. btw i needed *3* weaknesses. well, it actually
                     taught me how to be better prepared for interviews.
                     it's all about attitude.
                     \_ 3?  That's fucking crazy.  "Gee, I'm not that flawed".
                     \_ a more specific question would have been
                        "tell me 3 things your co-workers hate about you"
        \_ the standard answer is: "I work too hard...". not inspiring or
           original, but it works. if yer just outta skewl, mention that
           you spent all yer time in the computer lab. don't mention the
           B.O. problem.
        \_ a good manager (read, the kind of manageryou want to work with)
           knows that different people are happier doing different things.
           Questions like this aren't ment to be ducked.  What they are trying
           to get at is "What sort of stuff do you do poorly?  What sort of
           stuff do you just not enjoy doing?"  Yeah saying something like
           "I goof off half the day and get everything done late" is stupid
           but a real answer like "when I'm working on a project with a bad
           debugging environment my productivity drops really bad" would,
           say let them know you might do better at being a server coding
           person that working with some proprierty scripting system that
           doesn't have real tools.  They want people, not pretend workaholics
           who will leave in disgust six months later because they treated
           management as roadblocks to be worked around, and somehow, gee,
           that made work a nightmare.
           \_ This is probably true but I've never had the pleasure of working
              with a "good" manager. Then again, I'm in civil engineering, not
              coding. The consensus among those I've talked to is that the
              weakness question is the interviewer getting in an early stab at
              establishing pecking order. They, after all, will never have to
              answer such a ridiculous question of themselves from you. If you
              want the job, have your canned answer ready and don't be worried
              that it's not exactly honest. They're not looking for honesty.
              They're looking for you to subvert your ego for the "team". You
              may, however, want to consider whether this is the sort of
              situation where you'd like to work, if you have a choice in the
              matter. In the current times, nobody in my business really has
              much choice.
              \_ I had a good manager once.  I can barely remember what it was
                 like....  Maybe we had the same one since I think there's only
                 about 3 out there.
2003/9/17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:10219 Activity:nil
9/16    New Graduate Salary Survey Quiz.  What was your starting salary if
        you've graduated in the last two years with a CS or EECS degree?
         < 35K:
        35-40K:
        40-45K:
        45-50K:
        50-55K:
        55-60K:
        60-65K: .
                \_ 2 years ago, didn't graduate.
        65-70K: .
                \_ and my company is hiring if anyone is interested
                   \_ which company?
                      \_ hm, it seems we have a ucla ee/cs guy problem
         > 70K: .
        still looking for a job: .
2003/9/12-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:10171 Activity:nil
9/12    Has the job market in CS begun to recover, esp. in the bay area?
        I am not in CS myself but a friend asked me this question.
        \- yes, if you have mad gis skillz.
        \_ Talented people can get jobs.  NCG's can get jobs.  People who
           are midlevel are still doomed.
           \_ What's "NCG"?
              \_ New College Grad?
        \_ If you don't know someone on the inside, fahget about it.
2003/9/10-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:10139 Activity:nil
9/10    Senior software engineer opening at Yahoo!:
        "We are looking for a experienced, self-motivated engineer to join the
        team to work on local search. You'll be a member of a team design and
        implement all aspect of a distributed system for location based
        content. Applicant should have BSCS/MSCS, 5+ years industrial
        experience, excellent communication skills. Extensive experience in
        C/C++, Perl, MySQL, Apache, XML on UNIX platform is required. Knowledge
        of PHP and geographical information system(GIS) is a plus."
        - Please send resume or questions to eyip
        \_ Don't they mean 'industry experience'?  Or do they want someone who
           has been a factory worker?
        \_ Sounds like they want a geography major who is also a programming
           guru.  But wait, they say they want a BS/MS in CS.  But *none* of
           them will have GIS skills which are very specific to geographers
           and only a subset of those.  They don't know what they want and
           won't find it, especially now that the market is tightening up.
           A big "fuck you!" to all employers with insane job requirements for
           the last 3+ years.
            \_ dude, chill.  they just said it is a "plus", not a requirement
               and i'm sure there are muliple coders out there who have worked
               with GIS because they aren't the first to write related code.
               \_ Plus always means required.  And required means must have
                  all bizarre and unrelated skills at 100%.  And oh yeah, we
                  didn't really have funding for that job anyway, we're just
                  trying to fool our competitors into thinking we're doing
                  better than we really are.
                  \- helo, i dont think that is ness true. i'm not a cs major
                     or geography major but i have some "gis experience"
                  \- i dont think that is really true. i'm not a cs major or
                     a geography major but i have some "gis experience"
                     [ooh, bad flashback]. the commercial software isnt
                     that well written [the unix platform stuff was really
                     leem. it was eventually moved to windows and i got off
                     of the project] so maybe the expectations are low in
                     this area. a lot of statisticians use this stuff and
                     they do a lot of programming, so while maybe it will
                     coalescing on low latency paths but i dont think
                     be rare to find someone who knows a *lot* about GIS
                     and know a lot about say the effects of interrupt
           \_ there has been at least one reasonable berkeley hack who
              graduated with a geography degree, so the combination exists.
                     coalescing on low latency networks but i dont think
                     general programming experience and moderate GIS exp
                     is particularly rare. ok tnx.
2003/8/29-30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:10015 Activity:moderate
8/29    How do I deal with a co-worker who is delegating his responsibliities
        to me and then taking credit for the work afterwards? He's the
        Director of Architecture and had me write an architecture document.
        When I showed him the nearly completed doc, he essentially said to me
        "thanks, you know it wouldn't be right for you to present this to
        Engineering. I'll go ahead and present it."
        \_ If he's not your boss, how did he "have you" do it?
        \_ set him up... put "this document was written in full by XXX XXXXX"
           in the footers of every page after page 10.
        \_ It's too late for this one, but you need to network with Engineering
           and discuss what you're working on. If you get highjacked, piss and
           moan to them.
        \_ Is this your boss? If so, there is nothing you can do. That is
           what bosses do, they get people to do work for them and then
           take credit for it. The most you can hope for is a pat on the
           back from him and a raise when the time is due. If this is not
           your boss, complain to your boss.
           \_ He's not my boss. I did just complain to my boss in my weekly
              TPS report. And thus far, my solution to this was to name the
              new architecture after myself. -op
           \_ I'm a 'boss' and I always try to give my employees more credit
              than they are do... I routinely say "we did X" when it was really
              me doing X and then showing someone how to support X. Maybe
        \_ it's an easy enough task to show that you wrote the document
           by showing greater understanding of it than he does.  Having
           a good opportunity to do it is the problem.  btdt ... --Jon
        \_ You got burned on this one but you can do damage recovery by doing
           things like mailing the engineers and asking if they had any
           questions about your documentation.  In the future, keep in touch
           with them as you write it, show them drafts, etc along the way and
           when this asshole says it wouldn't be appropriate, grill him on it
           and ask why not?  If it's a written doc that they'll get and he
           only has a paper copy you can stick your name all over it.  Don't
           give up the original doc.  "It wouldn't be appropriate for me to
           give you my original source material".
        \_ is it really your architecture? ie: the content was based
           on his ideas or yours? also, these things should be checked
           into a Source Safe of some sort, if you did , it'll be
           under your name.
           \_ that's not enough.  this is a political situation, not a
              technical one.  no one important is ever going to see the
              name on the source control files.  the op must get out there
              and get involved and communicate with other people who matter
              why I'm never promoted. -happy at the bottom of the totem pole.
        \_ it's an easy enough task to show that you wrote the document
           by showing greater understanding of it than he does.  Having
           a good opportunity to do it is the problem.  btdt ... --Jon
           only has a paper copy you can stick your name all over it.  Don't
           give up the original doc.  "It wouldn't be appropriate for me to
           give you my original source material".
              and tell them about his plans and documents.  if he continues
              to be passive he'll just get crunched.  if all you did was leave
              your name on a source safe file, i'd steal your work, too.
2003/7/22-24 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:29104 Activity:kinda low
7/22    Looking for junior java developers.  Limited job experience is a plus.
        /csua/pub/jobs/Snapfish.junior.java
        I asked and got more info: money isn't the issue.  The reason for
        wanting a junior level person is they need someone junior enough who
        is willing to do junior level work and not quit as soon as a senior
        level job comes along.  They don't want to underemploy someone.  This
        is intended to be a good learning first/second job thing for the
        employee and a reliable, smart person to do stuff that needs to be
        done but no one else has time for right now.  They expect/hope the
        candidate will stick around long term and become senior in time.
        \_ What if you've been unemployed so long you've fallen
           from senior to junior. Like you've had a concussion. Is that OK?
           \_ You can't succeed if you don't try.  Send me a resume.  I'll
              pass on anything from any Berkeley alum but I'm not the hiring
              manager or even in that group so I can't promise a job or an
              interview.  I do promise that your resume will be read by
              someone else here (probably several someones) and won't get
              instantly trash canned unread like many companies are doing
              today.
2003/7/22-27 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Jobs] UID:29093 Activity:kinda low 71%like:29140 85%like:29142 55%like:29155
7/22    Looking for junior java developers.   Limited job experience is a plus.
        /csua/pub/jobs/Snapfish.junior.java
        \_ This is a very interesting requirement. Why prefer junior over
           experienced java developers?  Is it the salary factor?  Or
           veteran coders have bad habits? Or are veteran coders very slow?
           Or Junior coders tend to work longer hours, and has no complaints?
           most places are looking for over 10 years experience which I think
           it's kinda dumb.  So exactly why are your company so different that
           seems to see the benefits of junior coders?
           \_ I'm sure it's all about $$$. It always is.
           \_ Money, of course, is always a factor.  As far as the rest,
              anyone is going to be expected to work the hours required to get
              their project(s) done.  I'm not on the dev team but I didn't
              hear anything about bad habits or experienced people being slow,
              etc.  I think they already have piles of veteran coder resumes.
              We don't have a problem taking junior people and training them
              up on the job unlike most companies today.  I guess that's the
              difference.  The dev team guys are all really decent.  No one
              is job hunting that I know of.  For anything more either write
              me and I'll find out or send a resume and you can ask in your
              interview.  I posted what I was told plus whatever else I know.
              \_ Oh I see. I was only curious as your company seems to be the
              only exception. From my working experience, if it were I to make
              the decision, I would give UCB undergrads interviews. My working
              experiences with UCB graduates are very good. And the people that
              supposedly have over 10 years of coding experiences all seem
              pretty lame (bad code, dumb algorith, slow and inacurrate...)--
              I'm talking about only the ppl that I have worked with.
                \_ Pretty much it comes down to having had good experiences
                   in the past hiring new college grads from quality schools.
                   Why pay more for 10+ years when you're happy with a NCG?
        \_ you know, computer science has matured in the past 30 years that
           really complex tasks can be partioned into many simple tasks.
           Look at EJB, J2EE, DB, etc. Everything is just an integration
           of many components that can be broken down further and further
           into more specialized and simple parts, and now we can just hire
           a lot of simple-minded code monkeys to do a product instead of
           a few expensive PhDs. My friend, CS is becoming more and more
           like the automobile industry where you only need a few designers
           (software architects) and a lot of dumb assembly line workers
           (code monkeys).
           \_ damn, that is depressing
           \_ Uhm, ok, maybe so.  Please send junior java resumes.  It's not
              my group so I can't confirm or deny that with regards to my
              company.  Please send junior java resumes.
           \_ In my experience intelligent programmers are hard to find
              and always in demand.  Sure most "progammers" slap together
              a bunch of components or use some visual tool instead of
              taking the time and effort required to do things intellegently.
              These kinds of programmers end up causing the endless
              bugs in windows, slow, bloated software, and missed deadlines.
              Good programmers will always be in demand because software
              development is a complex balance between speed, space,
              flexibility, and cost.
                \_ demand for excellence will always be there, but there
                   will be a much much greater demand for mediocrity.
                   Engineers get paid because business men say so, and
                   business men don't know jack about excellence. They
                   only understand time-to-market and marketting.
2003/7/11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:29003 Activity:very high
7.10    http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030710/economy_6.html
        They say new jobless claims hit a 20-year high
        but i am wondering if any of this is due to the
        fact more people were employed during the dot-com
        boom so there are more potential workers out of jobs
        and also, is it because they are simply more people
        in the workplace due to population growth and the fact
        that the past good economy got some people to get off
        their lazy ass and get a job? Or are all these factors
        already deducted from the statistics?
        \_ percentages of poeple filing are really high too.  The fact
           is that things are bad out there.
        \_ It's sort of like how recent movie hit all-time box office
           highs in ticket sales, but do they consider that tickets now
           average nearly $10 while in 1977 i saw Star Wars for $3.00?
           \_ Well, at least one site, http://boxofficemojo.com, does (Gone With
              The Wind is #1 all-time)
           \_ Yeah I hate that.
        \_ actual unemployment is usually a lot higher than the published
           the figure most of the time.  Further, If a person who is too
           lazy to look for a job, he won't be counted as an unemployed.
           Population is always growing, so that is not an excuse.  The real
           issue is that we are in a post over-produced economy, and there
           isn't a clear way to get out of it.  History is not very
           encouraging, as last time we got out of the mess by declar war
           on Germany and Japan.
           \_ See?  Bush is trying to get us out of the oncoming Depression!
              Why can't we all just help him start WW III ?
           \_ Anyone too lazy to look for a job (your crack mama) shouldn't
              count as unemployed.  She goes on permanent welfare and ends up
              counted under a different statistic and rightly so.  Part of the
              problem in tech is the H1b program.  With zillions of qualified
              Americans unemployed they're still letting in foreigners under a
              program intended to let in foreigners only to fill jobs where no
              qualified American is available.  And worse is abuse of the L
              program which has even fewer restrictions on who can come in, do
              what, for how long and how much.
              \_ what a shitty little troll you are.
                 \_ I'm glad you took the time to respond to something that
                    professional economists and others have pointed out for
                    years with an empty personal attack.  My points stand and
                    you're wasting bits until you say something worth posting.
                    \_ Businesses have cried that there aren't enough H1b
                       visas issued!  It's all about the free market; local
                       labor prices themselves right out of it.  Why pay more
                       when you can get an H1b guy who won't complain or
                       join unions?  Are you saying that companies that are
                       using H1b's are intentionally driving this economy
                       down?
                       \_ The H1b program was not created to push labor prices
                          down.  It was very specifically created to allow
                          companies to hire foreigners when there wasn't a
                          qualified American available.  It had nothing to do
                          with the free market or labor rates.  Any other use
                          is an abuse of the program.
                          \_ that's how they described it but it's pretty clear
                             that in practice it's just a cheap labor device.
                             "qualified" and "available" in that criteria are
                             just too hard to enforce.
                             \_ No, there are very clear regulations that state
                                how much effort a company must go through to
                                try to not only hire an American but *replace*
                                H1b workers with an American.  The only problem
                                here is abuse of the program which the feds
                                allow by ignoring it.  The difference here is
                                that I'm talking about the law and you're just
                                writing whatever you 'feel'.
                                \_ His feelings are as valid as a law that
                                   is ignored.
                                   \_ No because the law could and should be
                                      enforced.  His feelings should not.
                                \_ Abuse is not the "only problem". The law
                                   itself is the problem when it is too hard
                                   to enforce/easy to abuse. God you're dumb.
                                   \_ It isn't too hard to enforce.  They
                                      choose not to.  Thanks for the babyish
                                      personal attack.  You look so smart now.
                       \_ Business would prefer to pay $1/hr to workers for
                          80 hour work weeks, are you in favor of that, too?
                          \_ Yes, and it would work like this:  There aren't
                             that many people willing to work in those
                             conditions, and there would be a labor shortage.
                             To attract more workers, businesses would raise
                             wages and/or give other benefits, until a balance
                             was reached.  Free market all the way.
                             \_ Let's see, there are 800 M Chinese willing to
                                work for $1/hr and 100M Americans who are not.
                                How low do you think wages would go under your
                                plan?
                                \_ who the hell are you to cry about your
                                   artificially high wages??  If businesses
                                   *want* to lose money they can overpay
                                   for american workers.  Get some more
                                   marketable skills; not all workers add
                                   the same value to a company.
                                   \_ There are so skill so marketable that
                                      your job can't be outsourced for less to
                                      a third world country.  What set of
                                      skills should we all go get that can't
                                      be sent overseas?
2003/6/12-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:28714 Activity:low
6/11    A friend's company is hiring recent CS grads.  If you're
        interested, contact him directly:

        ----- Forwarded message-----

        > We are a privately funded technology startup looking for a
        > summer intern - a CS graduate who is capable of designing,
        > developing and testing web-based applications.

        > Strong perl/python and sql programming skills, good
        > understanding of databases, good knowledge of Unix/Linux,
        > willingness to code with an awareness of scaling
        > requirements.

        > Please send resumes to marietta@everesttech.net
        \_ So they want someone with 5+ years experience?
           \_ As far as I know, they would hire a fresh grad.  I'm
              sure that the requirements above are more of a wish
              list.
        \_ where is it?  Locations matter!
           \_ Mountain View.
2003/6/9-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:28683 Activity:very high
6/9     Ok got a technical onsite interview at a big company in Sunnyvale.
        Should I or should I not wear suits and why/why not?
        \_ You will look overdressed but that isn't such a big deal IF you
           look comfortable in a suit and it fits you well.  If you look like
           you have a suit that you only wear to job interviews you will look
           silly.  Just wear a nice pair of pants and a buttondown.
           \_ Agreed.  You must be comfy but don't go in looking like a slob
              either.  No jeans, sneakers, etc.
        \_ curious: what position are you interviewing for?
                \_ internship as a grad student for MTS.
                   \_ Shirt 'n slacks. Decent shoes please.
        \_ for experienced folks, dress professionally, but don't need to
           use coats and ties.
        \_ The suit will never hurt you and might help. Wear it. I've seen
           what CS/IS guys consider to be business casual. Yikes. Oh wait.
           I've seen the suits, too. Double yikes.
           \_ actually it can hurt you.  Although it is unlikely anyone will
              mark you down for wearing one, if you are one of those poeple
              who look awkward in a suit because you never wear one and dress
              pretty casual normally or your suit is cheap or doesn't fit
              well or whatever it will increase the awkwardness of the
              interview and that does hurt. -aspo
              \_ holy shit!  the sky is opening and raining flaming frogs!  i
                 agree with aspo on something!  must've been a bad batch....
        \_ is "try not to look better than your potential boss" a good tip?
           \_ no.
2003/5/31-6/1 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:28595 Activity:high
5/31    "Tom Devlin, director of UC Berkeley's career center, said that 2 out
        of 3 of the university's 6,000 graduating seniors are expected to be
        working full time six months after graduating."
        http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/31/MN254655.DTL
        \_ Retail, burger flipping, and car washing count.  The other third
           are in prison on drug and prostitution charges.
           \_ Oh, come on, it's not that bad.  I had to get a job as a lookout
              four a few months, but now I've got a good position in a major
              cartel as a runner, and things are looking good.
              \_ Hey that's great!  I was in the back in the chemlab naked for
                 the first 6 months before they let me be a courier!  What's
                 the secret to your success in our field?
                 \_ I put caltech on my resume instead of cal, and told them
                    i'd lived in the dorm that got busted for making smack.
                    it also helps to blow the pilots, since they have the
                    strongest connections to the higher-ups in colombia.
                    \_ Thanks for the resume tip.  I'll switch to Caltech too!
                     \_ Nasty little men like you always get their comeuppance.
                        \_ you're an idiot.  im going places.  by xmas ill be
                           one of the top 10 guys in columbia.
2003/5/29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:28570 Activity:very high
5/28    To those who don't understand Lila's request, have you any idea
        what's going on out there on the job market?  I'm happy you were
        at a nice stable place during this fun, but clearly you have no
        clue about the situation for many.
        \_ Yes, I do.  I've turned down offers and killed second round
           interviews at places that sucked from the first round.  Berkeley
           *should* have prepared you for this.  Either it has and you don't
           see it or your degree was wasted on you.  --has job, clue, offers
           \_ I knew many people with your arrogance, up till the point
              where they got hit by the downturn.  They're humble now.
              And less willing to tell others how they should be.
              \_ pshaw, been laid off twice during the down turn.  I spent the
                 good times learning stuff and saving money.  --job,clue,offers
              \_ sounds like have have many talents, but one of them isn't
                 humility. some day it might be good to add that to your skill
                 set. on a related note, one hiring mgr got so sick of the
                 arrogance of berkeley and stanfurd grads that he won't even
                 take a look at resumes from these schools anymore.
                 \_ humility is for the inept.  the rest of us are doing great,
                    thanks.  as far as your idiotic HM who won't even look at
                    resumes from top schools: if you only look at mediocre
              \_ The Book is the only Book I need to keep my life on track. If
                 you let Jesus into your heart, you'll find true happiness as
                 well.  Only The Lord can set you free and make you happy both
                 in this life and the next.
                    resumes you'll only get mediocre employees.  you work at
                    pacific bell, maybe?  a bank?  city government?  the HM is
                    from where?  cal state hayward?
        \_ there are also those who are sick of the tech industry and just
           something different, even mindless, just to pay the bills.
           \_ this is a good time to sit down and read "your money or your
              life" by dominguez and robins.  It changed my life.  I view the
              purpose of work completely different now.  And have a goal when
              working.  It's all about the money, but it's not about what
              money can buy.  Read the book.  I hope it changes your life
              as well.
              \_ the real lesson from this post is that what you need to do
                 is sit down and write some dipshit selfhelp book so that
                 other unemployed suckers all give you money and you never
                 have to work again.
                 \_ as usual, hot headed youngsters jump to conclusions.
                    You're a gamer aren't you?  Loser.
                    \_ I didn't write the thing you're replying to, but I'm
                       probably several years older than you and I agree with
                       the "gamer's" statement.  What does gaming have to do
                       with having a real job or a real life anyway?  You've
                       got some issues to work out, son.
              \_ work was *always* about the money.  what else could it be for?
                \_ I need money to pay rent, but I'd be willing to make
                   a lot less money to do stuff I love, or to do stuff I like
                   but work less hours and with less stress.  Money is nice
                   but there is a lot more to life than buying nice toys -aspo
                   \_ yeah but there's no reason to work other than money.
                        \_you have a very uplifting view of social change.
                          \_ it has nothing to do with social change.  are you
                             trying to get us all a 15 hour work week?
              \_ oops forgot something else.  In addition to "your money or
                 your life" I also recommend "getting a life..." by Blix
                 and heitmiller.  It's written by a couple who went through
                 the steps described in the dominguez book.  Also very good.
              \_ http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/66/mylife.html
                 \_ Thanks for posting this.
                 \_ I highly recommend this book. "You money or your life"
                    is more about not getting screwed, and maximizing your
                    earnings, which is still compatible with finding a job you
                    are happy with, alla this book. -tcmoore
2003/5/21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:28501 Activity:high
5/20    This happen to you. You get laid off, but your loyalty entitles
        you to 'salary continuation.' You ask you former company if it's
        ok to get unemployment insurance. They say yes. You collect.
        A year later the EDD send you letter saying the 'salary continuation'
        is considered wages, they want the UI $ back plus penalties and
        suspension from ever getting UI for 3 years. The company won't
        help you now in writing a letter saying it was severance. Everyone
        else who was laid off and did the same thing, doesnt have that
        the EDD breathing down their necks. I STFW of EDD's site. The
        info says the case is hopeless.
        \_ Even severance is considered salary in terms of EDD's view.
           Your unemployment benefit starts only when your severance
           runs out.  I think you are f*cked.
        \_ What is salary continuation exactly?  -- new to workforce
        \_ hack their system already, jeez, what kinda cs geek are you?
2003/5/8-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:28368 Activity:nil
5/7     My company is looking for experienced QA people.
        <DEAD>www.reactivity.com;<DEAD> email me as david@reactivity.com
        for details --dpassage
        \_ My company is also hiring also but it *really* sucks here and I
           don't want to inflict that on any of you.
           \_ it once sucked here as well, but hiring a couple of sodans
              fixed a lot.  Try it. --scotsman
              \_ I wouldn't do that to a fellow sodan.
           \_ see if you can get them to hire the asshole who keeps deleting
              everything interesting.  seriously. monitor the motd, get a login
              name, find the fucker on google, and submit a bogus resume.
              \_ no way.  they might hire him and then I'd be stuck with yet
                 another jerk off at work.
2003/3/14-15 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup, Computer/SW] UID:27691 Activity:moderate
3/13    My company is looking for an intern.  We're a financial software
        company, and we could use some extra hands to help us gather
        content for part of our website.  It's probably going to be
        unpaid, but you could learn a lot about finance, and it might lead
        to more interesting paid work after a while.
        /csua/pub/jobs/wsa.txt, or email me for details.  -dlwhite
        \_ Do I have to bring my own cigars?  This one time at band camp....
           \_ Cigars will be provided.  -dlwhite
              \_ Sweet!  I'm going for it!
        \_ isn't there something illegal about this
           \_ why should there be? unpaid internships are the _norm_ in
              many industries, including the one most sodans are in, if you
              go back 15-20 years.
              \_ you mean they didn't always pay $80k for summer interns?!
2003/3/4 [Reference/Tax, Industry/Jobs] UID:27593 Activity:high
3/3     I have been searching Google and also contacting some friends regarding
        the going rate for a 3 month contracting position that might become
        full time at a big internet company in Mountain View.  The duties
        consist of works for a backend Java and Java-related technologies
        developer.  I have about 5 years of working experience with about 2
        years of Java and Java-related technologies working experience.  I have
        a BS in EECS from Cal.  However, I have never done any contracting work
        before, but have a very broad set of skills, very capable, and very
        fast learner.  The numbers that I found seem a bit high for the current
        market; $100-$200/hr DOE.  Will anyone here point me to some recent
        surveys (2003 or late 2002) and/or provide some comments based on their
        own (or people that know) experiences and also how to best negotiate
        while keeping the door open for the full time conversion?  Thanks!!
        \_ holy sh*t that's a lot of money
           \_ no it isnt.
        \_ DOE is the key.  A fresh-out-of-college type should be happy with
           $40/hr.  A senior with a decade of seasoning and reasonably
           being a contractor so they *have* to charge what looks like an
           obscene amount of money to make it worth it.  The guy I replaced
           was making $300/hr but by in the last few months he was only doing
           an hour or two a day.  Sometimes none.  His only duty was doing
           interviews to repalce himself.  My salary?  20% of his rate plus
           some minor benefits.  If they like you and need you, they'll convert
           your expensive contractor ass as fast as possible, so don't worry
           about that part.  See if you can get them to blink first by making
           an offer or stating a range or something.  If not, then say that
           you'd like $X (I suggest $200/hr) but that the rate really isn't
           the issue since your goal is to convert to FTE after a reasonably
           short time period.
           agressive skills maintainance can expect substantially more.
           Generally we take the FTE equivalent and multiply by 0.75 to get
           a reasonable rate for short term contractors.
                \_ that assumes full time employee
        \_ here's why: contractors get screwed on taxes and benefits and are
           the first to go when heads roll and a bunch of other badness about
           \_ screwed on benefits: true.  screwed on head roll: true
              screwed on taxes, not even close.  Self employment tax comes
              out exactly the same as regular exempt employees making the
              same amount of $$$.
           \_ They suggested a range of $60-$65/hr.  They are really
              low-balling me then? -op
              \_ I've read $1/hour for every $1K/year you'd make on salary.
                 \_ Industry standard is 0.6 to 0.75 these days. -hiring mgr
                \_ As a contractor, you need to cover your own benefits and
                   unemployment insurance (i.e., savings).
                   $1.5-$2/hour for every $1k/year is where I start.
                   \_ assuming you contract for 2k hours per year, this works
                      out to 3 to 4x regular salary for a contract.  i did 3x
                      in '98 '99, and i was close to 4x '00 '01.  i'm down to
                      hmmm 2.5x now.  where are you getting contracts today
                      that are in the 3 to 4x range?
              \_  $60-$65/hour seems really fair now adays.  I've seen rates
                  as low as $40/hour for some senior level contract gigs.
                  Email me if you wanna take it offline --chris
              \_ That's really low for contracting.  I suggest you ask them
                 flat out when/IF you'd convert to FTE and what the salary
                 would be.  If you like the final salary, get them to put it
                 in writing that after X months (I suggest 2-3 max) at their
                 super low-ball rate, they convert you to FTE at the previously
                 agreed upon salary.  If they'll do that and you're happy with
                 the FTE, then consider the contract rate as a sort of
                 probationary period and just do it at whatever rate.  If they
                 won't do that, then your odds of converting are near zero and
                 you should ask for more.  --same long winded person from above
                 \_ This is a silly idea.  If they were willing to commit to
                    a full time hire, they wouldn't be using a contractor
                    probation period in the first place.
                    \_ C2H is pretty common.  I'd be surprised if less than
                       a majority lead to conversion, or end if you suck.
                 \_ Only if you're looking for FTE....
              \_ The big hit is self-employment tax. Basically, you pay your
                 own payroll tax. Plus paying for benes. And you're only
                 paid after you bill. Overhead costs (not including time to
                 do your own paperwork) is easily 30%, less if you want to
                 skimp on benes (ie. covered by spouse insurance, etc.). So
                 $60/hr contract -> $42/hr FTE -> $80K yearly + minor benes.
                 \_ Wrong!  Most bene packages are only worth about $10k/year
                    or less (usually a lot less).
                    \_ Cost to employer is on order of 30% of salary - this
                       includes benefits, sick/vacation/holiday, 401k match
                       if present, and their share of the employment tax.
                       Also, no one is listing 1099 vs W2 contracting.
        \_ Is anyone even able to get a contract job in the past few years?
                -ax
           \_  They are popping up more often now.  I've still got a few
               friends recruiting and that's what I'm seeing/hearing.  --chris
           \_ I just updated my job search profile for the first time in 18
              months and got my first set of new job emails this morning.  It
              looks like 1998 out there for full timers!
2003/2/26-3/3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:27540 Activity:nil
2/26    FactSet... hiring... full-time and interns... San Mateo and NYC
        mail for details                        - rory
        \_ Anger... rising...  rage... taking over...
           \_ I don't get it
              \_ Some weirdos get upset when people post job ops on the motd.
              \_ Watch the movie 'Mystery Men'
                 \_ Pull my finger.
2003/2/26 [Transportation/Bicycle, Industry/Jobs] UID:27528 Activity:high
2/25    I'm a lazy 5'8" sysadm, is a kawa ninja 500 big enough for me?
        \_ almost related - I'll be selling my bmw 850R soon, and cheap.
           Showing age (72k), but motor is solid.  Reasonable first bike,
           good commuter.  was 130 this year for 100/300 liability. -jor
        \_ yes
        \_ on a related note, how much do you bikers pay for insurance?
           - biker-wannabe
           \_ depends entirely on cost/year of the bike, displacement, and
              your driving record/experience/training.  anywhere from $150
              per year to $3000 per year.                -- caliban
        \_ I have a 2001 Ninja 500 (aka EX500) for sale.  Mail me if you're
           interested.  Was my first bike too, glad I didn't go get anything
           more.  -nevman
                \_ are you a sysadm? how much you weigh?
           i am very comfortable on it.
                                                                -- caliban
        \_ sysadm, hmm, let me fire up the old abacus.  First question is
           how many tubs of butter do you eat per day?
        \_ that depends on what you are looking for in a bike.  the ninja/ex
           500 is a perfect starter bike for a new rider who is interested
           in sport bikes.  you'll want to replace it, most likely, in a
           year or two max.  i'm 5'8" and can fit just fine on any sport
           bike, though something shorter like the ex 500 (or250) makes
           for more confident learning.  i currently ride a BMW R1150GS,
           a huge bike, and though 5'8" is about the limit for that bike,
           i am very comfortable on it. -- caliban
                \_ are you a sysadm? how much you weigh?
        \_ sysadm, eh?  Hmm, let me fire up the old abacus.  First question
           is how many tubs of butter do you eat per day?
        \_ my roomate's 5'7" and he when he rides a 500EX he could barely
           touch the ground with his toes (30.5" height on the 500). Does
           that mean he can't ride taller bikes like the ZX-6R (32.5" height)?
2003/2/13-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:27403 Activity:very high
2/13    I had a managment job without a manager title.  My VP refused to
        make me a manager on the ground that "I didn't have enough years
        of experience".  I did all the management work, including hiring.
        Now I am looking for a new job with a manager title, how do I
        explain to my prospect employer about the situation when they
        challenge me that I didn't have a manager title before?
        \_ Put on your resume what you did. But you will still have
           tough time getting a job with "manager" in the title,
           especially in this job market.
        \_ My company's the opposite. Since all salaries are frozen,
           they've been throwing around titles like crazy. People haven't
           moved up the org chart, but we randomly create new positions w/
           fancy titles... pretty weak. we rule.
        \_ How many people did you really hire, and how many projects
           did you manage?
        \_ Put in your valid title and then in parens put "Acting Manager."
           Be sure to note all managerial tasks you performed in description.
           Of course, you're assuming that someone will check references...
           Have someone who worked "under" you as a reference.
           \_ I have done all this.  I just don't know how to answer
              questions like, "why didn't they just make you a manager?"
              What's the best way to answer that?  Be honest and said
              because the VP was an idiot and discriminated me against
              my young age? I don't think that would go too well? -op
              \_ you can be honest without sounding like you hated the VP
                 personally or whining about being "discriminated against".
                 just say that the policy at your company required a manager
                 to have a certain number of years of experience to have
                 the title but that your responsibilities were the same
                 as a manager.
              \_ "Headcount problem." They felt they didn't have the resources
                 to make my title official. It's a dodge, but a useful one.
                 Also note you can provide references to support it.
2003/2/12-7/5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:27385 Activity:low
2/13    http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/sfc/sad/8608525.html
        Contract/part time/backup sysadmin for http://snapfish.com.
        I'm the full time guy.  Send in your resume now if interested.
        You can email me with questions but I'm not the primary resume
        contact.  Use the jobs@ address.  -reiffin
        UPDATE: the resumes I've seen so far all suck.  If you've got some
        experience with Solaris, Linux, 3ware, raid on linux, raid on anything
        else, Veritas volume manager, Netapp (any model), and want this
        contract, then send me your resume and I'll get your name in the
        post-HR hat.  If you've already sent in a resume to jobs@, it didn't
        get to me.  Please send resume via me this time.
        \_ Is that job still kickback - hide in the office and surf for
           porn all day?
           \_ still?  It's never been like that.  -reiffin
              \_ I was offered (briefly) your job in Aug, 2001.  It was
                 that kickback.  Probably why they ended up getting acquired.
                 \_ How were you "briefly" offered the job?  I was hired
                    Aug 2001, btw.  It wasn't kickback then, it isn't now.
                    The contracting thing may turn out to be easy money,
                    though.  -reiffin
        \_ obridicule
           \_ obstfu
2003/2/11-7/5 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:27365 Activity:moderate
2/10    Lyris is hiring (downtown berkeley)
        http://csua.org/u/929
        \_ Any non-senior code positions?  Also, I know someone in the CSUA
           works for Lyris, and I recall him making allusions to the Lyris
           code base being pretty gnarly.  Care to confirm or refute that?
           \_ Not for now.  Currently only senior candidates are being
              considered.  The code base has in the recent past been in
              much gnarlier states, but this has been from understaffing -
              a problem which is finally being addressed. --scotsman
           \_ no one trains interns anymore - at least not for loooow wage
2003/2/6-7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:27327 Activity:high
2/6     I know none of you grumpy, jaded dot-com free market
        Jew-bating hentai obsessed bitches care, but just in case,
            \_ You mean "baiting".
            \_ Acutally I meant "batting".  They make such a nice crunchy
               sound when you smack them with a bat.
        KALX is having its Spring recruitment meeting today,
        even people on campus give me the cold shoulder, you know
        how it's almost common courtesy to at least take a flyer
        from someone if they offer it, as long as they're not obviously
        people the Moonies shipped over in bondage?  Some people
        won't even take my flyers.  Maybe I have a huge oozing
        sore on my lip that I am unaware of.  As a joke I gave
        a few flyers to that crazy (or maybe he's not so crazy,
        he dropped the whole act and thanked me) guy with the
        laminated signs who shouts all day in a really annoying
        voice "LLAMA PACK MULE!!!", I'm hoping he shows up.
        Thursday, 7:30pm, 145 Dwinelle - danh
        \_In this day and age what the hell are you doing with paper flyers?
        Learn how to SPAM!!!
        \_ No it isn't common courtesy.  It kills trees and fills the land
           fills with colored crap that will stay there forever.  I think
           most people learn "the don't fuck me with, I'm not taking your
           stupid flier, you don't exist in my universe" stare by the end
           of their second year at the latest.
           \_ yep. sometime sophomore year sounds right.
2003/2/3-4 [Industry/Jobs] UID:27293 Activity:very high
2/3     A friend of mine is looking to hire a SW Eng to do some network mgmt
        work. It's a small consulting firm and he's thinking $70-75k for
        someone w/ a few years experience. Does this sound about right or low?
        \_ OP HERE: I meant network management SOFTWARE work. sorry.
        \_ So many trolls...so few trollops.
        \_ given today's economy, i'd say that's about right. else, it'd
           be a little on the low side for a few years experience.
        \_ Depends on what you want. If its write custom MIBs its probably
           okay. If its write your own agent then he should offer more.
        \_ what's a good way to learn about MIBs / SNMP etc?
           \_ don't go into that field.  Writing MIBs and doing SNMP is
              new grad stuff.  I used to hire interns or cheap contractors
              to do the work.  It's brain dead grunt work.
        \_ Since when do software enginners to network management?
           \_ network management as in network management software.
        \_ Full time or contract?  That's ok for someone with 0-2 or maybe
           0-3 if they didn't do much but he's scraping.
           \_ Fulltime (to do contract work). Oh, he's also got a Master's
              from Cal. Yes, he's kinda scraping.
        \_ That should get someone with a few years experience. Not really
           a senior person though. Look on some of the hiring websites to
           get a range for what people are offering.
           \- this is not a direct answer, but in my experience a lot of
              what you need for network stuff depends a bunch on scale
              issues. what might work for an office for a couple of classCs
              and 500 machines with 100mbit and not a lot of diversity
              [read broken tcp stacks on weird embedded devices] would not
              fly for mutiple class Bs, with unpredictable traffic or
              really high badwidth links where you need detailed knowledge
              of say ethernet drivers or network subsystem implementation.
              pehaps this is less the case in "network management" which
              may have narrower scope. --psb
2003/1/30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:27240 Activity:high
1/29    More about jobs: just had a very nice phone screen with HR at (don't
        need the competition, thanks) who said her perception of the job
        market is that things aren't as 'soft' as they have been and it isn't
        as easy to hire good people as it was only a few months ago.  Cross
        your fingers and keep sending those resumes.  Avoid recruiters.  Good
        luck to all of us!
        \_ What specialty?
           \_ Unix Guru
              \_ are you the guy who needed to do a man nice?
                 \_ No, I'm one of the guys who told him to stop asking to be
                    spoon fed, stop logging in as root and go learn something.
                    \_ oh you were a meannie.  - man nice guy fan #1
                    \_ Who are you?
              \_ Tres cool. Let us know $$ after you score.
2003/1/29-2/2 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:27235 Activity:nil 50%like:25736 57%like:28180
1/29    Undergrad research position available, /csua/pub/jobs/roc
2003/1/29 [Computer/Companies/Google, Industry/Jobs] UID:27232 Activity:very high
1/28    Anybody get an unsolicited "I just found your resume"-type job
        opening email from Google lately? I just got something that
        seems plausible but can't tell if its just some spammer's
        attempt to get my email address.
        \_ don't trust it. google doesn't hire. everyone there is a volunteer.
        \_ May well be, but then again, I finally got a job when a
           recruiter mailed me up out of the blue.  Still don't know how
           she found my resume, don't care either.
           \_ everyone who ever had your resume has resold it dozens of times.
              \_ Hope no one paid much for it.  It's free on my web site.
                 In any event, I'm not complaining about a 6 fig job.
        \_ probably not an email spammer, but maybe a headhunteror or a wierdo.
        \_ There is a message envelope, right?  Doesn't that sufficiently show
           that it came from Google?  Google is hiring. -mgoodman
           \_ Maybe... maybe not:
              http://csua.org/u/893 (fucked company)
              \_ This is an incoherent rant, even by fc standards.
                 \_ fc has no standards.
           \_ Will you submit my resume for me?
        \_ You can reply to these things if you want but it won't matter.
           These are 99.999% likely to be some sort of bottom feeder recruiter
           types but replying will *not* get you a job and may in fact ruin
           your chances if they fax blast you to 5000+ potential employers.
           I no longer reply to these people as I've never gotten so much as
           an email reply back.
           \_ i don't think you have enough statistics to state that number to
              five digits.
              \_ You are mistaken.  We adhere strictly to 5 Nines quality
                 standards.
              \_ having dealt with millions of these cretins, I believe I do
                 have five9s quality data to backup that statement's
                 statistical validity.  Even if I'm only four9s correct, it
                 still won't get you a job and might ruin your chances of
                 doing so.  Just delete.  Do not reply to these things.
2003/1/27-28 [Industry/Jobs] UID:27210 Activity:high
1/27    How accurate is http://salary.com in this market?
        \_ Seems about right to me. Read the job descriptions though,
           not just the titles.
2003/1/27 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:27209 Activity:high
1/26    I asked my two managers (why do I have two? for double the work!)
        \_ Go one manager up and get one of your managers fired.
           Sounds management-top-heavy:  "too many chiefs, not enough
           (American) Indians."  Managers are essentially overhead.
        to hire another sysadmin to help with the workload they
        are forcing on me.  I asked for an SA with experience and
        who knows some Perl.  Am I being unfair to expect an SA to know Perl?
        They are trying to get me to accept 3 internal candidates of
        which only one even knows bourne shell programming. I feel
        they are trying to dump someone on me which will only make
        my workload worse. They refuse to hire someone external.
        How do I convince my boss(es) of the validity of my concerns?
        I have one meeting with them tomorrow (Monday) before they decide.
        \_ I can't really help you with convincing pointy-hairs about anything,
           but I'd be surprised if any mid to high-level sysadmin didn't
           profess at least familiarity with perl.  On the other hand, if
           they're a decent shell programmer it won't take long to pick it
           up.  -tom
           \_ They will be paid $80K/year. Is that considered
              low or mid level nowadays?
              \_ In this climate, probably mid level.  Can you make the
                 economic case for it?  Perversely enough, even pointy hairs
                 with poor analytical skills tend to buy well reasoned
                 arguments when it comes to money, provided you walk them
                 through slowly.  Something like this:
                 a) You are overburdened.
                 b) This is costing your company money.
                   i. There are a fair number of studies that show employees
                      are more productive when they are not scrambling to
                      smash too many tasks into their day-- find one.  In the
                      worst case, you quit, and they incur the cost of hiring
                      a replacement, which some HR wonks claim this runs as
                      high as 25% of hiring salary (presumably your salary
                      is greater than that of the new sysadmin they will
                      hire/transfer)
                   ii.There are other arguments you can make to support the
                      idea that overworking you will cost your company money
                      in the long run.  Just make sure you don't end up
                      threatening to quit unless you're willing to make good
                      on it.  And don't shoot yourself in the foot by somehow
                      making it look like it's your fault that you are
                      overburdened.
                 c) Thus, you need a junior or co-sysadmin
                 d) If the new sysadmin has any holes in his skill set, then
                    it will obviously fall to you to train him.  Training
                    the new recruit adds to your overburdened status, and
                    though it benefits the new guy, it takes away from time
                    that both of you could be doing productive work that
                    benefits the company at large.
                 And on that note, I may be looking for a job, I know perl,
                 and have references that can vouch for this.  If you do end
                 up looking outside your company, and you'd like to chat
                 further, drop me an email. -dans
               \_ In this climate i'd say someone already there for the last
                  year who is making 80K would be "mid-level".  You can
                  definiteley hire "senior level"  sys admins in this market
                  for 80K.  You CERTAINLY should be able to get someone
                  who knows at least some PERL.  Also, if this was 1 year
                  ago, i'd tell you that you should quit any place that
                  doesn't let YOU as the only Unix admin, have a pretty
                  damn big say in hiring another one.
                  \_ For 80K they should write perl while juggling hot spares
                     on the main file server and hand-crafting packets to get
                     them through the shitty router...  Call me.  I'd love to
                     do just a little perl on top of mid-level SA stuff for
                     80K. --scotsman
                     \_ Starving people are always willing to do whatever while
                        they're starving.  You'll quit the moment the economy
                        improves.  Desperate people stink of it.
                        \_ Um.  80K for midlevel SA is far from starving.
                           hell, it's about average for a senior, non-manager
                           admin.
                           admin. --scotsman
                           \_ Missing point: he's desperate to work for 80k now
                           \_ ...and he's a sysadmin.  enough said.
                              \_ So he gets to manage liquidating capital
                                 equipment?
                              but will quit the moment the economy turns around
                              in the slightest.
                              \_ when the mean goes up to, what, 81k?  if i
                                 like the position, i stay.  the job i have now
                                 was out of sheer desparation, and for a while
                                 it was hell, and i would've taken the first
                                 opportunity that came up.  Over the last 3
                                 months because of changes in management and
                                 raises, it's gotten much better and I'm happy
                                 to stay.  Avg. salaries don't rise as quickly
                                 as you seem to think.  Certainly not enough
                                 to risk my livelihood at "the moment the
                                 economy turns around in the slightest."
                                 --scotsman
                                 \_ You still reek of desperation.  Sorry, but
                                    if it shows on the motd, you're not making
                                    it through an interview until you mellow.
                                    \_ i agree. he should call em up and say
                                       "let me hear you beg, bitch."
                        \_ Dude, you work for a company that pays inflated
                           salaries in a down market.  Don't act so smug.
                           \_ Missing point: he's desperate to work for 80k now
                              but will quit the moment the economy turns around
                              in the slightest.
                           \_ I bet you were one of those bitches who bragged
                              about the six digits they were making in the
                              boom time.
2002/12/20-21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:26877 Activity:moderate
12/20   Christine the hiring beaach, do you look at GPA?
        \_ Way to impress your recruiter!
        \_ That's "biiiiyotch!" to you, kid!
2002/12/20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:26869 Activity:kinda low
12/19   Sigh... more resume help for motd readers: you may have graduated
        with a 3.918/4.0 but your resume sucks.  No one wants to read prose.
        Keep it to simple bullet points.  Each job posting online will get
        roughly 400 resumes.  No one reads full sentences.  Make it easy for
        the reader.  You get about 0.75 seconds to convince someone to skim
        the rest of your resume.  Harsh?  Yes, but true.  Cut out all that
        crap and try again.
        \_ ...and you want help people with 4.0 gpa's who somehow make it
           all the way through college with no communication skills or common
           sense why?  fuck them.  if they can't communicate well enough
           to tell you why you should hire them they probably aren't useful
           to you.
           \_ most EECS majors probably meet this description
        \_ http://xmlresume.sourceforge.net
           Won't help much with the brevity problem, but possibly useful.
        \_ GPA is irrelevant after X number of years in the industry. RIGHT?
           \_ That X is probably 10 years.  If you're a newgrad or with 5-7
              years experience, I do look at GPA if I have 10 people who are
              equally good at coding.  If two people both are good at solving
              problems and one has a high GPA and the other has a low GPA,
              which one would you hire?  GPA tells me that the person is more
              responsible and disciplined.  Skills are the most important
              quality of course.  But all else being equal, high GPA wins.
              \_ X=10? I stopped putting that crap on my resume after four
                 years and emphasized references, work experience, and
                 projects. Much better indicators of how you'll do at the job.
              \_ I agree with the above.  X=10 is silly.  After 10 years if you
                 ask me my gpa after seeing TEN YEARS of work experience and
                 think what I did as a child somehow matters TEN YEARS later
                 then I'll happily keep looking because working for such an
                 inflexible and thoughtless PHB would suck big time.
2002/11/27-28 [Industry/Jobs] UID:26652 Activity:kinda low
11/27   job openings in SF:
        http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/joblistings.nsf/employment?openview&expandview
        \_ no slav jews need apply
           \_ eh?
2002/11/5-6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:26424 Activity:low
11/5    How is the job market now for senior developers?
        \_ My company has one opening for director and three for senior level,
           but no opening for junior level.
           \_ yermom's always got openings for them.
           \_ Which company?
              \_ http://www.efi.com
                 \_ Is Efi still running the show there?  He's pretty
                    annoying.
2002/10/25-26 [Computer/Companies/Ebay, Industry/Jobs] UID:26313 Activity:moderate
10/24   Anyone works at eBay?  I have a technical interview with them
        and would like to know in advance on what type of questions might
        be asked.
        \_ All your base are belong to us!
        \_ Just be arrogant, like say "If you're asking questions like that,
        you must really be desperate!" Or, "are you serious?" Even better,
        before you agree to go in, tell them you've been offered every job
        you've interviewed for, and are therefore requesting a technical test
        via email before conceding to a in-person interview, to make it worth
        your while. Worked for me. Wtf could ebay possible need anyway? None
        your while. Worked for me. Wtf could ebay possibly need anyway? None
        of this is rocket science.
2002/10/18-19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:26247 Activity:moderate
10/18   Friday afternoon.  work sucks.
        \_ could be worse. it's been lay-off central around here for the
           last two days.
           \_ last night I dreamt that my boss told me I'd be out of a job
              after january. But I was supposed to finish my stuff before
              then.
              \_ Funny--that actually happened to a co-worker of mine.
        \_ could be worse, you could have quit your job and gone to
           grad skool and then discovered that you had forgotten how
           much you hated school and that work is infinitely better
           than putting up with shitty profs, boring course work and
           and tiresome homework.
           \_ And by the time you get back into the real world all the hot
              asian chicks turned into 35+ year old prunes.
              \_ Funny--that actually happened to a friend of mine.
2002/10/15-16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:26192 Activity:moderate
10/15   If psb were laid off from LBL and replaced by two of his hindu
        buddies from india, would he still be so gunho about H1bs?
        Yes:
        No:
        \_ "gung ho"
        \_ It wouldn't go like that.  It'd be psb replaced by 1 H1b who can
           barely speak english, has a resume which is nothing but lies, and
           works for 50% less but can't actually do anything useful.  I loved
           working at Indian run dotcoms.  They'd pass over super qualified
           americans, go out of their way to bring in an H1b buddy, and then
           spend the rest of their time covering for him because he didn't
           know *any* of the things he claimed to know on his resume.
           \_ You too? I thought that was just at my startup.
              \_ I was at more than 1 like this.  It was the way it worked.
                 My favorite was a small software place that had a job listing
                 that read like my resume.  Despite having 10 years experience
                 with much larger places the VP Eng told the HR girl I wasn't
                 experienced enough.  I was shocked until I looked over the
                 company bio page for management.  All Indian.  Then it made
                 sense.  When I last checked they were out of business so good
                 riddance to racists in the industry.
                 \_ for great justice!
2002/10/2 [Reference/BayArea, Industry/Jobs] UID:26075 Activity:insanely high
10/2    http://csua.org/u/36b
        "... full-time longshoremen earn an average salary of $80,000 a year,
        while the most experienced foremen average $167,000."
        And they still shut down all the west coast docks and tumble the
        already bad economy in order to demand more.
        \_ hmm, if they so importent that the can hurt the economy that
        \_ hmm, if they so important that the can hurt the economy that
           simply maybe the DESERVE high salaries.
           \_ The work is important, the workers are not.  It's grunt work.
              Any high schooler with 4 hours training could do it.  People who
              stock grocery shelves are important, too.  You think they should
              get $80k starting and $167k for 'experienced' stock shelvers?
        \_ The docks locked out the workers, not the other way around.
           Train harder.
           \_ You really buy that "we didn't slow down; we were just trying to
              follow the safety procedures" crap?
              \_ And you really buy the "there was an undeclared slowdown"?
           \_ With average pays at $80K and $167K, why do they deserver
              immunity to competition from non-union workers?
                 \_ Duh.  Go read *anything* on the net about union tactics.
                    This is classic strategy.  The counter punch lock out is
                    a new response, though.  Jeeze, I know it's the motd but
                    if you know *nothing* about a topic, take 5 seconds to
                    look on google before posting and wasting all those bits.
              \_ They cite the death of five workers over the previous
                 months. You know what? If my boss started hedging on my
                 contract, I'd start following all of his stupid rules too.
                 \_ They're OSHA rules.  If all OSHA rules were followed, the
                    economy would collapse *and* people would die on their
                    job trying to follow them.
        \_ You're missing the point. They don't necessarily want more money,
           they want to keep their jobs. The companies want to hire nonunion
           folks to handle some of the new tech going in. The new tech will
           eliminate union jobs. The union want the company to put union
           folks in those new jobs instead of having them laid off.
           \_ With average pays at $80K and $167K in this economy (and I bet
                 \_ sure I'd prefer that they trained me.  Hell, I'd prefer that
                    they paid me for doing nothing at all.  But why should
                    they *have* to?
              they get OT pay as well), why do they deserver immunity to
              competition from non-union workers and layoff?
              \_ Ignore the union bit for the moment.  Would you prefer that
                 your employer trained you for new technology or just outright
                 hired someone else instead?  okay, bring the union back into
                 this, they work to make sure this doesnt happen, to make sure
                 you are not just discarded because your employer doesnt want
                 to provide relevant training.
                 \_ sure I'd prefer that they trained me.  Hell, I'd prefer
                    that they paid me for doing nothing at all.  But why
                    should they *have* to?
                    \_ so you dont mind being disposable.
                       \_ He didn't say that at all.  He said he'd prefer not
                          being disposable, in fact but doesn't see why they
                          should be *forced* to not dispose of him.  Please
                          learn to read basic English.  Thanks.
        \_ my parents are/were both union workers, so I'm biased,
           I wonder if the rest of you feel this way?
           \_ That you're biased?  Sure!  Why not?  Ok, I feel you're biased.
              Happy now?
        \_ I'm a union (tech) worker, but I hate the goddamned union. It's
           retarded that these fat fucks can get by on their skills that havent
           been updated since the DOS days and havent bothered picking up
           skills that theyve been taught in training. and since we have the
           same job title, we get paid the same, so i get paid the same as
           lazy fat fucks.
           \_ You know nothing and more nothing about this issue but it's the
              motd so who cares?
2002/9/25-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:26002 Activity:high
9/25    Now what?  Maybe they'll go pay per view....
        link:www.miami.com/mld/miami/4145004.htm
        \_ "Illegally paying a person to fight."  I don't get it. How is this
           different from professional boxing?
           \_ professional boxing is licensed.  -tom
                \_ You are intentionally being funny right?  I had assumed you
                   were - and thought that a clever comment - until i
                   remembered that you are a big gov. liberal and may well
                   actually consider that an important difference. -crebbs
                   \_ uh, it's fairly important to the question I was
                      responding to, which was how bumfight is different than
                      professional boxing (that is, why the bumfighters are
                      getting arrested).  -tom
                        \_ I know people are stupid, but i'd be willing to
                           wager that tOP is aware that pro boxing is licensed.
                           \_ I wouldn't...
                           \_ what else is there for him to "get"?  -tom
2002/9/19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25938 Activity:high
9/18    So how should I write a "thank you" letter? any good examples on
        the web? Is it really that important in an interview?
        \- "hello, special announcement: ok tnx. ok bye --<initials>" --psb
        \_ Yes, it is highly recommended that you do so, and right away
           before they can forget you. Thank them for their time,
           and briefly remind them how excited you are about their co.
           and that you think you'd make a great fit with their co, or
           something like that.
           \_ is this appropriate after a phone interview, or only
              after a full proper interview? e-mail or snail mail?
              \_ usually a phone interview leads directly to an in person.
                 if yours didn't then it's not a good sign.  never let a phone
                 interview end without asking "so, what's the next step?" or
                 something like that.
              \_ if it's a screening interview, then prob not. a face-to-
                 face interview is a must. most interviewee's don't send
                 thank you's. so set yourself apart from the crowd.
                 \_ make sure you talk about your lofty goals and make
                    absolutely sure you tell them how you got your
                    nickname.
                    \_ Yeah totally.  I forgot that part.  Esp. the nickname.
              \_ If your phone screen didn't end with someone setting up an
                 in-person interview then it's hopeless anyway.  Always end a
                 phone interview with a "So, what's the next step?" type of
                 question.  And no, you don't generally do thank you's for
                 phone interviews without exceptional reasons like maybe the
                 entire interview process is by phone.
2002/9/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25905 Activity:insanely high
9/17    Informal survey.
        I have a full-time job and I work
        under 30 hours per week: ..
        30 to 35 hours per week:
        35 to 40 hours per week: ....
        39 < work < 41 per week: .
        40 to 45 hours per week: ......
        45 to 50 hours per week: ..
        50 to 60 hours per week:
        60 to 70 hours per week: .. (damn it...)
                                 \_ why are you guys working so hard and are
                                    you getting compensated appropriately?
        over 70 hours:
        \_ And my commute takes
           no time at all (I work from home):
           less than 10 minutes: ..
           10 to 30 minutes: .
           10 to 30 minutes: ...... (yay!)
           45 to 60 minutes: ..
           30 to 45 minutes:
           45 to 60 minutes: .... (assuming this is one-way)
           60 to 90 minutes: ...
           more than 90 minutes:
           no time at all (I live at work):
        \_ Do you subtract lunch or does that count as "work"?
           What about email/motd breaks?
           \_ If you're on their clock, you're at work no matter what you're
              actually doing.  We're doing an office move soon which will add
              10 minutes each way to my BART trip (extra walking).  That 20
              minutes is coming straight off my chair warming time.
              \_ What about a quickie with the hot HR manager?
2002/9/3-4 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25762 Activity:very high 63%like:25761
9/3     Salary survey, please be honest. No need to mention company if you
        don't want to.  How much are you getting? doing what? How many years
        how experience? Thanks.
        \_ Salary survey person, you need to take salary+bonus+other benes
           into account as a total package.  When you break it down you're
           seeing the trees, missing the forest.
        \_ Two or three times a week, more if I have time to hit the bars on
           weekdays. Years experience? Going on 15 (started in 7th grade). As
           for doing what... that's for yermom to know, and for you to find
           out.
           \_ you can't claim experience back to 7th grade and expect to be
              taken seriously.  experience does not mean "the first time i
              touched my dad's computer".  it means "years i was paid by some
              stranger to do tech work and paid taxes on it"
              \_ Does it include co-op or intern time before graduation?
        \_ $74k software test engineer, 4 yr (I am satisfied cause I am
           a dumb, lazy slacker waiting for the next job change opportunity)
        \_ $75k, software test engineer, 4 yrs, midwest (I am satisfied
        \_ $74k, software test engineer, 4 yrs, midwest (I am satisfied
           cause I am a dumb, lazy slacker, totally uninterested in what
           I am doing and waiting for the next job change opportunity)
        \_ $65k IT 8 years...  but just because i was desparate and took their
           first offer.
        \_ $27k + tuition, grad stud, 5 years
        \_ 18k/yr + tuition  grad student
        \_ Embarassed to say... $77K, 7 yr exp. I know I'm getting jipped.
           \_ if you're doing more than perl and vb scripting, you should
              likely have crossed 6 figures.               -mice
           \_ how much do you think you should be getting paid?  How much
             do you think others with your experience are getting paid?
        \_ $85k software test engineer, 4+ years.
        \_ $100k, IT management, 5 years
        \_ $108k, 9 years device driver and other low-level software stuff.
           Is it too low, compared to the 5-yr IT guy making $100k above?
        \_ $75k, software test engineer, wireless systems, 4 yrs, midwest.
           I am satisfied cause I am a dumb, lazy, slacker, totally
           uninterested in what I am doing, and waiting for the next job
           change opportunity.  Group used to develop a load testing tool
           which was fun, but next generation of tool moved to India.
        \_ $75k, software engineer, 2 years. but i haven't had a raise in
           a year and a half (salary freeze)... bitches.
        \_ $15k, programmer, shanghai, china
        \_ Fucked in the ass daily, Perl coding, 5 years.
                \_ is this considered a company perk?
        \_ $120k. $5k bonus.  10+ years.  Unix Guru.
        \_ $93k, software engineer (mainly kernel networking), 5 years.
           $3k raise and $5.5k bonus last year.
        \_ $48k IT/router guy. 40hr/wk. work for san diego county. slack job,
           get 38 days off / year.
        \_ $75K, Back-end server software, 6 years
2002/9/3-4 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25761 Activity:high 63%like:25762
9/3     Bonus survey, please be honest.  No need to mention company if you
        don't want to.  How much is your yearly bonus as a percentage of
        your salary?  Please specify the # of years of experience.
        For me, 15% and 7 years of experience.   Thanks.
        \_ up to 10% based on "merit"
        \_ what yearly bonus
        \_ 0% and 7 yrs exp.
        \_ 0% company-wide regardless of experience.
        \_ 0% and > 5 yrs exp.
        \_ scale eight used to do 7% for 3+ (with 4% salary raises)
           \_ scale eight did salary raises?  not while I was there
              \_ they did in the first year and a half.
              \_ were you there more than 3 months?
        \_ Well it depends. Some year I received a 45% bonus (as a 5th year)
           and some year I received none. These days it's too darn hard to
           project what's 'normal' in bonuses. I work for a small company so
           the amount varies widely. If you want my last year's number, it's
           0% and 6 yrs exp.
        \_ From 3 years ago: ~ax/pub/salarysurvey
           \_ Three years ago? During the Y2K rush? What good is that?
                \_ it's still a gold rush for some folks.  remember it was
                   the people who sold shovels and jeans that made gazillions,
                   not the prospectors....
        \_ 3% raise mainly because I went up a job grade and probably didn't
           meet the minimum salary for the new level
        \_ 14%, 6 years, Back-end server software
2002/8/15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25568 Activity:nil
8/14    All these bickering over degrees and jobs fails to take into account
        into one critical fact:  most jobs people get is through personal
                                                      \_ ^H^Hare
                                                         jobs is a plural noun
                                                         -motd grammar nazi
        connections.  Only newgrads have to go into an interview "cold".
        For people with experience, this is hardly ever a problem.
        \_ correction: most *good* jobs.
        \_ I think you will find that, as the economy fails, even people
           with experience will be forced to interview cold more often. We've
           had almost ten years where that was not the case so you may not
           have seen this for yourself, yet. -- wrinkled old crone
        \_ No.  Most tech people don't meet enough people in a position to
           hire them later for something else.  For the most part, knowing
           someone will get you past HR and that's it.  You're still cold in
           the interview.
        \_ Shucks.  I guess I imagined my 2nd job out of school.  Please, make
           sweeping assertions like this and you don't have a chance of being
           credible.  Maybe that's why you're still in school.
           \_ maybe you're an antisocial loser that doesn't have any
              personal skills?
              \_ Or maybe I left the Bay Area before the economy imploded.
        \_ I jumped ship with my VP to my second job, so no HR nor interview,
           100% personal connection.  I posted to http://dice.com and got my third job
           thru HR and interview, so no personal connection nor head hunter.
2002/8/9 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25530 Activity:nil
8/8     Is there a technical reason why there exists a tradeoff between
        resolution in frequency and resolution in time? When I took
        EE120 with Kahn, he attributed it to Heisenberg Uncertainty,
        and although that involves a tradeoff too (velocity/location)
        I don't see how that explains the frequency/time tradeoff.
        Thanks.
        \_ Isn't it the idea that by "zooming in" on a unit of time,
           you're missing the "big picture" frequency?  Eg, mistaking the
           high frequency carrier wave in AM radio for the actual lower
           frequency signal?
        \_ Here is the crux of the problem, how can you resolve a 10 Hz
           signal if you observe for a mere 1 us?
        \_ The posters above give a good intuitive explanation of the
           time-frequency trade-off.  For a more technical explanation
           imagine that you want to measure some properties of a
           signal, s(t), through a finite time-slice.  You can get a
           finite time-slice via multiplying by a "boxcar", b(at), which
           is 1 for -.5 < t < .5 and 0 elsewhere.  In frequency, multiplying
           by b(at) is convolving with (1/a)B(f/a) where B(f) is a sinc.
           Choosing a to be large gets you very fine time-resolution, but
           makes the sinc sidelobes wide smearing out X(f) and giving poor
           frequency resolution.  Choosing a to be small makes the sinc narrow
           and reduces the smearing in frequency, but gives you poor
           time-resolution since you are including a long time-interval
           of s(t).  There are many ways to do time-frequency analysis where
           instead of using a boxcar you use other functions, but you can't
           escape the tradeoff.  See wavelets for more info.  -emin
                \_ Thanks, but that's more of a way of just
                   demonstrating the tradoff. Is there a natural or
                   technical reason why it exists?
                   \_ I'm not sure what you mean by "a natural or technical
                      reason why it exists".  If you could be more
                      specific about what you find unsatisfying in the
                      previous three explanations, I could do better. -emin
                        \_ I'm just wondering why the tradeoff exists. Is
                           it simply because time and frequency are
                           are inverses? (i.e. t = 1/f)
                    \_ I tried to understand this in particular and EPR in
                       general at one time.  I went to a friend of mine
                       who now is a physics instructor at CAL (part time)
                       and he stepped me through a bunch of math (including
                       Lornez transformation) and I realized I was over my
                       head and gave up.
        \_ I found this confusing too. The equations that describe
           a particle position/momentum and the equations that describe
           the time/frequency resolution are the same equations. So,
           the phenomena of the time/frequency trade-off is called
           Heisenberg Uncertainty, not because there is some physical
           connection between particles and Fourier analysis, but because
           the math works out exactly the same.
2002/7/5 [Industry/Jobs, Finance/Shopping] UID:25283 Activity:very high
7/4     Just graduated, and the money situation is ok. So I'm thinking of
        just taking a little time off and relaxing at the folks house
        for a little while or until the economy picks up (not that I have a
        choice). (related to below post) What are some good (possibly open-
        source) projects I can dedicate some time to?  And what are the best
        ways to get started on these kinds of things?
        \_  Art is good.  Pick a medium and take a class.  If you really
            like it you'll get better.  Pick a form which takes a lot
            of time and organizational skill to thin your competition.
            Or enslave yourself to my film crew for extra cool points.
            We always have openings, and it's not pr0n.  -brain
        \_ Mistake.  Any "holes" in your resume will raise questions when you
           finally do decide to join the economy.  And btw, it might be years
           before it picks up again.  Say hi to yermom for me. (sorry, I had
                   to take the cheap shot, it was so there).
           \_ is saying, "I spent the last year working on open source
              projects" that bad?
              \_ Depends on how you say it. You make it seem that you took
                 the time off for a "good" reason. If it's shareware, make
                 it something that has a public release. If it's 3-6 months
                 off, it's acceptable to say you took time off to celebrate
                 graduation.
        \_ I'm doing this (sort-of) right now;  working on a part-time
           contract, setting up our apartment.  The hardest thing is to
           get used to relaxing and not feeling guilty about not working
           full-time.  I suggest taking some certification exams, since it's
        \_ i did have to explain where i was for a year.  I said, "Peace corps."
           even "Missionary work in Sierra Leon" works.
           probably nice weather outside to go prepare with a book in the
           park.  Get a ton of exercise, tank up on sun (unless you're in SF),
           and buy an old laptop to go work away from home on stuff you feel
           like--otherwise you just end up sitting around at home and pr0n-
           hosing.  -John
        \_ i did have to explain where i was for a year.  I said,
           "Peace corps." even "Missionary work in Sierra Leon" works.
2002/6/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Industry/Jobs] UID:25190 Activity:very high
6/24    How many of you feel victimized the same way for being a citizen?
        http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/020625/sun_visa_investigation_2.html
        \_ It's happened to me.  I know for a fact I lost out on a job I was
           qualified for to an H1b only because he cost dirt to hire.  I know
           because a friend in HR told me flat out.  It happens and it's
           illegal.  They've done 4 rounds of layoffs since then anyway so
           fuck em.
           \_ Don't worry.  Those low-cost H1Bs won't be able to get a green
              card with their salary history and will have to leave the
              country soon.
              \_ yeah but in the curent shortage of job openings, it's not
                 going to help us unemployed/undeemployed folks NOW.
                 \_ If you want to get rid of them now, I guess you can sue
                    the company or report them to INS.  But then you'll have to
                    explain how you know the H1Bs' salaries since supposedly
                    it's confidential.
                    \_ If I had bothered to file a complaint I sure as hell
                       would have spilled it all if I had to.  Anyway, I don't
                       have to know what the H1b got, I just have to know they
                       hired the Aussie and not me and have them investigate.
                       I predict death by xmas anyway so I'm happy fate and
                       karma has taken care of it.
              \_ Yes, but their job will follow them out of the country.
                 Soon all the "high-tech" work will be done in India and
                 China by barely tech literate people (by Berkeley EECS
                 standards) for peanuts. Software is about to become a
                 commodity and the days of six figures (at least in dollars)
                 for coders will be over shortly.
                 \_ Nonsense.  And no I'm not a programmer so I'm not worried
                    or threatened by the possibility.
                 \_ Then you can exploit the holes in the software and make
                    millions.
                    \_ No, you can't, since the feds will come to your house
                       take your computers and lock you up for violating the
                       DMCA.
                        \_ DMCA?  That has nothing to do with anything. Sheesh.
                           If you're going to whine about the gub'ment, please
                           at least educate yourself about it.
        \_ Follow Rep. Tom Tancredo who is authoring H.R. 3222 to kill
           the H1-B program.  He is also an active opponent to illegal
           immigration (eg. Bush's 245i amnesty).  FWIW you can read
           about him, where else, but http://freerepublic.com
        \_ You're not victimized for being a citizen.  You're victimized for
           asking for a higher salary than those H1Bs.  This is not a case of
           discrimination.  Sun is "discriminating" against those getting
           higher salaries in favor of those getting lower salaries and doing
           the same jobs.  This is simply a business decision, not
           discrimination under law.  The real issue here should be whether
           or not those remaining H1Bs are getting below-market salaries,
           thus breaking the law.  That law relates to protecting US labor,
           not preventing discrimination.  -- former H1B
           \_ Last time I checked, these H1B workers are making way more
              than CA's minimal wage.  When is compensation below market
              average is breaking the law now?
              \_ I don't know when it started.  When my employer sponsered my
                 green card application six years ago, the lawyer had to do
                 some paperwork to quote several major salary surveys in this
                 area to prove that I was getting above-market salary.
           \_ No the real issue is whether companies should be allowed to
              import labor from the third world to replace citizens here.
              They're getting all the benefits of being an American company in
              the US but not paying their dues back to the country that makes
              their company's existence possible.  The answer is that they
              should not and are not legally allowed to hire an H1b to fill a
              job when there's an American available for the position.
2002/6/23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25173 Activity:high
6/22    To the liberals - have you ever had a positive experience
        dealing with any government agency (eg. DMV)?  Or, as in
        my experience, are all bureaucrats rude, lazy and painful
        to deal with.  Then take a look at the Federal Register
        (accumulation of SOME federal regulations since 1940):
        http://www.mercatus.org/regulatoryaccounting.pdf
        \_ I got pistol whipped once right by Reel Video and
           the nice cop gave me a ride home.
2002/6/19-20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:25146 Activity:insanely high
6/19    How many hours a week do you work?
        \_ during the dot com boom, +75 hr/week. After, 30 hr/week. The funny
           thing is that now I enjoy my life more than before even though I
           was almost a paper millionaire.
           \_ do you have a 4 day workweek? or just slack off?
        \_ A little bit more than 40.
        \_ 0. -grad student
        \_ 60+ -grad student -- not all grad students are lazy fucks.
           \_ sign your name.
              \_ why?  what do you care?
           \_ Yeah, some get the energy to moan.
        \_ Work is relative.  Does being _at_ work count as work even if I'm
           just surfing?  Total time lost is 40-100/wk plus commute.  Real
           work time is 10-65 + commute.
        \_ 30 hr/week physically at work...actual work, 10hr/week.
        \_ 40 hr/wk, 45 if you include commute, 35 if you deduct breaks.
        \_ seems like people are working less post-boom.  Is work getting
           boring?
        \_ 65 hrs/wk during the boom, 35 or so now.
        \_ 50 hrs/wk at a dot-com during the boom, 40 or so now.  Now my
           salary is 20% higher, but I now get tiny options on stock
           which probably won't go up.
        \_ 0. -laid off dotcommer
        \_ seems like a lot of people are working less than during the dot
           com boom.  Some are happier now.  But are you getting bored
           with your work?  Are you doing more fun things with your free
           time?
           \_ I'm getting more, I'm working the same, I'm not any happier.  My
              problem is I don't want to work *at all* but can't afford to just
              quit and not have an income.  Starvation is so annoying.
              [and stop deleting my stuff. i was here first you motd smushing
               pig]
             \_ I'd like to work about 20-25 hours per week with 8-10 weeks
                  vacation per year, but unfortunately, there is the 40
                  hour work week and only 3 weeks vacation per year.
                      Actual time spent working is less than 40 hours,
                      maybe less than 30.  Time spent at work probably
                      45-50.
        \_ Since we're project-based, it's roughly 35-40 hrs during non-project
           time, and x hrs during project crunch time. (x = whatever it takes)
2002/6/6 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:25009 Activity:nil
6/6     Looks like Lawrence Berkeley National Lab has some job openings
        for jobs like SysAdmins and Unix Support/Programmers.
2002/5/15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24841 Activity:high
5/15    must read!
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/05/14/2044245&mode=thread&tid=156
        \_ That's just some boring ass stuff about Indian programmers.
           http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war.html
           Now, that's a must read.
2002/5/14-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24827 Activity:moderate
5/14    Does "hiring freeze" mean no headcount increase, or no hiring for
        replacement even when someone leaves the company?
        \_ Both.  At least in my company, it was the latter.
           \_ I'm guessing it depends on what position leaves.  If it's
              a chief sysop or something, refill, otherwise, no?
           \_ mmm... reduction by attrition...
2002/5/7-8 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24742 Activity:high
5/7     Is it possible to collect unemployment benefits if your voluntarily
        quit?  I'm reading http://www.edd.ca.gov and there's too much info.  I can't
        seem to find a clear answer.  Thanks.
        \_ Yes.  You did keep a backdoor while you still had root, right?
        \_ No.
           \_ To add to this, even if it was a voluntary lay-off.
                \_ There's no such thing as a voluntary lay-off.  1984.
2002/5/3-6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24698 Activity:kinda low
5/3     Anyone has any experience with ACE?  How was it?
        \_ If by ACE you mean Doug Schmidt's Toolkit. I've used it
           on and off over the years. Once you get the hang of ACE
           it is really easy to write portable scalable programs.
           Learning ACE can be a pain, esp. if you don't have someone
           to talk to who already knows how to use it. It is also
           a bit hard to get a new developer up to speed on ACE.
           \_ Thanks!  Does Schmidt's books (POSA2, ACE and Patterns,
              ACE and Framework) help in learning it?  Are they worth
              getting?
              \_ When I started with ACE, these books didn't exist
                 so I can't really say if they will help you. Given
                 what I have seen of Schmidt and co., these books
                 will heavy into c++ and patterns theory, so unless
                 you are *exteremely comfortable* with patterns, they
                 probably won't help you much. One of the reasons I
                 gave up on ACE was because of patterns.
        \_ Telebears was a big improvement over ACE.
           \_ ACE forms taught you how to deal with big, govt bureaucracies.
2002/5/1 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:24651 Activity:nil
4/30    Ok, the job market in the computer industry is in the dumps.
        Everybody knows that.  How about for CS or EE PhDs?  Any colleges
        or big companies hiring?  thanks.
        \_ job_market(Bachelor) >> job_market(PhD), in any job conditions.
           \_ why do you say that?  What about PhDs who become managers
                or Sr. Software Engineers?
                \_ PhDs have greater salary requirements.  Doors definitely
                   close for PhDs, though some new ones open.  There is a PhD
                   glut in this country.  Getting a PhD to improve your
                   career is not a wise choice.
                   \_ I worked with a PhD guy at one company who was very
                      good at theory but knew jack all about coding.  Even
                      though I was IT Manager and never coded professionally
                      and *never* wrote anything in Java, I had to read and
                      explain java threading to him and help him redesign his
                      code.  We all got laid off shortly after that, thank god.
                      \_ Not all PhD programs emphasize coding. Depends on the
                         discipline really.
                         \_ It was 2nd year undergrad level work.  Would it be
                            fair to assume he got his BA before his Phd?
        \_ as with anything in life your likelyhood of getting a job decreases
           when you have more degrees. For example if you work at a McD
           store you could probably work anywhere you want. But if you have
           a PhD in AstroBiologyPhysicalAbstruceShit then there are only
           a few places that you can work at. The moral of the story is to
           simply do what you enjoy, you'll somehow survive anyhow.
           \_ Sometimes people will also not consider you because they think
              you'll be bored and look elsewhere when you get the chance.
2002/4/23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24546 Activity:high
4/23    Any advice on where to find jobs that pay more than retail with
        hours flexible enough for classes. ?
        \_ Campus?
                \_  I said that pay more than retail. Besides;
                our good ol governor has a hiring freeze thanks to W.
                \_ How is it W's fault that California is run by fuckups?
                \_ UC system is exempt from the hiring freeze. - danh
                        \_ interesting since the CSU system has a freeze
                           -- SFSU student
        \_ I should amend that to "uc system does not have to comply
           with the hiring freeze when it would interfere with their
           educational mission" - danh
           \_ further, the hiring freeze applies only to those positions
              paid for by state funds.  if there are other sources of
              funding available, doosh doosh.
        \_ You could read the rest of the motd and see that ResComp
           is hiring, for one.
                \- I am not an Cal Student.
                   \_ How did you get a CSUA account, then?
                      \_ Don't be a moron. Some people actually live to
                         graduate.
                         \_ Let's see, you post a message on the
                            Computer Science *Undergraduate* Machine
                            asking how you can get a job that will
                            fit in with your *class**schedule* and
                            then call someone who points you to campus
                            jobs a moron. Go stick your head in pig!
                            \_ share and enjoy
                               share and enjoy
                               journey through life with a plastic boy
                               or girl by your side
                               that's your pal, be your guide
                               until it breaks down and starts to annoy
                               and grinds when it moves and gives you no joy
                               because it's eaten your hat
                               had sex with your cat
                               played ball on your wall
                               or riped off your dog
                               sednd it to us we won't giva  fig
                               well tell you
                               go dstick your head in a pig.
2002/4/23-24 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24542 Activity:moderate
4/23    Want expand on your technical skills in a fun environment with flexible
        hours? Apply to be a Rescomp sysadmin!  Applications due April 24th @
        12:00pm.  For more info: http://www.rescomp.berkeley.edu/hiring
        \_ Dude!  Do I get a Dell?
        \_ "Systems Administrators are paid $17.03 per hour and are
            required to work 12-19 hours of work during the school year."
            Is that hours of work per year, per month, per week?
            When I was student we only got $9.03/hr.
        \_ does rescomp still have RCC's and all those positions?
           \_ yes. not as well paid as sysadmins, though.
        \_ We currently are not hiring right now. Please check back later for
           more info on positions which we may need to fill. If you have any
           questions, please email us at hiring@rescomp.berkeley.edu.
2002/4/20-21 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:24507 Activity:high
4/19    (Soon to Be) New Grads, get any offers yet? How much? Who's hiring?
        -- '99 alum
        \_ Yes.  Mid 70s.
           \_ Startup? Big Company? Bay Area? That's more than I'm making...
              \_ Startup.  Bay Area.
        \_ only interest from Bay Area start-ups thus far... no formal offers
           yet (two pending). what should I hope for/expect?
        \_ Yes. Low 20s. Grad school.
        \_ What startups are hiring?  Where'd you find their names?  Most of
           the ones I see publicly posting job ads are total bullshit.
           \_ What about defense companies? I've seen positions targetting
              0-2 yr experience at defense company web sites. -another99alum
              \_ I've talked to people that worked at defense companies for
                 20+ year careers.  Their jobs are very unsafe.  Less so than
                 at some random large corp.  Once a project ends the engineers
                 all get axed and need to find a new project.  End = completed,
                 cancelled, on hold for extended period, etc.  And they say
                 the pay was nothing special.  Plus lots of hassles with
                 security stuff which makes sense given who the employer is.
2002/4/11 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/GradSchool] UID:24409 Activity:nil
4/10    By far the most important component of an application is
        extremely strong recommendation letters from respected
        faculty that rank an applicant in the top 1-5%.

        Again, we are sorry you were not accepted, but this year was a
        particularly difficult one to gain entrance into our program.

        We wish you all the success in the future.
        CS Graduate Admissions
        Stanford University
        \_ That's an interesting point.  Thanks for that.
           I hear this year, getting into grad school (the better ones)
           is much more competitive than before.
        \_ phd or ms?
           \_ I think both, a lot of students graduating this year
              choose higher education over the job market (what job
              market?).
2002/4/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:24348 Activity:moderate
4/5     i2's fucked: http://news.com.com/2100-1017-877222.html
        \_ The CEO & President of the last dotcom I was at were both from i2.
           If they're typical i2 employees, then no shit i2 is fucked.
2002/3/27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24249 Activity:high
3/27    From the CS162 newsgroup... though I'd be interested to hear an
        answer myself:
        "If any of you recently got offers for entry level positions in
         SW development or know others who did, can you tell me what is
         considered a good enty level salary this year... "
        \_ You'd be lucky to find a job.
        \_ I think it's still $5.15/hr.  Good luck, kid.  People with real
           experience in the real world can't even get call backs or
           interviews.  This isn't 1998.  No one needs or wants interns or
           entry level NCGs this year or next.
           \_ I've noticed that defense has picked up lately, check
              Boeing, NorthropGrumman, LockheedMartin, etc. for jobs
              and internships
           \_ In CA, it's $6.25.
              \_ Oh yeah.  Forgot.  I think you can still buy a house with that
                 kind of earning potential... near Chernobyl.
2002/3/22-24 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24191 Activity:moderate
3/21    I'm looking for a job.  See http://flophouse.com/~dpassage/resume
                        --dpassage
        \_ did you ever get a private pilot's certificate?
           \_ Nope. Once I didn't work a mile from the airport
              anymore, it got a lot less convenient. --dpassage
                \_ that was a test. You're a quitter, and we don't want to
                   hire you.
        \_ I turned down a job at securant.  How was it there?
           \_ There were some really great people at Securant,
              and some turkeys.  It really helped my career but
              if I'd asked better questions during the interview
              process, I might have turned them down too. --dpassage
        \_ What do you want to do?  Based on your resume, I would say
           sysadmin/networking admin is a direct fit.
              \_ They took almost 3 weeks to go from "We want to hire you"
                 to "here's your offer letter".  A good friend worked in HR
                 there and told me the delay was due to the uh less than
                 professional level of conduct (being nice) of two people
                 who sat on the paperwork for so long HR had to start redoing
                 paperwork because one of the geniuses lost theirs.  They
                 eventually did make a decent offer but I wasn't going to wait
                 around for them to get it together.  I signed with someone
                 else for more money 2 days before they got me a written
                 offer.  And now they're gone.
        \_ font of the last line is different... looks "unprofessional"
2002/3/14-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24118 Activity:high
3/13    Nobody has experience with voicestream?
        \_ Do they even offer coverage in the Bay Area?
2002/3/12-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:24091 Activity:very high
3/12    Work has been kind of slow and there just isn't enough work
        to keep me here 8 hrs a day.  My manager aknowledges that too.
        But on the other hand, he keeps on harrassing me for not
        being here full 8 hrs a day and they pay my salary base on the
        fact of me working 8 hrs a day.  As a salary employee and
        a software engineer on a project-based schdule, I am sure he
        is wrong.  But I can't find any information to prove him
        incorrect.  Any url please?
        \_ Here's the deal.  Like the others say below, he can keep you there,
           you're not entitled to overtime, etc, etc.  That's all true.  Now
           then, the real deal has nothing to do with overtime or paying you
           or whatever.  It has to do with making your boss look bad.  If
           you're not there his cubes look empty and *his* bosses start
           asking ugly questions about why your boss is there getting paid so
           much.  As long as your boss is ok with you surfing, or *quietly*
           playing some game, you have no problems and nothing to bitch about.
           I'm guessing this is your first job or maybe your second?  This is
           the way the world works.  I'm sure you'll make up for the paid-to-
           -surf time later with plenty of 12 hour days of hard coding or
           whatever.  It's karma.  It balances.  Show your face 8 hours and
           don't worry about it.  --been there before and now
           \_ Actually, I have been working 8 yrs.  I just never worked
              with quite a boss like him.  His boss now "works at home"
              4 days a week since it's so slow.  I do play games/surf web/
              etc, but he gets on my case for these too.  He gets on my
              case for 1 hr and 15 mins lunches.  He wants me to "work"
              8 hrs a day while not giving me enough work and akwnoledges
              the fact that he hasn't given me any project.  I am going
              nuts.
              \_ Wow, your first idiot manager in 8 years?  You're lucky.
                 You need to learn how to better manage your manager.  When
                 he tells you he wants you to be "working" you have two basic
                 choices: 1) say you are.  keep lots of windows available with
                 source code on them.  you're a) debugging, b) working on a
                 more efficient algorithm, c) adding comments, d) writing
                 documentation, e) sticking your thumb up your ass.  Or 2)
                 you can risk throwing it back at him by asking him if there
                 was some project deadline we're not meeting that requires
                 more attention or ask him if he'd like to raise the priority
                 of one of your (non-existent) projects and ask him which one
                 he'd like you to be working on now.  I've used the latter
                 method successfully and it's a more permanent solution bc
                 it makes your boss not want to harass you anymore but there's
                 political risk.  He might feel you're being insubordinate and
                 can your ass.  You know your boss better than the motd so
                 you'll have to decide which route is more effective and safer.
                 You don't want your boss to ask to see all that documentation
                 you've been working on if you've really been clock watching
                 and picking your nose for weeks.  Good luck!
        \_ go work in India or Russia... this doesn't happen there.
        \_ He is not wrong.
           \_ Really?  If he is not wrong, then based on labor codes,
              they also have to pay me 1.5x my salary when I work
              overtime, which they never did.  Am I not an "exempted"
              worker?
                 \_ There's a "Highly Compensated Computer Professional"
                    exemption...  No overtime if paid at least $41/hr.  The
                    federal equiv is $27.63, so the Calif law (A.B. 88)
                    overrides that.  -nevman
                    \_ Since when does state law override federal law?
                       \_ legalized marijuana, for example.
                          \_ prop 215 was suspended by a federal judge, as was
                             187 - states can not make federal-level policies
                          \_ Which is why the feds did a pot bust in SF a week
                             or two ago?  Got a real example?
                       \_ Being paid $41 satisfies both laws. So it is not so
                          much an "override" (like pot), but a superset.
                \_ I think a lot of managers get away with
                   not paying their workers over time in tech jobs,
                   but you know what, we're all overpaid anyway,
                   who cares.
                   \_ i'm not!  oh, wait.  i'm a grad student. nevermind.
                \_ If you were paid hourly you'd be eligible for time and a
                   half. But your status as a full timer exempts you from that.
                   http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.html/lab_table_of_contents.html
                   Section 226: ..."total hours worked by the employee,
                   except for any employee whose compensation is solely based
                   on a salary and who is exempt from payment of overtime
                   under subdivision..."
         \_ You are exempt. As your boss, he can keep you there 8
                 hours or even 12 hours if he wants to. Stop whining
                 because he wants you to look busy for 8 hours and enjoy
                 the fact that you're getting paid for just sitting there.
                 Do your taxes or play Tetris or something. --dim
        \_ here is a thought. Why don't you work on your on projects (c,
           java, etc) which will look like you're coding hard. Or read
           publications from ACM. Or take classes from SITN. You did get
           into Comp Sci for the love of science right?
           \_ Yeah, I second that.  I would love to have free time like that
              where I can learn interesting stuff on my own and upgrade my
              skills.  Mostly bogged down with gnarly stuff lately,
              unfortunately.
           \_ good idea.  why not do something good for the company while
              learning new skills? - !original poster
           \_ someone tell me with SITN is?
                \_ Take courses from Stanford remotely.  Could lead to
                   an MS in CS.
                   \_ How much does that cost?
                        \_ it is almost equivalent to the cost of a Stanford
                           non SITN Master's.  Your company may sponsor part
                           or all of the cost.
2002/2/25 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23964 Activity:very high
2/24    Getting tired of Bay Area.  What is a good place to look for
        technical jobs abroad?  I speak Chinese and some Japanese.
        \_ Are you talking about Web sites or actual locales?
        \_ Check out Shanghai.
                \_ tell us about the stars^H^H^H^Hhookers aaron
                   \_ shookers?
                   \_ aaron?  try sky.
                \_ Actually, if you are into software, then, I suggest
                   you look at Beijing instead.  Northwest part of Beijing
                   is where most action is... having said that, I am not
                   sure how to go about this, as I am not originally from
                   mainland.  Those who are from mainland, please fill
                   up the detail.
        \_ Taipei or Tokyo.  Shanghai if you're a pioneer.
        \_ related: anyone know about how the pay falls off for software
           engineering positions as you go overseas? eg, Europe, asia,
           latin america.  I'd like to try living/working somewhere else
           for a while but don't want to sacrifice alot of pay.
                \_ expect: $10k rmb/mon in china, $50k ntd/mon in taiwan
                        \_ where do you get the $10K RMB figure.  Starting
                           salary for software engineer is about at max
                           $2K RMB.  Unless you're in a real senior
                           position, $10K RMB / month is a lot at the
                           local standard.
                        \_ I also heard 10k to 20k, but this is for
                           people with a few years of experience in
                           US.
           \_ About 10% (ie. 90% off) of the pay here of you go to India, but
              you can live like a lord with that pay over there.
        \_ There is a salary survey in http://www.asiaweek.com archives -
           2001 (data for 2000).
        \_ it would be nice if someone can share his/her experience on
           working abroad (specifically, China and Japan).  i am
           interested on ASIC design opportunity. -original poster
2002/2/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23887 Activity:high
2/15    people, the job-market is moving again.
        \_ Moving where? And where are the jobs?
                \_ India & China for programming/high tech
                   \_ the offshore thing is a passing fad.  It'll take about
                      3-5 years before US companies figure out this is more
                      trouble than it's worth.
                   \_ http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html#tth_sEc9.5
                        \_ these guys clearly didn't actually try to hire
                           anyone two years ago.  We were getting applicant
                           pools with 5 applicants, three of whom were
                           then working as janitors or something.  Anyone
                           who didn't believe there was a shortage had their
                           head in the sand, or up their ass.
                           Nowadays, we're getting pools of 100+ applicants.
                           The methodology used to draw conclusions in the
                           above report is clearly flawed and designed
                           merely to grind a partisan axe.  -tom
                           \_ It's a good thing we have your decidedly
                              unpartisan, bike-riding, linux-using ilk to
                              set us straight, Tom.
2002/1/25-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23670 Activity:very high
1/25    So my small startup company is asking each one of us to take a
        semi-permanent (i.e. for the next 6 months) salary cut. I know I could
        probably get a job someplace else for more money. Questions:
        1) does http://salary.com still provide a pretty close estimate on 2001/2002
           salary ranges or are they still providing stats from the '98-'99
           golden era? When I looked at them I thought I'm getting screwed...
        2) Would you work for a company that offers $75K/yr for software
           systems architecture work?
        \_ With the recent wave of layoffs, are you sure you can get a job
           someplease else, let alone for more money?
           \_ i don't think this is completely irrational.  the
              biggest cost for any company is by far money
              for salaries.
           \_ Don't know; but I have been looking. My mgmt simply can't be
              trusted and I don't get along with my direct supe. My strategy
              (if I can't find anything now) is to put in my required 8-9 hrs
              a day and keep an eye out for better things. Any noticeable
              flaws in this strategy? -- original poster
              \_ I think no management can be trusted when they're talking
                 about compensation.  They just keep on saying you're already
                 getting top salary at your level of skills.  And they'll cite
                 whatever obsolete salary survey that lists the lowest salary
                 ranges.
              \_ If you want to maintain your current salary level,
                 work less hrs.  i.e., with a 12.5% pay cut, you simply
                 work 7 hrs a day, that basically puts you on the same
                 salary when you used to work 8 hrs a day.  That's what
                 I do.  Just make sure you still complete your work.
                 \_ Yeah but you're still taking home less every check.
        \_ I've yet to see an online survey that even came close to what I've
           made at various places for the last 7+ years.  If you're making the
           http://salary.com figures then I think you're low.  Most of those surveys
           allow people to self describe.  I've seen surveys where "Senior
           Unix Sysadmins" in the U.S. claim to be making $25k.  Not even in
           Alabama.  As for the rest of it, *never* trust management.  Even
           if they didn't want to cut your salary it sounds like a shitty work
           environment anyway.  You should *always* be looking for a new job
           even if your current job seems great.  I think your basic plan is
           fine.  Do the bare minimum required to keep getting a check and
           bug out the moment you get something you'd like.  --been there
        \_ There is more to work than money. Do you like what you are doing?
           Do you enjoy working with your co-workers? Are you learning
           new stuff or do you have more responsibility than you would
           with your experience level at another place? If the answer to
           all these questions is no, then you should definitely be looking
           for another job.
           \_ very obviously, his main interest is to collect pay checks if
              his primary concern is salary.  If a company is in this cutback
              mode, I'd be more concern about the company outlook more than
              bitching over salary cut.
2002/1/25-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23666 Activity:very high
1/24    Someone recommended http://dice.com... are all the postings in there by
        headhunters? any particular headhunters in there that are good?
        are there any good job websites that have regular job postings,
        not headhunters?
        \_ I keep recommending people NOT to use http://dice.com.  Every response I
           got from there was from some annoying headhunter.
        \_ http://dice.com is free.. thats why headhunters like using it.. but they
           use it to find both people and jobs.  also, small companies LOVE
           using http://dice.com for that same reason.  we get almost all our
           resumes from http://dice.com and craigslist
           \_ long entry (sorry -- skip if you're not interested in the
              details of job boards): http://dice.com is NOT free for employers.
              it is actually pretty expensive for employers.  however,
              it does attract the most headhunters into
              its database of resumes because mostly, that's how http://dice.com
              markets itself to employers (e.g., that it has a lot of contract
              employees on there).  also, with the economy what it is, most
              employers are limiting themselves to only one or two resume
              databases, and from what I hear, they usually use http://Monster.com
              or http://hotjobs.com (which are even more expensive, but considered
              to have "better quality" resume databases).  most
              job boards have now opened their clientele to headhunters, due
              to the economic conditions out there.  however, http://hotjobs.com
              (which held out the longest in not offering access to
              headhunters), gives limited access to headhunters (ie, I think
              they allow headhunters to search the resumes, but not to post
              jobs), so it may be your "best" place to avoid HHs.  --chris
        \_ Nothing wrong with head hunters per se.  You just have to know how
           to deal with them.  Your first question should always be, "What's
           the company's name?"  If they start shitting around on you about
           they have numerous job openings blah blah, insist on a list of
           the companies they have in mind for you.  Sometimes HHs have a
           real job in hand.  It happens.
        \_ Headhunters are slimy, but very convenient.  A good headhunter
           will find you an interview and negotiate your salary.  Get
           several of them working for you at once and play them off against
           each other.  I recommend starting with about 10 or 15, and narrowing
           it down to maybe 4 viable job offers.  Try to have as many going
           at the same time as possible and tell them inflated reports of
           their rivals' yield.  That's my advice.  And yes I do this.  -brain
        \_ Dice sucks.  They kept on reposting the same jobs that's been
           filled long time ago.  Try http://flipdog.com where you can also
           filter out recruiters posting if you like.
           \_ this is true -- http://dice.com tends to 'refresh' old job postings from
              employers (or in this case, headhunters).  most employers do
              not know this happens (it happens at no extra cost, unlike
              http://monster.com), or they do not care.  i believe that hotjobs
              also does not let jobs expire.  --chris
2002/1/22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23624 Activity:insanely high 50%like:23239 50%like:25337 50%like:25383
1/21    What's the difference between a resume and a CV?
        \_ the former is for people who work.  the latter is for people who
           theorize about work.
        \_ a resume is supposed to be <= 1 page, with emphesis on skills
           and buzzwords. a CV is for academics, mostly, or europeans, and
           lists everything you've ever done, and can be up to 2-3 pages.
           more or less. -chialea
           \_ you should list your impressive boob size
                \_ Actually CV's have no limit...since publications
                   are usually listed, they can get well over 10+ pages.
        \_ although these days it's acceptable to have > 1 page resume when
           you have had 5+ yrs of professional experience, highlighting the
           company/client projects you've worked on, all the skills you have,
                \_ Depends on the firm. For you academic types, the
                Chronicle of Higher Ed has a good article on how to
                convert CVs to resumes:
                (http://chronicle.com/jobs/99/12/99120301c.htm
                and others on putting together a successful CV.
           etc. True especially for consultants. - jthoms
           \_ I thought machines were used to read most resumes these
              days so length was less relevant?  --PeterM
              \_ According to the Help-You-Get-Back-on-Your-Feet company
                 Jeeves hooked us up with after the layoffs, 2 pages
                 is the maximum, machine-read or not.  --erikred
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