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2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    

2002/1/15-16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23568 Activity:nil
1/15    How feasible is it to work for a professor as an RA, programmer, or
        sys adm after you've graduated? How's the pay?  -graduating senior
        \_ Dunno about RA but the others fall under Programmer/Analyst.  The
           department will need to open a job req, take resumes from the public
           for a period of time, interview a minimum number of candidates and
           then justify hiring you for the job.  The pay is very far below
           industry assuming you can get an industry job.  You may or may not
           work as much as the typical industry person depending on the prof.
2002/1/11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23528 Activity:insanely high
1/10    I haven't done technical interviews in a really long time and
        now they make me nervous. I already screwed up one, not because
        I didn't know how to answer the questions but because I was so
        nervous. Is there any way to "prepare" for a technical interview?
        any advice?
              \_ Don't get nervous. Do more interviews, do more practice.
                 Plenty of jobs out there. Relax, think positive, it'll
                 \_ plenty of jobs?  apparently you are employed.
                 happen when the time is right. Don't focus on yourself.
        \_ bring a breath mint, wear some deoderant, and calm down.
           \_ it wasn't a matter of hygiene, but thanks for the advice i guess.
              \_ Don't get nervous. Do more interviews, do more practice.
                 Plenty of jobs out there. Relax, think positive, it'll
                 happen when the time is right.
                 \_ plenty of jobs?  apparently you are employed.
                 happen when the time is right. Don't focus on yourself.
        \_ Did you forget things you learned in school?  Did you lack
           enthusiasm for the job or were unable to feign it?
           \_ yes, part of it is i've forgotten some stuff from school, which
              is why i'm so much more nervous now than i was when i
              interviewed right out of school. plus the market was hot
              then. is it really starting to heat up again? -original poster
           \- i did a bunch of interviews recently including interviewing
           some pretty nervous people. all i can say is "if you dont know,
           dont ramble. say i dont know and move on." --psb
                \_ what kinds of questions do you usually ask people?
                   \- it depends whether it is a sysadmin job or a programming
                   job. usually i dont ask about general programming questions
                   like basic familiarity with hashes and linked lists but
                   more conceptual stuff about networking and reasonably
                   deep familarity with things like signals, processes groups,
                   streams, maybe some stuff on memory, tcp state diag. of
                   course if it is for a junior sys admin maybe a question
                   on regexps, icmp, dns. i also dont ask logic puzzles,
                   although i am tempted to ask one like "you are in a canoe
                   with a bowling ball on a lake. you throw it into the
                   water. does the level of the lake go up or down". --psb
                   \_ I think the level of the lake goes down, assuming the
                      bowling ball sinks.  Correct?
                      \_ it does go down, but only because the splash from
                         the ball will increase the surface area, increasing
                         the evaporation rate.
                         \_ My reflex is to say that it would go down because
                            the bowling ball's weight causes the canoe to
                            displace more water than the bowling ball's volume,
                            but I haven't really thought about it.  I'd be
                            interested in hearing the answer.
        \_ read up on something technical that your interviewers likely
           forgot about, and then say "that question is analogous to..."
           subject x. then they'll feel too embarrassed to admit
           you know something they don't!
           \_ Whenever I hit situations like this while conducting interviews,
              I simple say "I don't know that" and ask the candidate to
              explain it to me.  So he has no way out.
        \_ The last time I interviewed, I worked up a set of questions
           for the position and had someone interview me with them.
           It really helped keep me comfortable when many of the
           same questions came up in the interview.  -tom
2002/1/5-6 [Computer, Industry/Jobs] UID:23472 Activity:nil
1/4     hitech SUCKS.
        \_ hitech is awesome - much better than that lame stuft burritto
           crap at tacohell.  Too bad they don't have more South Bay
           restaurants.
        \_ Hitech had decent deals on components, but their Berkeley office
           closed down.
2001/12/18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23290 Activity:nil
12/16   Dear Economics Department Chair, Placement Officer, and/or
        Placement Assistant:
          Please pardon the impersonal nature of this cry for help.  As you
        may know, the Federal Communications Commission is experiencing
        major mail delivery problems as we deal with the possibility of
        contaminated mail.  We have received very little mail since early
        October.  This has made it difficult for interested job
        candidates, either graduate students or faculty in transition, to
        respond to our advertisement in Job Openings for Economists.  I
        am therefore writing to request that you disseminate to any
        interested parties the attached "broadside" explaining our
        situation and providing email and fax contacts to be used by
        anyone interested in submitting information to us.  I know that
        interview schedules in Atlanta are filling up rapidly, so I hope
        that you or someone in your department can post this information
        soon.
          Thanks in advance for your help and best wishes for a happy
        holiday season.
          Sincerely,
          Jonathan D. Levy Deputy Chief Economist FCC
        The Federal Communications Commission will have several positions
        for Ph.D. level economists  (GS-12 to GS-15) beginning in 2002.
        We seek candidates with expertise in a field of applied
        microeconomics such as industrial organization and candidates
        with expertise in statistics or applied econometrics.  Experience
        in telecommunications and/or regulatory policy is a plus, but not
        a necessity. These positions will primarily involve the domestic
        and international telecommunications industry, the broadcast, and
        cable industries, and the development of policy recommendations
        for the FCC. The current salary range for a GS-12 to GS-15 is
        $53,156 to $114,224.  The beginning salary will be based on
        background and research accomplishments.  Interested individuals
        should submit a vita, 3 references or letters of recommendation,
        and a writing sample to Director of Recruiting, Office of Plans
        and Policy, 445 12th St.  SW, Washington, DC 20554.  Any of this
        material available in electronic form should also be sent to
        jlevy@fcc.gov. Other material, including letters of
        recommendation, may be faxed to (202) 418-2807. The FCC budget
        has been approved by Congress and signed by the President, but
        the total number of positions available has not yet been
        determined.  We plan to interview at the Allied Social Science
        Meetings. U.S. citizenship required.  The FCC is an equal
        opportunity employer
        \_ another reason to go to grad school even if it's not in CS.
           \_ Hardly. Non-CompSci BA.  $120k.  GS15 = 114k with PhD and all
              that other crap?  And I get to play with millions of dollars of
              cool toys in between surfing marathons and I'm not a government
              employee.  That last part is the most important.
2001/12/18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:23287 Activity:insanely high
12/17   Where can I get a poster of Cal pictures (e.g. poster of Sather gate
        or tower, Soda Hall, etc etc?) -Cal sick alumni with a windowless
                                cubicle who hates working in the industry
        \_ http://www.OCF.Berkeley.EDU/~oso/calpics/sather.jpg
           \_ Isn't that from some Playboy College Interview or something?
              \_ are you familiar with the capabilites of the Google
                 toolbar's "Up" button?
                 \_ Did I mention Brooke was my girlfriend until I dumped her?
                    \_ It's strange that http://images.google.com doesn't find any
                       pics for her when searching for "Brooke Williams".
                       \_ it's brooke BERRY now
                          \_ get off my dick.
                       \_ Berry is her real last name.  Williams was an alias.
                    \_ Nice tits!  From your experience are those real?
                        \_ Oh yeah!  They're real!  The doctor said they were
                           as good as the real thing!  Try the pencil test.
                 \_ No, sorry.
        \_ Reprint Mint on Telegraph should have some of the Ansel Adams
           images.  -tom
           \_ Ansel Adams has images of UCB?
                \_ Yes, he did a whole series of Berkeley shots.  -tom
                \_ http://photo.ucr.edu/photographers/adams -lcddave
           \_ any color print? I'm a color kinda person.
                \_ why don't you go there and look.  Sheeze.  -tom
              \_ I too thought Ansel Adams only took B&W pics, but at the
                 "Anzel Adams at 100" exhibition in SF I actually saw a few
                 color postcards.  -- yuen
                \_ he did some color prints, but he wasn't happy with
                   the quality available at the time.  He also basically
                   invented a developing system for black and white prints,
                   and his developing skills wouldn't really carry over.  -tom
                   \_ wow, that's like us, developing awsome UNIX skills
                      that are so esoteric that they will not be carried over
                      to the next few decades
                      \_ Yeah, except for the awesome part.  -oj
                      \_ People still create great pictures in black and
                         white.  -tom
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    

2001/12/11-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23210 Activity:low
12/10   I found the following book pretty useful. If you're a laid off dotcomer
        or who is no longer passionate about technology, buy this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580082424/qid=1008053251/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_11_2/104-1528290-4681515
        \_ dotcommer: noun, pl dotcommers; the marketing chick who made 4 times
           what she'd make in the real world.  Dotcommers != techies with
           skills.  You'll never see a "dotcommer profile" in the papers with
           a code monkey, or any sort of IT people.  The one they did profile
           a year or so ago turned out to be a fake.  I do wonder what becomes
           of all the ex-execs.  One company I was at was run into the ground
           by the 27-29 year old founders.  Had Stanfurd degrees and Softbank
           money for a year.  What does someone like that do after they kill
           an otherwise perfectly good little startup?
2001/12/7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23171 Activity:high
12/6    What job sites are people getting most mileage from these days?
        I am talking about senior engineers who have been laid off thanks
        to dot.bombs.
        \_ http://dice.com
        \_ http://hotjobs.com worked for me -ausman
           \_ as a recruiter, I prefer http://hotjobs.com for job postings
              and searching for new resumes. -mas
              \_ so from a recruiter, can you tell me why companies emphasis
                 only on industrial experience?  I can understand if someone
                 wasn't a CS major turned programmer, then yeah industrial
                 experience is what indicates that person's skill.  However,
                 most industrial programming is not as rigorous as UCB projects
                 This is my second job.  1st job I was doing win32 programming,
                 this job I am doing Java programming.  Compare to UCB CS
                 projects they are so simple.  I do have a few co-workers here
                 who were purely industrially turned programmers.  I constantly
                 hear them bitching about how hard it is to debug in java; and
                 get this, they don't trust what the error message says from
                 the compiler/server, incredible!  The problem is they don't
                 have the skills to track down a problem.  They have about 6-10
                 years industrial exp, whereas I have only 4.  Buy their 6-10
                 is nothing from what I see. =D
                 \_ you have stumbled onto the Great Equestrian Paradox:
                    why are there more horse's asses in the world than there
                    are horses?
                 \_ sounds like you're working with a bunch of idiots...
                    find a new job or ask for a raise.    - ! a recruiter
                 \_ Skills vary. Companies trust Industry because they can't
                    tell much from school experience, even prestigious schools.
                    Being good at school doesn't always translate into being
                    good in the industry. Working in teams, within standards,
                    with changes happening constantly, being on time and on
                    budget without burning yourself or those around you out
                    are some of the considerations. Unless you've done
                    something impressive while at school, you need to earn
                    trust and respect. It sucks, but that's life.
                 \_ I've interviewed PhDs from good schools with years of
                    experience that couldn't code a simple TCP server.  I
                    believe that it comes down to the person rather than
                    what experience they have (school or job-based).
                    What really sucks is when someone with a lot of experience
                    is interviewing for a coding job, but gets insulted when
                    you ask them a coding question during the interview.
                    They expect their experience to get them the job without
                    having to prove that they can code.  Those types don't
                    get past the first round where I work.
2001/11/13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23023 Activity:high
11/12   Let's say that I'm a bored sysadm and I want to join the Reserves.
        What would they have me do, IT stuff, scrubs or what?
        \_ which reserves? Police or military?
        \_ Whatever they need.  After you sign up, they can reassign you and
           activate you as needed.  If they feel like activating you and using
           you as an infantryman, they can and will do so (I assume you meant
           military reserves).
           \_ This doesn't really happen. You do what you are trained to do.
              When you sign up, you and the recruiter decide what your job
              would be.
              would be. -ausman
                \_ don't they first give you a personality test and an IQ
                   test? I heard that the smart people work on intell stuff
                   and the dumb people get put on the front line.
        \_ Would you want to do IT stuff?  If you're a bored sysadm, infantry
           will be an exciting change!
2001/11/9-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:22992 Activity:kinda low
11/9    I've a boss who is impossible to work for -- he has to show that he is
        superior at every occasion and had staff meeting once every 1 or 2
        months. should i just quite and look for a new job? how is the market?
        \_ You think that's bad?  I have a boss would never listen, wanted
           to write a batch file that automate a telnet session, never had
           a staff metting for the 11 months I've worked for him.  Job
           market is bad. Stay where you are.
        \_ I thought there was justice when my ex-boss was pushed into
           retirement due to gross incompetence. Then I found out he left
           because of a sexual harassment issue. Oh well, he's gone anyway,
           and my life's been happier since.
        \_ Staff meeting every 1 or 2 months? Is that it? Is this
           your direct boss or your VP? Every place I have worked at
           has weekly staff meetings. Oh, keep your job, especially
           if you work in the Bay Area.
        \_ The market is softer than it was last year, but it still exists.
           It never hurts to poke around and see if your speciality is in
           demand enough to warrent quitting. An impossible boss will drive
           you nuts. Looking for a new job will at least give you some sense
           of hope.
        \_ I have a boss whose sole job is to ask me how my projects are doing
           and not actually manage me.  He doesn't care whether it's late or
           not or whatever.
        \_ I was recently made a team lead, what do you guys want out of
           a manager?
           \_ For me: provide suffucient information to get something done.
              My current manager gives me half described and very vague
              little projects which just means I have to go back and ask what
              the hell she wants.  Today's: tell the vendor how we want the
              Sun A5200 setup.  How the hell should I know?  I didn't even
              know we were buying one or what we're attaching it to.
        \_ Job market is sucking but exists.  Do not ever quit a job before
           you have a new one in hand.
2001/11/7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:22969 Activity:nil
11/7    Be the Man!  Oakland Police looking for cadets; must be full-time
        college students:
        /csua/pub/jobs/OP
2001/10/26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:22835 Activity:very high
10/25   Okay, why do BART workers need a 22% raise over 4 years?  That's
        way more than inflation.  They can get away with this only because
        the union perceives BART as vital to the area.  In that case, we
        should all boycott BART.
        http://www0.mercurycenter.com/premium/local/docs/054509.htm
        \_ I have no problem with BART. I have no problem with people
           getting raises. I have no problem with people going on
           strike. What I have a problem with is people getting
           guaranteed raises over a set number of years. I have to
           work for my raise. I earn it. No one should get more
           money, no matter how good their work is. We are all
           watching the inbreeding of laziness.
           money regardless of the quality of their work. We are
           all watching the inbreeding of laziness.
        \_ it's extortion, as far as i'm concerned.  fuck them.  if
           i were mayor of sf, that last strike would have ended
           *very* differently.
            \_  These guys, as noted below, aren't even professionaly trained.
                Lots of them earn $60-$80+K for the work they do, and yet
                these motherfuckers complain about not getting paid enough.
                Civil engineers are the guys who should be getting this
                kind of salary (mean = $40K entry), not BART people.  -- jj
        \_ oh come off it, geek boy.  I'm sure you've gotten more than a 22%
           raise over the past 4 years.  -tom
           \_ ya, but he has no union-protected job security. in fact, he's
              probably unemployed.
           \_ I don't hold a gun to anybody's head to get a raise.  There
              lies the difference.
                \_ so you never told anyone, if I don't get this raise I walk?
                   actually you probably didn't have to because until recently
                   most tech comapnies needed oyu and gave you the raise
                   premtivly.  But BART guys don't get to get a solo raise.
                   It is for everyone there or none of them.
                   \_ If one engineer walks, it typically won't cripple
                      the company.  So that's not holding a gun to their head.
                   \_ anyone can do BART jobs. there's no professional skill
                      involved that needs years of training, like e.g. nursing.
                      they don't get a solo raise because they don't f'n deserve
                      one.
              \_ Neither did the BART employees.
           \_ And this last batch was the "professionals" and managers.  Since
              when do managers have a union??  Ridiculous.  Next we'll have
              top level corporate execs with unions bitching to the board
              that they need million$ more per yer or the executive's union
              is going on strike.  It's pure greed.  They should have all been
              fired.  There's *lots* of qualified unemployed people around the
              \_ like any of you geek boys would deign to drive a BART train
                 for a living.  Open your eyes.  -tom
                 \_ Hey, if they're gonna get paid more than us, why not?
              SF Bay Area these days.
              \_ Exactly.  Since the law allows unions to prohibit employers to
                 hire non-union workers or to fire union members during
                 strikes, why doesn't the law also set a limit on how much
                 raise the union can ask for?  If the law is to make it a
                 non-free market, why doesn't the law make it non-free to both
                 sides?
            \____\_ Now you're getting snippy and saying stupid stuff. The
                    low-level managers are mostly promoted up from the ranks.
                    They are paid less than one would expect for their level
                    of experience, but are willing to do the job because of
                    the union and their pensions. Firing them all is plain
                    stupidity. And because unions do vote, they help form
                    the laws which, oddly enough, benefit them.  Sheesh.
                    \_ I don't know about the low-level managers, but I saw
                       a job posting at a station which offers up to $50k+ for
                       an office clark position requiring only high school
                       education.
           \_ Maybe he has gotten more than a 22% raise over the past 4
              years, but he probably did it through promotions.  What the BART
              workers got is 22% over 4 years at the same job positions.
        \_ 22%/4yrs is what they finally got.  What they were asking for was
           even more.  I think it was 29% over 3 years.
2001/10/21 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:22787 Activity:high
10/19   They are laying off 5 people in my group within the next two
        weeks? Don't know who yet, they won't tell us. What should I do
        in preparation?
        \_ How many in your group?  Work on your resume.  Start your job
           search now.  Don't wait to get axed.  If you have, uh, "special
           access", abuse it and read HR and Finance's email to see who is
           on the black list.  BTW, you're not the person from a few months
           ago posting that his startup was the one going to make it but who
           refused to post the url, are you?  The one who thought that only
           slackers get cut in layoffs and good people are always retained?
           The one who thought that only bad companies with all bad people go
           under or can't get VC these days?
           \_ No, that was me.
              \_ Hi, you!
              \_ are you a homosexual?
                 \_ Are you Aspolito?  If not, why do you care?
           \_ Yeah, got my resume and will probably take vacation before
              the job search(but already know what companies to go for).
              I was asking more about "other" preparations. Never been
              have "special access".
              laid off. Anything I need to do, at work? Actually, I do
              have "special access" but I'm trying to resist. 25 in group.
              \_ make sure you can collect unemployment.
              \_ At times like these you have to protect yourself.  Knowledge
                 is power and all that.  Under normal circumstances I would
                 say don't do it but you need to know.  Go read their mail.
                 Don't get caught.  And whatever you do, don't *ever* tell
                 *anyone* you did it.  As far as "other" things you can do,
                 there's not much non-job-search related things to do.  You
                 might want to look into opening a roll over account for your
                 401k if you have one and do the 30 seconds of research looking
                 into health care costs if they don't extend your health to
                 more than the end of the month.  Basically, just get your act
                 together financially.  Don't make any big purchases.  Even
                 if you don't get cut this round, you might get cut 3 months
                 from now if you're in a public company (the next financial
                 quarter).  And whatever happens, DON'T TRUST THE BASTARDS!
                 Everything you're getting told may or may not be true and
                 you'll only be told things that benefit the company if you
                 believe them.  Figure out the real deal on your own.  And
                 seriously, best of luck, the job market is really tough right
                 now.
        \_ usual common sense stuff.  archive your files.  clean up your
           mail spool.  sanitize your files.  remove your personal objects
           from the office.  basically make sure there's nothing left that
           might embarass or incriminate you later.
           \_ Careful cleaning out your physical space.  You don't want them
              thinking you're all set to get axed and do you instead of
              someone else.  Bring home anything expensive or of personal
              value but leave up all the calendars, posters, doodads and
              other crap you won't miss.  Don't make it look like you already
              got chopped.  Perception is reality and all that.
2001/10/2 [Industry/Jobs] UID:22621 Activity:nil
10/2    Would you participate in a programming contest if you are good,
        but you know there are lots more who are better programmers than
        you?  If so, why?
        \_ to see where you rank?
        \_ to have fun?  to improve your skills?  to see how well you do?
           to find out where your skills need improvement?  Why would any
           one else's skill levels affect your decision to participate?
2001/9/15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36301 Activity:nil
9/14    Friday Night at 7:00 p.m (US edt). step out your door, stop your car,
        or step out of your establishment and light a candle. We will show the
        world that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism.
        Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach
        everyone across the United States quickly. The message:
        WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM!
        CHECK OUT OUR WEB SITE AT  http://www.ynpn.org http://www.ynpn.org
2001/9/7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:22348 Activity:nil
9/7     http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html#tth_sEc6.2.7
        Doug Pecchenino of Xilinx told me (August 26, 1998) that his firm
        is only interested in graduates with grade-point averages (GPAs)
        of above 3.8 on a 4.0 scale. Valaiya Smith, a new graduate
        writing in Computerworld (August 3, 1998), complained that
        employers' restriction to those having GPAs higher than 3.5 is
        unfair to people like Smith who are married with families and
        working full-time while going to school.
        \_ They'll get what they deserve if that's their policy. --dim
2001/8/26-27 [Industry/Jobs, Politics, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:22266 Activity:high
8/26    brits out!
        \_ http://www.perkel.com/nerd/nlm.htm
           \_ These smarties should put their intellectual ability
              towards find some social skills.
              towards finding some social skills.
              \_ Or at least some basic grammar lessons.
              \_ But someone set up them the bomb because they have so much
                 accurate
2001/8/7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:22024 Activity:very high
8/6     Don't hire a Cantonese because
        1) he/she will hire more Cantonese
        2) they will not care about the quality of their work. They are
           literally obsessed with money-- it's ingrained in their culture.
        3) they jabber in nasal, irritating voices
        \_ inflammatory troll or bitterness?
           \_ think achoi
                \_ I suspect someone got jilted by a cantonese girl
        \_ i totally agree. cantonese are more likely to display signs
           of chinesery than any other group. and chinesery is disgusting.
2001/8/6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:22017 Activity:high 61%like:22018
8/6     "Defense contractor General Dynamics said on Monday it plans to
        buy communications giant Motorola Inc.'s Integrated Information
        Systems Group for $825 million to strengthen its position in
        communications and information technology."
          Goes back to my statements about Dyncorp, EDS, IBM.... Dyncorp
        scored big when they bought GTE's IT group for a billion. However
        that tranaction seemed to get no press at all. Its like people
        just don't talk about this sector, but from everything I see,
        these are the companies which are going to be able to correctly
        be the "outsource" IT suppliers. However the mindset needs to
        change and all the damn consultants need to change there pitch
        from dot com/ msft/ erp bandwagon and jump onto network
        outsourcing bandwagon
          BTW notice keyword "communications"  this should read "network"
        however seems like "network" is now a bad word
        \_ Is this Kinney?
2001/8/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan, Industry/Jobs] UID:22001 Activity:insanely high
8/4     In general, do people find a difference working for
        managers with different racial background?  Does the
        cultural/racial background of your supervisor affect
        how the team is run?
        \_ yes.  When i'm managed by a team of monkeys, they seem to just
           confuse techonolical facts by screaming loudly at meetings and
           throwing around feces.  Oh wait.. I guess there's not much diff.
        \_ fuck you, dude. you need to get a clue.
           \_ Relax the head.  It is a legitimate question, even if it's
              gotten your PC engine revving.  Different ethnicities often
           as fast as the blacks, are generally very quite, polite and
              translate into different cultural backgrounds, and thus, varying
              ways of dealing with other people, or with work, with hierarchy,
              etc.  -John
        \_ yes, I find that generally my black managers are very loud
           and crass... and my asian managers, though not able to run
           as fast as the blacks, are generally very quiet, polite and
           intelligent.
           \_ how true it is.
           \_ They're also astonishingly good at math.
           \_ They also frown upon people who arrive after 8 AM and
              leave before 8 PM and take an hour for lunch.
        \_ I find differences in all managers, regardless of race. I've
           had six managers, all caucasian, and they ranged from senile
           to intelligent, from hands-on to "I dunno what a function is",
           from socialable to introverted.
        \_ I think culture plays such a big role here. I've had Caucasian
           mgrs who are just absolutely great; maybe because they have such
           a cheerful personality that you can get along with them like
           buddies and they understand young people. Then I've also had a
           Taiwanese manager who's old-school who grunt when you leave work
           before 7 PM, who keep on raising the bar on you and so demanding
           that they really don't give a shit about your life outside work.
           No stereotype here, but old school hard working managers often
           expect their subordinates to do the same, regardless of race -jthoms
              \_ I've worked for asian, indian and caucasian managers and
                 I have to say that the caucasian managers were the best
                 of the bunch. They knew where their technical limits were
                 and they knew how to deal with personality problems and
                 how to defend thier team in meetings with higher ups.
                 I recieved larger option grants, bigger bonuses and better
                 equipment as rewards for a job well done under caucasian
                 managers than under the others. Asian and Indian managers
                 never wanted to reward or promote anyone, they were just
                 interested in covering thier own ass and getting as much
                 out of you for as little pay as possible.
                 The asian and indian managers never realized that if
                 you like the company and the work you don't have to be
                 forced to show up and work.
           \_ it's the horrid "Thou shalt suffer as I have suffered."
              philosophy. Very stupid. Very "lets reinvent the wheel".
           \_ They may influence how the team itself is built.
              I watch a manager in a "neighbouring" department hire
              programmers.... and strangely enough, 3 out of the 4 new
              hires all spoke cantonese. Pure coincidence that she was
              a cantonese-speaking chinese woman, eh?
                \_ not to stereotype or anything, but I hate Cantonese
                   workers. They have a high tendency to talk loudly and have
                   a high tendency to talk about stock market, BMW, dim-sum,
        \_ Best manager I ever had was a tall slender blonde woman --asian guy
                   so on and so forth. And they rarely mix well (read-- no
                   assimilation) with other Asian race. Say no to Cantonese,
           Once had a Taiwanese manager and he was cool, confident and
           good jokes, never grunted, probably atypical.  --asian guy
                   the bane and the embarrasement of the Chinese race.
                   \_ Where is cantonese spoken? Mainland? Taiwan? HK?
                      \_ guang dong provence, which is where guang zhou is.
                                guang zhou == canton
                        \_ the ones you see here are usually from Hong Kong.
                   \_ wtf are you talking about?  embarrassment of the Chinese
                      race?  I find southerners (cantonese) to be more friendly
                      and easy-going than stuck-up northerners.  northern food
                      sucks too. (and before you accuse me of being biased, one
                      of my parents is from the the north, and the other is
                      from the south.)
                   \_ I don't know what you mean about rarely mixing well.
                      Since most Cantonese had British education, their
                      English is usually pretty damn good.  I don't know what
                      the hell you mean about not mixxing well with other Asian
                      races.  Who DOES mix well, in Asia?
                      Yes, they tend to be on the materialistic side, but
                      seriously, how many in the bay area are not?  I can not
                      see how they would be any worse than say the Taiwanese.
                \_ This is common among all races.  Indians hire indians,
                   Vietnamese hire vietnamese.  This behavior is especially
                   promoted by referal bonuses.  If anything, my impression
                   was that the Cantonese seem the most equal opportunity
                   among the Asians.
                   \_ There are two type of indians, one who will hire only
                      other indians and the other who will hire anyone other
                      that indian. I have not found this phenomenon in other
                      cultures (except perhaps caucasian).
                      Anyway, as an Indian I tend to be reluctant to hire
                      other indians because I don't trust them to do a good
                      job.
        \_ Best manager I ever had was a tall slender blonde woman -- best
           support, best pay and bonuses and review and had sense of humor.
           Once had a Taiwanese manager and he was cool, confident, told
           good jokes, never grunted, probably atypical.  Had 3 male
           white bosses, all fine. Differences may be due to culture
           or background or the fact that white folks are used to being
           the rulers in command of their subordinates in American society
           whereas others are just struggling with no role models.
           Certainly, being a manager involves people-skills and being with
           people of like mind and background helps smooth things, but that
           does not mean it's anything more than a minor issues. You may even
           differences will help the project. And to be a good, valuable worker
           or manager nowadays, esp. with global corporations and customers,
           you need to learn to work w/ others. --asian guy
                \_ I'd love a tall, slender blonde woman too, but for
                   reasons other than you said...
                \_ is that you, my little lollipop.
2001/7/24-25 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21934 Activity:nil
7/24    To the person who claims is hiring for the "right" skill, my
        login is tyf.
        \_ Are things really so bad at cisco that you want to leave?
2001/7/23 [Computer/Rants, Industry/Jobs] UID:21916 Activity:moderate
7/23    Anyone recently changed jobs could comment on the current
        climate for employment?
        \_ i'm hiring, if you've got the right skills.  right skills being
           high-speed logic design, cot backend, sonet, error correction
           if you have a phd in the right things.  i'll sign my motd if
           you'll sign yours.
2001/7/17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21818 Activity:high
7/16    So how many luzers are still working at dot-com/start-ups that
        has yet gone IPO?
        \_ And they are losers when compared to people who worked at
           start-ups and then have been laid off how?
           \_ They are because obviously the poster is bitter about being
              one of those laid off
        \_ i am because some loser VCs are still throwing big money at us
        \_ did you mean to say "have yet to go IPO"?
2001/7/12-13 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Jobs] UID:21775 Activity:moderate
7/12    So, i'm trying to get laid off from my progamming job, because
        I've decided to leave (and I already have my next job lined up) but
        I want to partake of my company's generous severance package. The
        company is going through lay-offs right now so it's not unlikely
        that this would actually happen, but how do I go about getting
        laid off but not fired?
        \_ You're trying to get laid... from your programming job.
        \_ It's probably a little late to lower your job performance,
           but a sudden defeatist "we're all going to get fired anyway"
           can go a long way.
        \_ a friend of mine who went through the same thing volunteered
           to be laid off so that his boss wudnt hafta pick someone else
           tho he was real tight w/ his boss so it worked out fine.. -shac
           \_ Yup, this is the way to go.  Assuming you are in good standing,
           tell them you would like to be laid off as well.  It could work.
        \_ You should quit.  Go ahead and figure out a way to ask to be
           laid off though -- although a nutty manager might fire you.
2001/6/11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21478 Activity:high
6/11    Anybody transitioned from being in high-tech to another career?  I'm
        beginning to get sick of this rat race.  I used to thinking that
        becoming a manager and climbing the ladder will make things better,
        but it hasn't.  I'm thinking of starting a small business like owning
        a restaurant or running a franchise like Mail Boxes Etc.  -sick of tech
        \_ i am thinking of going back to chemE stuff but since I learned a lot
           of cs I can incorporate that into what I want to do.
           Mostly use cs as a tool for helping in research
        \_ have you thought about switching to another career but still in
           high tech? like tech-grunt -> marketing/sales/product mgment
           that way would be less of a hurt to the wallet and keep some of the
           value of your experience. or become an FAE or consultant. or not.
           \_ Something like a sales engineer?
              \_ whatever appeals to you. also, maybe a teacher. one of my
                 H.S. teachers was an engineer who got sick of engineering.
                 i dunno, just thinking of things where your knowledge could
                 still be used, but if it's "time for something completely
                 different" only you can figure it out.
        \_ My real estate agent was a hardware engr before he decided to switch
           career several years ago.  He said he made a lot more $ as an agent.
           But of course for someone switcheing to real estate now it'd be a
           little late.
        \_ I met this engineer in Taiwan.  He already made enough money, so
           he quit his job and started driving taxis cuz he likes talking to
           people.
2001/6/10-11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21471 Activity:high
6/9     It kinda scares me that my CEO is making major purchasing
        decisions based on my "research" on the subject.  I don't like
        the idea that a company's life can weigh on the decisions of a
        person like myself with little to no experience on the subject
        except that I can read and write Japanese to a degree.  No, it
        isn't bad ass!
        Overall things are easy.  I enjoy going to work actually because
        the guys are cool and I learn quite a bit.  we have three very
        senior level people so I get good input from them.  I tend to
        trust their judgment more than my own just on the basis of
        experience.  My only complaint is that we've done little to move
        forward since I've come aboard so I'm not comfortable with out
        situation. Should I look elsewhere?
        \_ An idiot like you who confuses "way" and "weigh" should be
           grateful to be employed. --dim
           \_ he spelled "judgment" right, which is impressive
        \_ An idiot like you who confuses 'our' with 'out' should be glad
           to be employed.
           \_ shut the fuck up dim
        \_ No.  An idiot who can barely write coherent English is lucky
           to be employed at all.
        \_ As long as your higher-ups are aware of the negative aspects
           of your research, the responsibility is solely on them if
           if it fails.   And have a little self esteem.
        \_ It's not whether you can make the best possible decision.
           It's whether you can make a better decision than the idiot
           who would be doing so if you don't.
2001/6/1-3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21401 Activity:kinda low
5/31    My bi-annual bonus/raise is coming up. What should I expect given
        the crappy market it is now?
        \_ 10% of your salary, no less. Seriously? uh... doesn't this
           completely depend on your contract/performance?
        \_ Depends on your company's financial situation.  My company
           postponed the raise to November.  Everyone in my company
           seemed satisfied since no salary reduction or layoff was
           issued.
        \_ Ask for more than you think you can get. It won't hurt. I used
           to feel uncomfortable doing that, but more often than not the
           answer is "Yes" or "Yes, but...". When they start saying "No"
           is when you should ease off. --dim
           \_ This is true in most cases.
2001/5/29-30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21383 Activity:low
5/30    If you're still looking for a summer internship, try
        http://www.ttb.siemens.com  They are across the street from Au Coquolet and
        hire Cal EECS/CS students for the summer.
        \_ I interviewed there, but they weren't hiring.  Maybe it was
           just me, but I thought they weren't hiring anyone.
           \_ Maybe they didn't like you.
           \_ I don't like you either.
2001/5/17 [Computer/SW/Database, Industry/Jobs] UID:21298 Activity:nil
5/16    How much should an Oracle DBA with 3 years experience be paid in
        the Bay Area?  I have a friend that's thinking about relocating
        to the Bay Area.  Some real figures would be nice.
        \_ http://salary.com
           \_ Tried that, it wasn't specific enough.
        \_ $75k
           \_ Really?  Post a URL to their resume.  My company will hire them
              *immediately* at that rate.  Of course that's just a totally
              made up figure.  In the real world, it's much higher.
                \_ There's should be plenty right now in the market willing
                   work for that figure.
                   \_ No one worth hiring.  That's a junior level salary.
                        \_ Isn't 3 year experience still considered junior
                           level?
                        \_ I wouldn't expect Oracle DBA salary to be high
                           considering there many Oracle DBA out there.
                           The training to be a Oracle DBA is highly
                           available.  Heck, we just trained our sys admin
                           to be Oracle DBA.  He is doing just fine.
2001/5/14-16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21269 Activity:insanely high
5/14    L&S graduation schedule:
        Prof. Patterson is scheduled to speak.
        Kevin Fong is the Key Note Speaker
        These are the student speakers:
        1. Minh T. Nguyen
        2. Ha Nguyen
        3. Tal Garfinkel
        4. benson limketkai
           \_ has anyone TA-d the 61 series more times than benson?
              \_ yes. dan garcia. but benson is still a Really Cool Guy (tm).
                 \_ who is now teaching 61a....
        \_ Where?
           \_ Zellerbach.
        \_ When?
        \_ What happens at L&S graduation? Do they show you how to
           cut your L&S diploma into long strips so that you can use
           as toliet paper for a week? Or do they show you the tricks
           to make it as a pan handler? - Engineering Alum
        \_ Where, what, who, when?
           \_ http://ugrad.csua.berkeley.edu/commenceProg01.doc for full
           programme.
        \_ What happens L&S graduation? Do show they you to how
           cut L&S diploma become long strips so you use as toliet
           paper for week? Or they do show you tricks to make be a
           pan handler? - Engineering Alum
                \_ it teaches you how to interview engineering alums and
                   give them the least compensations.
                   \_  I guess L&S barely teaches literacy.
                   \_ Non-engineers never do interviews of engineering
                      prospects that anyone else cares about.  Yes, as a tech
                      you sometimes have to talk to some moron in HR but just
                      smile and pretend to be interested in what they're
                      saying and HR-Bot is satisfied.  Even if they're not,
                      the hiring manager is an engineer and has the final say
                      so anyway.  Take your history diploma to the
                      unemployment line.  Compensation itself is competitive
                      or the candidate walks and your company is left with an
                      empty chair or a lesser employee.  Good thing you saved
                      $5/month on staffing on the way to headlines over at
                      http://fuckedcompany.com
                   \_ Non-engineers do never interviews with engineeringers
                      of which anyone else cares nothing about.  Yes, as tech
                      you sometimes have talk to moron in HR (very wacky) smile
                      like good sarariman and pretend be interested what they
                      saying and HR-Bot is satisfied.  Even they not,
                      the hiring manager is engineer-bro too and has final say
                      so anyway (very wacky).  Take history diploma to
                      unemployment line.  Compensation itself competitive
                      or the candidate is going and happy kiretsu is lef wit
                      empty chair or lesser sarariman.  Good thing you saved
                      $5/month staffing way to headlines over http://fuckedcompany.com
                      Then you go fight the bear!  Make sure your children be
                      a doctor and play violin or piano!
                      \_ Whoa. Is someone playing around with Philip's RantBot
                         (tm) technology again?
                         \_ Truth hurts, eh?
           \_ a degree in Lit paved the way for me to live abroad for six years,
              surfing mornings, working afternoons, and partying nights.  how's
              that Engineering degree treating you?
              \_ you could have dropped out of high school and done that. or,
                 you could live in santa cruz and do that, i knew a couple
                 engineers who did. and "made bank".
              \_ Its treating me just fine. I'm a millionare.
              \- er what "advantage" did a lit degree (over and eng) give you
              to obtain this lifestyle? inquiring psb wants to know --psb
                 \_ if you have to ask, you don't know. - !psb
                    \_ No Such Association
                        \_ Duh.  Is this what a lit degree got you?  Any idiot
                           can get stoned and hang out in Europe.  It doesn't
                 \_ I a millionare sarariman. hahaha my stock is like penis!
                           take a degree in anything.  You still stoned?
                           \_ heh, any idiot but you, apparently
                                \_ Yeah I lack the special skills required
                                   that only lit majors get in college. I
                                   don't have the special training required to
                                   get stoned and sit in a park all night
                                   shrooming myself into another galaxy.
                                   \_ you make this sound like a bad thing
2001/5/10-12 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:21236 Activity:high
5/10    I've been having a hell of a time finding any summer jobs.
        Is anyone here hiring programmers for the summer?
        \_ Unfortunately not. I've been trying to push our company
           to hire a few interns this summer and its almost impossible.
           No one wants to spend money on *anything* including interns.
        \_ No.
        \_ shit is tough right now, I've been looking as well...
        \_ Think, "dotcoms bomb, programmers everywhere".  Kid there are so
           many unemployed and underemployed coders out there with years more
           real world experience than you that you should forget about any
           sort of technical job this summer and just find a nice beach.  In
           fact there are plenty of very talented and highly skilled people
           out of work right now willing to take almost anything.
              You just can't admit to yourselves that you are not that bright.
           \_ Stupid dotcom programmers everywhere.  I don't know a single
              intelligent programmer who is having a hard time finding work.
              The last time smart people had problems with work was 1930s.
              \_ I think it has less to do with how smart the person is and
                 more to do with how "on the money" the company itself is.
                 if the company is a loser, it doesn't matter how "useful"
                 you could be because you're expending your smarts on stuff
                 that really doesn't matter to the people paying the bills,
                 which is ultimately the customers. Of course, it's harder
                 to get a job at a good company because you're competing
                 against the other smart people. And obviously, this is
                 because smart people look at the business plan and don't
                 go work for a loser. Ergo, dotcommers are NOT smart. QED.
                 I guess I just contradicted myself. Whatever.
                  \_ Yes, it's easy to use 20/20 to say what was good and what
                     was bad.  If I was employee #1 at Netscape or Yahoo or
                     others I'd be a genius, right?  No.  There's a lot of
                     luck involved.  Research and business plan examining only
                     goes so far.  If it was that easy, then every business
                     plan would be a success as no one would ever have a bad
                     plan.  You're not making sense.
                     \_ Well, Netscape had a crappy business plan; they were
                        a stock only company. I for one never saw anything
                        to it, it was clear early on that the value of the
                        browser was only strategic; since Netscape didn't
                        have anything to leverage the browser with it was
                        pointless. Yahoo is a decent company because they
                        actually have a business model and are useful.
                        But it's a web site; they don't need armies of
                        developers. Most of the failed dotcoms were hyped
                        bullshit and many people said as much at the time.
                        \_ Netscape was selling the server, not the browser.
                           You *could* buy the browser but that wasn't their
                           point.  Yahoo is just a web site?  You've never
                           actually looked at all the different shit Yahoo
                           offers, then.  Go look around their site at all
                           the services (whether you find them personally
                           useful or not) and tell me that doesn't take a
                           lot of coders to write and maintain?
                           \_ it was the browser that had the value. since
                              they didn't take advantage of it when they had
                              the chance, i attribute it to poor management.
                              those "servers" obviously weren't demanded by
                              the market. the browser was; but it doesn't
                              make money on its own. i guess it's true that
                              microsoft killed them, but then who didn't see
                              that coming once IE 1.0 came out. as for yahoo,
                              it's a portal, they are a good one with a large
                              customer base, but that business model just
                              doesn't support a big overhead. how many is
                              "a lot" of coders to you? most of it looks like
                              monkey work.
                              \_ How many is "an army of developers" to you?
                                 This is all beside the point. The front office
                                 girl at NS retired a multi millionaire.  Was
                                 she a genius or she just get lucky?  The point
                                 being that you can't *know* for certain if a
                                 small company will make it until it's all
                                 hindsight and the post-analysis geniuses crawl
                                 out from under their rocks and claim they knew
                                 it all along.
              \_ Yes, you rule the universe.
                   \_ No, but we are smarter than you.
                        \_ No, I'm certain you rule the universe.  Afterall,
                           it's a fact that anyone who ever worked for a
                           company that did layoffs or went out of business is
                           a no-talent moron, right?
                           \_ You are making a clumsy strawman, no wonder you
                              can't find work.  No, smart people get laid off
                              too, but unlike mediocrities like you, they can
                              easily find another job.
                                \_ I didn't make the strawman.  Just rewording
                                   the one that was already there.  And because
                                   I know you're concerned, I'm gainfully
                                   employed.  Thanks for showing concern.  Are
                                   you one of the academic employees here who
                                   mistakenly believes that skilled people
                                   always easily get a new job and lesser
                                   talents don't?  The world isn't like that.
                                   \_ No I am not, I am merely a programmer
                                      who was not laid off (because I was
                                      actually useful to my company).
                                      \_ Silly boy.  A lot of programmers who
                                         are useful to their companies got the
                                         axe.  No one is immune.  You honestly
                                                         \_ I am immune.
                                                            \_ Only if you
                                                               work for a
                                                               company of
                                                               one and maybe
                                                               not even then.
                                                --------------/
                                                My company is an obvious
                                                counterexample (60).  The basic
                                                point you seem unable to
                                                comprehend is, despite what
                                                managers tell you, in times of
                                                belt tightening the fat, not
                                                the muscle, gets eliminated.
                                                If you were eliminated you
                                                were not useful.  If you are
                                                still working, you are useful.
                                                End of story.  Stop
                                                hypothesising (incorrectly)
                                                about the possible state of
                                                my company, or else continue
                                                sounding the fool.
                                                \_ 60 people?  You work for a
                                                   tiny blip of a company and
                                                   think your company is immune
                                                   to the economy and the
                                                   marketplace?  I've seen
                                                   perfectly good people get
                                                   axed at several companies.
                                                   You're fooling yourself if
                                                   you think your tiny little
                                                   speck of a company is some
                                                   magical wonderland immune
                                                   to a bad economy, management
                                                   mistakes, overhiring,
                                                   changes in the market which
                                                   make your product/service
                                                   obsolete or unnecessary or
                                                   any of a million other
                                                   causes of company downturn
                                                   and layoffs.  Is this your
                                                   first job?  You sound a lot
                                                   like my friends who thought
                                                   their first job was magic,
                                                   too.
                                                   \_ My first job sucked.
                                                \_ If times get too tight
                                                   even you will go.
                                                   \_ Sure, along with the
                                                      whole company.  This
                                                      will happen if we have
                                                      another 1930s style
                                                      recession, then it will
                                                      suck for everyone, even
                                                      smart people.  Right now,
                                                      however, only idiots are
                                                      let go.
                                                      \_ That's all I ment
                                                         by the statement
                                                         that no one is
                                                         immune.
                                                      \_ 1930s was a depression.
                                                      \_ What's the name of
                                                         this special place you
                                                         work for (currently)?
                                                         I'd like to judge for
                                                         myself how long you'll
                                                         have a job.
                                                         \_ I ll know in a year
                                                            if the company
                                                            succeeds.
                                                            \_ *laugh*  Not if
                                                               you get laid off
                                                               first!
                                                               \_ No way!
                                         think the people doing the cutting
                                         even know who the hell you are or that
                                         you exist as anything more than an
                                         employee number, a title, and a number
                                         on their salary spreadsheet?  You'll
                                         figure it out one day.  No one
                                         important at your company knows who
                                         the hell you are or gives a damn.
                                         \_ Everyone important knows who I am.
                                            It's not a large company, of
                                            course.  Stop hypothesising
                                            (incorrectly) about the possible
                                            state of my company, or else
                                            continue sounding the fool.
                                            \_ URL, please?
              \_ Not quite.  The large number of idiots currently in the job
                 market make it harder for employers to spot the worthwhile
                 job applicants.  Also, many companies are currently under
                 hiring freezes, which make it more difficult for them to
                 hire worthwhile people when they *do* identify them.
        \_ Kid, I hear the mall is hiring.  Try Mrs. Field, they're always
           hiring.
                \_ And think of all the free cookies you and your friends can
                   get.  Since your friends won't have jobs either, they'll
                   really appreciate the free cookies.
                \_ In Portland all my friends had retail food jobs.  Rent was
                   very low (less than $300) and we never had to buy food
                   due to our network.  Our rent may not be low here, but
                   remember it pays to make lots of friends and always give
                   out free things if you can afford it.  It will help you
                   through tougher times.      -brain
        \_ It's a good summer to do research and take summer school...
        \_ I'm hungry. Go make me some fries.
           \_ I'm not just making a burger. I'm making your burger.
        \_ go work in las vegas.
        \_ Those fishing boats up in AK might hire.
                \_ Slave labor is always available in good times and bad, yes.
2001/4/27-28 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21120 Activity:high
4/27    Dot com failure means:
        more Asians in CS:
        less Asians in CS:      ...
        more Asians in EE:      .
        less Whites day trading: .
        \_ Number-wise or percentage-wise?
        \_ Nothing.  Dotcoms have been failing at the same rate since the
           beginning.  The only difference is that now there's no more easy
           money to start a new one.  Don't buy the hype.  Even in the dotcom
           hey day, 9 in 10 never even got close to going public.  I hope it
           really means the press will go away and let small companies do their
           thing without the insane pressure to grow big and public in 6 months
           or less so maybe some quality people working on quality ideas can
           actually make quality products people with money will want to buy,
           while all the content production SF freaks and losers who should've
           gone into insurance company middle management will just die and stop
           pretending to be VP of <Insert_Fuzzy_Thing_Here>.
                            \_ Our company had a VP of Customer Satisfaction.
                               Guess who got downsized first?
                               \_ the customers?
        \_ fewer, you idiot.
        \_ fewer, not less you idiot.
2001/4/25 [Industry/Jobs] UID:21099 Activity:high
4/24    nweaver, you're an FPGA chip kinda guy. What's yer take on PIC
        Basic for prototype development vs. Xilinx/Altera solution, in
        terms of cost, ease of development, time to demo, debugging
        facility, etc?
        \_ Don't ask in the motd, send email.
        \_ dude, coding a PIC takes infinitely less time than coding
           an FPGA. you code your PIC in C or in basic. you get up to 20
           IO pins depending on what pick you use. coding an FPGA requires
           IO pins depending on what PIC you use. coding an FPGA requires
           C. if pin count and speed are not an assue  and price is, then
           most definitely go for the PIC. -ali
           you to write your shit in an HDL which is way lower level than
           C. if pin count and speed are not an issue and and development
           time price are, then most definitely go for the PIC. -ali
2001/4/16 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:21001 Activity:nil
4/16    Games dot com is a luz3r company. Those who joined and stayed till
        now, are the stupidest of all.                  <DEAD>-fuckedcompany.com<DEAD>
        \_ That's pretty danged stupid! -redneck
2001/3/20-21 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/Networking, Industry/Jobs] UID:20861 Activity:low
3/20    Of all the dot coms and mega corporations, which one do you want
        the most with a massive layoff?
        M$:     ..
        Oracle: ...
        Intel:  .
        Cisco:  ..
                \_ time to claim our scarce land and congested highways!!!
                \_ Time to get rid of the worthless newbie Gam3rz and bs
                   java programmers and 3rd line managers and directors with
                   one direct report (personal admin).
                   In the good old days, we build the best routers and
                   switches in the market with the fastest interfaces and
                   the most protocol support. Every engineer could rebuild
                   a basic router from parts and configure at least one ip
                   routing protocol in IOS and simple VLANs in CatOS.
                   Now we have a bunch of idiots who can't tell the difference
                   between L2 and L3 and don't know the difference between
                   IOS and WinNT. They need to go, NOW! Forget the fact that
                   they should never have been hired in the first place.
                   The old cisco culture made us #1 and it is what will save
                   us.
                   - disgrunted Cisco oldtimer
2001/3/14-15 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:20786 Activity:high
3/14    Who knows anything about Aiken's new startup? Email me. thx. -sameer
        \_ Mail Aiken?
           \_ I'm looking for the inside story dumbass.
                \_ Duh.  And who better than Aiken to give it to you?
        \_ Some dumbass deleted my post. Are you asking about Digital
           Integrity or a different startup?
        \_ is this similar to MOSS?
           \_ If this is referring to Digital Integrity, then yes.
        \_ Widom is hot.
2001/3/5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20720 Activity:nil
3/5     Do you want to have fun, technical experience, and flexible hours?
        Residential Computing is hiring for the System Administrator position!!!
        Applications due March 14, 2001, 12 noon.
        For more info:  http://www.rescomp.berkeley.edu/hiring
        \_ how many options do I get?
2001/2/25-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20683 Activity:high 85%like:20681
2/24    ok, so I'm thiknig of buying a new penis, since apparently
        honda decided that civic hatchbacks are not hip and sexy and
        discotinued them in '97.  anyone got any bad/good experience?
hamster      \_ You are buying a car?!? Oh the horror! Oh the humanity!
              Don't you care about our precious pale blue dot and its
              environment? If you buy a car, it will need gas. This is
              just the excuse that Dumbya Bush needs to install Oil Wells
              in Alaska and off the coast of California.
              Just because I lost is no reason to give up the fight!
              - Al Gore (Join Team Gore 2k4: The committee to retake
                         the White House by Any Means Necessary)
hamster    \_ Experience?  No.  But imagine what you'll look like when your
           little golf gets smacked by something 4 times bigger like a
           CSUAer on a bike with linux loaded laptop in hand....
           \_ OSuX! OSuX! 1T'5 A11 A80U+ OSuX D00D! K3WL AKWUA & 5H1T!
           \_ 5UV! 5UV! 1T'5 A11 A80U+ 5UV D00D! GA5 GU55L3R & 5H1T!
hamster   \_ R1D3 B1K3! RUN GN00/L1N5UX! D00D! - 3133T H@X0R
         \_ Experience?  No.  But imagine what you'll look like when your
           little golf gets smacked by something 4 times bigger like a
           CSUAer on a bike with linux loaded laptop in hand....
           \_ OSuX! OSuX! 1T'5 A11 A80U+ OSuX D00D! K3WL AKWUA & 5H1T!
           \_ 5UV! 5UV! 1T'5 A11 A80U+ 5UV D00D! GA5 GU55L3R & 5H1T!
        \_ R1D3 B1K3! RUN GN00/L1N5UX! D00D! - 3133T H@X0R
        \_ You probably be wanting one of these for your Golf:
           http://collegehumor.com/pictures/tailpipe.html
2001/2/6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20507 Activity:nil
2/5     So what are the latest numbers for UCB CS/EECS B.S. and M.S.
        starting salaries in Silicon Valley?  Is there a UCB site
        which says this?
        \_ http://salary.com
           \_ wether salary dot com is reight on software engineers, i don't
              know, but i do know its off bey tens of thousands of dollars
              on serveral things i am familiar with.  I think they just make
              up some of their numbers.
                \_ software engineer I, San Jose 50% median == $58k?
                   does this seem right?
                   \_ straight out of college, yah it does, esp if there's no
                      prior experience outside of coursework and you're not
                      graduating from a toptier engineering school. --chris
        \_ The career center has it.
                \_ where on http://career.berkeley.edu is it?
2001/2/1-2 [Computer/SW/Database, Industry/Jobs] UID:20486 Activity:low
1/31    What job search sites do people use and have found useful?
        Thanks.
        \_ I heard http://www.dice.com is pretty good for hi-tech jobs.
           \_ I put my resume on dice, and the only responses I got were from
              (annoying) recruiters.
              \_ http://hotjobs.com does not allow 3rd party agencies to have access
                 to their resume database and do not allow 3rd party
                 agency to post jobs.  therefore, I recommend posting there.
                 however, http://monster.com has the most amount of hits, and their
                 search engines (the ones that companies pay to search the
                 resume database with) are much better than hotjobs's.  also
                 good to check out are http://brassring.com, http://headhunter.net (despite
                 its name, it is actually one of the top 5 largest job
                 boards), and http://craigslist.org.  http://dice.com, which is trying to
                 diversify its resume database, is still mostly
                 contractor-heavy...and attracts a lot of 3rd party agency
                 recruiters.  --chris
        \_ I posted hotjobs and dice recently.  I got a *lot* of calls and
           emails, about 1/2 were recruiters.  Just don't call them back.
           They usually go away after being ignored the first time.  If they
           don't mention a specific job at a specific company, then they don't
           have a job for you.  Also, since recruiters are getting 20% to 30%
           of your start salary as their pay for emailing your resume in, you
           can get a better deal if you can get hired direct without going
           through an agency.  Companies *do* calculate the recruiter cost in
           when figuring out how much you cost.  Why carry a big fat monkey on
           your back when you can stride across the finish line in style on
           your own?
        \_ Found my current job (which I love) on http://monster.com.
2001/1/26-28 [Industry/Jobs, Health/Sleeping] UID:20444 Activity:high
1/26    What fantasy books are you guys reading these days? I've went thru
        Tolkein and Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series and looking for more.
        \_ Philip Pullman, CS Lewis if you don't mind xtian mythos.
           Brust, Dave Duncan, S. King's Gunslinger books, AS Byatt.
        \_ I liked the Dragonlance world, especially the books about Raistlin.
        \_ I got depressed and re-read all the Wizard Of Earthsea
           books, it cheered me up, they are pretty short and it
           would probably only take you a few days.
        \_ I read Playboy. Quite a fantasy away from my marriage that I
           can't get out of.
                \_ http://www.worldcon.org/hy.html
                \_ http://www.hitmen.org
        \_ Actually, David Edding's series is very good. Check it out.
           \_ It's good for exactly one read.  Do not under any circumstances
              reread this series, or you will lose your respect for Eddings
              (let alone because he keeps retelling the same story over and
              over again from a slightly different perspective... a sure sign
              of someone who's run out of ideas... like Orson Scott Card)
        \_ The Feynman Lectures on Physics. The author's narrative
           is captivating throughout the entire trilogy, AND IT ISN'T
           ALL MADE UP. When will you people grow up, D&D is for kids.
           \_ grumpy!
           \_ I shall lop off your tongue with my +5 Vorpal Sword!
           \_ Is it just me or do most people's FANTASY NOT INVOLVE
              Physics?  The guy asked for fantasy books and most of
              the people above gave relevant answer.  Yes fantasy books
              are a waste of time but THAT'S THE POINT.  Keep your
              pedagogue to yourself.  The rest of us know where to
              look when we feel like using our brains.
              \_ my main reason for reading fantasy and watching cartoons
                 is to stop the goddamn phsics /math dreams.  when
                 you wake up after 7 hours and all you can remember of
                 your sleep is hour after hour of equations and seeing
                 graphs of fundctions that you *almost* know how to integrate,
                 but can't wquite find an anyalytical expression because
                 you're fucking sleeping, it just doesn't feel like you really
                 dreamt.  i think feynman's books are overreated anyway.
                 robert asprin kicks ass.
                    -physics grad student
        \_ Fantasy shmantasy.  David Drake's Hammer's Slammers is what you
           need to brighten up your dull dreary day.  Several books worth of
           testosterone driven blood 'n' guts, boy!
        \_ Tolkien was great, but nothing beats wuxia novels, if you can
           read Chinese.  It was worse than opium.
           read Chinese.  It was more addictive than opium.
        \_ Hammer's Slammers.  David Drake.  No weird shit, just raw blood n
           guts.  Simple, straight forward, no science-as-magic ringworld crap.
           Try it, you'll like it.  Remove your fantasy straight jacket.  Be
           free!
2001/1/16-17 [Reference/BayArea, Industry/Jobs] UID:20334 Activity:very high
1/15    Anyone know who is hiring in SF ??
        \_ Castro Street Brothels.
        \_ Five Finger Discounts on Castro St.
        \_ http://www.epicentric.com (/csua/pub/jobs/Epicentric)
        \_ *EVERYONE* in SF is hiring.  Go do a jobs search, sheesh.
           http://dice.com, http://hotjobs.com, http://bajobs.com, http://monster.com, etc.  C'mon, put
           the tiniest effort into it.
           http://dice.com, http://hotjobs.com, http://bajobs.com, http://monster.com, http://fuckedcompany.com,
           etc.  C'mon, put the tiniest effort into it.
           \_ no, i'm a fucking lazy whore.  pimp for me.
              \_ If you're fucking, then obviously you're not a lazy whore.
        \_ McDonald's
           \_ McDonalds? Never heard of them.
              \_ What, you do not know the company that makes iMacs?
                 \_ ... and eMacs too.  -- yuen
                 \_ They also make airplanes.
2001/1/15-16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20316 Activity:low
1/14    I am looking for a part time programming job, preferably east bay.
        Thing is, almost all places want only full time.  Is anyone
        here working at a company that is hiring for part time?
        \_ part-times generally isn't a good investment for companies.
           you should look for contract work, or consider self-employment.
           Why do you want to work part time anyway?
           \_ I want to work part time so I can accomodate going to
              school.  Contract work would be just as good.  I used to
              find contract work on ucb.cs.jobs, but haven't seen any
              lately.  I have looked on some of the job/career sites
              too, like guru.  Ideas for other places to look?
        \_ Most high-tech companies only offer part-time jobs of the sort
           you want to interns or existing employees who want to switch from
           full to half time.
        \_ If you're really good at something in particular, than a company
           is more willing to hire you part time for a well-defined
           task.
2001/1/10-11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20288 Activity:high
1/9     I've been out of school working as a programmer for 3.5 years. I
        now have an opportunity to go from being a regular programmer to a
        technical lead and eventually a manager. I know a few people who have
        done this and regretted their choice, and my instincts tell me to
        avoid it even though I think I'd be good at it, since it would
        involve longer hours and more responsibilites and I'm pretty happy
        just coding. But there is the temptation of "getting promoted" and
        making more dough. Any advice? Also, how much more money can I
        expect to make as a manager?
        \_ "technical lead" good. "manager" bad.
           If you're at a company where the only way you can get a
           raise is to become a "manager", time to change companies.
                \_ no, I'm getting pretty good raises just being a coder,
                   I'm just wondering if being a lead/manager will bump
                   my salary up significantly faster, and if I'd get
                   more bonuses and options.
                   \_ I got a 20% raise and 25% more options when I
                      became Lead Sysadmin. YMMV.
                      \_ the original poster has a real job. you don't.
           But DO bring up this issue to them first. In rare occasions,
           companies can be convinced to see the light.
           \_ Depends. You will hardly ever see those $300K+ salaries
              without going into management at some point if that's
              important to you. --dim
                \_ if there's one thing I wish there were more in this
                   consulting and systems integration world that I am
                   currently involved in, it'd be managers who have technical
                   (coding) backgrounds. You would not believe how many
                   friggin' managers out there who love to pull things out
                   of their asses without actually understanding the real
                   problem. Your choice to become a "technical lead" is
                   to be commended, presuming you've done a lot of coding,
                   have good technical knowledge and are a people person;
                   granted you won't be doing a lot of coding in this new
                   position, but chances are you will be involved in helping
                   the junior guys (i.e. the programmers who work for you)
                   with concepts, designs, sometimes even debugging etc. In
                   another word, you will be shifting more of the grunt work
                   to someone else so you can concentrate on managing the
                   tasks you're overseeing. Those who regretted it are usually
                   folks who got stuck being a lead of something (a component,
                   a project, etc.) that they don't like, things that are not
                   relevant to their field of expertise; which often involves
                   going to numerous meetings, face time with (idiot) managers
                   and other things that they're totally overqualified for.
                   These ppl will most likely miss being a regular Joe Program-
                   mer. Salary-wise? You'll probably get a bit more than
                   the top programmer in your company because, presumably,
                   you're a step above your top programmer (and he/she works
                   for you). Is it worth it? You'll be the judge.
                   - someone who's been there done that.
                   \_ There is also the problem of managers who DO know stuff
                      and micromanage the minor things.

        \_ If you're making good money as a coder, you should not think about
           the money involved with management. As a tech lead or manager,
           you'll be expected to put in extra hours, attend stupid, ineffectual
           meetings, deal with office politics on a grander scale, determine
           budgets, keep your group fat and happy, hire and fire folks, support
           the pathetic, guide the senseless, and fight losing battles. The
           perks are there. You can climb the corporate ladder and get nice
           bennies from vendors, customers, and the company. The question is
           do you really want to work that hard? How much more important is
           your career than your non-job life?  That will tell you how far
           you can climb.
           \_ You may find the daily grind of coding for "some other idiot"
              gets you down after a few years and decide you can do better.
              Thus if you'd like to be that "other idiot" giving orders
              instead of taking them, then go for it.  If you're a happy
              hacker you may not like being manager.  Really depends on where
              you are in life.  If more than just the money is interesting to
              you, then give it a try.  You might be sorry a year from now
              that you're still hacking when you could've been managing and
              missed the opportunity.
        \_ As manager, prepare for more bullshit and meetings and people-
           skills, and constant crap pushed down from above, and crap coming
           up from below, with you in the middle & paperwork up the butt.
           At least until you get higher up the ladder, if ever.
2000/12/27-28 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20183 Activity:very high
12/27   "Sometimes part of the problem is that a lot of the traditional
        straight-out-of-school IT people you see are young and aggressive,
        but they aren't seasoned. They aren't really mature."
                - Tom Ferrara, link:CareerEngine.com
        \_ what the hell does that mean?  seasoned?  like a ham?
           and where do you go to "school for IT"?  DeVry?  go away.
        \_ http://www.cnn.com/2000/CAREER/trends/12/26/itking
        \_ has more to do with grads not having job skills (notably any
           sense of professionalism).  IT is worst case because they quickly
           are in position of power, unlike plain office job.
        \_ has more to do with grads not having job skills (notably any
           sense of professionalism).  IT is worst case because they quickly
           are in position of power, unlike plain office job.
           \- i wonder to what extent some "mature" people in the "old days"
           were just afraid to be the nail that stuck up for fear of losing
           their jobs/bad reviews ... when they had a wife and kids to support.
           while a lot more poeple today are in the "what are you going to do,
           fore me?" position. --psb
           \_ how astute.  Here's an extension of the comments made:
              "Sometimes part of the problem is that a lot of the
              traditional straight-out-of-school IT people you see are young
              and aggressive, but they aren't seasoned. They aren't really
              mature. So they're the ones you risk losing a lot more than a
              40-year-old."
              \- well i think the comments are one sided ... fine they arent
              seasoned and mature ... but if that is all they were, then you
              could risk losing them. the phenomena above occurs when you have
              to pick between the annoying dweeb who works from home and week-
              ends and read linux journal in his spare time vs. the guy who
              goes along to get along but is out of the office at 5pm and
              doesnt look back, often has to leave to pick up his kids, takes
              long vacations, hangs out with other employees at the watercooler
              talking about their kid's school play instead of reading comp.*.
              this is basically the same problem with women who complan about
              the "young male culture" of silicon valley. gee, if you were a
              stockholder, would you want a fleet of nattily dressed hipsters
              or guys with no lives that hacked around the clock? --psb
              \_ you meant to say:  "family-oriented 9-to-5ers vs.
                 techie hipsters with no lives who hacked around the clock"
              \_ The phrase "straw man" comes to mind.
2000/12/19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20131 Activity:nil
12/18   B2Bi company has top level job openings!  Current needs include
        Senior Buzzword Generator and Senior Buzzword Valiation Engineer.
        3+ years dotcom experience, an english degree or an avid dilbert
        reader preferred but all experience levels welcome to apply!
        <DEAD>www.b2bi.buzzwords.com/jobs/bullshit.html<DEAD> for details. -geek
        \_ Also openings for the right Senior Buzzword Integration
           Architect and Designer
        \_ wtf you are trying to say?!  Are you an English major got
        rejected by those dotcom companies?
2000/12/18 [Industry/Jobs, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:20122 Activity:nil
12/17   The vast majority of those stupid dot com companies are ones
        that don't do jack shit. Is WebObjects or OpenWave soon to be
        on the chopping blocks?
        http://www.fuckedupcompany.com
2000/12/17-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:20108 Activity:high
15:58   /csua/pub/jobs/webMethods2.  Come work at the rapidly expanding
        company where CSUA h0zers such as smurf,mel,oj,boyd,eric,dstein
        and van already work. -eric
        \_ So what do you guys actually DO?
                \_ Buzzword generation.  B2Bi was good.  Nominations for other
           http://www.webmethods.com/company/executives_board/0,1323,,00.html
                   top choices?
        \_ what locations?
        \_ No Berkeley folk involved in running this company.
           http://www.webmethods.com/company/executives_board/0,1323,,00.html
           \_ VP Marketing Development and VP Product Development went to Cal.
                \_ Doesn't say they got degrees.  Just hung out and got stoned.
        \_ Release architect = build engineer.  Basically you do installers
           and makefiles and/or other scripted stuff to build their
           products.  Pretty mundane (unexciting) work so it should pay
           you well.  At least $80k/yr for a couple yrs experience or
           you're being taken advantage.
           \_ Yes. Exactly.  So my point is that why didn't they just call it
              Build engineer or release manager or something.  Architect?
        \_ Does this person have to do bad-*ss source version countrol as well,
           or is it just limited version release control?
                \_ Typically this sort of job involves the whole thing.  What
                   you describe as "limited" is nothing more than running an
                   rdist or rsync with the right parameters once or twice a
                   week.
                   \_ Indeed.
2000/12/8 [Industry/Jobs] UID:20038 Activity:high
12/7    God I hate doing sustaining work.  --disgruntled employee
        \_ ehhh...Are you not CS major?  If you are, why are you doing
        sustaining work?
           \_ I am CS.  Someone's gotta fix the bugs.
              I just hate fixing other people's product bugs.
                \_ 'sustaining work' is for gimps.  Are you intelligent?
                   If so, get yourself some real core work, or quit and get
                   core work at a different company.
        \_ yet another reason why it's hard to keep engineers happy.  You
           jump up and down on new projects and new technology, but you fail
           to understand the big picture.  The big picture is: WHERE IS THE
           MONEY?  Cool projects are meaningless if it doesn't make any money.
           "Sustaining work" is what makes a good product better and it is
           what rakes in the big bucks.  -management
           \_ Yeah money in your pocket, just how much you pay a sustaining
              guy?
                \_ I get 80k/y.  Doesn't seem worth it... --disgruntled
                   \_ It's not.  I repeat my question.  Are you smart?  If so,
                      what are you doing wasting your life in gimp work.  If
                      not, well, this kind of work is what you were born to do.
                      \_ 80k/yr is fine for someone one year out of college.
                         Maybe he is just earning his stripes.
                         \_ What is the cash value of the lost
                            skill development and contentedness incurred
                            by being a gimp?
           \_ yeah, keep doing that at a startup... see how far that gets.
              no real value add == death to company.
        \_ If you don't like it, don't do it.  It's as simple as that.
           I happen to enjoy terrorizing wimpy developers by finding tons
           of bugs in their crappy work, and making them swallow them.
           Unfortunately, that sometimes involves development work -
           building load tools to crash their lousy code.
2000/11/28-29 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:19935 Activity:insanely high
11/28   Is it better career-wise to have an inflated title (Senior Architect)
        at a company full of unqualified idiots or a regular title (Java
        Engineer) at a company that knows what it's doing?
              \_ My mom was called a Analyst by the Gov. for 13 years. She
                 wrote the AI's that help fighter planes takeoff and land
                 from carriers and that make sure the shuttle's booster tanks
                 are functioning correctly.
                 In the long run, if you know your stuff, it doesn't matter
                 that you are called a Analyst or a NOCMonkey.
        \_ "Java Engineer". I've got to add that to my list of oxymorons.
        \_ I dunno. Would you be more impressed by a Member of Technical
           Staff from Bell Labs or a Senior VP from http://dogfood.com? Different
           people will answer that question differently. Which one do
           you want to be?
              \_ how about "programmer" at Bell Labs? You know that's
                 Kernigan and Pikes designation.
           \_ how does Member of Technical Staff compare with Senior
              Software Engineer?
                \_ "manager".  "director".  And prefix with "senior" to make
                   it a total of 4 more.
              \_ Well at sun MTS is lower than SSE, so I'd rather be
                 SSE. - MTS at sun
        \_ Senior Architect isn't a very high ranking title.
           \_ What tech titles are above that besides VP Eng and CTO?
                \_ Depends on the size of the company. I was offered a job
                   as a chief architect in a startup and I would have reported
                   directly to the CEO had I accepted their offer.
                   [moved. -motd continuity god]
                \_ "manager".  "director".  And prefix with "senior" to make
                   it a total of 4 more.
                   \_ Plus "lead". Though it depends on whether you want
                      to and are good at managing people. If you want to
                      build things, stay away from management. If your
                      skills are getting rusty or you are ambitious, go
                      for the manager title. There are also the extremely
                      rare posistions like Sun Fellow, which allow you
                      to do whatever you want.
                      \_ Cisco had Distinguished Engineers and Fellows,
                         which bascially ment you did what you wanted.
                         One fellow was also PostMaster for a time. I
                         think that Tony Li was a fellow also. Now being
                         known as Mr. BGP, that's a good title. I'd like
                         to be known as Mr. <Major Internet Protocol Here>.
                         \_ Mr. ICMP Echo Request.  Mr Ping to his friends.
        \_ career-wise: inflated title, no question.
           This is based on assuptions derived from the fact that you
           are asking this question in the first place.
           Impress people who actually matter: the second one.
        \_ whatever pays more and as long as you feel justified in what
        you are doing to earn that title, then be happy, if you feel your
        title is too low to reflect your importance, then leave or ask for
        higher position. (or more money to compensate - but money never really
        does)
        \_ are you inSANE???? tell me that $200K a year wouldnt compensate
           for having "NOCmonkey" on your business card.
           "never" should almost never be used.
           \_ there can still be emptiness felt, even the richest people feel
           empty at what they are doing..
              \_ Yeah, but in 5 years, they can AFFORD to do something
                 "meaningful, yet penniless"
                \_ I don't.  -Rich&Full
                  \_ maybe for now, but in a few years.. you'll want something
                   more... everything we do is chewing bubblegum.. the flavor
                   runs out.. hopefully not before we die.
                   \_ Maybe you're sitting on your ass, patting your head,
                      rubbing your stomach, chewing gum, and watching the
                      market tank.  I'm enjoying life.  -R&F
                      \_ which for you apparently involves getting in silly
                         discussions on the motd.  wow.
                         \_ Gosh, I guess.  And for you involves getting in
                            silly discussions on the motd from _work_?  I do
                            what I want, went I want, how I want, report to
                            nobody and answer for nothing.  Your pointed
                            comments are damaging to my poor self esteem.
                            Please stop before I hurt myself or something.
2000/11/22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Jobs] UID:19884 Activity:high
11/21  What's the slaray and options range for a Java Developer nowadays?
       BS/EECS with 2+ years of experience, mostly not Java tho.
       \_ http://www.salary.com
          \_ $83k
          \_ I'd swear <DEAD>salay.com<DEAD> is run by some company trying to get people
             hired for peanuts.  I think their figures are bogus.  I believe
             they're the ones that take a countrywide average and then add
             some unknown figure for location.  It's all voodoo.
       \_ 80K - 100K.
2000/10/17-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:19510 Activity:insanely high
10/17   So I was sitting in a cafe doing some homework and I overheard
        two people discussing disciplinary action against this 14-year-old
        Cal student who was "hacking" something on a campus library
        computer.  Mentioned was the fact that
                a) no malicious intent was involved, "he just wanted to use his
                   own OS"
                b) the dragonfly OS was installed,
        but I couldn't find any info on what this could mean.  These weren't
        technical people, so they might have mistaken OS for application
        These people were to decide what punishment was fair for this kid,
        and they had no clue as to what actually happened.  Does anybody
        else know any details?  Who is this kid?  What did he actually do?
        \_ He should be expelled and charged damages.
        \_ Why are two non-techincal persons making decision on something
           involving technical issues?
                \_ because Congress has taught them that's the way things
                   are done in this country.
                \_ It isn't a technical issue.  This is an administrative
                   punishment issue.  If you punched someone out on campus,
                   it wouldn't be a boxing/sports issue.  Stop being an
                   elitist nerd.
                   \_ Except that if you don't know what "punching" is but
                      only learn from the book of regulations that "punching"
                      is prohibited and someone committed it, you won't be
                      able to decide on fair puhishment.
                        \_ I've never been a professional boxer.  I know what
                           punching is.  I've never been a professional sys
                           admin but I know what violating system security and
                           replacing the installed software is.  The details of
                           the crime are not important.  What is important is
                           that this moron did something wrong and must have
                           understood in advance that this was a Bad Thing.
                           He had intent.  He didn't accidentally replace the
                           system software.  Time to go back to HS or JC for
                           a few years and learn to grow up and then try a
                           real school again where other students don't have
                           time to sit down at a fucked up terminal this idiot
                           broke.  Try hacking your corporate network, see how
                           *that* gets handled.  Expect to lose your job and
                           get sued for damages far beyond your ability to pay.
2000/10/13 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:19468 Activity:nil
10.13   http://www.rackspace.com/goconfigure/recommended/server_freebsd.php
        \_ Why post this?  I wouldn't recommend rackspace as a colo --oj
2000/9/18-19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:19272 Activity:very high
9/17    Does anyone carry more than one job?  I'm looking for something
        extra (income, learning, exp) on the weekends.  Wonder if anyone
        has ever done it.
           \_ I did it while I was at Cal. I worked to part time jobs.
              They money was great (I was making ~ $25 / hr with both
              combined, yes its not much these days, but this was in
              early 90's), but balancing work and studying was hard.
              I ultimately quit one of them (my boss was a jerk).
              My advice (if you are a undergrad) is to just study hard,
              and maybe work part-time; don't pull this two job stunt
              and short-change your future.
        \_ Yes.  I had 3 over the summer.  It was painful - paolo
           Now i just have 2.
           \_ How do you find the 2nd job?  I assume you don't
              carry 2 full-time jobs...
              \_ 1 is 8 hrs/week, the other is 16 hrs/week.  the 2nd
                 job found me.  email me for details.
                 \_ sign you post twink.
        \_ I had two jobs last year, one $15/hr as a sys admin at lbnl,
           and one making $150/hr on weekends as a dancer.  I learned a
           lot more from the first one, but the second was a lot of fun.
           \_ so do you swing?
        \_ Lots of people do. I have one full-time job and then a parttime
           one on campus (weekend and evenings). Learn a lot, have fun
           and getting paid for it.
2000/9/7-8 [Industry/Jobs] UID:19195 Activity:moderate
9/6     How accurate do you think are the results at http://salary.com?
        \_ Take all numbers with grain of salt and then add at least 20%
           for living here, their data being old, and job title inflation.
           Add even more if you're senior level or walk on water or have
           above average buzzword compliance.
        \_ the curves are right, the salaries aren't.  Add 20-30% to the
           salaries there.
           \_ Depends on the positions.  Some of the numbers are rather high..
              $90k for someone with 2 years experience writing web applications
              in perl and java?  Add 20% to that?
                \_ Maybe.  Depends on the job specifics and how desperate
                   they are.  To reiterate something that's been covered on
                   the motd many times before: you're worth whatever you can
                   get from someone.  If a 2 year guy can get $150k and a 10
                   year guy can only get $45k, the 2 year guy is worth more.
                   It all depends on how well you negotiate and how desperate
                   they are.  There's no such thing as "working your way up"
                   or "time served".  -been there, there now
                   \_ There is such a thing as the "perception" of working
                      your way up and time served.  Notice that this fact
                      does not contradict the previous post.  If you're
                      an honest person who knows their stuff and get paid/
                      respect based on your integrity, prior experience,
                      and gratitude, "that's wonderful".  However, you can
                      also get a lame salary under various circumstances,
                      and, "that is sad".  And then there are people who
                      get a great wage and nice working conditions, who suck.
                      Naturally, most people want to kick the crap out of them.
                        \_ I'd agree with that.  -previous poster
2000/9/7-8 [Computer/SW/Languages, Industry/Jobs] UID:19192 Activity:high
9/6     Work for a Big 5 company (Business Services/ Consulting) and just
        got a raise to $55K, as a Senior Computer Consultant.  Is this low?
        Been with the firm 2 years.
        \_ Does your job involve programming?  a 3yr programmer get $80/yr.
           \_ Nope, auditing the computer controls at companies.
        \_ I just started fresh-out-of-cal, $62k/yr not including bonus +
           benefits and that's still considered low by my own peers. Then
           again, I'm in a different line of business than you are which
           could explain it (no, not sysadmin).
        \_ Where are you located?
           \_ $55K senior must mean poster is in Ohio or somewhere like that
           \_ Actually it's the SF office :(
        \_ bit low.  i was bringing in consultants from Cal (and stanfurd
           sometimes) at the big 5 beginning at around 65k.  managers and
           senior managers were making 120-180k.  senior consultants were
           in the 80k-100k range.  this was at a big 5 within eBusiness
           consulting. -uctt
        \_ If you have no tech skills and you're making over 30k, you're
           overpaid.
           \_ Get a clue.
                \_ "Duh, I iz a jeanyus!  I kan post 'get uh kloo'"  You are
                   an idiot and a waste of bits.
        \_ Looks low to me, esp after 2 yrs. I work in tech support, work
           40 hrs a week and make 68K. A friend of mine is a consultant
           (non-technical) with a Big 5 company and he makes 75K after 3
           years there. It's time to test the waters out there for more $.
                \_ I think the 75k at 3 years is low if he's in this area and
                   not Arkansas.
2000/8/31 [Industry/Jobs] UID:19144 Activity:nil 56%like:19092
8/31    Still hiring at http://Phone.com /usr/local/csua/pub/jobs/Phone.com/ for
        more info.  hiring new grads, too.
2000/8/4-6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18886 Activity:low
8/4     Is it more common to have 1 year salary reviews or 6 month
        salary reviews?
        \_ 1 year
        \_ The trend is for more frequent reviews, however.
           Can't exactly have all your employees thinking the only
           way they can get a raise is to say you're going to leave.
        \_ 1 year is more common in general. 6 months for .com's.
        \_ It's common to get whatever you negotiate for.  There is no
           "industry standard" for anything.  Anyone who talks to you about
           what the "industry standard" is, is either lying or stupid.  There
           is no source of information for any of this stuff for reviews,
           salaries, option packages, etc, etc, etc.
2000/8/4-6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18885 Activity:moderate
8/4     What's the average yearly raise (without jumping ship)?
        0-2%?  2-4%?  4-6%?  6-8%? 8-10%? > 10?
        \_ When I jump I get 15-35%.  When I don't jump, I get 8% and they
           always cry and high pressure beg me to stay but never come up with
           more bucks.  "My offer at this other company is $X" and the current
           place just turns pale and then asks if there's anything else they
           can do to keep me.  Uh huh.  "WHERE'S THE MONEY, HONEY!?"
        \_ > 10%
        \_ My first year, got a measly 5%. Then in this year alone, got
           20% raise *twice*
           \_ why?  Got promoted?  Thought you were leaving?
              \_ first was a level promotion (doesn't mean that much except
                 i get paid more), and second was an adjustment to keep
                 pace with dotcoms.
                 \_ Now this is a company that you can stay with.  what's
                    the name? =)
                 \_ Did you get the two 20% raises as counter-offers when you
                    were thinking about jumping ship, or did you get the
                    raises even though you were not considering leaving?
                    \_ HP. They were afraid I was going to leave even though
                       I had given no indication (I'm happy here). It's cuz
                       so many other people have left.
        \_ When I was at Cisco, they told me salaries were going up
           17% a year. That includes people jumping ship. You make your own
           estimates (I'm guessing 10% if you stay, 25% if you jump around).
        \_ 40% first year, 100% second year, 25% third year.
                \_ You must have started with dirt.  $20k * 1.4 = $24k.
                   $24k x 2 = $48k.  $48k * 1.25 = $60k.  Hmmm... so your
                   first two raises *tripled* your initial salary??  It
                   _must_ the case that you were getting nothing and now have
                   an almost FMV salary _or_ that you're now getting paid an
                   outrageously high salary.  Is there something else going
                   on?  Is this a startup where you're employee #2 and own
                   10% of the company?
        \_ You people are nuts.  Find somewhere to work that you _like_, and
           that pays you enough that you don't worry about it.  If it really
           bothers you whether you're getting paid _enough_ or _as much as
           everyone else_ you've got issues.
           \_ Yes, this is a nice fantasy.  Living in the bay area with sky
              rocketing housing and other costs, there's no such thing as
              "paid enough that you don't worry about it".  And if I'm working
              my ass off for half the pay the slacker next to me is getting,
              then my issue is that I'm getting fucked.  You must be working
              in academia or <DEAD>Dilbert_Corp.com<DEAD>.
              \_ Part of my definition of "someplace I like" is that I'm not
                 working next to slacker idiots who get paid as much as me.
                 And I'm not working my ass off...  I'm not slacking, but I'm
                 not killing myself, and the company doesn't ask me to.
                 Could I get paid more?  Probably.  Can I afford a house in
                 SV?  Not yet.  This doesn't mean "fuck loyalty, fuck
                 happiness, gotta job-hop till I hit the jackpot" though.
                 I know so many people doing this, because they take as given
                 that their job is the negative, the money from it is the
                 positive, and what they do with the money will make up for
                 all of their work-related unhappiness.  Sounds needlessly
                 complicated to me.  Find a job, be happy.  If you need more
                 money, yeah, sure, that's a factor.  But just job-hopping
                 because of some vague sense of self-worth, or because some
                 job website (or, dear god, the motd) told you "you aren't
                 making enough" is idiotic.
           \_ If I don't get paid as much as everyone else then
              I think I'm getting stiffed and any like I may have had
              turns into hate.
2000/8/4-5 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Industry/Jobs] UID:18878 Activity:moderate
8/5-1   When people talk about flex dollars (for insurance and stuff)
        they always say to use it or lose it.  What does this mean?
        I thought you could always elect to have the leftover money
        go towards your salary or 401(k) contributions.
        \_ Then you weren't paying attention, were you?
        \_ I get leftover monies in a lump-sum around mid-year.
           You can look at this as them "secretly" giving you a higher
           salary, and having to pay for your own benefits. (tax-
           advantaged, and at group rates)
        \_ Most places if you don't use the leftover money it goes to the
           company doing the flex plan.  However, most places also let
           you spend money you haven't put in yet (at least for medical)
           so it's possible to spend money you haven't put in,
           leave the company, and not have to pay it.
2000/7/31 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18825 Activity:nil
7/30    "Trevor J. Buckingham
        Professional Badass"
        \_ "I am sorry that my industry-related internships are more
            prestigious than yours.  I am sorry that I know asps, jsps, sql7."
            \_ We are sorry too, Trevor.
        \_ "Nokia 8890" ... whew.  If he'd had a 61xx phone, I would
           totally have lost all respect for him.
        \_ If we send this to eminem, will he turn it into a song?
        \_ What's up will at the hate speech.  Is that crap illegal or what?
           \_ What hate speech are you talking about?  I don't see any
              in the posts above.
                \_ All speech is legal except for things like yelling "FIRE!"
                   in a crowded theatre, unless you go to a school in a place
                   like Berkeley where the only free speech is that which the
                   local leftist powers that be deem so.
                   \_ Also, speech which directly incites violence (also
                      known as "fighting words") can be illegal.
                      \_ Goddammit, them's fightin' words.  I'm comin'
                         to fuck your day up!  -John
                         \_ you already did.
2000/7/15-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18687 Activity:high
7/14    I got a $10K raise after 6-months experience. Is this considered
        a low and insulting raise nowadays? -- Wondering about salary
        \_ go away trollboy
        \_ well gee that would depend on what your salary was wouldn't
           it now.  10% is considered good.
           \_ 10%? The very first 6-months should get you 15-20%
           \_ 10% is ridiculously insulting.  Good in what industry?  You're
              an auto mechanic maybe?  School teacher?
              \_ 10% is a pittance! Do you know what raise Oakland teachers
                 got this year? 40%!
                 \_ It's all relative.  My 10% increase is half their salary.
        \_ I got offered $75k from both northern and southern cal companies.
           Some company in Texas (you can guess which one) offered me $110k.
           I'm staying in the Bay Area.
           \_ This is ridiculous.  It has nothing to do with the thread.
               You just wanted to say you got an offer.  And I bet you spend
               your saturday nights watching trashy movies you find on the
               internet.  You disgust me.
              \_ I got 25% after 6 months, another 13% after the second 6.
2000/7/14-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18680 Activity:high
7/14    Could someone give me a salary estimate for an entry level java
        programmer...say in northern vs. southern california?
        \_ easily and with real examples:
           karenp (large co in silicon valley: starting : 80K)
           \_ 80K for entry_level?  what for 4yr+ exp?
           \_ hey, how do you "always answer a question literally" dorks
              respond to every day greetings like "how are you?" or
              "what's up?"
              \_ http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~karenp
           this should show you that LA sucks ass.  Well, actually
           LA just plains sucks ass no matter what.
                \_ Wow, "sucks ass" is still as declasse as the first time I
                   saw it.
                \_ Only sucks asses from LA use "sucks ass".
        \_ 50k.
        \_ yes
        \_ no.
           keithyw (small co in shitty LA: starting 54K)
           \_ http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~prole/images/keith.jpg
        \_ I got offered $75k from both northern and southern cal companies.
           Some company in Texas (you can guess which one) offered me $110k.
           I'm staying in the Bay Area. I just graduated. So any experience
           I have is only school/internship based.
           \_ This is ridiculous.  It has nothing to do with the thread.
               You just wanted to say you got an offer.  And I bet you spend
               your saturday nights watching trashy movies you find on the
               internet.  You disgust me.
               \_ I like those movies. I like my offers. I also like Star Trek.
           \_ If true, all this says is Texans are stupid and so are you for
              not taking them up on it.  Are you a Texan, too?
              \_ No. You couldn't pay me enough to live with Texans.
                 \_ Perhaps foolish. For the cost-of-living in TX, in 1 year
                    you could earn/save twice as much as if you lived here.
                    You'd save enough for a downpayment on a house in the BA.
                    \_ For some people working 25% more to make 50% more is
                       worth it. For some people it isn't.
        \_ really depends on where you work.  Shitty big companies where
           half the people get away with doing nothing will pay you more.
           Small interesting companies where you have to pull your weight
           will pay you less.  Yah life isn't fair.  The question is,
           are you a whore?
           \_ Big companies don't necessarily pay more than small co's.
              Interview, collect offers, see what happens.  Do the math.
              \_ No, but what I mean is that it does happen that way.
                 I do not mean to say that all big companies always pay more.
                 \_ how can you have ment to say something when you weren't the
                    person who wrote this in the frist place?
                 \_ From my experience and experience of my friends who are
                    also fresh grads, startups generally pay MORE than
                    big companies (in terms of salary and number of options).
                    Big companies oftentimes give better relocation or
                    starting bonuses, and they claim that their options are
                    more likely to be worth something.
                 \_ I have been on both sides of the world. Good big companies
                    aren't budging if you ask for LOTS of money plus stocks,
                    and of course all the other perks that come with it. Small
                    companies (that have no VC funding) may not as much mone-
                    tary power but MAY offer potentials once they go public,
                    when they debut their product(s) or when they get bought
                    out. Your mileage however may vary, so check all the facts
                    before taking an offer from a small company. In my exp.
                    however, I get paid better at a small startup, but of
                    course I have to work 2-3 times harder than at big firm.
2000/6/23-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18532 Activity:nil
6/22    Very small (<20 people) startup has job openings. Refer to
        http://www.viralon.com/Employment.html for more information.
        \_ Sounds like a spam company. And isn't the CEO the guy who totally
           flubbed taking advantage of the default homepage in the browser
           when working at Netscape?
2000/6/15 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:18472 Activity:very high
6/14    Graduated from Cal this year, interested in being a professional
        TA/lecturer (teaching 61x, 9x, etc). Is that a possibility, or do
        I have to be a real grad student?
        \_ Ask bh, he would know better than anyone on soda.  You'ld have to
           be a lecturer though, TA pay is shit. (Like $3,000/year or so.)
           \_ You are wrong. If you work TA full time, the salary is an order
              of magnitude larger, circa $30,000. Still ridiculous, but much
              less so than your $3,000 figure.
           \_ The $3,000/year figure is definitely from the unclued.
        \_ Depends on exactly what you mean
           1. Full-time TA after graduating: you can do but they pay the
              undergrad rate ($12/hr still?) talk to Clancy
           2. Summer lecturer: min requirement is a bachelor's CS degree,
              not sure what the pay is. They're usually pretty desperate
              for these, talk to bh.
              \_ Interesting note: all 3 of 61ABC are going to be taught by
                 graduating seniors this summer. Sad, but true.
                \_ Why would a graduate student like me want to teach in
                   the summer again?  The pay is squat (slightly less than
                   I earn as a GSR), the hours are long (10+ hour days easily)
                   and I'm no longer being paid/have time to work on
                   my research?  -nweaver
                   \_ Well obviously you wouldn't.  Maybe for the love of
                      teaching or some such crap.  Why would a graduating
                      senior do this instead of interning at their company?
                      Maybe they can get 2nd year students to TA for the first
                      year students.
           3. Full-time lecturer (like bh/Clancy): I forget the requirements,
              but they recently (within a year) interviewed 4 folks for an
              available spot so it's unlikely anything is open. -bz
                \_ Clancy has MSCS, bh has a PhD in Education
                   \_ Clancy only had a BS/Math the last time I checked, and
                      definitely only a BS when he was hired.
                      \_ Clancy was a PhD student who completed everything
                         but his dissertation.  I don't remember where, or
                         what program though.  This may have influenced his
                         being hired.
                         \_ Stanfurd. They hired him anyway.
2000/6/14 [Computer/SW/Database, Industry/Jobs] UID:18469 Activity:very high
6/12    \_ uctt, are you a contractor? what do you do?
        \_ full time employee at my own startup now. never contracted in my
           life.  but i did spent some time in big 5 consulting managing
           various e-Commerce projects and our team of consultants from big
           5 was always much better than the employees in the client company
           (that's why they were paying us $275-$350/hr to be there) -uctt
                \_ No.  They were paying that so management could have someone
                   to blame when it all falls to shit.  No one pays you more
                   because you're more skilled.  They don't have a basis to
                   judge your skill level.
                        \_ of course that's a big part of it.  we'll take
                           the blame if it all "falls to shit".  it's called
                           taking RESPONSIBILITY and i'll take the
                           responsiblity for a project in exchange for the
                           big bucks that they have to pay us.  i've
                           met morons in consulting.  i've met a lot more
                           morons that work as full time employees for the
                           client. -uctt
                           \_ You know why that is, right? The companies
                              that don't need your expertise don't hire
                              you. If there's a better staff in house then
                              likely they'll go with that. Granted,
                              sometimes management does stupid things
                              anyway, but I bet this helps explain your
                              experiences. --dim
                                \_ Holy cow!  I find myself agreeing 100% with
                                   dim.  Hell has just frozen over.
                                   \_ I think it's a great idea to hire
                                      consultants when the current staff
                                      is better.  What's the matter with
                                      you?!?
                                        \_ Sorry, what was I thinking.  I'll
                                           call uctt right away to pay more to
                                           get less.
                        \_ that's why nearly all of the largest and *best*
                           companies in the world employs a large number of
                           consultants.  why doesn't sun, cisco, microsoft,
                           oracle, hp, ibm, etc... all just hire the best
                           talent and do all of their work in house?
                           certainly they have the money to hire pepole
                           right? why do they have consulting companies in
                           there if the consulting companies easily cost 2x
                           as much as their normal employees?  oh...b/c
                           you know something that bill gates, john
                           chambers, scott mcnealy, larry ellison, etc.
                           doesn't know right? -uctt
                           \_ Your definition of "best" is what?  You mean the
                              way IBM took a huge fall in the 80s?  The way
                              Sun, Oracle and others needed the DoJ to level
                              the playing field?  The way HP is falling apart?
                              Or that Cisco had to buy Arrowpoint because they
                              couldn't build their own load balancing switches?
                              You're confused.  Big != better.  The *best*
                              companies are the ones you've probably never
                              heard of.  You'll know who they are 5 years from
                              now.  These large but not best companies use
                              consultants because the *best* people wouldn't
                              work for them at any price.  I'd be ashamed to
                              have IBM or Oracle on my resume.  The *best*
                              people have all left these giant ugly slow beasts
                              for startups.  It's still happening today.  Don't
                              spend too much time convincing yourself how great
                              you are.  The day you meet the people working
                              for the *best* companies will be the worst day of
                              your life as your giant ego comes crumbling and
                              tumbling down and all of IBM's horses and all of
                              Oracles men won't be able to put it back together
                              again.  The emperor wears no clothes.  I know the
                              exact same thing your top 5 list of CEOs knows:
                              that their employees suck, they can't hire the
                              best so they have to pay vampires and leeches to
                              do it for them and just pass along the costs to
                              their customers.  It's people like you that make
                              software and hardware so expensive for no real
                              reason.  You're not a value-add.  You're a value
                              minus.
                                \_  who are you???  Preach it brother!  you rock.
                                    - anonymous#1fan
                                        \_ Thanks.  Just calling it like I see
                                           it.
                              \_ Uh ... gee!
                              \_ so what are the best companies right now
                                 that i haven't heard of but i will hear
                                 about 5 years from now?  and why is it that
                                 most of the upper level executives in large
                                 corportations have worked in consulting at
                                 some point in their careers?  just name a
                                 few of these companies and we'll continue
                                 the discussion... -uctt
                                 the discussion...but i can tell you right
                                 now that either their executive staff is
                                 made up of former consultants, many of
                                 their developers are former consultants, or
                                 they just don't have enough cash for
                                 outside consultants....YET.  all of the
                                 successful companies have used consultants
                                 very heavily and they cannot all be wrong.
                                 -uctt
2000/6/12-14 [Industry/Startup, Industry/Jobs] UID:18450 Activity:high
6/12    This is prob. been asked many times already, but what is the
        standard scale for converting from hourly/contractor to yearly/
        employee?  Have choice btwn stock option or bonus structure but
        I think i will take bonus structure...  -sky
        \_ Hourly->Yearly is multiply by 2000, but contractor->employee is
           much harder.
        \_ hourly->yearly is correct.  but for contractor->employee i
           usually like to do hourly * 1000.  so if you're making
           $120/hr, that would be $240,000 annual.  but if you want to be an
           employee, it would give around $120,000 or maybe slightly more.
           -uctt
           \_ Wow!  Are you saying that a company will pay twice as much
              to a contractor as opposed to an employee?  Why?  I do realize
              to a contractor as opposed to an employee?
              \_ no, he's saying that contractors have to pay more of their
                 money to the gubmint as taxes
              Why?  I do realize
              that as a contractor you have to pay self-employment
              tax, health insurance, retirement benefits, vacation, etc.
              When I account for all this it seems to me that contractors
              should get about 1.4--1.5 times as much as salaried employees.
              How do you come up with your x2 number.  Thanks. -emin
              \_ yes, they will pay twice as much for a contractor over a
                 salaried employee.  why?
                 1.  usually contractors are better skilled
                        \_ Hahahahhahahhhahaa.. cough.. gasp... wheeze....
                                \_ contrary to popular belief, not everyone
                                   (other than you) is stupid.  every day
                                   our group is looked at to make sure that
                                   we are adding value to the client's
                                   projects.  and every day they realize
                                   that for every one of our guys we do the
                                   work of at least 3 of their employees.
                                   we work longer hours and more
                                   importantly, we're more productive.
                                   that's why they can justify to their
                                   C-levels the amount of money that is
                                   being spent.  start your own company
                                   and maybe you'll learn. -uctt
                                   \_ Sounding pretty defensive.  I'm sure
                                      each of you is a tremendous value-add
                                      and >insert buzzwords 4 through 16 here<
                                      Yep.  You're worth any 10 normal men!
                 2.  you can get them quickly.  if you need 2 highly skilled
                     java EJB developers with 2+ years of java experience,
                     it will take you at least 2 months to interview 10+
                     people and find 2 good ones and have them start.  with
                     contractors, you can have 2 in your office in 1-2
                     weeks.
                 3.  if you only need them for 3-6 months, you can get them
                     to agree to that.  try telling a salaried employee that
                     "your salary is $120k but you may have to get fired in
                     3 months cuz we won't need you then".
                 4.  they usually do not give them stock, they usually can
                     make them work, and they can usually get rid of them
                     relatively painlessly whenever they want to.
                 short answer?  flexibility.  that flexibility is worth
                 paying 2x.  the 2x comes from experience of hiring
                 contractors, hiring employees, and hiring
                 contractors->employees. -uctt
        \_ uctt, are you a contractor? what do you do?
                \_ contract.
                        \_ No wonder he thinks contractors are more skilled.
        \_ full time employee at my own startup now. never contracted in my
           life.  but i did spent some time in big 5 consulting managing
           various e-Commerce projects and our team of consultants from big
           5 was always much better than the employees in the client company
           (that's why they were paying us $275-$350/hr to be there) -uctt
                \_ No.  They were paying that so management could have someone
                   to blame when it all falls to shit.  No one pays you more
                   because you're more skilled.  They don't have a basis to
                   judge your skill level.
                        \_ of course that's a big part of it.  we'll take
                           the blame if it all "falls to shit".  it's called
                           taking RESPONSIBILITY and i'll take the
                           responsiblity for a project in exchange for the
                           big bucks that they have to pay us.  i've
                           met morons in consulting.  i've met a lot more
                           morons that work as full time employees for the
                           client. -uctt
                           \_ You know why that is, right? The companies
                              that don't need your expertise don't hire
                              you. If there's a better staff in house then
                              likely they'll go with that. Granted,
                              sometimes management does stupid things
                              anyway, but I bet this helps explain your
                              experiences. --dim
                                \_ Holy cow!  I find myself agreeing 100% with
                                   dim.  Hell has just frozen over.
                                   \_ I think it's a great idea to hire
                                      consultants when the current staff
                                      is better.  What's the matter with
                                      you?!?
2000/6/5-6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18418 Activity:insanely high
6/5     Need advice. I've been working 12hr/day for an entire year thinking
        that I'd get more raise+bonus. Today, I got my raise+bonus.
        Percentage-wise, it's almost the same as before when I worked 8hr/day.
        Is there not a correlation between how much work you put in and
        how much reward you get back?                   -disillusioned
        \_ quit
        \_ There is a correlation between how much they pay you and
           how much they think they can pay you without your quitting
           or doing a half-assed job.
        \_ Maybe there were not made aware of all your accomplishments?
           Or maybe they can only justify max X raise/bonus, having
           nothing to do with you. It's not always work more, but what
           you accomplish.
        \_ "Work Smarter, not Harder!"
        \_ "Blow Smarter, not Harder!"
           \_ Yes!  Agree!
                \- if you are willing to walk away, you can always bring
                up the fact that you are disatisfied. bluffing on this is
                of course risky. --psb
                   \_ hey psb, wanna play poker?
        \_ Obviously, they do not appreciate you. Find a gf who does.
        \_ Where'd you get the idea that working so hard would get you anything
           but tired and lifeless?  You need to work where it'll show and do
           nothing the rest of the time.  Kids today....
2000/6/5-8 [Finance, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:18414 Activity:nil
4/65    A couple of new IT positions available at NSSB in
        /csua/pub/jobs/NikkoSalomonSmithBarney or
        http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~yumin/nssb
        Also to answer those of you who asked if an IT person can become a
        trader, one IT has become an equity junior trader in June.  --yumin
        \_ One out of how many?
2000/5/23-26 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Industry/Jobs] UID:18322 Activity:nil
5/23    Anyone have experience implementing KAME or any other sort of IPSEC
        tunnel on FreeBSD?  I'd appreciate it if someone could share their
        experience with me.  -John
2000/5/10 [Industry/Jobs, Finance/Investment] UID:18224 Activity:nil
5/10    If anyone is interested in working in Tokyo, there are several
        positions available at Nikko Salomon Smith Barney as follows.
        * DBA
        * Web Based System Developer
        * System / Marketing Support - Bond Portfolio Analysis
        * Tokyo Fixed Income Application Support
        * Asst. Project Manager for Multi-Currency Project
        * Control / Data Security Program Controller
        * Systems Analyst/Programmer Financial Systems - Treasury
        * Programmer / Analyst - Trade Support
        * General Accounting Developer
        Details are in http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~yumin/nssb
        \_ Heh.
           HARDWARE/SOFTWARE PLATFORMS
           *  Soralis, AIX, NT, C, JAVA, Perl, etc...
2000/5/10 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:18221 Activity:nil
10. Lost the application along with the Rose lawfirm records.

9. Just got Chelsae out, why start over?

8. Hillary does not want to have to learn to bake cookies again.

7. Not worth the effort since the kid can't vote until he/she is 18.

6. Was going to but then Buddy came along and ... well...

5. Had enough servants around the Whitehouse.

4. One big baby in the family was enough.

3. All of the spare Whitehouse bedrooms were already rented out.

2. Adoption application includes fingerprints and an FBI background check.

1. Bill kept insisting on a seventeen year old girl.
2000/5/4-5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18169 Activity:very high
4/34    My dept is short of people. Is it better to recruit the "perfect"
        employee and risk losing development time, or recruit a mediocre
        employee whom we will invest a huge amount of time in training?
        \_ you won't find the perfect employee..he doesn't exist.
           give the underdog a chance.
        \_ how about somebody in between?
        \_ no offense but if you can't make these judgements, maybe you
           shouldn't be the one doing the hiring.
           \_ Note that, from the original post, the possibilities that the
        \_ We went with an 70% guy (95-100% being a perfect person).  Out
              poster is actually performing HR duties, or just collecting
           was as best as we could do, and we don't even have an HR person
              information, are almost identical.
        \_ We went with a 70% guy (95-100% being a perfect person).  Out
           of 30 resumes, we phone screened 10 and interviewed 4.  70%
                \_ Are you sure they're 40%, and not 40.95327%????
           was the best we could do, and we don't even have an HR person
           and ran out of personal contacts.  Two people were 45% and one
           was 55% but had already taken another offer.  Everyone else
           was 40% or below.
        \_ How the hell can you determine one to be a 45, another 55, 70?
           \_ Breast size
           \_ Taos "Clue" test
           \_ Clue.  No written test required.  Also, these numbers are
              suitability for our position, not raw brain cell count
              or aggregate computer knowledge.
2000/5/2-3 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:18158 Activity:very high 70%like:18157
4/32    What are the best job search/employee search websites for non-techies?
        Should include sites where employers can look for non-techie people.
        \_ Who cares?  There aren't any.  Use a newspaper.  Check the signs
           on the doors at local fast food places.  Maybe you can get a job at
           Krispie Kream and those of us with real jobs can skip the line?
           \_ unfortuatly, thats not true. my poly sci major roomate was a
              fucking idiot with no skills or knowledge or inteligence
              *except* the ability to get all A's in his three classes
              a semester of fluff.  when he graduated, he went to go work for
              goldman-sachs on the basis of this one skill making what i would
              guess is comparable to good tech salaries(on the order of 100k).
              in a good , fair workld, run by engineers, skill would be corelated
              to salary, but it is not.  nor is inteligence or knowledge.
              someone with great grades form uc berkeley can get a high paying
              job if they know how to wear a suit and fit in with whatever
              kind of nincopoop they happen to want to work for.
              \_ Hey, calm down there fella! Maybe you should take a minute,
                 sit back, listen to your whalesong tapes, do your aroma
                 therapy thing, then come back and fix your goddamn
                 grammar and your suck-ass typos.
        \_ [local motd flavor purged]
           [if it actually added humor, it would still be here]
2000/4/28-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18140 Activity:moderate
4/28    Can someone recommend a good salary survey site for
        non-management technical positions? Most sites I could find
        have outdated data or not enough data.
        \_ http://salary.com
           \_ This is pretty good... compares to offers that I have been getting.
        \_ http://www.pencom.com e.g. <DEAD>salarysurvey.pencom.com/SalExt<DEAD>
           --social science major
           \_ This is WAY WAY low if you graduating EECS/CS.
        \_ Are you BS/BA or MS? $65k is average, $75k+ if you're good.
2000/4/26-29 [Computer/SW/Mail, Industry/Jobs] UID:18121 Activity:kinda low 50%like:19092
4/26    QA internship at Sendmail, Inc. in Emeryville.
        See /usr/local/csua/pub/jobs/Sendmail/QAintern for more info.
        \_ Is this sort of like "Bong Hits and Staring At A Wall ...For Dummies"
          \_ or, "We're not making as much money as we thought, so we'll
             get some dumb intern"?
             \_ It's a nice listing. -notchris
                \_ Bullshit.  They want a 4 year degree and coding experience
                   for a QA internship.  That's ridiculous.  Maybe that was a
                   decent job for a desperate NCG in the earlier 90s but those
                   times are long gone.  I could get 80k/year starting salary
                   FTE with out trying for what they want for a shitty
                   internship.  Join the 00's.  The 90's are over.  It's a
                   *really* lame listing.
                   \_ I considered everything you said before I wrote it
                      was a nice listing, especially because your points
                      have been brought up in earlier motd's.  Since you don't
                      really care for the listing, I don't feel it's
                      necessary to convey to you why it's a good one.
                      -notchris
                        \_ In other words, I made some valid points that you
                           can't refute so you're just going to repeat
                           yourself?
                           \_ You can think that.  Have a nice day.
                   \_ umm if they say they only want a degree that means they
                      will take a freshman.  If they want new graduates they
                      say somthing like "must have 10 years of experiance
                      with java and perl"
                   \_ NCG? FTE?
                      \_ New CS grad; full-time employee
                        \_ New College Grad.
        \_ Sad that the motd had to help 'fix' the initial idiotic listing
           asking for a 4 year degree for an internship.  So, when is
           Sendmail going to start making money?
2000/3/21-23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:17816 Activity:high
3/21    Will someone recommend a good place to post my resume?  For instance,
        what do people here think of <DEAD>Monster.com...techies.com<DEAD>?  Thanks.
        \_ if you dont mind working as a contractor use dice or monster, if you
           want to deal directly with companies, look in craigslist or
                \_ Don't post it publically if you're not ready to burn bridges.
           go to various websites and follow their 'jobs' links.
           if you do web based development, post your login.
        \_ another question: how do you prevent your current employer from
                seeing your resume on these sites?
                \_ Don't post it publically if you're not ready to burn
                   bridges.
                   [your manager could be browsing from AOL]
                        \_ could also be positive -- chance for a raise,
                                more responsibility and others.
                                \_ No.  You should go and ask for that stuff.
                                   Good managers know that they won't keep an
                                   employee long term who is unhappy no matter
                                   how much money they toss around, especially
                                   if you're all set to leave without even
                                   telling them there was a problem.
                                   \_ Yeah, that pretty much matches my
                                      experience also.  By the time it gets to
                                      the point where the employee is sending
                                      out resumes, monsy won't do much besides
                                      delay the inevitable.
        \_ http://dice.com. My mom and my best friend both found new jobs
           in 2-3 weeks after posting on dice.
                \_ 2-3 weeks?  What's wrong with them?  Try 2-3 hours.
                   \_ Are you retarded or something?  Haven't you noticed that
                      there's a sort of theme as far as posting followups to
                      the motd goes?  Moron.
                        \_ No.  I haven't.  What theme?
                   \_ Both wanted a decent long term place to work, not
                      just the latest startup craze. Besides neither was
                      looking for straight coding. My mom took over as eng.
                      lead/architect and my best friend took over as a
                      director. These jobs are a little harder to find.
                        \_ Ok... 2-3 days.
                           \_ That's what it took to get the interviews
                              and offers lined up. They switched employers
                              2-3 weeks (including 2wk notice) after posting
                              on dice.
        \_ hotjobs generated LOTSA calls and email for me.. they have an
           employer-block feature but I don't know how well it works -shac

        \_ Dice is best for contracts, hands down. Their ability to search
        by phone area code is way useful too. I often am not interested in
        Bay Area as a whole, say want to exclude South Bay. -muchandr
        \_ whomever you use make sure you don't put down a phone number
           unless ou really enjoy getting woekn up by someone far too cheerful
           who is trying to convince ou that babysitting databases is the
           most exciting career move out there.
           \_ "CLICK!"  Last message on my machine was some chick saying that
              she's from Blah Inc (which I never heard of) and random chick #2
              gave her my resume and said I should be offered this great job
              opportunity, etc, etc, etc.  I love my answering machine.
2000/2/25-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:17619 Activity:nil
2/25    Unless you have a true and deep passion for CS and computers in general
        you should go do something else.  Since you obviously don't have a deep
        passion for anything and you'll be bored in and hate pretty much any
        jobs you have, you should make sure to avoid the better paying yet
        boring jobs and go into the lower paying and boring jobs.  That way
        the job market remains insanely imbalanced and those who came before
        can be assured they'll always have a salary way out of whack with what
        they'd be worth in a normal job market.  Got it now?
2000/2/17-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW] UID:17542 Activity:nil 53%like:16541
2/17    Octane Software is hiring, more details at /csua/pub/jobs/Octane
2000/2/17-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:17538 Activity:nil 57%like:18115
2/17    Position available at Abeona, see /csua/pub/jobs/Abeona for details
2000/2/17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:17530 Activity:high
2/16    What are good ways to judge whether a candidate would work well
        for your company or not?  Technical questions/expertise?  Initiative?
        Communication skills?  Getting along with coworkers?
        \_ How can you tell by the ring whether a woman is taken or not?
        \_ technical skills, and co-worker integration.
           The others can tell you whether they like him.
           Hire someone who HAS A CLUE (obviously not yourself) to evaluate
           their technical skills.
                \_ nobody said the original poster was hiring.  Probably
                   just curious how others evaluate.
                   \_ that does not jibe with the wording of the question.
                      And dont delete my reply, schmuck.
                \_ I think that one's ability to communicate during an
                   interview is *very* important. Throw a tough technical
                   question at the interviewee, not to see if they can get
                   the perfect answer, but to make sure that they understand
                   complex questions etc... After that: personality & tech.
2000/2/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:17525 Activity:nil
2/15    What's a good avg salary for a Senior S/W  Engineer (90-95)K ?
        \_ Define "Senior"
          \_ Senior Paco quiere Tacos!
          \_ It mostly consists of the label.
                \_ Don't dismiss labels and titles so readily.
        \_ Yes, if "Senior" means ~5 years experience at your company.
                                  \_ Se~nor Paco quiere Tacos!
2000/2/16 [Recreation/Humor, Industry/Jobs] UID:17521 Activity:insanely high
2/16    I plan to add another question to my standard technical interview
        list but I want to try it out here first to see what kind of answers
        the Motd Wisdom comes up with first.  Please be my test subjects.
        The new question: What is the running time of the troll sort?
        \_ "motd wisdom"? please tell us what company you hire for, so
            we may avoid it.
           \_ Please let me know what company you work for,
                 so I can avoid it's stock.
              \_ ObGrammar:    ^its
        The new question: What is the running time of the troll sort?
           \_ Please let us all know who you are so we can know who has zero
              sense of humor.  IT WAS A JOKE!  The sort of joke intended to
              bring a tiny uplift of the lip, a slight grin, a tiny moment of
              slight humor to brighten your dismal life in a small way and
              YOU DIDN'T GET IT!  You're officially beyond hope.  Please kill
              yourself now and stop wasting oxygen.
              \_ If it's a joke, it's not very funny.
2000/2/15 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:17518 Activity:nil
2/14    What is a typical salary range for a unix system administrator
        (Linux and Solaris) with 2 years experience but doesn't want
        to work in south bay?
2000/2/3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:17425 Activity:very high
2/3     CSUA Engineer Job Title poll:
           \_ Current or previous jobs?
        1       CTO
                \_ heh. kinney gave me the title, tho somehow i don't think
                it means what he thinks it means - paolo
        0       VP Eng
        0       Architect
        1       Sr Software Eng
        1       Software Eng
                \_ someone removed my 1!
                   \_ no, mine!
        2       Various Sysadmin
        0       Random Title
        1       Herder of Cats
        1       Member of Tech Staff
                \_ What exactly is an MTS (Member of Tech Staff)
                        \_ Whatever you want it to be - here it includes
                           programmers, sys admins, release engineers, etc.
        2       Tech Support Engineer
        1       Gopher
        1       Programmer/Analyst (go UC employees!)
                \_ Slaves to the Man.  Half the pay for 3/4ths the work.
        1       Blowjob boy
        1       Pascal Princess
        1       Web monkey
2000/2/3-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:17418 Activity:nil
2/2     Inktomi is coming (back) to Berkeley.  We will be at
        Brewed Awakening (1807 Euclid) on Thursday, February 3rd, from 4 PM to
        7 PM.  Drop by and speak with a hiring manager about a possible job
        internship with Inktomi.
        More info in /csua/pub/jobs/Inktomi.new
        -kube
2000/2/2-3 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/TJB] UID:17408 Activity:very high
2/2     So just wondering if anyone has ever actually met a tjb style moron
        at work (industry, academia, anywhere).  Do these sorts of fools ever
        really get hired anywhere that does personal interviews?  I've been
        working for 7+ years at various places and have yet to meet anyone
        like that who survived a first round interview no matter how good
        their resume looked to HR.
        \_ In response to everything below, I was really wondering about
           getting past the first personal interview, not the reference
           check.  I'd give the guy a huge thumbs down in the first 5 minutes.
           Reference checks are bullshit for numerous reasons. -original poster
        \_ Yes.
          \_ while I haven't met anyone like that in a professional environment
             I can't believe they'd have any trouble gettin a job.  The job
             market right now is soo worker-starved that just about any chump
             can get a job.  Sure they might have to only choose between 3 or
             4 offers after a week or two of searching, but they'll still
             get them.
             \_ Silicon Valley is a very small place.  People talk.  If you
                have a bad reputation, word gets around fast.  My former boss
                was one such person.  He has had 6-7 jobs in the last two
                years.  He is having to go to a different industry, that's
                how fast word gets around.  Remember one thing:  don't burn
                your bridges; leave on good terms.
                \_ Please.  Silicon Valley is a *huge* place -- are you trying
                   to assert that the multi-billion-dollar complex of software
                   and hardware companies in the Valley somehow consitute an
                   intimate little "everybody knows everybody" kaffesklatch?
                   Your boss isn't getting rehired because he has obvious
                   resume problems (even if he wasn't obviously defective,
                   would you hire someone who's had 6 jobs in 2 years if you
                   were looking for a long-termer?), not because the word's
                   gone out through the grapevine.  Some references may even
                   candy-coat a tjb-style fuckup, because they don't want to
                   get sued for saying something defaming, or because they're
                   the idiot's current co-workers and they want to get rid of
                   him.  And even if your name is mud in Silicon Valley, the
                   industry doesn't stop once you leave the Bay Area; just
                   move to somewhere new.
                   \_ You're on the shitlist, too -- nobody who's *anybody*
                      is talking to you!  (Somebody told me that yesterday.)
                      That's how come you don't know the way it really is.
                   \_ This is funny.  You obviously haven't worked here
                      long here.  By "going to a different industry" I mean
                      going from say network hardware to semiconductor.  Yeah
                      shitty people can always get jobs, they just won't get
                      jobs with good people who has been around and keep a
                      very long shitlist.  I've been for 4 years and
                      I already have a list of people in my mind that I want
                      to avoid like a plague.
                      \_  Just off the top of my head, Andy Bechtolsheim and
                          Dave Ditzel.  Yep, famously obnoxious and annoying
                          people must have trouble getting hired in the Valley.
                          The answer is, if you are bright enough, you will
                          get the job, no matter how evil you are.  Sometimes
                          you have to be pretty f*cking bright though.
                      \_ I think that you're confusing reality with your own
                         megalomaniac visions: "Ha ha!  When *I* am the one
                         in control, *he'll* never work in *this* town again!
                         Muahahahaha!"
2000/1/26-2/3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:17336 Activity:nil
12/26   CS 186 (Database System) needs a reader.  Contact Sirish
        Chandrasekaran, sirish@cs.berkeley.edu if interested.  This is a great
        opportunity to make some money, and a worthwhile experience if you
        would like to TA any CS classes in the future.
2000/1/22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:17291 Activity:nil
1/21    Can anyone provide some info (i.e., demand in market, salaries,
        future prospect, etc.) on Design, Product, and Application
        Engineering?
        \_ There's no future in it.  One word: Plastics.
1999/12/18-21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:17068 Activity:high
12/18   Could i get some people's comments about working at Taos Mountain?
        thanks.
           \_ Why do they have the bad rep? Is it only because of the
              fact they act like some employment agency? (How much do
              they get paid for you?) Or is it because you dont learn
              anything? Does it look bad on the resume to leave soon?
                \_ You'll probably get somewhere in the range of 30%-40%
                   of what they're paid for you.
                \_ They're a contract agency.  Contract agents and head
                   hunters aren't bad people, they're just primarily
                   interested in earning a living;  like in any job situation,
                   the other guy will consider his interests before yours.
                   Act accordingly.  -John
                   \_ Taos takes about 45 cents on the billing hour, after
                      they pay your FICA and benefits.  For some contracts
                      that's probably higher.  This is probably ok for a
                      jr/mid grade SA.  The norm for staying there is about
                      2 years, but it won't look bad or good if you leave
                      sooner.  They're just an agency. Always remember that
                      you're a contractor, not really an employee.  -jor
                   \_ Exactly.  And they don't have a bad rep, per se.  They
                      just don't have your interests at heart.  You have to
                      fully understand and appreciate this before going there.
                      I have never held short time contracting against someone
                      when considering a new hire.  YMMV but I think it's ok.
        \_ giving the above poster/baiter the benefit of the doubt:
           i would rather comment privately -- it has its pros and cons.
           email me, i used to be a recruiter there. --chris
           \_ Are you the same person quoted in the sfgate article?
        \_ She'll just try to recruit you to some lame job.  Don't email her.
           In public: Taos is ok if you have zero job experience and need to
           put something on your resume fast but don't stay more than 3 months
           or 6 on the way outside or you're missing out on real jobs that will
           be much better for you in the long run.  Taos keeps getting paid
           more for you with each contract but you don't see any of it.  Pity
           the fool who stayed at Taos long enough to get the lamer jacket
           (one full year).  Use them like they intend to use you then leave.
           If you already have job experience there's nothing they can offer
           you, don't waste your time on them.
           \_ Why do they have the bad rep? Is it just because of the
           \_ Don't flatter yourself, dear anonymous poster.  I would rather
              just talk "offline" about Taos.  It's good, and it's bad.  I have
              anything? Does it look bad on the resume?
              my personal opinions, and I would rather not air them in public.
              If you're an intermediate SysAdmin, it is a great way
              to build a career for yourself, any more detailed info, ask me
              yourself.  --chris
                \_ If you're a beginner SysAdmin it is an ok way to start a
                   career.  As far as flattery, how many recruiters such as
                   yourself are really careful about who they're willing to
                   try to place?  "Oh, I don't think I'll make $20k+ from
                   trying to place you.  You don't meet my high standards."
                   Get real.  Any recruiter such as yourself would place any
                   warm (or cold) body anywhere they could make a fast buck.
           \_ Why do they have the bad rep? Is it only because of the
              fact they act like some employment agency? (How much do
              they get paid for you?) Or is it because you dont learn
              anything? Does it look bad on the resume to leave soon?
                \_ They're a contract agency.  Contract agents and head
                   hunters aren't bad people, they're just primarily
                   interested in earning a living;  like in any job situation,
                   the other guy will consider his interests before yours.
                   Act accordingly.  -John
                   \_ Exactly.  And they don't have a bad rep, per se.  They
                      just don't have your interests at heart.  You have to
                      fully understand and appreciate this before going there.
                      I have never held short time contracting against someone
                      when considering a new hire.  YMMV but I think it's ok.
1999/12/1-2 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16986 Activity:very high
12/1    What's the best site for salary information in Silicon Valley?
        You hear all these people getting mega bucks, but seeing the real
        average (including UCB EECS/CS salary information) would be nice.
        \_ Useful Answers under this subheading
                \_ There aren't any is the sad truth.  Salaries are random.
        \_ Useless Answers under this subheading, babe
                \_ So if I want to hire a website, it costs 80k?  babe?
                \_ $80k, babe.
                   \_ for what?
                      \_ for a website babe
                        \_ So if I want to hire a website, it costs 80k?
                           babe?
                           \_ no you idiot. "website babes" get paid 80k.
                                \_ your website babe is underpaid.
                                   \_ she doesn't do anal
                       \_ there are babes in this field?  Where?
                          \_ http://www.whitehouse.com
                \_ It's not 80k average for anything.
1999/11/19-20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16919 Activity:moderate
11/18   In this day and age, is it really worth getting a Masters in C.S.?
        Esp. those with experience already.
        \_ Yes and no.  There are pros and cons
           \_ Well put.
           \_ Do you want to wave that degree around like some big dick, or
              just use the time to get more experience and $$$ ?
              \_ why, to wave it around like some big dick of course!  What
                 else would you use it for?  I'm sure the paper it's printed
                 on is probably too coarse for use as toilet paper....
1999/11/16-17 [Computer/SW/Mail, Industry/Jobs] UID:16902 Activity:moderate
11/16   Software co-op positions available at Siebel Systems in
        Emeryville for January-June 2000.  If interested, send resume or
        questions to me at echao@siebel.com. -chaos
        \_ Siebel?  Weren't you doing sendmail?
           \_ Wrong Asian chick, you bonehead.
                \_ They all look the same to me.  Had one asian chick,
                   had em all.
           \_ didn't take long to do sendmail; small company.
1999/11/14-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16878 Activity:nil
11/12   /csua/pub/jobs/Thirdvoice.  All sorts of stuff.  Not all of it is
        technical.  Not all of it requires 5 decades of experience.  Something
        for everyone.  Mail me with questions.  Job location is Redwood City.
        -reiffin
        \_ is thirdvoice more or less doomed than apple?
           \_ Seen Apple's stock anytime in the last year?  If Thirdvoice does
              half as well, none of us will have anything to complain about.
           \_ You're a M$oft employee?  I'd rather be at a startup.
        \_ What happened to all the hullabaloo about ThirdVoice, all the
           webmasters bitching about violated content ownership rights?  Did
           that just kind of die off?  -John
                \_ Go to <DEAD>saynotothirdvoice.com<DEAD> to see for yourself.  They're an
                   unfunded volunteer group.  The bulk of the members are on
                   free geocities and tripod accounts, if you call that being
                   a webmaster....  They were good to get us some good press
                   and are otherwise completely meaningless.
1999/11/3-4 [Recreation/Food, Industry/Jobs] UID:16822 Activity:kinda low
11/3    Our group is interviewing a person on Friday, and I got stuck with
        taking the guy out to lunch. What do you ask during lunch? Do I
        avoid technical questions? What's the traditional approach?
        \_ I would talk about whatever he wants to talk about: remember,
           the point is to get to know him.  If he's a technical person,
           he will probably end up talking about technical stuff anyway.
        \_ Try to make it clear how much you dread social interaction with him
        \_ I used to take candidates to this Moroccan/belly-dancing place,
           and I'd pay off the belly-dancer to get her to embarrass the guy.
           \_ Sounds like an excellent use of money.  Keep up the good work.
        \_ Don't forget to make the guy pay for both meals and any drinks.
1999/10/5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16665 Activity:nil
        2-3 years of working experience by UC? (BA degree from all UCs)
        \_ You can't.  There's no such thing.  You get what you negotiate for.
           Average salaries are a hiring manager and HR scam.  -hiring mgr
1999/10/5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16664 Activity:nil
10/4    Where can I find the average salary for a Software engineer who has
1999/9/30-10/2 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16632 Activity:kinda low
9/30    Job openings at Siebel in Internationalization and Localization.
        See /csua/pub/jobs/Siebel/l10n and i18n. -chaos
        \_ I have complete mastery of English.  Any open jobs for me?
        \_ I two have mystery of English.  I want job! Give me H1b sponsorship;
           I work for cheap.
1999/9/29-30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16622 Activity:high
9/27    Oracle hired me 9 months ago as a developer. But all I have been
        doing since then: moving computer, installing latest shiphome
        RDBMS, run test cases, release management, and debugging. I get
        paid extremely well, but I feel very guilty for not doing
        any technical work. I think my co-workers are in the same shoes.
        Is this common in database companies?
        \_ Why do you feel guilty?  I would just feel like an idiot.  idiot.
        \_ SOOOO MANY BAD MEMORIES.  Please don't remind me.  I didn't feel
           guulty.  Just bored out of my mind.  I quit and ran away.
           Never saw my boss again.
                        \_ but what about our LOVECHILD??
        \_Poor baby. How can they do that to you. Paying you "extremely
          well" to sit around and jack off? Serious though, why feel
          guilty for the fact that you have an easy job when you should be
          worried that you ain't gaining any real knowledge/experience
          which you need to get a new job when the suits figure out that
          they can just hire 2.7 lab monkeys (give or tack .3 monkey) to
          do your work and pay them in peanuts.
          \_ Totally.  If you're not learning then you're selling your future
             for an easy job now.  Actually your job doesn't sound easy, just
             dull.  Quit or ask for something real to do.  You're withering.
        \_Maybe you think you are being paid well.  You are actually doing IT,
        QA, and whole bunch crap.  They ought to pay you well.  How much?  On
        Average, a 2 year develope should be paid 65k?  (correct me on that)
                        \_ Not in the Valley in this job market.
                           \_ 65k? thats like entry level!
                                \_ are you for realz? every 2 year software
                                   engineer's getting 80k?
                                        \_ No, please learn what "average"
                                           means.  Many make more, many make
                                           less.
                                           \_ That's not what "average"
                                              means at all...
                                                \_ The point was "average"
                                                   != "every".  The second
                                                   sentence is a seperate
                                                   statement.
        \_ You guys are missing the point. I'm suppose to be a
             DEVELOPER. Why am I doing QA, debugging, and all that
             crap? I am not complaining about my salary. I am
             merely asking whether the word "developer" at one company
             means differently than another company.
             \_ a developer working in QA is the sign of a good QA
                department. Yes, this is an appropriate place for
                a "developer". If you dont have smart people in QA,
                you end up being microsoft.
                \_ Maybe so, but do *you* want to be the schmuck in QA?
             \_ We didn't all miss the point.  A few people did say that
                   if you feel like you're wasting your time, move on.  You
                   missed the point.
           \_ So, are you feeling cheated or something?  Before you took the
              job, what did Oracle tell you your job description and duties
              would be?  Or did they just say, "you'll be a developer, sign
              here", and you just said "okay"?  Title means nothing: I have
              a friend working at IBM whose business cards say "Software
              Engineer", even though she's a *technical writer* who started
              her first programming class *ever* this week.
1999/9/9-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16495 Activity:low
9/9     Anybody tried posting their resumes on http://monster.com?  I did that and I
        only got calls from headhunters, NONE from employers so far.  I took
        it out because of that.  Anybody had similar experiences?
        \_ Too late.  You're already in a dozen+ resume databases.  You'll be
           getting headhunter calls and email until you change your # and
           email address.  And no, places like that are hunter hangouts.  The
           employers are not looking at resumes there or anywhere else that
           isn't put on their desk.
        \_ I know plenty of employers who troll http://Monster.com...several of my
           friends have gotten direct jobs from Monster, but you do have to
           withstand a whole bunch of headhunter trolls.  If you want to avoid
           headhunters, I'd suggest http://hotjobs.com.  Hotjobs does not allow
           headhunters to subscribe to their resume database (only direct
           employers).  It may be too late though -- you've probably been
           scanned into a kazillion databases (I still get calls from a resume
           I posted years ago). --chris
1999/8/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16319 Activity:high
8/16    I'm sick of engineering and I'm interested in becoming a public school
        teacher.  Anybody know of a part-time program where you can get
        accredited?  I can't quit my day job just yet.  Any pointers to web
        sites and/or program names is greatly appreciated.
        \_ If you try private school first you will have better an easier
           time, both with the class size, and the handling of the students.
           And you don't need to have a teaching credential to teach at a
           private school.  After that, if you still like it, you can move
           on to the big money of public school.
           \_ Wait, private schools doesn't require credentials?  Anybody
              can walk in and apply?  That's a suprise to me.  And I'm not
                \_ Why should it be a surprise.  Just because anyone can apply
                   doesn't mean they'll hire idiots, just that they can hire
                   a teacher for math or science that doesn't have to know
                   the California history required to get the CBEST credential.
                   \_ There's no history section on the CBEST.  For reasons
                      best left unmentioned, I tried out the sample test a few
        \_ Many public schools are hiring people without credentials under
           an emergency waiver and then giving them a year to get their
           credentials. You have to take the CBEST and get emergency
           credentials.
                      weeks ago and any idiot with a 5th grade education should
                      be able to pass it easily.  The test was a huge joke and
                      anyone who can't pass it the first time has no business
                      trying to teach kids.  They're an idiot.  I took harder
                      tests in grade school.  And yes, anyone can walk in and
                      get hired to work at a private school.  Private schools
                      also pay a lot less than public schools.
              going after the "big money" in public schools.  My EECS degree
              is already making me big money.
        \_ Many public schools are hiring people without credentials
           under an emergency waiver and then giving them awhile to get
           accredited. You have to take the CBEST and get emergency
           credentials, which are issued by the school, not the state.
           If you want to work full-time and take classes towards your
           credential, almost any csu will allow that.
1999/8/13-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16309 Activity:low
8/13    Help, I think my new manager is bored. He keeps coming to my cube,
        asks me how to do this and that (it is not like he is ever going to
        apply any technical skill he learns from me), trys to go through
        the development process with me (and creates shit for me to clean
        up). How do I make him stop?
        \_ I think he probably misses being a developer and/or is bored.
        \_ Is this at Administrative Computing?
                \_ NO COMMENT
        \_ Gun.
        \_ turn off the -i (interactive) flag in the inetd.conf
1999/8/11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:16290 Activity:moderate
8/10    The thread below brings up an interesting question for me. I've
        been out long enough now to see several folks' resumes. I see a
        pattern of a couple of years' spin-up through stuff like QA,
        benchmark programming and sysadmin jobs before people hit
        "real" developing jobs. Leaving aside the matter of wunderkids,
        do people find this pattern consistent with their experience
        after graduation? -ulysses
        \_ Why is developing considered more 'real' than sysad?  I get paid
           more than most developers and work less for it, mostly.  -sysad
1999/6/21-23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15998 Activity:moderate 55%like:15986
6/21    Unix sysadmin position available at http://Yodlee.Com in Sunnyvale.
        See /csua/pub/jobs/Yodlee for details. -cdaveb (reposted)
        \_ There's only one thing you have to know about being a sysadmin:
           echo 'root: "/dev/null"' >! /etc/aliases; sendmail -bi
        \_ are there any senior-level development position open?
           \_ I don't know but I'll check.
           \_ We do but nobody's been able to survive the interview.
              E-mail resume to mch@interwoven.com if you're any good.
                \_who cares?you're just another "me too" company.-ex-candidate
        \_ Is the senior interview one of those "I have a list of 25 obscure
           technical questions that a real person would never memorise because
           they have man pages, but since I can't interview for real, I'm
           using obscurity as a mis-measure of competence"?  If so, then
           "ex-candidate" shouldn't be too bitter about it.  A company that
           doesn't know how to interview is going to fill slots with morons
           you don't want to work with.  Be glad you got turned down if this
           is the case.
                \_ case in point: cdaveb.
           Of course, if "ex-candidate" was truly unqualified,
           then hey, you just suck.  hah!
           \_ hee hee, I still remember "What is a 404?" at http://findlaw.com.
              (not obscure technical but funny) It still makes me think
              I'll get to an interview with "Are you 1337?"
                \_ You told them, "that's what you'd have to pay me per hour
                   to work here!", right?
           \_ Dude, if I'm in an interview and they try to pull that "are
              you elite??!?" shit on me, I just pull out the VIC-20 I brought
              along with me, splice an RS-232-to-120-volt-electrical-plug
              cable right before their eyes, and proceed to hack into their
              "elite" firewall on the spot, using their building's electrical
              system for a network.  Then I spit on them as I walk out the
              door on my way out.
        \_ !Yodlee go Taos!
1999/5/19-22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15836 Activity:nil
5/19    Web Development Internship opportunity at Siebel.
        Email shsieh@siebel.com for more details.
1999/5/19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:15835 Activity:nil
5/19    Jobs at Siebel. Please send your resumes to jeyu@siebel.com.
        [please do not post long job descriptions.  put them in /csua/pub/jobs]
1999/5/18-19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15834 Activity:nil 53%like:15810
5/17    Internship opportunity at Ciena/Lightera.  See /csua/pub/jobs/ciena.
1999/5/17-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:15823 Activity:nil 61%like:15810
5/17    MUD Interns: /csua/pub/jobs/Skotos
        \_ muaaahhwwwhhhaahahaahhooooahhhh!!!!!!1!!1!!!7!
1999/5/14-16 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Jobs] UID:15809 Activity:very high
5/15    i am a sysadmin at a startup, and my female boss tells me
        if i give her sexual favors she will increase my salary from
        120k to 150k plus options(she is the ceo). i dont know what to do
        she is really hot, but married. please help.
        \_ Obviously it's a lie.
        \_ ask her for a 3 way with her husband -- it's ok if her husband
           is involved.
        \_ Yeah right!  As if anything that great could ever happen to a
           Cal geek....
        \_ So sue for sexual harassment and take 10 years of salary to
           the bank.
           \_ My NT sysadmin makes more money than that.
        \_ Oh come on.  This is such an obvious troll, although congratulations
           for ensnaring the few people above who are too stupid to see the
           blatant troll for what it is.  Come on people, wake up.
           \_ i predict that your comment will have no effect and the blathering
              will continue until deleted. -thetroller
                \_ I'm sure you're right.  It's just somewhat surprising
                   anyone could read that and believe it and reply in even a
                   semi-serious way.  Even our discussion of the trollish
                   nature is unlikely to prevent others from adding to it or
                   stop them from thoughtless replies re: future trolls.
                   \_ huh. i guess we both underestimated the inteligence of
                      the flame wariors(hard to do). apparently making direct
                      reference to the troll nature of a post repeatedly and
                      admitting you were the one responsible for the post is
                      enough to shut them up.  worth remembering this...
                                  -thetroller
                        \_ Guess so.  I'm quite amazed, but yes it's worth
                           remembering and far more effective than the
                           typical "troll deleted" replacement.
        \_ I'm a petite young asian fantasy dreamboat 36-21-36, and
           my cs61A TA wants to cum in my face for an A on the final exam.
           what should I do?
           \_ Take drugs.
1999/5/5 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Jobs] UID:15754 Activity:nil
5/5     new to linux.  any recommendation for reference books for developers?
        \_ Linux Application Development is supposed to be good.
1999/4/28 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:15719 Activity:nil
4/28    Has anyone here worked for HP? Intern or full-time? How was it?
        \_Both, what do you want to know? It's obviously very dependent
        on where you work and what you do. It's a big company. I guess I
        work for the company formerly known as HP now...
        \_ Parts of HP is pretty cush.  I thought were the printer guys
           were pretty annoying, but that was an impression from several
           years ago.
           \_ guess that's cause they have a thing for lawnmowers...
1999/4/27-5/1 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:15699 Activity:nil
4/19    Know of a growing startup that would like to recruit at Cal, but
        can't afford to pay the ILP $1000-$7500?  Tell them to join the CSUA
        Startup Jobs Fair.  More info:  <DEAD>www.csua/startup.html<DEAD>
1999/4/2-5 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Industry/Jobs] UID:15687 Activity:very high 50%like:15685
4/1     Informal Soda Salary Survey.  Please join in.
        \_ Do you want the nominal or real hourly rate?
           (i.e. no over-time, work 60 hours a week).
                \_ If you're on a salary, put that down, not including
                   options, etc.  If you're a contractor, put down what
                   you get per hour.  The amount you work is assumed
                   to be ~40 hours per week.  If it isn't, put a note
                   that you work >> 40.

        Title                   Years Experience        Salary/Hourly rate
Hrs/wk  Title                   Years Experience        Salary/Hourly rate
        English Majorz          3                       $6/hr + food (sometimez!)
        CEO of MSFT             ~20 years               Let's see I own 1b
                                                        shares of MSFT.  The
                                                        stock moved up $3
                                                        yesterday, which means
                                                        I made $3b yesterday.
                                                        That works out to be
                                                        $375 million per hour
                                                        (8 hr a day).  Or about
                                                        $6.25 million a minute
        CAD Engineer            1.5                     $53K/yr + stocks + opt
                                                        or about $100K a
                                                        second.  More than
                                                        what any of you and
                                                        any of your descendants
                                                        will make for the
                                                        next 1000 years.
                                                                -billg
                                                        shares of MSFT.
                                                        \_ not including
                                                           options, etc.
                                                           [deletia]

        Drug Dealer             High School + 2 ys      $250k/yr + marijuana
                                                        option.some occupational
        Sr. System Admin        4 + EECS/C              $97k/yr + bonus +
                                                           weak options
                                                        hazards.
60      IT everything guy #2    3                       $36k/yr + pain
        Sysadmin                BS from UCB + 0 yrs     $65k/yr
        IEEE engineer @SunMicro MS from Stanford        $62K /yr starting
        Student Intern @Sun     0, no degree            $48k/yr
                                \_ makes that stanford MS look pretty worthless
        English Majorz          3                       $6/hr + food(sometimez!)
                \_ go away tpc you're not funny.
        English Major:          2 50-60 hours/week      $50k/yr + stocks
        English Major           4                       $85K/yr + great stocks
        Gradushit student       4.5 (shit!)             $15k/yr (shit**2!!)
                 \_ oh, and yes, >>40 hours/week
        Sr. Solaris Admin       7                       $80/hr
        Sr. System Admin        6                       $85k/yr + uberstock
        Sr. System Admin        3                       $83k+stock+ann. bonus
        DBA                     5                       $102k/yr + stocks
        TAOS Whore              5                       $90k/yr + "SAR's"
        Another Taos Whore      4 + EECS/C              $97k/yr + overtime +
                                                         weak options ("SARs")
        TAOS Bitch              5                       $125K/yr + 5K bonus +
                                                        "SAR's" + overtime
        TAOS Whore #3           2 + EECS/C              $75K/yr + S*R's +
                                                        overtime
        TAOS Assistant Crack Ho on Move Team    0       $18/hour
        Software Engineer       2 + MSCS                $82K/yr + 7K options
        Software Engineer       ~1 + EECS               $68K/yr + Great Stock
        Software Engineer       ~1 + EECS/C             $55K/yr + bonus
        Software Engineer       ~2 + EECS/C             $64K/yr + options
        Sr. C/S Engineer        4                       $75K/yr + stocks
        CAD Engineer            1.5                     $53K/yr + bonus
                                                        + stocks + opt
        Bitch of The Man        All my life             free + no beating
                                                        before dinner, if I'm
                                                        lucky
        web front end grunt     4+                      $55k + $1.4m in stocks
        Web Developer (Taos)    1 + EECS/C              $80K/yr
        \_ caught them in a frenzy of desperation
        Microsoft Janitor       1                       $90K/yr + super stocks
        Beggar outside M$       2                       50cents/min + see Gates
                \_ not quite as good as Gate$ who makes > $550/sec
                   \_ But at least the beggar gets some.
        Software Engineer       2+                      $75K/yr + Great Stock
        Mathematician           3                       $58K/yr + stock
                                                        (not bay area)
        Sr. Engineer (software) 7 (including co-op)     $80K/yr + stocks
        \_ Sheeeeeit, I'm making too little.
        Student Intern          0                       $48k/yr, but no benefits
        Start Your Own Company  2                       -$150K/yr
        consultant              4                       $70/hr
        IT everything guy       2                       $70k/yr + stocks
        IT everything guy #2    3                       $36k/yr + pain
        all my friends who work on crab boats(HS dropouts) $60-$120k/yr
        Husband                 2                       -$30k/yr - freedom
                \_ only if you marry lame - my wife is +$70k/yr
        Consultant (software)   3                       $88k/yr + bonus
        Consultant (hardware)   10                      $150/hr
        Sys Admin (econ degree) 1(real)5(resume)        $47/yr +tinystock
                                        \_ On behalf of honest peoople
                                           everywhere, fuck you.  --sowings
                                           \_ well hey at least he's not
                                              making that much...
                                           \_ diff could be grad school
                                           \_ based on what he's making, they
                                              don't believe his resume either
                                          \_ gotta remember if its a gov't
                                              job (i.e. UC) the benefits are
                                              great and the hours are like
                                              half time.
                                              \_It's not, and they never
                                                looked at my resume which
                                                I will soon be sending out
                                                because, it is low $'s.
                                                because, it is low $.
                                                \_ How do you know your resume
                                                   wasn't looked at? And why'd
                                                   you lie in the first place?
        Jr Sys Admin            2                       $46k + options
        Software Engineer       10                      $55k + bonus + options
1999/4/2 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15685 Activity:nil 50%like:15687
4/1     Informal Soda Salary Survey.  Please join in.

        Title                   Years Experience        Salary/Hourly rate
        Sr. Solaris Admin       7                       $80/hr
1999/2/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15424 Activity:high
2/16    What's  good non-BS-sounding response to an employer's "tell me
        about yourself" type question?
        \- I have a gun.
        \_ uh, telling him about yourself?  -tom
        \_ It's not a trick question.  Just give a quick, non-boring
           bio of yourself, and if you can, make it relevant to the job you
           are applying for.  -ax
        \_ I was on campus on friday recruiting and interviewing.  My
           suggestion for you is to have a better attitude about the process.
           It's not a B.S. question.  It's a way of figuring out if a
           candidate can speak fluent english and communicate.  I would care
           less if you kicked ass in all of hilfinger's projects or that
           you can code 5000 lines a day.  If you have no social skills,
           cannot work in a team, cannot communicate your ideas, cannot speak
           fluent english, I will not hire you.  Period.  It's that simple.
           I don't hire assholes with high IQs.  You would drag the whole
           team down with your attitude.  I would rather hire somebody who
           is not as smart but works hard and is a team player.  Not afraid to
           seek help and not snobbish about offering help.
           \_ Darn, then you would really heir me. what's the job description?
           \_ From my experience, this is pretty much true. The interviews
              I've gone through where you go through 4-5 people, at least
              one person does almost exclusively non-technical stuff, such
              as your hobbies, how you handle conflict, and finding out
              your demeanor.
              \_ can you retype this last sentance so that the first bit
                 actually merges into the last bit and makes sense?
           \_ IMHO:  That's a really poor question to ask in terms of
              provoking answers that will realistically determine
              interpersonal/cultural fit at an organization.  "Tell me about
              yourself" is just about the most general, vague question to ask,
              and any effective interviewer will know that vague questions
              you resolved it" or "Give me an example of..."  I think the issue
              at hand is more that the question itself is generic rather than
              about the candidate being a "non-team player."  And you should
              sign your name. --chris
              generate vague answers.  Better than that is to ask something
              behavior-based or like "Tell me about a time when...and how
              you resolved it" or "Give me an example of..."  The question
              _is_ a BS question...and the issue is not about the candidate
              not being a team player, which you have just naturally assumed
              as a recruiter.  And you should sign your name.  --chris
              \_ Am I the only one on the fucking motd that is getting a little
                 tired of chris's "How to be a corporate stooge" lectures.
                 Well, that's MYHO, anyway.
                \_ Pretty much.  I like the how-to-stooge lessons.
1999/2/10-11 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:15394 Activity:nil
2/9     If an X application doesn't have the -ncols option, how do I limit
        the number of colors for it? Can I do something like
        /usr/local/bin/setcolor +35 <application that takes up a lot of color>
1999/2/10-11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15386 Activity:high
2/9     Job at VA Research doing Linux support -- email me for more info.
        This is, of course, via Taos. email me at christine@taos.com ...to
        start ASAP!  --chris
        \_ VA as in Veteran's Association in Martinez? Or a different VA?
        \_ DIFFERENT VA -- VA as in Linux, in Mountain View. --chris
           \_ http://www.varesearch.com -- the initials are those of the last
              names of the original founders, one of whom is Larry M.
              Augustin. -- schoen
        \_ CHRISTINE: Give me one good reason why I should quit my 6 digit $,
           full time job that I love, with full benefits like health, stock,
           etc, for a Taos contracting job ? (btw, contracting by nature is
           full of people who love $ and come and go quickly)
                \_ Taos may pay less than other contracting companies, but they
                   give lots more benefits.  -- former taos slave
                   \_ and they also treat you like scum
                \_ To quote Jesus: "The well don't need healing."
                   And is that six figures on salary, or six figures including
                   bonuses, options, etc?  -ax
                   \_ six figures including the two zeros after the decimal

           \_ I just want to know the best path to a 6 digit full-time job.
           \_ I just want to know the best path to a 6 digit part-time job.
                      point.
           \_ Taos doesn't want you.  Taos feeds on clueless newbie students
                who it lures into dropping out of school to make $20/hour
                + minimal benefits, and who it can sap the life out of for
                a year or two and then spit out their chewed up bodies.
                \_ but you're not bitter. - tpc
                        \_ What's wrong with being bitter if you got used?
           \_ If you want to confront me about it, call me or email me.
              Some of you have correct info, some of you don't, and I don't
              want to discuss it on the motd.  Taos hires people to be
              salaried staff consultants, and who said Taos doesn't pay
              six digits??  And I never asked you to quit a job, I merely
              posted an opportunity.  If you're happy where you are, then by
              all means, STAY there.  --chris
              all means, STAY there.  And sign your name. --chris
1999/1/27-31 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:15304 Activity:moderate
1/26    Solaris System admin job available in Palo Alto.  3 years exp.
        One year contract; $50 /hr -- or $60/hr for independent.
        Email me for more info.
                                                - ivy
        \_ Dude, Contactor makes that much of money? It's almost 100k.
                -bkong
           \_ Gee, I was just thinking that $60/hr is pretty pathetic.
        \_ My company bills other people $150/hr to borrow me.. 2-3x is
           pretty standard for contracting rates.. that's about the markup
           factor Taos uses, too..
           \_ Contractor = no benefits.  Cash only.  Pay your own taxes and
              what would normally be your emplyer's share, etc.  $60/hr as
              an indep. contractor is a slave wage.
                \_ So what hourly pay as an independent contractor would
                   be equal to $50 as an employee?
                   \_ I've always heard $10/hour for every $10000 you'd
                      make as an employee. So, about $104/hour. I've never
                      been such a contractor, though. It's just a rule of
                      thumb I've seen bandied about. --dim
                        \_ I was going to say "about $100/hr".  It's up there.
                           There's tons of costs involved that you don't have
                           to cover as a real employee.
                   \_ Hard to say...but most "clued" UNIX SAs demand at least
                      $80/hr for independent contract positions.  $60/hr used
                      to be more "standard" about a year and a half ago. As
                      for "what is equal to $50 as an employee" -- it's hard
                      to say.  It'd be up there, past $100/hr. --chris

                   \_ I used to do $ contractor = 2x $ perm.  So that's $100/hr
                      for your $50/hr perm.  Nowadays, I'd go for 2.5x
                      or even 3x for odious things...
        \_ ivy is willing to do brainless shit work for lots o money. She's an
           industry slut.
        \_ So, ivy, what's the job they're paying peanuts for?  Do they
           understand how terrible their pay rate is?  3 yrs of Solaris goes
           for more than this.
        \_ Allright, who on Soda is actually making more than $60/hr as an SA?
           -ax
        \_ We charge more than 60, but I get 40.  --sowings
        \_ aye - based on my experiences looking about in the summer/fall,
           100/hr for a typical SSA (ie, not guru) is rather high, even
           accounting for taxes if you're 1099 (less common).  -jor
           \_ We're not debating whether it's high or not. The poster
              asked what the equivalent to $50/hour salaried would be.
              $50/hour is $104,000/year, which is also uncommon. --dim
              \_ $104K is not uncommon...but it's usually a better deal
                 to get a consistent $104K salary than to hedge your bets
                 on getting high paying contracts. --chris
                 amended: $104K salary >>> than sitting around a couple of
                 months unemployed waiting for those high paying contracts,
                 which can be few and far between.
                 \_ I doing both.  I have a $104K+ perm job, and I have a
                    half time contract on the side (paying at a 3x rate,
                    at that).
                 \_ you are misusing the phrase "hedge your bets". to
                    hedge a bet is to limit your risk by reducing your
                    potential gains --aaron

              __
             /  \
            / ..|\
           (_\  |_)
           /  \@'  MOTD Watchdog is in effect.
          /     \
      _  /  `   |
     \\/  \  | _\
      \   /_ || \\_
       \____)|_) \_)
        \_ People are throwing a lot of numbers, but I think a lot of people
           are using formulas to reach them.  Based on real actual experience
           I can tell you that someone making $75K on salary tends to get
           about $60/hr on contract, and someone making $90K-$100K on salary
           tends to get about $80/hr on contract.  As far as getting >80
           \_ if that's true, then people would be idiots to WANT to be
              contractors.
           per hour as a Solaris admin, I have no first hand knowledge
           of anyone getting that, so I would think it's somewhat rare.  -ax
        \_ You guys are forgetting about the possibility of VERY long term
           contracts.  $80 an hour is ~160K a year.  And that's a 40 hour
           a week contract, which beats the hell out of the average work
           50+ hours a week for 90K Sr. admin salary job.  - ax
           \_ You're forgetting extra taxes, insurance, and other things that
              add up.  When have you _ever_ heard of anyone getting a year
              long contract at 80/hr?  Most people don't stay on salary for
              that long at a single place.  You're making shit up.  There is
              zero possibility of a high paying long term contract as you
              describe it.
1999/1/26-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15298 Activity:high
1/26    When your manager's manager wants to have a one on one with you, is it
        better to tell him that you're ecstatic about your work (which he will
        interpret that you're happy, so need less $) or tell him that you're
        not happy about your work (which he will interpret that he needs to
        give you more raise)?
        \_The only sure fire method to get more money is leveraged
          counteroffers.  If you really want more money go do interviews
          and get higher offers elsewhere, then let them counter.
          So tell him whatever you really feel, because it's unlikely
          you will get more money as a result of this meeting.  -ax
          \_ Does this work if your company has a pretty well-established
             and pay-raise structure? My company has all these charts
             detailing how much raise I'll get based on performance and
             ranking, done twice a year.
             \_ Don't let that shit intimidate you, but be prepared to leave
                if they're really that stiff.  It's just fluff some moron
                with a 2 year degree from a community college wrote up while
                drunk one night.
        \_Yes, it still works if they want to keep you.  Whether you like your
          work or want more money are separate issues.  If you want more $
          AND like your work, tell you manager's m that you are happy with
          your work, and have been working really hard, and that you feel
          you deserve more.  If you imply you might look elsewhere because
          you're underpaid, chances are, in this industry, that will be
          enough.
        \_ It can be political and deemed "going over your manager's head"
           to reveal disgruntlement to your manager's manager...so be careful
           what you say, unless you have a pre-established (ie, you've known
           him/her longer than you know your direct supervisor)
           relationship with the person you're having lunch with.  --chris
        \_ Stop complaining you computer nerd people.  Go catch more bugs.
           \_ Haahhahahhahahhahhahhaha!!! Some trolls are worth keeping around
              like cute little dogs you throw marshmellows at for fun!
        \_ It could mean he/she is interested in you in a romantic way.
                \_ Oh shut the fuck up you clueless twink!  It means no such
                   thing!  You've never had a job outside the campus library
                   system obviously.
                   \_ So, did he/she ask you out?
1999/1/21-24 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15264 Activity:nil
1/20    The VA Experimental Audiology Research Laboratory in Martinez is
        looking to hire a computer technician; /csua/pub/jobs/VA-tech -brg
        \_ brg needs to be sodomized
1999/1/20-23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15262 Activity:nil 50%like:14892
1/20    Great full-time job opportunities in Redwood City --
        /csua/pub/jobs/Auco
1998/12/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:15097 Activity:high
12/15   Seeking opinion: Would you choose a lower paying job w/ less
        responsibility or higher paying job w/ more responsibility (plus
        lots more stress)?  And lets say the difference in salary is $20K/yr.
        \_ I'd choose a lower paying with more responsiblity over a higher
           paying with less, but that's because I'm not a whore.
       \_  way too vague a question.  would the stressful job be enjoyable
           despite stress, or would it suck?  would the less responsibility
           job be boring?
        \_ It all depends on the person.  What do you value more?  What makes
           you a happier person?  You can have a easy job and use all the
           free time to do other things you like.  Or, you can make lots of
           money and be stressful all the time (and not have time to do other
           activities or spend the money).
        \_ Generally, the higher the salary, the more time you have to spend
           at work.
        \_ What are your goals?  Do you want to be a dude?  Take the job with
           more responsibility.  You can always wimp out later if you can't
           cope.  It's much easier to go from more to less responsibility than
           the other way around.
        \_ As others have said, you're not providing sufficient information
           about yourself or the job to lend a useful opinion.
        \_ "$20K/yr" isn't enough information.  If the choice is between $20k
           and $40k that's much different than if the choice is between $300k
           and $320k...
        \_ troll deleted. Shut up jsl                           -tom
        \_ If you can't assume the responsibility of making your own
           decision, take the lower paying job.
1998/12/4-6 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:15069 Activity:low
12/4    UNIX graveyard shift opportunity in the City -- it's a Taos
        opportunity.  Thought I'd throw this out to see if anyone wanted an
        off hours job.  For more info, email christine@taos.com or see
        /usr/local/csua/pub/jobs/TAOS --chris
        \_ you misspelled "punishment"  -tom
        \_ you misspelled "asshole"
        \_ Well, we found someone who took the position -- lots more openings
           at Taos, though (for our Santa Clara office, SF office,
           and NYC office). --chris
           \_ You have a NYC office, and not an LA office? Sheesh...
1998/11/10-11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:14938 Activity:nil 57%like:14602
11/10   Job openings at Inktomi: /usr/local/csua/pub/jobs/Inktomi
1998/11/4-8 [Industry/Jobs] UID:14898 Activity:moderate
11/3    I've heard a lot of conflicting views about intel as a workplace.
        some people told me it was a horrible place to intern/coop and some
        said it was pretty awesome.  Anyone have any experience?  I'm being
        offered a 6 month at logic verifcation (don't know what that is).
        \_ Well, I'm not sure about the details, but I imagine it means
           cranking through layout to compare against verilog-type
           information.  All I can say is that I've been at Intel for
           almost 18 months and it's great.  I'm designing and implementing
        \_ Well, I'm not sure about the details, but I imagine it mean
            - emarkp
        \_ Never work at a place where they sign their email with "Have a
           cranking through layout to compare against verilog-typ
           information.  All I can say is that I've been at Intel fo
           this should answer your questions.  -jor
        \_ I've had the same experience with hearing great/unhappy stories
           about Intel internships/full-time.  It seems that it depends
           almost 18 months and it's great.  I'm designing and implementin
        \_ When I interned back in 96, I thought it was the world's most
           uptight company that I had ever worked for. When I porn surfed, I
           CAD algorithms.  Pretty nifty stuff.  Plus I go home at 5pm
           was actually "tagged" and warned. However, the learning experience
           was great. I would definitely go back. It's an uptight company, but
           it's a wonderful uptight company.
           was great. I masturbate chronically now and would definitely
           go back. It's an uptight company, but it's a wonderful
            - emark
            - emarkp
        \_ Depends on you. Intel prides itself on being inflexible.
           Considering the high-tech field, inflexibility doesn't go over
           well with most.  But really does depend on your group. In
           general no flex time(ie 8a-12p then  1p to 5p). In my group you
           are expected to work minimum 8hrs with 9 to 10hrs being
           average(8a-7p). Pay is generally below avg. but if Intel does
           well the bonuses will more than compensate. In general, an anal
           company. For example, they search you when you leave the
           building.   summarizing, you might co-op somewhere where you'd
           want to work later.  Unless you don't mind strict policies, and
           a military like environment, Intel's probably not it. People
           only join Intel out of college... almost never from other
           companies. This speaks for itself.
           \_ I don't get it -- you don't seem to like it there, but you
             umm -- haven't quit yet?  I don't get it.  Please explain.
             \_ a lot of old-timers have stock options that make it hard
                for them to leave.
             \_ The writer probably isn't 35 yet.  Intel will make sure to
                oust him before then.
           \_learn to format at 80 columns.
        \_ Never work at a place where they sign their email with "Have
           productive day"
        \_ http://www.igc.org/faceintel
           this should answer your questions.  -jo
        \_ I've had the same experience with hearing great/unhappy storie
           about Intel internships/full-time.  It seems that it depend
           on a) your division, and b) the managing group
        \_ When I interned back in 96, I thought it was the world's mos
           uptight company that I had ever worked for. When I porn surfed,
                                                              \_ !
           was actually "tagged" and warned. However, the learning experienc
           was great. I masturbate chronically now and would definitel
           go back. It's an uptight company, but it's a wonderfu
           uptight company
1998/11/3-4 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:14892 Activity:high 52%like:14543 50%like:15262
11/3    EECS Instructional is *still* looking for a full-time staff member.
        /csua/pub/jobs/EECS-Inst-PAIII   or
           http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~iesg/jobs.html
        -brg   <--- overworked, but not underpaid.
        \_ We also have an opening for a student who can admin NT. -brg
        \_ Could be a good opportunity for all the people who whine about
        \_ We also have an opening for a student who can admin NT. -br
        \_ I tend to attribute the suck to the approximately 1:1,200
        \_ Could be a good opportunity for all the people who whine abou
           how "EECS Instructional sucks!" to do something about it
        \_ I tend to attribute the suck to the approximately 1:1,20
                \_ No way, eh.  I was a PAI....  -blojo
        \_ I tend to attribute the suck to the approximately 1:1,200
           Instructional staff-to-user ratio
           \_ I worked as a PAIII and the pay sure sucked
              \_ that you blojo?  peacock?  is that you buddy
                \_ No way, eh.  I was a PAI....  -bloj
1998/10/21-23 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:14804 Activity:nil
10/21   If I'm suppose to put job openings in /csua/pub/recruiting, then
        how will people know that I put one in there?  Is this a poll
        instead of wait for event type of messaging system (ie,
        people interested in jobs poll the directory rather than being
        told that something is available)?  -cliffwd
        \_ Both.  You may announce it concisely in /etc/motd, with something
           like:
                10/21   Interesting job hacking on vacuum tube design in
                        SF, see /csua/pub/jobs/Vacuum.  -- me
                        \_ H3Y!!!!!1!!!  1 L00K3D 1N TH3 J0BZ D1RECT0RY, AND
                           1T"Z N0T TH3R3!!!!1!!!  WHUT G1V3Z???/?  TH1Z
                           S0UNDZ L13K MY DR3AM J0B -- 1 LUV W0RK1NG W1TH
                           VACCUM TUB3Z (TH3Y"RE T0TALLY K-RAD, 1N A RETR0
                           ST3AMPUNK K1NDA WAY!!!1!!!)
1998/10/6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:14738 Activity:moderate
10/5    network guru job opening at wind river systems.
        see /csua/pub/jobs/WindRiver_Net. -jose
        \_ "network guru" = "corpo slave with minimal respect + maximum hours"
          \_ ok, "corpo slave with minimal respect...yadda, yadda" wanted
             at wind river systems.
        \_ ^network^SNMP  which, no doubt, its sheer drudgery.
1998/10/3-5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:14725 Activity:kinda low
10/2    I just go a job offer from AMD. I know they make cool chips but for
        those that have worked there what did you think?
        \_ what's the salary like?
        \_ I could've swore they were in a hiring freeze....
           \_ There's "hiring freeze", and then there's "we're not going
              to give you(the manager) any more money."
              The second is more important.
           \_ Most hiring freezes mean "no new reqs."  Dunno about the
              specific AMD case tho. --nevman
1998/9/14-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:14590 Activity:nil
09/13   Exciting full-time position at a Berkeley Internet start-up. For
        details, please see the file /csua/pub/jobs/getawayzone. If you
        have any questions, email me at bkong@soda.berkeley.edu. --bkong
        \_ Oh boy, not another one of these again.
                \_ Huh?
1998/6/10-12 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:14191 Activity:high
6/9  I need some information on starting salaries for new cs grads in
     Silicon Valley.  Anyone willing to post some numbers in the motd?
     Also if anyone knows a reliable source for this information please
     let me know.  Thanks.  -emin
     \_ 45K-75K for fresh out of college.
             \_ what kind of idiot's pay this much for new grads?
               \_ the kind that cant hire anymore furriners
                \_Foreigners are REALLY cheap and hard working. They're also
                  pretty smart. Get them while you can.     -Foreigner fetish
                  \_ Perhaps it's a Green Card issue. --jon
                  \_ and put up with more management bs...
     \_ Depends on what kind of work you're interested in, and what
        kinds of skills you have.  $45K-$75K is about correct if you
        have a college degree.  It can go lower if you don't have a college
        degree or if you have very little skills.
        \_ not terribly true.  With less than two years of college, I was
           already able to take about $50k with decent benies.  granted, i
           was a contracted sysadmin, but hey, it's cash.
     \_ i think a decent job with a decent company will start at around
        45K-50K.  the ones that pay more IMO sucked...i.e. you're working
        for a crappy company (like tandem), you're doing crap work (like
        writing freaking printer drivers), etc...but for pretty cool C++,
        java, CORBA type work that's cutting edge at a big company or a
        small but very promising company...you generally get around 45K-50K
        plus some stock options.  that's the route that i would take.
        \_ Person with MS (phd candidate) from Berkeley got 70K at my company.
           Person with BS from Berkeley got 60K although he's REALLY good.
           My company is big. 30,000 employees. I bet smaller companies pay
           even better.
        \_ How much can you expect your salary to rise in the first several
           years, provided you're doing a good to excellent job.
           \_ 13%, 32%, 44%, 15%.
           \_ I got a $10K raise from $55K to $65K after my first year
              because my company thought I did an incredible job.  I think
                \_ so how much are you making now d00d??3?
              this kind of thing is most likely at start-ups where they
              need really good engineers and the company is small enough
              for people with power to realize when engineers are worth the $.
                -wedge
           \_ (real value) I got an 8% raise after first year in large
              company (>10000)
              company (>60,000 employees).
           \_ 8% raise, plus another 6% "increase to match the market"
                because the company realized it was paying too little ^_^
           \_ I got a 1% raise after my first year!!!!!  And they upgraded my
              free candy from Tootsie Rolls to Hershey's Kisses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                        -foreigner
       \_ Well, someone go and bug the career center to reveal what's the median
          salary range for CS & EE and post it here please!!  It was $45K a year
          for Bachelor a year and half ago when I asked .
          \_ Funny you mentioned this. When they gave me the survey, I wrote
             down "$10,000/year PLUS A LOT OF STOCK OPTIONS!!!" I asked all of
             my friends to do the same. I wonder if they really averaged
             all the numbers :) In short, it's probably better to have an
             industry filled with people who have real passion for
             technological wonders than people who are overly money
             hungry or obsessed with making over $XYZk a year      -kchang
                \_ i'm sure it hasn't changed that much since then
             \_ They probably saw the "$10,000/year" part and filed your
                survey in the "Ethnic Studies Major" folder without bothering
                to look any further.  That's why responses like yours don't
                skew the healthy EECS numbers.
        \_ 2 years ago when i graduated, i started out at 35K (june 96).  at
           the end of the year, i also got a 7K bonus so it came out to 42K.
           in june 97, my raise after one year brought me up from 35K base
           to 50K base.  with bonus my salary ended up at around 55K (salary
           restructured to give lower bonsuses).  then 6 months later in
           jan 98, i got another raise and brought me up to 60K base +
           around a 10K bonus for this year.  i also cashed in on my
           stock options as the small company was acquired.  got around
           20K.  this month, i got another raise...our raises are every six
           months now and my new salary is 70K base + 15K/year salary +
           more options in the new larger company that acquired us (they are
           public and IPO).
1998/5/12-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:14089 Activity:low 53%like:14602
5/12    On campus job opening available. Pays well. See
        /csua/pub/jobs/CCS for info.  -saarp
        \_ Nowhere near as well as the CS job above, but much less brainpower
                is required for the IS&T job.
1998/4/24-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:14004 Activity:nil
4/24    If anyone's still looking for software summer internship or a summer-
        fall co-op position, especially at a startup, send resume to
        mch@interwoven.com.  - mch
1998/4/17 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:13979 Activity:high
4/17    Heard my boss said something like "tech skill is petty skill". Is that
        true?
        \_ To some extent. You can go to ITT Technical or Devry and learn very
           specific skills, and to a lot of management and upper level people
           they will not know any difference. So the answer is-- yes and no.
        \_ Meaning what?  People who install memory and disk drives?  Yes.
           People who write new apps in <insert language here>, do real
           sysadmin work, or design hardware?  No.
        \_ I heard a similar comment saying techies were "unskilled"
           I don't think he was referring to disk drive installers tho.
           Corporate management does not respect tech workers (in general)
           That's why they whine about the shortage on one hand and then
           threaten to fire/lay you off if you don't put in 50-60 hour
           weeks.
        \_ Heard _my_ boss say something like "people who troll the soda motd
           hoping to generate massive flames by making random derogatory
           comments about tech workers suck."  Is that true?
        \_ _MY_ boss asked me what my biggest flaw was.  I stood up, unzipped
            my pants, and said "Obviously, it's not the size of my dick"
1998/4/16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW] UID:13967 Activity:nil
4/16    Looking for a web summer intern for Siebel Systems. Email shieh and
        you can find the job desc at /csua/pub/jobs/siebel/. Thanks.
1998/4/15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13961 Activity:very high
4/14    Can someone please give some good answers to the interview
        question: "What is your biggest flaw?"
        \_ Something to consider: if they're asking this sort of inane
           question for a technical position, then you're applying to the
           wrong place.  This is a head-game question.  It doesn't matter
           what you answer.
        \_ Ch33zy: "I work too hard" "I have a tendency to ignore my personal
           life when I get challenging assignments"
           \_ Why is that a flaw? - manager
        \_ "I can't stand people who ask stupid rhetorical questions"
        \_ It's a chance for you to hang yourself.Just make sure your
        answer is positive and strengthens your case...
           \_ Some wanker-manager texts use this question as a way
              to see if the candidate is a BS-er and uses some crap
              answer like "I work too hard" --- most consider that
              sort of cheese a negative, and you don't want to work
              for the ones who call it a positive.
        \_ How about "I'm an honest person. For example, I don't like being told
           to lie to customers."  Can be a real flaw in cut-throat or sleazy
           businesses.  But would you really want to work for them anyway?
        \-yeah, there is a head-game aspect to it, but it is a pretty
        efficient question. i usually am pretty honest and just say
        "i am kinda disorganized". --psb
        \_ Try this - "While I am a decent public speaker, I still get
           a little bit nervous when I have to go up on a stage to
           speak to a large group of people."  This is probably true
           for many people so it is sincere and there is a good chance
           the interviewer will empathize with you.  Also, while the
           problem may be relevant to everyday life, it is often
           irrelevant for technical jobs.
                \_ what a load of bullshit.  Any hiring committee with a clue
                   will see that as an evasive answer.
                        \-to me this is a reasonable category of answer
                but it sounds defensive and canned. "while i am decent ...".
                I would just say "i dont have that much experience giving
                presenatations. One of my flaws is I get very nervous speaking
                to audiences i dont know or suspect are stupid. --psb
           \_ A good way to answer this is something that really is a flaw
              but completely irrelavent to your job, like the above.
              Another good one is, "I'm sorta a klutz."  psb's could also
              fall in this category, depending on the position.
     \_ YOU FUCKING CORPORATE SLAVES MAKE ME SICK.  GET A BACKBONE.
         \_ Wolves hunt in a pack.  Stone age men hunt mammoth in a group.
            Obviously you don't know what slavery is about.
            \_ um what?  I know that slaves often work on a planttation...
               \_ I just don't see anything slavish about working for
                  a corporation or interviewing for a corporate job.
                  Being evaluated may be an uncomfortable experience
                  for many people, but if you are going to pay
                  someone $25 and up every hour, you want to make
                  sure you get the right person, and since you only
                  have about 5 hours to get to know the person, you
                  have to ask some tough questions.
                  \_ This kind of reasoning makes you a slave.  Have a nice
                      life, you l00zer.
                        \_ And you earn how much from who for doing what?
                  \_ asking tough questions and asking stupid questions
                     are two very different things.
                     \_ Whether it is a tough question or stupid question
                        is irrelevant to whether corporate workers are
                        slaves which is what my argument is about.  In
                        fact, I agree that it is a stupid question.
                        However, you can answer a stupid question stupidly,
                        or you can answer it intelligently.
                        \_ however it wasn't irrelevant to the comment it
                           was responding to.  Get a fucking clue.
                           \_ It is irrelevant.  Dumbass.
      \_ I don't give very good head
          \_ thats alright.  one can always be trained to do it right.
             \_ And I can't wait to be trained properly sir/madam!  Do
                I have to swallow ?  manager -- "Yes you do, but don't
                  worry, everyone does it -- there's no other way"
        \_ Just be honest.  Most of time, recruiters and hiring managers
           are just looking to see how self aware prospective employees are...and it works
           to your benefit to accurately state your strengths and areas
           for improvement to ensure for a good fit with the employer's
           environment.  --chris
        \_ I was asked this by some random tech guy doing one of my 'views.
           It was pretty clear he was only asking because he had run out of
           real questions and thought that might be a cool thing to ask. :-)
           I told him I hate stupid people.  :-)
1998/4/7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13908 Activity:very high
4/6     Where can I find software engineer salary surveys on-line?  I've only
        found URL's that say things like "send your info this way and we'll
        contact you".  I am preparing to negotiate with my manager.  Thanks.
                \_ http://www.realrates.com Contracts are also there.
        \_ <DEAD>techweb.cmp.com/eet/salarysurvey/salary/salary.html<DEAD>
           (EE Times 1997 salary survey)
        \_ http://www.realrates.com Contracts are also there.
           \_ Thanks, but that site only lists salaries by a few individuals
              considering the broad range of job categories the site covers.
              Is there any site that lists e.g. "The average salary for
              engineers working on OS software with 4-6 years of experience in
              California (or even Bay Area) is $xxxxx"?  Thanks again.
        \_ how about a sampling of csua'er salaries right here on the motd?
                \_ I'll start: $35k, its@ucb.
                        \_ poor saar - dump is&t and get a real job
        \_ all right, I am under paid!
                \_ $17billion, bgates@m$.com
                \_ 89k industry
                \_ 60k industry
                \_ 75k midwest industry
                \_ $20/hour!!!!  Excited Taos Newbie!!!
                   \_  That's bullshit.  No way Taos would pay only $20/hr
                       to someone with real world SysAdmin or webdev
                       experience and/or knowledge.  And..if you've got
                       4+ years of meaningful experience, you're gonna
                       get a whole lot more than that.--chris
                                \_ Note the word "newbie".  Remember the
                                   shitload of CSUA'ers Taos hired @ $18/hr
                                   for Sun move team a couple years ago.
                                   Acheive enlightenment.  Taos likes to hire
                                   people who think $20/hour is a good salary,
                                   even if they're worth more.
                                        \_ taos now pays only $15/hr for
                                           sun move team, whereas the other
                                           contracting companies pay at
                                           least $20/hr for the same job.
                                   \_ He said "Taos newbie".  That does
                                      not necessarily mean a newbie in the
                                      industry.
                                        \_ Yes it does.  No one with experience
                                                goes with Taos - many other
                                                companies will pay them what
                                                their worth.
                                          \_ Such as?  -curious and ignorant
                       \_ $100K Taos
                       \_ $72K Taos
                   \_ That translates into ~42K per year.  Quite pathetic
                      if you do have 4-6 years of experience.  And
                      if you don't, notice the original post was asking
                      salary range for a person that does have 4-6 yrs
                      of experience.  For a Berkeley EE/CS graduate, I
                      would say ~80K would be reasonable.
                \_ This is really funny.  Bullshitters posting their
                   respective salaries on the motd.
                        \_ I know at least 3 of those are real inc. the 100k.
                \_ $22.50/hr when I started Taos
                   $40/hr when I left
                   $70/hr now or about $90K on salary
                        Oh, and Taos will pay you as little as possible,
                        as will any company if you let them.
                \_ Started Taos at $20/hr with no experience,
                   have been raised to $60K/yr after working one year

        \_9" long.  Oh wait, you wanted to compare salaries not ...
                \_ 3" ... wide.
                   \_ That translates into ~42K per year.  Quite pathetic
                                \_ you know, i realise that salaries in
                                   high tech are generally much higher than
                                   this, but to call $42K per year pathetic
                                   is really unexcusable.  that is a very
                                   good salary in the real world.
                      if you do have 4-6 years of experience.  And
                      if you don't, notice the original post was asking
                      salary range for a person that does have 4-6 yrs
                      of experience.  For a Berkeley EE/CS graduate, I
                      would say ~80K would be reasonable.
1998/3/9-11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Industry/Jobs] UID:13780 Activity:very high 72%like:13791
3/9     What is ISO 9002 certification and why does everyone brag about
        it?
                \_ ISO 9002 is yet another ISO 9000 quality standard.
                everybody brags about it because nobody knows exactly
                what it is.     -muchandr
        \ Most companies get it since ISO 9000 cert.  is required to
        sell software in europe.
        \_ ISO 9000 certification has to do with making sure all your
           processes are documented, and that each document has a revision
           history and an owner.  They come in and ask you how you
           accomplish your job, then ask you to show them the documentation
           that coincides with your explanation.  It's actually not just
           marketing hype, it's something that most organizations should
           be doing anyway, but don't.  -tom
           \_ given the way most (large, especially) companies deal
              with the requirements of ISO 9000, it *is* marketing
              hype.  They pay thousands of dollars once a year to
              make sure they pass the compliance test, rather than
              spending a few thousand to really make it part of
              their business.  That, and it's pretty meaningless
              for software development.
           \_ I actually did an ISO 9000 certification at a large company
              (GE), and you have no clue what you're talking about.  -tom
              \_ I was ISO 9000 deputy for my department for two years,
                 Tom, and I did (passed) two certs.  The above is at
                 least accurate for IBM Austin.  If GE bought into the
                 spirit of ISO, great, but "results are not typical"
                 (note what Scott Adams said about it), especially in
                 software development.  I do agree that the concept is
                 good in theory, though.  -tsang
                 \_ But you're arguing with Tom, so therefore you have no clue
                    what the fuck you're talking about, QED.  Because his
                    particular experience with the ISO 9000 process was
                    positive, _every other_ experience _every other_ person
                    has with ISO, _anywhere_, _has to be_ the same as his.
                 \_ Gee, the first person didn't provide any experience, and
                    didn't sign his name.  I think it's pretty clear that he
                    doesn't know what he's talking about.  tsang apparently
                    has a different experience, which is not the same as
                    having a different, unfounded opinion.  -tom
                    \_ first person was me, too... didn't think I'd have to
                       provide a resume just to provide a general opinion
                       (seen the ISO chapter in Dilbert Future?)  -tsang
1998/1/23-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13557 Activity:moderate
1/23    root@cory looking for Full-Time UNIX Sysadmin (P/A III)
        See <DEAD>www-inst.eecs/~kevinm/jobs.html<DEAD>
        \_ How much do P/A IIIs get in salary these days anyway?
           \_ I got paid $41K doing P/A II for a professor.
          \_ Not enough.
          \_ $45k - $82k according to http://hrweb.berkeley.edu/PAY/parate.htm
                \_ Don't expect to start at 82k.  As a new hire you won't
                   see more than 55k or so since the bozos in personel make
                   up the salary offer, not the hiring department.
                   \_ oh, come on.  The same is true in any large software
                     co.  This is a very fair price rance, esp considering
                     the laid back environment of a univerisity job.
                     doooofus.
                     \_ Doooofus, I work in the so-called laid back
                        environment of the university.  It depends on the
                        job you've got.  Many people working for Cal have
                        bitch jobs they're way underpaid for which is why
                        so many key people have left in the last 3+ years.
                        Also, Cal isn't a large software corp in case you
                        didn't notice.  Also, 55k was the top end you're
                        likely to start at and you won't see 80k for a good
                        20+ years.
                        \_ sorry , I should have said "idiot", for staying
                        at a job like that.  Lotsa jobs at UC are pretty laid
                        back, and u get more than 55k.  Sorry  for the confusion.
1998/1/23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13554 Activity:high
1/22    Maybe I should hire some of my own interns this summer...
        \_ No wonder the co-op girl I worked with last summer was hired.
           She's hired juz cuz she's pretty and my boss prefered talking 2 her
           even though she knew jack shit 'bout the project.
           \_ but did she swallow?
           \_ No shit, genius.  How do you think the world works?  On pure
              merit? HAHAHHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!
        \_ I find this discussion extremely degrading to women.  Typical
           soda geeks - pretend to be nice in real life but degrade
           women anonymously - female on soda.
           \_ you're an idiot. Soda geeks degrade women in real life too.
1997/3/28 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Jobs] UID:32113 Activity:nil
3/27    hello, bigbook mass layoffs. web worker mass suicide. coincidence?
        new novel plot? you decide. --partha "pynchon" banerjee
        \_ Don't remove my comments about suggesting the Taos minions kill
            themselves just like those SD geeks did; it's impolite.
        \_ Did, by chance, 39 employees get laid off by Bigbook and move
           to San Diego?  -John
        \_ They had BB options.  Now redeemable for Mc Donalds gift
            certificates!!
        \_ Not one female... talk about discriminatory.
           \_ Actually, in some of the bigger companies, HR postprocesses
              the layoff roll to make sure disadvantaged minorities are
              not disproportionately targeted.  Theoretically, this is a
              good thing.  Practically, this means disadvantaged minorities
              are much less likely to get laid off than advantaged minorities
              or majorities.

           \_Actually, there were several females but htey shaved their
             heads and looked like men.  Also, they were strangled which
             counts as murder in San Diego.
        \_ http://www.heavensgate.com ==> Too many users. Please try again later.
         \_http://www5.zdnet.com/yil/higher/heavensgate
        \_ Oh my god, I believe that Do and Dr. Kevorkian are brothers!!!
        \_ Come join the engineering cult! Spend the rest of your life
           in Soda Hall, doing projects! Free your soul with your innate
           nerdiness!!!
1996/12/21 [Politics/Domestic, Industry/Jobs] UID:32022 Activity:nil
12/20   One word: Ebonics
        \_ The Oakland school board's attempt to provide better conformity
           to the standardized English by using ESL techniques and funding
           may have some serious political fallout.  In particular if
           Ebonics is recognized as seperate language, it provides an
           objective criterion for racists to exclude blacks at hiring
           time: "we require all our employees to speak English" -mel
        \_ Hey--until you hypocrites remove the jive program from this
           machine, none of you are in any position to comment on what
           K-12 teachers are trying to do with Black English. --elizp
           \_ I think 'none of you' is singular in standard written
              English - choice
              \_ Only in the American dialects.  Most English, Indian,
           and Australian dialects use the plural for collectors
           (e.g. "the audience are") -mel
           \_ The jive program is the closest thing to a serious study
              of Black English on this system.  You should look into its
              code and development before you condemn it. -mel
           \_ get a fucking clue.  The "jive" program is not provided
              as an educational tool.  idiot.
           \_ Aye, I don't think anyone here suggested using Jive to
              proofread their paper for them.
              \_ I think elizp suggested that because we have Jive, we
          are not in a position to comment on teaching ebonics.  That's
          just absurd.
           \_ Censorship man. It's groovy.
        \_ Ebonics math: 1 gat + 2 gats done be 3 gats done be pappappap
           shootin' da man wid.
           \_ Brutha' gots 3 vials o' crack. Brutha sells the crack for 20
              bucks/vial. How many dead presidents do he gots after he sells
              all of his crack?
        \_ Word, muthafukah!
1996/11/16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32007 Activity:nil
11/14   job openings at Drogin, Kakigi & Associates, see:
         /usr/local/csua/jobs/dkstat/
         http://www.dkstat.com/employment
1996/11/13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:32002 Activity:nil
11/11   Shameless job advertising in /usr/local/csua/jobs/NetForce
        At the moment we need sysadmin-types, but there are many
        positions available. - pmcnab
        \ chmod it!
          \_  Done.  Been a long week already. - pmcnab
1996/11/4 [Industry/Jobs] UID:31988 Activity:nil
11/2    Full-time and part-time software engineering positions in the area
        of multimeda networking avaiable at Concatus Corporation.
        See /usr/local/csua/jobs/concatus for details.
1996/10/6 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:31922 Activity:nil 50%like:32076
10/2    Sysadmin position available at Active Software, inc.  See:
        /usr/local/csua/jobs/Active -eric
        \_ I checked with our chairman, and the position includes equity
        in the company -eric
1996/9/29 [Science, Industry/Jobs] UID:31908 Activity:nil
9/26    Co-op position for spring semester for a cs major who is familiar with
        visual basic and excel.  Not a buff job, but good for a first time
        intern experience.  Oh, yeah, the company is HMT Technology.
        Mail me if you're interested.  -corinney
1994/2/14-22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:31478 Activity:nil 55%like:31497
2/10    Please add your resume's to the CSUA resume' book!
        The sooner you get it in, the more people will see it.  Also,
        you might want to submit one, even if you are not looking for a job,
        just to get your name out.  submissions and questions to
        resume-submit@soda
1994/2/8 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36432 Activity:nil
2/7     I understand that it would be nice to have a resume' book
        of as many CSUA'ers as we can get. Well, I just finished
        updating my own resume', and I suppose I'd be willing to
        collect resume's eventually leading to a cool looking book.
        Send your resume's (any form) to marco@soda, and I'll include them.
        \_ kewl!  You're officially in charge! - seidl
        \_ So, marco, what will you be doing with these resume's?
1993/5/26-28 [Computer/SW/Security, Industry/Jobs] UID:31330 Activity:nil
5/19    Berkeley Systems, Inc (makers of the AfterDark screen saver) is looking
        for a full-time assistant in their Access products group -- products
        to make computers accessable by vision-impaired users.  Complete
        details in ~dwallach/bsi.job
1993/4/19 [Recreation/Food, Industry/Jobs, Academia/GradSchool] UID:31278 Activity:nil
4/18    Xxxx xxxx food? Xxxx to win an XX calculator? Xxxx to
        here from an XXX recruiter? Xxxx to hear about grad school.
        Then come to XXXXX's X-XXX. This thursday. See ~xxxxx/public/spac.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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