7.10    http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030710/economy_6.html
        They say new jobless claims hit a 20-year high
        but i am wondering if any of this is due to the
        fact more people were employed during the dot-com
        boom so there are more potential workers out of jobs
        and also, is it because they are simply more people
        in the workplace due to population growth and the fact
        that the past good economy got some people to get off
        their lazy ass and get a job? Or are all these factors
        already deducted from the statistics?
        \_ percentages of poeple filing are really high too.  The fact
           is that things are bad out there.
        \_ It's sort of like how recent movie hit all-time box office
           highs in ticket sales, but do they consider that tickets now
           average nearly $10 while in 1977 i saw Star Wars for $3.00?
           \_ Well, at least one site, http://boxofficemojo.com, does (Gone With
              The Wind is #1 all-time)
           \_ Yeah I hate that.
        \_ actual unemployment is usually a lot higher than the published
           the figure most of the time.  Further, If a person who is too
           lazy to look for a job, he won't be counted as an unemployed.
           Population is always growing, so that is not an excuse.  The real
           issue is that we are in a post over-produced economy, and there
           isn't a clear way to get out of it.  History is not very
           encouraging, as last time we got out of the mess by declar war
           on Germany and Japan.
           \_ See?  Bush is trying to get us out of the oncoming Depression!
              Why can't we all just help him start WW III ?
           \_ Anyone too lazy to look for a job (your crack mama) shouldn't
              count as unemployed.  She goes on permanent welfare and ends up
              counted under a different statistic and rightly so.  Part of the
              problem in tech is the H1b program.  With zillions of qualified
              Americans unemployed they're still letting in foreigners under a
              program intended to let in foreigners only to fill jobs where no
              qualified American is available.  And worse is abuse of the L
              program which has even fewer restrictions on who can come in, do
              what, for how long and how much.
              \_ what a shitty little troll you are.
                 \_ I'm glad you took the time to respond to something that
                    professional economists and others have pointed out for
                    years with an empty personal attack.  My points stand and
                    you're wasting bits until you say something worth posting.
                    \_ Businesses have cried that there aren't enough H1b
                       visas issued!  It's all about the free market; local
                       labor prices themselves right out of it.  Why pay more
                       when you can get an H1b guy who won't complain or
                       join unions?  Are you saying that companies that are
                       using H1b's are intentionally driving this economy
                       down?
                       \_ The H1b program was not created to push labor prices
                          down.  It was very specifically created to allow
                          companies to hire foreigners when there wasn't a
                          qualified American available.  It had nothing to do
                          with the free market or labor rates.  Any other use
                          is an abuse of the program.
                          \_ that's how they described it but it's pretty clear
                             that in practice it's just a cheap labor device.
                             "qualified" and "available" in that criteria are
                             just too hard to enforce.
                             \_ No, there are very clear regulations that state
                                how much effort a company must go through to
                                try to not only hire an American but *replace*
                                H1b workers with an American.  The only problem
                                here is abuse of the program which the feds
                                allow by ignoring it.  The difference here is
                                that I'm talking about the law and you're just
                                writing whatever you 'feel'.
                                \_ His feelings are as valid as a law that
                                   is ignored.
                                   \_ No because the law could and should be
                                      enforced.  His feelings should not.
                                \_ Abuse is not the "only problem". The law
                                   itself is the problem when it is too hard
                                   to enforce/easy to abuse. God you're dumb.
                                   \_ It isn't too hard to enforce.  They
                                      choose not to.  Thanks for the babyish
                                      personal attack.  You look so smart now.
                       \_ Business would prefer to pay $1/hr to workers for
                          80 hour work weeks, are you in favor of that, too?
                          \_ Yes, and it would work like this:  There aren't
                             that many people willing to work in those
                             conditions, and there would be a labor shortage.
                             To attract more workers, businesses would raise
                             wages and/or give other benefits, until a balance
                             was reached.  Free market all the way.
                             \_ Let's see, there are 800 M Chinese willing to
                                work for $1/hr and 100M Americans who are not.
                                How low do you think wages would go under your
                                plan?
                                \_ who the hell are you to cry about your
                                   artificially high wages??  If businesses
                                   *want* to lose money they can overpay
                                   for american workers.  Get some more
                                   marketable skills; not all workers add
                                   the same value to a company.
                                   \_ There are so skill so marketable that
                                      your job can't be outsourced for less to
                                      a third world country.  What set of
                                      skills should we all go get that can't
                                      be sent overseas?