Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:19 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2004/2/19 [Uncategorized] UID:12303 Activity:nil
2/18    Has m$ removed their leaked sources?  They seem hard to locate.
        \_ they threatened to sue a few people.
           \_ so now where/how can I look at them?
              \_ look harder.  what do you want them for?
2004/2/19 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:12304 Activity:nil
2/18    If you want to defend President Bush, post your defense on MOTD
        instead of simply censor it.
        Scientists Accuse White House of Distortion:
        http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=1683040
        \_ Further evidence why science should not be politicized.
           The piece is partisan fluff by journalists feeding
           at the public trough; zero facts just accusatory
           demagoguery literally about saving the children.
           So I went to the full report:
           Global Warming -
           http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/trc.html
           http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1010124/posts
           Air Pollution - no comment because they don't provide
                           enough evidence.  Yes obviously lead
                           and mercury are bad but exactly how
                           much money is society willing to spend
                           to reduce them to parts per trillion
                           levels.  And guess what, lead and mercury
                           are naturally occurring! Are we going
                           to scrub the environment clean of these
                           elemements??
           Abstinence / AIDS - AIDS is transmitted by almost
                               entirely by promiscous homosexuals
                               engaging literally in tens or 100's of
                               anonymous unprotected sex acts a
                               year.  Why should I be expected to
                               pay for someone's reckless acts of
                               irresponsibility?
                               All Bush mandated was that the same
                               amount be spent on abstinence
                               programs as is spent giving free
                               birth control pills to HS students
                               without their parents consent.
                                \_ Are you really this stupid?
                                   Did you not pay attention in sex ed
                                   during high school?  You just massively
                                   discredited yourself.  I suppose all the
                                   "fags" forced all the heterosexuals with
                                   AIDS to engage in gay orgies?  -John
                                   \_ The percentage of straight victims is
                                      near zero compared to the numbers for gay
                                      males, drug addicts, and men visiting
                                      prostitutes.  Once you take the spouses
                                      of bi-sexual men, drug addicts and
                                      'johns' out of the numbers, you don't
                                      have too many non-gay victims in the US
                                      population.  John, you're the one who has
                                      massively discredited themself with your
                                      hot button pushing ranting and hysteria.
                                      Calm down, stop knee jerking, smoke a
                                      joint and find some facts.
                                        \_ Has it ever occurred to you that
                                           "the gay community", due to its
                                           historically higher exposure, has
                                           a much higher awareness and
                                           reporting rate for AIDS?  Kill all
                                           fags.  -John
           Endangered species act - tell that to those people in
                                    Klamath falls and those whose
                                    livelihood depends on development
                                    of natural resources.  Massive
                                    ongoing cases of scientific
                                    fraud inside the EPA and Forest
                                    Service
                                    \_ Ah, you rail against unsubstantiated
                                       claims, and your evidence is utterly
                                       impeccable.  Q.f. 'Other Peoples'
                                       Money", Danny De Vito's diatribe about
                                       buggy whip manufacturers.  -John
                                       \_ Say what?  Pass that joint over here!
                                          Or at least try again.
                                          \_ I can't, I'm too busy
                                             hysterically ranting against
                                             freeper idiots.  -John
           Aluminum tubes - I stopped here because this reveals the
                            entire agenda of the 'paper'.  When Islamic
                            radicals detonate a nuclear weapon
                            on US soil I hope all those who propose
                            a policy of capitulation are in the
                            blast radius.
                                \_ We should also ban export of screwdrivers
                                   because they can be used to build n00ks.
                                   \_ Standard red herring.  This is just like
                                      saying we shouldn't lock our front doors
                                      at night because a burglar can always
                                      break a window.  Do you use "password" as
                                      your password because hey they can always
                                      break in using an ssh bug anyway?
2004/2/19 [Computer/SW/Languages] UID:12305 Activity:nil
2/18    how come ls on soda does not look at LS_COLORS var?
        I did eval `dircolors -c file` but the darn thing is not
        taking effect when I do ls -G.
        \_ works fine for me.  maybe your term environment variable is not
           set properly?
        \_ Everything is correctly green on black.  I don't understand your
           problem or why someone keeps deleting my response.  Was green on
           black too political for someone?  Would it be better if my screen
           was black on green?  Am I oppressing black people by having green
           on top?
2004/2/19 [Reference/Religion] UID:12306 Activity:nil
2/18    http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/morality_play.htm
        My score was 51%, meaning I am a moral relativist
        compared to most people. But I already knew that.
        \_ 84%. -- ilyas
           \_ Ah, the truth comes out, Ilya!  Funny, I NEVER would have guessed
              you would have scored so HIGH.  No, you?  NAHHHH.  I got %41 by
              the way, which I guess just proves once again how much of a
              Heathen I am.  --lye
              \_ You are not a heathen, your beliefs are just so much more ...
                 flaccid. -- ilyas
                 \_ Better than my beliefs being rigid.  Natch!  --lye
        \_ 75% -- I'm probably similar to those guys below but I think there
           are some cases of "not helping" people that would be wrong. I think
           the ones where you fail to notify authorities of crimes has some
           element of wrongness. You'd be allowing others to maybe come to
           harm. Ditto the one where you notice a machine will hurt someone.
           Then I allow for the case where if someone was in severe need and
           you could help at almost no effort, then you'd be an asshole not
           to. That's not to say that most street people are really in severe
           need, or that my "little cost" would actually help them. But if
           someone was lying there bleeding and I had a cell phone I think it
           would be wrong not to call the police or something. I guess it's
           hard to separate the moral obligation from the desire. But I look at
           the moral code as what I'd expect from others in my community. So
           I think it's ok to define some minimal level of helping that one
           is obligated to do. (There's also the biblical example where the
           Moses or someone said not to harm non-Jews, but if one was like
           stuck in a well, Jews shouldn't lower a rope (etc.). To me that's
           immoral. Also, seeing someone drop a wallet, I think it's immoral
           to just take it with no effort to return it. Actually though, the
           "helping others" aspect is not what that score measures, but rather
           the degree to which you (don't) vary your principles according to
           various factors such as relatedness.
           \_ never heard of this not lowering rope for non-jew thing.  are
              you sure it's a biblical example.  in fact it's directly
              opposite to what jesus teaches in the parable of the good
              samaritan.
        \_ 92%.  i drew a strong distinction between what i would do and and
           what i am morally obligated to do.
           \_ Can you make sure the answer review at the bottom matches
              what you chose?  92% is the score you get when you close
              your browser, and visit the last .cgi Success page directly.
              The script in this case determines all your answers were the
              first choice for each question.
              \_ i did review the answers, and they were logged correctly.
                 i take moral obligations seriously, and i try to be
                 consistent in their application.  ultimately, i do not
                 believe i have a moral obligation to help others.  if i
                 do help, i do because i wish to and not because i have to.
                 \_ Same theme for me.  Not sure why there is a discrepancy
                    between our scores.  I think maybe they vary the questions
                    a little between each run.  -- ilyas
                    \_ to be honest, i don't even know why i was docked
                       the 8%.  i thought i was quite perfectly consistent.
              \_ obtw, i did not choose the first alternative for all my
                 answers.  so it is quite possible to answer 'no' quite
                 often and still get a 92%.
        \_ 55%, though the interesting thing I found was that I am apparently
           a traitor to my gender. -- ulysses
        \_ 69%
           \_ That means you're orally relative.
                   \- that's pretty funny. not as good as "moaning
                      becomes elektra" but pretty funny. 46% btw. --psb
        \_ The questions are stupid.  As christians, we are obliged to
           help those in need.  However, we also need to know our abilities
           and where they are most useful and most in need, and allocate
           our resources accordingly.  We sometimes are also obliged to
           stop evil things from continuing.  The above two principles
           should be enough for all those silly questions.
           \_ Here is what bothers me about Christians.  Given their belief
              system, unless you go off like the hardcore medieval saints
              like St. Francis, you are basically a hypocrite.  I wouldn't
              be able to live with myself as a Christian, I would either
              rethink my beliefs or give away all possessions and go help
              lepers somewhere.  If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't really
              call myself a Christian.  -- ilyas
              \_ You don't need to go back to medieval times, there are
                 many doing it this very day and age.  However, to answer
                 your question, yes, Christians should not live extra-
                 vagantly.  However, helping those in need is an ongoing
                 life-long thing.  Do make sure you can take care of the
                 needs of your wife and kids, and that they are not
                 starving or dropping out of school or becoming drug
                 addicts.  Otherwise, you would need others to take care
                 of you instead of you taking care of others.  That would
                 not do anyone good.  However, yes, Christians should
                 always place the Lord above worldly possessions.  If one
                 day the Lord says to give away all your possesions to
                 the poor and follow the Lord, one should be ready to do
                 it.  I am not saying it's easy, and many Christians will
                 not be able to do it, but it is what one should strive
                 for.
                 \_ I don't have the will to be a Christian.  I would rather
                    be a good agnostic than a bad Christian.  -- ilyas
                    \_ That's your choice.  But even for Christians it's
                       not through the power of will, but through
                       salvation and becoming one with Christ.  It should
                       be full of joy!
                       \_ God won't kill your dragons for you.  -- ilyas
                          \_ Yes he does.  Being a good agnostic, on
                             the other hand, is a difficult job.
                             \_ I think we have some fundamental differences
                                on the nature of God.  As the old russian
                                seminary school joke goes "even God cannot
                                beat an ace with a deuce."  Similarly,
                                God can't beat a dunce into an ace. -- ilyas
                                \_ no, God cannot beat an ace with
                                   deuce, but he keeps getting aces last time
                                   I tried playing poker with him.  and yes,
                                   he unceasingly beat dunces into aces too,
                                   through christ.
2004/2/19-24 [Industry/Jobs] UID:12307 Activity:nil
2/18    We're looking to hire a couple software engineers.
        Downtown San Jose.  Please see /csua/pub/jobs/GlobalVR
2004/2/19 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12308 Activity:nil
2/18    why does the press keep dropping references to Kerry as a
        "Brahmin"?  yes i know it's a caste in India. Do they
        expect everyone to know this?  Interesting.
        \_ He's a Brahmin? WOW.
           \_ Maybe they just mean Brahmin in the fallout sense of
              the word (i.e. a twoheaded mutant cow).
              \_ And Bush is Chuck Dunton...
        \_ UrlP
        \_ Presumably they are not refering to that Brahmin. Rather the
           "Boston Brahmins".
           \_ What is a "Boston Brahmin"?
                \_ A "Brahmin" is member of a hereditary upper class in
                       \- class != caste --bengali brahmin
                   India.  A "Boston Brahmin" is a member of a hereditary
                        \- India != Hindu --indian hindu
                   upperclass in Boston.  There is no doubt that they meant
                   Boston Brahmin.
                \_ is that a common expression on the east coast?
                   \_ among bostonians i know, yes.
                   \_ Among people who are well-informed, yes.
        \_ Not a Brahmin. You mean Bruin.
        \_ They're just saying he's the typical upper crust elitist east coast
           liberal.  Don't let it bother you.  He's a man of the people.
2004/2/19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12309 Activity:nil
2/18    Anyone interested in seeing what Max Boot is writing these days?
    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-boot19feb19,1,6229710.column
        \_ Not unless it is an apology for lying to America about the
           threat Iraq posed.
2004/2/19 [Computer/Domains] UID:12310 Activity:nil
2/19    What's the current best place to register a domain with or w/o hosting?
2004/2/19 [Reference/Tax] UID:12311 Activity:moderate
2/19    So much for benefits of e-commerce:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/09/pf/taxes/nys_sales_tax/index.htm?cnn=yes
        \_ the state gov'ts are desperate, but this is not yet enforced.
           If it is, there will be massive tax revolts.
           \_ Why?  Why should an online business not pay taxes?  It'd better
              if they simply started collecting taxes correctly, but still...
2004/2/19 [Uncategorized] UID:12312 Activity:high
2/19    So I schedule an appointment on DMV so that I don't have to wait
        in line and the earliest appontment date, depending on location
        I choose on the website, is 2-3 weeks from today. What the hell?
        \_ well gee, maybe everyone else had the same idea
        \_ my boss does this.   it may be a while before your appointment,
           but he says that once you get there, you don't have to wait in
           any lines.  it saves on the frustrating waiting parts, not on
           the fact that you have to wait somewhere.  -sax
                \_ so is it more frustrating waiting for 2 weeks to get
                   a quick appointment or waiting for 1 hour in line?
                   The point is, it's frustrating both ways.
                   \_ only 1 hour?  Damn, which DMV has that short a line?
                      \- if you get to the DMV 30min before they open,
                         you might get out of there an hour after they open.
                         if you have an appt, you may only have to wait 15
                         min in the short line. --psb
2004/2/19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12313 Activity:high
2/19    Re the advanced centrifuge equipment found in Iran -- FINALLY it
        looks like the Bush administration is using something hard.
        \_ think iran is next in the invasion queue?
           \_ Do you think is the current instability there is a coincidence?
           \_ Do you think the current instability there is a coincidence?
           \_ No.  While Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Dubya were busy taking out
              Saddam (the guy who tried to assassinate Bush Sr.), someone
              competent was taking care of Iran.  The IAEA is inspecting,
              they already found serious equipment, and if the IAEA is
              kicked out, that's something real the UN and the US can work
              together on.  You also need to think about how this is
              different from the WMD inspectors getting kicked out of Iraq.
              \_ Um, it was after the invation of Iraq that Iran allowed the
                 IAEA in.
                 \_ so after we invade Iraq over made up WMD's, Libya offically
                    abandons its WMD program, and Iran starts letting
                    inspectors in.  Suddenly the costs of the Iraq invasion
                    are starting to look worth it after all...
                    \_ Sure, if the Bush administration thinks so, maybe
                       you'll see ads which claim this.  Maybe Bush Jr. will
                       bring this up in a debate! <orgasm>
2004/2/19 [Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:12314 Activity:low
2/18    [ don't advertise shit here. especially with your attitude. ]
        \_ in case anyone's curious, the ad was for some shitty dotcom
           plane fare site, with prices that can be beat elsewhere in
           much less annoying ways, and the censored OP told everyone
           to fuck off.  You're not missing anything.  the op works for a
           doomed, shitty company, and decided to use the motd as free
           advertising.
           \_ hahaha, good job.  But do post the site name so we know to
              avoid it, or boycott it.
              \_ I didn't delete it, and I don't remember the url.  You'll
                 know to avoid it if you see it.
2004/2/19 [Uncategorized] UID:12315 Activity:low
2/18    normandy massage still open for business!:
        http://www.myredbook.net/dcforum2/DCForumID19/7622.html#1
        Hi, my name is Nikki known from the infoumous gypsy on Telegrapgh. I
        am coming back to the bay area slowly and was wondering if you or
        anyone for that matter might know of a place that would be good
        for me to possibly work at . Most places are asian and it is hard to
        find a place with a "line up" of veriaty ladies.
        Besides working independently any suggestions on inside places?
        I don't know about the one down the street from Normandy's.
        Actualy I thought that they were closed down not to long after the
        gypsy was closed. Mail me personaly if you can and if you are
        leary then I can give more details of who I am so you'll know that I
        did in fact work at the gypsy.
        \_ If this wasn't scary enough on its own, the only person I know
           that was a regular customer of The Gypsy was a man known in the
           co-ops as "Enforcer."  If you know who I'm talking about, I'm sure
           you're shuddering right about now.  Otherwise, its best you don't
           know.
2004/2/19 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12316 Activity:high
2/18    just to remind you: the tubes found in Iraq could not have been
        used as centrifuges.  Nuclear (not "nukuler") experts all agree.
        Disagree at your own peril, neocon.  Your lies are being exposed.
        \_ This is very old news. I read about this at least two months
            ago. Nobody cares.
        \_  1) URL?  2) There are no 'neocons' on the motd  3) The first
            president to say "nukular" was Jimmy Carter, also a southerner,
            so get over it or stop showing off your ignorance and youth.
            4) tubes? frankly, who gives a shit?  join the rest of us in today.
            5) troll.  6) yawn.
            \_ Re: 3: URL?  Carter was an officer on a nuclear sub and had a
                BS from the US Naval Academy... perhaps you're thinking of his
                brother?
                \_ Fuck you and your url's. Eveyone who doesn't live in
                   a box and communicate with the outside world through
                   usenet, slashdot and the motd knows this; and I actually
                   *like* Carter.
                   \_ Uh huh.  And it couldn't just be another urban legend that
                   \_ Uh huh.  And it couldn't be another urban legend that
                      you've never questioned?  Perhaps only cromulent people
                      who read freerepublic know this as gospel truth?
                      \_ I don't read freerepublic.  Since it's a slow day
                         at work, I'll choose to humor your dumb ass:
                         http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0140.html
                         From American Heritage:
                         "You may want to avoid this pronunciation despite the
                          fact that it has been used in the recent past by some
                          prominent speakers including Presidents Eisenhower
                          and Carter."
                          \_ Thanks.
                          \_ "Nuclear" is just a hard word to say.  It seems
                             to break all the usual rules of English
                             pronunciation - of course, the confounding part
                             about English for non-speakers is just how many
                             words break those rules.
                      \_ I'm sorry, but that's an uncromulent use of the word
                         cromulent.
                       http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cromulent
            \_ If you really have to ask for a URL for #1: -!op
               http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml
               Anyways, you're late.  The Bush line is now "it was the CIA's
               fault since we all believed he had them, and anyway, he had
               WMD before and used them to kill tens of thousands, was
               thumbing his nose at the world, and we were going to make
               an example out of him to back up resolutions that the UN
               would not".
2004/2/19-20 [Reference/Celebration] UID:12322 Activity:nil 66%like:23408
2/19    Happy birthday lila!
2004/2/19-6/2 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:12323 Activity:very high
6/2     I'm no liberal, but non-politically speaking, what are the
        most efficient and most cost effective alternative fuel sources?
        \_ Solar, using as-yet-uninvented technology unrelated to present
           technology.  Solar power with close to zero cost that can be
           incorporated into pavement would give us the 40 TW we'll need.
           The most cost-effective way to spend money on energy is to
           put money towards basic research in the physical sciences
           that will lead to this(or some equivalent) breakthrough.
           \_ Solar is a crock.  There's a tremendous amount of incredibly
              toxic sludge produced as a byproduct of creating solar cells.
              I wish you pro-solar-the-sun-is-free freaks would pick up a book
              and learn what you're trying to dump in the rivers before you
              push more of that shit into the water table.
              \_ Read my post again, jackoff.  when I say "as-yet-uninvented
                 technology"  I'm not talking about better pn junctions.
                 That's the point.
        \_ Hmm, I sense a big argument coming, but if you want to talk about
           energy _sources_ rather than energy _carriers_ (like hydrogen),
           I'd go with biodiesel.  I'm sure someone will chime in here with
           Uranium, but of course Uranium has a rather short Hubbert's peak.
           \_ Isn't this like methanol where the energy costs to harvest
              the ingredients to produce a single ounce of biodiesel is
              actually greater than the amount of energy it yields?
              \_ That's a loss in any scenario that doesn't involve mining
                 an pre-existing energy source. The point is that you
                 are converting carbon dioxide and sunlight (and some other
                 stuff) into a usable fuel here and now rather than flooding
                 millenia-worth of reduced carbon into the atmosphere over
                 a few decades, as is currently the case. It's a loop rather
                 than shunt.
                 \_ There's a difference between a loss and being inefficient.
                    For example, take the case of fossil fuel. Suppose you
                    wanted to produce 1 gallon of gasoline. You need the
                    energy to explore, drill, transport, refine, transport,
                    and when you finally put it in your car, it doesn't
                    convert all the energy into useful energy. But the point
                    is that the amount of energy you spend to do everything
                    I mentioned above is still less than the amount of
                    energy yielded by 1 gallon of gasoline. It's inefficient
                    but it's not a net loss. The point is that in a closed
                    system, your fuel source needs to be self-sustaining.
                    The amount of energy required to operate the oil
                    industry is less than the amount of energy it produces.
                    You can use the energy produced by oil to run the oil
                    industry (until we run out).
              actually greater than the amount of energy it yeilds?
                    \_ We are actually agreeing with each other but
                       approaching from different sides so I'll just stop
                       here.
           \_ do you have a quick summary of biodiesel?  Yes, I could
              obGoogle, but I want to hear it in your words.
              \_ http://www.afdc.doe.gov/altfuel/biodiesel.html
                 \_ interesting.  it sounds like it still needs to be mixed
                    with diesel fuel.  Doesn't diesel fuel have
                    an environmental impact?
                    \_ In fact, engines can be modified or redesigned to
                       support neat (100%) biodiesel, providing a 75%
                       reduction in CO2 emission over regular diesel.
                       Also, diesel engines are usually twice as fuel
                       efficent as their gasoline equivalent in miles per
                       gallon - though with a different performance envelope
                       of course.  Interestingly, diesel is much more
                       accepted as a fuel in Europe where its increased
                       efficiency is very desirable, and almost all European
                       car companies sell diesel equipped versions of their
                       entire line (BMW and MBZ in particular).  Why these
                       cars are not offered in America is beyond me.
                        \_ There are a lot of diesels here;  however, even
                           buses and trucks running on "green" diesel, and
                           newer CRDs fucking _reek_.  Try driving behind
                           one some time and see what I mean.  I have no idea
                           exactly what they're cranking out, but nothing that
                           smells so shitty can possibly be kosher.  One thing
                           you're seeing more often is soot particle-burning
                           cars (although most manufacturers aren't too keen
                           on manufacturing them, for cost reason I guess)
                           which fry a lot of the unburned shit that every
                           diesel (or gasoline) engine emits.  They may be
                           be a bit better, but they also stink.  What's
                           really interesting is that apparently a lot of
                           older Mercedes diesels (like the 300) will run
                           on heating oil or even vegetable cooking oil. -John
                           \_ But you don't want to do that (run on oil) unless
                              you are willing to spend a lot of time cleaning
                              and otherwise taking care of the engine.
                              Incidentally, most diesel emissions do smell
                              worse than gas emissions, but are actually less
                              harmful overall.  -- ilyas
                                \_ Remember that not all environmental
                                   impact is measurable in terms of particles
                                   emitted.  Noise and smell are regrettable
                                   parts of traffic for people living by
                                   large roads.  As for the Mercs I am
                                   talking about--there's a reason you see
                                   almost none of them on Western European
                                   streets--most of them were sold to North
                                   Africa and Eastern Europe, as they're near
                                   impossible to break, will run on nearly
                       cars are not offered in America is beyond me.
                       cars are not offered in America is beyond me.
                                   anything combustible, and require almost
                                   no engine maintenance beyond adding oil.
                                   For more complex engines, yes, you are
                                   absolutely correct.  -John
                        \_ Pollution. Seen the Colosseum lately?
                        \_ biodiese allows for the possibility of a zero
                          CO_2 emmisions system, since the CO_2 you
                          produce is balanced by the CO_2 you absorb
                          when growing the fuel.  That's the point.
                          \_ But only if the fuel source (corn, or what
                             have you) is not grown using petroleum based
                             fertilizer.  Whether or not there is an organic
                             fertilizer solution that produces the same
                             yield, I don't know yet.
                             \_ http://www.afdc.doe.gov/p_single_faq.cgi?13
                                yield information.
                                \_ Very cool, but that doesn't answer the
                             yield, I don't know yet.
                                   question about petroleum-based fertilizer.
                                   Given that most soybeans are grown by
                                   gigantic corporations like ConAgra, I'm
                                   betting that they use whatever fertilizer
                                   gives the highest yield, regardless of its
                                   source.
                \_ Is there any research on how much fuel biodiesel costs
                   to produce?
                    \_ It is pretty cheap to produce if using recycled cooking
                        oil, but that is hardly scalable.  For straight from
                        soy you can take the fact from the above link (1.4
                        gallons per bushel of soy) and the costs of a bushel
                        of soy from here:
        http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/articles/baumel/BaumelDec00.htm
                \_ Is there any research on how much fuel biodiesel costs
                   to produce?
                        and do some quick back-of-the napkin calculations on
                        the least it could cost, which is already much higher
                        than we pay for gas.  (but might look sweet if the
                        nut-job who was talking about being already past
                        our "peak-oil" production turns out to be right...
                        Well, except that, of course, these numbers DO assume
                        petroleum based fertilizers). -phuqm
        \_ In 50 years, if we become desperate, couldn't we use nuclear
           power and start researching better ways to reduce the environmental
           impact of nuke power?
           \_ Yes, but the problem is that we'd run out of Uranium really fast
                    \_ At least we'll have something to give to the Iranians
                       as a goodwill gesture.  -John
              and then be even worse off than we were before.
              \_ with reprocessing and breeder reactors we could last a
                 really long time. Should be long enough to lick the fusion
                 thing.
                 \_ Mmmm, breeder reactors.  But with that much extra
                   to produce?
                    would make it through the resulting five or six nuclear
                    wars.
                    plutonium running around, and all the cultural upheavals
                    caused by the end of the Oil Age, I doubt the population
                    would make it through the resulting five or six nuclear
                    wars.
                    \_ At least we'll have something to give to the Iranians
                       as a goodwill gesture.  -John
                    \_ I like the "end of the Oil Age"
                    \_ There's already plenty of plutonium floating around,
                       especially in Japan and France.  The cat was out of that
                       bag years ago.
              \_ Fusion research may solve that.  I hope.
        \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
           \_ WHY DO YOU HATE POOR PEOPLE?
        \_ Hydrogen stuff is promising.  Nuclear is the best we have today.
           I keep hoping some clever young Russian figures out fusion.
             -- ilyas
           \_ How is hydrogen promising?  It's got good energy density but how
              is it cost effective or efficient?
              \_ Hydrogen has lots of problems with storage and transport.
                 Ethanol and Methanol make more sense, they are close in
                 energy density (about 1/2) to oil.
              \_ Well, you are right in that hydrogen isn't 'ready.'  I think
                 it's 'promising' because if we have hydrogen, we can get a
                 lot of energy out of it, and it seems like if we try, we will
                 find a way to produce it cheaply without spending a lot of
                 energy (it's the most common element in the universe, after
                 all). -- ilyas
                 \_ I thought 'stupidity' was the most common element in the
                    universe.  And I don't think some clever young russian is
                    going to solve anything anytime soon.  He's too busy
                    driving a cab or running guns/drugs/sex slaves to feed his
                    family to worry about physics and chemistry.
                    \_ I think Russia has some pretty kick ass plasma research
                       and some really impressive metallurgical tech.  I think
                       the previous likely matches or exceeds the US, and the
                       latter was ahead until recently.
                       \_ And will continue to decline.  We already bought
                          their best metals and materials guys years ago.
                    \_ w00t!
           \_ Isn't hydrogen not an alternative energy source?  The energy
              needed to make hydrogen comes from fossil or nuclear.
              \_ Energy is required to extract it, which makes it more like
                 a storage medium than an actual energy source.  That energy
                 required can be wind, solar, etc.  If we get badass fuel
                 cells, maybe you could actually have some hydrogen plant
                 on the edge of a body of water that powered itself.
                 \_ So how's that patent on a perpetual motion machine going?
        \_
                    \_ I had it licked but then BushCo and the eevvvill OilCo
                       Execs with the help of GM and Bigfoot (through his
                       proxy, Elvis) stopped me!
        \_ Nuclear
           \_ Agreed, it's currently nuclear.
              \_ That's nu-ku-lar.
                 \_ Only if you're from the South, like Jimmy Carter, the
                    first nu-ku-lar President.
                        \_ Carter has an additional digit in his IQ.
                           \_ Ah, so now that you realize Bush's
                              pronuciation is the same as your hero's,
                              you're reverted to even more
                              petty attacks.  Good show old boy!
        \_ Coal
           \_ +++ cost-effective
                - efficient
           \_ --------- dirty.
              \_ And we can afford clean for how many more years?
                 \_ At least 50-100 years on nukes alone.  Possible longer but
                    it's hard to say since the anti-nuke lobby has prevented
                    any serious research in that area.
                    \_ The two legitimate problems with nuclear power are
                       (a) Chernobyl (accidental or terrorism-related)
                       (b) Another source of nuclear material for terrorists
                       (c) Storing the waste somewhere
                           \_ I'm going to say (c) is a subset of (b).  Also,
                              the quantity of waste is far less than with
                              coal/oil, which "disappears into the air
                              somewhere".  If you say, "Well, no state wants
                              to store it", I'll say this is a political
                              problem, which is not a "legitimate problem"
                              as I'm defining it.
                      The problem with coal/oil/gas is:
                       (a) You're going to run short in the near future
                       (b) All that smoke is going somewhere (less so with
                           "clean" coal and gas)
        \_ Alternatives will include a combination of nuclear (unfortunately),
            wind, solar -- There is no magic bullet.  www.iogen.ca has a neat
           process of turning farm waste into ethanol, could be used to replace
           a good chunk of oil.
           \_ I learned that the first commercial turkey waste -> oil factory
              was opened recently.  The problem is, there's not enough organic
              waste to feed the demand for oil. -- ilyas
                \_ Also that system wouldn't scale -- Raising animals is very
                   energy intensive especially with factory farms.  However,
                   there is lots and lots of farm waste from growing crops.
                   That turkey processing operation only make a piddling amount
                   of oil but the technology is very interesting, every little
                   bit helps.  There are also pilot projects in CA to turn
                   cow shit methane into power.
2004/2/19 [Uncategorized] UID:29821 Activity:low
2/19    When I registered a FBN the county clerk said they sell the names on
        cd-roms which has a lot of buyers.  Since I have to give my residence
        addr (po box not allowed), isn't there a danger of identity theft?
        \_ FBN? Lots of information about people is on public record.
2004/2/19 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:29822 Activity:low
2/19    Any students here would like to comment on EECS enrollment after
        the dot-com collapse?  How many people enrolled in CS61A?  When I
        was a freshman there were only about 100 some odd people in 60A.
        I heard it ballooned to 400+ at the height of the boom.  What happened
        after that?
        \_ you realize that most people who post on motd are NOT enrolled
           in school?
           \_ I guess that's why it's addressed to "any students here."
2004/2/19 [Uncategorized] UID:29823 Activity:low
2/19    I recall a post about plan to penalize using false personal
        information when registering a domain.  So will private registration
        also be outlawed?
        \_ It is all still speculation at this point.
2004/2/19 [Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:29824 Activity:high
2/19    I have two CGI scripts on my Apache-hosted site which I want
        to be accessed only through https. I also use relative url's
        throughout all my pages and would like to keep it this way. As
        far as I can tell, the only way to link to a page over https
        is with a fully-qualified URL. My scheme: create some Rewrite
        Rules so that if any url ends with, for ex, "-secure", rewrite
        that to https, and then add a SSLRequireSSL directive so a
        clever user will be thwarted if they try to access the page w/out
        the "-secure". Does anyone see anything wrong with this solution?
        Is there a better way?
        \_Not really. Not quite sure what the problem is with people
          directly accessing your https server vs. being linked over.
          Since http is stateless, it could create potential problems
          when users use the back/forward buttons on their browsers
          I guess...
          \_ it's not the statelessness, it's the not-wanting to write
             absolute URLs, I think
             \_ exactly, I'd rather not start sprinkling absolute URLs
                throughout the site. -op
        \_ I think the mod_rewrite cookbook page even has examples of doing
           this with a suffix like :ssl  --dbushong
2004/2/19 [Finance/Investment, Finance/Banking, Reference/RealEstate] UID:29825 Activity:kinda low
2/19    So I invested my life savings and took out a second mortgage
        on my house to buy EMRG, just like the motd told me to. Now
        my broker says he is doing something called a "margin
        call" and my wife wants a divorce. What should I do?
        \_ When there's something strange
           In your neighborhood
           Who ya gunna call?
        \_ that post for EMRG was when it was at $1.60, now it's
        at $2.80? learn to take profits.. or never get in after the
        runs
        \_ You, sir, are an asshat.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:19 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>