Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:January:03 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/1/3-4 [Recreation/Food] UID:35517 Activity:high
1/3     Traditional Chili = American version of beef curry.  Comments?
        \_ No, they're completely different.
        \_ I'm not really sure what you're getting at.  Are you trying to
           say that every culture has some hot dish that is vaugely
           equvilent to beef curry?
        \_ I am not a huge indian food expert, but isn't beef curry a sin
           against nature? -- ilyas
           \_ Tastewise, not really. Culturally, see a Weblog on beef in India:
              \- this says some suspect things. i think the south in many ways
                 is more conservative, not less. bangalore may now be an
                 exception. muslims have lots of beef dishes, like beef kabobs,
                 or nihari beef. steak is not really a native dish, as far as
                 i know. whether or not muslims restaurants serve beef probably
                 depends on the area it is embedded in. even in the muslim
                 parts of Kolkata i only see egg/chicken/mutton/fish rolls.
                 goat meat is also very common. --psb
                 \_ Partha, post-British Empire, how many foods eaten today
                    and recognised as Indian are truly native dishes?
                    \- i have no answer to this inquiry.
                    \_ What does truly native mean?  Is that like Hitler's
                       'true Aryan.'?  -- ilyas
           \_ There are Thai curry and Indonesian curry, as well as Chinese
              and Japanese versions of Indian curry.
2005/1/3 [Recreation/Media] UID:35518 Activity:nil
1/2     English lesson for crebbs (I'm only going to bother with one

        "because fox viewer's estimation of actors opinions are the same as
        tom's evident opinion of published author's opinions."

        "Fox viewer's estimation" is wrong.  Either it needs an article
        ("a fox viewer's estimation") or it should be plural ("fox viewers'
        estimation").  "actors opinions" is possessive; possessives require
        an apostrophe.  You have "estimation," your subject, as singular,
        and "are," your verb, as plural; pick one.
        I won't bother getting into the content or the phrasing, both of
        which could use work.

        Try to do better in threads where you are questioning someone else's
        knowledge of the English language.  -tom
        \_ 1st, as if you cared, the statements above were made
           *before* the conversation degenerated into said questioning.
           2nd, our disagreement was one of vocabulary, not syntax.  Quite
           different areas, and just because you are wrong about one, after
           making such a big point of it,  hardly warrants this childish
           posting on the other.
           Finally, I tend not to proof, or care much about the syntax of,
           my offhanded, meant to be anonymous (thank you very much), throw
           away responses to the motd (which this was).  Yet Another reason
           to post anonymously is not having to deal with morons who think
           pointing out errors of syntax/typos gives them points. -crebbs
2005/1/3 [Uncategorized] UID:35519 Activity:nil
1/2     What's the best way to destroy a DVD?
        \_ for some definition of best, burn it or nuke it.
        \_ stick it in a microwave for a couple minutes.  I have no idea
           how safe this is, but it'll destroy the dvd.
2005/1/3-4 [Health/Dental] UID:35520 Activity:high 50%like:33673
1/2     What is a good way to find out which doctor or dentist is "good"? I
        have a list of doctors/dentists from my PPO, but I'd like to find
        out which one(s) people have had good experiences with. TIA.
        \_ Ask your friends.
           \_ As above, but narrow the field some by creating a list of the
              five closest to your house and the five closest to your work.
              Even the best doctor in the world isn't worth driving 20 miles.
              \_ Also narrow the field by eliminating denstist that are part
              \_ Also narrow the field by eliminating denstists that are part
                 of a big chain.  I can particularly warn against Aspen Dental,
                 although I've heard similiar stories from other big chains.
                 Basically, Aspen Dental will tell you that you have a lot of
                 cavities you don't have.
        \_ first of all realize that most of the dentists will do unnecessary
           tasks just to get insurance money.
           \_ I once had a dentist try to foist a gold crown off on me, and no,
              I'm not a pirate or a hiphop artist.  The hell do I need gold?
              \_ You're not a pirate?  Really?
                 That dentist knew damn well you didn't pay for that copy of
                 \_ That dentist is a damned liar.
        \_ I used 1-800-dentist to find mine and she is awesome. -smurf
           \_ I wonder what this means....
              \_ It means he gave his dentist an oral exam with his tool and
                 she was awesome.
2005/1/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:35521 Activity:high
1/3     so is SSI broken or not?  i can't figure it out.
        \_ If you ask anyone in the media, yes.  If you ask anyone who
           actually knows economics and pays attention to the subject, no.
        \_ i'm not sure.  i have read that the bush/norquist and co.
           want to break soc. security to allow the government to
           not have to pay back all the money it borrowed from
           the ssi trust.  not sure, maybe someone smarter than me
           can write a report for the class.
  - danh
                \_ you're an idiot.   -tom
           \_ More to the point, BushCo want to let people invest their SSI
              payments in the market; has he never heard of the stock market
              crashes of 1929, 1987, and the DotCom Bust of 2000?
              \_ Do better research, even including the crashes, over the
                 long term a well diversified portfolio out performed
                 "safe" investments.
                 \_ Genuinely curious: how diversified do you have to be? If
                    you put 1% each in 100 Dow Jones listed companies, you'd
                    still be down 10% from the pre-DotBomb days.
                    \_ DJIA @ 1/2/81 = 963.99
                       DJIA @ 1/2/91 = 2633.66
                       DJIA @ 1/2/01 = 10790.92
                       DJIA @ 1/3/05 = 10729.43
                       Please refer to subsequent post about the lack of
                       historical perspective and the over-emphasis on current
                       and short-term trends.
                       \_ I really do appreciate the amazing jump made between
                          91 and 01, but now what?
                          \_ The data is trivially available.  I assumed it
                             was sufficient to give the long term trend, and
                             that you would be able to fill in points in
                             between.  Mea culpa.  BTW, the question is not
                             whether the Dow performs well over the long-term
                             (it does).  The question you should be bright
                             enough to ask (with that fancy cal education and
                             all) is really how long would it take you to
                             recover if you had the misfortune to buy at a
                             peak.  DJIA @ 9/3/29 = 380.33, and @ 12/1/55 =
                             386.77.  DJIA @ 10/1/87 = 2596.28, and @ 8/1/89
                             = 2660.66.  DJIA @ 9/1/00 = 11219.54, and it's
                             10729.43 today, down 4.3% from 9/1/00.
        \_ SSI is broken simply because people are living longer and
           having fewer children.
           \_ today's nytimes editorial says "if you extrapolate to
              INFINITY, the amount of money you owe is greater than
              getting payed(paid, learn to spell, damn you)
              in, if you extrapolate to something
              more reasonable, it's not broken."  who do you
              believe? - danh
              \_ Agreed:  the argument that we're going to run out of money
                 in SSI any time soon is based on an ad infinitum fallacy.
              \_ From the same NYT editorial, " sticking to the traditional
                 75-year time horizon [...] Social Security's shortfall is
                 estimated by the Congressional Budget Office at $2 trillion
                 and by the Social Security trustees at $3.7 trillion, a
                 manageable sliver of the economy in each case. If the
                 shortfall is on the low side, Social Security will be in the
                 black until 2052, when it will be able to pay out 80 percent
                 of the promised benefits. If it is on the high side, the
                 system will pay full benefits until 2042, when it will cover
                 70 percent."  Whether this is considered broken depends on
                 your politics, but certainly this is less broken than if you
                 projected out to infinity.  GDP today (in today's dollar) is
                 ~ $12T.  Assuming a growth of 3%, GDP in 2042 will be $37T
                 in today dollars.  Would a SSI deficit of 10% of GDP in 2042
                 (assuming worst case deficit of $3.7T is in 2004 dollars) be
                 considered broken?  Remember, the current budget deficit is
                 "only" 2.7% of the GDP.
                 \_ At the end of 1993, According to Al Martin, "The
                    total national debt of the United States on a fully
                    realized basis, inclusive of federal, state, county
                    and local debt stood at a record $20.613 trillion
                    (83.73% of said debt having been created from 1981-92
                    and from 2001 to present.) The total public and private
                    indebtedness of the United States ended the year 2003 at
                    $39.384 trillion. The total public and private assets of
                    the United States ended the year 2003 at $26.134 trillion.
                    Thus, the United States by the end of 2003 has a negative
                    net worth of approximately $13 trillion. The total debt
                    service of the United States ended the year 2003 at 309.4%
                    of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). These are numbers never
                    before seen.
                    \_ What? "end of 1993", "created from 2001 to present"?
                        \_ There might be some surpluses in there, so that
                           means no new debt created?  The point is that
                           betting on the long-term viability of the US might
                           be unwise.  When you add in other liabilities like
                           SSI and Medicare, the numbers go beyond $80
                           Trillion, but then of course we don't *have* to pay
                    \_ The national debt by itself is "merely" $7.5T, which is
                       62.4% of the GDP.  We had national debts of 64.1% to
                       63.5% of GDP from 1992 to 1998.  Unfortunately, the
                       OMB estimates the debt will go up to 72% of GDP in 2009.
2005/1/3-4 [Science/Disaster] UID:35522 Activity:very high
1/3     Why do people call this tsunami, with est. 150k dead, the worst natural
        disaster in known human history?  The Tang San (sp?) earthquake in
        China killed 650k people.
        \_ the only differences is that this particular disaster, a lot of
           Europeans fell victim as well.  If this tsunami happened in
           the April, as cruel as it may sound, no one is going to give
           much thought.
        \_ i think soviet union uzbekistan have giant quake in 1966
           that leveled a city and killed several hundred thousand people
        \_ I'm still waiting for some of you Christians to start talking about
           the Flood.
           \_ A plague of locusts in early December, snow in the UAE at Xmas;
              these are pretty clear signs. Another Flood, however, is right
              out, as G_d promised us the Fire Next Time.
        \_ The Black Plague killed 25 million people, is that not considered
           a natural disaster?
        \_ Criminy! Does it make a difference? Just cough up some dough to help
           the people out and worry about this crap when it's actually
        \_ I haven't heard worst. I've heard most expensive and I've
           heard really bad, but I haven't heard "worst."
        \_ Probably because they're ignorant.  I, BTW, have not heard
           anyone say that.  I heard one person ask and get told there was
           a typhoon that kill 250K, so this couldn't be the worst.
           \_ china has not exactly publisized the giant killer
              quake from the 70s.
              \_ It is publicized internally and the anniversary was
                 still remembered.  It was also well known internationally
                 (depending on whom you ask, of course) but no assistance
                 was requested or given.
              \_ Ummm.. Actually, I didn't know about the quake in China,
                 I was just pointing out that since there is at least one
                 worse disater in recorded history the tsunami couldn't
                 possibly be "the worst."  In general, I would consider it
                 ignorant for anyone to make a superlative statment like
                 "the worst in recorded history" without some serious
                 research to back it up.
                 \_ i think you're just splitting hairs and everyone
                    can agree the christmas day tsunami is going to be
                    is pretty bad.  you can be the annoying guy
                    at the party who points out that 1 million people
                    died from anti bacterial infections in ww1 if you want.
                    \_ Now you're just being stupid.  Yes, I probably
                       wouldn't bother correcting someone at a party.  Do
                       you just have no sense of context or something?
              \_ Are you Chinese?  Do you have any idea the effect of the
                 earthquake on China?
                 \_ You've obviously never served.
                       \_ you're an idiot.   -tom
                       \_ Stupid?!?  I know you are, but what am I?
              \_ well, i wouldn't expect joe six-pack to know about the
                 chinese quake.  i would expect a media newsreader to be
                 backed up by relatively complete research, rather/cbs
                 not withstanding.
                 \_ Then you're an idiot.
                    \_ apparently you don't understand what "expect" means.
                       i would say that i am an idealist if anything.
                       \_ If you expect anything remotely like fact checking
                          from any media figures, you haven't paid attention
                          over the last decade..
        \_ i've often heard people describe it as *one of* the worst.  at
           150k dead, i'm ok with that description.  i don't think i've heard
           it described as the unqualified "the worst", which would clearly
           be unjustified, as you pointed out.  that said, i've noticed
           that people tend to have a weak grasp of history and would protray
           their current calamities as unprecedented, when they might be even
           somewhat trivial in a historical context.
           \- in terms of deaths, this disaster is not even close to the
              worst in history. or even since 1900. however for "one day"
              events, it is pretty high [so, not include famines and other
              political disasters [collectivization], wars [verdun] and
              epidemics, and genocides [rwanda]. it is also very high in
              terms of non-death casaulties ... particularly, the number
              of people whose economic prospects are wiped out. --psb
2005/1/3 [Reference/Tax] UID:35523 Activity:very high
1/3     I propose a way to compare who's more generous in aiding the tsunami
        victims: calculate the govt and private donations of a country as a
        percentage of its GDP, then rank the countries.
        \_ I propose ranking generosity of people, not governments. -- ilyas
           \_ But then it's hard to compare low-tax countries to high-tax ones.
              \_ Why do you want to compare countries?  -- ilyas
        \_ Wow!  You're a genius!  I wonder why no one has thought of that
           \_ Maybe because the result might not be that pleasing.
              \_ The sarcasm just flew right by ya' there didn't it?
        \_ How much is are the Saudis giving to the relief effort?
2005/1/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:35524 Activity:nil
1/3     do mp3s/wav files burned to an audio disc with whatever
        is built into winxp intentionally sound worse than
        if i used another tool like roxio or a mac?
2005/1/3 [Uncategorized] UID:35525 Activity:nil
1/3     Where is the love ewe that we demanded for njh?  He is lonely! - root
2005/1/3-4 [Computer/Networking] UID:35526 Activity:nil
1/3     Is there a way to get Dish or Cable with just the channels I want?
        I don't need the Shopping or Religious channels, and I don't want
        to pay for them.
        \_ Get a cable splitter, go to your neighbor's cable box... you should
           be smart enough to figure out the rest. - jvarga, troll for the day
           \_ You're a baaad man, jvarga, but yr point is well-taken.
2005/1/3-4 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35527 Activity:high
1/3     The Jaime Kennedy show is COOL! You should've seen Penelope
        Cruz's face when Jaime (pretending to be a reporter) asked her
        if she was a Mexican, and when she said she was Spaniard,
        he asked "What is that? Is that like an European Mexican?"
        \_ Hahahaha, I can imagine...
        \_ Jaime Kennedy, the great latin entertainer? perhaps you mean Jamie.
           \_ "The great latin entertainer?  Is that like an entertainer that
              speaks Latin?"
        \_ Oh the hilarity!
2005/1/3 [Health/Disease/General, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35528 Activity:very high
1/3     New (substantiated?) rumor that the bulge on Bush's back is a LifeVest
        defibrillator.  Apparently has atrial fibrillation, and suffered a
        mini-stroke (2002 Pretzel incident).  Any thoughts?
        \_ More detailed discussion of the defibrillator theory:
           \_ You know, it's crap usage like this that makes people talk about
              "theory" vs. fact.  It's not a theory, it's a steaming pile of
              random speculation.
              \_ "Conspiracy theory" is a pretty commonly used term, and most
                 conspiracy theories are pretty much exactly what you describe.
                 I am using the word "theory" in an identical context here.
                 If you don't like the way the English language has developed,
                 please fuck off and cry to someone else about it.
        \_ Go read "Interface" by Stephen Bury (a pen name for Neal Stephenson)
           at once.
        \_ Sometimes a suit is just a suit.
        \_ I doubt it. If he does in fact have a heart problem that
           requires a defibrillator, he'd have an implantable one like
           every patient with the problem.
                    \_ you're an idiot.   -tom
                       \_ Almost by definition, you have shown that he is not.
2005/1/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35529 Activity:high
1/3     Where does all the money go that people donate? Who distributes it and
        who buys stuff with it? Does it go directly to the area governments?
        \_ Short answer: it depends on where people donate the money.
           \_ ok assume Red Cross since that seems to be the big thing here.
        \_ similar question (I'm not the op), what % of the money I donate
           to Red Cross/Salvation/Good Will goes to admins and what % actually
           gets distributed to the needy?
           \_ Heh.  Good question. -- ilyas
              \_ How much research funding for ilyas' group goes to support to
                 his motd habbit?
                 \_ None.  I work far more hours than I am paid for.
                    There is also the notion that certain kinds of work
                    cannot be adequately measured by hourly rates anyways.
                    Like, say, programming or research.  There is also
                    the matter that you are an idiot. -- ilyas
                    \_ I see.  You're underpaid, so that's the justification
                       for a libertarian living off the taxpayers' nickel.
                       \_ Are you dense?  Didn't we have this conversation
                          already?  Do you not understand that the only people
                          on whom this complaint does NOT work are those who
                          are perfectly happy with the way our current society
                          is.  Because you know, if you happened to NOT like
                          something about society, you almost certainly
                          are benefitting from this feature you don't like in
                          some way, somewhere.  You hypocrite bastard.
                          Too little taxation = more business investment,
                          too much taxation = more public good, etc. etc.
                          Do you think people who conceived of western
                          secular liberalism did not benefit from the
                          fucked up societies they had the misfortune
                          to be born into?  Were they hypocrites to believe
                          in what they did?  You are a pretty sad case even
                          for the motd. -- ilyas
                          \_ I think op is just saying you should practice
                             what you preach.
                             \_ I d be happy to, if ever I am elected into
                                public office.  Wouldn't everybody?  And at
                                any rate, where are the complaints against
                                environmentalists taking advantage of the
                                benefits provided by the evil soulless oil
                                companies?  Liberals pocketing Bush tax cuts?
                                Practice what you preach, bitch!  -- ilyas
                                   \_ Stop bothering me, can't you see I have
                                      a deadline! -- ilyas
                                      \_ My tax cut went straight back to the
                                         DNC.  Stick to talking about things
                                         you know something about, hypocrite.
                                         \_ Except it shouldn't go to the DNC,
                                            Aaron.  It should go back to the
                                            state.  I _wish_ I could spend my
                                            taxes how I want politically.
                                            Dumbass.  -- ilyas
                                            \_ It's about reinvesting the money
                                               into the state rather than
                                               actually spending the money on
                                               myself.  Get a clue, doofus.
                                               \_ So the DNC = the State now?
                                                  Wtf?  Also, who says
                                                  libertarians spend money
                                                  on themselves? -- ilyas
                                                  \_ Who cares if they spend
                                                     money on themselves?  What
                                                     are you babbling about?
                                                     The issue is your willing
                                                     use of state money to
                                                     coast along, despite your
                                                     prolific and long winded
                                                     posts about your
                                                     libertarian Utopian
                                                     ideals.  Hello?  Earth to
                                I'm not libertarian but you're being dumb. _/
                                He was pointing out that a libertarian can
                                choose to invest in the state if he wants,
                                rather than being taxed for it (in theory).
                                \_ He's also being dumb by not answering the
                                   other objections: DNC != State,
                                   environmentalists driving cars,
                                   shopping at republican donor businesses,
                                   etc.  Probably not actually dumb, but
                                   playing dumb for trolling purposes.
                                     -- ilyas
                                   \_ heh, 3 ilyas points, but I still lost the
                                      bet.  well, shucks.
                                      \_ What were the terms of the bet?
                                           -- ilyas
                                         Would you prefer my default reaction
                                         to motd posts be outright dismissal
                                         and derision?  -- ilyas
                \_ don't you think it's amusing to be a hardcore
                   libertarian AND a grad student at the largest public
                   university in the world?  i see a lot of humor in that.\
                   i think you belong at Pepperdine with ben stein. - danh
                   university in the world?  i see a lot of humor in that.
                   i think you belong at Pepperdine with ben stein. - danh
                   \_ I find it no more amusing than seeing you employed
                      at some soul-sucking corp you probably hate.  Actually,
                      I find it quite sad.  And I am not a 'hardcore'
                      libertarian.  I am actually fairly moderate.  Unless
                      it's one of those obligatory adjectives, like
                      'cold-blooded killer.' -- ilyas
                      \_ 'Cold-blooded libertarian' has a nice ring to it,
                         \_ That was the insinuation, yes. -- ilyas
           \_ I remember the Red Cross ranks #1 in this regard.  I don't
              remember the actual numbers though.
              \_ $0.19 to raise $1.00.  9.9% overhead, 91.9% goes to programs.
                 \_ Dont donate to the United Way.  They are terrible.
        \_ On a more positive note, I read in the Economist that each dollar
           spent on charity results in a > 1 dollar net economic benefit.
           That is, 1 dollar spent in helping someone get back to her feet,
           etc. eventually results in a > 1 dollar return (eg. she starts
           contributing to society again).  Don't ask me how the Economist
           did its calculations.
           \-why does this come as a surprise? it is more or less axiomatic.
             charity goes to those with very little and it is just the law
             of diminishing marginal returns. if you want to spend your
             money to go from having no fishing net to having a finshing net
             obviously that has a bigger return than going from gold to
             platinum jewelry. --psb
             \_ Fishing nets won't get you laid; platinum jewelry will.
                \_ Fishing nets catch fish which can be sold for money which
                   can be used to buy platinum which can get you laid.
                \- suffering from amoebic dysentary probably wont either --psb
2005/1/3-4 [Finance/CC] UID:35530 Activity:nil
1/3     Do most sites that require credit cards accept anonymous debit cards?
        \_ How can debit/credit cards be anonymous?
           \_ MasterCard:
              \_ so gift card == anonymous debit card?  Is ther any fee
                 associated with it?
                 \_ yes, there's an activation fee.  it's not terribly cost-
                    effective (unless you buy in quantity), but you can buy a
                    card with cash and it's about as anonymous as you can get.
2005/1/3-5 [Computer/Networking] UID:35531 Activity:kinda low
1/3     So I installed Debian (Sarge) on a home server for various reasons
        (including learning about Apache 2) and have a question:  how do I get
        all the useful information about my machine that I get in Windows with
        ipconfig /all?  And how do I turn DHCP on or off?  Set the host
        \_ ifconfig, man ifconfig for full details. ifup/ifdown to
           turn on/off seperate ethernet controllers. dhcpd is the
                                                      \_ dhcpcd
                                                         \_ It's dhcpd on my
                                                            linux box. Is
                                                            it somehow different
                                                            on yours??
           dhcp daemon, think it's been replaced by dhclient. To turn
           it on and off you need to follow the ifup/ifdown scripts
           and locate the file that pertains to your controller, and
           there will be very obvious commands within that file, i.e.
           dhcp=on/off, onboot=on/off, wifi=on/off etc. Setting the
               \_ /etc/network/interfaces... I think you are thinking
                  of redhat.
           hostname and ip is done through /etc/hosts, first line
           in the file will indicate the name of the localhost, add
           in consecutive lines to set the ip address, etc.
           If you don't want to hack stuff manually I believe that
           debian does support a minimal ncurses gui for this, can't
           remember the name at the moment, someone else fill in the
           blanks. Think it was netconfig, see if you can do a
           bash expansion on it.
2005/1/3-4 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:35532 Activity:moderate
1/3     I have a better question.  What % of tay payer money actually reaches
        it target for expenditure.  For example, for Medicare / Medicaid,
        welfare, education, this is pennies on the dollar.
        \_ I think you need to define your terms more.  And not to be pedantic,
           but 'pennies on the dollar' includes everything short of 100%.  As
           far as 'reaches its target', what counts?  If medicare spends $100
           on a prescription, should you count $100, or the retail price of the
           drug, or the wholesale price, or the manufacturer's cost?  Education
           is even stickier.  Do you count teacher's salaries?  Do you count
           money spent on building maintainance?  What about a principal or
           superintendant's salary?  Or perhaps you're just trying to start
           some flamewar on "the government's wasting MY money!"
           \_ you're an idiot.  -tom
           \_ How about asking the question in terms of staff per customer
              served?  For schools, that would be (# students)/(# persons
              drawing a salary at the state and local level).
              \_ For CA, the ratio seems to be (10 students)/(1 salary
                 drawer).  Just teachers alone the ratio is (21.2 students)/
                 (1 teacher), so the other staff:teacher ratio is almost 1:1.
2019/01/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:January:03 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>