Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:16 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2004/6/16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, ERROR, uid:30824, category id '18005#19.655' has no name! , ] UID:30824 Activity:high
6/15    http://tinyurl.com/3f3xz
        Some of you were sceptical that I saw a Bush commercial on TV so
        to prove it I've uploaded it. Click on BushCommercial.mpg. Oh just
        so that you don't email me on how I recorded it, I used the ATI
        Radeon All-In-Wonder 9000 card   -kchang
        \_ I don't understand. kchang committed a serious offense by using
           an auto motd mudging script. If we don't squish him then the
           by-laws of CSUA is useless. We should stick to our principles
           and keep the squished, squished.
           \_ If you're going to post a "J'accuse," you'll need to sign your
              name to be taken seriously. -anonymous coward
           \_ Uh huh, and the penalty for munging the motd should be a
              permanent expulsion from your elite little club?  He's no worse
              than many others around here who never got squished but would
              if it was a popularity contest.  Justice, tempered by mercy.
              \_ I keep saying this, and people keep ignoring this.  If
                 kchang was squished for auto-munging the motd, why weren't
                 others who were doing the exact same thing? -- ilyas
                 \_ tell us about the stars ilyas!
                    \_ w00t!
                 \_ have you ever considered the possibility that some people
                    don't like you and don't take whatever point you
                    have to make, be it valid or not, seriously?
                    \_ Yes I have.  But not considering the validity of
                       something because of the delivery mechanism is, well,
                       kind of stupid.  Also, the best people who 'don't like
                       me' can do is to not like my 'online personality'.
                       People behave differently face to face (you know, the
                       kinds of social interractions where a poorly worded
                       reply can get you a punch in the face). -- ilyas
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30825 Activity:high
6/16    License question:  There is a library Foo, which is licensed under
        the GPL.  I write a library Bar, which links to Foo.  Can I license Bar
        under the BSD license?  I know that unless Foo is under the LGPL I
        can't link it so code under a more restrictive license, but BSD is less
        restrictive, so can it be linked to code under the regular GPL?
        \_ No.  A BSD license allows one to redistribute software without the
           accompanying source code, which would render the GPL irrelevant.
           \_ But what if I distribute both libraries with source and their
              respective licenses?  I want to permit people to take Bar and
              do whatever they want with it.  Obviously if they want to use it
              with Foo they'd have to respect the GPL.
              \_ You could probably do that (make it abundantly clear that
                 there are two licenses covering the respective code, or
                 otherwise just distribute Bar and tell people to d/l Foo from
                 http:// But unless Bar can function without Foo (say by
                 swapping in a commercially-licensed library that implements
                 the same interface) your library will essentially be GPL,
                 and any attempts to get around that might be seen as
                 misleading.  Note that FreeBSD (and others?) has included
                 GPL code from time to time in their distro (tar, gmake)
                 but that's being slowly phased out because some believe it
                 confuses the issue.  Btw, what code is this?  You might be
                 able to contact the maintainers of Foo and ask them to grant
                 a special license to your project if you've got a good reason.
                 \_ Bar *can* function standalone.  The code is roughly like:
                    Foo: File reader and data processing for Format1
                    Bar: File reader and data processing for Format2
                         Data visualization for Format1 or Format2.
        \_ There are two points of view on this. It depends on whether or
           not the interface to a function can be considered as gpl'ed.
           1. Interfaces are not covered by gpl pov:
              Provided that a pgm can link w/ foo and bar dynamically,
              bar can be released under bsd even if foo is gpl.
           2. Interfaces are covered by gpl pov:
              Since foo is gpl, bar must be released gpl. There is a
              way around this. Write a lgpl wrapper (blatz) to the gpl
              lib (you don't need to wrap every function in foo, just
              the ones you need). Make bar use blatz. Now bar can be
              released under bsd, since it doesn't depend on gpl'ed
              interfaces.
           If this is commerical code, I'd play it safe and go with
           option 2 since gpl idiots are a pita and you don't want
           to deal with them.
           \_ Option 2 doesn't work, because you can't make an LGPL wrapper to
              a GPL'd library.  The wrapper itself must be licensed under the
              GPL too.
                \_ This is not correct. You can create lgpl wrappers for
                   gpl libraries. If you read the lgpl it allows you to
                   dual license your code (gpl does not) so you can have
                   the wrapper avail under gpl and lgpl which solves this
                   problem.
        \_ The problem with all these hokey license schemes is that these sorts
           of issues keep coming up and you'll get multiple answers depending
           on who you talk to.  People are GPLing code without understanding
           what that means.  Why don't they?  Are they stupid or ignorant?  No,
           it is because the GPL is a mess that only became more confused when
           they introduced the LGPL.  Eventually some court will sort the whole
           thing out for good or bad.  Until then, do whatever your concious
           dictates and don't worry about it.  IMO, you should be able to
           release both and provide the license terms for each or maybe have
           some hokey yes/no prompt for accepting the GPL terms or whatever if
           you feel guilty about the other library.  You're treading on
           religious turf so no matter what you do someone is going to say
           you're wrong, evil, or both.
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:30826 Activity:very high
6/16    I just got a new dual proc xeon server that will be replacing an
        old E250 running Solaris. Gentoo is looking pretty good to me, but
        I don't have too much experience w/ Linux/BSD. Instead of igniting
        a flamewar, does anyone have a good URL that might line up the various
        x86 *nixes so that I might figure out which is best for me? I've used
        Debian in the past, but that was a while back.
        \_ What are you going to use it for?  It may not matter which one.  It
           is likely that whatever you or the eventually sysadmin or end users
           are most comfortable with is the 'best' OS for your purposes.
        \_ In the same vein, are there any specific disadvantages to ReiserFS
           over ext3?
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:30827 Activity:high
6/16    In Opera, when I go to the location bar to type in an address, it
        won't let me type in anything.  Please help.
        \_ When was the last time you restarted your computer?  Mac or PC,
           Opera/Mozilla/IE/Safari or whatever the common fix for browser
           weirdness seems to be a good old-fashoned restart.
           \_ didn't work.
              \_ Ok:  OS, platform?
        \_ Unistall, reinstall.
2004/6/16 [Uncategorized] UID:30828 Activity:very high
6/16    Happy 100th Bloomsday!
        \_ I'll bite.  What's Bloomsday?
           \_ Sigh.
              \_ What, you're disappointed that not everyone reads Joyce's
                 pretentious crap?
                 \_ I'm still out here biting.  What is Joyce's pretentious
                    crap?  Thanks.
                    \_ June 16th, 1904 is the date that Stephen Dedulus and
                       Leopold Bloom take their journeys through Dublin in
                       *Ulysses*.  Its celebrated in Ireland as Bloomsday and
                       this is the 100th "anniversary" of the fictional
                       journeys. --!op [thanks for stomping my changes, cunt
                       face.]
                       \_ See, now, if they'd just email me directly, I could
                          tell them that and spare the rest of you all.
                           -- ulysses
2004/6/16 [Politics/Foreign, Computer/SW, Computer/HW/Memory] UID:30829 Activity:nil
6/16    To those of you more familar with the software world than
        international trade in theory and practice, some of the
        arguments made by the anti-aumping people are self-serving
        comments analogous to these ... "people are being raped
        by paying less ... when will they realize they would be
        better off with out more expensive product" ...
            McBride  calls  these arguments  tantamount  to a  death
            sentence  for  a  multibillion-dollar software  industry
            that has helped propel the United States to economic and
            technological leadership  in the digital  era. In March,
            he  sent a letter  to every  member of  Congress warning
            that Linux  threatens the country's  economic well-being
            and  even  its  national  security.  "Each  Open  Source
            installation   displaces   or   pre-empts  a   sale   of
            proprietary,    licensable    and    copyright-protected
            software,"  he said  in  his letter.  "This means  fewer
            jobs, less  software revenue and  reduced incentives for
            software companies to innovate." [http://csua.org/u/7s9]
         Also to the fellow who raised the example of memory chips,
         find me a case. I am not saying there has never been such
         a case [I dont know] but I would bet nobody has ever won a
         dumping case. --psb
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:30830 Activity:high
6/16    Trying to get XP onto a dual-boot laptop witout cd or floppy drive.
        Is there a way to get some sort of XP installer to net boot?  RIS
        is not an option.  Or does anyone know of any mini (<128mb) installer
        images for XP that will fit on/boot from a USB key?  -John
        \_ You could get a larger USB key.  You could get a USB CDROM.  You
           could do a PXE boot if your laptop supports that.  I don't think
           you can put the floppy boot images on a key, not because it won't
           boot them but because I don't think there's an option to do a net
           install like that.  I think the USB CDROM is the easiest thing to
           do.   Or maybe you could put the XP cd files on the HD on an NTFS
           or DOS partition, boot from floppy images on the cd key if your
           laptop supports booting from the key and then tell it to use the
           hd for the rest of the files.  The last thing I can think of is
           to move the hd to another machine, install to that HD, then move
           it back.
           \_ Well this is what I'm wondering--is there a decent way of
              making a PXE image out of an XP installer CD?  That's what I'm
              having a ton of trouble finding.  -John
              \_ I honestly don't know.  It's a really odd thing to do.  Why
                 not just go get a cheap usb cdrom?
                 \_ No such thing here.  I found this though:
                    http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder  -John
                    \_ No USB cdroms?  I've got one on my desk.  They exist.
2004/6/16 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Activities, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:30831 Activity:very high 66%like:34588
6/16    KISS MY ASS, LAKERS!!!
        \_ Yah -- it made my day when the lakers went down in flames.
        \_ No one cares.  Sorry.  Sports just aren't important.  Have some
           bread with your circuses.
           \_ Speak for yourself, geekboy.  How's that wedgie doing?
              \_ How's the bread taste?  Best circus I've seen since the
                 one last week!  Pass me a beer and a joint!
                 \_ Bread?  Dunno, don't watch the games.  Don't smoke out
                    either, so you're on your own there, too, Mr. Pothead Dork.
                    I don't think you're as smart as you think you are.
                    Perhaps you'd better stick to EQ.
                 \_ thank you, NERFAMC
                    \_ Ok, so you drink, you don't get laid, can't identify
                       a bread product and watch a lot of sports.  Big winner!
                       \_ heh, let's see: assumption, projection, assumption,
                          poor reading comprehension. 0/4.  Big Winner!  Keep
                          trying, Dorkie.
                          \_ *laugh* ok, how about this: you're anal, boring,
                             drink, don't get laid with women, watch a lot of
                             sports, like bread products and take it up the
                             ass from your boyfriend twice a week.
           \_ I might take your moral superiority seriously if I thought you
              were in the peace corps, or donating all your free time to a
              non-profit, but in reality I'm sure you're just some geek into
              videogames, comic books, and sci-fi who just doesn't like sports.
              \_ What moral superiority?  I never said I was better.  I said
                 sports aren't important.  Sorry, no vgs, cbs or sci-fi.
        \_ The only thing better than watching the Lakers lose was watching
           the Red Sox kick the Yankees' asses in New York.
2004/6/16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:30832 Activity:moderate
6/16    Russert on Meet the Press, reading from GAO report:
        "As a result of the increased poppy production and in-country heroin
        production, greater resources were available to Afghan criminal
        networks and others at odds with the central government. The
        International Monetary Fund and Afghanistan's minister of Finance
        have stated that the potential exists for Afghanistan to become
        a 'narcostate' in which all legitimate institutions are infiltrated
        by the power and wealth of drug traffickers."
        Karzai agreed with him.  Can we start calling this a failure yet?
        http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5202007
        \_ Oh no!  There is *potential* for bad things to happen!  It is a
           quagmire!  It is Viet Nam all over again!  Yikes!  There are drugs
           being grown in a place where drugs have historically always been
           grown!  What is the world coming to!  The sky!  The sky!  It is
           faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiinnnnnng!!
           \_ We fucked up in Afghanistan.  Poppy production is up.  We had
              an opportunity to make a real difference there, and instead we
              left the country to rot so that we could prosecute a useless
              invasion in Iraq.  You need to wake up.
              \_ I'm not the same poster as above, but, Do I think we
                 could have done a better job in Afganistan? Yes.  If the
                 could have done a better job in Afganistan? Yes.  Is the
                 sky falling? No. Geez, it would really help your
                 arguments if they didn't all sound like they came from
                 the Book of Revelation.
                 \_ Nice straw man, but I said nothing about Armageddon or the
                    sky falling.  I was simply pointing out that we've fucked
                    up in Afghanistan.  Nobody is paying attention to this.
                    \_ The point is, calling it a failure is a tad
                       premature.  I apologize for using Hyperbole.
                 \_ There is no Book of "Revelations"
                    \_ My bible sure has one. You know, the chapter at the end.
                       \_ Ah, he's being picky.  At least in the King
                          James version it's called "Revelation" or "The
                          Revelation of St. John the Divine"  Leave it to
                          someone on the motd to get picky about a stray
                          's'.
              \_ Yes, we should have razed the poppy fields.  Instead we paid
                 for the harvest instead of letting it get out into illegal
                 drug production.  Unfortunately that turned it into a safe
                 cash crop.
                 \_ Yeah, well-meaning governmental descisions often have
                    bizarre economic effects.
                 \_ whats wrong with that?  aren't you in favor of legalizing
                    drugs?
2004/6/16 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30833 Activity:insanely high
6/16    I have about 500 Gigs of stuff that I need to backup on a monthly
        basis. I anticipate that our content will grow to 1000Gig in the
        next year or two. Should I just get 2-4 big HDs or should I get
        tape backup device? Opinions?                   -newbie admin
        \_ Do you need to back up the entire 500g each month or just an
           initial cut and a small amount of data changing each month?  500g
           per month is an insane amount of tapes.  500g every 6 months plus
           5-10 gigs a month is fine for tapes.
        \_ Get hard drives and a fast network.
        \_ TAPE BACKUP IS DEAD! External 250 Gig drive costs $250. Two
           would be $500, which is still much cheaper (and faster) than
           any tape backup system out there. Get more as you need them.
        \_ Just curious, I know the lifespan of a hard drive is 2-6 years.
           How is it with tape?  Is it about the same schedule for both
           media when copying the old backups to new hardware?
           \_ No, MTBF for a single ATA HD is about 68 years.  Much higher
              for a quality Seagate SCSI or FC drive.
              \_ My personal experience suggests that number is wildly
                 optimistic.
                 \_ You aren't supposed to play soccer with them.
        \_ 640K is all anybody should ever need.
           \_ Sigh, just like Gore/internet and ketchup/vegetables.
        \_ The new marketing buzzword is D2D2T, which stands for "Disk to
           disk to tape."  You setup a big raid unit to backup to as fast
           as you can, then backup that onto a tape at a more leisurely rate
           and then send the tapes offsite.  The middle disk will provide
           fast and easy restore to recent stuff while the offsite tape
           will provide long term archive.
           \_ But will D2D2T leverage B2B and B2C strategies to increase
              OEM market share at high levels?
              \_ Yes.  It is called the Netapp Rxxx series of NAS appliances.
2004/6/16 [Reference/Languages] UID:30834 Activity:high
6/16    What is the origin/meaning of the word "Ars", and why is it so
        popular among geeks (Ars Technica, Ars Digita, etc)?  Who first used
        it?  Who first used it contemporarily?
        \_ There was a mid 80s RPG called Ars Magica.  I always thought
           that had something to do with it.  (And yes I know Ars Magica is
           still around.)  -aspo
        \_ It's latin, it means "art or craft," it's been used ever since Latin
           was around (say around 2000+ years).
           \- off the top of my head see ovid ars amatoria. but i have the
              feeling i am missing one of the other big "ars" in the latin
              canon. --psb
                \_ ars republica
        \_ Arse!
2004/6/16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:30835 Activity:kinda low
6/16    Anyone here worked in a business consulting company like McKinsey,
        Accenture, or the like?  Please share your experience.  Thanks.
        \_ My girlfriend works for BCG, which I think is one of the better
           ones.  They pay a lot of money to young people straight out of
           college (so they don't really have any work experience to measure
           themselves against), put them in a pool of other young over-
           achievers, and tell them they're the best.  That's the good part--
           the bad thing is that they start thinking it normal to work 12 hour
           days, that there are no real jobs outside of the consulting outfit,
           and that they are some sort of loser if they get out of the "up
           or out" system.  Only the really strong ones manage to avoid a
           total burnout.  To be fair, a lot of the people I know at her
           outfit are of above average intelligence, except when it comes to
           saying "no" to being shat upon at work by managers and customers.
           I also think that you have to be a singular kind of defective to
           survive for long enough to get into senior management, so that
           breeds some pretty evil culture.  All the people I know who "left"
           Accenture, PWC & co. were inevitably totally burned out and totally
           dissatisfied at having wasted a few years of their lives.  -John
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30836 Activity:high
6/16    How do I make bash display possibilities on first tab, like tcsh?
        I hate it that I have to press TAB twice to get the completion
        list. Thanks.
        \_ type tcsh, when you're done, type exit.
           \_ Thank you for the most useless answer I've seen today. :)
              \_ Change your shell, stop using stupid shells.
                 \_ Change your shitty attitude, learn some manners.
2004/6/16 [Uncategorized] UID:30837 Activity:nil
6/16    C-64 hip hop:
        http://netilium.org/~mad/markvii
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30838 Activity:very high
6/16    It's not in any way against CSUA policy to have procmail check
        your quota each time it runs, is it?
        \_ Why would it be?
           \_ I think the quota file might be a bit of a chokepoint for the
              filesystem; probably bad if everybody were to do it.  Perhaps
              try du -d1 instead?
              \_ du -d1 is way more impact than quota.  -tom
              \_ Yeah, wow.  Use your head: with quotas on every filesystem
                 op results in a quota check; how can it be high overhead?
                 \_ Please correct me if/where I'm wrong: quota files are
                    maintained at the root of each file system, and,
                    empirically, I've noticed that quota results are cached:
                     quota -v; rm reallyBigFile; quota -v; sleep; quota -v;
                    I imagine this cache resides at the FS root as well, so
                    hundreds of users x hundreds of spams = 1000s of writes
                    to the quota cache = possibly slow disk access.
                    Different cases possible with softupdates and/or
                    kernel-based memory cache.
                    \_ Quotas are kept in memory, in the kernel; you can
                       access them with the quotactl system call.  There
                       are quota files at the root of each filesystem too,
                       but they're only used to initialize the kernel's
                       quota information at boot time.

                       Since it's all stored in memory, updating the quota
                       information when you create and remove files is
                       trivial.  You only see delays because soft updates
                       is delaying the actual writes to your files, and thus
                       delaying the quota updates too -- on systems without
                       soft updates, quotas update instantly.  --mconst
                    \_ you could have verified this yourself by using the
                       "time" command to see that du -d1 takes an order of
                       magnitude longer than quota, instead of sounding off
                       like a moron.  -tom
                       \_ great way to encourage discussion.  you rock!
                    \_ That suggests that although writing/deleting lots of
                       spam could load the system (which we already know)
                       lots of people reading the quota file will probably
                       not be a big load, or at least not any worse than
                       reading a file of spam-filtering rules.
        \_ depends on your personality
        \_ I'll take this discussion as "No, it's not against policy".
           \_ you can take it that way (i would) but just be sure you don't
              end up a hoser; that's the policy you need to worry about
              here. - erikk
2004/6/16 [Recreation/Dating] UID:30839 Activity:very high
6/15    Dear motd guys who have seen the movie Stepford Wives. Do you prefer
        a genetically altered obedient wife who cleans/cooks for you and is
        good in bed, or do you prefer the challenges of having a real,
        non-engineered companion? Which one would you be happier in the short
        AND long term, and why? It seems to me that the message from the movie
        is that the former is bad, but I am not convinced.
           \- or would you prefer to be hooked up to a machine that let
              you switch between them in a dream state you never woke up from.
        \_ I believe in the long term, the dominating term isn't house cleaning
           or good sex, but companionship.  A stepford wife is as boring as a
           cockroach. -- ilyas
        \_ the cook/clean thing seems irrelevant, since the cost of a
           non-genetically modified old fashioned maid would be far far
           less, so you have to assume that anyone who could afford the
           Stepford Wife already has their housework issues worked out.
        \_ Both, that's why women like vibrators and going out to nice dinners.
        \_ I for one would prefer the genetically engineered wife.
        \_ How can a woman be bad in bed? Doesn't the guy do everything? How
           can one be bad?
           \_ If you're doing everything, she's bad in bed.
              \_ He shoots!  He scores!  The crowd is going wild!
           \_ I just reread 1984 and there is a good description of how BAD his
              wife was in bed. If it seems like a chore, a requirement for
              procreation, that's generally not the best thing in the world.

              Also, on top of compatibility, there are lots of techniques that
              can be employed. Some 80 year old woman on oxygen has a show on
              technique. I wonder how good she is in the sack.
        \_ The climax of the movie is reached when we discover that Mike
           is a creation from our basic needs that we lack in modern
           society. The creator of Mike explains that in today's society
           we're so busy with our work that we have no time to take care
           of our family and to have quality time, and that the creation
           is an attempt to go back to the "good 'ol days". However,
           the secondary message is that even the good 'ol days is not
           perfect, that a person's happiness (namely, the husbands) should
           not come at an expense of others (the slave working wives
           in the 50s). Since we can't have it all, now we're now stuck with
           what we have, and THAT, is the whole point of the movie.
        \_ I for one prefer the unpredictability and the excitement you get
           from a real wife. That way she can run off with another guy and
           take away your money from child support and alimony. Yeah.
           \_ BDG, is that you? --BDG #2 fan
           \_ I have a stupid question. If she runs away with another guy,
              does she still get half of your money? I mean if she wants a
              divorce because she likes this other guy better, how does it
              usually end up? She still takes half of the money?
              \_ In CA, yes.  In other states, it varies.  This is a "no fault"
                 divorce state.
              \_ Yes. It doesn't matter what her reason is. She is
                 entitled to half of the assets earned over the course of
                 the marriage plus child support, if applicable. She may
                 also get alimony - one year for every year you were
                 married.
                 \_ Is it the same case if the wife is working and the man
                    is not?
                 \_ what if you get married in one state, move to CA, then
                    move away from CA? how is it determined if she gets the $?
                    \_ Where did you file for divorce?  You can't file in a
                       state which you are not a resident of, AFAIK.
        \_ Why not just buy a RealDoll and pay a maid?  I mean, really, if the
           idea of a Stepford Wife appeals to you, you don't really want a
           relationship with a real human being.  Get the toy and the service
           and call it even.
           \_ but a RealDoll is anything but real. It is not interactive.
              It does not shout "$#^$#S me harder!!"
                \_ More to the point, a stepford wife isn't either.  She is
                   interractive like a video game, or a recording.  Actually,
                   she is an it.  It may shout all sorts of things, but they
                   are not real.
2004/6/16 [Uncategorized] UID:30840 Activity:high
6/15    Okay, I'll bite.  What the f#$@ does NERFAMC stand for?
        \_ Not Even Remotely Funny Anonymous Motd Comic.
           If you search for 'NERFAMC' the only google hit is from the
           motd archive.
           \_ OMG LOL WTF!  Actually, http://www.wtfomg.com
              \_ I am typing this by blind-touch.  The goggles, they do
                 nothing!
        \_ It's just tom being pissy, childish and attempting to be insulting.
2004/6/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30841 Activity:insanely high
6/16    Time magazine this week:
        http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040621/faith_poll/3.html
        Does President Bush's religious faith make him a strong leader?
        Bush supporters:   85% yes
        Arch liberal Kerry supporters:  15% yes
        If the presidential election were held today, for whom would you vote?
        Bush:   49%
        Arch liberal Kerry:  48%
        \_ The Reagan bump rears its ugly head.  Wonder how long it will last.
           Now, where are all those people that were saying polls mean nothing
           at this point?  Can I get a repeat, please?  Or do they only
           mean nothing at this point when your guy is behind?
           \_ Polls mean nothing until after the GOP convention.  Dukakis
              had a similar lead in June, see where it got him.
           \_ Reagan bump?  How can reminding us of Reagan give anyone but
              Kerry a bump?  We all hate Reagan, don't we?
              arch liberal Kerry a bump?  We all hate Reagan, don't we?
              \_ We all hate Reagan? Not according to the media.
                 \_ http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2004/06/14
        \_ Kerry's basically off the radar lately. Even negative Bush news is
           better than no news. Kerry's too boring and impersonal to compete.
        \_ Arch liberal Kerry's basically off the radar lately. Even negative
           Bush news is better than no news. Arch liberalKerry's too boring
           and impersonal to compete.
           \_ Bzzzt!  Everything is off the radar lately because the media
              went "REAGAN!  REAGAN!  REAGAN!  OMG WTF!!!!!@#!@#2@!!11!" for
              like a week.  You know things are bad when NPR runs more Reagan
              stories than Fox News.
              \_ Kerry was out of the news before Reagan died.  What has Kerry
                 said or done in the last 2 weeks?  Bush stopped doing fund-
                 raisers in _APRIL_!  Kerry hasn't been doing his job as
                 Senator.  He hasn't been doing much of anything but raising
                 cash.  Between his personal efforts and groups like http://moveon.org
                 Kerry has more money than Bush yet it is never enough for him.
                 \_ Kerry has more money than Bush? Where the fuck did you come
                    from? The amount of money has has pales in comparison to the
                    hundreds of millions that Bush has. That's why you see lots of
                    Bush shit commercial on TV. All he has is money. Give me a
                    fucking break.
                    \_ Yeah, Bush has 5 times as much money on hand as Kerry
                       presently.  However, Kerry is raising money at nearly
                       twice the rate of Bush and just raised something like
                       a record $100 million in 3 months.  So maybe that's
                       what above guy was thinking of.  He's still a dumbass
                       though.  --!the above guy
                       \_  MORON!  ALL DEMOCRATS WANT IS TO TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY
                           AND SODOMIZE YOUR DOG!!!!
              \_ Arch liberal Kerry was out of the news before Reagan died.
                 What has Kerry said or done in the last 2 weeks?  Bush
                 stopped doing fund- raisers in _APRIL_!  Arch liberal Kerry
                 hasn't been doing his job as Senator.  He hasn't been doing
                 much of anything but raising cash.  Between his personal
                 efforts and groups like http://moveon.org Arch liberal Kerry has
                 more money than Bush yet it is never enough for him.
                 \_ Arch liberal Kerry has more money than Bush? Where the
                    fuck did you come from? The amount of money has has pales
                    in comparison to the hundreds of millions that Bush has.
                    That's why you see lots of Bush shit commercial on TV. All
                    he has is money. Give me a fucking break.
                    \_ Yeah, Bush has 5 times as much money on hand as arch
                       liberal Kerry presently.  However, arch liberal Kerry
                       is raising money at nearly twice the rate of Bush and
                       just raised something like a record $100 million in 3
                       months.  So maybe that's what above guy was thinking
                       of.  He's still a dumbass though.  --!the above guy
                       \_ I am sorry for being a dumbass.  However, I can do
                          math.  Kerry+moveon.org $$$ >>> Bush $$$.
                          \_ what about Kerry+moveon vs. Bush + his PACs?
                             I've seen no evidence that Kerry and related
                             groups have more money than Bush and related
                             groups.  -tom
                 \_ Quite amusing to hear a Bush supporter complain about
                    how much money Kerry is rasing. Bush is the most
                    venal presidency in history, bar none. Kerry isn't
                    even close. Kerry took last week off in respect to
                    the country and President Reagan, that is why you
                    haven't heard much from him. He did not campaign
                    or fundraise in that time.
                          math.  Arch liberal Kerry+moveon.org $$$ >>> Bush$$$.
                          \_ what about arch liberal Kerry+moveon vs. Bush +
                             his PACs?  I've seen no evidence that arch
                             liberal Kerry and related groups have more money
                             than Bush and related groups.  -tom
                             \_ What about it?  Arch liberal Kerry+others >>
                                Bush + others.  You haven't seen it?  Have you
                                *looked*?
                 \_ Quite amusing to hear a Bush supporter complain about how
                    much money arch liberal Kerry is rasing. Bush is the most
                    venal presidency in history, bar none. Kerry isn't even
                    close. Arch liberal Kerry took last week off in respect to
                    the country and President Reagan, that is why you haven't
                    heard much from him. He did not campaign or fundraise in
                    that time.
                    \_ I'm not complaining.  I'm stating a fact.  If he is
                       raising more money then he has earned it in some way.
                       No one is giving anyone money for nothing.
           \_ Kerry said that Dubya shouldn't have asked the Pope to
              influence Roman Catholic leaders in the U.S. on the abortion
                       \_ Earned it == awarding government contracts for it.
                          Your adding of "arch liberal" in front of every
                          mention of Kerry is simply childish.
           \_ Arch liberal Kerry said that Dubya shouldn't have asked the Pope
              to influence Roman Catholic leaders in the U.S. on the abortion
              and same-sex marriage issues.
              \_ Ok, and?  You posted this for some reason?
        \_ I don't believe the second survey.  The 'undecided' number is never
           that low.
           \_ The polls are really meaningless until after the conventions, if
              you ask me.
              \_ Or really after a few debates.  But it gives us something to
                 talk about in the mean time.
        \_ Vietcong and Sandinista Vets for Kerry!!
        \_ Vietcong and Sandinista Vets for Arch Liberal Kerry!!
           \_ And Cuba and our friends in NK, too.
              \_"Either you're with us or you're a godless commie" -GWB
                 \_ URL?  The Vietcong, Sandinistas, Cubans and NKans have all
                    come out in favor of Kerry.  thanks for playing.
                    come out in favor of arch liberal Kerry.  thanks for
                    playing.
        \_ Still too close to call in all the polls.
        \_ Too soon, padawan.  The election isn't for another 4.5 months.
           Expect the ratcheting of campaign volume in early September and
           full-court blitz by middle of October.  Those are the numbers that
           will tell the story.
           \_ If you checked the URL, "Master" jedi, you would see that
              only one question deals with who will win between Kerry and
              Bush.  The focus of the survey is on religious views between
              Kerry and Bush supporters.
           \_ If you checked the URL, "Master" jedi, you would see that only
              one question deals with who will win between arch liberal Kerry
              and Bush.  The focus of the survey is on religious views between
              arch liberal Kerry and Bush supporters.
              \_ So Bush supporters are conservative and arch liberal arch
                 liberal Kerry's supporters are God-less.  We knew that.  If
                 that was the only reason to post this, there was no reason to
                 post this.
2004/6/16 [Transportation/Car] UID:30842 Activity:very high
6/16    Dammit!  Why won't Daimler sell the Roadster version of the SMART here?
        http://www.smart.com
        \_ 2006
           \_ Nope.  2006 is only for the US variant of the forfour.  According
              to the FAQ:
              "We plan to launch a variant of the smart forfour onto the
              US-American market in 2006. However we are not planning to
              introduce the current model range (smart city-coupe,
              cabrio, crossblade, roadster, roadster-coupe) and smart
              forfour there." Maybe they think they can't meet US crash
              safety standards on the other models?  The forfour is definitely
              the ugly pick of the litter.  Still, 60 mpg on a conventional
              gas engine is nothing to sneeze at.
              Also, great pic of the Roadster version:
              http://www.mbnz.org/gallery/pics/26_1248263_616200454535PM.JPG
              \_ holy shit!  those are some ass ugly cars!
        \_ I saw one in Paris last week. BTW, France's smart site features a
           girl in a hot red miniskirt.
           \_ I hate those French.
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30843 Activity:nil
6/16    The following is a chunk of my .procmailrc.  It works great,
        but when I added the if clause below, it seems to act as
        if the condition is true, even when it's not.  Anyone
        have any idea why?

        set usage = `quota | grep digital | awk '{print $2}'`
        set quota = `quota | grep digital | awk '{print $4}'`
        set space = `expr $quota - $usage`
        set space = `expr $space \* 1000`  # convert from kilobytes to bytes
        set limit = `expr $space / 20`     # limit is 5% of remaining space
        if ($space < 200000) then        # if under 200k of space, just
          set limit = 0                  # put in inbox
        endif

        # BEGIN RECIPES

        :0fw
        | spamc

        :0
        * > $limit
        {
        :0c
        !myaccount@yahoo.com
        :0:
        | ${FORMAIL} -A"X-Folder: TOO_BIG_INBOX_ONLY" >>${DEFAULT}
        }
2004/6/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30844 Activity:very high
6/16    Did any of you convert from: Liberal to Conservative or
        Conservative to Liberal?
        \_ libertatian to liberal
           \_ what's the url for the libertatians?  sounds interesting!
        \_ Highschool: conservative ->
           Berkeley: "I don't want your fucking fliers" ->
           Post-collegiate: Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft/PatriotAct/ReligiousRight
                scares me silly.
        \_ High School: Conservative/Republican (especially on foreign
           diplomacy) -> College: Libertarian (minus Lyndon) -> post-college:
           Liberal.
        \_ High School: Far Left -> College: Liberal -> post-college: Moderate
           to Liberal.  My HS was the time of Newt Gingrinch et al.  In college
           I decided I had nothing in common with the BAMN and ISO, etc.
           My political movements have mostly been due to exposure to political
           archetypes.
           \_ you just described my experience exactly.
        \_ liberal --> conservative
           \_ what made you convert?
              \_ going to berkeley.
                 \_ There seemed to be a pattern in the early 90s: enter
                    doe-eyed and open-minded; get blasted by liberal profs
                    and rabid Young Republicans; exit moderate as long as you
                    don't touch my money.
                    \_ I only met 1 YR and he annoyed me.  --doe-eyed->consrv
                    \_ Berkeley Republicans are very amusing - they have this
                       whole "Help!  Help!  I'm being repressed!  Now you
                       see the violence inherent in the system!" thing going
                       on, but they are without fail upper-middle class white
                       kids with plenty of prospects, inside connections,
                       and money from daddy.
                       \_ Way to label!  Good smear!  How many have you met?
        \_ high school: blank.  berkeley: heard it all.  post-cal: conservative
2004/6/16 [Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:30845 Activity:nil
6/16    The lovely town of Dildo, Canada.
        http://www.aroundthebay.ca/profile/Dildo/dil.asp
        The humble burg of Fucking, Austria
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucking%2C_Austria
2004/6/16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30846 Activity:high
6/16    Very cute, kchang.  You've tied my home and work IPs to me and
        flip me off with your motd archive, then redirect to http://hustler.com.
        It's nice to know your sociopathy and pettiness haven't mellowed.
        --scotsman
        \_ it's his site.  he can do what he wants with it.
        \_ Perhaps you're a good candidate to explain (to an impartial
           observer) the kchang saga.  I don't know him, his archive is
           cool, but the story as I see it reminds me of Giuliani-- nobody
           likes him until the last minute, and then he's a hero.  What
           got him squished (be more specific than "motd munging")?  What
           got him restored?  I'd also invite kchang (and kchang #n fans)
           to respond with their versions.  Thank you. Please don't delete
           this thread.
           \_ who cares?  it seems to me that it is a private administrative
              matter.  a previous politburo made a decision.  a later
              politburo rescinded the earlier decision.  so what?
              \_ So what?  Pure tabloid sensibility on a slow day.  What did
                 he do to get squished?  Who did it?  How'd he get back?
                 Who did that?
                 \_ shrug, I guess it's something to talk about but I dont
                    know the answers either.
        \_ The motd will not be truly Great until it is only kchang, ilyas,
           psb, and tom yelling at each other.
           \_ I think the only people from the above list I used to yell at
              are tom and myself.  These days I just ignore tom, and yell at
              myself in private. -- ilyas
        \_ So when is tpc getting his account back?
           \_ And dickylee!
              \_ I believe dickylee got his account back, but was squished
                 again in the last year or so.
        \_ I think everyone suspected of wanting to squish him is on his
           blacklist.                           -kchang's friend
           \_ sorry to hear that scotsman. I guess you're on his blacklist.
              If you want I can vouch for you, would you prefer to be
              redirected to another porn site?          -concerned sodan
2004/6/16 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30847 Activity:moderate
6/16    Has anyone used one of the new 10,000RPM SATA hard drives?  How do
        they compare to a mainstream 10,000RPM SCSI?
        \_ a friend of mine has a raptor.  says it is dead quiet and super
           fast.  my 10k scsi was so loud i stopped using it but was also
           very fast.
2004/6/16 [Uncategorized] UID:30848 Activity:moderate
6/16    Bloomsday?  Ars?  Berkeley really has given up and all it produces
        are semi-trained monkeys.
        \_ I fail to parse your complaint.
        \_ w00t!
        \_ whatever.  you just look petty and small instead of being the big
           uber genius you want to be.  you'd explain if your education was
           superior to your ego.
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30849 Activity:very high
6/16    How do I convert the following to be used in a Bourne shell in
        procmailrc?
           if ($space < 200000) then
              set limit = 0
           endif
        The purpose is to make sure that all mail goes to my inbox, rather
        than mail folders if I'm nearing my quota.  $space is how much disk
        space I have available.  $limit determines if a message gets
        filtered, or just goes to the inbox by default.  If limit is
        set to zero, then all messages go to Inbox.
        I tried:
            if test $space -lt 200000; then
              limit = 0
            fi
        But I keep getting
           procmail: Skipped "$space -lt 200000; then "
        in the log.  I'm sure the answer to this is trivial to someone
        out there, so please help.  -frustrated
        \_ Don't do it in procmail; just write a script to calculate the right
           value for $limit, and call it in backquotes from your procmailrc.
           \_ Good idea.  I'll try it.  -hopefully soon to be not frustrated
              \_ Thanks.  Works like a charm.  -relieved
2004/6/16 [Uncategorized] UID:30850 Activity:nil
6/16    Why is my .spamassassin/bayes_toks growing? It's almost 3MB now.
        \_ because you keep getting spam.
        \_ Perhaps you should learn what Bayesian filtering is.  Failing that,
           the simple answer is it's a growing list of words found in your
           mailbox.
           \_ ifile trims its database to reduce seldom used words.
2004/6/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:30851 Activity:high
6/16    California Ordered to Refund Enron $270M
        http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/energy_refunds
        WTF? Can I blame Bush for this??
        \_ Sorry, no.  We have to refund them $270m so we can get our $2.#b
           back from them.  We can blame FERC for not ok'ing our $9b complaint
           and Ahnuld for not following up on that.
        \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
        \_ what about Robert Rubin?
        \_ Yes, all bad things are Bush's fault.  All good things come from
           Kerry and higher taxes.
           arch liberal Kerry and higher taxes.
           \_ Well someone's gotta pick up the tabs. So you think we can just
              cut taxes for the fucking rich, blowing billions in a fucking
              war for the rich, and then all the debt will just disappear?
              \_ Cut spending if you don't have enough money?
                 \_ good idea.  let's start with cutting the war in Iraq.
                    \_ If you were serious you'd be an isolationist like most
                       real conservatives.  You want a big army to go into
                       foreign countries *you* feel should be invaded.
              \_ let's just save up for the war in the USA
2004/6/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:30852 Activity:high
6/16    Well, I tried to install Fedora Linux 2 on my second hard drive so
        I could dual boot.  Linux works (I'm using it now) but XP no
        longer boots.  Hmmm... The file system and such is all still
        there, so it must just be that Linux messed up the boot sector
        trying to allow for dual boot.  I have a winXP CD and I can run
        rescue console and get access.  Does anyone know how to get it
        to fix the boot sector?  (In the old days of dos, it was "sys c:"
        now... I dunno)
        \_ fdisk /mbr. GRUB should have handled above. hmm...
        \_ Look at fedora2-related articles and discussions on slashdot.
           This seems to be a common problem and it has to do something
           with 2.6 kernels and such. BTW, I dual-boot XP and Fedora and
           I didn't have this problem after installing FC2.
           \_ Yeah, I've been reading the bugzilla report
              http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=115980
              I'm surprised such a big problem made it into the "stable"
              release.  Sheesh
              \_ Because they don't give a shit about your windows system.  If
                 MS had done the same thing the slashdot tinfoil hat crowd
                 would be screaming.
                 \_ MS does the same thing, all the time.
                    \_ So all the time 2k,xp, etc, will wipe out your linux
                       boot partition?
2004/6/16-17 [Recreation/Humor] UID:30853 Activity:kinda low
6/16    http://slate.msn.com/id/2102299
        "The model for Garfield was Charles Schulz's Peanuts, but not the
        funny Peanuts of that strip's early years.  Rather, Davis wanted to
        mimic the sunny, humorless monotony of Peanuts' twilight years."
        \_ The man is dead.  Get over it.
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/21    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:16 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>