Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:07 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2004/9/7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:33379 Activity:very high
9/7     Does anyone have any recommendations for Foriegn bands?  I quite
        like the Mexican Rock band Mana, and the Korean singer Boa is
        sometimes ok.
        \_ TaTu
        \_ Vladimir Vysotskiy, Brathanski, Garmarna, Yann Tiersen, Ali
           Primera, Gilberto Gil, Bebel Gilberto, Astrud Gilberto, Tom Ze,
           Os Mutantes
        \_ If you like rap, MC Solaar has his moments.
        \_ Plastilina Mosh?  Phil's Finest Hour?  Chico Cesar?  Damien Rice?
        \_ Los Fabulosos Cadillacs (actually a hybrid) and Manu Chao are two
           of my favorites. Also, he's been dead for years but nobody's life
           is complete w/o some exposure to Serge Gainsbourg, like him or not.
            -- ulysses
        \_ Do you mean non-English-speaking, or just foreign bands you may
           not have heard of?  I'm a big fan of the Aussie band The Cat
           Empire.  You might also have good luck with the BBC's The World:
           http://www.theworld.org/globalhits/index.shtml
           On a totally unrelated note, has anyone here heard the new Bjork
           album? The two tracks I've heard sound pretty sweet.
        \_ Sektor Gaza, russia most popular rock n roll band
           \_ This must have been a joke, but anyways, just don't listen it in
              front of someone who speaks Russian.. As for Russian rock bands,
              DDT is certainly the best. The rest are just wannabes.
              \_ sektor gaza is awesome! check out these song
                 titles: http://csua.org/u/8y1 -danh
        \_ Hedningarna, Finnish techno-rock-folk group.
        \_ It'd be helpful if you mentioned what type of music you were
           interested in, but:
                Brazil: Carlinhos Brown, Caetano Veloso, Os Mutantes, Tom Ze
                Argentina: Reynols, Astor Piazzolla
                Scotland: The Delgados, The Pastels
                Scandinavia: 22-Pisterpirkko, Pan sonic, Stina Nordenstam,
                        Flesh Quartet, Sigur Ros
                Germany: Jan Delay, Absolut Beginner, Can, Neu
                France/Africa: Les Nubians, Khaled, Natacha Atlas
                \_ Finland: FINNTROLL
           Check out http://allmusic.com and/or pick up a copy of the Wire.
        \_ Why do you hate America?
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:33380 Activity:moderate
9/7     I'm people will be shocked shocked shocked! by this story ...
        The media (in this case FOX news) can legally lie:
        My favorite part: "During their appeal, FOX asserted that there are
        no written rules against distorting news in the media."
        http://csua.org/u/8xy
        \_ If the media couldn't lie, how would you allow for satire like
           the Onion?  This seems like a no-brainer to me. Even aside from
           satire, do you really want a precedent of the government punishing
           media for saying what they say isn't "true?"
           \_ In the case of willful misrepresentation, yes, I am prepared to
              live with that.  Satire, by its very nature, does not pretend to
              be true, and thus would not be subject to these regulations.
              \_ and you're willing to let some court decide what is and
                 what isn't satire? wow.  out of curiosity, do you consider
                 yourself to be a "liberal" or "conservative?"
                 \_ Actually, courts have to decide that all the time, such as
                    in libel/slander cases.  See the Falwell v. Flynt case.
                    - !pp
        \_ w00t!
        \_ The NYT and LAT will be pleased to know that.
        \_ In case it's not clear, the reporters are appealing the case. No
           news yet.
        \_ All the tabloid at groceries store cash registers have been lying
           anyway.
           \_ You mean Bat Boy hasn't escaped?!
2004/9/7 [Uncategorized] UID:33381 Activity:very high
9/7     Hi, can anyone confirm the potential risks associated with the courtesy

        flush?  I appreciate other people doing it but I'm afraid to try it
        myself.
        \_ I believe flushing toilets does not spew nearly as many microbes
           into the air as taking a shower does. -MCB major
           into the air as taking a shower does.  There's a URL dismissing
           the toilet factor -- if someone can find it, pls post it. -MCB major
           \_ What about non-aerosol splashback?  My ass will be just inches
              from water that's swirling chaotically.
        \_ just accept that bathrooms, especially communal/public ones, are
           dirty places.  Accept that, after doing whatever it is you do in
           there, you need to wash up.  Aerosol splashback is nothing.  You
           inhale much worse just walking outside.  Worried about your ass?
           Then wipe it off with something.  At the same time, though, it's
           probably a good goal to keep the stench down as much as you can.
           It's the polite thing to do.
        \_ I hope you are a girl.
        \_ What's courtesy flush anyway?
           \_ Flush after you create a terrible smell but before you are
              finished.  Cuts down on the stink but some chance of foul
              splash-back.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:33382 Activity:insanely high
9/7     She has guts
        Malkin to speak.  Berkeley:
        http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/09/07/BAGRA8KN0U1.DTL
        \_ She probably won't be allowed to get past "Good Evening."
           Especially in this case I think the protesters would be better
           served letting her speak, since her ideas are mostly
           ridiculous, but a lot of Berkeley people just can't seem to
           help being obnoxious.
           \_ Yep.  Berkeley students don't have much respect for free speech.
              If the Daily Cal mentions her visit, the entire day's edition
              will probably be destroyed.  If she brings books with her,
              they'll most likely be burned.
        \_ I don't see how anyone can take her seriously, I read her book
           too.  I like how the guy at the end of the above story
           (who happens to be a crazed French immigrant, if that matters
           at all) says he's not convinced interning the Japanese in
           America in WW2 was such a bad thing. - danh
        \_ serious question: in the 40s, what would you do to help
           secure our safety?  I'm open to hearing different views
           \_ We should have imprisoned US residents originally from our
              enemies' ethnic or national origins, given enormous amounts
              of guns and financial aid to whoever was fighting them, ramped
              up industrial production like crazy people, then murderously
              battled them back inch by inch, island by island, hedgerow by
              hedgerow, while flattening their cities into blackened rubble
              and eventually turning whatever was left into glowing parking
              lots.  -John
           \_ We should have pulled out of the Pacific area.  The Japanese
              only used the attack at Pearl Harbor as a last resort to
              respond to our meddling in Asia.  They would have left us
              alone had we pulled out.
              \_ I think I see your reasoning, but remember that Japan and
                 Germany were allies; if the enemy of my enemy is my friend,
                 then the friend of my enemy is my enemy.
                 \_ We have no compelling interest in the defense of Europe.
                    Neither Japan nor Germany wanted to invade the US.  We
                    were the ones who drove Japan to war with us by our
                    discriminatory and crippling trade practices with them.
                    \_ Wow.  Evil motd today.  *golf clap* -- ilyas
              \_ That's really a 'hindsight is 20-20' suggestion.  At the time
                 we were interested in containing our aggressive rival.  Any
                 suggestion to pull back would probably have been seen as
                 uncalled for and cowardly.
                 \_ Someone asked how we could have secured our safety.  I
                    answered.  Would pulling out not be better for our
                    security and vastly preferable to a two-front war in
                    Europe and Asia?  The Axis powers were our enemy only
                    because we drove them to become our enemies.  They would
                    have gladly left us alone had we the wisdom to leave them
                    alone in turn.
                 \_ It's easier to think about the WW1 situation. We clearly
                    didn't have any particular need to go fight Germany then.
                    With the help of German diplomatic mistakes it was easy to
                    get the public to go along and help fight a meaningless
                    political war that set the stage for WW2.
                \_ it's impossible to pull out after Pearl Harbor. The Japs
                   were stupid to attack Pearl Harbor. If they had just kept
                   quiet in the Pacific then they'd have a much better chance
                   of dominating the Pacific.
                   \_ The Japanese also attacked America's colony
                      in the Far East and attacked and killed Americans
                      there.
        \_ The Japanese should have won. Then the world would be much more
           Asian friendly than it is now.
           \_ Japanese penis so small.
        \_ I think you're all missing the point, or at least my point,
           that Michelle Malkin is totally nuts and doesn't have
           a very deep understanding of history.   If you take her
           argument that there were several Japanese on the west coast
           and they could have caused trouble, that makes little sense.
           The people who managed the interning of the Japanese population
           did not have access to and did not know about any secret
           MAGIC Japanese military communications.  The true naval
           threat to the US, the germany navy, was very active off
           of the east coast, in the Atlantic, I have read that several
           German and Italian Americans lived on the east coast, why
           weren't they forcefully uprooted and kept in the middle
           of nowhere?  The whole fake controversy sounds like a David
           Horowitz brainstorm, does anyone really truly care today
           about reperations paid to Japanese Americans?  I never heard
           of someone writing that the internment was misunderstood
           until recently.  Does anyone remember how David Horowitz
           raised a shitstorm several years ago about reperations
           to slaves? - danh
           \_ ok i amend the above, a few italians and germans were
              interned.  not 120k of them - danh
           \_ David Horowitz will never be able to get over the fact that he
              was once a Black Panther associate and a self-styled left wing
              "radical."  He breathes the fire of the born again.  He's a
              bloviator for sure.
           \_ That you haven't heard anything about it before means nothing.
              A majority of those detained were either Japanese expatriates
              or Japanese dual citizens.  Some of these even
              returned to Japan to fight against the US.
              In other countries conquered by the Japanese the members
              of the expatriate communities were quick to establish
              Japanese surrogate governments.
              The Pacific fleet was completely destroyed, invasion was
              a very real possiblity.  Any credible military commander
              would have considered internment.  It made sense at the time,
              just as detaining German and Italian citizens did.
              \_ Reagan was fooled into apologizing for internment by a stacked
                 pro-reparations commission!
              \_ http://csua.org/u/8yf (wikipedia)
                 "Among academics, the broad historical consensus is that the
                 camps were indeed a product of wartime hysteria and racism
                 rather than arising from legitimate fears of sabotage."
                 -- When it occurred at a time I didn't live, and the area
                 has been researched this well, and I don't smell bias, and
                 historians who lived in this time came to this consensus, I
                 believe broad historical consensus, not a conservative
                 young-un born in 1970.
2004/9/7 [Reference/Celebration] UID:33383 Activity:nil 66%like:23408 66%like:36477
9/7     Happy Birthday, Google!
        \_ What, no flames or trolls?  Wtf?  Where is everyone this week?
           \_ with yermom
2004/9/7 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:33384 Activity:nil
9/7     And touching on videogames, I've seen some people pretty excited
        for Gradius V, which comes out in spetember.  I played this game
        at the cgexpo.  It's really annoying. It feels more like it's
        mocking the 2D shooter genera than tring  to be a good one.
        You've got all the enemies flying around you, shooting at you
        from every possible angle, and you're stuck shooting straight to
        the right side of the screen.  It's like the game is saying, "If
        you were in 3D you could move around like this boss, but you
        can't.  You're only 2D.  You can only shoot at the right side of
        screen.  Too bad there are no enemies over there.  Ha, ha!"
2004/9/7-8 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/Theory] UID:33385 Activity:kinda low
9/7     what is the answer to a negative number modulo some positive
        number? is it that same negative number?
        \_ -1 % 4 = 3, -2 % 4 = 2, -5 % 4 = 3.  I think.
           \_ That's not what bc or mscalc.exe say, but MS Excel agrees w/you!
        \_ Ask Dr. Math: http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52343.html
        \_ In mathematics, a mod b where b is positive always returns positive.
           In C and C++, the '%' operator is pronounced 'remainder' and the
           results of a % b if a is negative is implementation defined.
        \_ Also Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:33386 Activity:kinda low
9/7     In the Krugman v. O'Reilly clip, the latter person goes wild.
        He learned his lesson, since in the O'Reilly v. Moore interview,
        O'Reilly was calm and the latter person went wild.  Subsequently,
        Moore learned his lesson and was calm at the GOP convention (making
        the GOP delegates look nuts) and in his USA Today columns.
        (If you had to ask me, O'Reilly at the time thought it was okay to go
        nuts since Krugman said he was a liar -- but O'Reilly realized Krugman
        just knew how to push his buttons and was no lightweight either.)
        \_ Krugman is just a lot smarter and more in control of himself
           that either one of those other guys.
           \_ That isn't saying much.
              \_ Neither of those guys is dumb. They might both have
                 some impulse control issues, though. Krugman has
                 taught at Harvard, Stanfurd and MIT. It would hard
                 to find anymore smarter and more knowledgeable about
                 economics.
2004/9/7 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:33387 Activity:high
9/7     Is there a way to FTP over an entire directory (in FreeBSD) to
        another machine?
        \_ scp -r <directory> user@anothermachine:
                \_ I can't scp; I only have FTP access to the remote
                   machine.
        \_ mget
        \_ ftp, then "prompt off", then "mget -R" - danh
        \_ any reason you cant just tar it first?
           \_ Maybe he can't log in?
        \_ wget -r
2004/9/7 [Consumer] UID:33388 Activity:kinda low
9/7     Hi, I have a Hitachi 80 GB drive.  It's begun failing.  The five
        minutes after a cold boot it's fine.  Then it starts clicking a bit,
        but gets worse over time; after half an hour, it is choking for 1-5
        seconds on random sectors every 10-30 seconds.  When I run Drive
        Fitness Check, it reports bad sectors but nothing else.  Can I return
        it?  I'm hoping someone knows to save me the trouble calling tech
        support.  I've returned two dead drives to Hitachi without calling
        before, but those were easy.  Thanks.
        \_ Return it with a description of the problem.  What's the worst they
           could do?  Tell you "It sort-of works!"?
           \_ I'm afraid they'll say, "Bad sectors mean it hasn't failed yet."
              But thanks, this is probably what I'll do.  I am wondering if
              I should also write:  "If it doesn't qualify, please don't send
              it back." -op
        \_ Drop the drive on the ground a couple times.  You should have no
           trouble returning it then.
           \_ Although I know above is a joke, I understand they have "ways"
              of determining whether it's user damage. (damage to external
              casing, i.e., hammer marks)
              \_ While it's running and reading/writing, shake it like mad.
                 \_ Like a Poloroid?
        \_ had the exact same problem with my WD drive. Turns out that when
           it gets really hot (after 30 min) it starts to do the exact same
           thing. Try to cool it down using a fan, back it up, then return
           or exchange it.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:33389 Activity:high
9/7     After the Democratic convention and the last couple months, is it too
        late to recast Kerry as anything other than the Vietnam guy?
        \_ Certainly not.  If he picks two or three main points and gets the
           talking heads to parrot his talking points, he could easily enter
           October as the "We can do better" guy.
        \_ IMO, Kerry can spend a little time on Vietnam (basically be morally
           outraged and say it was all done in '96), but focus on for George
           W. Bush:  W. stands for "Wrong".
        \_ Play populist.  Show how GWBs policies have favored the rich and
           screwed the middle class (no-one likes to consider themselves poor).
           Ask "Where's Osama?" and point out half-assed security measures.
        \_ Do people have a memory that extends further back than 2 months?
           \_ It's easily modified.  E.g., even though there were no WMDs in
              Iraq, nukular weapons are the real threat.  Our use of force
              in Iraq caused Libya to give up its nukular program!  Anyway,
              the whold world thought we'd find WMDs in Iraq!
              \_ Bush had more than 2 months to change perception.
        \_ Is this your first presidential campaign? The campaign season
           just officially began.
           \_ Gallop poll, since 1980, at the start of September (polling
              number eyeballed from graph) and actual result:
              1980      Reagan tied, Reagan won at 50.8%
              1984      Reagan ahead at 57%, Reagan won at 59%
              1988      Bush ahead at 48%, Bush won at 53.9%
              1992      Clinton ahead at 50%, Clinton won at 43.2%
              1996      Clinton ahead at 53%, Clinton won at 49.9%
              2000      Tied, Bush won by winning the tie breaker
              If you bothered to do some research, you might actually learn
              something.  Is this your first election?
              \_ No, I have followed many campaigns. That is why I know
                 any question asked at the start of the campaign season
                 asking "is it too late" is really really stupid.
                 \_ I see.  And it's just coincidence that the candidate
                    leading the race in the start of September has won
                    every presidential since the 1980 (that I've bothered
                    to look)?  In fact, since the 1930's (when Gallop starting
                    tracking elections), only in 1960 did the leading candidate
                    in the start of September lose an election.  In 9/1960,
                    Kenneday was behind 46% vs 47%, and he won the election
                    with 50.1% of the vote.  Nah, just a coincidence.
                    \_ No, it just shows that elections are decided by
                       something other than personalities. The economy
                       in September determines the winner in November,
                       except during exceptional years.
                       \_ Now, how does this claim jive with your previous
                          claim that "*any* question asked at the start of
                          the campaign season asking 'is it too late' is
                          really really stupid."?  (Emphasis added.)
                          \_ I believe he's claiming that this is an
                             exceptional year.  I would tend to agree.
                             !the above guy
                             \_ Note that he didn't say "in an exceptional
                                year".  He stated it as a general principle.
                                Note also that he repeatedly asked "is this
                                your first election?".  The only reason to
                                ask that would be to use the history of
                                previous elections as a guide to what will
                                happen this time.  This is clearly contrary
                                to a claim that history doesn't apply because
                                this is an exceptional election.
2004/9/7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:33390 Activity:high
9/7     HEIL! I hate Juden, but I have a tender side too!
      http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/07/film.hitler.reut/index.html
        \_ SPRINGTIME for Hitler and Germany!
        \_ "Not many people know it, but the Fuhrer was a terrific dancer."
        \_ Allen Tom says that he was a vegetarian.
2004/9/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:33391 Activity:nil
9/7     Has anyone used USB under NT by running some third-party driver?  Does
        it work as well as in Win2k or XP?  Thanks.
        \_ no. but i have to wonder, why?
           \_ Because I don't have 2K or XP.
2004/9/7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic] UID:33392 Activity:high
9/7     <DEAD>www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=9969&c=50<DEAD>
        Flag burning amendment to be called for vote.
        \_ When will they ratify the constitution-as-toilet-paper amendment?
        \_ interesting. How about a billboard that shows flag burning?
           Or a screen saver? Or just talking about it? How about theatrical
           play that simulates the burning of the flag?
           \_ It will probably say something like "Physical destruction or
              desecration of the flag is prohibited".  But if that's the case,
              what if someone made a flag from 2 halves, but didn't sow them
              together ad then burned the pieces next to each other?
              What about destroying an old 48-star flag?  Is it really the US
              flag anymore?
           \_ In Germany just about any such hypothetical scenario involving
              the swastica involves the word 'no.'  There was this really neat
              the swastika involves the word 'no.'  There was this really neat
              WWII strategy game called Hearts of Iron and it had the Kaiser
              era flag for the German side, because the game company didn't
              feel like making a separate german version.  *sigh* -- ilyas
              \_ yeah, I don't really see any difference between a swastika
                 and a U.S. flag
                 \_ Well, as far as I am concerned there should not be any
                    restrictions on either.  German policy on the swastika
                    is like a little kid who closes his eyes and hopes the
                    bogey man will go away. -- ilyas
                    bogey man will go away.  Actually, a point is worth
                    emphasizing here -- the Constitution prohibits the US
                    government from drawing ideological distinctions as far
                    as free speech is concerned.  That's a Very Good Thing (tm).
                      -- ilyas
        \_ Why do you hate America?
           \_ Which would you prefer, burn the flag or burn the Constitution?
                \_ Lets do both at the same time!
        \_ Hasn't this idiotic flag-burning amendment been introduced into every
           session of Congress for the last 25 years or something?  There must
           be some districts in which introducing this bill is a requirement
           for holding office.  The chances of this actually passing are nil.
2004/9/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:33393 Activity:nil
9/7     Anybody ever try stevia?
        \_ I've used it.  It's a little gross, but less so than aspartame.
           It's not really a sugar substitute, but it would do for an
           aspartame substitute.  (Although it's expensive.)  -tom
2004/9/7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33394 Activity:nil
9/7     Heheh, such a strange coincidence...
        'US Death toll in Iraq passes 1000 mark'...4:27PM, Sept. 7th 2004.
        http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2782294
        'Ridge: Terrorists hope to disrupt election.' ... 4:40PM, Sept. 7th
        2004.
        http://csua.org/u/8y9
        \_ Dang. I was hoping to hit 1000 on 9/11.
           \_ don't worry, you can rent Fahrenheit 9/11 in October.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33395 Activity:nil
9/7     NYT on Kerry's prospects.  http://csua.org/u/8y4
        \_ ob article from a paper that wants Dubya to go down. -liberal
           (even though it's less inaccurate than "Kerry is toast!")
           \_ Have you read the article?
              \_ Yeah, just pointing out that the NY Times does want Dubya out
                 \_ That might matter on the editorial page, but it has
                    no effect on the news reporting.
                    \_ ... if the NY Times didn't let their personal opinions
                       affect their news reporting.  This is the point of
                       contention.  I guess I'm not arguing for or against on
                       that point, but I'll wait and see.
                       \_ I predict that President Bush will win California!
                          \_ LANDSLIDE IS THE STANDARD!
        \_ In every election except one since the 1930's, the Gallup poll
           leader at the start of September has won the election.  Margin
           changes, intermediate lead changes, but in every presidential
           except the 1960 one the September leader ended up winning the
           election.  The only exception is Kennedy 1960, when he was behind
           46% vs 47% and won with 50.1% of the final vote.  This doesn't
           mean that Kerry is doomed, since this is a very unusual election,
           but he clearly has history against him.
           \_ Never before has the convention occured just before Sep 1.
              Did you even read the article???
              \_ Quoth me: "...since this is a very unusual election..."
                 Apparently I have read the article. -pp
                 \_ Your reading comprehension skills are poor then.
                    \_ Methinks your wishful thinking is showing.
        \_ Of course, just because it isn't on the editorial page doesn't mean
           that it doesn't read like an editorial.  I find little news in it.
           And look at the sources for the quotes:
           Simon Rosenberg, president of the New Democratic Network
           Mark Penn, a Democratic pollster
           Joe Lockhart, a senior Kerry adviser
           David R. Gergen, a veteran adviser of the Nixon, Ford, Reagan and
             Clinton White Houses.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:33396 Activity:nil
9/7     An oldie from Japan Today.  Asking random japanese people what
        they would do if they were foreigners.  Also a good page for
        disabusing people of the "All asians are hot" sterotype.
        http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=429&page=11
        \_ Not all Asians are hot.  Only Asian chicks are hot.
           \_ Well, the chicks on that page ain't too hot either.
2004/9/7 [Uncategorized] UID:33397 Activity:nil
9/7     Vijay Singh, the "other black man", kicks Tiger Woods' butt.
        \_ Isn't that an Indian name?
           \_ Native American.
              \_ No, I mean Asian Indian.
                 \_ Are there Cherokees in Asia?
                    \_ Singh is a very popular Asian Indian lastname.
           \_ He's from Fiji, of East Indian ethnic origin.
        \_ Does Singh imply Sikh?
2004/9/7 [Reference/Military] UID:33398 Activity:very high
9/7     http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1256-2004Sep6.html
        "... more than 20 elite Russian commandos were killed in the day-long
        battle that began Friday, many of them accidentally shot in the back by
        civilian vigilantes who rushed to the school to fight for their
        children. The previously undisclosed death toll ... surpasses any
        in the history of the famed Alpha and Vympel special forces units."
        \_ i read that.  i guess they weren't so elite.
           \_ I don't think it reflects on their elite-ness or the quality of
              their training when they take casualties from 'friendly forces'
              that weren't part of the unit (ie angry gun-toting civilians).
              \_ They probably weren't trained to exepect angry villagers to
                 come in behind them.  Imagine a siege of police around a
                 hostage situation, do you think *they* expect civilians to
                 start shooting into the whole mess?  Now whoever was in charge
                 of maintaining a perimeter is un-leet.
        \_ Or possibly they are making excuses for the unleetness of the
           troops and making shit up.  These are the same people who lied
           about the terrorist demands and about how many hostages there were.
           Russian media makes ours look downright responsible.
           \_ The leet CTs blamed the police for not keeping the civilians back
        \_ I read one article saying that the elite force wasn't prepared for
           action when the explosion broke out, and they didn't even get to put
           on standard gear like bullet-proof vests when they were forced to
           join the fight.  However, I read another article saying that the
           initial fighting only involved police and regular troops, and the
           elite force didn't join in until half an hour later which should
           have given them enough time.  I don't know which one to believe.
           \_ Bulletproof vests need ceramic plates to stop AK-47 bullets.
              It's possible they didn't bother putting any in the back, if
              there were space there.  Anyways, civilians shouldn't be shooting
              at any point.
              \_ Um.. by who's standard? NIJ ? .4 or .3?
                 \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletproof_vest
                    \_ This is dated.  Do more research, grasshopper.
                       \_ What is your point, exactly?  That there are
                          bulletproof vests without plates that stop AK-47
                          bullets?
2004/9/7-9 [Industry/Jobs] UID:33399 Activity:kinda low
9/7     Three job openings at Sun Microsystems for SAs and Network admins.
        http://www.sun.com/corp_emp/search.cgi?req=538227
        http://www.sun.com/corp_emp/search.cgi?req=538230
        http://www.sun.com/corp_emp/search.cgi?req=538242
        If you know anyone with kick-ass techie and social skills, who loves
        stress and constant learning and regular fire-drills, this is for them
        --samli
        \_ Fire drills?
        \_ Koan:  How can one be a great sysadmin and at the same time have
           social skills?
           \_ You pursuade your co-workers to do all your work and willingly
              let you take all the credits.
        \_ What exactly is a fire-drill in this context?  Does someone pull
           a cable at 3am on a Saturday to see how fast the team responds?
           \_ Not that bad. Worst would be 8am Monday. Lot of work can be
              done remotely of course, so it's not that bad. Usually it's
              a big-deal-about-nothing so takes you 15 minutes fix and
              make sure it doesn't happen again and then explain to mgmt.
              Patience, diplomacy and communication skills are required.
              Example: User reports: "system crashed, pointer does not
              move". Solution: replace batteries in wireless mouse.
2004/9/7-8 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:33400 Activity:kinda low
9/7     Atari to Reissue Scores of Old games
        http://csua.org/u/8yb (Yahoo! News)
        \_ What I can't figure about the flashback is, apparently it's
           just an Atari 7800 with no cartridge slot, and 20 built in
           games.  Is a cartridge slot really that freaking expensive?
           What if I have some 7800 or 2600 games I'd like to play on the
           beast?  WIth a cart slot, they could even release expansion
           carts.
        \_ A few months ago I saw an Atari game machine in a store which has
           about 10 old games.  The whole machine is just one old-style
           joystick (the black one with a red button).  There is no console.
           All the electronics are packed in the joystick.  Don't remember if
           there's a name for it.
           \_ Walmart or Target might have .  $19.99
2004/9/7 [ERROR, uid:33401, category id '18005#4.8325' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33401 Activity:nil
9/7     What does history suggest when the polls have the election
        tied on Sept 1 and again one week after the end of the
        Republican convention?
        http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm
2004/9/7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:33402 Activity:nil
9/7     Why is jwang censoring the motd?
        \_ What is he censoring?
        \_ He's bitter about being named after a typewriter?
           \_ wang >> typewriter
              \_ Okay, sorry, word processor.
                 \_ what i mean is wang >> wang-an
        \_ And again?
        \_ And again?!  jwang just doesn't stop!
           \_ SQUISH!!! SQUIIIIIISHH!!!! -- Baron Harkonnen
        \_ Has jwang no shame?
        \_ jwang, why do you hate America?
           \_ You mean, why does he hate the motd?
              \_ that much should be obvious.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33403 Activity:high
9/7     "It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we
        make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the
        danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will
        be devastating from the standpoint of the United States." -VP Cheney
        Vote for Dubya:  No danger or much reduced danger of devastating
                         terrorist attack.
        Vote for Kerry:  Danger of devastating terrorist attack.
        The choice is yours!
        \_ how DARE they field a candidate!
        \_ Hasn't that been the basis of their whole campaign from the start?
           No news here.
           \_ It's been hinted at, but it hasn't been put so succinctly and
              obviously until now by Cheney.
        \_ Who does al queda hate more: a bush-led america or a kerry-led
           america?
           \_ They hated a Clinton-led America and planned to assassinate him.
              Osama supports Nader.
           \_ We need an arab to attempt but fail to assasinate Kerry.
        \_ But not devastating from other standpoints. That's good to clarify.
           But I think you mis-summarized Cheney's contention:
           Vote Kerry (="wrong choice"): Danger of devastating (to US) hit.
           Vote Bush: Won't get hit.
           Vote for Bush if you want to live!
           \_ There, I modified op for you.
           \_ BTW, if you read the http://cnn.com article now, you'll see Edwards
              saying what you said, and a Cheney spokesperson saying "that's
              not what [Cheney] meant".
              \_ Ha ha! Ok, I read it. The spokeswoman says:
                 "Whoever is elected in November faces the prospect of another
                 terrorist attack. The question is whether or not we have the
                 right policies in place to best protect our country. That's
                 what the vice president said."  What utter BS.
        \_ I believe this also means Cheney is pretty confident there won't
           be a "devastating" attack before the election.  I agree with him.
           Maybe a couple "small" or "medium" ones though.
           \_ Would an attack hurt or help Bush? It would mean Bush didn't
              prevent it. But it would show the greatness of the danger,
              and the need for anti-terror Bush. Bush is the best at fighting
              terror, nevermind 9/11 and failure to catch bin laden. Hard
              to say which factor would win.
2004/9/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33404 Activity:very high
9/7     Kerry cosponsored bill banning gun he waves
        http://www.drudgereport.com/dncg.htm
        \_ a waste of a great gun :(
        \_ MacGyver wised up and became Colonel O'Neal
        \_ pistol grips on shotguns are way less accurate then
           regular grips, they should let the twinks keep them
           \_ it could help in close, urban situations where accuracy
              of one shot isn't the primary concern.
             \_ most experts agree, pistol grips should be removed
                cuz they suck in urban situations
               \_ how bout for full auto shotguns
        \_ TWO MILLION JOBS LOST! $9 BILLION "UNACCOUNTED FOR" IN IRAQ!
           A UNILATERAL WAR BASED ON COOKED INTELLIGENCE! SHUT THE FUCK
           UP YOU ASS! I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!111!! --aaron
           \_ Amen.  There's not really enough "stfu, u teh gay" in US
              politics right now; in addition to agreeing wholeheartedly
              with Mr. Smith, I welcome this move to introduce better form
              into the political debating process.  -John
              \_ You are cruel, John. -- ilyas
           \_ I would like to note at this point that I just gave my
              largest donation to date to the DCCC and DFA, and I now feel
              much better. Thank you for your concern! --aaron
              \_ lose one for the flipper!  Let me tell you my impression
                 \_ you really should stop posting this "quip" unless you're
                    trying to sound totally inane.
                 of Kerry.  I was watching him on a book interview on CSPAN.
                 He was asked what books he was reading or would
                 recommend.  He stammered on for 3-4 minutes and
                 effectively said nothing.  He stated one childrens book
                 he had read and something about the importance of the
                 Bible.  The rest of his response was nuanced evasive
                 nonsense about what types of books, how many... on and on.
                 He could of named 5 books in 30 seconds and been done with
                 it; instead he was afraid to define himeself. Someone
                 with this type of personality does not make an
                 effective executive, especially during national crises.
                 \_ Let me tell you my impression of GW Bush.  I was watching
                    him read _My Pet Goat_ for seven minutes after he learned
                    of the 2nd tower being attacked.  He knows how to delegate
                    authority -- someone else was taking care of it, so he
                    doesn't have to worry about it himself.
                    didn't have to worry about immediate action himself.
                 \_ That wouldn't define him. naming a few books with
                    no explanation?  I don't buy that about effective
                    exectutives. Bush wasn't a particularly effective
                    executive. (And I doubt he could give a fast and direct
                    answer to that question anyway). Bush had both houses of
                    Congress Republican. This thing about strong
                    leadership is some kind of folklore. Simple folks love
                    to think that down home backwoods wisdom always beats
                    fancy book learnin'. If something can't be stated in
                    a simple sentence they don't want to hear it. The
                    real world isn't black and white and involves nuanced
                    decision-making. People base the whole image of Bush
                    on "he invaded Iraq => strong!" That decision had
                    many consequences and many of us think it was wrong
                    at that time, and inadequately planned. His economic
                    policy is sustained by record-busting deficit spending.
                    Bush's only other executive experience was the company
                    he ran into the ground. NCLB act a funding disaster,
                    and a bizarre thing in principle from a traditional
                    conservative standpoint (taxing billions from the
                    states, then handing it back to them on a restricted
                    and problematic basis). Industry-coddling energy,
                    environmental, and medicare policies.
                http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/top10_lies
                http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/top10_flipflops
                http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/specialinterests
                     You guys keep saying "Kerry is nothing but not Bush".
                     The reason this is somewhat true is that's pretty
                     much what we want. Bush on the other hand is nothing
                     but "invade the middle east".
                    \_ This is bigotry.  You are speaking of people you
                       have no familiarity with.  You think you are
                       smarter than everyone else, and thus, entitled
                       to tell them how they should live and what they
                       should believe.  Inside every leftist is a
                       tyrant.  So are so vain you can't even see
                       yourself for what you are.
                       \_ You're saying I have no familiarity with "simple
                          people"? I can't even respond to this because
                          you don't even make an argument here. You're
                          simply lashing out with incoherent bile. My
                          point with that was to criticize the idea, which
                          certainly exists, that intelligence and nuanced
                          thinking is unneeded and even undesirable in leaders.
                          I see this notion in the popular mythology. You
                          should look up what bigotry means. And inside
                          every rightist is a coke-sniffing pedophile.
                          \_ Your use of the work "simple people" is
                             telling.
                             \_ what does it tell?

                                \_ It's usually considered derogatory and
                                   belittling when you call someone "simple".
                                   \_ It's an abstract group of people. It
                                      should only offend people who consider
                                      themselves simple, but then they wouldn't
                                      think it's derogatory. Or maybe they hold
                                      the "dumb is wise" view, in which case I
                                      I heartily belittle them.
                    \_ For your criticism to be relevant it is incumbent
                       on you, or anyone, to propose a cogent alternative
                       foreign policy paradigm.  No such policy was ever
                       proposed, all you and left could offer was
                       appeasement.
                       \_ appeasement of what?  Saddam did not have WMDs and
                          was not attacking anyone.  Letting countries run
                          their own business is not "appeasement."  -tom
                       \_ False. Alternative paradigms were loudly proposed.
                          You can even look it up and read about it, if you
                          choose. I can't objectively prove such alternatives
                          could be as cogent as "invade". It would be pointless
                          to go into that whole argument right now, I think we
                          both know what's been said.
                          \_ Where?  What? By who? Here is concise
                             explanation of that which you speak:  appeasement,
                             cede sovreignty to the UN.
                             cede sovreignty to the UN.  You want
                             "nuance" terrorists, its rediculous.
                             \_ false again. a U.N. vote != ceding sovereignty.
                                appeasement applies to giving in under threat.
                                and the saddam <=> terrorism relevance is
                                primarily a concoction.
                     \_ So I can sum up your position as: you want
                        entitlements from the government?  You believe you
                        have a ordained right to a job, free health care
                        and other free gov't services?  Right?
                        \_ No, you can't, because I didn't say that. I'm not
                           a libertarian though, so basically the gist of
                           that is true for most people. Here's another case
                           where a little "nuance" might let you acknowledge
                           that there are more possibilities than pure
                           libertarian versus full-on communism. I don't know
                           anybody talking about "right to a job" and you use
                           that as a straw man because you have no argument.
           \_ The other 50% of the country would like to keep the country as it
              is and away from the likes of you. C'est la vie.
        \_ There is no pistol grip on that shotgun. You are no gun owner or
           you would know that.
           \_ The deal is that the language of the bill defines "pistol
              grip" broadly:  "... grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other
              characteristic that can function as a grip"
              \_ That shotgun still does not have a pistol grip, even
                 by that definition.
                 \_ According to that bill, this counts as a pistol grip.
                    http://www.gunslocal.com/gunimages/1385.jpg
                    This is the one he was presented with:
                  http://www.berettaweb.com/semi%20auto%20shotgun/A300.htm
                 \_ (a) Yes, it's not 'really' a pistol grip
                    (b) As guy above says, the language of the bill was stupid
                        enough where yes, it was considered a pistol grip.
                    (c) I have yet to hear an effective argument from the
                        gun control crowd about how these regulations involving
                        pistol grips and 'assault-looking' weapons do anything
                        other than piss off gun owners.  It's the stupidest
                        thing I ever heard.  If you want to ban automatics, I
                        could see the argument for that (I don't agree, but I
                        understand it).  If you want to ban scary looking
                        weapons you are an idiot or a fretting soccer mommy.
                          -- ilyas
                        \_ Obviously somebody thought pistol-gripped semi-
                           automatic shotguns were not meant to hunt game,
                           but whose sole purpose was to kill people.
                           Note that the bill is for a renewal of an assault
                           weapons ban on AK-47s, AR-15s, and military sniper
                           rifles, and is not only for aforementioned shotguns,
                           as some might infer.
                           \_ Ok, I don't understand that.  Why are
                              pistol-gripped things bad for hunting game?
                              Is this because Elmer Fudd doesn't use a pistol
                              grip?  Take a handgun.  Very few people hunt with
                              handguns, they are generally for 'killing people'
                              (and going to the range, but no one seems to
                              bring that up).
                              So what?  Why is this bannable?  Hunting rifles
                              kill people just as well.  I guess I don't see the
                              thought process at all.  Also, what's a
                              'military sniper rifle' and how is it different
                              from a hunting rifle with a scope? -- ilyas
                              \_ Let me summarize the "answer" for you.
                                 For many liberals, it's "How many guns
                                 can I outlaw?".  For many conservatives, it's
                                 "How many guns can I leave legal?"
                                 There's your answer.
                                 BTW, a Dragunov is one of the named illegal
                                 sniper rifles, and is obviously military-
                                 grade; a hunting rifle with a scope is a
                                 hunting rifle with a scope (with less
                                 penetrating rounds, less accuracy when you
                                 take your run of the mill hunting rifle, and
                                 not necessarily semi-automatic or automatic).
                                 Pistols are for "killing people", but are
                                 strongly associated with self-defense, unlike
                                 assault rifles.  Semi-auto shotguns with
                                 pistol grip make you think of semi-auto
                                 shotguns used by police, except they use them
                                 to take out bad guys.
                                 \_ I am a liberal, and I am anti-gun control.
                                    I believe that this is more consistent
                                    with the pinciples of liberalism than
                                    being pro-gun control.  Personally,
                                    I find hunting to be excruciatingly dull
                                    and I suck at target shooting and live in
                                    a safe area, so I have no guns, but
                                    I support the rights of others to have
                                    whatever guns they want.
                                 \_ This is where I point out I know more about
                                    guns than you.  A run of the mill remington
                                    700 with a 'decent' scope will have:
                                    (a) more penetration than the dragunov
                                        (308 is a bigger round)
                                    (b) larger effective range (900 yards vs
                                        400 yards)
                                    (c) better accuracy than the dragunov
                                        (dragunov is semiauto, and not that
                                        well made, the remington uses the nice
                                        mauser bolt-action).
                                    By any reasonable standard, a remington 700
                                    is a deadlier rifle than the dragunov, yet
                                    the dragunovs are the ones that are outlawed
                                    because of the 'scary grips.'  That things
                                    are 'associated with' or 'make you think
                                    of something' is a dumb (and scary)
                                    argument for outlawing anything.  I realize
                                    you may not necessarily hold the position
                                    you are presenting -- I am
                                    attacking it, not you.  I was hoping for
                                    a defense of 'how many guns can I outlaw?'
                                      -- ilyas
                                    \_ semi-auto vs. bolt action, clip ammo.
                                       I dunno, I think it's reasonable to
                                       think the Dragunov can be deadlier vs.
                                       multiple targets. I don't know too much
                                       about guns though... are pistol grips
                                       so useless? Why then are they on all the
                                       military rifles? --otherperson
                                       \_ Against multiple people you use a
                                          sprayer, not a frigging sniper rifle.
                                          Sniper rifle = single kills.  Pistol
                                          grips are on military rifles because
                                          they are comfy.  Of course comfy
                                          grips make it easier to 'kill people.'
                                          *sigh* -- ilyas
                                          \_ Well, actually, no.  You don't use
                                             a  sprayer, you practice...you
                                             know...accuracy?  So you hit what
                                             you shoot at when you pull the
                                             trigger?  1-3 seconds of full
                                             auto on most assault rifles is
                                             really only useful for
                                             suppression and making lots of
                                             noise.
                                          \_ I have to admit that when I'm
                                             killing people, I look for as
                                             much comfort as possible.
                                             That's why I use a
                                             Dragunov<tm>. -geordan
                           \_ also maybe it makes it easier to identify the
                              real assault weapons, if you ban lookalikes,
                              that might possibly be modified?
2004/9/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:33405 Activity:moderate
9/7     Does anyone know where I can download that Old Navy commercial
        with that girl yelling out "History, I love history. First
        something happens, then something else happens. So sequential!
        Thank you, first guy, for writing things down. Let's study!"
        \_ why?  Do you like the commercial?
        \_ The ad is so stupid.  But then maybe that's the whole point.
        \_ Try http://www.adcritic.com
        \_ I think the girl wasn't wearing a bra.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33406 Activity:nil
9/7     Britons want Kerry, not Bush:
        http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040908/325/f247v.html
        Insert ob red-coat remarks below.
2004/9/7-8 [Recreation/Media] UID:33407 Activity:high
9/7     I don't get it, why does CBS get sued and fined 550k while Justin
        Timberlake and Janet Jackson doesn't get anything? Do you sue the
        gun manufacturer for murder committed?
        \_ Move to a place where fat, stupid hick religious shits don't get
           all huffy about a bit of T&A shown on billboards or broadcast TV,
           and when they do, nobody takes them seriously.  Sheesh.  -John
        \_ We must make an example of these breasts.
           \_ Yes, so fine Justin/Jackson for it.
              \_ No.  You don't understand.  You're expecting logic from people
                 that are going apeshit about a breast?
        \_ CBS has more money than JT or JJ.
           \_ That's not the (*&(* point.
              \_ But it's why CBS is getting sued.
           \_ I don't have much money, does that mean I will get away with
              rape?
              \_ showing breasts on network TV is not a criminal offense; it's
                 a violation of the network's FCC license.  -tom
                 \_ I want to know why there were nothing done to the
                    people who actually performed this. I think fine
                    JT is perfectly reasonable and would do more to
                    prevent this sort of thing than fining CBS. If you
                    perform live in front of national audiences, there
                    should be consequences if you decide to show your
                    breast or penis.
                    \_ if it's in your contract, I'm sure there are
                       consequences.  But that's a problem for the network,
                       not for the FCC.  -tom
              \_ Criminal and civil are different. But yes, it's why Kobe
                 Bryant gets sued in civil court and Joe Rapevan does not.
                 c.f. "deep pockets"
                 \_ Uhm, no. You obviously know nothing about law. -williamc
        \_ Is it because there are no laws against public display of
           breast? So what JT/JJ did was perfectly 'legal'? so the
           only illegal thing was CBS aired it, and they get fined? If
           that's the case, it is really fucked up.
           \_ The license that CBS has which allows it to broadcast is a
              legally binding contract.  They violated that contract when they
              showed nudity.  It's not JJ/JT fault that CBS violated its
              contract, but it IS kind of stupid that the FCC et al are going
              so far out of their way to make an example of CBS.
           \- i dont think it is exactly a case of civil/criminal ...
              it is more like respondent superior. if you are using a
              gun and the gun explodes due to a mfgr defect, you dont
              go after the employee responsiblefor the defect. CBS probably
              would not have been fined for a steaker. --psb
              would not have been fined for a streaker. --psb
              \_ This makes absolutely no sense.  Perhaps you could edit it?
                 \- look up "respondent superior". if you work for UPS
                    and you drive into somebody's car, UPS is liable, not you.
                    if some kind of negligence contributed to the accident
                    well then things get more complicated but it would have
                    to be pretty dramatic for UPS to get out of any liability.
                    scenarios could include: you were drunk on the job, you
                    were talking on the cell phone on company business, you
                    were talking on your private cell phone on personal
                    matters, you had picked up a hitchhiker and was talking
                    to that person/getting a blowjob from that person, had been
                    carjacked by that person. so perhaps UPS can fire you,
                    but it is probably an uphill battle for them to avoid any
                    $ liability as long as this happened in the course of
                    the job. i dont know if you can get "crazy fcc decision
                    insurance". but that's one way companies deal with stuff
                    like this ... or they self insure. --psb
2004/9/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:33408 Activity:high
9/7     This is incredibly stupid but I was literally ROFL:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2698507.stm
        \_ you're a moron.
           \_ Come on... their name is Doody and they love faggots.
              Laugh a little.
           \_ For hevean's sake.  It's kinda funny, don't be a jerk.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33409 Activity:nil
9/7     Analysis:  Kerry Comments in August Have Him Playing into GOP Hands
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3587-2004Sep7.html
        "You are paying these guys a lot of damn money. If Kerry is screwing
        up, where is our Karl Rove?"
2017/11/17 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/17   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:07 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>