3/3     I have been searching Google and also contacting some friends regarding
        the going rate for a 3 month contracting position that might become
        full time at a big internet company in Mountain View.  The duties
        consist of works for a backend Java and Java-related technologies
        developer.  I have about 5 years of working experience with about 2
        years of Java and Java-related technologies working experience.  I have
        a BS in EECS from Cal.  However, I have never done any contracting work
        before, but have a very broad set of skills, very capable, and very
        fast learner.  The numbers that I found seem a bit high for the current
        market; $100-$200/hr DOE.  Will anyone here point me to some recent
        surveys (2003 or late 2002) and/or provide some comments based on their
        own (or people that know) experiences and also how to best negotiate
        while keeping the door open for the full time conversion?  Thanks!!
        \_ holy sh*t that's a lot of money
           \_ no it isnt.
        \_ DOE is the key.  A fresh-out-of-college type should be happy with
           $40/hr.  A senior with a decade of seasoning and reasonably
           being a contractor so they *have* to charge what looks like an
           obscene amount of money to make it worth it.  The guy I replaced
           was making $300/hr but by in the last few months he was only doing
           an hour or two a day.  Sometimes none.  His only duty was doing
           interviews to repalce himself.  My salary?  20% of his rate plus
           some minor benefits.  If they like you and need you, they'll convert
           your expensive contractor ass as fast as possible, so don't worry
           about that part.  See if you can get them to blink first by making
           an offer or stating a range or something.  If not, then say that
           you'd like $X (I suggest $200/hr) but that the rate really isn't
           the issue since your goal is to convert to FTE after a reasonably
           short time period.
           agressive skills maintainance can expect substantially more.
           Generally we take the FTE equivalent and multiply by 0.75 to get
           a reasonable rate for short term contractors.
                \_ that assumes full time employee
        \_ here's why: contractors get screwed on taxes and benefits and are
           the first to go when heads roll and a bunch of other badness about
           \_ screwed on benefits: true.  screwed on head roll: true
              screwed on taxes, not even close.  Self employment tax comes
              out exactly the same as regular exempt employees making the
              same amount of $$$.
           \_ They suggested a range of $60-$65/hr.  They are really
              low-balling me then? -op
              \_ I've read $1/hour for every $1K/year you'd make on salary.
                 \_ Industry standard is 0.6 to 0.75 these days. -hiring mgr
                \_ As a contractor, you need to cover your own benefits and
                   unemployment insurance (i.e., savings).
                   $1.5-$2/hour for every $1k/year is where I start.
                   \_ assuming you contract for 2k hours per year, this works
                      out to 3 to 4x regular salary for a contract.  i did 3x
                      in '98 '99, and i was close to 4x '00 '01.  i'm down to
                      hmmm 2.5x now.  where are you getting contracts today
                      that are in the 3 to 4x range?
              \_  $60-$65/hour seems really fair now adays.  I've seen rates
                  as low as $40/hour for some senior level contract gigs.
                  Email me if you wanna take it offline --chris
              \_ That's really low for contracting.  I suggest you ask them
                 flat out when/IF you'd convert to FTE and what the salary
                 would be.  If you like the final salary, get them to put it
                 in writing that after X months (I suggest 2-3 max) at their
                 super low-ball rate, they convert you to FTE at the previously
                 agreed upon salary.  If they'll do that and you're happy with
                 the FTE, then consider the contract rate as a sort of
                 probationary period and just do it at whatever rate.  If they
                 won't do that, then your odds of converting are near zero and
                 you should ask for more.  --same long winded person from above
                 \_ This is a silly idea.  If they were willing to commit to
                    a full time hire, they wouldn't be using a contractor
                    probation period in the first place.
                    \_ C2H is pretty common.  I'd be surprised if less than
                       a majority lead to conversion, or end if you suck.
                 \_ Only if you're looking for FTE....
              \_ The big hit is self-employment tax. Basically, you pay your
                 own payroll tax. Plus paying for benes. And you're only
                 paid after you bill. Overhead costs (not including time to
                 do your own paperwork) is easily 30%, less if you want to
                 skimp on benes (ie. covered by spouse insurance, etc.). So
                 $60/hr contract -> $42/hr FTE -> $80K yearly + minor benes.
                 \_ Wrong!  Most bene packages are only worth about $10k/year
                    or less (usually a lot less).
                    \_ Cost to employer is on order of 30% of salary - this
                       includes benefits, sick/vacation/holiday, 401k match
                       if present, and their share of the employment tax.
                       Also, no one is listing 1099 vs W2 contracting.
        \_ Is anyone even able to get a contract job in the past few years?
                -ax
           \_  They are popping up more often now.  I've still got a few
               friends recruiting and that's what I'm seeing/hearing.  --chris
           \_ I just updated my job search profile for the first time in 18
              months and got my first set of new job emails this morning.  It
              looks like 1998 out there for full timers!