10/7    Did a google search on how to grow and maintain bent grass for a
        putting green in my backyard but didn't get good links. Any
        advice?
        \_ call a golf course and ask to talk to whoever does the grass?
        \_ There are lots of resources on the web. Train harder.
           \_ growing grass is easy, but how are you gonna cut the
              grass at such a low height? Regular lawn mowers will not do...
              \_ can't you just use some fake turf?
              \_ You buy a reel mower. They can cut down to 1/4". Better yet
                 is a greens mower. You mow every other day. This is all on
                 the web. It's a lot of work what with topdressing, frequent
                 mowing, and such. If you think it is easy maybe it isn't for
                 you. --dim

10/7    I've got this weird light socket in my house. The lightbulb in it
        is good because I tried it elsewhere and didn't have problems.
        The light goes out after about 4 minutes and 15-30 seconds. It
        turns back on pretty consistently in about 1 minute, 40 seconds.
        It makes a clicking noise when it goes on or off this way.
        Any ideas?
        \_ I've had something similar happen with a dimmer switch.  Is there
           one?
           \_ nope.
        \_ If this is a ceiling socket (ie, not a lamp) it might be that the heat
           from the bulb is causing something to overheat.  Get an electrician
           to take a look at the wires and make sure they're not overly damaged,
           and then have him replace the socket.
           \_ or if you are lucky, it is a newer socket with a built-in
              thermal cut-out to prevent damage.  try a lower wattage bulb.
              \_ it's 50 watts. i'm not so sure about going much lower than that.
                 compact fluorescent might help with a heat problem though.
        \_ Get Linux
           \_ get a life
              \_ RIDE BIKE!  USE CANDLE!
                 \_ I caution you, open flames can lead to the immolation
                    of entire cities.
                    \_ Wasn't the Chicago cow story a myth?
           \_ Wave a fan at it while its on and see if it stays on longer...
              If it cuts off just as fast, you know not to worry about heat.

10/7    <DEAD>www.recallarnold.us<DEAD>
        Collecting links to all the sites popping up all over the place
        that are starting to push for The Next Logical Step. -alexf
        \_ It would be political suicide for the Democrats to start a recall
           on Arnold.  Not only would it be difficult to get enough signatures,
           but it would *never* pass the general vote and the party would be
           *brutally* punished in 2004.  As a conservative I can only hope that
           the leftist go for it.  They might as well just shoot themselves now
           and save the rest of us the trouble of seeing suicide in slow
           motion.  *PLEASE* try to recall Arnold.  I'd love to see the Dem
           party implode and CA vote (R) in 2004.  --Tom voter
        \_ The recall is only a mockery of the political process when
           the democrat gets recalled, eh?
           \_  Uh- it's a mockery when you start the recall before the
               person even takes office.  The other guy had 5 years on
               record leading to the steps.
                \_ It's still a mockery.  It's just tit for tat.  What,
                   only Republicans get to take advantage of shit?
                \_ What the guy above said. It's still very much a mockery.
                   But what would you rather have -- mockery or Ahnold
                   in office? And who do you think would be more likely
                   to actually push through legislation to kill this
                   recall loophole for good (that is, raise the 12% barrier
                   to something more respectable, etc)?
                   \_ Arnold got 47.7% (91% reporting) out of a field of
                      130.  That's a landslide no matter how colored your
                      glasses are.  If people don't vote, fuck em.  They
                      don't count.
                      \_ The one thing you're missing: in a real democratic
                         election, Gray Davis would have been able to run.
                         How many people would've chosen Davis over Arnold?
                         (Let alone over Bustamante?)
                         \_ Don't kid yourself.  Everyone understood that a
                            Yes on recall was a Yes on Arnold.  Gray was
                            running against himself.  If he can't win a
                            simple yes/no, he sure as hell can't win against
                            a human being.
                        \_ dumb fuck, a no on recall is a vote for Davis
                   to something more respectable, etc)? -alexf
                   \_ Ahnold in office.  You people can't have it both ways.
                      Getting rid of a moron governor is a much better reason
                      to put up with 'mockery' (which is an odd way to define
                      the law of the land) than tit-for-tat which is just
                      petty.  So either drop the mockery line or stand
                      above the gutter yourselves.
                   \_ It isn't a loophole.  It's the law.  Loophole doesn't
                      above the gutter yourselves.
                      mean what you think it means.

10/7    Why is the Bay Area 80% on No on recall? What makes the Bay Area
        different? Education (cuz we're smarter than everyone else)? Cuz
        of our Cal/StanfUrd education? Cuz of our jobs? I just don't see
        a strong connection in any of the above I mentioned.    -confused.
        \_ Gays and hippies. The people in Silicon Valley are alarmingly
           to the right like good businesspeople tend to be.
           \_ right. and that's why SV voted down the recall and for Cruz?
              \_ I was referring more to the business leaders.
        \_ Groupthink.  Most who want to think differently have already left;
           there's no good reason to stay in the Bay Area when you can get
           it better elsewhere.
        \_ Education has nothing to do with it.  The BA is just very left.
           You don't need to look any deeper than that.  This is a place where
           people talk openly about how "all republicans are evil and I hate
           them all!" on a daily basis even though most of them never met a
           republican.  Maybe they have a friend who mismarked a ballot once.
           \_ People who are highly educated tend to vote Democratic.
              http://www.thelonious.com/ephemera/voter_education.html
              \_ Academia is full of leftists.  I'm not at all surprised they
                 vote left.  Where's the shocker?
        \_ We spend our money on books and whiskey, they spend it on
           boob jobs and movies. Who do you think is smarter?
           \_ Who is 'we' and 'they'?
        \_ Don't be confused.  That's what I expected.  BA people are
           well-informed.  Most realized the problems in CA are not all because
           of Davis.  These are national problems.
           \_ no...there are too many women in the BA.
              \_ I believe it was nearly split for women voters.  Something
                 like 52:48 or so last I saw.  It certainly isn't because
                 BA people are brilliant and open minded.  I've been around
                 and never met a bigger bunch of self righteous knuckle
                 draggers anywhere.  It's ok to be arrogant if you really
                 *are* better than everyone else.  The people in the BA are
                 no better than elsewhere; worse because they think they are.
        \_ Yes, BA residents are a lot more well educated than the residents
           in the south (Latinos, blacks, and Korean gangs). In fact we
           make more $ and have more prestigious jobs and most of us own
           properties that are valued at least 2X as high as the properties
           in the south. In general, South is full of hicks and North rules.
           History has proved this over and over again. Confederates are
           hicks and Unions rule. South Americans are hicks and North
           Americans rules. South Hemispherians are hicks and North
           Hemispherians rule. Southern Californians are hicks and Northern
           Californians rule. So yes, we are vastly SUPERIOR and hence
           Hemispherians rule. So yes, we are vastly SUPERIOR and hence
           we are really better than everyone else.
           \_ No more educated or rich than people in, say, Orange County.
              What did you think when houses cost more in the South, which
              was the case forever until recently? In fact, for equivalent
           we are really better than everyone else.
              neighborhoods I think they still do.

10/7    To the photo idiot below-- learn something about aperature, shutter
        speed, focus, and how everything else relate to each other. A cheapo
        Pentax K1000 full manual with a decent lense will cost about $150
        and a book on photography will cost you about $20. It'll be a much
        much better investment than trying to find a good photo development
        place cuz in these days, photo development is precise enough that
        it's really hard for the common naked eyes to discern any difference.
        \_ I like how you assume the guy is a photo idiot.
           How do you know that person isn't a person who is experienced
           with film cameras, and has just moved into the Digital
           World with DSLR equipment and would like to know the
           digital world better.
        \_ only thing special about digital photography is that it replaces
           chemical emulsion as a mean to record images.  Everything else,
           apature, shutter speed, DOF, and even the size of film / CCD
           sensor and its relationship with photo quality is still the same.
           I wouldn't go as far as getting a beat up Pentax K1000 and shooting
           B&W filem, but I do think buying a book on casual photography
           would do *MORE* to help the guy with his photo than trying to
           find out the best development lab in the area.  The truth is,
           in the past, what differentiate good lab from bad one are their
           quality on film development (oppose to making prints), and things
           like rather they would scratch the negatives, or get dusts on the
           negatives, etc. None of these qualities applies to digital
           photography.  So, in a way, asking for a good lab is not really
           a smart question, photo quality is determined as soon as you
           press the shutter.
        \_ photo idiot?  hey nice way to lend a hand on the motd, bruiser.
           do you break old lady's legs so they can use motorised wheelchairs
           to cross the street?  it's so much more efficient.

10/7    Now that the election is over, how is California going to fix its
        budget deficit?  I hope the state won't go bankrupt requiring my
        tax dollars to bail it out.
        \_ We already are bankrupt.  Too late for that.  Last I saw we were
           $8 billion in the hole since the courts didn't allow the shenanigans
           that pushed that into next year's budget.  Cuts & taxes are the
           only choices left.
           \_ By bankrupt, I mean the state defaulting on its bonds.
              \_ Oh.  Even without money that's still a long time off because
                 we pay our bonds before we pay anything else.

10/7    Despite being hit the hardest in terms of the economy, 60% of Bay Area
        voters voted no on the recall.  Now the movie begins.
        \_ What gave you the idea that the BA was hardest hit?  H1bs going
           back to India don't count.
           \_ http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/04/07/daily66.html?f=et79
              \_ Most of them came here specifically for dotcom jobs when the
                 rate was under 2% and when they go home the rate will look
                 normal again.
           \_ do you count jobs going to India?
              \_ Jobs not here are jobs not here.  I really don't understand
                 what you're getting at.
        \_ http://csua.org/u/4n2

10/7    Gray gave a very nice speech.  He's clearly not going to be leaving
        politics.  Also, exit polls gave Tom a 53% positive rating across all
        voters.  I hope he runs against Boxer.
        \_ This is a punch in the stomach of state democrats. I hope they
           learned their lesson. In the meantime, Go Arnold!
           \_ Yeah, it was a punch in the stomach 3 years ago when Bush won.
              Boy, did I learn my lesson because today America is much
              better than it was 3 years ago, right?
              \_ We're talking state politics, right? So stop talking Bush
                 here. Davis was a nasty politician, just a notch above
                 corrupt. The governorship was for sale to the highest
                 bidder. If he was even 1/2 the governor that he was during
                 the last few weeks, he'd still be in office. But we all
                 saw thru the charade. He's gone, and good riddance. I'm
                 not pro-bush. I hate him. I hate most republicans, but when
                 the democrats go this wrong, this will send a message that
                 they better listen to. And don't get me wrong, the mesg goes
                 out to republicans, too, because they are just as much to
                 blame as anybody for the mess we're in. This lets Sacramento
                 know that the people will vote them out if they don't do
                 their job. My only regret is that there won't be a
                 "Kindergarten Cop II". Damn!
                 \_ Oh, for the love of Christ-- the governorship is still
                    up for sale, it's just that the price has gone up.  Instead
                    of selling relatively cheap to Indian Casinos and Labor
                    Unions, expect the Governator to be kind to big Energy in
                    exchange for big political payoffs now and later.  Say
                    goodbye to any chance of us getting more than pittance
                    from Enron, et. al.
                    \_ You're so 2001.  We already weren't going to get
                       anything more from anyone on the energy bills.  If you
                       thought otherwise it was just some caffeine induced
                       starbuck's fantasy.
                    \_ Arnie will prove you wrong.
                       \_ You know what?  I hope you're right.  I hope Arnie
                          will turn out to be that rarest of critters, a
                          truly uncorrupt, fiscally responsible, truly
                          compassionate conservative.  If he does, I will
                          gladly post my most humble apologies right here.
                          In the meantime, even though I voted no on the
                          Recall, I will gladly admit that I am happy to
                          see Davis on his way out.  If only we'd impeached
                          him instead....
                    \_ I hope this will send a message to the white house, too.
           \_ nope. I am a democrat and I am not sure what "lesson" have
              I learned, other than the fact not voting for Bush means
              get screwed big time by Texas cowboys on Energy supply
              and no federal intervention because the whitehouse and
              the Kenny Boy is in the same club.
              \_ I'll spell it out for you: there's no aristocracy in this
                 state.  The people count and they're tired of seeing a jerkoff
                 like Davis blatantly sell out their interests to anyone with
                 a dollar and a bill they need signed.  We have power and they
                 better wake the fuck up.  That's the lesson to our worthless
                 "take a walk on that bill" legislators.
                 \_ The people are easily led and willing to believe that a
                    rich and ambitious man won't sell them down the river to
                    further the aims of the super-rich and politically
                    connected.  Your masses, sir, are asses.
                    \_ They knew when they were getting screwed by a publicly
                       known corrupt politico and dumped his fat corrupt ass.
                       The people are just people and sometimes they fuck up
                       but this wasn't one of those times.  If the election
                       had gone the other way you'd be here screaming how
                       brilliant the people are.  Are you the same poster from
                       above who thinks BA voters are somehow special and
                       extra smart because the majority voted against recall?
        \_ I loved how he was introduced: "best gov in the history of calif."
           \_ Best governor in the last 11 months for sure!
        \_ "It's a tumah! It's not a tumah!"

10/7    Genetic susceptibility for SARS found:
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994226
        \_ The only problem is the many Canadians who fell ill,
           and the doctor (Italian?) in Vietnam.

10/8    Women supported Arnold (and other demographic trivia):
        http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/07/recall.exit/index.html

10/8    Check this out:
        http://www.fuckedstate.com/archives/mapN4031007215410.gif
        I think its time the North Coast of California woke the fuck up
        and seceded from the rest of the state.  We can call ourselves
        "Marijuania."
        \_ Good riddance.
        \_ Um, where do you think N. California starts?  I say North of
           Sacremento.  Which pretty much all heavily voted for the recall,
           so I don't see your point.  If you had said western CA...
           \_ I said NORTH COAST.  READ.

10/8    Fall into ocean people vs not as a voting pattern:
        http://www.sfgate.com/election/races/2003/10/07/map.shtml

10/8    Can we call the governor "The Fuhrer"?
        \_ Arnold is no fascist, but there is something disturbing about
           the emotional justification people seem to have for voting for
           Arnold, and how inextricably linked it is to his violent movies
           and violent entertainment.  I don't think its exactly healthy
           for our democracy.
        \_ http://www.statestats.com/edrank03.htm
           Notice we're behind Florida now.  We're clearly on a trend
           to be America's Dumbest State!  We #1!  Woo!
           \_ Nah, Alabama's gunning for #1, and they've got a lot of
              experience.
        \_ He's from Austria so he's a Nazi/Hitler clone?  If he was from
           some other country with >insert your favorite minority here<
              \_ HAHAHHAHAHA you're going to try to claim that calling him
                 a Nazi because of his background isn't racist?  BWAHAHHAA!
           would it still be ok to make racist comments about him?
           \_ Do you know what racism _is_?  Prejudice yes, racism no.
              \_ [ censor me, I'll censor you, fuckwad ]

10/7    Anybody know of a free solids-modeling application for Linux?
        \_ you can try poop. either your own, or someone else's if they're
           willing to donate it. best when not too wet, but not too dry.
           and the best part is it's totally free and cross-platform.
           \_ of course if poop were really a Linux application, there
              would now follow a two page flame war about dog poop vs.
              horse poop.

10/8    China's first manned space flight might be next week:
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994252
        \_ boring
           \_ yeah, we should just change the name of the file to
              /etc/motd.public.election.flames
           \_ it's never boring to see real live human beings turn to ash in
              mid-air.  that's what made the shuttle blowing up twice so cool.

10/8    Mystery blood clots killing the troops:
        http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20031006-113325-5591r
        \_ Clearly an evil Bushco Conspiracy(tm)!  Recall Bushco!
           \_ You do know that often military personnel will be subject
              to what amounts to involuntary, uncontrolled "trials" of
              new vaccines/medications.
              \_ Which always get into the press.  With 130k dudes walking
                 around in the heat in full battle gear downing MREs theres
                 going to be some bad things happening to some people.  We
                 already covered the conspiracy thing in this thread.
           \_ Fuck off brownshirt.
              \_ *laugh*  Whatever.  You're so lost.
           \_ Did you even read the article? It has nothing to do
              with the bush administration/politics.
              \_ Of course not.  Why would I read the url before adding my
                 comments?  It's the motd and it's got something to do with
                 the troops so I'm just getting to the point right away.  Sorry
                 if I ruined the buildup and lengthy trolling.

10/8    Media myth of large turnout for recall...Secretary of State's site
        shows 7.78 million voted in the recall.  Look at this pdf:
        http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/sov/2002_general/sum.pdf
        7.74 million voted in the 2002 general...So I'd hardly call
        40,000 extra votes a "record turnout."
        \_ Yeah, I checked some numbers too - for a (2000 census)
           population of 34 million, 7.74 million is not a very high
           percentage (even considering the portion of 34 million not
           old enough/registered/etc to vote)
        \_ According to:
           http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/sov/2002_general/reg.pdf
           the turnout for the Nov 2002 election was 50.57% of registered
           voters.
           \_ More disturbing is the 36.05% of elligible voters.
              \_ Don't you mean "voting-age population", which includes
                 a lot of people who can't vote?

10/8    how many votes did Georgie get?
        0% (1,930): http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2003/recall/pages/governor
        \_ That's 192900% more than you did.
        \_ she should run for president next.
        \_ less than Angelyne
        \_ "Brains, beauty, leadership" as a campaign slogan?  Sorry, but
           that's lame.

10/8    if Bustamante didn't run , Gray Davis would still be Governor.
        \_ yeah, cuz moron democrats couldn't figure out a no on recal is a yes
           vote for Gray Davis
           \_ What the poster is saying that the yes on recall and bustamante
              votes were very likely no votes if he hadn't run.
        \_ ^did^had
        \_ That is by far the 2nd dumbbest thing I have heard about this
           election. More people voted for Arnold, with 134 other
           candidates, than Davis in 2002.
        \_ If McClintock doesn't run, Arnold wins by an even bigger landslide

10/8    Carter power will soon go away
        I will be Fuhrer one day
        I will command all of you
        Your kids will meditate in school
        California! Uber Alles!
        Uber Alles! CALIFORNIA!
        Zen fascists will control you
        100% natural
        You will jog for the master race
        And always wear the happy face
        Close your eyes can't happen here
        Big Bro' on white horse is near
        The hippies won't come back you say
        Mellow out or you will pay!
        California! UBER ALLES!
        UBER ALLES! CALIFORNIA!
        \_ the version from Convenience is probably more appropriate now.
           or the remix about Wilson.
           \_   I'm so proud to know the Great Communicator
                Wanna be known as the Great Incarcerator
                I'll blow environmentalists away
                And I'll be the fuhrer some day
                I'll keep cuttin' Public Education
                even though we rang 45th in the nation
                I've got a plan for all the minorities
                Send'em to the California Youth Authorities
                From San Francisco Urban Elementary
                to Pelican Bay State Penitentiary
                There they can work for the master race
                and always wear a happy face
                Close your eyes, it can't happen here
                Big Brother in a squad car's comin' near
                Come enjoy the surf and the sun
                and help California number one !
                \_ that's the one.  who wrote that(the remix)?
                   i have a pirated tape copy.
                   \_ Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, appearing
                      on the Virus 100 tribute album to the DKs.
                      \_ thanks!
        \_ [ HEY.  WRONG THREAD.  I said buzz off. ]

10/8    I've got to parse very simple XML files in Java.  Is it worth using/
        installing either the Sun parser (JAXB/P??) or xerces or something, or
        should I just write my own?  It seems fairly straightforward.  I'm
        just wondering whether there's an advantage to the commercial ones.
        \_ http://xml.apache.org... the SAX parsers are fairly simple, and you only
           need to set ~ 4 listeners to use it (all the same object)

10/8    Dude Jennifer Widom is a HOTTIE!!! How'd good 'ol ugly Aiken
        manage to get a beautiful wife like her?
        \_ by not being as stupid as you.
        \_ maybe he's not as superficial as you or i. also, maybe he doesn't
           plan on having children.
           \_ dude did you even look at the picture? we're talking bag time.
              \_ what's bag time mean? and ok, i take back the thing about the
                 children. tho, the last picture he had up, at least she had
                 longer hair and didn't look so much like a man. but still,
                 some people just don't care. just look at some of the ugly-ass
                 men some reasonably attractive women will get with, and not
                 for money or anything.
                 \_ such as, for example, a whole bunch of CSUA motd dweebs

10/8    I just saw a car with the license plate 'UNIX'  Anyone know whose car
         it is?
        \_ No, but if you knew what would it matter?
           \_ It doesn't matter, I'm just curious.  There are a lot of
              possibilities for a car like that in Berkeley
        \_ What state?
           \_ Sorry, California
              \_ Original Owner: Ted Dolotta
                 Current Owner:  John R. Mashey (as of Mar 2002)
                 For more info see:
                 http://www.balug.org/ml/balug-talk/msg01535.html
                 http://www.troff.org/history.html
                 (Google is simply amazing)
                 \_ Thanks.  I was kinda hoping MK McKusick had it...
                    \_ I read that he had 44BSD (which is much cooler)
                       \_ RIDE BIKE!  USE CANDLE!
              \_ FYI, you can call the DMV. They won't give out home addr
                 but give other information.

10/7    What do you so-called "real" conservatives have to say about our
        government selling bio-tech weapons to the lowest bidder?
        http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/06/gao.pentagon/index.html
        \_ you mean highest bidder?
        \_ Duh.  Obviously it's stupid and a bad idea and that's why your
           own link says they stopped and never should have in the first place.
           What does one's political philosophy have to do with this?
           \_ Duh, they thought it was a fine idea until they were caught.
              \_ caught?  it's called government stupidity.  read your own
                 link.  the retail value was $46k.  it was just stupid.  know
                 why they did that?  because stupid shit happens in big
                 governments under every administration.  i hope you're not
                 trying to claim this was a conservative plot.
                 \_ and of course you're not bothered that our government
                    will happily supply any whacko with a bio-lab as long
                    as they can pay the discounted price.  If this happened
                    5 years ago there'd be calls for Clinton's head.
                    \_ Yes I am bothered.  Where'd you see that I said it
                       was ok?  You're an idiot and trolling.  Go die.
        \_ supply side trickle down terrorism?

10/7    First exit polls say Davis is toast and Arnold is your governator.
        One out of two isn't bad in politics.
        \_ Nah...it'll be zero of two.

10/7    I'm glad to see so many maoderates and conservatives out there voting
        today.  I can vote my principles without seeing a slime like Davis or
        Cruz be governor.  Nader in '04!
        \_ You should always vote your principles. If you don't then who will?
           \_ almost everyone who voted for any of the top three candidates
              probably voted for `least damage`, not for their principles...
              \_ That means that 80% (or something) of voters could've put
                 their guy in office, but didn't. That's what they get.
        \_ Voting by principle is for suckers!!1!  I voted for the GR0P3R!1
           \_ heh

10/7    And Arnold wins it.  The humiliating spectacle that is the United
        States continues its great march forward!  By the way, Davis sucks
        ass too, California would have been fucked no matter what happened.
        Bah to the whole thing, BAH I say.  Silver lining is that everyone
        seems to have seen right through Ward Connerly's idiotic Prop 54.
        \_ how does Gary Coleman get 1900 votes?
        \_ It does appear that a bunch of Latino voters voted for recall/Cruz
        \_ People go to the polls in record numbers to vote and this is a
           bad thing?! I'd like to see more of it, even if I disagree with
           the results.

10/7    Florida Voters say it is a Conspiracy not to let us vote
        http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligencerreport/rightwing29.html

10/8    Why do you insist on restoring this shit?  Let it die.
        \_ Time to recall the motd censor!
        \_ Some people might actually care about the non-political
           posts (like the light socket stuff, the chinese space
           flight and the blood clots)
        \_ Why do you insist on censoring other people's conversation?  You
           need to go find something better to do with your time than rudely
           interrupt other people's discussions with your childish and useless
           enforcement of your opinion of what topics are allowable on the
           motd and not.  Just go away.  Haven't you read any of the stuff
           you're deleting?  People *want* to talk about it.  If you don't,
           then just go away.  People don't want or need you to decide what
           we can talk about.  Did I say "go away" enough times yet?  No one
           cares if you have an opinion on the topics or not, just stop
           fucking with them.
           \_ Was bored. Liked taunting you.
        \_ Censors:  You can clean it up at the end of the day, but just
           leave stuff up until then okay?