Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:March:17 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2004/3/17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:12713 Activity:nil
3/17    http://csua.org/u/6gv
        Government officials insist that they never misled the public, and
        that they released in a timely manner all the information and
        evidence they had gathered. "We told the truth at all times to the
        Spanish people," Acebes said on Monday.  In retrospect, however,
        there were signs that the government was at least selective in
        releasing information about possible culprits. -Washington Post
        \_   http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo
        \_ Consider, though, that there's never been a significant incident
           involving islamists in Spain, they have a long history of ETA
           bombings, and the March 11 attacks bore a lot of ETA hallmarks.)
           Had ETA been responsible, the PP's stance both on domestic
           security and its Iraq policy would have been boosted, whereas
           an attack by islamists would have underlined points made by the
           socialists--it's imaginable that this may have influenced the
           finger pointing, but it doesn't change what seemed pretty obvious
           at first glance.  As for whether the socialists' victory is
           "knuckling under" to terrorists, that's another discussion.  -John
           \_ I think you are being too generous here, John. The morning of
              the attacks, I heard someone from ETA's Sinn Fein say that
              they didn't do it -- he pointed out that ETA always provides
              a warning before they set off a bomb, and there was none
              in this case. And all the terrorism experts I heard said that
              it may have been ETA, but the MO was quite different from
              their past. Plus, the PP persisted in insisting that it was
              ETA for several days, despite mounting evidence to the
              contrary.
                \_ Point taken.  Interesting you use the Sinn Fein analogy--
                   like the IRA, Sinn Fein is pretty fragmented since Spain
                   & France started working together to smash them.  -John
              \_ ETA MO is to set off a bomb and then see what the PR looks
                 like and disclaim responsibility if the PR is negative.  The
                 ETA was stopped from setting off a train bomb just like this
                 last year and last month was busted carting around a large
                 amount of explosives.  It was also reported that the
                 explosives used in Madrid are the same ETA has used a lot in
                 the past.  So fingering the ETA was a good call at the time.
                 Oh yeah, the ETA is also reported to have a new group of
                 younger members moving into higher ranks that are much more
                 aggressive than the original bunch.  It made sense and was
                 believable.  Obviously finding al qaeda tapes, AQ agents and
                 then a posting on an AQ web site last year saying that they
                 could put the socialists in power if they timed it right is
                 good evidence it wasn't the ETA but none of that was known
                 that first day or so.
                 \_ It was the omission of including AQ as suspects that ticked
                    everyone off. There wasn't enough information at the time
                    to make the call and laying blame the ETA without proof
                    made it look politically expedient.
                    \_ ETA was a good first guess.  It was only 48 hours
                       between the bombs and the polls opening.  I think your
                       depiction is really harsh.
                       \_ You should really read the entire article.
                          Then come back and post what you think. -op
        \_ Spain gave in to threats and voted to "appease terrorists" in the
           election Sunday that turned out a top U.S. ally in the
           counterterror war, the top Republican in Congress said Wednesday.
           ... "Here's a country who stood against terrorism and had a huge
           terrorist act within their country and they chose to change their
           government and to in a sense appease terrorists," Hastert said. -AP
           \_ And if the US had gotten more than Spain, Poland, and the UK to
              help police Iraq, the loss would be less apparent.
2004/3/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12714 Activity:insanely high
3/17  It is a cold day in hell when I agree with Patrick Buchanan
      and here I do:
      http://www.amconmag.com/3_1_04/cover.html
      \_ I think that guy is so all over the map politically that it's
         inevitable to agree with him on something eventually.  Even
         a broken clock reads right twice a day.
         \_ No.  He's very consistent.  He simply doesn't fit your nice
            little left/right spectrum.  Not all of us do.
            \_ Perhaps.  More likely, it's because I don't agree with the
               jews, so the enemy of my enemy is my friend, on this
               neocons, so the enemy of my enemy is my friend, on this
               issue.
                 \_ I'm with you on that one.  I hate the jews, too, and if we
               [Yes, yes, you're very clever substituting "jews" for
                "neocons."  We get it.  Now fuck off.]
               \_ I'm with you on that one.  I hate the joo, too, and if we
                  leave the arabs alone for a while, I'm sure they'll
                  eventually get it together and wipe them out.  Just a few
                  short years and the Zionist entity will collapse and the
                    invaders are driven into the sea.
                  all the lands will return to the rightful owners after the
                  invaders are driven into the sea.
         I guess he is more of an isolationist, than some other label
         which people painted him.
           \_ He's always been an isolationist. This is nothing new.
      \_ GO PAT! GO!
                  \_ Sure you do. You can spot a Right Wing troll from
                     a mile away.
                     \_ No, I was showing you what you sound like.  Mockery
                        is a very simple and common rhetorical technique that
                        I thought even the motd could see and understand.  I
                        was mistaken.  Next time I'll put <mockery></mockery>
                        tags around it so dunderheads like you will know.
                        \_ No one sounds like that to anyone, except in your
                           paranoid and delusional brain. No one on the
                           motd says "I hate the jew, too" except for
                           Right Wing psycho trolls like yourself. Learn
                           to distinguish between disagreeing with Isreal's
                           policies and a desire to kill all Jews. Or
                           forever be marginalized by normal, non-hate filled
                           people.
                           \_ You sound like that to me.  Your petty insults
                              don't change anything or cover your racist
                              attitudes.  It's odd how you went from calling
                              Israel your enemy (your word choice) to simply
                              'disagreeing with their policies'.  You're a
                              hater and a racist and you're caught red handed
                              smearing the motd with it.  Tough shit, it's too
                              late to pretend otherwise now.  Why don't you
                              just erase all this instead and pretend you're
                              still a good and just person?
                              \_ First of all, you are responding to a
                                 different person than the one who wrote
                                 the "enemy of my enemy" phrase. Not everyone
                                 who disagrees with you is the same person.
                                 Secondly, it is a phrase, not taken literally
                                 by normal, sane people. Does any individual
                                 consider themselves the "enemy" of a sovereign
                                 power? No one I know. And how is disagreeing
                                 with Likud's policies "racist" again? Are
                                 Isrealis a race? Is the Likud party a race?
                                 Awaiting your reply. The only one who said
                                 they hated all the jews was you, remember.
                             \_ Note that the enemy phrase was applied to
                                "neocons". --some other guy
                                \_ Yeah, but psycho guy decided that he
                                   would change this into "jew" and then
                                   go on a rant about how anyone who
                                   disagreed with the neocons was really
                                   an Anti-Semite who wanted to kill all
                                   the Jews. Interesting political debate
                                   tactic, I must admit.
      \_ very interesting, I also agree with him in this regard.
2004/3/17 [Computer/SW/Database, Consumer/Audio] UID:12715 Activity:nil 50%like:29878
3/16    [ car stereo query deleted because op has an attitude ]
        \_ What? I'm the original poster and this is the first I've
           even seen the thread. Why do you think I have "attitude"?
           I never even got a chance to see the replies.
           \_ "for my asshole. -op"
           \_ I think he meant "Car stereo query deleted because it attracted
              useful responses."
              \_ Whew! 'Cause I tried putting a DVD there and it broke.
        \_ there is no authentication on the motd, you know. -you
2004/3/17-22 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:12716 Activity:nil
3/17    Looking for Oracle DBA/expert in downtown Oakland.
        /csua/pub/jobs/SavageBeast/OracleDBA.txt
2004/3/17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:12717 Activity:nil
3/17    France: Ach, that Stoopid Bush.  We should be nice to terrorists!
                BOOM! Whoops.
        http://csua.org/u/6h1
        \_ Look, it's not that the french wants to be nice to terrorists or
           even muslims.  They just want to be different from the Americans.
           It's an inferiority cplx.
        \_ Don't listen to what the French say, look at what they do.  They
           are right there on the front line with us on the war on terror.
           It's easy for the French media and the average citizen to spout
           off whatever but it's the government that sets policy and it is
           a very pro-American policy no matter what they say in public to
           appease their media.  I've been very pleased with the French
           response to terrorism and how closely they've worked with us.
           \_ everyone supports fighting terrorism, just not invading Iraq,
              which does not help in fight terrorism.
              \_ Way to dodge that red herring!
              \_ Uhm, ok, and that has exactly what to do with the price of tea
                 in China?  Or France?  Or anything else I said?
2004/3/17 [Reference/Religion] UID:12718 Activity:nil
3/17    I thought this was interesting: In nature, there are hundreds of
        documented species that engage in same-gender sex, but there is
        one kind of "lifestyle" that is not found in nature: lifelong,
        voluntary abstinence.  So, the next time some bible-thumping
        individual rants on about gays being "not natural", think about how
        celibate priests don't have an even remotely "natural" sex life.
        \_ There are also many documented cases of species engaged in
           infanticide and cannabalism. So are you suggesting that
           humans should engage in these activities with the sanction
           of society and the state? With loopy thinking like that
           I can justify just about anything. Anyway, the Old
           Testament preaches that humans are differentiated from
           other species, so your argument pretty much falls
           flat on its face. When religious types talk about homosexuality
           as being "unnatural" they mean it goes against their concept
           of what god meant for people, not animals. -- williamc
           \_ So homosexuality, infanticide, cannibalism are all natural.
              Shouldn't people condemn homosexuality by calling it 'sinful'?
              That would be much more accurate.  The only problem is that it
              exposes the fact that their objection is religious, not that
              it somehow hurts society or nature.
              \_ Ummm... The only people I've heard call it "unnatural"
                 are crazy rednecks.  I've have heard people say it's not
                 normal and it's harmful to society though...
                 \_ When you say "only crazy rednecks call it unnatural" you're
                    pre-defining the debate.  It's a cheap rhetorical tactic
                    that would get you kicked out of rhetoric 1a.
        \_ Sorry, you've mixed up your religions.  Any "bible-thumper"
           would be a baptist or some such protestant religion.  Not
           Catholic.  Therefore, they would probably agree with you.
           Priests not being able to marry was one of the arguments for
           the reformation.  Besides, depending on what kind of bible
           thumper you're talking to, they might just say that humans have
           all sorts of "natural urges" that should be quelled, and
           just list Homosexulality under that.  Sorry.
           \_ Catholics disapprove of homosexual marriages.  Please don't
              mislead.
        \_ You also have your sociology mixed up with your animal sciences.
           No one has tried to claim celebacy is normal.  And one of those
           bible thumpers you hate so much would tell you that because Man is
           above Beast that we should not look to the animals for the correct
           way to behave or be closer to God.  Sorry but you're not going
           anywhere with this stuff outside your own self reinforcing social
           circles.
           \_ I think the point is that the "unnatural" label doesn't work.
              You can still call it "sinful" if you wish.
              \_ Can I call it abnormal? I think unnatural works. How else
                 would you describe the obvious disparity between how sex
                 works, and how homosexuals practice it? Our organs and
                 reproduction are clearly designed for opposite sex partners.
                 There are cases of two-headed animals in nature but that
                 doesn't mean that's "natural". Now homosexual attraction
                 is more common but you can't just dismiss the unnatural
                 argument as crazy.
2004/3/17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12719 Activity:nil
3/17    http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo
        Rumsfeld disclaiming the use of immediate threat in the push for war
        ... and then being presented with a direct quote contradicting him.
            \_ (I thought that last part was obvious from the URL) -op
2004/3/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12720 Activity:nil
3/17    John Kerry foreign policy speech.  Who says he's not a leader?
        http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0317.html
        \_ Err.. this is the same guy who a few weeks ago was saying
           Bush was going too far.  Let's flip a coin too see what side
           of the issue he'll be on next!
           \_ Nice use of talking points without reading speech.  Excellent
              job of not thinking for yourself.  Yay!
              \_ Oh, I read the speech.  Mostly it was the usual political
                 crap saying, "When I am president, money will fall from
                 the sky, and [you whoever you are] will have the newest
                 and best of everything!  Don't worry, there will be no
                 problems when _I_ am president!"
                 \_ Nothing like the motd for cynicism, shortsightedness,
                    narrowmindedness, and stupidity!
                    \_ And insults with no point! And blaming everything
                       on the guy you don't like!
2004/3/17 [Uncategorized] UID:12721 Activity:nil
3/17  "Free Hotmail users: If you do not wish to receive Hotmail member
        letters, you may close your Hotmail account."
        \_ And this is surprising how?  Of course free service users will get
           ads.
        \_ does hotmail let you filter things based on patterns?
           just filter stuff from http://microsoft.com .  i use
           http://catholic.org for free webmail, it's awesome.
2004/3/17-30 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:12722 Activity:nil
3/17    What are some URL condensing sites?
        there's tinyurl, http://csua.org, what else?
        \_ http://hugeurl.com
        \_ My favorite: http://makeashorterlink.com
        \_ I like http://snurl.com. It does some cool stuff with the clipboard
           so you just have to copy, visit the site, and paste the url.
           No need to fill out a web form or anything.
2004/3/17 [Consumer/Audio, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:12723 Activity:nil
3/17    I want to change my stereo and add a DVD player. Anyone know of a good
        shop and a good brand?
        \_ Depends on your budget.  Rotel and Parasound make well regarded
           entry hi-end stuff.  Also check out brands like Nad, Adcom, B&K,
           etc.  Nothing wrong with better quality consumer grade DVD players
           from Panasonic.  There are a whole set of different brands if you
           want hi hi-end.  I've mostly hacked the installation myself.
           It's really not that hard to hack on X10 stuff for home automation,
           so no reason to pay a custom installer if you can afford the time.
        \_ I've heard good things about Outlaw components if you don't mind
           buying stuff that 99% of the world has never heard of.
           They don't spend any money on advertising.
           \_ A friend has the now discontinued Outlaw receiver.  There
              were some video features that never quite worked correctly,
              but 90% of the receiver worked well and sounded great.
        \_ I know you didn't ask, but if you are also looking for speakers,
           Ascend makes some great ones that are quite inexpensive.
           \_ Also check out the eponymous PSB.
              \_ I didn't know partha made speakers!
                 \_ In fact he was hawking his speakers on motd, back when
                    there was neither ebay nor craigslist.
2004/3/17 [Uncategorized] UID:12724 Activity:nil
3/17    Anybody have any stories they can share about the Sterling Institue?
        \_ Just say "no" if they ask if you want an anal probe. It's not
           as fun as they say it is.
2004/3/17-18 [Uncategorized] UID:12726 Activity:nil
3/17    who was the austin texas guy?  if i were there RIGHT
        now THIS WEEK I would go see this tomorrow:
        http://www.sxsw.com/music/showcases/pages/6222.html - danh
        \_ SXSW is awesome. I went on Trilogy's dollar back in the .com era.
2004/3/17-18 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12727 Activity:nil
3/17    In American Pie, is Jim suppose to be Jewish?
        \_ James is a Christian name.
           \_ So everyone named James is Christian?
              \_ I would not try to claim that I know what every single
                 person on the planet earth might decide name their kid.
        \_ He *looks* like a Jew, right?  But he doesn't wear one of those
           beanie hates so maybe he isn't....
        \_ the character's last name is "Levinstein".
           \_ thats a jew name?
2004/3/17-22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12728 Activity:nil
3/17    Over 30 open jobs at Transmeta, mostly in the Senior Circuit Designer
        and Layout type of jobs, but also some test engineering and a couple of
        senior software positions.  Sorry I can't be more specific, but there's
        32 slots and you probably don't want them all here in bushy detail.
        Email me if interested.  --lye
        \_  What's the salary for the Senior IC Designer? Thanks.
           \_ Don't know this information, sorry.  --lye
        \_ Please post this on the India's job site. -- GWB
           \_ What is *your* plan to stop outsourcing to India?
              \_ nothing.  Outsourcing is good for you if you still have a job.
                 It allows companies to stay competitive.  Do you want your
                 company to shutdown and lay you off? -- GWB
                 \_ ok so the troll doesn't have a plan, just negativity.
                 \_ ok so the troll doesn't have a plan, just relativity.
                     \_ Hey sir!  I am trying my very best to protect your
                        sorry ass company. -- GWB
                           \_ but true.
                 \_ ok so the troll doesn't have a plan, just relativity.
                        sorry ass company. -- GWB
                        \_ yawn.
        \_ 32?  So you're starting over?
           \_ No, it's an expansion for a future product, I think.  These are
              new positions, not old positions being refilled.  Why do I
              get the feeling I've just answered a non-serious inquiry? --lye
              \_ it was semi-serious.  the first products out didn't exactly
                 take over the world after all the hype about killing Intel,
                 etc, secret messages in home page, etc.
                 \_ Yeah, true that.  I didn't work there then, oh well.
                    Surprise, they're still around!  Anyway, they're only
                    jobs...Some people need them.
                    \_ That's cool.  Never drink the koolaid at any company
        \_ oh. Your company is still alive?
           \_ what do you mean still alive?!  My favorite simian stock
           \_ Is Ditzel still running the show there?  Oh you poor pups.
              picker says the stock of lye's employer is a buy!:
                http://www.trudythemonkey.com
           \_ TMTA has $110 mill in cash and short-term investments. -tom
           \_ Is Ditzel still running the show there?  Oh you poor pups.
2004/3/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12729 Activity:nil
3/17    Are you making many post-college friends?
        \_ Yes: (1) got involved with community-based organizations
           serving Asian immigrants and Filipino Am. yuppies; (2) went
           to yoga centers; (3) volunteered to work on an indie film
           (which eventually got distributed by Sony Pictures); and
           (4) became a groupie of a Chicago alt-country band. Not bad
           \_ that's kind of gross. - danh
              \_ not *that* kinda groupie. -elizp
           for a neurotic introvert, and it's been fun. -elizp
                \_ I've got so many goddamn post college friends
                   I really have trouble keeping track of them all.
                   \_ http://www.plaxo.com!!!  spam them enough and you won't have
                      so many to keep track of.
        \_ Yes: mostly through work, some through old college friends,
                a few through hobbies.
        \_ I made lots of friends at http://freerepublic.com
        \_ Yes, mostly through work or friends of old friends I've known.
2004/3/17-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12730 Activity:nil
3/17    How can I change the indentation level in xemacs when writing C
        and Java?  I looked online, and through the help files but
        couldn't find anything.  (It's currently set at 4, I want 2)
                -jrleek
        \_ I thought the motd censor liked technical posts.  Why hasn't
           he answered this one?
           \_ The motd censor doesn't actually contribute anything.
              \_ Just to make it fair: all technical topics purged.  So
                 take *that* you motd censor bastard!  Now you've got nothing
                 to read and can go choke on your own delete key.
2004/3/17 [Computer/SW/Editors, Computer/SW/Apps] UID:12731 Activity:nil
3/17    I need to edit a PDF file, what's the best program to use?  It's
        strictly text changes, no graphics/format alterations, so I'd
        prefer something not too expensive but effective.  Cad-Kas's
        PDF editor didn't work too well, and a few others can't handle
        text when it's flipped 90 degrees.
        \_ Well, Acrobat (not Reader) is obviously the best choice. Fair
           warning, though, pdf isn't really made for editing.
        \_ agree with above.  Acrobat version 6 is a blowed beast, though,
           so you are being warned.  Moreover, not all PDF files are editable
           even if you have all the tools you needed.  No, I am not talking
           about digital signature what not.  I am talking about when PDF
           files are being made, there are number of things author can do
           which make PDF file editing difficult.  First, he/she can convert
           everything into bitmap, in that case, you are out of luck.
                 \_ Acrobat OCR is pretty darn good, actually.
           Secondly, if he/she embedded certain fonts inside the document,
           and if you don't have that font, I am not sure how would that turn
           out.                         -kngharv
2004/3/17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12732 Activity:nil
3/17    Clearly, the motd consists entirely of people that have already made
        up their mind about whatever politician they're going to vote for or
        whatever the issues of the day/week/year happen to be.  Any political
        discussion on the motd is completely pointless, so why don't we all
        just agree not to talk about it?  Its just grating and annoying, and
        all discussions inevitably boil down into the same tired arguments.
        You're not convincing anyone and nobody cares, so just give up.  Please.
        Spare us.
        \_ Or you could just erase everyone else's posts!  Hey.....
           \_ Apparently already being done.  Come on, you _know_ the motd is
              charged with political rants that you don't like, so drop out
              already.  You stop reading, and I guarantee we'll stop annoying
              you.
              \_ Maybe because when people aren't being such spouting off and
                 being arrogant, something entertaining slips through?  Its
                 been known to happen.  Then again, maybe a plea for sanity
                 is pointless - maybe Internet forums by their very nature
                 simply bring out the absolute worst in people.
                 \_ Absolutely true!  And the only answer is to develop a
                    really thick skin and not take it all so personally.
                    \_ *And* get the fuck off the motd if the op doesn't like
                       what the rest of us are talking about.
        \_ I learn new stuff from the motd all the time. But then again,
           I have not decided that it is all worthless ranting, like you
           have. -ausman
           \_ I very strongly agree with you.  There are lots of online forums
              where there is some dominant ethos, and everyone else is an
              outsider.  i think the motd is much more interesting because
              it's such a crap shoot what you're going to get on any given
              topic.  And yes i've learned things and read thing I wouldn't
              have otherwise because of the motd.
              \_ I also concur.  motd helped me get though Berkeley.  I
                 like hearing from crazy people, but it's nice to hear
                 from some conservitive crazies too sometimes.
              \_ See, that's where I disagree.  Its not a crapshoot.  The motd
                 response to almost any post on a political subject is
                 completely predictable - c.f. Bush, Kerry, Isreal/Palestine,
                 Iraq, gay marriage, outsourcing, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.
                 --op
                 \_ You're entirely and 100% correct.  You're figured out our
                    Secret Plan To Personally Bore You To Death(c)!  Now that
                    you have it all figured out the only way to save yourself
                    is to not play.  We'll miss you.
                 \_ You mean that people will disagree and post arguments
                    for and against varying positions backed by urls?
                    Yeah, I guess I agree with that. If you mean that you
                    already know what those arguments will be, I think
                    you are full of yourself. Tell me what the varying
                    positions would be to a discussion about resetting
                    the yuan/dollar exchange rate. -ausman
                    \_ No one would express a substantive opinion.  One of the
                       anonymous trolls would say something inflammatory about
                       the Chinese, and it would degenerate into discussion
                       of the Nanjing Massacre, internment camps, and
                       the atrocities of Maoism.  -tom
                        \_ if that were to happen, at least i'd learn something
                           but the nanjing massacre, which i've never even
                           heard of.
                           \_ Nice troll.  *clap*
                    \_ you want to adjust the yuan/dollar exchange rate?  you
                       racist, neocon, commie queer lover!  i hate you!
        \_ Not all the arguments are like that. Occaisonally they have some
           semblance of reasoned debate, for a while. Anything touching on
           Israel in any way becomes totally pointless however.
           \_ Isn't this true no matter where you are?  Name a group of
              people past Jr. High Age that don't already have a set in
              stone opinion on Israel.
              \_ Since Jr. High, my opinion has changed as follows:
                 "Israel is our ally and they're being attacked by terrorists"
                 to "Arafat is being placed in a bad position and means well."
                 to "Wow, the Oslo Accords look like a good solution."
                 to "Arafat is an ass."
                 to "Both sides have hard-line idiots who will prevent peace
                     for a long time to come."
              \_ I would doubt that many intelligent people have a rigid
                 position on such a complex situation.  -tom
              \_ Anyone who actually takes the trouble to go visit
                 is likely to have their eyes opened.
              \_ Of those who follow politics etc., they probably have certain
                 ideas formed. But even Israelis don't have a unified stance
                 on the Palestinians. We have a guy on motd who has one view
                 and takes anything else as a personal attack.
                 \_ That's the problem with the motd right there though.  Most
                    people probably want a place to inform each other about
                    various entertaining stuff, job opportunities, notices,
                    what have you.  But due to a couple of people with some
                    really serious axes to grind, its just an 850 line
                    blob of the same old ranting garbage drowning out the
                    useful stuff.  And no, I am not the Humorless Motd Censor.
                    --op
                    \_ you're full of shit.  just watch who posts for a day.
                       there are dozens of people participating in the political\
                       discussions on any given day.  I for one *only* log
                       in for the political discusssions, and really really
                       don't give a shit about some pc fan noise question
                       or the latest linux distro.  not that i delete them,
                       i just ignore them.
                       \_ Maybe we need a motd.politics?  My point was that
                          the axe-grinders pretty much routinely wreck whatever
                          meaningful discussion might happen, but you'd rather
                          just tell me i'm "full of shit" and thus inadvertantly
                          demonstrate why the motd sucks.
                          \_ Maybe you are right. Ask the politburo if you
                             can do it.
                             \_ You could just put it in /tmp. But fat chance
                                of it really getting used.
                                \_ Or you could create /tmp/motd.$USER and you
                                   could use that for discussion.
2004/3/17 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:12733 Activity:nil
3/17    I have never programmed on pc, so here is a very basic question:
        does window comes with a free development package that is ready to
        use and fully functional, like xcode/project builder for os x or
        gnu stuff for unix?  or do I have to pay $$$?
        \_ Cygwin.
           \_ what a useless response. op: this is NOT what you are
              looking for.
        \_ no, it doesn't include any dev stuff, but you can use free tools
           to develop full-featured applications:
           Environment: cygwin is good, MS offers a free Unix tools pkg
           Compiler: I use gcc on cygwin, or Sun's javac
           IDE: eclipse (java/c++), netbeans, emacs
           GUI building: netbeans (java), Qt (c++; your app must be GPL)
           Other: Python has some good toolkit support as well
           \_ doesn't gcc on cygwin generate binaries that also are dependent
              on cygwin?  MinGW + Msys might be a good alternative.
        \_ there is a development kit:
           http://www.bloodshed.net
           Never tried, but a lot open-source software are developed using
           that.
2004/3/17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12734 Activity:nil 50%like:30465
3/17    soda was very slow just now.  What was going on?
        \_ The usual motdedit war?
        \_ This is often from spam flurries tripping all the spamassassin
           checks.
2004/3/17 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:12735 Activity:nil
3/17    Say I have a CGI in Perl and I want to call another script, and it
        happens to be another Perl script. How to invoke it without using
        system(...), which will actually make it slow?
        \_ make the other script a module and import it.
        \_ ``, system, or as the person above said, create a module and
           import it
2004/3/17 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:12736 Activity:nil
3/17    In Perl, when I "use strict;", how do I declare a global array
        or global hash? use vars qw (@ASSOC, %KEYHASH); doesn't work...
        \_ At the start you can declare "my @array", and everything in that
           scope or below will see it. --scotsman
        \_ It should be:
           use vars qw(@ASSOC %KEYHASH);
           (no comma)
           I believe in perl >= 5.6 you can say:
           our (@ASSOC, %KEYHASH);  --dbushong
2004/3/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12737 Activity:nil
3/17    Anyone know how to increase the linux console buffer size?
        ie, the one you get with shift-pageup? thx.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:March:17 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>