8/17 So apropos of the discussion below, do people here think it is
dishonest to leave a degree *off* of a resume, i.e. a phd?
\_ Dishonest? Yes. Does it matter as long as you don't later come
back and ask for better money/title/position/work/etc based on
it? No. I've dropped all the one-off contract jobs from my
resume. Am I dishonest? For the next rewrite I'm going to
drop anything more than 10 years old. Is that dishonest? I
don't remember the titles I had at 2 places so I made one up
that fit what I did. Dishonest? It's just a resume. If you
can't do the job, they'll fire you later. If you can, then so
what? The only place I'd give a full and complete disclosure
is for a security government or financial job where they'll do
a very deep background check and find out everything anyway. As
some random staff techie at a non-security job? Fuck it. Do
whatever you can to improve your chances without adding things
that aren't true.
\_ The day corporations do full disclosure of all their warts
in their offer letter, you might have a case.
\_ No.
\_ Yes, because I will not be happy if I find out the person is
a liar. Lying to your new boss before you even meet him/her is
lame. Find a job that fits you and don't waste my time.
\_ How is replacing phd with MS + 3 years research experience
a lie? Obviously if someone asks what education I have,
I'll say, I'm just talking about what goes on the resume.
Is it dishonest to leave information about one's military
career off of a resume for a programming job? where do
you draw the line?
\_ Why would you even want to leave out a PhD?
\_ Ph.D.'s cost more, and the company might have a bunch
of non-productive degree holders who might bias the hirer
-!op
\_ Why don't you just say you won't demand higher
pay? It's not a good idea to start off lying
to a potential future employer. Even if it is
a lie by omission.
\_ My buddy who has a U. of Chicago law degree
omitted this on his Best Buy application. He's
been working there for almost three years (not
as a corporate guy, but the lowly guys who
help customers with advice). -!op
\_ 1. He's clearly an idiot. 2. He's not
seriously cultivating a career at Best
Buy, is he? If not, then it does not
matter.
\_ In case you didn't get it, this is one
example where it makes sense not to list
a degree -- when it has no relevance to
the position you are applying for
(assuming the lack of any instruction
to list all educational history).
\_ In case *you* didn't get it, Best
Buy is not exactly pertinent to his
career, so what does it matter if
he pisses his boss off or gets
fired? It's not that it makes sense
to omit it. It's that it won't
matter either way.
\_ Maybe it is his career. Maybe he
enjoys what he does and intendeds
to continue.
\_ Listing "+ 3 years research" is questionable if it's what's
led to your Ph.D.
\_ A lot of people would argue that it is not even a lie of
omission, unless HR specifically asks you to list all educational
background. Same goes for previous jobs.
Obviously we disagree: you think you're right, I think I'm
right.
\_ As someone in a position to hire, I will tell you that
I wouldn't like it. You can think you are right all you
want.
\_ Actually, I disagree with you on whether it's a lie of
omission (I say it isn't, and I still think you're wrong
about this), but I agree with you on not
liking it: As someone in a position to hire, I wouldn't
like applicants omitting a Ph.D. if they got one.
To summarize: It's not dishonest, as I originally
said, but your employer probably won't like it.
Part Deux: Be careful how easily you throw around the
label "liar". I wouldn't want to work with someone who
thought like that, but that's just an IMO.
\_ based on all the other stuff that gets posted to the
motd, what are the chances you want to work with
anyone on the motd anyway?
\_ why not? this is all bullshit and venting. do you
think any of these people are *really* like this?
\_ That the motd is a more insulated way to
communicate (i.e. you aren't risking a punch in
the face) does not excuse being a complete
asshole. People who are assholes on the motd
are either
(a) assholes in real life or
(b) too cowardly to be assholes in real life like
they are on the motd.
Either way, would you want to work with them, or
indeed spend any time with them? -- ilyas
\_ yea, whatever, all the ceos are liars anyway.
\_ but they have the hiring money and you don't.
\_ how do you think they become ceos in the first
place?
\_ they all lie on their resumes! of course!
none of them went to a pricey mba school after
clawing their way up the corporate ladder and
destroying the careers of dozens of others on
their way to the top! nononono, they simply
wrote some random shit up on their resume that
no one would check like "senior vp, ibm sales,
world wide, 1987-1996" and bingo! Profit!
\_ Have you read a quarterly report before?
Or go to a Q&A session following an
earnings announcement? It's all about
emphasizing strengths and hiding
weaknesses. Get real.
\_ So if I ask you some questions about your company
during the interview, will you tell the complete
truth and include all the things you hate about your
company?
\_ What the hell does this have to do anything? You
may as well lie and say you have 10 years designing
ASICs when you have 0, right? Why put your real
name on the application? Maybe you should omit your
prison record, too. This last one gets lots of
people fired.
\_ What does it have to do with anything? It tells
me that all the talk about honesty is full of
shit.
\_ Go ahead and omit your time in prison. Hey,
the corporation lies, too. Your ass will
still be fired for it.
\_ well, it hasn't. in fact, I am doing
really well. thanks for your concern
though, corporate dick sucker hypocrite.
\_ What were you imprisoned for?
\_ You lost me. What does the candidate lying about
his background have to do with the company employees
coming clean when asked about the company?
\_ Ask the person I was responding to. |
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