Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:January:05 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2005/1/5 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:35546 Activity:nil
1/4     The root drive on my OS X box is getting full.  I want to move
        the fink installation /sw to another volume and then create a
        symbolic link for this.  What can possibly be broken by this?
2005/1/5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:35547 Activity:high
1/4     Updated govt. aid figures:
        Australia:      $765m
        Germany:        $680m
        Japan:          $500m
        US:             $350m
        \_ Politicizing disaster relief is sickening.
           \_ http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20050105
        \_ How much has been given privately?  How much does it cost for our
           carrier group and soldiers to be over there helping?
           \_ ssshhhh!
              \_ Sorry, didn't mean to feed the trolls.
           \_ Yeah, but do the Indonesian people think that way?
              \_ Who cares?
2005/1/5 [Computer/Networking] UID:35548 Activity:kinda low
1/5     Has anyone ever got Linux (or any UNIX flavor) to work with a D-Link
        Airplus Wireless PCI card?
        \_ Try ndiswrapper.
        \_ Be more specific about the exact model.  Dlink changes things
           without changing the models.
           http://www.linux-wlan.org/docs/wlan_adapters.html.gz
2005/1/5 [Uncategorized] UID:35549 Activity:nil
1/5     I ran across the word "ipseity" in a poem, and I'm wondering about
        the root ipse, which the oed defines as, "truly himself..." for you
        latin enthusiasts, does this word have an included gender, or is
        the oed just defaulting to male?  Is there an equivalent female or
        gender neutral pronoun?
        \_ please. no poem reading here.. unless it's to solve
        a quest in MUD or something.
        \_ nm!  google says, "ipsa  ipsum," although it doesn't have the
           english "borrow word" connotation of ipse.
2005/1/5 [Uncategorized] UID:35550 Activity:moderate
1/5     Man, I'm trying to log into bearfacts and it's taking a week.
        What's up?
        \_ winter hibernation
           \_ buh-duh-CHA!
2005/1/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:35551 Activity:high
1/4     [WARNING: Libertarian love-fest below]
         \_ Warning: communist dumbass above
            \_ thanks for the case in point, false dichotomy, and needless
               invective
               \_ What makes you think there was any dichotomy?  Or that the
                  invective was needless?  Here's another question:  which of
                  the following responses are "libertarian love-fests"?
        Updated govt. aid figures:
        Australia:      $765m
        Germany:        $680m
        Australia:      $810m
        Germany:        $674m
        Japan:          $500m
        US:             $350m
        \_ Australia's up to $1b now.  The bidding is amazing.
        \_ Politicizing disaster relief is sickening.
           \_ http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20050105
              \_ What?  Isn't Sri Lanka a Buddhist country instead of Muslim?
              \_ *cringe* Given Sri Lanka's history of "disappearing" rebels
                 and collaborators (i.e., from both sides), the second thought
                 that crossed my mind on hearing of the disaster was "Will
                 either side take advantage of the confusion to get rid of
                 rivals?" The same thought could well be applied to Aceh in
                 Indonesia.
           \_ Egeland, the UN Humanitarian Chief, calls this "competitive
              compassion".
        \_ How much has been given privately?  How much does it cost for our
           carrier group and soldiers to be over there helping?
           \_ ssshhhh!
              \_ Sorry, didn't mean to feed the trolls.
           \_ Yeah, but do the Indonesian people think that way?
              \_ Who cares?
        \_ Americans give privately, not through their government. (As it
           should be.) Why don't you add up the contributions to, say, the
           International Red Cross by country?
           \_ Huh, well, personally I believe that forced charity is the
              only real charity.
2005/1/5-6 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:35552 Activity:high
1/5     Phew!  Quit that job just in time!
        http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050105/transmeta_stock_2.html
        --lye
        \_ tell us about transmeta, like was it cool while you were there?
           is the technology really that cool? what did you work on?
           \_ The technology is very cool, but it has become a solution for
              a problem that doesn't exist.  The Pentium M essentially makes
              Transmeta's hardware moot.  The amount of engineering labor
              required to make code morphing really work is immense, and
              it is the kind of labor that PhDs are not fond of.  TMTA is
              staffed with lots and lots of PhDs.  I'm sure you can imagine
              the sorts of management drama that resulted from that.
              I myself worked on x86 verification, which essentially meant
              writing lots of directed tests in x86 assembly that tested
              thousands of corner cases.  In x86, virtually everything is
              a corner case due to legacy support, especially in floating
              point.  I also wrote and managed random testers.  I Learned
              A Lot, but it was Not Fun.

              I also learned that Linus Torvalds is a very nice man who drives
              like a complete maniac.
              --lye
                \_ what kind of car did he drive? and is he a nice guy?
                   \_ Yellow Mercedes Benz SLK32 AMG.  --lye
        \_ Did Ditzel go down in flames too?  I see that he's making $411K
           a year, but did he manage to sell his stock in time?
           \_ Ditzel was well equipped with all manner of golden parachutes.
              While I was there, he typically unloaded 100s of thousands of
              shares a month, which he was optioned at a very low price.
              This is all a matter of public record, I believe.  --lye
        \_ I think this is a very good move, even if they don't make it.
           The code morphing is very cool, I have always thought this would
           be a great match for a next generation of high performance chips.
           A brilliant way to help move away from the aweful x86 ISA. -jwm
           \- you're an idiot.  -tom
              \_ In case you were wondering, this response has gotten old, at
                 least for me. -- ulysses
                 \_ Someone (probably crebbs or erikred) has decided that
                    it's amusing to post that in my name.  I certainly
                    wouldn't use psb's "\-".  And I don't think jwm is an
                    idiot.  -tom
                    \_ dude, fuck off.  What the hell is wrong with you anyway?
                        I didn't post with your username.  It seems obvious
                        that erikred didn't either. Nor did I think it amusing
                        when someone did it in the middle of our thread.
                                        -crebbs
                    \_ Doh! I should have thought of that. -- ulysses
                    \_ tom, I promise you, I have never nor would I ever post
                       under your name. I have a soft-spot for loveable cranks,
                       so I'm not likely to alter or delete your posts, either.
                       Keep on trucking. --erikred
              \_ Tom is right on here, although he probably didn't need to
                 resort to insults.  Code morphing is "cool," but essentially
                 useless.  Is there a word for technolgy like this?
                 Slashdotware? --lye
                 \_ I recently suggested to google scholar that they add
                    an Erdos number calculator. -- ilyas
                    \_ That would fucking rock.  Could you post if they
                       respond?  I wonder if they would be more likely to do
                       it if they got more requests for it.  The only time
                       I sent a suggestion to google(about their calculator)
                       it was totally ignored.
                       \_ What was your suggestion?  I might be able to talk
                          to someone who can get it done.
                       \_ I made another suggestion to scholar a while back
                          that got put on a feature list, apparently.
                            -- ilyas
                 \_ I respect your opinion on this because you know
                    a great deal more than I do about this.  To me it
                    seems that it could be very useful, and in fact
                    practical in the sense that it could be used to solve
                    real problems.  But I am very interested in your take
                    on it as someone with experience.  --jwm
                    \_ It's a very long story - but essentially code morphing,
                       no matter how good it is at individual benchmarks,
                       never "feels" like "real" hardware from the native
                       instruction set that you are emulating.  Translation
                       time lag always leads to a jerkiness and the feeling
                       that the computer is "shifting gears."  This is on
                       top of the fact that getting the translator to do the
                       right thing in all cases while optimizing for
                       performance is extremely hard.  --lye
                 \_ Java is the term I use.
        \_ So what did you work on at Transmeta?
2005/1/5 [Industry/Jobs, Recreation/Humor] UID:35553 Activity:kinda low
1/5     Need someone to show the parents for the holidays but put off by the
        stigma attached to hiring a lady of the night? Now there's a service
        for you:
        http://csua.org/u/al5
        \_ ob hawt bengali potemkin dates for partha
        \_ HAHAHAHA funny funny, thanks for sharing it. Keep up the funny
           links!
2005/1/5 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:35554 Activity:nil
1/5     http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,143400,00.html
        Playboy to Unveil iBods (and this is on the Fox News headline,
        no wonder they're the most watched news regardless of
        obvious political slant).
        \_ Fox panders to sex all the time.  O'Reilly seems to have particular
           problems with this (which made the sexual harassment case consistent
           with his character).
2005/1/5-6 [Uncategorized] UID:35555 Activity:low
1/5     What is the best open source spreadsheet program on *nix?  I tried
        open offce some time ago and it seemed awful.  I don't need fancy
        features.  Just basic functionality, few bugs.  tnx
        \- well there is oleo and various emacs options.
        \_ What version did you try? OO is functional nowadays with 1.3.
           meaning no big bugs. It's still soemwhat slow, so not recommended
           if you're running it on crap machine.
        \_  sc seems to work for trivial stuff.
        \_ I use ooffice as in Fedora Core 3 with no problem and good
           functionality.  --PeterM
2005/1/5-6 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:35556 Activity:kinda low
1/5     WoW players, what are your experiences?  Is it soloable at high levels?
        How does it compare to other games you've played?
        \_ Come to #wow on screwdriver irc.
        \_ Come to #wow on screwdriver.CSUA irc.
        \_ Whether or not it is soloable really depends on class.  DONT be a
           mage if you want to solo!  Paladins probably work the best for that.
           Grouping isn't forced but definitely makes some things easier.
           Very addictive, very well done, great graphics and artwork.
           Crafting seems to largely be a waste/hobby.  Take up two gathering
           clases for professions, just for the money.  Occasional server
           problems, but not more than any MMO I've dealt with. -ERic
           \_ Hunter and warlock are the best solo classes.  All classes can
              solo.
        \_ My younger brother who plays it really likes the fact that PKing is
           encouraged.  Dying isn't a big deal unlike other games - you don't
           lose much time and none of your cash or items.
           And if you don't want to be a PK you can just leave the PK flag off.
           There's also a challenge/duel option where, at the end of the duel,
           the two fighters remain alive and retain their original HP.
           \_ Unless you play on a PvP server, in which case you can't turn
              off the PvP flag in contested or enemy territory.  Also, you
              don't return to your original HP after duels, but at least
              you don't die.  Anymore. -geordan
        \_ In conclusion, nerf paladins. -geordan
2005/1/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35557 Activity:high
1/6     I'm trying to compile an album of famous anti-war songs
        (the ones that have actually made it to the top 100 in the last
        50 years) and I have the followings. Please add to the list,
        thanks for your help:
        Eve of Destruction - Barry McGuire
        Fortunate Son - Creedence Clearwater
        Incense and Peppermints - Strawberry Alarm Clock
        Universal Soldier - Donovan
        War - Edwin Starr
        We Got to Get Out of This Place - Animals
        What's Going On - Marvin Gaye
        Where Have All the Flowers Gone - Kingston Trio
        I Ain't Marching Anymore - Phil Ochs
        \_ I don't think "We Gotta Get Out of This Place" was an antiwar song.
           Bob Dylan's most explicit anti-war songs ("Masters of War" and
           "Blowin' in the Wind") don't seem to have charted, but are famous.
           "Knockin' on Heavens Door" might qualify, as could Les McCann's
           "Compared to What."
        \_ Black Eyed Peas - Where is the Love?
        \_ Kinky Sex makes the World Go Round - Dead Kennedys
        \_ Born in the USA - Bruce Springsteen
        \_ Imagine - Beatles
                     \_ John Lennon
        \_ Puff the magic dragon.
        \_ Puff the magic dragon. -lewis
        \_ http://www.zmag.org/songs/songarchive.htm
2005/1/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:35558 Activity:very high
1/5     Curious, does any of you have problem with Alberto Gonzales'
        nomination?  His memo on terrorism detainees sound a lot like
        what Hitler said before Germany invaded USSR.  Does average peons
        like us has any means to influence the outcome?
        \_ Yes. No.
        \_ No, yes.
        \_ Yes, Yes.
        \_ No, No, are we happy now? hahahahaha
           \_ I am afraid this is a zero-sum game.
        \_ I have questions to ask.  Will you, as attorney general,
           immolate 80 people including women and children because
           they happened to stockpile weapons?
           \_ The idea of Janet Reno carrying a flamethrower is sexy.
           Will you, as attorney general, order
           a SWAT team to steal at gunpoint a child who escaped
           from a Communist totalitarian state, and whose mother
           died bringing him here?
           \_ Wow, you really bought into Cuban exile sob story, didn't you?
              \_ Zaire, Angola, Algeria, Nicaragua, Soviets and Venezuala...
              \_ Zaire,Angola,Algeria,Nicaragua,Soviets,Venezuala & Cuba...
                 put that in your engine and search it!  Yea, an actual
                 understanding of Cuba's geopolitics has made me a real
                 sucker.
           Will you , as attorney general, distract the nation's
           law enforcement for political gain with overwrought
           statements about anti-government militias, while there
           is a Islamic storm on the horizon?
           \_ That's right, you want the FBI (domestic) to stop focusing
              their efforts domestically and instead arrest people outside US.
           \_ Ok, so you hate Janet Reno.  So who was the last non-evil AG?
              If you say Ashcroft, you are beneath contempt.
           \_ Gonzales: As long as you allow me to approve the use of torture
              on Enemy Combatants and hold them as long as I like, I promise
              not to do any of the above.
              \_ yea... thank god Reno did not put underwear on the Branch
                 Davidian's or Elian's head!!!
                 \_ Or imprison them indefinitely without counsel. Or attack
                    them with dogs.  Or electrocute them. Or whatever else it
                    turns out has happened at Gitmo.
                    \_ barking dogs and having your writ of habeus corpus
                       denied by a federal judge... oh the humanity!
           \_ And I have one question:  Why do you hate America?
2005/1/5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35559 Activity:nil
1/5     Message from Iraq: link:tinyurl.com/48lpn
2005/1/5 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:35560 Activity:nil
1/5     Note: the "message from Iraq" was a propaganda video in Windows Media
        Player format.  I didn't erase your link, but unless you're willing to
        be honest about the content, expect it to disappear again.
2005/1/5-6 [Finance/CC] UID:35561 Activity:nil
1/5     Is this site for real?
        http://www.optoutprescreen.com
        They say they'll help you opt-out of receiving pre-approved credit card
        junk mail, but they were registered in August 2004 through GoDaddy.
        (Not that there's anything wrong with GoDaddy, but it seems weird to
        give your name and ssn to a site registered through them.)
        \_ It looks real to me, but if you're not sure, you can always do
           it by phone.  The number 1-888-5-OPTOUT is definitely real (see
           http://www.experian.com/preapproved_credit/opting_out.html
2005/1/5 [Uncategorized] UID:35562 Activity:nil
1/5     Message from Iraq: link:tinyurl.com/48lpn
        Yes this is a propaganda video, but nowadays, what isn't?
2005/1/5-7 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:35563 Activity:very high
1/5     So who else thinks that Linux Kernel Development has gone haywire?
        WTF is up with this movement from an 8k to a 4k stack in the kernel
        that breaks tons of existing drivers that are ported over from
        Windows? And wtf is this crap doing on production distros like
        Fedora? Don't they realize that if you're going to have a large
        install base that you can't arbitrarily do crap like that anymore?
        \_ I agree that they are lame and have always have been, but
           Fedora isn't a production distro. That's RHEL.
           \_ So in other words RH just became even dumber than they used to
              be by foisting Fedora on the user community and charging
              for the bugfree version.
              \_ Fedora is a development platform; that's how it is positioned.
                 If you don't want a development platform, run RHEL, or
                 debian or whatever.  It's not being "foisted" on you.  -tom
                 \_ No shit sherlock. But the problem is that usually what
                    happens in Fedora is just reflected in RHEL. RH being
                    the dumbass company that it is obviously doesn't
                    do anything like do a real-world usability test on
                    its distro so going from one major release to the next
                    results in all your binaries being broken. Also,
                    a lot of end-user end up using Fedora because they
                    stopped distributing RH, so in effect it is being
                    foisted on the userbase with the said userbase
                    complaining about things being broken.
                    \_ you're a moron.  -tom (really)
                       \_ you're tom. -idiot
                          \_ Ouch, now THERE'S a harsh insult.
                       \_ I'm not sure what part you are objecting
                          to, but RH's pricing structure for EL has
                          driven lots of people to use Fedora Core
                          as a production OS. Many times it is hard
                          to justify the added cost of installing
                          EL and a customer choses to deploy FC.
                          You don't really have a choice but to
                          support FC as a application developer.
                          It isn't really practical to tell a customer
                          to install Debian 3.0R3 or something.
              \_ yeah but the bug free version is GPL also. you can try to
                 use CentOS or one of the other RHEL redistributions.
                 unfortunately they still suck as a consumer OS.
                 actually <DEAD>scientificlinux.org<DEAD> looks interesting.
        \_ They break drivers all the time anyway as far as I could tell.
           You're supposed to stick with some old kernel for a long time for
           actual consumer use. But why would you need drivers for Linux?
           It's not like you can play games or really do anything anyway.
           \_ Well, unfortunately since Sun did such a bad job maintaining
              market share us EDA folks are being forced into Linux. Now
              we have to do do crap like recompile the kernel just so the
              stupid display driver works.
              \_ Yeah I use that stuff at work. As long as other people are
                 responsible for making it all work I don't really care.
        \_ I compare the adoption of linux by corporate america to the
           ubiquity of windows.  Some mid-level managers and idiot salespeople
           who thought it gave them cache foisted it upon the world where it
           went batshit crazy and drove us all insane.
           \_ I actually prefer Linux to, say, Solaris or HP-UX. It has
              its limitations, but overall it is cheaper, faster, and
              easier to maintain in many ways.
              \_ ditto. -- SUN guy
                     \_ No offense, but Solaris is a far better
                        operating system.  Just because for a long
                        time Solaris didnt ship with perl and you
                        have to build you own tcpdump doesnt make
                        it otherwise.  If you get involved in the
                        innards of operating systems, this is pretty
                        clear.  There are some SysV things that
                        arent ideal, but if you are trying to debug
                        low-level things, it is pretty clear.
                        \_ Not to mention that drivers actually work
                           in Solaris...
                           \_ Linux has far more working drivers than Solaris.
                              Solaris just works on the very limited hardware
                              Sun provides.  -tom
                           \_ I work for SUN and I've been fighting on driver
                              issue everyday.  And I can tell you flat out
                              that you may think driver works on Solaris, but
                              Linux is the only way to go.  People would
                              write Linux drivers, but SUN relys on 150 people
                              in Beijing to crank out those things one by
                              one.  As hard as those Chinese monkey works,
                              they can never match the speed which hardware
                              comes up.
                           \_ You must live in some other universe. I work
                              for Sun and we have the hardest time getting
                              drivers to work for even simple stuff like
                              gigE nics (ex E1000 driver on S10 was a
                              nightmare for a long time). And you can forget
                              about AGP in most cases. Some big shots felt
                              AGP was the shits so no support in Solaris.
                              There were several cluster deals we couldn't
                              bid on b/c there was no AGP support in Solaris.
                              \_ hey, would you mind if I contact you?
                                        -another SUN guy (id 152093)
                        \_ I think you may be missing the forest for the trees
                           here.  How many people spend their time debugging
                           ``low-level things?''  How many people just want
                           the system to come with a modern version of perl?
                           Once you reach a critical threshold level of
                           stability (which Linux hit some time in 1999 or
                           so) comparing OS internals dick size becomes
                           pointless.
                           \- if you want to say linux is more useful
                              because i can surf my p0rn and play my mpegs
                              "better" that's fine. useful to me !=
                              better os design. it's not a matter of
                              how many people do this. it's more like
                              looking to a kernel crash dump tells you
                              a lot about what is under the hood.
                              \_ In the REAL world, most people write
                                 applications that run on the OS. I
                                 can almost understand that Sun doesn't
                                 want to ship MySQL or PostgreSQL w/
                                 Solaris, but WHY IN PARTHA'S NAME
                                 did they wait till S9U3 to ship wget
                                 in /usr/sfw and S10 to add gcc? I
                                 shouldn't have to go to some website
                                 to download badly packaged freeware.
                                 Every single Linux distro comes with
                                 this stuff pre-installed. Oh yeah,
                                 instead of chkconfig and isc dhcpd
                                 I get svcadm and sun dhcpd which are
                                 complete CRAP.
                                 Linux has its own problems, but one
                                 HUGE advantage of Linux is that you
                                 can tell your customers to get RHEL
                                 3 ES or SuSE Pro, install it in
                                 server config and then install your
                                 software on top of it. The same RPMS
                                 every time, in the same location,
                                 it makes it easy to test, debug and
                                 support. Unlike Solaris where you
                                 have to ship all your 3d party pkgs
                                 you don't have to worry about keeping
                                 up to date with DBI.pm fixes, PostgreSQL
                                 security patches, wget vulnerabilites
                                 &c. The OS vendor takes care of that
                                 so you can concentrate on your app.
                           \_ and for your information, MS Windows hit
                              that threshold by year 2000 with Windows 2000.
                              Despite you may not think that way.
                           \_
              \_ I don't. Solaris + Native Sun HW is definitely a lot
                 easier to setup and better integrated than Linux. Solaris
                 x86 on the other hand makes zero sense. Sun HW also used
                 \_ let me tell you something.  The biggest mistake SUN
                    ever made was terminate its Solaris x86 program back in
                    2000.  Since then, Linux took off.
                                -SUN guy who is trying to sell Solaris10
                                 everyday.
                 to be quality, of course since the U-Sparc 5/10 days
                 this is no longer true. HP-UX is basically dead, has been
                 since the late 90s. I just think it's really lame that
                 in the year 2004 I have to recompile the stupid kernel
                 to get something like UDMA to work. In some ways, Linux
                 sucks because it's just a rehash of 30 year old tecnology
                 on cheap commodity hardware. I mean, shouldn't there be
                 something better than what's essentially just glorified
                 UNIX? In all the years with Linux I haven't really seen
                 anything that really was groundbreaking in terms of
                 kernel dev. I mean, wtf was Torvaldis smoking when he
                 decided he was too lazy to implement a modular structure
                 to the kernel, and why hasn't this been corrected in the
                 15 odd years that Linux has been around?
                 \_ What Torvalds was smoking when he decided he was too lazy
                    to implement a modular structure in the kernel:
                    http://csua.org/u/ale
                    You may bitch, but history shows him to be correct.
                    \_ "correct"...  Linux has become more modular over time,
                       and other OSes haven't sacrificed their modular design
                       at the altar of Linus.  What exactly was he "correct"
                       about?  That linux beat minix?  Big whoop.
                       \_ Hah, exactly my point. It's like saying that
                          the Chinese had stopped charging families for the
                          bullet they execute prisoners with. Going from
                          the Americans had stopped genociding people
                          for human rights, freedom and democracy.  Going from
                          crap to not so crappy isn't exactly innovation.
                \_ the bigger picture is not about technical superiority.
                   and i was hoping you guys notice that when Windows captured
                   98% of the OS market while argueably it is the worse
                   major OS on the market right now.
                   \_ No, the point was that Windows 98 was backwards
                      compatible with Windows 95 which was backwards
                      compatible with Windows 3.11, etc. Now Linux
                      version 2.6.6 isn't even fucking compatible with
                      Linnux version 2.6.5. That's progress?
        \_ Man, this whole thread could be summarised as: OP is upset that
           Linux community doesn't care about 3rd party drivers, and many
           CSUAers continue to deride Linux for not being enough like
           X \in { BSD, Solaris, DomainOS, ... }.
2005/1/5-6 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:35564 Activity:nil
1/5     Dumb unix question, I'm recieveing an scp from my friend, is there
        any way for me to get an idea of the file transfer speed?
        \_ Dumb unix answer: run ls -l on the file repeatedly and guess.
           Or were you looking for something cooler?
           \_ Heh, yeah I did that.  I was hoping for something cooler,
              although that did work. :P
           \_ du -k is cooler. or writing a little perl script to do this
              and print the speed every n seconds.
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/21    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:January:05 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>