Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:20 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/2/20-21 [Computer/SW] UID:12317 Activity:nil
2/20    Why do Sr. Systems Engineers make more than a Software Architect?
        \_ because the software architect sucks?
        \_ one a senior and the other is not?
          \_ the invisible hand of the market at work...
        \_ Here's how it works in the real world: you get paid what you can
           get, not what you're worth.  Titles are bullshit.
2004/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:12318 Activity:nil
2/20    Maybe I couldn't parse the man page for kill, but why does
                kill -HUP -a
        kill the shell I am currently in?.  It should produce an error
        \_ if I had to guess, the "-a" is run through atoi() and it comes up
           with "0", which commonly means "kill this process group" the -HUP
           well, I'll assume you know that.
2004/2/20-21 [Uncategorized] UID:12319 Activity:nil
2/20    Any comment on togetherhost?  tia.
2004/2/20 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Tax] UID:12320 Activity:low
        \_ interesting, there are lots of articles about the total
           slime (but probably Hero Of The Revolution to a strict
           100 percent Let Corporations Do Whatever The Fuck They
           Want In All Case, Common Sense Be Damned You Smelly
           Socialist Hippie free market guy) who runs the network
           of shadowy tax free industry lobbyist front groups
           behind and other sites, Rick Berman,
           NO NOT THE STAR TREK GUY, ok let's begin:
           So I find it fascinating that this guy, who is VERY well
           paid, in millions per year, to head a trio of non profits,
           that are directly funded by Phillip Morris, to cry
           and whine about the funding of PETA.   Give me a break.
           The deeper argument here is not at all about PETA,
           but why don't assholes like Rick Berman get pancreatic
           cancer, the world would be much better off.
           \_ also I bet Rick Berman was the inspiration for
              a lot of the really funny book "Thank You For Smoking"
           \_ oooh, you're so sexy when you wear your tinfoil hat and use
              "shadowy" to describe someone that any ninny like you can
              find out everything on using google.  sheesh.  even if berman
              is a total asshole and is better off dead that doesn't mean
              peta is anything but a bunch of cocksuckers and better off
              dead either.
          \_ kinney? is that you?
        \_ This petition is idiotic.  First they say PETA is engaged
           in all sorts of nevarious criminal activity, which may well be
           true, but then they say that this means that they shouldn't be
           tax exempt as a non-profit, which is what their petition if for.
           That's just dumb.  If they're criminals, call for them to be
           investigated as such, but unless they're atually in danger of turning
           into a for-profit corporation, this is unfounded.  When a cult
           religion decides to go nuts and kill a bunch of people, we don't
           go round saying they're not really a religion and take away their
           non profit status, we convict the leaders of crimes.
                \_ you know all those urls I posted detailing the background
                   of the slimebags behind, they weren't
                   that foaming at the mouth and were actually quite well thought
                   out, i think it's important to understand the context of
                   who writes this crap, i hate you selective motd censor.
                                           \- your petition has been heard.
           \_ I do not think you understand how the legal system operates
              in this or other law based country, and you are mixing
              sentiments, which I share, with legal tactics.  You go after
              the bad guys with EVERY legal arsonal.  Like you attack
              terrorists on financial front as well as military front
              (and yes if terrorists are using non-profit foundations then
               their tax-exmpt status should be revoked - that will cripple
               them faster).
               \_ Ok, mister legal scholar.  Name one case where this
                  "legal tactic" was effective.
                  \_ There are legion.  Some of the mafia cases were cracked
                     first with an IRS violation.  Illegal income are rarely
                     reported to IRS.  Usually it is easier to prove that you
                     failed to report an income than to prove that income comes
                     from murderous activities.  I can't recall any precedent
                     involving non-profit but it would be in the same vein.
                  \_ Which mobster was it that went down on a single IRS
                     conviction for failure to fully report his income yet got
                     away with untold numbers of other crimes including murder?
                     Was it Capone?
        \_ PETA is cool. It's Malthusianism taken to it's logical
           extremist conclusion. I wonder if people who are activily
           involved in PETA are clinically insane.
           \_ I've known some PETA people and they all seemed sane enough
              to me. One of them is now wanted by the FBI for bombing some
              animal research labs, though. Another one is a lawyer
              for Wilson and Sansini now though, so whattya know.
              \_ Now aren't you morally obliged to turn that bomber in?
                 \_ this is a different poster, but no one has seen
                    the guy in months, either in real life or online.
                    critical path was just full of freaks!
        \_ people eat tasty animals.
           \_ Anyone rememeber back in the day when was registered by
              the group People Eating Tasty Animals?  Probably back in 1997...
              \_ Yeah, those were the days, I remember them fondly.  WTF?!
                 Who cares who owned which random fuck domain 7 years ago?
        \_ I am a fruitarian and I believe vegetables have a life force
        and the peta people are killing innocents.. PETOV
              \- the nature conservancy as also been corrupted by liberal
                 hypocrites ...
                 [ might be a whacko organization but much
                 of this was unearthed [NPI] by the washinton post ...
                 i couldnt find the story in their "deep web"]. --psb
        \_ Soylent Green Fuel and Soylent Green Battery.
        \_ Meat is murder!  Salad is slaughter!  Jainism or bust!
2004/2/20-25 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Recreation/Sports] UID:12321 Activity:nil
2/20    Looking to contract out some work to experienced game
        artists who don't suck ass.  email
                          \_ What I do in my own time is none of your business!
        \_ I'm still concerned about sucking ass.  I'm an experienced game
           artist but how do I know in advance if I suck ass?  Thanks!
        \_ What exactly does it mean to suck ass?  Does it require the act of
           physically putting someone's entire ass in one's mouth while
           applying oral suction?  Would one buttock be enough?  What if the
           ass were too large to fit within the oral cavity?  Would whatever
           smaller of piece of ass one could fit and apply suction upon still
           count as sucking ass?  Thanks!
           \_ Ass sucking is not the proper nor terribly pleasurable way to
              treat an ass. See PETA argument above for more details.
              \_ Instead of looking for someone who won't mistreat an ass,
                 shouldn't poster be telling what they *are* looking for?
                 \_ I'm going to take a wild guess here, and say he might
                    be looking for experienced game artists.
                    \_ Yes, but he already says that.  So he really wants
                       experienced game artists who don't "suck ass".  I'm
                       concerned with the ass sucking part.  Before I send my
                       portfolio in I'd like to know if I've been sucking ass
                       or maybe I have been but I've been doing it wrong or
                       something.  It's good to be prepared for these things.
                       \_ I think I can say with confidence that blojo has
                          no interest in hiring you.  -tom
                          \_ you "think" you can say that with "confidence"?
                             \_ you expected better from tom?
2004/2/20 [Uncategorized] UID:12324 Activity:nil
(extended whine nuked, but silly discussions preserved in deference to
 silly whiners' sensitivities.)
2004/2/20 [Reference/Tax] UID:12325 Activity:high
2/20    I exercised my options last year. According to the etrade form, the
        sale price was $25,600, the option price was $13,7500, and the total
        gain was $11,850. Of the total gain, etrade already calculated taxes,
        social security, state, etc, which came out to be $5077.73. So
        actually I only got back around $6700. Here is my question. Since
        I already got taxed, do I have to report a net earning of $6700?
        The etrade form says "W-2 Income: $11850.00". If I tell them that
        I made extra $11850, wouldn't I get taxed twice?
        \_ Etrade already withheld your taxes.  You should report it as a
           W-2 income.
        \_ The very first question is:  Are they NQ options or ISO?  The tax
           ramifications are different for the two.
        \_ I've never dealt with any stock options, but I think you're
           supposed to report the full 11k income, but also report the
           $5k you paid in taxes  So you won't get taxed twice, but the
           $5k you paid in taxes may be adjusted depending on how much your
           other income was.
           \_ Yeah, what he said.
           \_ Ok, so I had a temp job and I made about $3000. My total
                income last year was $11,850 + $3000. Approximately how
                much tax will I have to pay back/receive? I'm asking because
                this is such an insignificant amount (I'm taking a leave of
                absence) and I'm thinking of not reporting the $11850
                income at all. I know this is not right but I will do it
                if I can get away with it.                      -op
                \_ Don't be a dumbass. File and you will get most of
                   the $5k you already paid back as a refund. The IRS
                   already knows you made the $11k. Don't think you can
                   outclever them.
                   \_ Actually, if you only made $14,850 last year and no
                      one else can claim you as a dependent, you'll get
                      all of it back.  File.  You're only penalizing yourself
                      if you don't.
                      \_ how do you know this?
                         \_ etrade calculated your tax and withheld assuming
                            you have certain level of income.  Since you made
                            almost no extra income, you're in a lower tax
                            bracket for the year.  Don't know if you'd get
                            all of it back as above said, since taxes laws
                            for stock options may be differenct, you should
                            get at least some money back.  It's in your favor
                            to report it correctly and get what you deserve.
                            And as someone said above, etrade reports your
                            income directly to IRS, so don't try to "get
                            away with it."
                            \_ In addition, it looks like you might have been
                               taxed at the "old" rate of 28%. It was changed
                               to 15% at some point last year. You might be
                               owed money thanks to BushCo.
                               \_ Buy lots of fire extinguishers to help
                                  offset the closure of your local fire
                                  department due to lack of funding.
                    \_ Wrong. Why do people who have no idea what they
                       are talking about love to confidently state their
                       opinion on the motd? Check out one of the tax
                       calculators on the web. You will owe something
                       like $600 in total tax burden. If you have paid
                       $5000 already, you will get $4400 back.
2004/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW] UID:12326 Activity:nil
2/20    What's the deal with this "optimized" or "accelerated" dial-ups?
        Do they just cache stuff behind your back?  Compress things?  Just
        a bunch of crap?  What's the deal?
        \_ They compress parts of the download that are easily compressible,
           such as HTML and email text.  I think some of them may also give
           a lower QoS to images, so the 'meat' of webpages loads faster.
           \_ Some also compress (or re-compress) images. E.g., really
              low-quality JPEG.
2004/2/20-21 [Computer/Networking] UID:12327 Activity:low
2/20    Is it the case that north amercia and the rest of the world have
        incompatible wireless lan standard?  I ask because I read an
        announcement from socket comm. that one has to choose between
        a NA and a rest-of-the-world version for their CF wireless LAN card
        now due to FCC regulation.
        \_ Here's a summary of the rules.  It's mostly compatible...
           Notice that the max power outputs are more restrictive in other
           countries.  Not that you'd get arrested for using a higher-power US
           WiFi card.  The only channel PITA seems to be if you travel regularly
           between France, Mexico and Israel.
           \_ thanks.  So recently FCC increase the allowed power output?
        \_ Slightly off-topic, but I just bought a Linksys WRT54G router with
           open-source firmware and it is tha shiznit.
2004/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:12328 Activity:kinda low
2/20    Anyone know of any simple console or php based calendar/appointment
        program?  I just can't get myself to use my palm effectively enough
        to remember stuff.
        \_ PHPiCalendar (source forge project) displays your .ics calendar
           files.  So you could just upload your calendar to your server and
           use it as the front end.  Otherwise, Yahoo! is cool. -brain
        \_ I've recently started using the Yahoo calendar. It is pretty
           useful. The UI can be a bit clunky at times, but it does what
           I want... and web-accessibility is a big plus for me. One cool
           feature I like is that it will send you reminders for appt's
           via SMS msg's to your cell phone.
           \_ Thanks.  I'll try it again and see if it's improved since few
              years back.  I think it was rather slow before.  Now, any
              shell utils? -op
              \_ I have been thinking of writing one. What feature do you want?
              \_ I have been thinking of writing one.
                \_ I don't want to discourage you but there are a lot of them
                   at sourceforge.              -brain
                   \_ but they all suck
                         \_ What would you like it to be?  I have some interest
                            in writing one that I would use myself.
                   at sourceforge.              -brain
                   \_ but they all suck
                      \_ this is what i've found. any evidence say otherwise?
2004/2/20-21 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Networking] UID:12329 Activity:nil
2/20  She's a stanford grad in CS.  Worked as SW
        engineer at Cisco for a while before quitting and becoming a
        singer.  She's better than William Hung.  :-) Here's a link to
        a NPR interview with her:
        \_ I don't think Vienna Teng is her real name.
        \_ beatiful voice. she is not that ugly neither. :p
           \_ not that hot either
              \_ she looks like Bruce Lee
              \_ this one looks worse than the others
                And will-hung's look is not bad.  It's just his software
                seems weak.
                \_ She's a MAN, baby!
                   \_ who?
2004/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:12330 Activity:nil
2/20    Eight year old gets MCSE degree:
        Not only can he setup your website but he'll do it for a cookie.
        And you thought sysadmining was hard...
        \_ there is no such thing as "microsoft certified SOFTWARE engineer"
          he got duped, only "SYSTEMS engineer".
        \_ degree? I thought those were certificates
        \_ It's Windows. It's not supposed to be hard.
2004/2/20-21 [Uncategorized] UID:12331 Activity:nil
2/20    why are people putting in Sunday's date???
        \_ Dude, didn't you know?  The motd is connected to soda
           through a wormhole.  We *are* posting in the future.
2004/2/20-22 [Consumer/Camera] UID:12332 Activity:low
2/20    I'm looking to take up photography.  I'd like a cheap beginner 35mm
        SLR camera.  I've heard Canon and Nikon were good.  Any rec for a
        budget of under $250?  Willing to get used.  Just don't know where
        to start.
        \- why do you want to shoot film? --psb
           \_ No matter how fancy you can get with digital, it's still
              more flexible, challenging, and rewarding to take
              pics with film. Especially if you eventually learn to
              develop film yourself. Anyway, I recommend a Nikon
              camera...they offer the best bodies and lenses. Try
              Abe's of Maine:
              \- are you the OP saying this? i dont mean my
                 question as a tendentious one. i shoot mostly
                 film too for "various reasons". frankly at
                 $250, i am not sure what to say. nikon stuff
                 tends to be a little more expensive than canon
                 so that might be a reason to go with canon.
                 the cheepest nikon lens i know of is the
                 50mm 1.8 for about $90 which is 40% of the
                 allocated budget. if you get a $10 uv filter
                 and a bag, probably 50% of the budget is left.
                 i think bhphoto >> all other photoshops. price
                 diff is nominal vs other tax free mail order.--psb
                        \_ oops, forgot he was on a $250 budget.
                 \_ I want to learn about general photography techniques.  I
                    currently have a digital camera(Canon S230) for just
                    taking regular pictures.  I was under the impression
                    that digital SLR cameras are fairly pricey, and I'd like
                    to slowly learn about and collect lenses before shelling
                    out a grand for a nice digital SLR.  I've been told one
                    of the brands (Canon or Nikon) series is good if I want
                    to go digital SLR later, since I'd be able to use the
                    same lens, but I can't find that info anymore. -op
                 \_ also, I'm not expecting a lot for $250.  I'm looking to
                    start out with just one lens, uv filter, and the body.
                    I'll shell out more dough as I learn more.  I've read
                    that it is possible to get decent used equipments at
                    this price.  I just don't know which equipments to buy
                    or which websites to read. -op
                    \- i wouldnt worry too much about "investment protection"
                       at the $250 level. if you get serious about photography
                       worrying about that small of an investment will just
                       generate friction. BTW, it woulds also be helpful if
                       you mentioned what your interest is ... if you want
                       to shoot around town a decent 50mm may be the way to
                       go. if you want to shoot outdoors, you will need
                       somethign wider, but wont need a fast lens. --psb
                       \_ As I'm just starting to get interested, I don't
                          have any clear purposes yet.  But I imagine I'll
                          use it to take architectural pix as well as some
                          outdoor scenery.  I went out and grabbed the
                          Canon Rebel TI from Costco, which came with a
                          35-80mm f/4-5.6 52mm lens.  (Have no clue if I'm
                          getting the lens terminology right.)  Any thoughts
                          on the body or the lens?  It looks like the body
                          has automatic settings, but also has I think ability
                          to do almost anything manual.  I got it from Costco
                          because I was told that they were clearing it out.
                          I can always return it if I don't like it. -op
                          \_ you made a good choice.  It's a starter SLR
                             camera.  Start with it.  As you get more
                             into it, you can start getting more
                             \_ I'm starting to read up on it, and I believe
                                the body is good, but I think the costco
                                package isn't that good of a deal.  The
                                $299 kit includes body, 35-80mm lens, battery,
                                8 rolls of films, and a camera bag.  I think
                                I'll go online and see if I can get the body
                                with a better lens.  What should I look for?-op
                    \_ you can buy good kits with lens for $250 or so.
                       Again, Nikon N55/N75 or almost any of the Canon
                       Rebel models.
                 \_ Please explain the "more flexible" comment.
                 \_ Are you sure you don't mean making prints yourself?
                    Developing is mostly following procedure.  Printing (at
                    least B&W) can be an art.  But then, you can do some
                    pretty nice things with digital.
                    \- this is not about "can do"; this is about a beginner
                       willing to spend $250.
        \_ it's hard to go wrong with Canon or Nikon.  What about a Canon
        \_ If Canon, then try the Canon Rebel.  If Nikon, try
           the Nikon N75 or the N55.  All can be had, with a lens,
           for $250 or less. is also
           an alternative
           \_ I actually really love my AE-1.  One step up from this would
              be the AE-1 Program.  Pretty much the only automatic features
              are auto-aperature (or auto shutter speed for the AE-1P).
              I like having immediate control over every setting on the
              camera, though.  Three types of control, three switches.  You
              can generally only buy these used any more.  One just sold on
              ebay for $112 with two lenses, flash and power winder.  -sax
           \_ I can't remember which model of Rebel Costco has, but they
              have a kit for $299, which I'm willing to shell out since
              Costco has a good return policy if I don't like it.  Anyone
              know offhand which model it is? carries different
              model from the one at the store. -op
              \_ I think you'll just have to visit costco and find out.
                 Or call them up.
           \- if the N75, N55 restrict you to the "G" lenses, i really
              hate those ... no ap control ring. --psb
2004/2/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12333 Activity:nil
2/22    The motd Gang of Idiots: Chicom Troll, Peakoil Troll, Pretty Boy,
        Humorless Motd Censor, and now Ralph Nader #1 Fan.  Did I miss
        \_ You forgot the Freeper.
           \_ Strange part is, the only person I know that actively participates
              at simply does so as a troll.  I often wonder
              what the ratio of trolls/true believers is at so-called political
              discussion sites.
           \_ would Freeper be the same person as Mouthpiece-Of-Bush ?
        \_ Hey, conservatives are great fans of Ralph Nader.
2004/2/20-21 [Politics] UID:12334 Activity:nil
2/22    Eddie Clontz, editor of the Weekly World News, dead at 56
        Where will we read about Bat Boy now?!
2004/2/20-21 [Academia/UCLA] UID:12335 Activity:nil
2/22    YACRL (yet another college ranking list)--this time Chinese  Cal #4.  -John
        \_ pppppppooooooooooooooinnnnnnnnntlesssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
        \_ i wonder if this is e.u. funded shanghai study mentioned in
           the economist a few weeks ago.
        \_ this url is laughable!
           \_ the first "ed" in it reflects that it is the website for the
              institute on (higher) education.
        \_ UCLA's #15! GO BRUINS!!!!! Beat Bears!       -bruin bear
           \_ Hi paolo!
                \_ wait I thought paolo goes to UCB grad school. Or Stanford.
                   Can't remember.
           \_ 15 > 4, therefore UCLA > Berkeley!
2004/2/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12336 Activity:high
2/20    Ralph Nader is 2004!  Go Ralph go!
        \_ That roaring you hear is thousands of Republicans celebrating
           and writing $2000 donations to Ralph's campaign.
           \_ Now if only we Democrats could convince Perot to run again...
        \_ One more monumentally egotistical American.
           No decision until Sunday.  Then the lynching begins.
           \_ Lynching?  Fuck you.  He has the same right to run as any
              American born citizen over 35.  He *can't* be 'stealing' votes
              from anyone because they aren't 'owned' by anyone but each
              individual owner and their concious.  You think democracy is
              all about lack of choices to force the election of a lesser evil?
              I hope he runs because this country can really use a third
              party.  The other two have failed us as a nation.
              \_ There's a time to stand for your principles.  There's a time
                 to act like an adult and realize that standing for your
                 principles is going to get you fucked up beyond recognition.
                 This is one of those times.  Kerry != Bush.
              \_ he's not taking about running as a third party, he's talking
                 about running as an independent.
                 \_ yes, and?  so what?  that changes nothing re: what I said.
                    if he gets a measurable chunk of votes under any banner
                    his voice will carry weight for positive change.
                    \_ No, his voice will carry weight for getting Bush
                       reelected.  God you hard lefties are stupid.
              \_ Haha, you like Nader? Why bother with Nader? You could just
                 vote for Kucinich. At least Kucinich is respectable and knows
                 how to talk to a crowd. Why didn't Kucinich win? Whatever the
                 reasons it shows that the public seems to want people like
                 Bush and Kerry. They get what they deserve. Now stoofoo.
                 \_ Nader has a public record of success.  Kucinich?  Whatever.
                    I'm in favor of more political choice, not throwing my vote
                    away on the left most wing of the democrat party.
                    \_ A "public record of success"?  One campaign against
                       a dangerous car, 40 years ago?  Kucinich has been
                       in public office for 25 years.  -tom
                       \_ I actually think the Green Party would have a lot
                          higher chance of success if they chose someone other
                          \- higher chance of success for what?
                          than Nader.  Someone who actually stood a chance of
                          winning.  At this point, Nader support is basically
                          just a cult of personality.  He'd probably do more
                          harm for this country than good.  In my opinion.
                          If they got a better representative, I'd probably
                          vote green, though.  -sax
                       \_ PIRG, Public Citizen, The Foundation for Taxpayer
                          and Consumer Rights were all founded by Nader.
                          Because of Nader we have OSHA, the EPA, the FOIA, the
                          Clean Water Act and The Consumer Product Safety
                          Division. Kucinich isn't even close.
                          \_ Yes, I really enjoyed my college tuition being
                             redirected by a front organization for eco-terrorist
                             causes all under some vague name as CalPIRG
                          \_ which planet are you on?
                             \_ What has Kucinich done, tom?
                                         \_ Look anyone who knows the history
                                            of OSHA and the EPA knows that
                                            Nader's Raiders were instrumental
                                            in getting them passed. Research
                                            them yourself and you will see.
                                   The guy was elected to public offices.
                                   Nader wasn't. Nader didn't create those
                                   bloated gov't bodies, because he wasn't in
                                   government. Nader had a long career as a
                                   "consumer watchdog". That has zero relevance
                                   to presidential appeal.
                    \_ That's a laughable comment. Look, the bottom line is
                       that America doesn't want Nader as president. It's
                       obvious. All the posturing and righteous, "outside the
                       system" superiority won't make people vote for him
                       which thankfully is the only way to win. Compromise is
                       part of the process and why there are primaries.
                             \_ What has Kucinich done?
                                \_ He invented the Internet, cured the common
                                   cold, and designed the Mars rover.  If
                                   you're just going to make up
                                   accomplishments, I will, too.
                                   \_ Good thing you didn't sign your name:
                             (US State Dept)
                                      \_ what, two sites sponsored by Nader,
                                         and one by a self-congratulatory
                                         citizen's group that has Nader
                                         on the same page as such notables
                                         as Mike Farrell (BJ Hunicutt from
                                         MASH) and Jack Kevorkian.  Wow,
                                         that's some creds.
                                         \_ Look anyone who knows the history
                                            of OSHA and the EPA knows that
                                            Nader's Raiders were instrumental
                                            in getting them passed. It is not
                                            my fault you are ignorant.
                    \_ That's a laughable comment.
                                            in getting them passed. Research
                                            them yourself and you will see.
                    \_ That's a laughable comment. Look, the bottom line is
                       that America doesn't want Nader as president. It's
                       obvious. All the posturing and righteous, "outside the
                       system" superiority won't make people vote for him
                       which thankfully is the only way to win. Compromise is
                       part of the process and why there are primaries.
2004/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:12337 Activity:nil
2/20    Does the mindterm ssh java client on csua home page work with
        Mozilla 1.6 (for OS X)?  After I typed in password nothing comes out.
        \_ your password was sent to Chirac in France.
2004/2/20-21 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12338 Activity:kinda low
2/20    What France really said about WMD:
        AMANPOUR: Do you believe that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass
        destruction; for instance, chemical or biological weapons?

        PRESIDENT CHIRAC: Well, I don't know. I have no evidence to support
        that... It seems that there are no nuclear weapons - no nuclear weapons
        program. That is something that the inspectors seem to be sure of.

        As for weapons of mass destruction, bacteriological, biological,
        chemical, we don't know. And that is precisely what the
        inspectors' mandate is all about. But rushing into war, rushing
        into battle today is clearly a disproportionate response."
        \_ You and your damn facts!
        \_ "They've got bigger dicks?  BOMB THEM!" --GC
        \_ You mean France only made a single statement about WMD's?  Wow,
           why'd they sign up for 1441 then?
           \_ If he wants to cherry pick to make his points, he can do that.
              He isn't convincing anyone but himself and preaching to the
              choir, but I'm sure it makes him feel good and that's what this
              is all about, right?  Feeling good?
              \_ Y'know what?  Our claim regarding noncomplience with
                 Resolution 1441 has yet to be vindicated.  1441 said to
                 make full disclosure and allow inspectors in.  They made
                 their disclosure and let inspectors in.  We said their
                 disclosure wasn't full.  We have yet to prove ourselves
                 \_ Full disclosure isn't possible anymore since the Iraqis
                    claim they destroyed tons of documents and materials.  You
                    have the whole thing backwards.  We never had to prove
                    1441, it was a requirement for the other side.
                    \_ Reread what I said.  We (The U.S.) claimed that we
                       were right to go in because the actions taken by Iraq
                       hadn't brought them into compliance.  Apparently, as
                       we haven't found evidence to the contrary, they were
                       as much in compliance as possible.  I'm not challenging
                       the resolution.  I'm challenging our unilateral claim
                       that they were still in breach of it. -- And wait a
                       minute..  Reread what you said.  "They claimed they had
                       destroyed ... materials."  So...  They claimed they
                       destroyed it as per 1441, and ... the materials aren't
                       there.  Hrm...  Whose side are you arguing?
               \_ You are the one who has repeatedly claimed that France
                  believed Iraq was in possesion of WMD in spite of
                  overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I have repeatedly
                  asked for proof of your claim and you cannot come up
                  with one shred of evidence. Your position is laughable.
                        That's not what yermom told me! _/
                  So I guess yes, laughing at you makes me feel good.
                  Do you still call them Freedom Fries?
            \_ 1441 was sold to the UN members as a way of forcing Iraq
               to allow weapon's inspectors in. And it worked. It was not
               sold as authorizing a war against Iraq. Remember the US
               tried to go back to the UN and get another authorization
               and gave up once it became clear that France, Russia and
               Germany were all against it? Go read 1441. It warns Iraq
               of "serious consequences" but nothing else. It also
               affirms Iraq's territorial soveriegnty.
              \_ serious consequence like France, Germany loosing their
                 oil contract bribes from Oil for food programs?
                 \_ boo hoo!  those darn germans and french are getting
                    all the contracts.  The only ones who should get
                    contracts from dictators are us!  Like how we got
                    all the weapons and oil contracts from Suharto while
                    all the weapons and oil contracts with Suharto when
                    he was butchering the East Timorese!  The Germans and
                    that we can be te ones to get the oil contracts!
                    Only we can have good motives, the Germans and French
                    can only have ulterior motives!
                    French are not playing fair!  Let's invade Iraq so
                    that we can get our oil contracts!  Only we can have
                    good motives, the Germans and French can only have
                    ulterior motives!
2004/2/20 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29826 Activity:very high
2/20    Restored after some idiot child deleted all the comments.
        This isn't a one-way message board for job postings and one
        word answer technical questions.  It is a discussion forum for
        topics of interest.  If a topic is of no interest to you, then
        ignore it.  Deleting them does not improve the quality of the
        motd, it reduces it by making it more likely that others with
        overlapping interests will cease using the motd because their
        topics keep getting killed and the rest just isn't interesting
        enough for them.  You may miss out on a job posting or
        technical answer because you've ruined the motd months or
        years earlier for a hiring manager or highly skilled person.
        Do yourself a favor and leave the motd alone.  It doesn't need
        you to police it or 'clean it up.  Think of yourself even if
        you have no consideration for others.  Thank you.
        (extended whine nuked, but silly discussions preserved in
        deference to silly whiners' sensitivities.)  [and restored
        twice now because you still don't "get it".]
        \_ Guess what?  The fuckwit censors never will "get it."  The only
           solution is when they get like that, start deleting all the
           technical posts.  After a few days of saturation bombing, the
           fuckers give up.
        \_ tell us about the tragedy of the commons
           \_ this is not tragedy of the commons, go back to read your
              basics of capitalism
                \_ it was a joke.
        \_ There is a technical reason to this.  Those who knows how to
           monitor the motd text file, please either post the script and/or
           post the name of the person who is constantly deleting motd.
2019/01/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:20 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>