Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:April:14 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2004/4/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:13185 Activity:nil
4/14    Only out of curiosity, was the CSUA log book ever found?  -John
        \_ Yes.
2004/4/14-15 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:13186 Activity:nil
4/14    In emacs, how to I turn off ~ backup file creation for files with
        a certain .extension?
2004/4/14 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:13187 Activity:nil
4/13    Does anyone know a good brand for USB flash drives?  The reviews on
        Amazon seem to suggest that most of them are crap that get corrupted
        after a few months. --dgies
        \_ Lexar JumpDrive Pro is well-reviewed.  Sandisk Cruzer Mini as
           well (and smaller), except the silver coating scratches easily.
           See Amazon.  Sandisk even makes a 512 MB key that transfers at
           13-15 megabytes/second, but that's like $200+.
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:13188 Activity:very high
4/14    Bush alters U.S. Israel policy in joint press conference with Sharon.
        Bush praises Sharon's "historic and courageous" actions, and says the
        U.S. does not support the Palestinian "right of return", and the U.S.
        also supports the unilateral withdrawal of Israel behind its new wall.
        Israelis and Palestinians would be separated in this disengagement.
        Bush says he does not want the peace plan scrapped, but Palestinians
        say it would be if Sharon followed through.  Major newspapers say that
        Bush "endorses" proposal in which Israel would unilaterally keep some
        parts of the West Bank.  (Sorry, this last sentence is getting revised
        because the news sources are changing as well.)
        \_ Sharon: unilateral withdrawal from most of occupied territories
           which is exactly what the Palestinians say they wanted all along.
           Right of return: no one ever mentions all the Jews displaced from
           their homes in Arab countries.  If Israel were to be flooded with
           millions of returnees it would be the end of Israel.  This is a
           complete red herring and everyone involved knows this will never
           be allowed to happen.
           \_ Yes it is a red herring, but it has symbolic value to the
              Palestinians, as it amounts to Israel admiting it shouldn't have
              siezed the land.  It might be a good compromise if Israel said
              "Yes, you have a right of return, but only X-thousand per year,
               and old people get priority.  Oh, and only if you were born
               there.  No fiesty grandkids."
              \_ Why should they do this?  Are the Arabs letting Jews back in?
                 \_ In some countries, yes.
                    \_ Name them.
                    \_ then they kill them more easily
           \_ A big issue is that the right of return has been considered
              for decades as a point of negotiation, and in this sense, is
              definitely not a "red herring".  Bush just said, "No more
              negotiating.  Things have changed.  Why can we do it?
              'cause we can.  Now, is anyone going to do anything about it?"
              \_ Welcome to the way the world *really* works.  Might really
                 does make right and there's no negotiating with terrorists.
                 \_ If you really believe that might makes right, then
                    why do you even use the word "terrorist?" Are you just
                    trying to score political points?
                 \_ Well, Republicans would say that Bush is demonstrating
                    leadership.  Democrats would say Bush is being a dumbass.
                    leadership.  Democrats would Bush is being a dumbass.
                    I suppose the truth lies in between.
           The wall: if Indians or Mexicans were blowing shit up all over
           California and Texas, you bet your ass there'd be a wall built
           with 100% support in all 3 branches of government and every
           opinion poll.
           \_ yeah, except Mexico is a country, Palestine is not.
              \_ Palestine is an invaded land taken over by evil Jews with the
                 help of imperialist rich white westerners for the purpose of
                 humiliating the justly proud Palestinian peoples!  Huzzah!
                 \_ Bad troll, no cookie, see below.
                 \_ Pathetic attempt to avoid debating the subject.
          \_ Why would it be "the end of Israel"? Couldn't Israel become
             a multi-ethnic secular democracy, like the rest of the
             civilized world?
           Israel: evil sinful place that must be destroyed and replaced with
           oppressive anti-democratic gun toting jack boot thugs to make the
           world a better place.  Any world with fewer Jews is a better world.
           (That's your cookie, enjoy it).
           \_ There is already a wall built to keep Mexicans out. I guess
              Canadians are ok, though.
              \_ There isn't a wall.  You been to the border?  It goes on and
                 on for hundreds of miles with no wall, no patrols, no nothing.
                 Maybe it depends on what your meaning of "wall" is.  Is.  eh?
                 \_ Have you been to San Diego? There is a wall that runs for
                    many miles. The wall isnt' 3000 miles long (yet)  but it
                    certainly exists.
           \_ If Mexico had invaded the United States and the US had beaten
              them back and siezed the northernmost Mexican States, and then
              the Mexicans living in those states had demanded return of the
              land to Mexico, and the US had not only refused but had built
              a wall solidifying its control of the best parts of all of the
              land while the Mexicans living in those states had started
              blowing shit up in California and Texas, then you might have
              a reasonable analogy, but only tenuously.
              \_ Hey history genius, where the hell do you think CA/TX came
                 from?  The US invaded Mexico and *took* them and the Mexicans
                 are still pissed off about it and some even talk about a right
                 of return everytime immigration reform comes up.  When you
                 read a 3rd grade history book you can come back and talk with
                 the grownups about grownups things.  Jesus Christ, I don't
                 even know how to get across how deeply ignorant and stupid
                 your statements are.  READ A BOOK, DAMN IT!
                 \_ If you read the book then you'd know that:
                        A) Texas seceded on its own from Mexico, then asked
                           for Union membership.
                           \_ Don't get your history from watching "The Alamo".
                              The europeans settled on Mexican territory, and
                           for Union membership.
                              then stole it. End of story.
                        B) Similar thing happend with California (ergo Bear
                           Republic).
                        C) Latinos were complicit in both events and supported
                           the secession.
                            \_ And they were right to do it.  Compare Mexico
                               to America.  Which political system would YOU
                               have wanted to live under for the last 100
                               years?
                        D) The U.S. actually paid Mexico after the U.S./Mexican
                           war for the land.
                        E) We purchased another chunk of Mexico for the
                           railroad during the Gadsen Purchase.
                           Perhaps you should dig yourself up a copy of
                           Nivens and Commager and actually read up on
                           factual 19th century US history.
                           --williamc
                 \_ See, here's the part I enjoy: you didn't read my post, or
                    you'd've seen where I said "If Mexico had invaded the
                    United States."  For a literate monkey, you're still
                    pretty illiterate.
                    \_ Uhm, actually he did.  You're still an idiot (and
                       woefully ignorant to boot).  You REALLY need to read
                       that 3rd grade history text, chum.
                       \_ Oh, gawd, now I'm in a "yes-he-did, no-he-didn't"
                          argument with two morons.  The US invaded Mexico,
                          yes, I knew that.  To make the analogy work, though,
                          you have to have Mexico (i.e., the Arab nations)
                          invade the US (i.e., Israel).  THEN the ass-kicking
                          occurs, and THEN the landgrab occurs (rightfully
                          so, IMO).  The US-Mexico situation lacks the Mexico
                          as instigator component that makes Israel look
                          down-right commendable.
                          \_ See, the original proclamation of a Jewish state
                             was unjust. Imagine if a bunch of Mexicans come
                             and proclaim a new "American state" based on the
                             historical Indian presence (even if historically
                             it was small and over 1000 years ago, and a part
                             of larger empires normally). Oh and the new state
                             grants secondary status to people not of this
                             group. There's no justification for a "Jewish
                             state" as such, theocracy is a cultural issue and
                             needs to stay that way. History shows what an
                             absolute tragedy it is when theocracy gets into
                             government. (c.f. collapse of greco-roman
                             civilization, Muslim stagnation, European dark
                             ages, south american human sacrifice etc.).
                             \_ By that logic, there are no just
                                states today.  US is certainly not, they
                                seceded in armed conflict.  Most
                                countries are a very recent development, and
                                if not, their borders certainly were created
                                as a result of injust historical processes:
                                armed conflict, dynastic inheritance, colonial
                                aggression, etc.  Show me one just state.
                                  -- ilyas
                                \_ Some of the Greek city-states formed
                                   voluntary alliances. There's also a
                                   distinction between armed secession and
                                   armed conquest. Having said that, the
                                   problem with Israel wasn't the state per se,
                                   as some kind of state was being implemented
                                   anyway, but the forced expulsions of the
                                   existing occupants and subsequent problems.
                                   This is not a staple feature of most other
                                   countries, even if there are obviously
                                   many examples.
                                   \_ 'Staple feature'?  What does that
                                      even mean?  The character of
                                      many modern countries was _defined_
                                      by the mass expulsions they performed,
                                      the example which is closest is
                                      obviously the Spanish Reconquista, where
                                      essentially all the muslim population of
                                      Spain was either converted at the point
                                      of the sword or driven off into Africa.
                                      Then there is the US and native Americans,
                                      the expulsion of Jews from Germany (Germany
                                      is still trying to get a sizeable Jewish
                                      population), etc, etc, etc.  Why are
                                      you singling out Israel?  Clarification
                                      of original question: show me one just
                                      state existing today. -- ilyas
                     Most of Europe was converted at point of the sword. _/
                     They were a bunch of pagans. That doesn't make it right.
                     Israel can easily be "singled out" because it's happening
                     in our time, in an age when we are well informed and have
                     and have international structures to try to prevent such
                     things. Germany wasn't created by the expulsion of Jews,
                     and besides, everyone agrees that the Nazi nation wasn't
                     just. It wasn't just German Jews they picked on either
                     I already stated there are many other examples (Turkey
                     is a big one IMO). But we seem to concern ourselves
                     with other such things like Kuwait or Serbia (or how
                     with other such things like Kuwait or Serbia (or how
                     about that Nazi Germany) so why are you singling out
                     Israel for exemption from criticism?
                     about that Nazi Germany) so why are you singling out
                     Israel for exemption from criticism? Oh and the Moors
                     conquered Spain first. And Germany was formed from the
                     union of Germanic kingdoms (yeah, those tribes probably
                     pushed some celts out or something, just like various
                     slavs pushed out germanics)
                     \_ Not at all.  I don't claim Israel should be exempt
                        from criticism, but using the 'injust state' as
                        a rationalization for any sort of action will simply
                        not work.  All modern states are 'injust.'  The same
                        argument applies with equal force to them.  I suggest
                        starting in alphabetical order instead of with the
                        letter 'i'.  Also, Israel is a democratic state,
                             civilization, Muslim stagnation, European dark
                             ages, south american human sacrifice etc.).
                                      of original question: show me one just
                                      state existing today. -- ilyas
                        not work.  All modern states are 'injust.'  The same
                        argument applies with equal force to them.  I suggest
                        starting in alphabetical order instead of with the
                        letter 'i'. -- ilyas
                        despite its injust roots, just as the US and Britain
                        are.  We are not recommending returning large parts
                        of the US back to the native americans, or large
                        parts of Britain back to the Celts.  Why is Israel
                        different? -- ilyas
                        \_ Israel's still occupying extra territories. Anyway
                           the point of the "not just" comment was in response
                           to some guy justifying Israel's land grabs. I never
                           said the main part of Israel should be given back.
                           \_ Then it seems you and the Palestinian Authority
                              are at odds.  Look at their flag (or seal).
                              Note the all-of-israel-shaped silhouette with
                              Palestinian colors.  They explicitly want it all.
                                -- ilyas
                              The US still occupies Native American land.
                              Surely you don't imply that just because the
                              landgrab happened some time ago, and there are
                              less indians left that it's suddenly ok for US
                              to keep the land, but not ok for Israel?  You
                              can't pick and choose. -- ilyas
        \_ Last desperate act of a man who knows he is going down. He will
           pull a Johnson any minute now.
           \_ Ok, i'll bite.  What exactly does "pull a Johnson" mean?
              \_ Pull the other one, mate, 's got bells on it.
              \_ Uhhuhuhu huhhuu huhuuh.  He said "pull my Johnson."  Huh huh.
              \_ "With America's sons in the fields far away, with America's
                  future under challenge right here at home, with our hopes
                  and the world's hopes for peace in the balance every day,
                  I do not believe that I should devote an hour or a day of
                  my time to any personal partisan causes or to any duties
                  other than the awesome duties of this office - the
                 round, maybe kill a few people, and then run away.
                   of interests.)
                 so don't care if they can be long gone.
                  Presidency of your country.
                  Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
                 round, kill a bunch of innocent Israelis, and then run away.
                  the nomination of my party for another term as your
                  President."
                Of course, that was a real President, not a phoney pretender.
                \_ Johnson? As in LBJ?  I take it your definition of a "
                   real President" is a disgusting liar who screwed this
                   country 60 ways from Sunday.  Quite frankly, I'd take
                   Bush over LBJ anyday.  Heck, I'd take Gore, Nixion,
                   and most lower life forms.  (Excluding viri and
                   bacteria dangerous to Human health.  We have a conflict
                   of interests.)
                   \_ "viri" isn't a word.
                      \_ "viruses" is the plural "virus," and "viri"
                         is an abbreviation from latin slang meaning
                         "i'm a pompous ass computer geek."
        \_ Israel belongs to the Jews.  Read Genesis 17.
        \_ The reason the "peace process" will end is the leverage the
           Palestinians had (blowing up Israelis) will be gone.
           \_ Why aren't the Palestinians using mortars?  Just lob a few and
              run away.  By the time they land and the IDF finds out where you
              launched from, you can be long gone.
              \_ a) they don't have them b) if they did, they'd get caught
                 running around with them c) even if no one got caught, IDF
                 exacts punishment on entire area d) they're suicidal anyway
                 so don't care if they can be long gone.
              \_ the idea is that you're much bigger to have killed yourself
                 and others in a "spectacular" attack, rather than lob a
                 round, maybe kill a few people, and then run away.
2004/4/14-15 [Uncategorized] UID:13189 Activity:nil
4/14    Has anyone read Confusion yet?  any comments?  Basically more of the
        same?
        \_ Yes.  .  Read it and find out.
        \_ it's very confusing
        \_ You have acquired a scroll entitled 'irk gleknow mizk'(n).--More--
           This is an IBM Manual scroll.--More--
           You are permanently confused.
2004/4/14-15 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:13190 Activity:low
4/14    Not that there are any undergrads left in the CSUA, but particularly
        for them: Several upcoming puzzle-fest-road-rally-scavenger-hunt "Game"
        events in the next few months. This is spurred by the request of
        the people running the Genome Game http://www.genodix.com (Jul 10-11)
        indicating they'd like more undergrad participation. Since the Game
        started at Stanford it's mostly Stanford folks who play; I'd like to
        see some more Bears on the road. Non-undergrads welcome too. It's tons
        of fun. Other upcoming events:
        - BANG 6 (Apr 18) http://www.bloodandbones.com/thegame/bang6.html
        - Shinteki (May 8, 15, or 22) http://shinteki.com
        - Justice Unlimited (Jul 31-Aug 1) http://www.snout.org/Game
        About the Game: http://www.gamecontrol.com, lots of good links at
          http://www.snout.org/Game. Questions? Lemme know. -jowens
        \_ Actually, the CSUA is doing quite well among undergrads these
           days.  Excellent leadership and enthusiasm have contributed to
           something of a renaissance over the last few sememsters.  None
           of them read the motd though.  (It's not displayed
           automatically on startup for new members anymore. :(  )
                        \_ why nopt?
                           \_ because paolo was whipped
           \_ Who knew? Cool. How might I publicize this among undergrads?
              \_ send it to csua@csua or office-hosers.  You could also
                 just send it to the Librarian and have him post it on
                 the web page calender or something.
           \_ Considering the extremely questionable nature of some of the
              stuff that gets posted here, its probably best that the first
              thing a new member is confronted with when they login is NOT
              the motd.public.
              \_ Are you saying they can't deal with open debate and a little
                 ranting?  They're adults.  They'll deal.  They don't need you
                 or anyone else to nanny them.
                 \_ They may all be adults, but the content on the motd is
                    not.
                    \_ So what?  They don't have to read it but they should
                       not be nannied into not having the opportunity to read
                       and participate.
              \_ I know that the motd is pretty questionable, but not
                 exposing new members to it basically means the motd will
                 slowly die as us allums get lives.  Which, may be just
                 fine.  But things are already smelling kinda stagnant
                 around here.
           \_ hey, some of us ugrads do read the motd; several are friends
              of mine. - erikk
2004/4/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:13191 Activity:nil
4/14    amazing. simply amazing.
        http://csua.com
        (thanks psb via james)  - rory
        \_ What the... He goes through and stores and indexs the motd
           everyday?
                \_ no it's fully automatic
        \_ All the more so since I thought that kchang's account was sorried
           ages ago, though I don't really follow these things. -- ulysses
           \_ Well, I can't find a kchang though finger, so he must be
              gone.  The motd is available on the web though, right?
              But the real question is, why does he care?  WHY? -jrleek
              \_ Why do we care?
                 \_ I have a facination with the bizzare.
                 \_ because the motd is actually a huge wealth of knowledge
                    on unix, c++, etc interspersed with obnoxious uselss
                    (though entertaining) ranting, and a categorized and
                    well-done archive actually makes all the information
                    accessible and useful.   - rory
              \_ grep kchang /etc/passwd
                   kchang:*:8710:100:Kevin Chang,none,none,
                   none:/home/apollo/kchang:/usr/local/bin/tcsh
            \_ Why was he sorried?
                http://csua.com/?entry=10961
                http://csua.com/?q=kchang+sorried
                \_ it's lame if he were really tricked.
                   \_ insulting him on the MOTD isn't "tricking him into
                      writing a motd deletion script."
                      \_ fag is 'hate speech' not insult.
                      \_ Automatically adding stuff should be squishable
                         too.  Was that guy found and sorried as well?
                         \_ I wasn't here, but i'd bet not.  It seems like a
                            bunch of crap that he was sorried, and i'm glad
                            to see he's back, especially since this motd
                            thing is cool. -phuqm
                \_ oh my, this is IRONIC!!! checking out why he got squished
                   on his own very creation. it's killing Mr. Winchester
                   with his own gun.
        \_ should he be squished again?
               from http://csua.com/?entry=faq1
        Couldn't I break the system by totally messing up the motd entries?
        \_ You sure could. Please do try, preferably using a motd mudging
           script, croned, forked bombed, that uses a lot of cpu time.
        \_ search, auto categorized, and prefetched/cached contents. it's
           a csua-killer app. there was a time when I thought he was an
           idiot, but now i think he is a really cool idiot.
2004/4/14-15 [Transportation/Car] UID:13192 Activity:nil
4/14    Re: Progressive - I've had them for couple of years, and they aren't
        too bad to have as your insurance carrier.  But I have to constantly
        ask them to lower my rate.  They've yet to do it voluntarily(which
        State Farms used to do.)  But if you haven't checked out yet, check
        out American Express for auto insurance.  They have better rates
        than Progressive, but they won't insure you if you have more than so
        many violation points on your record.
2004/4/14 [Uncategorized] UID:13193 Activity:nil
4/14    Nuked AGAIN?  What the heck is that?  A protest against the rules?
        At least terrorists take credit!
2004/4/14 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:13194 Activity:insanely high
4/14    MOTD Thread Life Rules (Amended):
        Let's set some rules on what gets to stay and what gets deleted.
        1. Hours from 12 midnight - 8 a.m PST do not count as time passed
        2. All threads get to stay for 8 hours at minimum
        3. Threads with no new information added for 4 hours can get deleted
        4. Rule 3 does not apply to threads degenerated into mutual name
           calling, but Rule 2 still applies
        5. Threads over 100 lines can be deleted after 12 hours overriding
           Rule 3.
        6. Informational threads like job openings or CS related questions
           get to stay longer.
        7. freerepublic links are all immediately deleted
        8. Threads in which the OP is refuted will mysteriously disappear.
        Comments welcomed
        \_ Usually, the entire thread does not degenerate, it just gets
           vitriolic and useless branches.  The suggestion is to prune
           those.  Yes, it's not quite algorithmic, and requires some
           judgement, but such is life.  Sometimes the rest of the thread
           is worth keeping for a while longer. -- ilyas
           \_ Judgement?  We already have that algorithm.  It is called bulk
              censorship.  It doesn't work.
              \_ All I am saying is that if there is an (overall useful)
                 thread, with a useless and/or vitriolic branch, you just
                 delete the branch.  It's easier for 'censor/janitor/Victor-
                 the-cleaner', too.  Of course, this entire conversation is
                 useless, since no one will really follow any of these, and
                 we will go on as before. -- ilyas
        \_ how do i get the secret motd point?
           \_ There is no secret motd point.  Stop asking about it in public.
           \_ Citizen, such questions endanger Alpha Complex and could
              indicate treason and possible infiltration by commie mutant
              traitors.  Are you a commie mutant traitor?
              \_ NERD!
              \_ is a commie mutant traitor one of the following?
                 a) someone betrays a commie mutant organization;
                 b) a mutant betrays commie;
                 c) a commie mutant that betrays a non-commie organization
                 \_ Only commie mutant traitors would pretend not to know
                    what a commie mutant traitor was.  Please fill out
                    this 10-4-Y-6 in triplicate and submit it at your nearest
                    termination booth.  Have a happy day citizen.
                \_ Off to the food vats with you, vermin!
        \_ Maybe it's time for a game of motd nomic?
           \_ I thought we were playing nomic.  Why else would people continue
              to play the Hitler card?
              \_ RACIST!
                 \_ RACIST!
                    \_ Gnomes of Zurich!
                       \_ Gnomes?  Zurich?!  RACIST!
                          \_ Boysprouts!
2004/4/14-15 [Computer/SW] UID:13195 Activity:nil
4/14    Do the order of records in /etc/passwd correspond to the order accounts
        were added? This would make sense given that lwall is the first user
        account listed.
        \- you used to be able to go by uid number until the moron/fascist
           revolution --psb
           revolutio --psb
           \_ So that makes psb the 37th extant user account added? And I'm
              afraid I don't know what the moron/fascist revolution was.
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:13196 Activity:nil 61%like:13197
4/14    What media bias?  (different article, different topic, same theme)
        http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38026
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:13197 Activity:nil 61%like:13196
4/14    What media bias?
        http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38027
        \_ I can't believe he's not going for the double-brass-ring and
           calling for both Byrd and Dodd to resign.
        \_ If a Republican praised an ex-KKK Republican member of the
           Senate, we would not hear the end of it.  But the liberal
           media will pass on this story.
           \_ Damn that liberal media! -- ulysses
              \_ Yes, actually damn them.  They have already destroyed all
                 credibility the media once had with the American people.
           \_ Why isn't the liberal media all over the story of a FORMER KKK
              MEMBER BEING IN THE US SENATE?  Don't you think that's maybe
              a slightly more egregious offense than generic praise of someone
              who used to be in the KKK?  It's not comparable to the Lott
              comments--Lott's comments were specifically about how racist
              policies might have been better.  -tom
              \_ I am a liberal, and I really don't like Lott.  However, I
                 don't think that was the intent of his comments at all, and
                 I believe he was unfairly attacked for it.  The republicans
                 decided to crucify him to make their party as a whole
                 appear to be something other than it is: a haven for racists
                 in general, and for poor whites in the south who vote against
                 their economic interests in particular.
                 \_ You fergot our guns! Yep yep yep yep yep! "We're gonna get
                    those Duke boys this time!  Aren't we Flash!!??"
                 \_ Yawn, Republicans = evil.  Democrats = good.  See?  That's
                    so much shorter to type and it's all you had to say.
              \_ You mean ol' Strom?  His views evolved over many years and
                 he publicaly renounced racism.  Lott implied recently that
                 he supported segragation.
              \_ According to the article, Byrd the ex-KKK member had to
                 apologize for using the "n-word" in a Tony Snow interview.
                 I'm not saying there are no racist Republicans.  I am saying
                 this public praise for a former KKK member by a Democrat
                 will not be endlessly paraded as an example of Democratic
                 racism, the way it would be if the praise for a former
                 KKK member came from a Republican.
                 \_ you think every time Strom Thurmond was praised that
                    it was "endlessly paraded as an example of Republican
                    racism"?  Be serious.  -tom
                    \_ Do a google on "racist strom"
                       \_ I see nothing other than references to Lott.  I
                          suppose it's possible that no one else praised
                          Strom in the 50+ years he was in the senate.  -tom
                          \_ Lott's mistake was claiming Strom should have
                             become president when he ran, as a
                             segregationalist.  This Dem. says this other
                             senator should have been a leader when he was
                             a segregationalist.  (And a pro-slaver)
                             That's why this is the same mistake as Lott's.
2004/4/14-15 [Reference/Tax] UID:13198 Activity:nil
4/14    Has anyone not done their taxes yet?
        \_ I'm doing them tonnight and I have a question 'cause my W-2 isn't
           in front of me.  On the CA form 540 where it says "Total wages (W-2
           box 16)" is that gross wages, or wages after witholding?  Where it
           says "Total tax withheld (W-2 box 17)" is that all witholdings, or
           just the state witholding?
           I don't need a tax expert, just someone with their W-2 at hand.
           \_ gross wages before withholding; just state withholding.
              \_ Thank you.
        \_ I did mine last night.  I use TurboTax, and they annually have
           clogged up servers for online filing on the last night.
           \_ ED!  ED!  ED is the STANDARD!!!  Tax Editor.
              \_ ED! ED is the STANDARD UNFUNNY JOKE!
                \_ I started learning/using ed recently.  It's actually a very
                   enlightening process. --darin
              \_ A good friend uses only ed.  It works for her and apparently
                 she's too lazy to learn anything else.
                 \_ If she was serious she'd use sed and cat.  ed users are
                    weak.  SED!
        \_ Taxes?  Didn't I just do those last year?
           \_ Bear tax?  Let the bears pay the bear tax.  I pay the Homer tax!
2004/4/14-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:13199 Activity:nil
4/14    What are the industry trends towards Java jobs?  What about
        C/C++ jobs?
        \_ India
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:13200 Activity:moderate
4/14    So much for any attempt at legitimacy:
        http://www.airamericaradio.com/pub/resNews.htm
        \_ Classy joint. (A clarification, I am just noting how they are
           discussing their legal matters, vs. how, say, Limbaugh is discussing
           his.  I don't listen to Franken's show, so I can't comment on the
           content.) -- ilyas
           \_ What's wrong with Limbaugh's discussion of his legal matters?
        \_ Classy joint. -- ilyas
              \_ Nothing. -- ilyas
        \_ I don't know which is worse:  naming a company Multicultural
           Broadcasting, or all the Liu jokes.
           \_ They are discussing this right now on the air.
        \_ Hehe.  I love seeing all the wingers complain about the "incivility"
           of Air America after over a decade of Limbaugh-tomy.  Franken's show
           is a church meeting compared to a lot of the right wing radio out
           there...Randi Rhodes kinda sucks though.
           \_ I find it annoying that Franken claims to have invented liberal
              talk radio.  there's plenty of good liberal talk radio out there,
              you just have to hunt around for it.
           \_ Rush is funny.  What is "incivil" about Rush other than your
              philosophical disagreement?  Does anyone who disagree with your
              you just have to hunt around for it.
              beliefs automatically count as a barbarian?
           \_ I don't listen to Rush. -op
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:13201 Activity:high
4/14    "[I will] never submit to fight beneath that banner
        [the American flag] with a Negro by my side. Rather would
        I die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in
        the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved
        land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback
        to the blackest specimen from the wilds."
        1947 letter by Robert Byrd.
                                 \_(D)
        \_ Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner and a fracophile.
        \_ Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner and a francophile.
            \_ Is that anything like a Francophile, 'cause them are fightin'
                words.  Also, T.J. who lived way before 1947, may have had
                slaves, but he never said anything as reprehensible as that.
                nor anything even close.  nor, i suspect, did he ever feel
                anything like it.
            \_ Those were the real French during their glory days.  After WWI
               and WWII all the best genes in the pool were killed off and
               now only the scum remains to keep breeding and leeching off the
               few French who actually work and produce anything.  This is all
               just noise anyway since in about 2 generations there will be
               more Arabs in France than pussified French and then it'll all
               be over for them for all time as a people, a culture and a
               country.  Look back in time upon France from before WWI to see
               a real country full of admirable people.  You can just fuck the
               useless worthless whiners that remain.
               \_ How about we kill you instead?  That would make me feel a
                  whole lot better.
                  \_ Who gives a flying fuck how *you* feel?  No, you can't.
                     You're a worthless valueless piece of shit.
                     \_ I'd say something, but I think John said it so much
                        better just below.
                        \_ Thank you.  Same goes for Italy. :)  -John
               \_ Is that an insult or a suggestion <img src=French hottie>?
                  \_ To whom?  I admire the old French.  The modern post WW2
                        \_ You're an idiot, and I doubt you'd ever be let
                           out of the special school for long enough to
                     French are pansies and doomed.
                        \_ You're just a second rate troll and an idiot, but
                           short-pantsed overweight American tourists with
                           too many people think like you.  I doubt you'd
                           be let out of the special school for long enough to
                           actually get near a stack of French toast.  I bet
                           you're the sort of annoying nasal whiny pigfucker

                           short-pantsed overweight American tourist with
                           his annoying nasal whiny pigfucker short-pantsed
                           chubby-kneed fanny-packed wife and pimply spoiled
                           brat kids who ruin my nice civilized weekends in
                           France.  Geeze Louise, stay home and shut up. -John
                           \_ wow.
               \_ Meanwhile the US was busy using it's status as the only major
                  industrial nation to survive WWII intact to keep the white
                  man in power and then repeating the same foolish French
                  imperial dreams in Vietnam on a bigger scale.
                  \_ Wow, confused race politics and a complete
                     misunderstanding of every element of the Vietnam war,
                     all in one convinent package!  Only $19.95!
                     \_ No!  It's FREE!  (Click this REMOVE link to be taken
                        off our opt-in list)
                     \_ The Vietnamese certainly saw the American War as
                        a war of national liberation. It is only a few
                        dumbass 'Mericans who bought the domino theory,
                        hold the line against communism crapola. The same
                        fools that buy the "Operation Iraqi Liberation is a
                        critical piece in The War Against Terror" I guess.
                  \_ This guy has been desperately trolling "the old french
                     who got themselves all killed are real men worthy of
                     worship" has finally succeeded in soliciting some
                     response.
                     \_ Congrats, you just squished two people's changes.
                        Please use motdedit or aquire a lock before making
                        changes.
                        \_ I never force-write.  So try again.
2004/4/14-15 [Politics] UID:13202 Activity:moderate
4/14    Capt. Yee's reprimand overturned.
        \_ Good news.  Teach those bastards a lesson.
        \_ "While I believe that Chaplain Yee's misconduct was wrong, I do
           not believe, given the extreme notoriety of his case in the news
           media, that further stigmatizing Chaplain Yee would serve a just
           and fair purpose," Hill said, describing his decision as "one of
           mercy, not necessarily law."
           \_ The "misconduct" is the unwarranted 76-day detention of Yee,
              much of it in solitary confinement.  Add to that the mutual
              face saving and ass covering by the army people involved, at
              Yee's expense.
              \_ URL that shows the 76 days was against military code?
                 \_ They may not have violated the letter of the law, but they
                    violated its spirit.
                    \_ spirit?  yeah whatever.  nice try, troll.
                       \_ Wait:  You think he was treated fairly and without
                          discrimination or prejudice?  And I'm the troll?
                          \_ Never attribute stupidity to troll.
              \_ i'd rather have solitary confinement then get raped by
                other inmates
                \_ Haven't you ever seen a prison movie?  After a couple of
                   months in the Hole, you'll be begging for human contact,
                   even if it means rape.
                   \_ Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
2004/4/14-15 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:13203 Activity:nil
4/14    Any recommendations for a mouse that makes silent "clicks"?
        \_ you want one with a mushy spring?  for what?
           \_ No, I don't want a mushy spring. It's for a house-mate of
              mine who plays solitare. It is now like chinese water
              torture. We are looking for a mouse with the same action as a
              normal mouse but without the annoying kul-ick.
              \_ Three words: "deck of cards." Why anyone uses a computer to
                 play this game is beyond me.
              \_ use a trackpad, tap, tap, tap.
              \_ Maybe he/she should stop playing solitaire and get a life.
        \_ Have you tried just taking some cheap mouse apart and trying to
           get rid of whatever makes the click?
           \_ it's the switches under the buttons.
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13204 Activity:nil
4/14    For every American hero killed, we should dispose of 100 Iraqi
        terrorists.
        \_ you mean dispose 100% terrorist before an American is killed
           \_ I mean this will teach those Iraqi terrorists a good lesson.
              \_ Especially those who were pro-American before an errant
                 bomb decimated their village.
                 \_ Name an Iraqi village that got decimated by an errant bomb.
                 \_ Bombs are smart but people are stupid, at least the
                    terrorists are.  They just don't want to be liberated.
2004/4/14-15 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:13205 Activity:high
4/14    A hospital official in Fallujah claims many of the 600 victims who've
        died in the weeklong U.S. Marine crackdown in Fallujah were women,
        children and the elderly. But Marine Lt. Col. Brennan Byrne said an
        investigation of the dead will likely discover "95 percent of those
        were military age males." -April 11
        http://www.nbc5i.com/news/2993428/detail.html

        Just before dawn Wednesday, however, AC-130 Spectre gunships launched
        a devastating punitive raid over a six-block area around where the
        convoy was attacked, firing dozens of artillery shells that shook the
        city and lit up the sky. Marine officials said the area was virtually
        destroyed and that no further insurgent activity had been seen there.
        -April 14
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12526-2004Apr14.html
        \_ Why are women and the elderly exempt? Kids, too, if they are
           gonna shoot (e.g. during the Iran-Iraq conflicts).
           \_ Basically Al Jazeera shows injured/dead babies on TV because
              they think the U.S. can offer no defense.  The idea is similar
              with women, children, and old people.

        Just before dawn Wednesday, however, AC-130 Spectre gunships launched
        a devastating punitive raid over a six-block area around where the
        convoy was attacked, firing dozens of artillery shells that shook the
        city and lit up the sky. Marine officials said the area was virtually
        destroyed and that no further insurgent activity had been seen there.
        -April 14
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12526-2004Apr14.html
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:13206 Activity:nil
4/14    Minister Franco Frattini told Italian state television that the
        nation's ambassador to Qatar viewed a portion of the videotaped
        execution and confirmed that the slain hostage was Fabrizio
        Quattrocchi, who was working in Iraq as a private security guard.
        ... Al-Jazeera said it did not broadcast the tape because it was too
        graphic. ... In a statement delivered with the tape, the
        hostage-takers blamed Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi for
        Quattrocchi's slaying ... and went on to say that the hostage-takers
        will kill one hostage at a time until all their demands are met. -CNN
        http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/14/iraq.hostages.int/index.html
        \_ Yes, it is Berlusconi's fault that this guy chose to go to Iraq as
           a private citizen working for a private company in a private
           capacity as a security guard for a private target.  The bastard!
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:13207 Activity:kinda low
4/14    Why We Will Never Abandon Iraq
        http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12981
        \_ This article has more guts in it's pinky finger than most
           do in their intestines.
        \_ The title should read, "No Matter How Much Bush Fucked It Up,
           We Have To Stay"
           \_ No, it should say "No Matter How Much Clinton Fucked It Up,
              America will do the Right Thing."
              \_ I think you're talking about Al Qaeda, not Iraq, and even
                 that's a subject of great argument
2004/4/14-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:13208 Activity:nil
4/14    Is there a way to set the window frame color of non-highlighted
        windows in fvwm2 without using FvwmTheme?  I can only find a color
        setting for "Hilighted" (focused) windows:
        Style "*" HilightBack #777700
        Style "*" HilightFore #cccccc
2004/4/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29925 Activity:nil
4/13    http://csua.com
        \_ DUDE!
2004/4/14 [Uncategorized] UID:29926 Activity:nil
4/13    [ no, let's delete old technical stuff too, you asswipe. ]
        \_ restored.
2004/4/14 [Transportation/Car] UID:29927 Activity:nil
4/14    Buying a car and thinking about using Progressive for insurance...
        Anybody have and positive/negative feedback about them? Thanks.
        \_ I use progressive for my motorcycle and for my car before it
           got stolen.  The rates were ok and they were always friendly.
           Never had to make a real claim though.  (I only had liability
           on the car.)
2004/4/14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:29928 Activity:nil
4/14    Let's set some rules on what gets to stay and what gets deleted.
        I say each thread gets to stay for 8 hours after it stops
        becoming active (no new information added).  Hours at night
        12 midnight - 8 a.m doesn't count as time passed.  Informational
        threads like job openings get to stay longer.
        \_ That relies on people playing nice.  There's a hierarchy of
           lamers who don't:  first, the motd censors.  Lame.
           Lamer:  people who retaliate against everyone else for the
           actions of the ceensors.  Very lame, and akin to terrorism.
        \_ Perhaps 8hrs is a little long.  The motd can get pretty big
           pretty quickly.  Aside from that, I would think guidelines
           would be a good idea.
2004/4/14 [Uncategorized] UID:29929 Activity:nil
4/14    Woohoo!  First poster after another Nuke Fest!  Does that make
        me Mad Max?
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:April:14 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>