Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:10 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2003/9/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:10127 Activity:kinda low
9/10    http://www.craigslist.org/eby/lbs/15974275.html
        FIX MY APARTMENT BUILDING! -aspo
        \_ Ooooh.. it pays $/hr!
2003/9/10-11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:10128 Activity:high
9/9     Oh crusty old alumni: Tell us younguns if there was ever a time when
        the motd wasn't just trolling or counter-trolling.
        \_ link:csua.org/u/48z -- a soda motd from over ten years ago.
           \_ So then the answer is, no, its always been trolling.  Thanks
              for clearing that up!
              Unless of course, the post at the top was serious.
            \_ Damn I AM old. I can figure out about five of the eight
               nicknames on the "casino-night" reference. Guess which one
               is psb....
            \_ Probably uninteresting piece of CSUA trivia. /etc/motd.public
               was started Spring 1993 (when I was Secretary). I gave the
               motd the lovely "=+=+=+=+=" line soon after (I think it was
               all "-----" before that). I got my idea from a Family
               Computing magazine article on word processing I read in the
               1980s. Someone changed the "+" to "-" a year and a half
               after that. --jsjacob
        \_ "Director's Cut of the Abyss showing at the UC tomorrow night."
           Sniff, brings a tear of nostalgia to my eye.
        \_ I think it's wrong to write off the motd as just trolling.
           when someone i disagree with posts a link or suggests that
           i go read something, i actually read it, and I'm sure i'm
           not the only one.  I've learned alot from this, and have
           changed the way I look at some issues because of it.  i
           read alot more history, political science and economics because
           of the motd, and I'm sure i'm not the only one.  the net
           is full of forums like http://www.freerepublic.com or http://www.indymedia.org
           where people all agree and just sit around shouting about
           how much they agree.  the motd is very rare in that you really
           see *alot* of different points of view here.  if there were more
           forums like the motd we would live in a better world.
           \_ too bad the motd didn't teach you that a lot is two words.
        \_ I think it's gotten a lot more political but I don't think
           I know anyone smart enough to be truly funny and political
           constantly.  The motd used to be a lot more mundane,
           rants about Evans, potsticker jokes, whatever transvestite
           blojo was hanging out with, and how many ways
           you can say 'go stick your head in a big' in different
           computer languages.
        \_ Sometimes it's just boring.  Enjoy the trolls.
        \_ It isn't really trolling when all of us have always been doing it.
           It's just a big game which is why we get annoyed when some people
           censor things.  Why delete the entire game?  It's worse than
           taking your ball and going home.
        \_ I have an RCS archive of the motd going back SEVERAL YEARS.  You
           are welcome to check for yourself.   -ERic
           ps. its in /csua/tmp/mehlhaff/motd_archive and ~mehlhaff/tmp/
        \_ I think it's because the motd has gotten on average older.
           Many are 30+ or pushing 30, got different views, turning old,
           fat, Republican. So of course the topics and cynicism are going
           to increase.
           \- jesus:
              psb  csua  2852 Mar 30  1993 /home/sequent/psb/bin/MakeTeXPK*
              \_ So what?  Some of us (including psb) have accounts that go
                 back to machines that don't exist anymore and haven't for
                 years.  It's just time.  You'll be old one day, too.
                 \_ um, isn't that psb you are replying to?
                 \_ if we're going to play geezer games, how many ocf machines
                    can you name off the top of your head?
2003/9/10 [Recreation/Dating] UID:10129 Activity:nil
9/9     http://pittsburghcitypaper.ws/scripts/printIt.cfm?ref=544
        Gotta love that tolerant color blind society of ours.
        \_ This isn't so much about race as it is about really bad
           journalism.
2003/9/10 [Reference/Military] UID:10130 Activity:nil 50%like:29528
9/9     Fighting censorship!  MOTD RESTORED.
2003/9/10 [Computer/SW/P2P, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:10131 Activity:nil
9/9     RIAA Rocks! They got $2,000 off of the girl who liked "nursery
        rhymes"!
        \_ urlP
           \_ http://csua.org/u/48n
              \_ A 12-year-old living in the projects who misunderstood
                 copyrights, and they got $2000.  I think I start file
                 swapping just on principle for that one....
                 \_ Lets boycott the mainstream music industry.  Stop buying
                    albums.
                    \_ I think not.  That felon shared over 1,000 copyrighted
                       songs.  And you tell me she didn't have an idea it
                       was wrong.
        \_ Anyone knows how many song she downloaded or stored on her PC?
           \_ I read it was over 1200.
        \_ i threw out all my Metallica albums cuz they were at the
           forefront of this wussiness.
           \_ of course, it's very convenient that metallica had already
              started to suck by the time napster happened.
              And Justice For All was their last decent album.
              \_ Started to suck?  They *always* sucked.  All that changed
                 is you got old enough and your taste improved enough to
                 see it.
           \_ That's probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
           \_ albums you already paid for?  yeah that'll hurt them.
        \_ why don't the go after the $29.99 guys instead?
           \_ duh, they've got lawyers
        \_ So, motd oracles, explain this to me:  if I rip CDs that I own
           and share them on my hard-drive, will the RIAA have a case?  Or
           does it have to be a case of mp3s I've obviously dl'd from another
           user?  And if I can't share mp3s I've ripped myself, is it even
           legal for me to be making mixed tapes/CDs for friends?  For my
           own use?  And does any of this hold any legal water or is it all
           a case of "comply or we'll bankrupt you with legal fees"?
                \_ Look, cut the semantics, just turn yourself in.
                   Criminal.  -John
                   \_ Ah, I see.  I'll just report to the nearest security
                      booth for termination, shall I, friend Computer? ;-)
                \_ Yes, no, maybe, yes, yes.
        \_ you want to stop the RIAA, help develop a celestial file sharing
           program.  broadcast/relayed queries, distributed archiving in an
           encryped partial format (so nobody knows what they've really
           cached), and swarm file downloading via UDP, ICMP, or other
           connectionless protocols with obfuscated and/or FORGED or SOURCE
           IP ADDRESSES.  It'd be nigh-unto-impossible to track where a file
           came from.  They'd have to find a way to sue the entire internet.
           Good luck RIAA.
        \_ Fight the Power. Music yearns to be Free.
           \_ Not while it's in the vested interests of the big labels to
              keep it in chains:
              http://www.taxi.com/transmitter0307/tips0307.html
2003/9/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Investment] UID:10132 Activity:high
9/10    How many libertarians does it take to change a light bulb?
        None, the invisible hand will do it.
        \_ Bzzt.  It's my light bulb, and I'll fix it when I goddamn want to,
           not when it suits the government.
           \_ ...and if you can't afford a lightbulb, it's your own damn fault
              for not being an overpaid dickhead sysadmin.  As long as my taxes
              are low, i don't give a damn if you freeze in the dark, you
              fucking plebe.
              \_ p.s. - I'm gonna go eat another Top Dog. I heart Ayn Rand
                 \_ ...but I don't feel any compulsion to pay for her books
                    when I can dl them off the net for free.
2003/9/10 [Uncategorized] UID:10133 Activity:insanely high
9/10    Troll Alert: Any predictions on the latest tit-for-tatting being done
        in Israelestine?
        \_ They should take off and nuke the site from orbit. Its the only
                way to be sure.
        \_ Does it amuse you that people are dying on both sides?
           Are you saying that we should nuke Iraq, Iran, and the Saudis also?
           \_ Did you misindent? I think it's getting out of control and is
              horrible (on both sides)... I'm wondering if others think it's
              going to escalate and die off, someone will get thrown out of
              office, arafat exiled, etc...
              \_ i predict that if there is ever peace, it will only be
                 when Arafat is dead.
        \_ I predict some Israelis will kill some Palestinians. In respone,
           some Palestinians will kill some Israelis. Each will accuse the
           other of savage brutality.
        \_ I don't want tats, but I'm all for tits.
2003/9/10-11 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:10135 Activity:nil
9/10    I have AvantGo on my PDA and on one computer.  I installed AvantGo
        on a 2nd computer.  But the hot-sync manager on the 2nd computer
        doesn't list AvantGo as a conduit.  How do I get it to list AvantGo
        as a conduit?
2003/9/10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:10136 Activity:very high
9/10    Deleting is not the answer.
        \_ Official motd policy is here:
           /csua/adm/doc/policies/motd
           "Destruction of the MOTD (by repeated deletion, jive, or any other
           method) is severly frowned upon and will result in the termination
           of your account."
           \_ "The MOTD may not be used for non-University business."
              I haven't see any University-related business here in a long
              time.
              \_ "-" binds more tightly than " ".
              \_ Nor have I seen non-University BUSINESS.  No commerce or
                 transactions are made.
           \_ Democracy for sale. Contact gwbush@whitehouse.gov or
              gdavis@ca.gov. Price negotiable.
              \_ Effective legal immigrant status for sale to relatives and
                 friends of illegal immigrants.  Items include free medical
                 friends of illegal immigrants.  Product includes free medical
                 care, free education, valid ID.  Upgrades to include voting
                 rights and Social Security benefits possible.  Contact any
                 Price in terms of vote counts negotiable.
                 pro-"immigrant" politician (pro-illegal-immigrant in reality).
                 Price in vote counts negotiable.  Offer valid while tax
                 revenue lasts.
2003/9/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Investment] UID:10137 Activity:very high
9/10    http://csua.org/u/492   (news.yahoo.com)
        Alabama voters suckered into voting down modest tax hike.  School
        programs in jeopardy.  Only the rich and middle class would have paid
        for it but polls showed only mixed support among blacks and lower
        income voters!  This is appalling!  I blame the media for this
        travesty!
        \_ 19% of Americans think that they are in the top 1% of wage earners
           and 20% more think that they *will* be in that top 1% within their
           lifetime... this should help explain why so many Americans like
           Bush's tax policy (Source: Economist)
                              \_ could you elaborate on where I can find this?
                                 \_ I read it in this week's print edition.
           \_ Wow, I've always thought this sort of thing was true but I've
              never seen numbers to back it up.  What a sorry bunch of
              delusional wage slaves.
           \_ Damn, now that I thought about this a little further, that's
              just pathetic.  I believe the top decile is around $80k, correct
              me if I'm wrong, so there are people that make under $80k that
              believe they're in the top 1%?
              \_ You were close, top 20% of households is at $83.5k:
                 http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/h01.html
                 Oops, I actually used real data on the motd? I hope my account
                 doesn't get sorry'd.
                 \_ what do they mean by household income?  I make 90k and
                    my hubby makes 80k.  does that mean our household income
                    is 170k?
                    \_ Yes, and those numbers would put you in the top 5%, so
                       now you can stick it to the rest of us!  (Does anyone
                       have figures for the top 4%, 3%, 2%, 1% so that we can
                       see how, for the lack of a better word, asymptotic it
                       gets?)
                    \_ 90k and 80k doing what? How long does it take to get
                       there?
                       \_ The real question is how to break that barrier. 100k
                          is easy. 200k is much harder.
                       \_ I was making $85k/yr as a sysadmin 5 years out
                          of college. This was the boom years though.
           \_ so what is the range of gross income for a middle class?
              $40k-80k? If someone who can afford a $50k car does that qualify
              him/her as a well off middle class or upper class?
              \_ http://ferret.bls.census.gov/macro/032002/faminc/new07_000.htm
                 The poverty line is $18k for a family of four, so the bottom
                 of what is the middle class must be much lower, unless you
                 think half of America is "poor."
                 \_ The federal pvoery definition is so out of whack that most
                    social and economics statistics reporting work around with
                    stats like % within n multiples of poverty line.
                     -- ulysses, whose wife writes socioeconomic
                       studies for a living.
                     \_ Fine then, most of America is poor by your very
                        odd definition of it. Look at the tables. 13% of
                        Americans live in families that make below the
                        poverty levels. Most people who live in families
                        with incomes of $25k think of themselves as
                        "middle class", no matter how much self-entitled
                        Cal students and grads would piss and moan at having
                        to survive on it.
        \_ "866,623 people opposed [it] while 416,310 voted for it" ???
            There are roughly 1.3 million people in Alabama? Isn't that a
            pretty low voter turn out?
            \_ voter turnout in this country is always low
        \_ I find this site illuminating:
           http://www.lcurve.org
                \_ retarded. or should i say...
                   you are so obviously a fat sysadmin.
                   \- note by the way: you should not just focus on income
                      but wealth also. e.g. i know some modestly paid
                      teacher in the silicon valley who have lived there
                      since the 60 or early 70s and owned millions of
                      dollars in real-estate. note also there are some
                      well-defined groups for whom current income is
                      artificially low. like some law/med/engineering
                      graduate students. does anyone know which congressman
                      suggested changing the exempt amount before the "death
                      taxes" kicked in to $100m to shut up the people talking
                      about the farmers and small business owners?
2003/9/10-11 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:10138 Activity:very high
9/10    To koreans on soda: my grandpa heard about this massage machine made
        by Ceragem and become curious.  Is it really effective or is it
        harmless snake oil?  The info. brochure talks about qi flowing and
        energy channel, btw.
        \_ snake oil.
        \_ Koreans population in general has had reputation for getting
           suckered into all sorts of snake oils.  My father believes
           *everything* he reads in Korean newspapers.
           \_ it's not limited to them. this is a worldwide phenomenon.
              There is slightly less gullibility in Europe/Japan.
              \_ I wouldn't call how Koreans handle things necessarily
                 gullible, just mindless lemmings who do what they're told.
                 To anyone who's been to S. Korea lately, are they still
                 nuts regarding "wonderous health regimen" stuff like drinking
                 raw chicken blood and sucking intestinal juices of live bear?
2003/9/10-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:10139 Activity:nil
9/10    Senior software engineer opening at Yahoo!:
        "We are looking for a experienced, self-motivated engineer to join the
        team to work on local search. You'll be a member of a team design and
        implement all aspect of a distributed system for location based
        content. Applicant should have BSCS/MSCS, 5+ years industrial
        experience, excellent communication skills. Extensive experience in
        C/C++, Perl, MySQL, Apache, XML on UNIX platform is required. Knowledge
        of PHP and geographical information system(GIS) is a plus."
        - Please send resume or questions to eyip
        \_ Don't they mean 'industry experience'?  Or do they want someone who
           has been a factory worker?
        \_ Sounds like they want a geography major who is also a programming
           guru.  But wait, they say they want a BS/MS in CS.  But *none* of
           them will have GIS skills which are very specific to geographers
           and only a subset of those.  They don't know what they want and
           won't find it, especially now that the market is tightening up.
           A big "fuck you!" to all employers with insane job requirements for
           the last 3+ years.
            \_ dude, chill.  they just said it is a "plus", not a requirement
               and i'm sure there are muliple coders out there who have worked
               with GIS because they aren't the first to write related code.
               \_ Plus always means required.  And required means must have
                  all bizarre and unrelated skills at 100%.  And oh yeah, we
                  didn't really have funding for that job anyway, we're just
                  trying to fool our competitors into thinking we're doing
                  better than we really are.
                  \- helo, i dont think that is ness true. i'm not a cs major
                     or geography major but i have some "gis experience"
                  \- i dont think that is really true. i'm not a cs major or
                     a geography major but i have some "gis experience"
                     [ooh, bad flashback]. the commercial software isnt
                     that well written [the unix platform stuff was really
                     leem. it was eventually moved to windows and i got off
                     of the project] so maybe the expectations are low in
                     this area. a lot of statisticians use this stuff and
                     they do a lot of programming, so while maybe it will
                     coalescing on low latency paths but i dont think
                     be rare to find someone who knows a *lot* about GIS
                     and know a lot about say the effects of interrupt
           \_ there has been at least one reasonable berkeley hack who
              graduated with a geography degree, so the combination exists.
                     coalescing on low latency networks but i dont think
                     general programming experience and moderate GIS exp
                     is particularly rare. ok tnx.
2003/9/10-11 [Reference/BayArea] UID:10140 Activity:nil
9/10    What's a good store in SF/Berkeley to buy good, cheap sunglasses?
        I used to get them at Bancroft Clothing, but their selection
        sucks now.
2003/9/10-11 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:10141 Activity:moderate
9/10    Business school or law school. What's better for a geek's career?
        \_ porn school.
           \_ How about joining the Human Sexuality Dept.?
        \_ A real geek wouldn't consider either one.
           \_ not true
        \_ B-school. Not that you wouldn't succeed in law school, but it's
           much less useful for doing anything except, well, pretty much, law.
           \_ That's absolutely false.  I know a number of guys that went on
              to very successful business careers in the private sector (w/o
              going to B-School).  I also know a couple of guys that went into
              law enforcement with law degrees.  Knowing the law is far more
              useful than you give it credit for.
           So if you want to be a lawyer, go to law school. For anything else,
           b-school. You'll learn something and perhaps more importantly,
           meet a lot of talented motivated people with diverse backgrounds
           (depending on your b-school). And they will be thrilled to meet
           a techie person who actually understands techie things, since
           many of them will be interested in careers at technical companies.
           \_ Talented, motivated people with diverse backgrounds?  What is
              this school you speak of?  A close friend of mine went to a
              top five business school and met only idiots and middle managers
              clamoring to move into upper-middle management.  I apologize for
              my sarcasm, which is borne primarily out of skepticism.  Did you
              or someone you know have a different experience?  If so, where?
              \_ I thought the same thing before I visited a friend at
                 Harvard. He was ChemE at Cal, and I was really impressed
                 with the class I went to with him. All the students came
                 from different backgrounds ... investment banker here, govt
                 civil service person there, farmer over here, engineer over
                 there. Very thoughtful discussion, and what was neat was
                 that everyone spoke with a different perspective. So the
                 discussion was very interesting, and I completely changed
                 my mind on business school. I would have liked Harvard.
                 BTW, my understanding is there's a top-3 (Stanford, Harvard,
                 Wharton) and a all-others, and it's a huge gap between top-3
                 and all-others.
                 \- what about kellog? also the diff school have diff
                    flavors. like case approach vs. theory [uchi] etc.
                    \_ There's a number of solid next-tier schools ...
                       Kellogg is one, also Fuqua, Darden, Sloan, Haas, etc.
                       But seriously, no matter what weird ranking might
                       jumble them up, the top 3 are definitely the top 3
                       with a big gap between. You'll rarely/never find anyone
                       who turns down Stanford/Harvard/Wharton for anything
                       else at all. The other schools are consolation prizes.
                       \- ok if you say so. http://mba.eiu.com
2003/9/10 [Uncategorized] UID:29526 Activity:high
9/9     am i the only one who has to poop every time he reads Dilbert
        this week?
        \_ yes.
2003/9/10 [Reference/Religion, Health/Men] UID:29527 Activity:very high
9/9     Why isn't penile circumcision on minors illegal? They are being
        subjected to ritualistic cosmetic surgery without any form of
        consent, especially in the case of infants. I mean seriously.
        There is legal paranoia about so many things why not this?
        \_ Because you're a troll
        \_ http://dir.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/10/26feature.html
        \_ Kill the Jews!
           \_ I was cut and am not a Jew.
              \_ But I'll bet you know one!  Kill the Jews!
                 \_ Ok I'm convinced. let's start with you.
        \_ Kids are not capable of consent. Parents make their decisions for
           them. That is the way the world works. --dim
           \_ therefore if parents want to mutilate them, it's OK?  Get a clue.
              \_ How about earrings? Should girls have to wait until 18?  --dim
                \_ Parents should not wantonly pierce their kids against
                   the kids' will.  If the kid wants a piercing, more power
                   to them. -tom
                   \_ The point here is that the kid has no power of consent.
                      Whether they want a piercing or a tattoo is not relevant.
                      \_ You don't understand the concept of consent.  The
                         kid can't "consent" to a tattoo withour their
                         guardian's consent--but that doesn't mean the
                         guardian can consent for them.  -tom
                         \_ actually, yes, it does.
                      \_ Do you think parents should be allowed to tattoo and
                         pierce their young children? They may not have legal
                         consent, but they have rights.
                         \_ Yes, they should be allowed to unless the act can
                            be demonstrated to be cruel or unusual. That's
                            what this hinges on. Is circumcision cruel and
                            unusual? One side says it is and the other not.
                            Most people (as with earrings) think it is not.
        \_ umm. they're doing you a favor dude, how many girls wanna
           you know what to a uncircumsized weanie.
        \_ I'm a little ignorant here, but are there health issues for or
           against circumcision? Also, I knew Jews get circumcized, but what
           about Catholics, Mormons, Christians, and Moslems? Buddhists?
                                                     \- you dont know whether
                                              moslems are circumcized? --psb
           \_ It's a very "American" thing to do. In most cases religion
              has nothing to do with it. It's societal.
              \_ Religion (Christianity) has a lot to do with what is
                 considered "American". It is of religious origin.
           \_ Not really. Certainly nothing life endangering. One could also
              say we should chop off kids' fingers because they use them to
              pick up bottles of poison.
           \_ It is easier to keep clean and cancer risk is lower but it isn't
              like you'll die sterile at age 24 if you're not.  It's like
              jogging.  You're better off if you do but if you don't, hey.
           \_ Hindus do not believe in circumcision.
        \_ Circumcision pics: http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell
              \_ But sensitivity is relevant premature ejaculation.
           \_ My mom put me thru all these when I was 11 in Hong Kong.
        \_ It reduces sensitivity, which means that teenage boys might be
           slightly less of horndogs... maybe this will make them better
           in bed, maybe worse...
           \_ Bullshit. Americans are not less horny than Euros for example.
              Sensitivity is irrelevant to horniness.
              \_ But sensitivity is relevant to premature ejaculation.
                 \_ Prove it.
                    \_ You feel better, you cum earlier.  Isn't it?
                       \_ how do you know it's not just "you feel better"?
           \_ More than sensitive enough to cum a few times a day.  --cut guy
        \_ I had a circumcision like 2 years ago due to a medical condition
           where my foreskin started losing its elasticity.  I got my dick
           stuck, and had to go to ER.  After that, the doctor told me I
           need to circumcize.  It wasn't a fun experience.
        \_ My dad had a circumcision when he was 50-something.
2003/9/10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:29528 Activity:nil 50%like:10130
9/9     Fighting censorship!  MOTD RESTORED.
        Since we are already in Iraq, we might as well invade
        Iran:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3088962.stm
        \_ terrorist link and weapon of mass destruction... yes!
           time to establish democratic state like what we already have
           done in Afghanistan and Iraq.
           \_ cookie?
2003/9/10 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:29529 Activity:nil
9/10    Stupid question: how do I reference a C callback?
        int mycompare(void const *a, void const *b) { ... }
        qsort(msg, sizeof(Msg), numMsgs, mycompare);
        I get
        "Type error in argument 4 to `qsort'; calling convention mismatch."
        \_ There's nothing wrong in the you reference it.  However, you should
           make the mycompare() prototype match exactly with what qsort() wants
           in its prototype.  Exactly what it wants depends on your machine
           and your compiler.  Check the .h file that you're including.
           \_ Yeah, I just realized that it compiles w/ gcc... I have some
              problems, apparently. --op
2003/9/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:29530 Activity:insanely high
9/10    Over the last few months, I've noticed occasional noise from my
        neighbor downstairs at times when I'm trying to sleep.
        Twice, or maybe 3 times, in the last 4 or 5 months, I banged
        on the floor at hours after midnight and immediately the
        volume on the TV or whatever it was went way down.  I took
        that to mean he hadn't realized that the noise was disturbing
        to me.  In any case, the other day, at like 6 am, he had
        his bathroom fan (the head of my bed shares a wall with my
        bathroom, which is directly over his) on for like 20 minutes
        and it woke me up a lot earlier than I planned to get up.
        After no response from banging on the floor, I went downstairs
        to kindly ask him to turn it off, figuring he had no idea
        it was disturbing me and would have no problem turning it
        off.  In any case, when I rang the doorbell and asked him
        to turn off the bathroom fan, his response (without opening
        the door) was "Why!?".  My response was "Because it's loud,
        5 feet from my head, and I'm trying to sleep." His response was
        a somewhat hostile "what about when you're making noise?
        I don't bitch and moan about it then".  My response was
        "When was I making too much noise?  Seriously.  You should
        tell me about it so I know if I'm disturbing you."  He
        finally mentioned something about I was stomping around in
        the morning sometimes (I'm not usually an early riser, but
        I am up early on occasion).  Then he turned off the fan and
        walked away from the door without saying he was sorry or
        anything remotely polite or civil.  He was totally rude.
        Anyway, it's happened to me at least twice before, years
        ago at a different place, that a downstairs neighbor knocked
        on my door late at night and asked me to turn down the music
        or stop using the vacuum cleaner or whatever.  And I said
        I was sorry and turned off the noise and everyone was happy.
        Anyway, my question is, was this guy being a total ass hole,
        and/or was I being at all unreasonable?  Also, do you think
        my "stomping" around in the morning was really pissing him
        off, or was he just pissed that I was bugging him to turn
        his noisy fan off.  I really don't want to disturb him, but
        I also don't want to be extra quiet for nothing.  I figure
        if it was really a problem that that I was stomping around
        in the morning, then he should have let me know before.  If
        anyone has had a similar situation/conflict in the past,
        is there any action I can take to diffuse the situation,
        or any advice you can give me?  He seemed pretty pissed off
        when I knocked on his door.  I've never met him face to
        face.  He knows who I am from seeing me in the peep hole
        when I knocked on his door.  I think I know who he is, but
        I'm not sure.
        \_ must...resist...urge to delete...idiocy...
        \_ TV noise after midnight is one thing, but a bathroom fan at 6am
           shouldn't be blamed on him.  6 am is the normal get-ready-for-work
           time for a lot of people.  He can't help that the wall transfers
           sound the way it does.  In this case, I'd consider you the
           ass.
        \_ don't bang on the floor.  I did it too.  Just walk down and
           knock.  Agree on trying to keep some quiet hours during the
           work week.
        \_ maybe you are a whiny bitch you can't handle a little bit of
           noise.  If you need total quiet get a house.  Apartment noise
           is a fact of life and not being able to handle a bathroom fan
           means you need to learn how to be a sounder sleeper.
           \_ Hear hear.  Dear god, if an occasional bathroom fan is the
              height of your troubles, you must have really been in the
              exclusive apartment complexes.
        \_ Learn to wear earplugs.
             \_ OK, so I was being over sensitive and shouldn't have
                made a big deal about the bathroom fan.  Had I known
                his reaction, I obviously would have handled the
                situation differently.  I was quite confident that it
                wasn't going to even be an issue, or I wouldn't have
                gone downstairs.  But a big part of my question is,
                does anyone have any advice of what to do or not to do
                so that the situation doesn't escalate.  He seemed more
                pissed off than he ought to be given the situation.
                I'm not saying he was wrong, but he was far from civil
                \_ dude, just forget about it. he's not friendly to someone
                   who comes whining about his bathroom fan. deal.
                or neighborly about it.
                \_ dude, just forget about it. it sounds like the incident
                   is over. if he can't even open up his door to talk to you
                   there's no point worrying about it.
                        \_ thanks.
                \_ Your civility ended with your banging on the floor.
                   When I was in sk00l, I got pissed off as hell when
                   people did it to me, but then again, I think I started it.
                     \_ The idea of banging on the floor is that if he's
                        sitting around in his underwear, he doesn't need
                        to get up and go to the door.  Even though it
                        sounds uncivil, isn't it more practical?
                        \_ stop making excuses and go down there and knock
        \_ My apt mgr went to talk to the Cal Rugby neighbors upstairs who
           were rough-housing and playing music at 3am on Thurs
           nite and got the shit kicked out of him. And these guys
           are the ones who complain if you have ANY music on during
           finals week.
2003/9/10-11 [Uncategorized] UID:29531 Activity:nil
9/10    To anyone interested in the qsort problem mentioned earlier-- I
        needed a special macro that basically expanded to __cdecl + other
        stuff.  Thanks for the help.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:10 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>