Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:17 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32948 Activity:high
8/17    LA times article written today on the swift boat controversy.
        Covers the purple hearts, the medals, the rescue, the commercial,
        Cambodia, the players.
        \_ I like the vague criticisms of the swifties.  Nice.
        \_ LAT?  Should I bother reading it?  I can get similar opinion from
           The People's Weekly World.
           \_ The article is fair and balanced.  A consequence is it doesn't
              come to any definite conclusions.
              (You should also come off your obvious prejudice, where you
              equate the LA Times with The People's Weekly World.  It's like
              saying:  I can get a similar opinion from
              The People's Weekly World.)
              \_ You're debating an obviously inflammatory troll?  Why bother?
              \_ Then why doesn't the article mention that Elliot says that he
                 was misquoted by the Globe?
                 \_ "Then he issued a second affidavit standing by his first
                    sworn statement, saying he had been misquoted by the Globe."
        \_ I have a better idea.  Why don't you go to there sites and
           read the accusations, which are all very well documented (e.g
           photos, Congressional Records, FBI files).  The question
           remains, was Kerry in Cambodia with the CIA / SEALs or not?
           \_ "there sites"?  What do you mean?
              The written evidence just shows that Kerry was not in Cambodia
              on Christmas Day.  Kerry also acknowledges this mistake.
              As for whether he was *ever* in Cambodia, don't you think
              conservatives would have loved to publish some hard facts
              showing he was never there?  They aren't able to, but they
              can show he wasn't there on Christmas Day, which they have.
2004/8/17 [Computer/Networking] UID:32949 Activity:low
8/17    This may not work with cable modem, but does work with USB!
        \_ I'm glad I use a text browser on motd links at work
2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32950 Activity:high
        Ex-Navy fighter pilot Sen. Tom Harkin ... was infuriated by the veep
        mocking Sen. John Kerry for saying he would fight a "more sensitive
        war on terror." ... "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was
        a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my
        blood boil ... He'll be tough, but he'll be tough with someone else's
        kid's blood ... It just outrages me that someone who got five
        deferments during Vietnam and said he had 'other priorities' at that
        time would say that," said Harkin, an Iowa Democrat.
        \_ Yep.  Where was your war hero Clinton during Vietnam?  This whole
           Vietnam litmus test is a hypocritical joke and a scam.  Why won't
           Kerry release his military records?  It's what he's running on.
           \_ Missed the DNC? Bill came clean and admitted that he, Bush, and
              Cheney all dodged their duty.  And Kerry's military records have
              been posted on his website.  Move on, son, that horse is dead.
              \_ Yeah now that it no longer matters to his career.  And no
                 Kerry's *complete* records are not on his website.  Only
                 selected portions.
                 \_ So what has not yet been released?
                    \_ The records behind all his medals for starters.  All
                       his medical records.  And frankly, we don't know
                       exactly what else but it is known that they're not
                       all released.  If we knew exactly what was in every
                       document then no one would ask for a full release, eh?
                 \_ So, what are you saying? That Clinton was as bad as Bush
                    and Cheney for dodging the draft? Granted! They were all
                    utter cowards. John Kerry and John McCain are both worth
                    more as human beings than the other three combined. Ready
                    to vote for Kerry now?
        \_ "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has
           weapons of mass destruction." -Cheney (August 2002)
        \_ Oh yeah, Nicaragua Harkin.  A Communist dupe coming to the
           aid of another Communist dupe and general dork.
2004/8/17 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:32951 Activity:moderate
8/17    hola, does anybody know of something already written
        to cronologically sort the default human readable date fmt,
        preferably via a pipe [as opposed to emacs etc]. --psb
          May 17 13:03:38 2001
          May 22 17:04:12 2001
          Nov 30 13:01:38 2001
          Aug 21 13:02:46 2002
          Aug 22 17:02:42 2002
          Aug  7 21:06:41 2002
          Aug  9 09:02:24 2002
          \_ You might want to pipe through something like
             php -r "echo strtotime(fgets(STDIN));" and then sort.
             This, of course, will get rid of strings and sort by unix seconds.
             Now I feel dirty for using php for something.  -- ilyas
          \_ Anything wrong with Perl Date::Parse?
             \- hey what happened to some of the other suggestions?
                nothing is "wrong" with the perl, i was just wondering
                if someone had done this alrady rather than my having
                to write something. i was hoping someone had cooked
                up something with gnu sort analogous to something
                like "sort -n -t . -k 1,1 -k 2,2 -k 3,3 -k 4,4" to
                sort ip addresses. --psb
2004/8/17 [Uncategorized] UID:32952 Activity:high
8/17  The Ilyas-mocking will continue until someone posts a better thread.
      \_ well, there was the beginings of a aluminum vs. xenon flame war, but
         someone deleted that as well.
2004/8/17 [Recreation/Pets] UID:32953 Activity:high
8/17  Question for soda ilyases regarding envrionmental protection.
      The rationale, as I understand it, against envrionmental protection
      goes as follows: "it is not fair that some nameless, faceless
      government agency can regulate what people can and can not do on
      property they own." Assume I agree with this. Let's consider a
      related kind of property. Some people own cats. In some sense, this
      is property just like land. Would you support people's right to
      burn their cats alive?
      \_ Yeah, fresh cat is always best prepared when the cat is broiled
         alive. Where have you been?
      \_ Mmmm...Ilya satire is an untapped goldmine!
         \_ Satire requires more effort than this.
            \_ Well, I said it was _untapped_.  I like the idea more than the
               above attempt.
          \_ Since people act as a colony much like ants, and since ants have
             the right to eat any food the colony deems important, is it not
             logical that humans may eat their children? -mock-ilyas
             \_ Yeah, it's easier to mock than it is to respond intelligently.
                \_ No.  Arguing with ilyas approaches a limit at infinity
                   of uselessness extremely quickly.
                   \_ Yeah, and a lot more fun than responding to stupid
                      questions, too.
          \_ Will no one else help mock?
          \_ Actually, yeah.  I don't give a crap if people want to light
             their own cats on fire.  -motd conservitive
             \_ So it OK with you if I burn your cat and then pay you its
                fair-market value?
                \_ No, you can only do that if you're the government.
                   \_ I can drop a ton of bricks on your car and pay you fair
                      market value for it.  Why can't I do the same to your cat?
                \_ No.  A cat is not *owned* like a car or a house.  And no,
                   you don't have the right to destroy other's property and
                   simply replace it with FMV.  Property rights are a
                   fundamental part of western society that the alleged motd
                   conservative above fails to understand.  --real conservative
2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32954 Activity:high
8/17    The smart money around the world say Kerry is in!  It's over.
        \_ Hey, it isn't over until Netcraft says Bush is "beleaguered"
        \_ Well, it does show press outside the U.S. show a lot more
           critical coverage of Bush -- and this is 100% true from my recent
           stay in Canada.
2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32955 Activity:high
8/17  Why the "Kerry is the most liberal senator" meme is bogus:
      \_ The Daily Show when Jon took that congressman to task over
         that line was in-fucking-credible.
         \_ Thanks for that tip. Pretty amazing. For the other who
            haven't seen it:
      \_ I'd be interested in taking this guy to task for this line:
         "Is Kerry a liberal? You bet. He's pro-choice, against Bush's tax
         cuts, for environmental protection, and for universal health
         care, to name a few issues. Of course, so are a majority of
         \_ "against Bush's tax cuts" might be stretching it.
            against an increasing budget deficit is a lot more likely.
            \_ Who, Kerry or a majority of Americans? Both seem to be opposed
               to ultra-rich ppl getting tax breaks.
               \_ Since it is very obvious Kerry does not support Bush's tax
                  cuts, of course I meant a majority of Americans.  If the
                  question were, "against Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy",
                  you will probably find a majority.  Without "for the
                  wealthy", you will find most Americans scratching their
                  \_ I think you'd be surprised.  A majority of people polled
                     have not perceived a decrease in their tax burden.
               \_ Part of the problem is, often the democrat definition
                  of "wealthy" is anyone who pays taxes.
      \_ This is very interesting, but the article doesn't explain the
         reasoning behind the National Journal policy of dropping a category if
         the number of votes in the category are small.
         \_ So?  Go check the National Journal's website.
      \_ He voted against modernization of every weapon's since.  He
         pro- homosexual marriage and military.  On and on...
         He's extremely liberal... but has been able to hide it so far.
2004/8/17 [Academia/UCLA] UID:32956 Activity:very high
8/17  Cal student Natalie Coughlin wins gold medal
      \_ Yep, she definitely looks like a female Cal student.  Why didn't I
         go to UCLA?!  *cry*
         \_ she could probably crush your head with her thighs
            \_ That's nice but I don't have a wrestler fetish.
         \_ urlP (no pic in the main article)
            \_ #t
            \_ For those who keep saying "urlP" you do know this is a predicate
               with a truth value, right?  It's not a request for url.
            \_ From which pic did you infer this?
         \_ She may be ugly but she's already more successful than
            you'll ever be in your career.
            \_ Google is your friend.
               She looks quite pretty to me.  I don't know what the problem is.
               \_ I agree. She's kind of cute.
               \_ The "why didn't I go to UCLA" guy doesn't like smart,
                  pretty, athletic women.  Coughlin is a babe.
                                                    \_ No.
                  \_ Yes, I do, and no, she isn't.  Isn't disagreeing fun?
                                                    \_ No.
                  \_ My ideal woman will have broad shoulders and strong arms
                     with which she can crush my pasty-white, nerdling body.
         \_ UCLA guy is an idiot
            \_ Some of us prefer women that don't look like boys.
               \_ This is a boy?
                  \_ I can see her back muscles from the front.
                     \_ Just because she could twist your girly man body around
                        in a pretzel and laugh while doing it and yet she's
                        still pretty. This is why you find her unattractive?
                  \_ She looks like the Terminatrix from T-3
                  \_ Is she really the most celebrated Cal athlete? More than
                     say Matt Biondi or Michelle Granger?
            \_ he may be an idiot but he's probably getting more than you
               \_ if he thinks women like Natalie Coughlin are ugly, then
                  he's probably not
2004/8/17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32957 Activity:high
8/17    ilyas, what exactly do you do? Do you have a research topic, and
        how is that going? Are you getting funded, or are you TAing this
        summer? I'm asking because you seem to not have a life outside
        of motd, and frankly, I'm sick and tired of deleting your trolls.
        \_ Pot. Kettle. Black.
           \_ Most. Tired. Motd. Response. Ever.
        \_ He plays a lot of Diablo ][
2004/8/17-18 [Uncategorized] UID:32958 Activity:high
8/17    Can the person who cuts the column at 79 every hour or so, can you
        please stop it? It is messing up with my CGIs.
        \_ CGIs?
          \_ yeah, it looks like
             with link to the URLs, but when you break it up it no longer
           \_ use the URL shorteners
        \_ maybe you need to rewrite them?

[restored, this is not a troll]
2004/8/17 [Uncategorized] UID:32959 Activity:high
8/17    What's the safest biking route to get from Golden Gate Park to the
        Golden Gate Bridge?  I don't mind going extra distance for safety.
        \_ RIDE BI oh wait...
        \_ Personally, I take 25th Ave from the middle of the park.  I don't
           know how you define "safety," although I surmise it's not the
           same way I would.  There is a marked bike lane on either 24th or
           23rd Ave, I forget which.  Or you can take the coast road past
           the Cliff House, which has less cross-traffic.  -tom
           \_ why does someone keep deleting this?  -tom
              \_ probably collateral damage from nuclear war going on
                 elsewhere on the motd.
                 \_ I agree.  Overwrites have been extremely frequent and
                    fast these days.
           \_ From the east side, you can take Arguello to Crissy Field
              and then up from the shoreline about a mile before the GGB.
2004/8/17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32960 Activity:very high
8/17    Education is good in hiring, but not too much education:
        \_ That was a good article.  Thanks.  I'm also glad to see that
           giving the text book answer to that "What is your biggest
           weakness" question isn't always a good idea.  "I work too
           hard."  "Suuuure ya do."
           \_ Walking out of the interview as soon as someone
              asks you that inane question is a good idea.
        \_ no, the insight is that MOST jobs out there do not require a PhD.
           Why hire a PhD when a BS/MS would suffice? Hire a PhD iff the
           job requires it.
           \_ I work in an environment where PhDs are highly valued, but
              not really required. We have a lot of overeducated people
              running around these days. People doing the same jobs 25
              years ago had MS mostly. Now people are commanding higher
              salaries and it's harder to find 'qualified people' because
              of the insistence that PhD is desirable. There are very few
              jobs where a PhD is required in reality.
              \_ In my experience, PhDs can often be some of the worst
                 \_ You should not hire PhDs do to engineering work, period.
                    You hire PhDs to do publications, papers, evaluations,
                    architect, grant proposals, networking between CTOs and
                    architects, etc. If your company hired PhDs to do low
                    level engineering grunt work, then your company sucks.
                    \_ Hmmm. So someone gets a PhD in engineering and then
                       should avoid engineering work? I disagree. PhDs
                       should be doing research, though. I agree with
                       that. Unless you work at a university (or at a
                       place like Xerox PARC) you probably don't need a
                       PhD, even though you might be doing things like
                       grant proposals, evaluations, and such. I work with
                       a lot of people with PhDs in engineering and they
                       qucikly get bored with work of any kind - even
                       "networking between CTOs and architects". They want
                       to do research and there are not enough jobs in
                    \_ I am fairly sure google hires PhDs for coding.
                       What about MechEng PhDs?  Systems PhDs?  EE PhDs?
                       You are an idiot.
                    \_ Agreed, most PhDs can't code, but they still make more
                       money than you. Such is life...
2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:32961 Activity:high
8/17    Best take on recent events award goes to
        "Homosexual Tearfully Admits To Being Governor Of New Jersey"
        \_ Also from todays onion:
           "The court struck every single one down? Well, that makes the
           failure rate for gay marriages almost double that of straight
        \_ Heh.  My personal favorite Onion article was:
           "Former Weightlifter Elected Governor of California"
           The article was 100% factual.
        \_ Hardly, McGreevy (and NJ in general) is completely
           corrupt.  This guy wanted to appoint his lover, who was
           unable to obtain even the lowest security clearances, to head
           Homeland Security in NJ after 9/11.  Real funny.
           \_ You mean politicians actually give jobs to their friends?  I for
              one am shocked!
              \_ Huh?  Corruption:  Everybody's doing it.
                 \- best onion was "bush finds error in fermilab calculation"
           \_ You don't get it.  It's the headline itself that's funny, not the
2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32962 Activity:insanely high
8/17    I've searched the web for a number of weeks on this topic.  I take
        back what I wrote earlier, and it does appear Kerry said he would
        release all service records, but he has flip-flopped on this.  Kerry
        has not offered *any* explanation for the flip-flop, and believe me,
        I searched. -liberal (stop changing the sig, ok?)
        \_ Nice try.  No liberal would be caught dead reading that Moonie rag.
           \_ Boston Globe:
              I read the above too, but I posted Washington Times because
              the article was clearer and had more information. -op
              \_ Boston Globe is a conservative paper as well.
                 \_ The facts in both articles cannot be denied. -op
                    \_ Globe has a long-standing vendetta against Kerry, just
                       thought you should know.
                          Article saying Globe is left-leaning, but indeed
                          has it in for Kerry -op
                       \_ Nothing anyone I don't like says can be true!
                          \_ It has nothing to do with that.  The Globe
                             dislikes Kerry.  They have gone out of their
                             way to discredit him over the years.  A good
                             comparison would be the Howell Raines led
                             New York Times and their vendetta against
                             Bill Clinton.
        \_ Does anyone else here remember the good old days when "flip-flops"
           were open toed shower shoes?
                \_ My Australian associates claim that these are "thongs", all
                   evidence to the contrary.  -John
                   \_ So what did they think of the "Thong Song?"
                      \_ The foot-fetishists loved it.
        \_ "We are unable to locate the page you requested"
           \_ The original URL was correct as posted.  Someone fucked it
              up by changing a "0" to a "1".  Fixed now. -op
        \_ Bush in flip-flops, via The Daily Show:
  (Real Player)
        \_ So was Kerry on secret Cambodia missions with the CIA / SEALs
           or not?  Yes Kerry needs to fill out a form 180 to release his
           \_ He very likely took part in at least one CIA Cambodia mission.
              \_ LOL since when? The Kerry camp has 5 different stories.
                 Was it this mission that was seared in his mind?
                 \_ Kerry was not in Cambodia on Christmas Day.
                    He very likely took part in at least one CIA mission.
                    Now, what is your question?
                    \_ WTF does mean - 'he very likely took part'.  This
                       guy has repeated the story over 50 times, and in the
                       Senate at least two times.  Now you want to change it.
                       I say he has serious problems with the truth.  You
                       can't even substantiate he was EVER there, so you make
                       up more lies.  Man am I dealing with 8 year olds here?
                       \_ The only thing Kerry has changed is the date of
                          when he was in Cambodia.
                          Please substantiate how he was never, ever there.
                          "Man am I dealing with 8 year olds here?"
           \_ You guys are sure trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
              Is the best you've got that Kerry hasn't been totally clear about
              his Vietnam missions?  That's not exactly a scandal.
              With Bush the push to open his records is because there were
              serious questions about whether he was a deserter.  What question
              do you have about Kerry?  That he might have messed up a date or
              mission description?
              \_ OK so did he meet the NVA and Vietcong in Paris twice
                 or not?  Was he at a meeting where the VVAW discussed
                 assisinating US Senators or not?  FBI files say he was.
                 Why does his entire chain of command and 17 of the 23
                 officers he served with think he is unfit?  Why could
                 that be, what do they know that you don't?
                 \_ I don't suppose it could possibly have anything to do with
                    the fact that the military is in general very conservative
                    and Kerry has opposed military funding while Bush has spent
                    lavishly on the military.  Nope, it must be some personal
                    failing they hold a grudge against from 30 years ago.
              \_ Someone with a 19 year Senate record who is running entirely
                 on his 4 months in Vietnam needs to release his entire
                 record.  It isn't a mountain.  It isn't a mole hole.  It
                 just is what it is.  He needs to fully release his records.
                 If he wasn't running on his Vietnam record no one would care
                 about it.  He can't hide the record he's running on.
                 \_ Dude, our current president is a fucking retard monkey.
                    You care so much about this but you give the
                    drunk-driving CIA-agent-outing totally-incompetent
                    rudderless asshole a pass?
                    \_ Ooh!  it's an aaronantibushrant!  Tell us more!
                       \_ And this is worse than Obsessive Compulsive Swift
                          Boat Troll how?
                    \_ He got his tax-cut, and he'll be damned if he has to
                       give it up.  Defecit?  What me worry?
                    \_ "Bush is stupid!" is not an answer to why Kerry won't
                       fully release the records he's relying on as the core
                       of his campaign.  Bush could be dumber than a retarded
                       monkey, still drunk and coked out, out a CIA agent
                       twice a day everyday before breakfast and be the
                       world's biggest asshole, yet none of that would excuse
                       Kerry from releasing the full record he's running on.
                       \_ And nothing will apparently stop you from posting
                          the same mindless drivel over and over and over and
                          over and over and over and over [... and over(n)
                          where n is very large ...].  By the way, your
                          assumption that Kerry is running entirely on his
                          military service is incorrect and unsupported.
                          \_ Which drivel is that?  I've posted exactly
                             zero swift boat links.  It isn't an assumption,
                             btw.  It is an assertion.  There is a difference.
                             And my assertion is well supported by Kerry's
                             own speech at the DNC convention.  70+ words on
                             his 19 years in the Senate vs. 50+ minutes on
                             his 4 months in Vietnam.  The math isn't that
                             hard on this one.  Anyway, this is all beside
                             the point.  Kerry is running on his Vietnam
                             record "to a great extent" (happy with that
                             phrasing?) and thus needs to fully release his
                             records if he wants to score points with them.
2004/8/17 [Recreation/Media] UID:32963 Activity:very high
8/17    So, was anyone else surprised by the fact that I, Robot is actually a
        good movie and good science fiction?
        \_ Seeing as the other threads have a flame-war going on and you've
           gotten 0 replies in as many hours, apparently no-one else saw the
        \_ I heard it sucked goat scrotum and didn't go see it. --aaron
        \_ yea, I was a little surprised.  I thought it was good, not just
           a big fight fest.   I read some of the robot stories when I was
           like 12 years old.
        \_ yes it was a good movie.  did anyone think the movie was okay
           after reading the book?
           \_ I did.  I read the book when I saw the movie was coming out.
              They're good stories, but weak on character (I've never thought
              Asimov was good on character though).  I enjoyed the movie, and
              there was at least one part of the movie that was obviously based
              on one of the stories (which of these robots doesn't belong?).
              I thought it'd be a worthy addition to the rest of the stories in
              the anthology.  -emarkp
              \_ Except that I feel that it didn't capture the spirit of the
                 stories in the book.  In the book, evolution of the robots
                 were a good thing.  The robots ruled without any bloodshed.
2004/8/17 [Uncategorized] UID:32964 Activity:nil
8/17    Why do we have all these flamewars going on? Can't we just get along?
        \_ BLAME CANADA!
2004/8/17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:32965 Activity:nil
8/17    Hasselblad is going digital:
        \_ I thought digital backs for medium formats have been available for
           quite a while.
2004/8/17-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:32966 Activity:high
8/17    My sister is looking to learn perl, but she's not really a professional
        programmer.  Can anyone recommend a decent perl book which isn't too
        complicated?  TIA.
        \_ Learning Perl, 3rd Ed
           \_ Seconded. You might be able to get it for free after mir
              from fry's this week.
        \_ Just curious.  What for?
        \_ Not really a professional programmer?  Perl sounds perfect!
           \_ Riiiight.  Whatever, man.
2004/8/17 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:32967 Activity:nil
8/17    Is there a Maildir compatible equivalent of frm?
        \_ Third hit on Google for: frm maildir
           Come _on_ people
2004/8/17-18 [Computer/HW/Memory] UID:32968 Activity:moderate
8/17    How do I clear the URL autocomplete memory in Safari?  Clear history
        does not work and I could not locate the files storing that info.
        \_ Safari will also autocomplete URLs stored in your bookmarks,
           not necessarily in your history.
        \- is there a way to be able to select the url w/ a single or double
           click, as opposed to the default RETAHDED triple click?
           \_ cmd-L
2004/8/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Industry/Jobs] UID:32969 Activity:insanely high
8/17    So apropos of the discussion below, do people here think it is
        dishonest to leave a degree *off* of a resume, i.e. a phd?
        \_ Dishonest? Yes.  Does it matter as long as you don't later come
           back and ask for better money/title/position/work/etc based on
           it? No.  I've dropped all the one-off contract jobs from my
           resume.  Am I dishonest?  For the next rewrite I'm going to
           drop anything more than 10 years old.  Is that dishonest?  I
           don't remember the titles I had at 2 places so I made one up
           that fit what I did.  Dishonest?  It's just a resume.  If you
           can't do the job, they'll fire you later.  If you can, then so
           what?  The only place I'd give a full and complete disclosure
           is for a security government or financial job where they'll do
           a very deep background check and find out everything anyway.  As
           some random staff techie at a non-security job?  Fuck it.  Do
           whatever you can to improve your chances without adding things
           that aren't true.
        \_ The day corporations do full disclosure of all their warts
           in their offer letter, you might have a case.
        \_ No.
        \_ Yes, because I will not be happy if I find out the person is
           a liar. Lying to your new boss before you even meet him/her is
           lame. Find a job that fits you and don't waste my time.
           \_ How is replacing phd with MS + 3 years research experience
              a lie? Obviously if someone asks what education I have,
              I'll say, I'm just talking about what goes on the resume.
              Is it dishonest to leave information about one's military
              career off of a resume for a programming job?  where do
              you draw the line?
                \_ Why would you even want to leave out a PhD?
                   \_ Ph.D.'s cost more, and the company might have a bunch
                      of non-productive degree holders who might bias the hirer
                        \_ Why don't you just say you won't demand higher
                           pay? It's not a good idea to start off lying
                           to a potential future employer. Even if it is
                           a lie by omission.
                           \_ My buddy who has a U. of Chicago law degree
                              omitted this on his Best Buy application.  He's
                              been working there for almost three years (not
                              as a corporate guy, but the lowly guys who
                              help customers with advice). -!op
                              \_ 1. He's clearly an idiot. 2. He's not
                                 seriously cultivating a career at Best
                                 Buy, is he? If not, then it does not
                                 \_ In case you didn't get it, this is one
                                    example where it makes sense not to list
                                    a degree -- when it has no relevance to
                                    the position you are applying for
                                    (assuming the lack of any instruction
                                    to list all educational history).
                                    \_ In case *you* didn't get it, Best
                                       Buy is not exactly pertinent to his
                                       career, so what does it matter if
                                       he pisses his boss off or gets
                                       fired? It's not that it makes sense
                                       to omit it. It's that it won't
                                       matter either way.
                                       \_ Maybe it is his career.  Maybe he
                                          enjoys what he does and intendeds
                                          to continue.
              \_ Listing "+ 3 years research" is questionable if it's what's
                 led to your Ph.D.
           \_ A lot of people would argue that it is not even a lie of
              omission, unless HR specifically asks you to list all educational
              background.  Same goes for previous jobs.
              Obviously we disagree:  you think you're right, I think I'm
              \_ As someone in a position to hire, I will tell you that
                 I wouldn't like it. You can think you are right all you
                 \_ Actually, I disagree with you on whether it's a lie of
                    omission (I say it isn't, and I still think you're wrong
                    about this), but I agree with you on not
                    liking it:  As someone in a position to hire, I wouldn't
                    like applicants omitting a Ph.D. if they got one.
                    To summarize:  It's not dishonest, as I originally
                    said, but your employer probably won't like it.
                    Part Deux:  Be careful how easily you throw around the
                    label "liar".  I wouldn't want to work with someone who
                    thought like that, but that's just an IMO.
                    \_ based on all the other stuff that gets posted to the
                       motd, what are the chances you want to work with
                       anyone on the motd anyway?
                       \_ why not?  this is all bullshit and venting.  do you
                          think any of these people are *really* like this?
                          \_ That the motd is a more insulated way to
                             communicate (i.e. you aren't risking a punch in
                             the face) does not excuse being a complete
                             asshole.  People who are assholes on the motd
                             are either
                             (a) assholes in real life or
                             (b) too cowardly to be assholes in real life like
                                 they are on the motd.
                             Either way, would you want to work with them, or
                             indeed spend any time with them?  -- ilyas
                 \_ yea, whatever, all the ceos are liars anyway.
                    \_ but they have the hiring money and you don't.
                       \_ how do you think they become ceos in the first
                          \_ they all lie on their resumes!  of course!
                             none of them went to a pricey mba school after
                             clawing their way up the corporate ladder and
                             destroying the careers of dozens of others on
                             their way to the top!  nononono, they simply
                             wrote some random shit up on their resume that
                             no one would check like "senior vp, ibm sales,
                             world wide, 1987-1996" and bingo!   Profit!
                             \_ Have you read a quarterly report before?
                                Or go to a Q&A session following an
                                earnings announcement?  It's all about
                                emphasizing strengths and hiding
                                weaknesses.  Get real.
                 \_ So if I ask you some questions about your company
                    during the interview, will you tell the complete
                    truth and include all the things you hate about your
                    \_ What the hell does this have to do anything? You
                       may as well lie and say you have 10 years designing
                       ASICs when you have 0, right? Why put your real
                       name on the application? Maybe you should omit your
                       prison record, too. This last one gets lots of
                       people fired.
                       \_ What does it have to do with anything?  It tells
                          me that all the talk about honesty is full of
                          \_ Go ahead and omit your time in prison. Hey,
                             the corporation lies, too. Your ass will
                             still be fired for it.
                             \_ well, it hasn't.  in fact, I am doing
                                really well.  thanks for your concern
                                though, corporate dick sucker hypocrite.
                                \_ What were you imprisoned for?
                       \_ You lost me.  What does the candidate lying about
                          his background have to do with the company employees
                          coming clean when asked about the company?
                          \_ Ask the person I was responding to.
2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32970 Activity:nil
8/17    "Yahoo! News - Kerry Condemns Ad Attacking Bush Service"
        What a hypocrite.
        \_ How so?
        \_ Since op does not explain:  There's an ad out that says Bush used
           family connections to get out of the draft.  Kerry criticizes the
           ad as inappropriate:  "This should be a campaign of issues, not
           insults".  Wesley Clark and a retired admiral, at a news conference,
           also say Bush used family connections.  Kerry won't criticize
           Clark or the admiral.  Bush people say:  Kerry is a hypocrite --
           he is condemning the ad, but he's letting his attack dogs make
           the same complaints and won't condemn them.
           IMO, their point is weak.  Kerry said Clark and the admiral have
           earned the right to say what they want on this issue, as they're
           veterans.  Kerry has stated his opinion, already.
           On the other hand, Bush never criticizes the ad by the Swift Boat
           Vets For Truth.  (But at least he's consistent on ignoring
           McCain's call on Republicans to criticize that ad.)
2004/8/17 [Health/Dental, Health/Men, Recreation/Pets] UID:32971 Activity:nil
8/17    Plastic surgery for pets:
2004/8/17-18 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:32972 Activity:very high
8/17    I live in a top floor apt that gets very hot (no AC) and I recently
        mail ordered a bunch of condoms that is used very slowly.  Is it ok to
        store them in the fridge (not freezer) too keep them from the heat?
        \_ if some hoser on the motd gives you advice and it's wrong,
           you get aids or get someone pregnant.  don't be a tard.
           call up the condom company and ask them.
           \_ Seriously. I don't think this was a real request, or if it
              is, dude, I have this new thing called a search engine to
              show you.
              \_ Fine.  you're probably right, it's just a troll.  But since
                 you put it like that, I hereby formally challenge you to
                 convincingly answer this using a "seach engine."
        \_ Why small?
2004/8/17-18 [Uncategorized] UID:32973 Activity:high
8/17    Helo, does anybody recall/know the definition of a
        Quasiperiodic Function. Ok tnx. [it isnt a class of
        nowhere differntiable func, is it?]
        \_ Google, page 3.  Lazy ass.
           \_ I dont think you know what you are reading.
              \_ A function (over a field F) is considered quasiperiodic with
                 period \omega if there exist a, b \in F such that
                 f(z + \omega) = f(z)*e^{az + b}.
                 Lazy ass.  You couldn't google for the obvious thing and look
                 for the first few pages of the results?
        \_ A function f is quasi periodic if and only if the set of
           its Fourier exponents has an integer and finite basis.
2004/8/17-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32974 Activity:insanely high 54%like:34993
8/17    Dude, kchang, what's up with your motd archive?  It's two weeks old!
        \_ He got squished because he was using a script to finger soda
           more than once a second to retrieve the motd without logging in.
           He stopped the script.
           \_ Why would closing his soda account prevent him from fingering
              the machine?  If the abuse was fingering then he should be
              stopped from fingering.  If the abuse was soda related then
              his account should be terminated.  I don't see a relationship
              between the two events.  This looks political/personal.
                \_ my friend, 90% of the stuff that goes on in the real world
                   (outside of your nice little world) is based on politics,
                   personal favors, and vendetas. CSUA + EECS has been like
                   this since I was a freshman in the late 80s and it still
                   runs like this. The sooner you accept this the better off
                   you'll be.
                   \_ Ah, finally the true colors of the motd liberal come out.
                      Go 'nuanced' worldview go!
                      \_ That was most definitely not one of the numerous
                         motd liberals.
                         \_ How the hell could you know unless you wrote it?
                            Or is this just Bad->Republican && Republican->Bad
           \_ I don't personally use any archive and I don't see why anyone
              would either. Most of it is filled with political trash from
              ilyas|tom|aaron|few others that no one else ever cares about.
              Why bother?
              \_ Dude, you don't bathe either.Does that mean it's the standard?
              \_ I'd bother because, on the contrary, I think there actually is
                 a variety of useful knowledge that flies through here now
                 and then. Over time it adds up to a lot, and being able to
                 search back for some item can be handy. The other reason is
                 that often I can no longer sit monitoring the motd every
                 5 minutes. Since stuff gets nuked so frequently, it's very
                 handy to be able to look in the archive to see what happened
                 to a thread, what replies a post received, or what entire
                 threads I might have missed.
              \_ Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitchity-bitch!
                 I try to answer technical questions or whatever, when I feel
                 I am qualified, other than that I talk about what I find
                 interesting.  If you don't like a thread, skip it.  What have
                 YOU done to make motd a better and more useful place?  Except
                 bitching, because that doesn't count. -- ilyas
                 \_ I'm with Ilyas on this one.  If you don't like what others
                    have to say which obviously interests them or it wouldn't
                    be here 24x7, then just ignore it and don't participate.
                    Nothing stops you from making a world writable file in
                    /tmp or your home or on some other machine.  There is
                    nothing sacred about the motd that says it can only be
                    used the way some people insist it must be.
                    \_ fine, maybe I'll just nuke it from time to time, just
                        like the time when ilyas and tom partially deleted
                        posts that they didn't like.
                        \_ no, it's not fine.  you're saying the opposite
                           of what i suggested.  do what you like but don't
                           try to put your nuking on my head.
            \_ he got squished because he was stupid enough to bounce
               his finger requests through a cgi on the EECS department
               webserver multiple times/second in such a way as to make
               root@eecs notice.
               \_ which normally just gets a slap and a warning.  i still
                  don't see how his outside activities have anything to do
                  with having a soda account.
                  \_ Normally, people who just got their accounts back
                     don't pull shit like this
                     \_ What shit? Since when was using "finger" such
                        a horrible offense? Since when was running
                        automated scripts that don't have any malicious
                        use a squishable offense. I don't really know
                        much about kchang. For all I know, he could be
                        a total freak. But I think this is just petty.
                     \_ especially when they originally got squished for
                        something very similar.
                        \_ how is it similar?
                        \_ I still see no relationship between his non-soda
                           account activity and getting his account terminated
                           and no one has attempted to explain the link.
                           \_ that's because your premise is ridiculous
                              \_ then it should be easily refuted which you
                                 haven't done.
                                 \_ that's because it's a strawman argument.
                                    "Never argue with an idiot; he'll bring
                                    you down to his level, and beat you with
                                    \_ It isn't a strawman.  You don't know
                                       what that even means.  I shall explain.
                                       A strawman is when *I* would frame
                                       *your* point as some weak statement
                                       which *I* would then knock down.  This
                                       is not what I have done.  It has been
                                       stated many times that he was squished
                                       for over doing it on the finger procs
                                       but squishing him does not prevent him
                                       from fingering anything.  So we're
                                       back where we started.  He got squished
                                       for petty personal reasons, not to
                                       prevent him from doing anything and
                                       didn't even get a warning for such a
                                       trivial event.  Unrelated but I find
                                       it ridiculous that he could generate
                                       enough traffic from UCLA to slog the
                                       EECS network at UCB with just finger
                                       a few times per second.
                     \_ What shit?  Would you terminate his account if he
                        accumulated too many unpaid parking tickets?  What
                        does fingering soda via eecs have to do with his
                        account being terminated?  Nothing.  He was just
                        being punished because some petty people who
                        dislike him could.
                        \_ Soda's net connection is through the good graces
                           of the EECS department, it is in our best interests
                           to keep them happy.  I still don't know why
                           kchang insisted on 'bouncing' his finger requests
                           to soda off of an EECS machine, when he could have
                           just fingered soda directly, or transfered the motd
                           diffs via scp, or used his old cgi, or a million
                           different other ways. - danh
                           \_ And using one of the million different other
                              ways is better than using finger? If anything,
                              scp consumes more packet overhead than finger.
                              What's so horrible about finger? If he had
                              used scp or some old cgi, I'm sure someone
                              would have complained that kchang was
                              constantly sending scp or http requests to
                              csua. If finger was such an abuse, why don't
                              you tell us about it or disable the service?
                         \_ finger is fine.  why didn't he finger soda directly
                            then, and not doing some lame early 90s
                            hacker shit and bouncing it off an EECS machine?
                            i still don't get it. - danh
                            \_ Someone pointed out in motd that he was using
                               finger. Being the paranoid spaz that he is,
                               he decided he needed to hide where the finger
                               was coming from
                           \_ How does squishing him prevent him from
                              doing what he was squished for?  It doesn't.
                              Therefore squishing him is pointless and
                              \_ because when they squished him, they also
                                 put a .nofinger which makes any 'fingering'
                                 pointless, so he stopped
                              \_ yes it sucks.  too bad nothing in the real
                                 world is as black and white as yours.
                                 soda is more like a consensual hallucination.
                                 \_ thanks for not answering anything I said.
                                    why did you bother replying at all?
        \- it's simple, his squishage is all about personal vendettas. ask
           tom holub, he'd know something about personal vendettas.
                \_ and so do you, mister anonymous.  did he fart on you
                   in E260 in 1990?  - danh
                   \_ he farted on my best friend.  he's no longer with us. :-)
                   \_ he farted on my best friend.  she's no longer with us. :-)
        \_ I think kchang has been unsorried again.
                \_ this is all so obvious if you twinks just learned to
                   to use /csua/bin/finger. For the Xth time, use the
                   godamn binary!!!
                   \_ You can't finger kchang since there is now a .nofinger
                      in his home dir
                      \_ Ah, so he's tired of people giving him the finger...
                         \_ you so funny
                      \_ /csua/bin/finger ignores ~/.nofinger, unlike
                         The /etc/passwd entry is no guarantee of non-squish
                         In any case, if you /csua/bin/finger him now, you
                         will see he has been unsquished.  I wonder when
                         he finds out.
                         \_ He already has, my friend.  He already has.
2019/01/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:17 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>