Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:April:13 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/4/13 [Politics/Foreign] UID:13164 Activity:low
4/13    Reminder, Band of Brothers playing on the History Channel for
        the next few days.
        \_ You white racist fuck!  You censored my comments about your hateful
           white pride minority and women oppressing propaganda crap show!
        \_ Wow.  Wish I'd known this a few days ago (started Sunday)
                \_ you're welcome
           \_ can't you just borrow or buy the DVD?  Or Tivo it?
        \_ Glorifying old dead white man's violence of the young, minorities,
           women, and the poor.  It's sickening that you'd encourage people
           to watch a mini series about the invasion of a foreign land which
           had done *nothing* to us at *any* point in history which was
           guaranteeing our friends and allies around the world would hate us
           even more.
        \_ uh, why do you guys like to see heads blown off to pieces?
           It's just like Saving Private Ryan (and it's directed by
           Spielberg and Hanks), but it's 10 hours instead of 2.
2004/4/13 [Reference/History, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Kinney, Computer/SW] UID:13165 Activity:nil
4/13    Which idiot reinstated kinney's account? Motd's been crazy in the
        past few days and it's attributed to the idiot who reinstated his
        \_ Behold! He has arisen from the dead! Now he walks the ancient land
           of Babylon, reporting divine truth. Do not harden your heart against
           the Kinney. /csua/tmp/motd.kinney has prophesied his coming.
2004/4/13 [Uncategorized] UID:13166 Activity:nil
4/13    Bunch of MOTD stuff restored.  Fuck you, nuker.  -John
        \_ I think this is a newer version. Yours appeared to be
           from before the crash today.
           \_ Sorry--just cuntpasted from Mehlhaff's archive.  -John
2004/4/13 [Finance/Investment] UID:13167 Activity:high
4/13    You know things are bad when Mr. Greenspan start acting like
        a mortgage saleman asking americans to go for ARM intead
        of FIXED.
        \_ Care to elaborate for us non-economists?
           \_ This guy's referring to an article that was motd'd recently.
              In that article, they point out
              that Greenspan knows that the whole recovery is being fueled
              by consumer debt spending, which is fueled by consumers taking
              equity out of their house.  But most everyone's refinanced
              already to fixed--and so the recovery is jeapordized.  If
              Greenspan can get the consumer to refinance again--to an ARM,
              they'll have more money to spend.  And they will--Americans
              being the dumb "must have what I want NOW" fools that we are.
              \_ So if you switched to an ARM, you'd have lower mortgage
                 payments in the short term, so more spending money, but then
                 you get screwed in a year or two when interest rates go back
                 up.  Is that it?
                 \_ Yes.
                 \_ The main thing is why greenspan feels the need to get
                    involve with this, which is really weird.  shows
                    that he is not confident in the recovery at all.
                    \_ Fed Chairman's job is not to feel confident about
                       anything or to project his own confidence to the
                       country.  His job is to try to keep the economy in
                       a good shape.
                       \_ yea, but encouraging people to go for another
                          refinance from fixed to arm makes him look
                          desperate, and make things look dire.  Is
                          the economy really that bad?
2004/4/13 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:13168 Activity:high
4/13    What's your favorite cliche about real estate?
        \_ Location, location, location!
           \_ Price, condition, location:  choose two.
           \_ This is more true in non-Bay Area places where housing is more
              available.  I live in the burbs and the real estate agents are
              going door to door looking for sellers.  I'm in a terrible
              location yet prices keep going up due to zero supply.
              \_ when the market is going up and up, of course there
                 will be zero supply.  supply will become plentiful
                 when the market is going down and down.  it's a
                 speculator market now.
        \_ "The Bay Area housing market will never collapse."
           \_ It hasn't yet.
              \_ Although it does make some noticeable readjustments every
                 once in a while.
        \_ It has gone down once in my lifetime. And after that
           it recovered. Oops, that's not a cliche! I've been trolled!
           \_ Learn how to indent your posts properly.
        \_ I can't afford a home here.
           \_ You can afford a lot more than you think.  Talked to a mortgage
              broker yet?
                 \_ Well, a comparable rent is probable closer to $1200, but
                    still...  With taxes, interest and insurance, the cost
                    of a $100k is about $750/mo.
              \_ Why would I want to buy a condo at $350k when I can rent
                 something comparable for $900/month?
                 \_ A 350k condo would probably have a comparable rental for
                    $1200, but your point remains valid.  100k of purchease
                    price carries about $750/mo in mortgage, taxes and
                    insurance, so the condo would cost you $2626/mo.
                    \_ Keep in mind all that interest is tax-deductible
                 \_ here in chicago burbs, I just bought a condo at a good,
                    easily rentable location for $150k.  current tenant
                    is paying $985/month.  I am quite worried price of condo
                    may fall but then mortgage and extras is like $200 per
                    month lower than my current rented apartment after tax
                    savings, so as long as I am not forced to sell, I guess
                    it's ok.   OTOH, $350k sounds like a risky bet that
                    property will appreciate especially if you can only
                    get $900-1200 rent for it.
              \_ You squished some people's changes.  Please consider motdedit.
        \_ Why rent?
        \_ Bay Area homes are overprices.
           \_ how do you know?  People were saying that in 1998, back when
              my house was worth half what it is worth now.
                 \_ single-family wooden homes are about the safest structure
                    in an earthquake.
                    \_ 'safest' is a relative term.
                       \_ Hmm. I'd like to see a URL on this, if you don't
                          mind. I'm not structural, but the statement you are
                          maybe-ing is exactly consistent with what I got in my
                          seismic exam. Cross-bracing helps, certainly, but
                          wooden frame houses are pretty good regardless and
                          much better than most of the alternatives or so we
                          were told in class.
                           -- ulysses (P.E.)
                    \_ Maybe.  But only if it has good cross-bracing.
        \_ No money down!
           \_ Works on contingency?  No, money down.  --Lionel Hutz
2004/4/13-14 [Transportation/Misc] UID:13169 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
4/13    motorcycle parts online. cheap. ??
        \_ yes!  ..
        \_ bike bandit?  Sometimes a little cheaper, sometimes you can get
           local shops to match.  Fremont Cycle Salvage? (depending on what
           you're looking for).
        \_ uh, did you drop your bike? and how?
           \_ I did, but that was a while ago.  I ran it into a deer up above
              the football stadium.  Right now though, I'm first looking for
              a battery which died over winter in yet another not so subtle
              mesg. from God that i'm getting old.  (I never used to stop
              riding all winter).  -top.
              \_ Battery Specialists on San Pablo, check
              \_ Would you really order a battery via online?  Isn't it messy
                 w.r.t. the acid? (seems easier to just go to cyclegear).
           \_ DROP BIKE!
              \_ ERASE HARDDRIVE!
2004/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:13170 Activity:nil
4/13    A while back I asked how to get curl to download files protected by a
        login.  The files I was interested in were protected by cookies.  Turns
        out curl uses the same cookies format as Netscape (and Mozilla and
        Firefox).  So you can just use log into the website with Firefox and
        use the cookies.txt file as input to curl:
        curl -b cookies.txt "URL" > out
        \_ you can make one request using curl -c to save it to a file then use
           curl -b like how you have it.
2004/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13171 Activity:kinda low
4/13    Does anyone know how to case a java object in the JNI?  I have
        a situation where I have to create an object of type (CLASS) but
        return type (INTERFACE).  I need to be able to do a java cast in
        the JNI.  thanks -jrleek
        \_ Is there a reason you can't wrap the JNI method in a regular
           Java method in your public API and have the regular Java method
           do the cast?
        \_ I recommend using JACE rather than using JNI directly.
2004/4/13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:13172 Activity:high
4/13    Who on this csua board are still in the software industry? Doing
        programming more specifically.
        $40k - $60k:
        $60k - $80k:...
        \_ great.  usually, when surveys come up, there is usually
           bragging: I make > $120k with only one year experience!
           \_ Now who's bragging, braggart?
              \_ I make over $120k with over 10 years experience.  Is that
                 bragging or useful information for others?
              \_ I'm not bragging.  I'm just showing an example of someone
                 who brags and the type of statements they make.
              \_ I'm not bragging.  I'm just citing an example of a person
                 who brags.
        $80k - $100k:..
        $100k+: .
        $666k: .
        \_ wow.  i did not realize salaries have come down that much.
           \_ the people making real money are too busy to fuck around on the
              motd.  also Cal grads tend to underprice themselves in the
              market.  $60k-$80k is ridiculous for anyone has more than 1 year.
           \_ Berkeley grads make $20k more than the prevailing wage. I read
              it on the motd.
        \_ Is there an industry wide salary survey for programmers, similar
           to the SAGE salary survey for sysadmins?
           \_ has something similar. as well. Don't
              know how accurate the latter is.
2004/4/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:13173 Activity:nil
4/13    Hi, just a general note, I never censor replies to my posts. -- ilyas
        \_ that's nice.  whatever.
           \_ I would have put this in the appropriate thread where someone
              accused me of doing this, but that thread got censored.  However,
              I felt the need to say it.  I ll leave debate by censorship to
              the authoritarians.  -- ilyas
2004/4/13-14 [Recreation/Humor] UID:13174 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
4/13    President's personal copy of August 6th, 2001 PDB:
2004/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:13175 Activity:high
4/13    How much C++/C knowledge do recent Berkeley CS/EECS grad have?
        \_ Class CSGrad inherits FromDaddy and does not implement C++Knowledge
           very well.
           \_ funny.  just the rich and poor as always.  the middle class can't
              afford education.
        \_ They know how to deal with pointers and addresses, malloc and free.
           They also know OO.  Understanding the intricacies of how C++ bridges
           those two worlds is up to the individual, and probably picked up
           fairly quickly.
           \_ "Nobody understands C++."  C++ is big enough that it swallows
              other languages (for instance it has a small functional language
              completely embedded in the template syntax alone).  -- ilyas
              \_ This is just plain silly.  C++ has esoterica and dark corners,
                 but the vast bulk of it is easily understood with some effort
                 and training.
                 \_ 'Easily.'  It will take you many years to write efficient,
                    maintainable C++ code.  It will take many more years to
                    be a 'guru'.  I am not sure any one person understands
                    all of C++.  I will grant you that the 'java subset' of C++
                    is easy enough.  Even an 'easier' language like java has
                    some things that give even experienced people pause
                    (anonymous inner classes, etc). -- ilyas
           \_ written by someone who apparently doesn't know much c++. the
              real intricacies of c++ are not picked up fairly quickly, which
              is one of the major issues people have with it. it is big, and
              hard (no porno comments, please). to answer the op though, as a
              recent grad, i claim that the vast majority of berkeley eecs/cs
              people have a pretty shallow knowledge of c or c++, partly
              because almost all the classes have a java option now.
              \_ Well put it this way: it's pretty easy to pick up a few simple
                 rules that reduce C++ to a simple(r) productive language.
                 \_ which still isn't C++.
              \_ Um, no, they don't know how to deal with pointers, addresses,
                 malloc or free.  Most *typical* Berkeley CS grads in the last
                 three or four years couldn't tell their ass from a pointer
                 and stare blankly at you if you say ``memory management.''
                 A lot of nonsense goes on in the CSUA, but I will say that
                 most recent grads who kicked around a little with the CSUA
                 have at least an acceptable level of understanding of C, and
                 some may show passable C++ knowledge. -dans
                 \_ Mostly correct I'm afraid.  I learned C++ through my
                    research, not my classes, and I would barely classify
                    my knowledge as passable.  (We used a garbage
                    collector, I felt like I was cheating)
        \_ not as well as they used to say 5-8 years ago.  but given that
           the department always says "we're not here to teach you languages,
           you're supposed to pick them up on your own," things could be worse.
2004/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13176 Activity:nil
4/13    John Ashcroft testimony for 9/11 commission paraphrased: It's not
        our fault. It's Clinton's fault. Had we known exactly when, where,
        and how a terrorist attack was going to take place, we would have
        stopped it. We need the US PATRIOT act.
        \_ To paraphrase John Stewart, the buck does not stop anywhere near
           these guys.
        \_ at least this time you included a transcript with your biased crap.
2004/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:13177 Activity:nil
4/14    The Luxury of Ignorance: An Open Source Horror Story
        And a nice response:
        \_ Nice response?  More like a head in a hole response.
           \_ Uhhh... no.  The response is that ESR doesn't even understand
              the extent of the problem.  How is this a "head in a hole"
        \_ not really an "open source" horror story... more like a unix
           configuration horror story. or linux or whatever *nix this guy
           has. nothing related to "open source" about the problem
           \_ Way to not read any of the articles!
2004/4/13 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:13178 Activity:nil
4/13    I found the ucla stud guy! He's here:
        and he lives in Westwood
        \_ he seems a little too hairy to be an asian guy.
           \_ I've seen hairier asian guys.
2004/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:13179 Activity:very high
4/13    Write a gore story for writing class, get expelled, teacher fired.   (chronicle and why censor this??)
        \_ There's a free speech rally going on in front of the school
           right now (well about 20mins ago, anyways) on new montgomery.
        \_ Al Gore invented censorship.
           \_ wow! that just never stops being funny.  in fact, I think that
              every time it's pointed out that he never said that,
              and that people who were at the event where he supposedly said
           \_ a kid i knew in jr. high typed in the lyrics to "last caress"
              by the Misfits in his typing class.  straight to the school
              counselor.  of course back in those days, they just figured
              out he was ok and let him go.
           \_ When my little brother was in the third grade, all of his
              stories ended with the end of the world.  The violent, grisly
              end of the world.  That's our boy.
        \_ Al Gore invented censorship.
              that tried unsuccsessfully to kill this media monster it just
              gets funnier!  Keep up the good work.  Don't forget about the
              Kerry/intern story your man drudge just made up out of thin
              air that seems to have dissapeard.
        \_ Heh, this reminds me of the mildly violent stories my brother
           used to write for class.  He got sent to the school counsler.
           He said it was the only time in his life he'd been litererally
           bored to tears.
           \_ a kid i knew in jr. high typed in the lyrics to "last caress"
              by the Misfits in his typing class.  straight to the school
              counselor.  of course back in those days, they just figured
              out he was ok and let him go.
           \_ When my little brother was in the third grade, all of his
              stories ended with the end of the world.  The violent, grisly
              end of the world.  That's our boy.
2004/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13180 Activity:nil
4/13    If I'm aggregating an array of C++ objects in my class like this:
        class Foo {
          Bar myBars[10];
        Will Bar constructor be called for each myBars instance?
        \_ why don't you just try it and see? but yes, the default
           constructor will be called.
2004/4/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:13181 Activity:kinda low 50%like:13150
4/12    \_ um, whatever happened to the Soda alumni donation thing? My
           guess is that most of them got cheap and paid... ZELO DOLLAH!!!
           \_ I think what happened is that the students got picky. The
              recent thread where it was said CSUA needed 40 terabytes of
              disk, an LTO2 tape silo, and 14 3.6 GHz CPUs (or something
              almost as ridiculous) turned me off.
              \_ amen, brother.
              \_ me too.  current offers of alum donations that are being
                 sniffed at and turned away as useless crap are way way better
                 than what was available for real class work, in the labs, or
                 previous  incarnations of soda when we were students.  you
                 don't need hundreds of top end cpus, peta bytes of storage
                 and 10 gigabit switches to run a student login, motd, wall,
                 and smtp/imap/pop box.  if there weren't so many snotty
                 greedy unappreciative brats here there'd be more alum help.
                 \_ while we'd like what you've listed above, as i've said
                    here before, we'll take whatever we can get that is better
                    then what we've got. erikk
           \_ Hey asswipe, I gave $500 last time the CSUA passed the hat
              and would do it again, if the Politburo would get its stuff
              together and make a proposal. -alumnus
              \_ Curious, did anyone even thank you?  I got zippo thanks for
                 my last donation.  -never again alum
                 \_ well, i can't do much about the past, except to thank
                    you and everyone else who has donated to the csua.
                    ideally, we'd have a well run donations system. but
                    such a system takes time and we can't seem to scrape
                    up enough of that to handle something like the faculty
                    retreat as well as i would like to. i know its a tired
                    excuse, but its the truth. erikk
                 \_ No, but I would still give again.
        \_ where can we get a list of the donation record? I'd like to
           see something similar to opera where there's a sheet of top
           X million $ donations, followed by Y million $ donations, etc for
           building/funding the opera house.
           \_ Top donor gets their name stenciled onto the CSUA bat in gold
              letters.  Second highest doner gets their name spelled out in
              slices of pepperoni on the next pizza given away at a General
              \_ Third prize is, you're fired.
        \_ I contacted the VP who posted to the motd, and asked him to keep
           me updated on when they had specified a plan (via the motd and
           email), and I'd donate at that point.  Haven't heard back yet...
                \_ if you're not Donald Trump, they don't want to hear from ya
                \- Just out of curiosity, why does the CSUA need money?
                   How much do you get from EJC, ASUC, CS dept?
                      --psb, former chief of CSUA money laundering operation
2004/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:13182 Activity:high
4/13    I'm listening to Dubya on Real right now (via
        Has he ever held a press conference where he's opened the floor to
        questions from the press, on such substantive questions?
          \_ He sounds like he knows the questions in advance.
             \_ In one of his answers just now, it sounds like this is not true
                \_ He's faking it.
                   \_ Did all the reporters laugh because they knew he was
                      lying / joking?
        \_ It is all scripted in advance. "I'm not too quick on my feet." -GWB
           \_ clearly false.
        \_ Anyway, fine, I'll say it.  Bush sounded like a real moron in
           there, but he did have a good closing, which suggests (like he
           said) he's a strong leader and knows what he's talking about,
           but just needs better communication skills.
           \_ you sound religiously attached to the guy.
              \_ he just called gwb a moron.  that isn't attached in any way.
                 *you* sound like a blazing idiot.
                 \_ Actually, he said gwb SOUNDED like a moron.  You really
                    need to hold off on the premature ad hominem, it can make
                    you sound silly. -- random third guy
                    \_ okay, I am the original poster, and the correct
                       interpretation is that I did think he sounded like
                       a real moron, and I was just trying to put myself in
                       the shoes of the ~ 50% of the Americans who support him.
           \_ All that says is he has good speachwriters.  Closing is easy,
           \_ All that says is he has good speechwriters.  Closing is easy,
              being able to actually think on the spot is hard.  As he showed.
              \_ I'm sure you'd be happier with Leno or Letterman as Pres.
                 They'll give you the zippy one liners you crave in your
                 \_ thinking does not mean able to give one liners, just as
                    having good speechwriters does not mean you are a strong
        \_ For all you liburals (like myself) who are looking for a fix
           of ridiculing of Dubya outside the motd, go to
           and click "Post your comments".
        \_ Please post a nice stream of the press conference if you find one,
           specifically, the Q&A session.  Thanks.
        \_ He's come a long way from his first press conference; I'd guess
           his handlers/coaches have been working hard with him to get the
           power phrases down.  At one point, he stumbled really hard and
           even mentioned the dead and their families, and you could almost
           see panic in his eyes as he scrambled to get back to his power
           phrases; when he got back to them, you could see him visibly
           relax.  The reporters hit him with some pretty good questions,
           and it was obvious (on TV anyway) that he was sidestepping.
           This was no crushing defeat, but it also wasn't a victory for
2004/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:13183 Activity:high
4/13    Books many motd residents probably need.  (About the Bush cabinet,
        good and bad)
        \_ Card is a total ass and buffoon.
           \_ He could learn a lot from you. -- ilyas
2004/4/13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29920 Activity:insanely high
4/13    If you were the almighty root and you could squish anyone you want
        without any consequences, who would you squish? Vote now:
        kinney: .
        kinney's affiliates: .
        tom holub: ...
        psb: .
        the anonymous motd censor(s): .
        freeper kook: ...
        paolo/pst/prole: ..
        \_ no ballot-stuffing, please
        \_ Wow!  You're STILL grinding the axe over paolo vs. the motd almost
           3 years later!  You Win the 'I Have No Life' award!
           \_ what's the paolo controversy? -noob
              \_ Actually, the paolo controversy involved paolo auto-deleting
                 the motd.
              \_ Post September 11, 2001, some lovely motd denizen posted
                 some hateful Anti-Arab trash, something related to hunting
                 down and killing or something else just as enlightened.
                 A number of people were upset about this, some of whom are
                 of Arab descent.  The politburo, led by paolo as the
                 president at the time, decided to turn off the motd for a
                 few days as a 'cooling down.'  A couple of fuckwits who
                 don't understand the 1st amendment started carping about
                 'free speech,' and that's the paolo controversy.  I
                 believe there was also the issue that the motd was publicly
                 accessible through the CSUA web site.
                 \_ yes, this caused the motd.public (formermly at
                    <DEAD>soda/motd<DEAD> to be pulled down. And wasn't some
                    script of paolo's also the origin of the no auto-
                    editting of the motd edict?
                    \_ I believe kchang was squished for auto-editing the
                       motd.  I remember paolo was also criticized for
                       having a script, but there was some controversy over
                       his non-squshing.
                       \_ Yes, kchang was squished for an offense paolo was
                          not squished for.  I believe either paolo should
                          be squished, or kchang unsquished, in the interests
                          of fairness.  The amount of time that has passed
                          since the incident isn't really relevant -- unfair
                          is unfair.  That paolo didn't volunteer to have this
                          cleared up in some way doesn't speak well for him.
                            -- ilyas
                          \_ Cool. tom and ilyas probably form a united front
                             on an issue.
                          \_ So, how similar or different were kchang and
                             paolo's actions?  Also, kchang is unsquished.
                          \_ Are you dissing paolo because he hasn't asked the
                             CSUA to squish him?  That seems a pretty stiff
                             moral standard.
                             \_ Please don't feed him his lines like that. It's
                                embarassing to both of you.
                             \_ Rigid beliefs. -- ilyas
                                \_ In SOVIET RUSSIA, PAOLO squishes YOU!
                          \_ The fact that you think this matters speaks
                          \_ IIRC, kchang was squished for numerous offences,
                             not just auto-editing.
                             \_ that's right, it was also for harrassment
                          \_ That you censored all the responses to your
                             statement doesn't speak well for you.
                  \_ You forgot to mention the person whose complaints led
                     to the motd ban happened to be sleeping with Paolo at
                     the time.
                     \_ I fail to see how this really matters, general
                        jealousy about paolo not being a virgin aside.
                        \_ Can paolo be impartial adjudging a claim brought
                           by his girlfriend?
                     \_ I think that makes me respect him MORE.
                  \_ Was this also the cause of the motd no longer
                     displaying automatically on login for new members?
        I don't believe in abusing power, even with no consequences:  ..
2004/4/13 [Uncategorized] UID:29921 Activity:nil
4/13    I can't hit my 3-4-5 irons very well. Should I get a set of
2004/4/13 [Uncategorized] UID:29922 Activity:nil
        7/9 woods to compensate for these irons? And should I get steel
        shaft for these woods so that they'll hit more like irons (but has
        higher loft for ease of hit)? Thanks.
        \_ fuck you, golfer bastard.
2004/4/13 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:29923 Activity:nil
4/13    US going to abandon South Korean allies.  Pulling out of DMZ this
        year.  Punishment for lack of support in Iraq?
2004/4/13 [Uncategorized] UID:29924 Activity:nil
4/13    Would people quit whining about motd censorship.  Really.  If you
        don't want to be overwritten, accidentally or not, post a link to
        your damn blog.
        \_ which assholes like you would then overwrite
           \_ Sorry, didn't overwrite anything at all, dude.  Get a life.
2019/01/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:April:13 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>