Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:13 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2004/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:32877 Activity:high
8/12    Ah-nold keeps his distance from GW Bush (Bush was in Santa Monica
        on Thursday), won't campaign for him outside of state (though he will
        speak at the RNC):
        http://csua.org/u/8l0 (usatoday.com)
        And you know what?  I know exactly why.  Can you guess?
        \_  Why don't you tell us?
           \_ The answer is:  Maria Shriver.  Think about it. -op
              \_ Could you spell it out for me?
        \_ Because Arnold is busy spending his time here in CA where we need
           a governor and this is the state where Arnold can do the most good
           for Bush?   Unlike a certain Senator who is running for President
           but has missed 70% of the votes this year, Arnold puts his
           responsibilities to the people first.  That's what you were going
           to tell us.
           \_ but of course Bush can do his job while travelling just as much
              as Kerry.
              \_ It's a different job so yes, he can.  And until very recently,
                 no he has not traveled anywhere close to as much as Kerry has
                 for a year.
2004/8/13 [Industry/Startup] UID:32878 Activity:high
8/12    Any bets on the low that GOOG stock will hit within one week of when
        the share price is set?  I say $80!  ("The company currently estimates
        its initial stock to be worth between $108 and $135 a share.")
        Within 6 months?  I say $30!
        \_ GOOG is a free profitable lesson in shorting
           \_ Use motdedit, visigoth
        \_ After 1 week: 25% drop from day 1 opening.  After 6 months: 40% drop
        \_ Schadenfreude doesn't become you.
           \_ Interestingly enough, Google brought this upon itself simply by
              naming such a high initial auction price. It's torn open the
              still mending wounds of the Internet bubble. If the initial bid
              price started in the $30s, public opinion and follow-up news
              articles would be much less acrimonious. Of course, the price
              would have soared for the first week (I'd guess peaking at 70+)
              before the sugar rush ended and the down slide began.
              \_ you do understand that there's no relation whatsoever between
                 the initial per-share price and the IPO valuation, right? -tom
                 \_ Public perception is the important thing here. Those who
                    expected a low initial share price were sudden faced with
                    a high one. The IPO value didn't change (although I think
                    it's rather absurd), but most people see it as a money
                    grab and not worth SPECULATING. For Google, the price
                    makes sense, but for those who wanted to see another
                    Webvan-style stock increase and selloff, it sucks. And
                    those people are the major grumblers.
                    \_ First of all, there's no chance of another Webvan-style
                       stock increase and selloff; it's no longer 1998.
                       Second, I think Google's owners legitimately want to
                       value their business fairly.  They also are big fans
                       of Warrenn Buffett, who believes that low share prices
                       (and stock splits to support them) reduce the quality
                       of the investors.
                       I think Google is pricey at 100-120 P/E (which is where
                       they're valuing it), but most IPOs are not good deals
                       for open-market investors (as opposed to the founders
                       and VCs).  YHOO's P/E is also over 100, EBAY's is
                       70, so it's not like they're totally out of whack with
                       the other big players in the sector.  -tom
                       \_ Then we agree! Wow! And they say that never happens
                          on the motd!
                       \_ What exactly is a 'lower quality investor'?  Is
                          their money less green?  The other companies you are
                          comparing Google to now have long public track
                          records.  A newly public company can not claim the
                          same public confidence as a company that has been
                          successfully running their business in public for a
                          few years.
                          \_ It's his way of saying 'speculator'.
           \_ I don't think it's any such thing.  I think everyone believes
              it is going to go down because they think it is priced too high.
              Google also has lots of really bad news recently showing they're
              not ready to be a real public company responsibly run, not a dot
              com bubble cluster fuck.
        \_ Below $20 within 2 years, unless they have something more impressive
           than froogle and gmail in store.
           \_ I say $30 on the 2 year mark but agree with you on the general
              concept.
                \_ wow lotta google haters out there, funny
                   \_ Don't hate the player, hate the game.
                   \_ I don't hate Google.  It's just a company.  I'm talking
                      about business, money, and the public market.  There is
                      nothing funny about any of those things.  Bringing any
                      sort of emotion into the equation is foolish.
2004/8/13 [Consumer/TV] UID:32879 Activity:kinda low
8/12    Is it possible to use a Series 2 Tivo as a vcr w/o subscribing to
        the service or hooking it up to you phone/network?
        Fry's has a Series 2 Tivo on sale for $99 and I was thinking that
        I could use it to replace my VHS VCR. (I don't care about Tivo's
        fancy features and would rather not pay for them, since I watch
        very little TV and only record Nova and Globe Trekker once a week
        or so). tia.
        \_ You can,but why?  Subscribe for a couple of months, see if you
           like it, and then cancel if you want.
        \_ Yeah I've been wondering about this too. I just want a VCR, not
           tivo's fancy stuff...
        \_ TiVos can run withoug the program guide, they just don't know what
           time anything is on, so you have to manually set all recording
           times.
           \_ So you gotta program time slots manually like regular old VCRs,
              I can totally live with that. Time to get a TIVO!
              \- which model is $99 at fry's? i understand the 40hr one
                 is $80 at costco. --psb
                 \_ The Fry's one is 40 hourse Series 2.  Not sure what the
                    specific model is beyond this.  BTW, Fry's is selling it
                    for $199 with $100 mail in rebate.  I assume the rebate
                    is contingent on signing up for the service.  Is the
                    Costco one $80 straight or is that post rebate also?
2004/8/13-15 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:32880 Activity:low
8/13    I have a question. CDs that are burned using say 52x, when the
        data is read back, does the drive have to spin it up to 52x?
        ie, are there any differences between CDs that are burned using
        8x vs 52x? Are the data interleaved differently? What about
        DVD?
        \_ DVD players play at the same rate it needs to play any dvd
        \_ It's all written the same way.  The only concern is if you have low
           quality discs they might not write correctly at 52x, but you'd
           notice that right away.
        \_ Think about your question. The "x" in "52x" is the PLAY SPEED.
2004/8/13 [Reference/Religion] UID:32881 Activity:high
8/12    Are there any Iraqis or Saudis on the motd? How about muslims in
        general?
        \_ I am an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church of
           Modesto California.  I believe that my impeccable mail-order
           credentials as a man of the cloth permit me to authoritatively
           say that I am not a muslim.  -John
           \_ Can you marry me and my box turtle?
              \_ Yes, but you cannot consummate the marriage without violating
                 the law.
2004/8/13 [Reference/Tax] UID:32882 Activity:insanely high
8/12    CBO reports Bush tax cuts have shifted tax burden to middle class
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61178-2004Aug12_2.html
        The CBO is headed by a former senior economist from the Bush white
        house, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.
        And the Bush response?
        "Girding for the study's release, Bush campaign officials have already
        begun dismissing it as 'the Democrat-requested report.'"
        \_ General question about tax increases and tax cuts for the
           liberal-minded sodans.  Say we agree that progressive taxation is
           good.  So whenever the government raises taxes, it does so in a
           progressive way (the rich pay more).  Shouldn't it, when lowering
           taxes, do so in a regressive way for the result to be the inverse
           operation?  Why is this raising such furor?  Is this just
           emotion politics? -- ilyas
           \_ Yes it is.
           \_ Assume you have some progressive graph of total income in the
              x-axis and total taxes on the y-axis.  In a progressive system,
              this curve would look something like a hyperbola monotonically
              converging to the max tax rate.  Multiplying the curve by some
              constant, say 0.9 would fairly lower taxes by 10% for everyone.
              The problem is if you change the shape of the curve in a way that
              it's overall 'progressiveness' is reduced.  If Bush's tax cuts
              preserved the progrssiveness, than everyone would have seen their
              total taxes decrease by the exact same percentage, but in reality
              the rich saw a much larger percentage drop in the amount they
              were paying.
              \_ Careful, you're making Motd Debate Mistake #1: trying to argue
                 with ilyas.
                 \_ It's not debating or arguing with the guy; it's pointing
                    out to everyone else on the motd why his argument is clearly
                    misleading.
                    \_ That's my whole point - once you are in the IlyaLogic
                       zone, normal rules do not apply.  Its best just to ignore
                       him.
                       \_ I think you guys pick on him because he is both
                          smarter than you and thinks more clearly and
                          logically than you.  And his real crime is he
                          questions your assumptions and beliefs.  The only
                          thing you can do is dismiss him without comment
                          because you can't win against someone smart and
                          right.
                          \_ actually, ilyas' brain has a lot of weaknesses.
                             it's too theoretical and ivory towerish.
                             he tends to think autistically, unable to
                             keep an open mind in examining others'
                             point of view.  he also likes to project his
                             own rather narrow and limited experience onto
                             problems he has no clue about, like "affirmative
                             action is bad for US, so it must be bad for
                             India" or "Libertarianism is what I like, so I
                             support Taiwan declaring independence", etc.
                             Like software, his brain could possibly be
                             upgraded to a better version, but it would
                             require some effort.
                          \_ Actually, I personally think he makes a lot of
                             not well-supported statements, just like in this
                             post.  I try to explain why.
                          \_ There are people on the motd who get picked on
                             because they're smarter, know more, and are too
                             willing to show it, but ilyas is not one of them
                             (except for the showy part).
                             He is an example of someone who pushed himself
                             (or get pushed) through education that is just
                             beyond his own capacity.  He and Tom show that
                             one doesn't necessarily become wiser by getting
                             higher degrees, and vice versa.  No, I am not
                             against education, but just think what a waste
                             it is of everybody's time and resource to pursue
                             graduate degree without knowing how to reason.
           \_ No, the progressiveness should be fixed, like each income
              bracket paying a portion of the total taxes.  Now, as a
              percentage, the top 1% is paying less.
           \_ The question is "how progressive is progressive enough"?  If one
              assumes that taxes are currently (after the Bush tax cuts to the
              rich and the removal of the dividend tax) not progressive enough,
              then to become more progressive, you can either (1) Lower the
              tax rates on the poor, (2) Perform (1) but lower the tax rates
              on the right by a smaller amount, (3) Increase taxes on the
              rich, or (4) Both (1) and (3).
              rich, the removal of the dividend tax, and the phasing out of the
              inheritance tax) not progressive enough, then to become more
              progressive, you can either (1) Lower the tax rates on the poor,
              (2) Perform (1) but lower the tax rates on the right by a smaller
              amount, (3) Increase taxes on the rich, or (4) Both (1) and (3).
              If, on the other hand, as you suggest, we lower taxes on
              the poor and rich at the same rate, you leave the tax system
              at the same level of progressiveness (which takes you from
              "not progressive enough" to the same level of "not progressive
              enough", given the initial assumption).
              \_ Uhm, ok, but as far as I know, the tax cuts were never made
                 permanent.  I think it's 2011 they all revert back to the
                 pre-Bush tax era.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
                 \_ You are likely correct.  It is also true that it does
                    not change the original argument.
           \_ To clarify my earler comment.  Suppose you start with a system of
              progressive taxation where one person pays $100 taxes on $1000 of
              income and another person pays $1000 taxes on $5,000 of income.
              To fairly reduce taxes by 10%, you'd see the poor guy's tax bill
              go to $90/$1000 and the rich guy's tax bill go to $900/$5000.
              An unfair reduction in taxes would be to reduce the  poor guy's
              taxes by 5%, to $95/1000, but reduce the rich guy's taxes 15% to
              $850/5000.
              \_ Ok.  So the general feeling is 'current tax system is not too
                 progressive.'  Did I get that right?  Because if it _was_ too
                 progressive, you would need to reduce taxes regressively to
                 fix it.  Next question: what's 'progressive enough?' -- ilyas
                 \_ we did reduce the taxes regressively.
                    \_ So was that good or bad?  -- ilyas
                 fix it.  Next question: what's 'progressive enough?'
                 To clarify: assuming you believe progressive taxation is a good
                 idea, AND assuming the current rates are 'just the right level
                 of progressiveness', you would want to reduce uniformly.
                 If you believe it's not progressive enough, you reduce
                 progressively, if you believe it's too progressive, you
                 reduce regressively.  So is the outcry about Bush's reduction
                 stemming from the fact that there's the belief the current
                 rates are not progressive enough?  What is progressive enough?
                 Btw, I was really flabbergasted by the level of shit in this
                 thread earlier today.  I was trying to understand the liberal
                 mindset in criticizing regressive reductions.  You would think
                 I would be encouraged to be more open minded, but I guess
                 not. -- ilyas
                 \_ The outcry was because the tax cuts were regressive, that
                    is, they made the tax structure less progressive.
                    \_ Yes ... but the outcry only makes sense if you believe
                       the system before Bush's cuts wasn't too progressive
                       (i.e. either just right or not progressive enough).
                       Do people here believe this to be so? -- ilyas
                       \_ That's a topic all its own.  Me personally?  I think
                          it should be more progressive.
                          \_ Well... the way I see it, you can't separate the
                             'outcry' from this topic.  And yes, it's a big
                             topic.  The fact that a regressive cut being good
                             or bad seems so disconnected in people's minds
                             from what a fair progressive tax system ought to
                             be makes me suspicious that it really is some sort
                             of hot button issue (the poor are getting screwed
                             more than the rich!).  -- ilyas
           \_ I thought ilyas is reasonably smart.  how come he doesn't even
              understand the difference between velocity and acceleration.
              \_ check your assumptions.
              \_ IlyaLogic is "different" than normal logic.
                                          \_ from
              \_ He does, he's just trying to lead you into a trap.
        \_ Since payroll taxes aren't being cut, most of the taxcut should
           go to the middle class.  Bush and Co always leave this bit out.
2004/8/13 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32883 Activity:nil
8/12    I am not a techie but I am trying to learn some perl to do
        some text manipulation for my research.  I am having trouble
        with hashes.  Can someone give me an example of how to read
        in something like the password file (say, user, directory, shell)
        into a hash?
        \_ The question belies a slight misunderstanding of hashes.  A hash
           is a simple set of key value pairs, so reading a password file
           in would require a bit of thought to the structure.  You could
           make the key be uid and the value be a pointer to an array of
           the passwd line, i.e. (username,pw,uid,gid,gcos,hdir,shell).
           You could alternately key on username.  You could make an array
           of hash references where each array member is like
             username => 'root',
             pw => '*',
             uid => 0,
             gid => 0,
           etc.  But using a single 1-dimensional hash on something like
           an entire passwd file would yield you the data from the last
           line in the file.
           \_What would be the right structure to use to read in the
             whole password table and hold it in a structure so I could
             refer to some arbitrary piece of data like "the shell of
             user user1"?  Like if I wanted to merge the encrypted password
             from the shadow file with the login and shell fields from the
             password file?  Thanks for your explanation.
             \_ Now that you could do with a hash, but easier would be to use
                (getpwnam('user1'))[8] to get the shell.  But to do this for
                the whole passwd file (as an example) would be
                  open PW,'/etc/passwd';
                  my %shells;
                  foreach my $pwentry (<PW>) {
                    chomp $pwentry;
                    ($name,$shell) = (split /:/,$pwentry)[0,6];
                    $shells{$name} = $shell;
                  }
                  close PW;
                Oh wait.  I didn't catch the part about shadow password, but
                this should give you an idea of where to start.
2004/8/13 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:32884 Activity:kinda low
8/12    R.I.P. Julia Child.  Pour out some wine on the ground in respect.
        \_ And of course, don't forget the optional heavy cream for added
           richness.
           \_ "A bit of cream at the end is a nourishing touch, but by no means
               necessary." -- Julia Child from The Way to Cook
2004/8/13 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:32885 Activity:nil
8/13    To people who use travelocity, how do you change password and sign out
        of your account?  I can't see it when using safari or mozilla.  The
        link at their customer page that says change password lead to the home
        page.
2004/8/13 [Uncategorized] UID:32886 Activity:nil
8/13    [just leave this up for an hour]
                      \_ This *is* Tom Tomorrow, except you're the
                             lame conservative guy.  I have it right there,
                             both their full quotes meaning the exact
                             same thing, and you criticize Kerry and laud
                             Bush.  Can't you see this?
                             \_ Have what?  Post it.  I'm not conservative btw.
                                I hate 'both' parties equally.
                                \_ Kerry quote, Bush quote on "sensitivity".
                                   Both guys said the same thing.  Kerry is
                                   slammed; Bush lauded.  Tom Tomorrow.
                        http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=17231
2004/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:32887 Activity:nil
8/13    Just curious.  I don't think this has ever been asked on the motd
        before.  Who have you voted for in the past and why?  I'll start:
        1988: random never heard of third party.  Bush Sr, ex-cia chief or
              Dukakis?  Hardly.
        1992: random never heard of third party.  was going to vote Perot
              until he claimed the cia was out to ruin his daughter's wedding.
        1996: random never heard of third party.  More Clinton or Dole, Mr.
              "it's my turn!".  Don't think so.
        2000: Nutty Gore (who turned out to be even nuttier after) or the
              coke head party boy?  Nader.
              \_ Just out of curiosity, what is it that makes Gore so nutty?
                 It sounds like you're just talking out your ass.
              \_ What's the "never heard of" third party of which you speak?
              \_ Nader is far nuttier than Gore.  -tom
                 \_ I humbly suggest that is not saying much.
                    \_ Being nuttier than Gore is not saying much?  You mean
                       Gore isn't nutty at all?  Well, I basically agree with
                       that.  -tom
                       \_ heh, I meant that Gore is pretty nutty, and saying
                          Nader is far nuttier isn't saying much because
                          they're all nuts at that point.  Gore may be right,
                          but he sure is pretty nutty.  I say he is nutty
                          based on two things:  Gore is a robot; and when
                          he crashes, he crashes hard.
        \_ Wow!  You still remember the names of failed candidates in the past?
2004/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32888 Activity:very high
8/13    Washington Post editorial:  "Swift Boat Smears"
        "... Mr. Kerry a coward and a liar.  This smear is contradicted by Mr.
        Kerry's crew mates, undercut by the previous statements of some of
        those now making the charges and tainted by the chief source of its
        funding:  Republican activists dedicated to defeating Mr. Kerry in
        November."
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58315-2004Aug11.html
        \_ Well lets see, he has stated he was in Cambodia dozens of times
           throughout his career, further indicating he was on secret
           CIA / Seal missions and fought the Khmer Rouge.  Do you believe
           him?
           \_ Kerry's people have said he was probably mistaken and probably
              wasn't there on Christmas Day, as much as it was "seared" into
              him.  As for the TV commercial, the Post lays waste to it.
              \_ I reject your explanation outright.  He has repeated this
                 story dozens of times, including on the Senate floor.
                 He has stated this was a 'transformative' moment that
                 defines who he is, repeatedly.  Do you believe what he
                 has said DOZENS of times or don't you?  Do you believe
                 he went into Cambodia on CIA/ SEAl missions?
                 \_ Just what explanation are you rejecting?  I just posted
                    what Kerry's people have said:  Kerry has said on the
                    record that he was not in Cambodia on Christmas Day.  (This
                    is the more accurate description -- take out my earlier
                    "probably's".)
                 \_ Yeah, I think he dropped of CIA/SEALs into Cambodia.
                    We know that the US was doing this as part of Operation
                    Pheonix during the early part of 1969 and that swift
                    boats were sometimes used for the insertion. Why do
                    think that he did not? I don't think he fought the
                    Khmer Rouge, but it is a little hard to tell exactly
                    which un-uniformed guerilla army someone belongs to
                    when they are shooting at you from 500 yards away.
                    http://www.serendipity.li/cia/operation_phoenix.htm
                        \_ On a 50 foot PFC with twin diesels that one
                        \_ On a 50 foot PCF with twin diesels that one
                           could hear hundreds of yards away?  Sorry
                           I don't think so.
                           Here's some background on Camb. incursions.
                           http://csua.org/u/8l9
                           \_ You've got your "background", and you've got
                              Operation Phoenix.  Now what do you get?
                              (Also, assuming a loud boat, maybe that's why
                              Kerry says he was getting shot at by all sides
                              while on his CIA mission(s).  I would want a
                              better boat if I were there, but you take what
                              the Army/Navy gives you.  SNAFU.)
                              \_ obJawsReference
                           \_ Interesting story. It proves that you can get
                              lost and end up in Cambodia by mistake, at least.
                              The CIA doesn't always tell The State Dept
                              what they are up to, especially if they know
                              that State might not approve. How do *you*
                              think the CIA and SEALs did their Cambodia
                              insertions? Do you think the guys walked
                              all the way from Saigon or something?
                              \_ Not by 50' twin diesel craft where
                                 the captain becomes lost.
                    \_ BUSH GOOD, KERRY BAD!
                    \_ He thinks that Kerry did not drop CIA/SEALs into
                       Cambodia, probably because Kerry admitted not being
                       in Cambodia on Christmas Day, the day he said he was
                       on the CIA mission.
                       \_ Obviously he got the day wrong. I already suggested
                          that he may have confused Tet with Christmas in
                          his mind. Perhaps you missed that.
                          \_ Well, Kerry did say he got the day wrong, but
                             he also said the memory had been seared into
                             his mind, and I don't recall him ever suggesting
                             himself the Tet/Christmas explanation.
                             \_ There are a number of events seared into my
                                memory, but I don't remember the date (or even
                                year) of all of them.
                             \_ Yeah, I have the memory of my first blowjob
                                seared into my mind, but I couldn't tell you
                                what day it was. I would have to think pretty
                                hard to tell you which year it was even.
                                \_ Both of the above are pretty silly.  In
                                   Kerry's story, the fact that it's
                                   Christmas day is CENTRAL to the story.
                                   It's kinda like if you couldn't
                                   remember if your first blowjob was
                                   done to your penis or your finger.
                                   \_ CENTRAL to the story?  That's arguable.
                                      The more appropriate analogy is
                                      remembering you lost your virginity
                                      on your birthday or your SO's birthday,
                                      which happened to be one month apart:
                                      You know you "moored" your "boat" in the
                                      "delta" and you "completed your mission"
                                      on one of your birthdays (depositing
                                      your "seamen" under the "moon") and
                                      there were a lot of other "missions"
                                      where you traveled "closer to the
                                      target" before and after that.  "Mission
                                      accomplished", but for some reason your
                                      wife is pissed you got the wrong
                                      birthday, and she doesn't believe you
                                      anymore when you said she was the first
                                      girl you slept with.
                                      \_ Bwahaha!
        \_ The "undercut" statement is false if it refers to O'Neill.  He was
           defending Kerry in 1996 against a false statement, and mentioned it
           in the May 4 press conference.  Steve Gardner *was* a crewmate of
           Kerry and is opposed to Kerry.  Elliot has specifically made
           chargest against Kerry which are not conflicted by his previous
           statements.
           \_ The editorial says nothing about O'Neill.  The crew mates are
              quoted in the article in support of Kerry's rescue of another
              crew member.  Gardner has not said anything disputing the rescue;
              he has just said he thinks Kerry is an indecisive leader, putting
              his crew members in jeopardy.  You should quote what Elliot has
              said that does not conflict with his previous statements.
2004/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32889 Activity:very high
8/13    Just curious.  I don't think this has ever been asked on the motd
        before.  Who have you voted for in the past and why?  I'll start:
        \_ It's kind of interesting to note who people voted for and
           who's in power an election cycle afterwards. If America had
           voted for Dukakis, we wouldn't have had Clinton. If we voted
           for Bush Sr. or Dole instead of Clinton, we probably wouldn't
           have had GWB.
        \_ 1992:  Perot, realized mistake later.  Not voted since due to
           overall disgust with available candidates, don't believe in the
           lesser of two evils.  I'd vote for Kerry's wife, though. -John
        1988: random never heard of third party.  Bush Sr, ex-cia chief or
              Dukakis?  Hardly.
        1992: random never heard of third party.  was going to vote Perot
              until he claimed the cia was out to ruin his daughter's wedding.
        1996: random never heard of third party.  More Clinton or Dole, Mr.
              "it's my turn!".  Don't think so.
        2000: Nutty Gore (who turned out to be even nuttier after) or the
              coke head party boy?  Nader.
              \_ I  know a guy who voted for the guy who lost all the way
                 back to the mid '60s.  That's how I knew the 2000 election
                 was a fraud.  He actually voted for W.
                 \_ Whoa.  He voted Carter/Mondale/Dukakis/Bush/Dole?!
                    Now who's the nut?!!!!
                    \_ well, he voted for perot in '92 and at some point
                       he voted for Jesse Jackson, but you've got the rest
                       right.
              \_ Just out of curiosity, what is it that makes Gore so nutty?
                 It sounds like you're just talking out your ass.
              \_ What's the "never heard of" third party of which you speak?
              \_ Nader is far nuttier than Gore.  -tom
                 \_ I humbly suggest that is not saying much.
                    \_ Being nuttier than Gore is not saying much?  You mean
                       Gore isn't nutty at all?  Well, I basically agree with
                       that.  -tom
                       \_ heh, I meant that Gore is pretty nutty, and saying
                          Nader is far nuttier isn't saying much because
                          they're all nuts at that point.  Gore may be right,
                          but he sure is pretty nutty.  I say he is nutty
                          based on two things:  Gore is a robot; and when
                          he crashes, he crashes hard.
                          \_ Uhm, that's a really stupid basis to draw that
                             conclusion from.  Maybe you should wait until
                             puberty before posting to motd or (god forbid)
                             voting.
                             \_ I don't think you understand the lack of
                                seriousness implied when comparing levels of
                                nuttiness.  I'd still vote Gore in over Bush,
                                and I did, and I still think Gore is better
                                Presidential material.
                                \_ No, I understand it.  I just think you're
                                   nitwit.
        \_ Wow!  You still remember the names of failed candidates in the past?
           \_ Don't worry, brother.  Enemies of the party and other unpersons
              will soon be forgotten.
2004/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32890 Activity:high
8/13    I think terrorists are spamming me.
        \_ As a representative of the President of Nigeria, I have a special
           opportunity for you.
           \_ Ex-president that is.
2004/8/13-15 [Uncategorized] UID:32891 Activity:nil
8/13    Any way to see the Olympics live on TV in the USA?
        \_ get a friend in the UK to proxy BBC's live webcasts for you.
2004/8/13-15 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:32892 Activity:moderate
8/13    periodic motd poll.  Bay Area mobile phone companies
        who do you use, do they suck/rule?
        \_ Verizon:  Great signal, lousy price and phone selection
           Customer service is pretty good, and EV-DO (400kbit) service should
           be rolled out around Christmas.
           \_ Will it be a low flat fee like Sprint and T-Mobile?  More info
              please
        \_ AT&T: Great phones, decent prices, signal is hit or miss.
           New GSM system will give you whichever is the stronger of
           AT&T or Cingular.  Haven't seen the old Cingular GSM problem
           yet where you couldn't get a line out.  Old AT&T TDMA system
           gets progressively worse and worse as they shift resources.
           \_ Agreed.  Also, their customer service is now back to average
              after several months of being useless.
           \_ Same here.  Great phone, great price, lousy signal.  Seems like
              it's the opposite of Verizon.
        \_ Any experience with T-Mobile in the Bay Area?
           \_ Yeah, I used it for a year and switched back to Verizon.
              I couldn't get a signal at all at the office in the
              Financial District and had to stand on the porch to
              make a phone call at home (in Noe Valley). -ausman
           \_ My wife and I switched from AT&T TDMA to T-M early this year.
              Great plans, nice phones, and pretty good coverage, we've
              found (in the Berkeley area).
              \_ How good is T-M coverage on campus?  Specifically, around
                 Tolman?  Thanks.
                 \_ seemed ok driving by on Hearst, but I'm not in that area
                    often.  Can check next week if you like.  It's so-so on
                    5th floor cory - mds
2004/8/13 [Uncategorized] UID:32893 Activity:high
8/13    What happens when a state loses representatives during
        reapportionment?  Someone loses his/her job?
        \_ They have to redistrict before the next election.  *Someone* loses
           their job, but that's how elections go.
              \_ how do they decide who loses their job?
        \_ How do you think 'Survivor' got the idea for voting people off the
           island?
           \_ JeffProbstymandering.
2004/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:32894 Activity:nil
8/13    Hahahahahahaha - The http://cnn.com Quick Vote on the front page is:
        "Would you vote for a gay politician?  (Yes) (No)"
        Guess what the breakdown is ...
        \_ I'd be more interested in "Do you think *your* governor is a
           closeted homosexual?"
        \_ See, I find questions like this sketchy, since while I have
           nothing in particular against gay people, I have yet to meet
           one that I agree with politically.
2004/8/13-15 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Jobs] UID:32895 Activity:very high
8/13    In reference to something from below, how many male sodans actually
        enjoy blowjobs?  I've only ever had one my entire life I really found
        satisfying, out of hundreds of attempts.  Its a pale shadow compared to
        intercourse.  Is it just that no girl knows how to give them, or am I
        just some kind of freak?
        \_ First, tell your grandmother to take her teeth out.
        \_ What's the difference between the wife, the dog, the kids and
           a blowjob?  A:  You can't beat a blowjob.
        \_ Two women I've dated gave good blowjobs.  Others didn't.  It is
           indeed a skill, but some guys don't get off on it at all.
           \_ Practice makes perfect.
           \_ Maybe I just don't get off on it at all.  --op
              \_ Could be. Such is life.
        \_ I enjoy them. Only one women I ever dated gave exceptional
           blow jobs, but I enjoyed all of them.
        \_ I enjoy blowjobs.  My SO says I give excellent ones.  -- male sodan
           \_ that's sick, get off the motd you fuck!
              \_ Dear God!  There are sodomites at the university?!!
                 \_ This would work better if you were at Bob Jones ...
                \_ Why do you hate America?
                   \_ "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are
                      we.  They never stop thinking about new ways to harm
                      our country and our people, and neither do we"
        \_ I think you have a defective gene.
        \_ Have your girl practice on me and I'll tell you whether it's her
           technique or just you.
           \_ To give a fair and balanced assesment, shouldn't you perform
              felatio on the op first?
              \_ that's sick, get off the motd you fuck!
        \_ Black girls on San Pablo give excellent BBBJs
        \_ Black girls on San Pablo give excellent BBBJs -jblack
        \_ Black girls on San Pablo give excellent BBBJs -donkeyboy
           \_ Hey!  Stop posting as me!   -The _Real_ Donkeyboy
           \_ Actually...that's true.
        \_ It's a skill thing like many things in life.  I thought sex was
           always a good thing until the first time I was with a girl who
           rated about -3 on a 1 to 10 skill scale.  Willing, able, no
           talent, bad sex.  Life has its disappointments.  Same deal with BJs.
           \_ Where can one find good technical advice?
           \_ This is kind of an aside, but I dated a young woman with very
              little experience once and she kept biting down on me. So we
              went to Good Vibes and bought a dildo and I showed her what
              I like.
2004/8/13 [Uncategorized] UID:32896 Activity:nil
8/13    Was Iraq allowed to enter the Olympics prior to this year, or were
        they just brutally tortured so no one even wanted to go? I'm curious.
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:13 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>