5/13    Are employers in the Bay Area paying so incredibly low these days? I
        still have an inflated dot-com era salary from 2000 and I'm realistic
        about taking a 20%-25% cut if I were to switch jobs. But even then, it
        seems that when I give a potential employer my adjusted minimum, I
        never hear back. Are places really hiring people with >5 years exp
        for $70k?
        \_ I recently took more than a 1/3rd salary hit to leave my old place.
           I expect/hope that my new lower income is temporary and in time I
           shall return to near what my old salary was.  The plus side is that
           I now work with really great people, the company is making money
           and the company long term focus is to make the company attractive
           to big buyers so maybe our options will have value some day.  It's
           a risk but I'm happy in the meantime and making enough money.  I
           miss the mega salary but I had to learn the hard way that money
           really isn't everything.  A certain income level is required to pay
           the bills and have savings.  After that?  Be happy.  OTOH those of
           you who have 5+ years in anything technical and hate your jobs and
           make less than $100k need to go job hunting.  There's no point in
           waiting for some magical date to start looking.  You can find the
           great job at any time.  Start now.  I started at the very beginning
           of the recent upturn.  Do not expect things to return to 1998
           levels ever again in your lifetime.  Place offering $70k for > 5yrs
           who aren't giving you some other reason to signup are fucked.  Just
           move on.  You should ask them their range before giving up yours.
        \_ economy is picking up, be patient.  Many places is starting to hire.
           yeah, I took a pay cut, at exactly $70k now.
           \_ Ditto.
           \_ wow, i am 70k too, 7 yrs out of school.
           \_ What do you guys do?
        \_ Where should I be after 18 months out of college, EECS?  I like my
           job, just curious.
           \_ Ditto.
           \_ Start at $58K, you should now be at $63K?
           \_ Where should I be after 72 months out of college, EECS?
              -geordan
        \_ I got a 20% raise in 2001 when I switched job after the previous
           company went Chapter 7.  After that, 2% raise last year and 3% raise
           this year at the same job.
           \_ yeah.. seems that changing jobs is the fastest way to boost
              your salary, especially if you're being underpaid
        \_ Are the figures on http://salary.com still accurate?  Or were they based
           on salaries from 2000?
        \_ I don't why someone keeps censoring this (I am using motdedit)
           but $70K is very underpaid for the Bay Area. In the LA area
           *civil* engineers who work for the *government* are getting
           $100K+ after 10 years. You guys at 7 years out should be near
           or over $100K. If you love your job that's fine, but if not LEAVE!
           \_ I have a MS, and I'm 7 years out of school. I make >$110k, but
              was just offered a job for $80k. I hate my current dot-com job,
              but I don't think I hate it by >$30k. -op
              \_ Have you considered saying to them something along the
                 lines of "I'd really like to take the job, but I'm afraid
                 I couldn't handle the pay cut."  They might up their
                 offer.  If they don't, no loss.
           \_ Civil engineers are paid more than programmers these days.
           \_ Which branch of government? Certainly not federal or state.
              \_ County, but federal pays pretty well too.
                 \_ I find this suspect. Do you have a URL? Government
                    salaries are supposed to be public knowledge.
                    \_ Well, why should I care if you find it suspect? I
                       know two civil engineers. However, here's one job:
                       http://www.lacsd.org/personnel/ElectricalEngineerNew.htm
                       You might start at $6-7K but by 10 years+ you will
                       exceed the stated $8K mark.
                       \_ Thanks.
        \_ SAGE has the best report for syadmin salaries out there.
           For SF Bay Area, they report $86k median for 5-9 yrs
           experience. $98k for 10-12 yrs. Are you a programmer or a
           sysadmin?
           experience. $98k for 10-14 yrs. Are you a programmer or a
           sysadmin? BTW, I get paid $90k in salary and a stock grant
           worth $23k at current valuation for 10 yrs experience.
           \_ Does it have figures for programmers as well?
              \_ nope. I don't know of a similar study for programmers.
                 From http://salary.com and anecdotally, I would guess that programmers
                 used to get paid 10-20% more, now probably about the same. I
                 have no idea if this is correct though.
           \_ and are you a programmer or a sysadmin?
              \_ shouldn't matter.  the pay ranges are almost exactly the same.
                 \_ This is not going to remain true over time.
                    \_ I think it will, but what's your theory?
                       \- i think it'll fluctuate in both directions. currently
                          the hip thing to do is outsource programmers. the
                          effects of outsourcing might actually be to incraease
                          average salaries, bc the low end jobs won't be here.
              \_ sysadmin
        \_ That's a bit low.  Economy has picked up -- companies _are_
           hiring.  Certainly, it depends on your skills and attitude...but
           $70K is on the low side now.  fyi.  --chris