Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:May:29 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/5/29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:28570 Activity:very high
5/28    To those who don't understand Lila's request, have you any idea
        what's going on out there on the job market?  I'm happy you were
        at a nice stable place during this fun, but clearly you have no
        clue about the situation for many.
        \_ Yes, I do.  I've turned down offers and killed second round
           interviews at places that sucked from the first round.  Berkeley
           *should* have prepared you for this.  Either it has and you don't
           see it or your degree was wasted on you.  --has job, clue, offers
           \_ I knew many people with your arrogance, up till the point
              where they got hit by the downturn.  They're humble now.
              And less willing to tell others how they should be.
              \_ pshaw, been laid off twice during the down turn.  I spent the
                 good times learning stuff and saving money.  --job,clue,offers
              \_ sounds like have have many talents, but one of them isn't
                 humility. some day it might be good to add that to your skill
                 set. on a related note, one hiring mgr got so sick of the
                 arrogance of berkeley and stanfurd grads that he won't even
                 take a look at resumes from these schools anymore.
                 \_ humility is for the inept.  the rest of us are doing great,
                    thanks.  as far as your idiotic HM who won't even look at
                    resumes from top schools: if you only look at mediocre
              \_ The Book is the only Book I need to keep my life on track. If
                 you let Jesus into your heart, you'll find true happiness as
                 well.  Only The Lord can set you free and make you happy both
                 in this life and the next.
                    resumes you'll only get mediocre employees.  you work at
                    pacific bell, maybe?  a bank?  city government?  the HM is
                    from where?  cal state hayward?
        \_ there are also those who are sick of the tech industry and just
           something different, even mindless, just to pay the bills.
           \_ this is a good time to sit down and read "your money or your
              life" by dominguez and robins.  It changed my life.  I view the
              purpose of work completely different now.  And have a goal when
              working.  It's all about the money, but it's not about what
              money can buy.  Read the book.  I hope it changes your life
              as well.
              \_ the real lesson from this post is that what you need to do
                 is sit down and write some dipshit selfhelp book so that
                 other unemployed suckers all give you money and you never
                 have to work again.
                 \_ as usual, hot headed youngsters jump to conclusions.
                    You're a gamer aren't you?  Loser.
                    \_ I didn't write the thing you're replying to, but I'm
                       probably several years older than you and I agree with
                       the "gamer's" statement.  What does gaming have to do
                       with having a real job or a real life anyway?  You've
                       got some issues to work out, son.
              \_ work was *always* about the money.  what else could it be for?
                \_ I need money to pay rent, but I'd be willing to make
                   a lot less money to do stuff I love, or to do stuff I like
                   but work less hours and with less stress.  Money is nice
                   but there is a lot more to life than buying nice toys -aspo
                   \_ yeah but there's no reason to work other than money.
                        \_you have a very uplifting view of social change.
                          \_ it has nothing to do with social change.  are you
                             trying to get us all a 15 hour work week?
              \_ oops forgot something else.  In addition to "your money or
                 your life" I also recommend "getting a life..." by Blix
                 and heitmiller.  It's written by a couple who went through
                 the steps described in the dominguez book.  Also very good.
                 \_ Thanks for posting this.
                 \_ I highly recommend this book. "You money or your life"
                    is more about not getting screwed, and maximizing your
                    earnings, which is still compatible with finding a job you
                    are happy with, alla this book. -tcmoore
2003/5/29 [Uncategorized] UID:28571 Activity:nil
5/28    So is Lila's job hunt the only thing worth talking about now?  I see
        all other non-Lila inspired topics have been erased multiple times.
        If Lila was "Bob" or "John" or "Joe" would we all be so 'concerned'
        about helping poor Lila figure out what to do with her life?  I
        suspect not.
2003/5/29-30 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:28572 Activity:moderate
5/29    So whatever happened to tjb?  Did he graduate?  Is he working now?
        Grad school?
        \_ Last I heard, no: he went to University of Illinois or something,
           got arrested, got kicked out of there too, got sent to an
           inpatient psychiatric ward, continues to send email to Pres Bush
           with 'advice'.  You can probably google and get the same info.
           \_ damn, it's hard to figure out if this is a joke or not.
              \_ I don't think it is. -geordan
                 \_ yeah but you can't be sure.  he wouldn't be the first Cal
                    person I know to end up in the psych ward.
        \_ -pld
        \_ I think you csua people should be ashamed of yourselves,
           pushing that poor man over the edge like you did.
           \_ I'll add it to my resume.
2003/5/29 [Uncategorized] UID:28573 Activity:nil
5/29    motd poll.  whom would Phil date?
        \_ lila: .
           idontknowwhatthefuckyouretalkingabout: .
           Alyssa P. Hacker:
           \_ Phil Nunez, obviously! *hits with clue stick*
           kchang: .
           the potsticker thief: .
           tjb: .
2003/5/29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:28574 Activity:high
5/29    Why did kchang get sorried?
        \_ Lack of proper sense of humor on the part of Politburo?
        \_ (Destructive) scripts on the motd get you squished
           \_ but the same destruction done manually is ok, huh?
              \_ being a hoser in general will also get you squished
                 (hey, I didn't write the rules)
              \_ actually, this will also get you squished, see:
                 \_ which also claims that the motd can't be used for
                    non-University business.
        \_ Stalking.
2003/5/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/OtherSchools] UID:28575 Activity:insanely high
5/29    Related to the career thread schools really help
        make a difference in terms of salary, career advancement, etc?
        Everywhere I've worked, people from Cal States make almost
        as much as me and I never have a fancier title either.
                \_ Actually, some economists have done studies of this
                   sort of thing. Controlling for your ability, school
                   doesn't have that much of an effect except if you
                   are really smart and go to a 3rd rate school. Then
                   you tend to make less money than a smart person who
                   went to a competitive school. -fab
                   \_ Hello.  Just thought I would point out that
                      taking a sample of people with the same ability,
                      and observing their school and their salary will not
                      tell you the effect of school on salary.  You cannot
                      determine effects from observations in general. -- ilyas
                \_ There are surveys that track people through the life course.
                   Random samples of people. For example, the national
                   longitudinal study tracks a random sample of seniors
                   through college and into the labor market. By "controlling,"
                   I mean "throw the ability variable" into the regression
                   eqn. Nothing wrong with that. -fab
        \_ First place I worked at, HR asked me if I had a degree.  I said
           that it was from Cal, and asked whether they'd like to see it, and
           was told "no, your having a degree from there means enough".
           Started at ~$75-80k.  Depends on company, country, area, luck,
           economic situation, but yes, it helps to have a degree from a
           good school to get the interview.  -John
        \_ education from Cal gets you in the door.  Once you are working,
           it is all up to you to advance your career.
           \_ For me, a degree from MIT gets you an interview, pretty much
              automagically.  A Cal degree gets you laughed at.  Seriously,
              it's moderately depressing how few resumes of Cal grads cross
              my desk.
              \_ I had four MIT co-workers. Three are smart. The fourth
                 is actually kind of dumb. All four were promoted, though.
                 Caltech gets similar respect. As for Cal, there are two
                 others, including one very respected but I am sad to say
                 that my old secretary had a Cal degree (current is from
                 UCSD). That was really hard to accept.
                 \_ Cal is a big, diverse school -- the degree in question
                    matters at least as much as the University.
                 \_ I've met 2 significantly stupid MIT grads, one of them
                    a MIT PhD.  The rest (certainly numbering in the many
                    10's) were all more than average bright.  That's a better
                    hit rate than any other school in my experience.
                    That's why MIT boys get the auto interview.
                    \_ I haven't met any really stupid MIT people. What is
                       an example of something dumb he/they did?  All the
                       people who did caltech undergrad have been really
                       smart.  Berkeley depts like MassComm or PhysEd are
                       of course a world of difference than say Physics.
                       I cant think of any "really dumb" UCB physics people.
                       \_ Something dumb: Used drop tests from a helicopter
                          to test a parachute instead of a wind tunnel despite
                          much contrary advice with predictable (bad)
                          consequences. Is this IQ 80 stuff? No. Is this
                          a credit to MIT, though? (The Cal guys were on the
                          right side of this one, FWIW).
                       \_ A MIT boy once interviewed with me who can't answer
                          simple 6.111-type questions.  Another guy I am
                          working with now with can't reason his way out of
                          a paper bag even with written directions.  I spent
                          an afternoon trying to explain cache associativity
                          to him and finally gave up.
                          \_ not my field, what's 6.111?
                             \_ It's the MIT version of CS150, except
                                much harder (or so the MIT boys tell me).
                                \_ how would they know unless they took both
                                   at which point they'd already have the
                                   experience from one to make the other easy?
                                   \_ Don't be so parochial.
                                      \_ You almost had something to say.
                                         Would you like to try again?
                                         \_ No.  I'm not in the business of
                                            providing people with directions
                                            to reason their way out of paper
                                   \_ Take a look at past exams, hws and
                                      projects for 6.111 and compare with
                                      150. 6.111 is *much* harder.
                                      \_ Did they dumb down 150 recently?
                                         \_ 6.111 was much harder than 150
                                            even 15 years ago.  It wouldn't
                                            surprise me (and in fact I'd think
                                            it likely) that 6.111 has always
                                            been more difficult than cs150.
              \_ Can I send you my resume?
              \_ If there are any insecure motd readers who are saying
                 to themselves, "Really?  People will laugh if they see
                 I have a Cal EECS degree on my resume?", the answer is
                 no, unless the company is run by Stanfurdites or MIT people.
        \_ Yes, they do. Not always the way you think, though. There are
           always certain schools preferred because their programs are good,
           past hires worked out well, or the boss likes students from that
           school for some reason (alum network). The company matters, too,
           as does the type of work. --dim
        \_ I've had a few former managers who've made side comments like,
           "he's from such-and-such school, he's smart".  Sometimes they
           really were smart but not always.  It's a matter of perception.
           Certainly, going to a good school won't hurt you unless you're
           at the kind of place that has hiring managers that don't hire from
           top schools because the hiring managers have small parts.
           \_ could you explain that last statement?
                \_ small dick = insecure = don't want anyone smarter
        \_ A few things I have learned:
           1)  Public schools have a lot of schmucks that I wouldn't trust to
               do anything worth while, but who successfully slipped through
               the system without offending anybody.
           2)  The top percent from any school is great (whether it is MIT,
               Cal, or CSUN).
           3)  Being able to communicate is extremely important (and if you
               haven't yet noticed, that isn't high on Cal's list for its
               EE grads).
               \_ But when the ya know, right, eh?  Whassup dauwg?  Know what
                  I mean?
        \_ I have a Chemical Engineering degree.  And I can tell you this,
           Cal is very respected in the Petroleum / Chemical Engineering
           field.  Also, my experiences is that Cal carry a big weight
           when you apply for grad school.  I would agree with the earlier
           post.  Cal degree give you an edge to get an interview.  It may
           not carry as much weight as MIT/CalTech or even Stanfurd, but
           it give you an edge over all other schools.  The rest is
           up to you.  Life is a struggle, and the struggle doesn't end
           even after you obtain the degree.
                        -career never took off, but felt that Cal
                         had treated me fairly.
           \_ interesting.  my career took off but I don't think Cal treated
              me fairly.  it was the worst few years of my life.  however,
              after the sheer Hell that was Cal, everything else is easy.
                       want, and got all A's for the final 3 papers.
              \_ care to elaborate on your career?  my life at Cal
                 was also the darkest days in my life...
                        -Chem Eng, age of 30, still need career advice.
                 \_ In brief: I make a shitload of money doing what I like.
              \_ ...yet somehow, either before or after your time at cal you
                 figured out how not to use phrases like "cal carry big weight"
                 unlike the above.  This comes back to the point above about
                 communication skills.
                 \_ Before, actually.  I learned at Cal that writing well was
                    of no value.  My papers in fuzzy classes would get C/B
                    grades because they didn't like the content even when the
                    classes were supposed to be graded on correct grammar,
                    spelling, etc as in Subject A, English 1A, etc.  I saw
                    other people's papers I'd be ashamed to turn into my HS
                    English teacher, which the reader bloodied with corrections
                    get an A+ and a note at the end about how great the paper
                    was.  I started writing crap papers with the right content
                    and my grades went up too.  Fuck Cal.  --bitter alum
                    \_ Me too.  For my English 1A class with 6 papers, my
                             and fucked her and gone over to Sproul to drop.
                       grades went B, C, D, and then I realized what they
                       wanted, and got all A's for the final 3 papers.
                       \_ well, it looks like we all learned a useful lesson
                          from 1A/1B.  Grad students in English and
                          comp lit are stupid assholes.  I actually told
                          one of them to fuck off once. I had gotten an A on
                          the first paper, but they told me that they would
                          give me a straight F for the class if my attitude
                          didn't change.  they had started talking about
                          how relativity meant that everything was relative
                          or some other horseshit, and were not interested
                          in what i had to say about what relativity is really
                          all about(i was a physics major).  So flipped the
                          stupid cunt off,  told her "fuck you" and
                          went straight over to sproul to drop.
                          \_ I would've rather flipped the stupid cunt open,
                             fucked her and gone over to Sproul to drop.
                             \_ No, you wouldn't.  You didn't see her.
        \_ The best thing about a Cal degree is writing right here on
           the MOTD with my homies and the one or two brave enough
           \_ YO DAUWG!
           \_ GO BEAH!
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:May:29 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>