Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:23 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2004/9/23 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic] UID:33711 Activity:moderate
9/22    How do you refer to a person from the Virgin Islands?
        Islander-American? American? Thanks...
        \_ A subject
        \_ Virgin Islander (geographically), or American, Dane or
           Englishman (politically)  -Great MOTD Swami
        \_ A virgin.
2004/9/23 [Reference/Military] UID:33712 Activity:high
9/23    Dear MOTD gun nuts:  My dad bought an "estate" in the middle of
        bumfuck nowhere.  There are wolves, wildcats and inbred Frenchmen
        roaming the hills.  I'm shopping around for a shotgun for him.
        Looking for something sturdy, not too expensive, with reasonable
        range.  It's not so much for hunting as for "git-the-hayl-off-mah-
        property-ya-varmint".  Not tremendously loud would be a plus. -John
        \_ Big 5 has Mossberg 500, go to http://ammoman.com for Tactical 00 buckshot
          in 12 guage
        \_ Benellis are nice.  I like the M3. -- ilyas
        \_ Shotguns can be fairly generic. If you want range, look at a long
           barrel. Figure you're loading either birdshot or rock salt, but
           that's not going to help you out past a fairly short range.
           \_ This is my BOOMSTICK!
           \_ Thanks--what's "short"?  He's a crack shot, and the idea
              is to be able to nail something the size of a razorback at
              about 80 feet.  Any particular brands I should be looking at?
        \_ mossberg.  remington.  hell, any reason not to get a bolt action
           rifle in .223 remington and 20inch barrel (varmint size)?
           \- Why is it that you are not getting the Remington 870? --psb
2004/9/23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33713 Activity:high
9/23    "And a year from now, I'll be very surprised if there
        is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named
        after President Bush." -Richard Perle 9/22/2003
        http://www.aei.org/events/contentID.20031003144313426/default.asp
        \_ Are you suggesting that the architect of NeoConservatism is not
           prophetic?  This is heresy, sir!  I wish we lived in an age where I
           could challenge you to a duel.
           \_ I accept!!! Wooden swords and panda costumes at high noon
              on upper sproul.  Be sure to stand where the sproul webcam
              can see you.
              \_ (You do realize that this is not sufficient to get someone
                  arrested on Sproul Plaza, yes?)
                  \_ you do realize that it would be entertaining to watch
                     someone in a panda suit running around with a wooden
                     sword, yes?
                     http://www.berkeley.edu/webcams/sproul.html
                     \_ I dunno, I've seen some pretty freaky stuff on Sproul.
                        Thanks for the link!
                     \_ Does this not work under Safari, or is it just me?
                        \_ It may just be down.  It worked for me at
                           first (Under Mozilla) but now the image won't
                           load.  Addendum:  Works now.
2004/9/23 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:33714 Activity:moderate
9/23    One of the grad students I work with added a piece of code to one
        of our programs that need to be dynamically linked to.  He uses a
        mac, and he only wrote the linking flags for the mac, and stuck
        that in the makefile.  So our standard linux version no longer
        works.  He then left for Rome.  How should this look in ELF?
        ifeq "$(MACOSX)" "true"
        HomophoneName           := Homophone$(DirSuffix)
        LocalLinkLibFlags       += -F$(MacOSXLibraryDir) -framework
        $(HomophoneName)
        endif
        \_ -F and -framework set the linker to use the framework
        (aka shared library) in $(HomophoneName), so you need to add
        the ELF shared library to your link line, so that'd most likely
        be  -l$(HomophoneName) in your case, but I can't tell without
        more information. --twohey
2004/9/23 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:33715 Activity:very high
9/23    I need to make an image of a disk a disk on a different machine
        in Linux. That is, Make an image of A's disk, on B, and then
        later be able to just copy the image back on to A.
        ADDENDUM: It would be nice to be able to compress the image on the
        way out.  Tar and gzip or bzip2 I suppose.
        \_ Is this a question or an observation? I need a big-breasted
           blonde to cook and clean for me.
           \_ I'd rather have a big-breasted blonde to have sex with me.
        \_ have u tried something like 'dd if=/dev/diska | ssh machineb
           "dd of=/dev/diskb"'
        \_ I think you're looking for something like Norton Ghost.  Check
           out g4u (Ghost for Unix), probably hosted on sourceforge.
2004/9/23 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:33716 Activity:high
9/23    Is the a C++ equivelent to the C realloc function?
        \_ realloc(). But seriously, maybe you want an STL container
           that automatically grows.
           \_ Not in this case.  I just need to grow a char array
              automatically myself.   (For speed reasons) Really, It's a
              very isolated place in the code, and I'll probably just end
              up switching the news and deletes to mallocs and frees, and
              therefore use realloc when I need to grow the array.  But I
              was curious if there was an equivelent that would work with
              new and delete.
              \_ No, there is no equivalent for new/delete.  You probably
                 should avoid using arrays and new/delete directly anyway.
                 It's hard to make it exception-safe.  Either use an STL
                 container (e.g. vector or string; shrinking a vector
                 doesn't free memory to the system though) or write your
                 own container that uses malloc/free/realloc.
              \_ If you need to do this for performance then you should avoid
                 new/delete, and especially STL containers.  STL containers
                 require new elements to be default initialized, etc.  I wrote
                 my own "pod_vector" for POD types that uses malloc/realloc
                 etc. for high performance.  If you do this, it's important to
                 have unit tests.
2004/9/23 [Recreation/Food] UID:33717 Activity:high
9/23    MOTD Recipe time, because we all love bacon and need to eat our veggies
        Finely Chop: 1-2 cloves of garlic, 1/2 yellow onion
        Cut up 4 heads of baby bok-choy into bite-size bits
        Cut 1/2lb. bacon into 1/2" bits
        Heat a frying pan to medium-high
        Fry the bacon.  When done, remove to paper towels to drain.
        Pour out most of the bacon grease but leave about 1 tablespoon worth
        Turn down the heat to medium and let the pan cool a bit.
        Add the garlic and onion and cook until the onion is translucent
        Increase the heat to medium-high and add the bok-choy
        Cook until bok choy is tender, then add 1-2 tablespoons soy sauce
        Add the cooked bacon and stir it all together.
        Put on plate and sprinkle with lemon juice.
        \_ Huh?
2004/9/23 [Health/Dental] UID:33718 Activity:nil
9/23    Didn't someone on motd complain about their dentist?
        http://csua.org/u/96g
2004/9/23 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:33719 Activity:nil
9/23    Why is it that if I post a political troll, I get 3 pages of
        discussion, but I'm lucky if I can get one trollish replay to a
        technical question?
        \_ Nobody cares about computers at the CSUA.
        \_ Because your technical question is stupid.
           \_ That and you don't know the answer.
              \_ Possibly.  But no one on motd answered...
2004/9/23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33720 Activity:very high
9/23    Ladies and Gentleman, Irony is officially Alive.  Apparently,
        "60 Minutes II" ran the Bush TANG memo story by preempting a story
        about the forged Niger Uranium documents. [why was the last line of
        this description deleted?]
        http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6073449/site/newsweek
        \_ I apologize for brutally hijacking a motd thread, but gwbush
           is the original master of irony.  An example:

     James Harding (Financial Times): Mr. President, I want to return to
     the question of torture. What we've learned from these memos this
     week is that the Department of Justice lawyers and the Pentagon
     lawyers have essentially worked out a way that US officials can
     torture detainees without running afoul of the law. So when you say
     you want the US to adhere to international and US laws, that's not
     very comforting. This is a moral question: Is torture ever
     justified?

     President Bush: Look, I'm going to say it one more time. ...Maybe I
     can be more clear. The instructions went out to our people to
     adhere to law. That ought to comfort you. We're a nation of law. We
     adhere to laws. We have laws on the books. You might look at these laws,
     and that might provide comfort for you. And those were the
     instructions...from me to the government. - danh
     \_ Yeah, and? The law also allows for people to kill others given the
        right political circumstances.
        By your logic:
        Soldiers, they kill people, that's bad.
        But they were following law, so people who make the law are bad.
        Therefore The US Government is bad.
        But wait a minute, all governments allow people to be killed for
        political reasons.
        Therefore government is bad in general.
        We should do away with government because killing people should never
        be justified.
        \_ wow.  this is too stupid even for ilyas.  -tom
           \_ If the alternative is to be smart like you, tom, I d rather
              stay an idiot forever. -- ilyas
              \_ you're doing a good job.  -tom
                 \_ I think we should pass a law that basically sanctions
                    torture solely for tom, either that or ship him off
                    to Afghanistan. I'd think that would get unanimous
                    consent from both the House and the Senate.
                    \_ I think we should pass a law not only allowing
                       tom and ilyas to get married, but forcing them to.
                       Then we could have a whole reality TV show around
                       the happy couple.
                       \_ I think tom's peculiar brand of bulldog yapping
                          is exclusive to the safety of the Internet.  I
                          would be very surprised if he was like this face to
                          face.  -- ilyas
                          \_ I'm not sure what you mean by "like this." tom
                             is just as opinionated in real life, but it
                             doesn't come off quite the same way. Do you talk
                             so much about your weapons and about punching
                             people in the face so much in real life? If so,
                             I bet you get laughed at. A lot.
                             \_ I don't remember ever mentioning 'my
                                weapons' on the motd.  I think I mentioned
                                punches to the face once, maybe twice.  I have
                                never threatened anyone with violence.  By
                                'like this,' I mean that tom comes across as
                                stuck in ad hominem mode about 90% of the time.
                                I mean I have to wonder about his mental
                                health sometimes, he seems really angry, all
                                the time.  -- ilyas
        \_ Way to miss the point.
        \_ i am aware that torture happens in all wars, it's just a fact
           of war.  the bush administratoin is doing a spectacularly
           bad job of lying about it and pretending they had absolutely
           no idea this was happening.  we're suppoesd to be the
           good guys.  if you want to turn into aaron, go read
           http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17430 - danh
2004/9/23 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Media] UID:33721 Activity:nil
9/23    The Corporation is an awsome independent film, go watch it it's
        totally worth it (and it costs less than blockbuster movies).
2004/9/23 [Uncategorized] UID:33722 Activity:high
9/23    What is the etymology of the phrase "is teh suck?"
                                                    \_ suk
        \_ yermom
        \_ cf MMORPG players.
        \_ cf MMORPG players.  Also see "yu0 = gay" and "pwned!"
                                               \_ ghey
                                                  \_ y00 = teh ghey
                                                     \_ r0x
        \_ 1 RoxorZ u! my l33t m@d skillz! U R w33k!
2004/9/23 [ERROR, uid:33723, category id '18005#4.3125' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33723 Activity:nil
9/23    CBS apology on TANG memos received significantly more media
        coverage than NYT apology on WMD coverage:
        http://mediamatters.org/items/200409230005
        \_ This is election season.  There's more coverage of everything.
2004/9/23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:33724 Activity:kinda low
9/23    Stop selectively censoring the motd.
        \_ I did not selectively censor the motd!!
        \_ If it happens once, it's just careless stomping.  You just did a
           malicious stomping.
           \_ Read the logs.  Lots of things from different places got
              deleted.
              \_ It looked to me like someone restored a previous version
                 of the motd.  Maybe someone nuked it, an old version was
                 restored, and you nuked it retribution.
        \_ Do you REALLY want your voice heard that much on the motd?
2004/9/23-24 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:33725 Activity:insanely high
9/23    Dear motd law God, earlier this summer I finally collected the
        money that this school  bus driver owes me from the lawsuit we said. He
        was pretty pissed and said he would retaliate, and I've since
        then moved twice to avoid him. However, lately I've been getting
        a lot of fax/prank calls, with caller ID that says 'bus services',
        which I presume come from his work place. Is there any basis
        for me to sue him again, and is it a good idea?
        \_ Make him an offer he can't refuse.
        \_ You deserve each other.  You really, really do.  What did you
           expect was going to happen when you pursued this vendetta to the
           lengths you did against this asshole?
           \_ Did you follow the original saga?  The guy was uninsured, gave
              false contact info and basically tried to duck responsibility
              every step of the way.  He lost any chance for sympathy as
              "poor guy in a bad situation" and became "jerk who's trying to
              screw me"  Suing him and garnishing his wages was really the only
              reasonable option aside from taking the whole thing as a loss.
              Really, put your self in the OP's situation.  What would you do?
              \_ I wouldn't sue - especially not after hearing about the
                 crap he's gone through. I hope the money was worth it.
                 Frankly, he's lucky he even got any money from the suit.
        \_ Document averything, and ask for a restraining order.  When he
           violates it, document that.  Consider suing again in small claims
           for intentional inflinction of emotional distress or somesuch.
           Also, if he's using his work resources to harass you, you can
           complain to his employer.
           -!lawgod
           \_ Yes, document. Get a lawyer. File complaints with the police.
              Also, start making some mob friends.
              \_ I'd also like to add that if you get him fired, he suddenly
                 has a lot more time and motive to harass you.  If you get
                 another judgement or get him arrested, he has less time to
                 harass you and it cost him money.
        \_ Is this really worth it to you? I am reminded of an
           acquaintance whose Bentley got rear-ended by 4 illegal
           immigrants with no insurance. It cost $10K to fix. The guys
           gave him $200 cash and he took it no problem. You can't squeeze
           blood from a turnip.
           \_ If I read it correcly, OPs goal is more to stop the harassment,
              and is considering suing as one way to do that.
              \_ It's why he got harrassed to begin with. Karma, baby. You
                 can't sue these problems away. You just create more.
                 \_ If the jerk has a wife and kids, getting arrested or sued
                    again because of harassment might induce the wife to get
                    him to stop "for the good of the kids"
              \_ His solution to problems created by a lawsuit is to file
                 another one? You might not be a lawyer, would you be....?
        \_ I hope you don't have wife or kids to worry about.  Good luck.  BTW
           if you move again, you can ask SBC to not list your address or phone
           number in phonebooks.  And don't use USPS's mail forwarding service,
           because they'll release your new address to anyone who knows your
           old address.
        \_ Buy a gun.
           \_ Use this as a reason to approach you county sheriff to request a
              concealed carry weapons license. Believe me, it's very hard to
              get in California if you live in Bay Area/LA counties.
           \_ Right, so next time he calls you can shoot that noisy little
              fucker into oblivion!  Take that, PacBell!
              \_ Down, Bronco, he's mine!!!
        \_ Are you a Jew or a Chinese?
           \_ Why do you hate Chinese Jews?
              \_ Because if he's part of a minority, he could pass this
                 off as a hate crime.  As it is, the guy is just a jerk.
                 \_ Only if he can prove that the hatred is racially motivated.
                    But in this case it's hard, since it's apparent that the
                    hatred is financially motivated.
        \_ this is like trying to exterminate the terrorists by killing
           all suspected terrorists. There may be peace for a while but
           when the fatherless children grow up, they'll want nothing but
           bloody revenge (suicide bombers). The concept of "an eye for
           an eye" just does'nt work. Hate begets even more hate.
           Peace.                               -philosopher
           \_ So make sure you sue his kids too. And his children's children.
              Get 'em all. But be prepared to defend yourself, frontier-style
           \_ Ok, I'll just wait here for them to attack again.
              \_ No, just abandon all you believe in and fuck over your allies
                 and give them everything they want and some of them will stop
                 attacking you in exchange for even more others who will
                 continue and make newer even greater demands.
              \_ No, just go and shoot him.  When they arrest you, say that
                 you were acting under the Bush doctrine of preemption.  You
                 might want to accuse him of harboring WMD and terrorists to
                 strengthen your case.
                 \_ Oh I like this one the best. Claim he's an terriorist!!
                    \_ "Your Honor, the deceased was terrorizing my client."
2004/9/23 [Uncategorized] UID:33726 Activity:nil
9/23    lewis, don't make me smack you.  Let the cows be free!

                                       __.----.___
           ||            ||  (\(__)/)-'||      ;--` ||
          _||____________||___`(QQ)'___||______;____||_
          -||------------||----)  (----||-----------||-
          _||____________||___(o  o)___||______;____||_
          -||------------||----`--'----||-----------||-
           ||            ||       `|| ||| || || /@\ ||
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2004/9/23-24 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:33727 Activity:kinda low
9/23    SQL/MySQL question:  If I create a DB with a field that's a
        varchar(256), will I be wasting a lot of disk if the data is typically
        only 5-10 chars long?
        \_ No.  It's not 1981 anymore.
           \_ I just wanted to be sure I wasn't setting up something in a
              horribly inefficient way.
           \_ But what about my Atari 2600?!?  NOOOOOO!
              \_ You have MySQL for Atari?
                 \_ Yeah, but it can only hold 128 bytes of data.
                    \_ Dude, my Sinclair ZX-81 version of LISP totally
                       r0x0rs your Atari MySQL.
                       \_ Do you need to use the 16K RAM expansion to hold
                          all the parenthesis?
 __  __  ___   ___  _
|  \/  |/ _ \ / _ \| |
| |\/| | | | | | | | |
| |  | | |_| | |_| |_|
|_|  |_|\___/ \___/(_)
        \_ You mean varchar(255)
           \_ I guess, but would it really matter? -op
           \_ yes. limit is 255 in mysql
        \_ YES it'll take the same amount of space. If space is an issure
           use TEXT or VARCHAR, but you'll trace space with time. Nothing
           comes in free.
2004/9/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33728 Activity:very high
9/23    Not trying to incite another flame war but what are some of the
        advantages for voting Bush? I live in S Cal and I see a lot of
        pro-Bush stickers on cars. What is Bush good for and why do ppl
        want to vote for him? ok thx
        \_ We are voting for Bush because we are eEEeeeEEEVvvvVvvvIIIllLLLLlL
           Republicans!  What more did you need to know?  --E.R.
        \_This is dumber than ilyas. - tom
        \_ Pure. Flame. Bait.
          \_ no really, let's hear it from the other side. Lots of people
             are voting for Bush and I want to know what they have to gain
             by doing so. It's good to understand the psychie of your
             enemies so that you can crush them.
             \_ he's not Kerry
             \_ I suspect most Bush voters honestly believe he's better for
                the country.  I know that's incomprehensible to you, but
                Bush voters don't live in the same world you do.
                \_ obviously they believe he's better, but why?
                \_ I think some voters believe he might be worse for the
                   country but he's better for them.  So they vote for him.
                   \_ The same could be said of "some voters" for Kerry.  So?
             \_ Bush is for anti-gay, pro-God, anti-abortion, pro-gun,
                pro-America, anti-terror, anti-tax voters! Kerry = the reverse.
                \_ pro-corporation, anti-littleguy.
                   \_ anti-trial lawyer, neutral-littleguy.
                      \_ trial lawyers gave more money to Bush than Gore.
                         \_ URL?
                            \_ Here's the breakdown by industry for Kerry:
       http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/indus.asp?id=N00000245&cycle=2004
                               and here it is for Bush:
       http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/indus.asp?id=N00008072&cycle=2004
                               They don't break it down by type of lawyer,
                               but the above poster appears to be incorrect.
                               \_ If they don't break it down by type of
                                  lawyer, how does this make it appear the
                                  above poster is incorrect?  And where's your
                                  Gore data?
                                  \_ you are one lazy ass motherfucker.
                  http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/indus/AllCands.htm
                                     You're right about Gore, though.  I somehow
                                     read "Kerry" instead of Gore.
        \_ If you make enough money, he has lowered your taxes a lot.
           \_ He's going to bankrupt social security by giving big business
              all these tax breaks which was his plan all along. Transfer
              money from the middle and lower classes to the haves and have
              more's.
              \_ Yeah, hence the haves and have more's probably vote for him.
              \_ SS isn't funded by business taxes.  Try again.
                 \_ No, but the business tax breaks are funded by the
                    SS trust fund.
        \_ He's protecting us from the likes of Cat Stevens.
           \_ YOU'RE NEXT DAVID BOWIE@!@@@@!!!
              \_ Well, he did write that song "I'm Afraid of Americans."
                 OFF TO GITMO WITH HIM!!!!!1!
        \_ I was expecting more intellectual responses, like "Bush's tax
           has made X percent improvements in this and that sectors" but
           it's obvious that there are no pro-Bush advocates on motd.
           \_ We keep getting censored. I am not sure why. Nothing
              inflammatory. Maybe that's why.
              \_ that's dissapointing.  could you put it in a seperate file?
           \_ It's a troll.  Read the motd everyday and you'll easily figure
              it out.  The real question is why would anyone think a man like
              Kerry who did *nothing* with his *19 years* in the Senate is
              magically going to fix the world as President.
              \_ He broke the BCCI scandal which lead to the Iran-Contra
                 affair. Republicans like you still can't forgive him
                 for proving that Reagan was a lying scumbag like
                 the rest of them. He is a great muckracking Senator,
                 and has done lots of other stuff in his 19 years.
                 And you a lying FUD throwing sociopath, just like the
                 rest of the "power at all costs" Republicans.
        \_ You live in OC, d00d.  I'm in West L.A. and I see mostly Kerry
           stickers.
           \_ i've been seeing a lot of stickers too and wish i could get
              a "i drive this piece of crap and will be cancelling out your
              vote for bush" but more succinctly put bumper sticker
              \_ You're both in CA.  Your vote is meaningless.
2004/9/23 [ERROR, uid:33729, category id '18005#12.8525' has no name! , ] UID:33729 Activity:kinda low
9/23    The unintentional right wing bias of the Google News algorithm
        http://ojr.org/ojr/technology/1095977436.php
        \_ wtf?  last week I said it was left wing!
2004/9/23 [Uncategorized] UID:33730 Activity:moderate
9/23    An enormous f******g sandwich!!!!1!!!!!1!
        http://myhighhorse.com/index2.html
        \_ The word fucking does not have that many asterisks in it.
           \_ he obviously meant "flarging."
2004/9/23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:33731 Activity:nil
9/23    Stp slctvly cnsrng th mtd.
        \_ I did not selectively censor the motd!!
        \_ If it happens once, it's just careless stomping.  You just did a
           malicious stomping.
           \_ Read the logs.  Lots of things from different places got
              deleted.
              \_ It looked to me like someone restored a previous version
                 of the motd.  Maybe someone nuked it, an old version was
                 restored, and you nuked it retribution.
        \_ Do you REALLY want your voice heard that much on the motd?
2004/9/23-24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:33732 Activity:very high
9/23    Do you find a lack of respect for s/w developers and/or sysadmins
        in your workplace? I am in management (former sysadmin) and
        hearing management's opinions firsthand is now shocking and
        depressing. Time to switch careers or are there places that treat
        IT with respect? BTW, my team has members from Caltech, Harvey
        Mudd, USC, Berkeley... so it's not like we're a bunch of idiots
        at a help desk.
        \_ My experience is that people hate IT because they are highly
           dependant on them, they usually get paid manager scale salary
           or higher as staff and most sw dev and/or SA are incompetent
           assholes.  There really truly are enough real fucking losers out
           there that it makes all of us look like shit forever.  When you
           meet these people kindly ask them to find a new field and when
           they don't, it is ok to knee cap them with a bat.
           \_ In my experience, incompetent assholes are much more prevalent
              among management than among software people or sysadmins.
              The higher the position, the more likely the guy is an
              incompetent asshole. -- ilyas
              \_ ilyas, have you ever read Alan Cooper's book "The Inmates
                 Are Running The Asylum?"  I highly recommend it to anyone
                 that thinks software people _aren't_ the problem.
                 \_ I haven't read it.  But isn't that book about problems with
                    software development?  I thought this thread was more
                    about problems in computer industry corporations?  Actually,
                    I think the problem is wider than the computer industry.
                    In my more marxist days, I can't help but think there is
                    a middle management parasite class. -- ilyas
                    \_ You mean you really are a dictionary-definition "neocon"?
                        -- ulysses
                        \_ I don't know what that word means. -- ilyas
                           \_ Do you have a tough time with reading
                              comprehension? Or do you just disagree with
                              the Christian Science Monitor defintion of it?
                        http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html
                              \_ If Cheney and I are both neocons, then that
                                 label is meaningless.  I disagree (or at
                                 least disagreed in 2000) with Cheney on
                                 almost everything. -- ilyas
           \_ I just heard a line from a guy I work with that you might
              appreciate.  "Sure, I'm a minority.  I'm in the minority of
              people who know what the fuck they're doing."
           \_ Well, yeah THAT's true.  You should see some of the crap IT
              people there are out there.  Clueless and unwilling to
              learn.  The worst combo in IT.
        \_ If you fail to understand the hatred of sysadmins/IT types
           by almost all workers of all types(including even blue collar
           workers now) you are probably part of the problem.  As my old
           boss from when I worked in the fishing industry put it "it's
           getting to where you can't take a shit without dealing with one
           of these pointy headed computer fuckers."  Computers are
           loathesome for most people to use, and their major human contact
           with this issue is through IT people.
        \_ my manager said there's no respect because engineering is just
           a disposable resource. I left that company 5 years ago.
           \_ Is that company floundering?  emarkp's company had an
              additude like that and it died fairly quickly.
           \_ hint: *everyone* is a disposable resource.  if you think you're
              not disposable doing whatever it is that you do then you're
              either a truly unique contributor or you're truly naive.
              *everyone* can be replaced at most companies.
        \_ Here at the lab, we get lots of respect.  Work at LLNL! -jrleek
           \_ That's what they have when you are not in listening range.
              \_ Exactly. I thought the same thing until I got promoted.
                 CS types are supposedly trained monkeys that make too
                 much money "but it's what the market will bear".
                 \_ Ummm.. have you worked at the lab, or are you talking
                    about a different place?  My management is almost
                    entriely CS guys, up until you get the the very top,
                    where it becomes Physics PhDs.  Admittedly, the
                    Physics guys don't think much of CS, but they don't
                    think much of ANYONE who isn't a Physics PhD. -jrleek
                    \_ Until they need someone to fix their Blackberry.  :-)
                       \_ Ah, but the Physics guy could fix it in theory!
                          All this implementation stuff is just
                          engineering.
                    \_ You are confirming what I said. The CS guys think
                       highly of CS, but not anyone else (physics in this
                       case). I have worked several places in academia as
                       well as industry and for the government.
2004/9/23-24 [Computer/SW/Virus] UID:33733 Activity:high
9/23    So my PC got infected with this Lop adware bullshit... IE seems
        totally hijacked. Adaware and SpyBot both dont seem able to
        remove it. Anyone have any advice how to get this off my system?
        Also, please use this thread to bitch about this Lop bullshit
        and how evil it is. Thanks.
        \_ Install FireFox.  Ad-aware, SpyBot.  If that doesn't work, google
           lop adware.  If that doesn't work, re-install.
        \_ Huh?  What happened to the link I posted?  Search for remove
           lop adware and instructions come up.
        \_ once you've got spyware on there, it's hard to get rid of.
           spybot and spywareblaster are a good tagteam combo if you're
           still using IE. i use those two for IE but firefox is my primary
           browser.
        \_ d/l Hijack This , run in Safe Mode.
        \_ One of those lil' bastards just yanked my Google toolbar. So
           now I'm wasting my morning running Ad-Aware & Spybot and
           fretting that I just got suckered into downloading a faux
           noadware. -elizp
        \_ I would recommend wipe the system and reinstall XP from scratch,
           you'll be amazed at the speed gain this gives you. Seriously, if
           you had XP for more than 2 years on the PC, a re-install will
           bring back serious speed and stability on your system. Of course
           I would backup/copy to laptop anything important before
           reinstall. When I say re-install, I mean reformat the disk, not
           just a plain reinstall over your data.
           \_ Seconded, although with a well-maintained system this wouldn't
              be necessary.  Also, be sure to have the install disks for all
              your important apps on hand before you start.
        \_ If you 'have' to run IE after you fix this, at least install all the
           latest patches, and if on an NT/XP system, make a seperate
           non-administrator account for day-to-day use.  That way you won't be
           "running as root" if you get hax0r3d again.
2004/9/23 [Uncategorized] UID:33734 Activity:nil
9/23    Hey, tropical depression Ivan is headed for Texas!
2004/9/23 [Uncategorized] UID:33735 Activity:nil
9/23    "Violence Surges Even As Conditions Improve"
        I don't know whether to laugh or cry, because this is *not* an
        Onion article, but an MSNBC lede:
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6083508
2004/9/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:33736 Activity:nil
9/23    Burkett says Lockhart requested fraudulent documents.
        This is getting ugly. -Drudge
        The beauty of this is everytime Clinton's people reappear
        the same of scummy behavior resurfaces.
        \_ It would have been a shitstorm had the Democrats been given the
           documents and they didn't quickly identify them as fakes.
2017/11/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/19   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:23 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>