Transportation Airplane - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2019/01/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2006/3/21-25 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:42354 Activity:nil
3/21    The Coming Normalcy by Robert Kaplan of The Atlantic Online
        Write up about Mosul.  I think he has a clue.
        \_ An article on the Stryker vehicle:
2006/3/1-2 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:42044 Activity:kinda low
        Stewardess panics in high turbulence.  Uh ... wrong job I guess?
        "She began screaming every time the plane shook. She shouted at the top
        of her voice, 'We're going to crash! We're going to crash! We're going
        to crash!'" The un-named woman - in her mid 20s - also lobbed sick bags
        across the cabin when poorly [sic] passengers screamed for more.
        \_ a friend of mine was a Stewardess for Continental.  She gets motion
           sickness if she eat anything on the plane.  So, her solution is
           not eat anything on flight... and she is on direct flight from
           Newark to Hong Kong via North Pole... 21 hours straight :p
        \_ Definitely wrong job.  I think it's a job requirement to appear calm
           in these situations.
           \- see SQ-crash* at
              \_ please send us more links to irrelevant, boring stuff
              \_ Dude, that was horrendous. Warning: do not read if you're
                 easily spooked and want to fly every again. --erikred
                 \- i was on that flight a week before! i actually think it
                    almost says more about journalists than airlines.
                    Singapore Airlines needed Scott McClellan:
                    MESERVE: A Singapore Airlines spokesman just told
                             us that he believed, at this point, there
                             were no fatalities. Was that your
                             impression as you left the aircraft?
                    DIAZ: Oh, there were tons of fatalities. There
                          were people burning on the flight. I only
                          saw about 20 people -- I only saw about 20
                          people that -- clearly I don't know -- they
                          put us in a room. But there were lots of
                          fatalities. The plane split in half.
2006/2/8-10 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Law/Court] UID:41770 Activity:low
2/8     I just got a traffic ticket and I intend to fight it all the way.
        Step 1-- I just activated my one time extension from Feb to April.
        To plead not guilty I need to write them a check and on top write
        NOT GUILTY, then a new court date will be assigned. Should I write
        a check now, or wait until it's closer to April? I've been told
        that the longer I wait, the less likely the cop will show up.
        Any other advice? Thanks.
        \_ Be sure to do your legal research.  I suggest starting with
           Marbury v. Madison.
        \_ There's a social engineering way to find out what days the cop
           who gave you the tickey has off.
        \_ I went to fight a ticket and I'll be damned if the cop didn't
           show up. Surprised the hell out of me, since it was LAPD and
           not some hick police force. However, I won anyway. Woo hoo!
           \_ So you thought he was gonna stay at the donut shop? Cops get
              paid extra $200-300 a day for showing up at the courthouse,
              as it is one of the biggest revenue sources at the CHP.
              \_ I thought LAPD would have bigger problems than my stupid
                 ticket, which I won anyway.
2006/1/10-12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:41321 Activity:low
1/10    Yet again, the rest of the world smirks:  -John
        \_ Most of that doesn't really seem smirkworthy to me.  I mean, it's
           silly _now_ because the industry is just starting up, but these just
           seem like practical extensions of air travel-based rules, which will
           make sense when/if space tourism "takes off"  --dbushong
           \_ Dave, the only reason the FAA is able to enforce moronic "take
              off your shoes" rules and no-fly lists (which really don't
              do anything) is because either flights originate/terminate in
              the US, or because in a more extended manner they have leverage
              over airlines that want to use US airports at all.  This bit
              of "news" is representative of a particular kind of arrogance
              which implies that the US has jurisdiction over stuff it..well..
              you get the idea.  If they were just good ideas and security
              recommendations, or an attempt to help the industry establish
              best practices, that'd be different; as it is, I do not credit
              the FAA (or any government TLA for that matter) with this sort
              of altruism.  -John
              \_ "The suggestions will affect Sir Richard Branson's enterprise
                  which aims to launch people into space this decade."  ...which
                  is based out of NM, which is within the FAA's jurisdiction,
                  right?  I was under the impression they were trying to
                  regulate the US space business, not the world's.
                  \_ Yeah, that's under the military's jurisdiction.
                  \_ Note that the article does not specify whether they
                     are going after US-based companies only.  However,
                     point taken.  -John
2006/1/4-6 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:41216 Activity:low
        German passengers filed "false imprisonment" after plane delay.
        \_ 7+ hours stuck in a cramped airplane.  I'd call that bullshit.
           At least let the passengers back into the airport lounge.
           \_ I'm convinced that this is the *only* reason they have that
              "no cell phone use" rule on planes.  It keeps people from calling
              lawyers and cops in these situations.
           \_ Yeah, except that the FAA counts an "on time" departure if the
              plane is away from the terminal even if you sit on the tarmac for
              hours.  Which is probably why the pilot didn't want to return to
              the terminal.
                \_ or more specifically, when the aircraft door closes - this
                   timestamps the departure. When aircraft door reopens at
                   destination, this is the official arrival time. Going back
                   to the subject, why can't they just cancel the damn flight?
              \_ My wife and I got stuck on a plane in London for 6 hours
                 after they found the wingflaps faulty. They said they
                 couldn't allow the passengers back in the terminal because
                 we had cleared customs. On the plus side, they said we
                 were clear to enjoy any duty free goods because we had
                 technically "left the country" (the plane actually took
                 off, flew for 30 minutes, and then returned to London
                 when the faulty equipment was discovered.)
                 when the faulty equipment was discovered.) -bz
        \_ We were stuck in a plane on the runway for 6 hours (once we got off
           the ground it was a 6 hour flight)  I'm never flying through Newark
           again.  --dbushong
        \_ There was a case sometime in the last 5 years of a plane being
           stuck on the runway for more than 10 hours, maybe as much as
           20 (I forget the exact incident.)  -John
2019/01/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2006/1/3-5 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic] UID:41206 Activity:nil
12/3    RocketMan for real:
        \_ Those wacky Finns.
2006/1/2-4 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:41202 Activity:nil
1/2     Work Well With Others (fly engines)
2006/1/2-4 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:41201 Activity:nil
1/2     Anyone here ever use
2005/12/29-2006/1/4 [Consumer/Audio, Transportation/Airplane] UID:41170 Activity:nil
12/29   Motd gadget guru, I would like to get a noise cancellation
        headphone for use on airplanes and commutes, should I go with
        something like Sennheiser PCX 250, or Shure E2/3c? The Shure
        is more portable, how well does it work in airplanes? Thanks.
        \_ Related question, are there any noise cancellation headphones
           with volume control? My Dad would be interested in such a
        \_ I haven't tried noise-cancelling headphones, but I do have
           Shure e2c-s.  The e2c-s are good for blocking out quite a bit of
           noise, but airplanes are still loud enough that a lot still gets
           through.  I've hard that noise-cancelling headphones are good on
           \_ BTW, I've heard that the e3c-s are generally much better than
              the e2c-s, although I don't know how they fare on airplanes.
        \_ Shure E4C has gotten great reviews. havne't tried it yet.  Have
           tried the much cheaper philips SBC HN050 and its quiet enough.
        \_ I use the Etymotic ER6-i on BART everyday and it is a godsend.  You
           can still hear the train but it is much quieter so I don't feel like
           I need to turn the volume up to 11 (usually more like 2-3).
        \_ I have a Sennheiser PCX 250.  Don't get it.  It has too many
           wires for any pratical use other than sleeping on the airplane.
           The actual noise cancelling mechanism is great.  but I've pulled
           the wires too many times that I need to get it fixed.
        \_ I am also looking for a noise-cancelling, bluetooth headset.
           any recommendation?
        \_ I have a pair of mid-range Shure earbuds.  They cancel noise.
           They are very uncomfortable.  Get anything that actually covers
           your ears.  -John
        \_ I've compared my friend's Etymotic with my Shure E3c and the
           Etymotic has noticably better sound quality.  The soundstage
           and detail was definately superior.  Having said that, you have
           to keep in mind what you are buying these for.  The Shures
           are much more efficient, and played comfortably at volume
           level 3 on my mp3 player where the Etymotic had to be run at
           volume 9-10 for equivalent volume. I use my Shures primarily
           to block out the noises from the surrounding cubicles at work,
           or while out and about.  The Shures were good enough for me
           soundwise, more comfortable, and I like to think they'd conserve
           more battery power due better efficiency.  They are still better
           than practically all other earbuds out there, but they just
           sound a little flat next to the Etymotics.  I've found
           that sponge earbud inserts are the most comfortable for me,
           and sponge earplugs (like the kind you can usually find
           in any datacenter) with a hole punched through them
           (I used a uniball pen) work great as cheap replacements.
2005/12/8-11 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:40925 Activity:nil
12/8    Anyone who flew international recently. Did the check-in luggage limit
        got decreased from 70 pound to 50 pound? I'll be flying to China soon.
        \_ Great. Encourage more people to carry on luggage that they should
           be checking in.
        \_ Found it, it is 50 pounds now. Damn.
        \_ I want a passenger + luggage < 250 lbs limit NOW
           \_ I've been asked my weight when buying plane tickets before.  No,
              I'm not a fatass, but in single engine planes every pound
                \_ This is for fuel calculation though.  -John
           \- when did it change? i checked +65lbs last week of Nov.
              although i heard something about this the ticket i looked
              at had the old weight limits.
           \_ Why?
              \_ So I get more luggage allowance.  It doesn't matter if the
                 airplane is burning fuel to move fat or luggage.  Make the
                 400 pounders pay up instead of penalizing the rest of us.
                 \_ Yeah, I just can't wait for all those 110 pound women to
                    start bringing an extra 70 pounds of shit on the plane
                    to make up the difference with us 180 pound guys.
           \_ To hell with you. I'm 7' tall and 250lbs, and I'm still under-
              weight. Eat a sandwich and get over it. --erikred
        \_ I travel very frequently, and it's always been 32kg due to US
           labor laws.  I hope you live in the big ciy in China, though,
           because domestic flight within China has maximum weight of
           something like 20 or 25kg per lugguage, *ONE* lugguage per person.
           So, if you intent to transfer, don't bring too much stuff!
2005/12/7 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:40893 Activity:nil
12/7    Rat brain cells learn to fly a F-22:
2005/12/6-7 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:40880 Activity:moderate
12/6    Pesky journalists!
        "A plane loaded with Iranian journalists ... At least 128 people were
        killed -- 34 on the ground ... the plane appeared to be circling the
        airport when its tail suddenly burst into flames, leaving a smoke trail
        as it plummeted ... The C-130 is built by Lockheed ..."
        \_ Hmm,  that seems odd.  It was having engine trouble, then the
           tail burst into flames?  The C-130 doesn't have any engines in
           the tail.
           \_ Any gas tanks near the tail?
              \_ Suicide bombers always travel in economy.  -John
                 \_ That's because they get free upgrades.  "Madam, either you
                    give me that empty seat in the First Class or I'll press
                    the trigger."
                 \_ And demand free upgrades mid-flight.  "Madam, either you
                    give me that empty seat in the First Class now, or I'll
                    press the trigger."
                    \_ You mean "I demand a seat in heaven!"  <boom>
           \_ gas tanks are usually in the wings.  Tails usually have the
              power generation unit, which looks a lot like an engine.
           \_ No idea.  I only know of the ones in the wings, here's some
              info though.
        \_ Another 9/11.
        \_ I think it's CIA's work.  I mean, we are quite experienced at
           taking down Iranian planes, no?
           \_ The Iranians are quite good at crashing planes all on their own.
           \_ I'll tell you why we know the CIA wasn't behind the crash: the
              planes crashed, didn't they?
2005/11/30-12/3 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:40787 Activity:kinda low
11/30   TSA to announce Friday that some scissors less than 4 inches long will
        now be permitted in carry-on baggage, since 25% of bags with an illegal
        item have ... small scissors!  Flight attendants still prefer they get
        screened, but who cares about them.
        \- that kinda funny ... my father just got busted for this on tue.
        \_ TSA has always allowed EMT shears (blunt scissors)
           \_ As long as they aren't useful to someone with their jaw wired
              shut.  YMWTGF 'TSA "wired jaw"'
        \_ I took a can of almonds with me on my flight which had a very
           sharp aluminum lid on them. I even cut myself opening them. I
           think the whole security thing is stupid beyond belief.
           \_ Speaking of which.. what happened to all those kids in green
              uniforms with F-16 rifles? Were the poor sobs all sent to
              \_ F-16 rifles?  Those sound pretty unwieldy.
                 \_ They come with shoulder straps, but they sometimes get
                    tangled in the landing gear.
                    \- those don't exist!  unlike the GU-11 veritech gun pod,
                       although it's best in battloid or guardian modes
                       \_ That's battloid and _gerwalk_ to all you souls
                          uncorrupted by Robotech.
                 \_ Definitely the most maneuverable rifle on the market.
              \_ You mean M-16?
        \_ I'll care when I don't have to take my shoes off when going through
           \_ From now on your nickname is plutonium shoes.
           \_ 5/7 times I flew (SJC<->LAX) I didn't have to take off my shoes.
              And I'm middle-eastern. I've also stopped getting "randomly"
              screened every single time I fly. --swarthy male
              \_ I used to get searched *every time* I flew.  I think it was
                 beacause I tended to buy my tickets at the last minute and
                 because I tended to buy my tickets at the last minute and
                 online.  I look about as white as you possibly can, so I
                 don't think it's just racial profiling.
              \_ Swarthy male... do you feel you are being targeted for
                 randomn searches?
                 \_ Can't speak for swarthy male, but my hot blonde friend
                    claims she is being targeted.
                    claims she is being targeted, especially when she  is
                    travelling abroad.
                    \_ They're just trying to find excuses to conduct body
                       search on her.
        \_ how did the hijackers during 9/11 get control of the planes?
           was it just through the use of box cutters?  didnt read the
           report or anything.
2005/11/23-28 [Academia/GradSchool, Transportation/Airplane] UID:40718 Activity:nil 88%like:40709
11/23   White flight in Cupertino: (
        \_ That article was hilarious.
2005/11/22-24 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:40702 Activity:low
11/22 (
        A house made up of 747 parts. TOTALLY COOL.
        \_I'm sure it will have more parts than that!
        \_ Is it really for the environment?  Aren't there more useful ways to
        \_ Is it really for the environment?  Aren't there better ways to
           recycle that kind of expensive metal?
2005/11/9-10 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:40508 Activity:kinda low
        Google.  Don't be evil.  Unless you're us.
        keywords: jet 767 boeing learjet
        \_ I don't get it.  What's evil about having your own jet?  I mean,
           it sounds like they're actually being quite practical by buying
           a used jet and refurbishing it, rather than blowing the budget on
           a Gulfstream.
           \_ How much fuel does a 767-200 use compared to how much a prius
              \_ how much sodium is an apple vs. how many calories an orange
                 \_ Google gives bonuses for Prius drivers.  Not for
                    orange/apple eaters.
              \_ I remember reading somewhere that when a 747 loaded with
                 passengers travels from England to Egypt to see the pyramids,
                 the trip back and forth burns more energy than was required
                 to build the pyramids.
                 \_ An almost-fully occupied 747 gets 100 person-miles per
                    gallon.  Much better than most hybrid car when you drive
                 \_ A almost-fully occupied 747 gets 100 miles per gallon per
                    person.  Much better than any hybrid car when you drive
                    solo.  Even better than some SUVs when fully occupied.
                    \_ Of course, it's not a 747, it's a 767, and it won't be
                       fully occupied.  In the article it's mentioned that
                       "Gore Design" is redoing the interior.  I doubt it will
                       have the capacity as an unmodified 767.  Though we can
                       guess that it's "more than 50".  That makes it more like
                       10 person-miles per gallon (if comparable to a 747).
           \_ Also, they bought it though a tax shelter INC in Delaware.  Nice.
        \_ Last I checked, there weren't any natural-gas, solar, hybrid or
        battery-powered airplanes. If they were up for buying a jet, into
        which they plan to put a lot of people in, their choice is fine.
        \_ I think you may be confusing "evil" with "wasteful".  The fact
           that my rich, well-fed ass is sitting here, posting to motd instead
           of helping children in Uzbekistan, Upper Volta learn their ABCs
           and feeding Dinty Moore beef stew to starving penguins in
           Argentina, is also wasteful and socially irresponsible.  Oh, the
           weltschmerz.  Shoot the rich!  -John
           \_ If you haven't seen it, you whould watch Eat The Rich.  It has
              Lemmy Kilmister in it.
2005/11/1-4 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:40396 Activity:nil
11/1    dear motd travel agent / airline hassle advisor:
        I was scheduled and confirmed on an international flight through
        Northwest airlines that leaves less than two weeks from now. I got a
        call letting me know the flight has been cancelled. They have offered
        to reschedule me on an alternate itinerary but it's pretty crappy,
        involving an additional stopover and a long layover. Can I demand a
        flight that would work better for me (there seems to be one available)
        or do I have to put up with the alternative they gave me? any advice
        on how to bitch them out to get what I want?
        \_ You can get basically anything you can talk your way into, from
           free tickets to first class upgrades.  In fact, it is possible to
           pick up a payphone and call customer service from the airport
           the second you get fucked and go out on a flight two hours later,
           upgraded to first class, while the other suckers from the same
           flight sit in the airport and bitch.  The key is to have a written
           list of grievances against the airline to use as a crib sheet while
           you're on the phone, and to be polite but
           forcefull and consistent, always reiterating your grievances and
           pushing for compensation.
        \_ No, but the Travel Tab feature of AvantGo will help you keep track
           of your wildly changing itinerary.  Plug plug.  --dbushong
        \_ It all depends on how much of a damage you're suffering from.
           If the reschedule puts you at your destination more than 3-4 hrs
           later than the original time, you may request some kind of a con-
           sideration. This applies to both paid and award/miles travel, so
           do call NW and ask (nicely!) what they can do for you. Good luck!
           \_ NW has been good to me in the past.  They've even compensated
              me for times when I've been an idiot and missed flights.  I'd
              say to try nicely to get what you want for free (seeing how
              you've already given them money), and if they don't play nice,
              you can always talk with someone else and register a complaint.
2005/10/25-26 [Reference/BayArea, Transportation/Airplane] UID:40255 Activity:low
10/25   I'm going to be singing at Carnegie Hall and Wintergarden in November.
        The preview shows are this weekend in SF and Berkeley.  Come check it
        Also, this will be my first trip to NYC.  Is there anything I must not
        miss?  I'll be there a little over a week, so I should have time to fit
        in some good wandering. --scotsman
        \_ Will you be doing any performances in the SFBA around the end of
           December?  I'm dead curious :-)  -John
        \_ NYC sucks. All cities suck. All that traffic, pollution,
           and rude people. Stay in the suburbs, it's better for you.
           \_ Funny, there's no Carnegie hall in the suburbs...
           \_ Does anyone else feel the quality of trolls has gone down since
              the amckee apocalypse?
              \_ What happened?  I read in the minutes that amckee resigned,
                 but there was no explanation from either him or the
                 secretary why.
                 \_ Because he made a very public ass of himself.
        \- lobster bisque at the soup nazi. and maybe a few egg cremes.
           my associates liked Ave Q.
        \_ I was just there (first trip) last week. I really liked the
           Lower East Side and Chelsea/Hell's Kitchen. Soho was nice too.
           \- you really should grab a NYker and look at the front
              to see what is going on "about town". it's hard to give
              advice without knowing if you are interested in seeing
              a band, a photo exhibit, illuminated manuscripts etc.
              see what special exhibits are going on at the gug, icp,
              the big museusm etc. oh i also sort of like the cloisters.
              \_ We were going to try to book the cloisters as a 4th venue,
                 but they couldn't fit us.
        \_ The Village is the place to hang.  Late night jazz in basement
           clubs.  John's Pizza on Bleeker.  A trip up to Central Park
           and either the Guggenheim or the MOMA (the Guggenheim is worth
           it just for the building).  Some sort of theater, on or off
           Broadway.  Theater and musems are the areas where NYC really
           kicks the Bay Area's ass.
           Side note: When I was a kid, my family once had to ask someone on
           the street, "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?", but the guy didn't
           take the straight line.
           Congratulations!  -tom
              \_ We were going to try to book the cloisters as a 4th venue,
                 but they couldn't fit us.
        \_ Pick up a Time Out New York for listings of
           concerts/museums/etc. If you are a foodie, it may be worth
           your while to buy/borrow a Zagat's Guide.
        \_ Was just there for the first time a couple weeks ago.
           Don't see The Producers (not as good as you think).
           Central Park is nice if you're with a girl.
           I really liked Menchanko-Tei's (43-45 W 55th St) basic lunch
           ramen -- better than any I've had in West L.A. or Little Tokyo L.A.,
           also about $7-10, and comfy atmosphere.
           \_ last i checked [3 weeks ago], menchanko-tei is on 45th,
              east of lexington, on the north side
           \_ i also liked sapporo, 49th st between 6th and 7th aves
        \_ The Tasting Room is awesome.  -John
        \_ Congratulations!
2005/9/28 [Transportation/Airplane, Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39916 Activity:nil
9/28    oh my, Pres. Bush while flying over oil Rigs..
        "It's like Atlantis down there..."
2005/9/22-23 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:39825 Activity:nil
9/22    Anyone know where I can find video of the Jetblue landing last night?
2005/9/22-23 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:39808 Activity:nil
9/22 (LA Times)
        "The plane--on the animated map at his seat--'wasn't going anywhere ...
        just hanging around in Los Angeles.' A few minutes later, he heard the
        calm male voice of Flight 292's pilot, Scott Burke, speaking over the
        plane's intercom: 'For those of you who may have noticed we are flying
        in circles ... we are currently experiencing difficulties with the
        front landing gear.' ... A young woman at his side turned to him
        nervously: 'So what does that mean?' ..."
        \_ "Honey, it means I'm your last chance to get laid.  Let's go to
           the lavatory..."
2005/9/21 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:39802 Activity:nil
9/21    Upcoming air disaster in LAX in a moment:
        \_ Too late.  It just landed safely a few minutes ago.
        \_ Why do you hate Los Angeles?
2005/9/21-23 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:39801 Activity:nil
9/21    Gentle humming gives aircrafts a better lift:,3604,1574553,00.html
        \_ So I should hum the Koran loudly to make the plane fly better
        \_ "Hello honey. ...... Hey, what's that moaning in the background?"
           "Oh, the stewardess and I are just trying to help the plane fly."
           "Oh, the stewardess and I are humming to help the plane fly."
2005/9/20-21 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:39765 Activity:nil
9/20    "Airlines to Test Cell-Phone Service" - Yahoo! News:
        "... its general release in 2007 for everywhere in the world but North
        America".  Good!  At least I can still sleep on domestic flights.
        \_ YO 'SUP DOG, I'M IN A PLANE
        \_ YO 'SUP DOG, I'M IN A PLANE
2005/9/2-4 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/RealEstate] UID:39467 Activity:nil
9/2     Hey, this is pretty cool:
        \_ Uh, yeah, but some of these people don't even have enough money
           in their bank accounts to fly to Stepford, Connecticut.
           \- there is an interesting mix of impressive and
              creepy stuff in there. at least one person says
              he'll let a hurricane victim have his southwest
             free tix to get there. geeze, there are real
             estate ads there?
2005/8/26 [Transportation/Airplane, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:39287 Activity:low 50%like:39369
8/25    Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
        <DEAD><DEAD>  -John
        \_ I think you mean
                Also known as pastafarians.
           \_ Unfortunately, there are way more than 17 pirates in the world
           \_ Half-life of C14 is 5730yrs?  I thought it was 5400yrs.
              \_ May all His followers find the right pirate outfits in the
                 closet, so that they can walk out of it and show the world our
                 real strength.  RAmen.
        \_ This starts out as a good "show how silly ID is" bit, but rapidly
           devolves to stupidity.  I think The Onion's "Intelligent Falling"
           article is much better:
           \_ But FSM leads to good holiday names like Pastaover and Ramendan.
2005/8/17-20 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:39148 Activity:nil
8/17    Why is it that when a plane depressurizes by accident, it becomes hard
        to control and it loses altitude?  Is it real or is it just a Hollywood
           sounds like the biggest issue would by hypoxia of the pilots.
           \_ Thanks.  I guess it's just a Hollywood thing then.
        \_ cuz it's fricken cold
          \_ i think it's okay for pilots to drink alcohol so they
           can keep warm if this happens..
        \_ Wasn't there a passenger airplane in the late 80s that was flying
           over Hawaiian islands and suddenly started falling apart in
           mid-flight? They landed fine and I think there were few or no
           casualties then.
           \_ You mean the Aloha flight 243.
                 pictures or the plane after landing.
              \_ Yow!  I am so keeping my seatbelt buckled.
              \_ What's surprising is how come the airplane didn't fall
                 apart in mid-air and how come no one froze to death?
                 \_ Must be because the crew took the plane down to ~ 12,000
                    feet as soon as possible.
2005/8/15-17 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:39129 Activity:nil
8/15    1-year-old terror suspect stopped from boarding a plane.  All hail DHS!
        \_ This is even better than the time they gave the full on search
           treatment to Ray Charles.
2005/8/2-4 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:38942 Activity:kinda low
8/2     What happens when your pilot doesn't know how to land a plane
        correctly:  (Paris -> Toronto, 309 passengers, Airbus 340) (Yahoo! News slideshow)
        "Leah Walker, a radio reporter in Toronto, said she saw a third of the
        plane fall and that the rest became a fireball." ...
        Marx said he initially didn't think anything was wrong. But then,
        "The guy I was with piped up, 'You know, he's getting pretty close to
        the end.' Immediately afterward, right off he went."
        \_ Isn't the A340 supposed to be auto-everything?
        \_ Wheew.  Apparently no one died:
           \_ The pilot has killed himself:
           \_ The pilot has killed himself: --danh
              \_ Some of you guys have wierd senses of humor.
                 \_ I laughed.  Does that mean I'm demented?
              \_ Yermummy!
                \_ Whoever enjoys signing my name to the motd, I do
                        \- "Whomever" --psb
                   not add "--" to the beginning of my name, try
                   only 1 dash next time. - danh
              \- The time has come for:
                 \_ I don't get it, why was this posted?
                    \_ I dunno but it made me look up the real facts:
                       Oh and haha, I just noticed it's from "world socialist"
                       web site. Whatever. I guess this is better:
                       If anyone cares.

                        \_ CNN - complete waste of airwaves... they can't report
                            anything on happening in real-time.  -cnn_sufferer
                            anything on real, happening events.
2005/7/27-29 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:38849 Activity:low
7/27    If there is a 2% chance of fatalities on space flights, should
        human manned space flights be suspended?
        \_ There's a high chance of fatalities in many professions.
           Join the military (even during peace time), become a mine
           worker, become a cop, operate a crane. It's all dangerous
           but we still do it.
           \_ 2% is high.  But if the risk can be reduced to .5% or less.
        \_ You're overestimating the danger by 100%!
        \_ The real problem here isn't the fatalities. Lots of people would
           like to go if the probability was 50%. The problem is that
           replacing a blown-up space vehicle every other flight can get
           expensive. It has to be reliable to be affordable, unless someone
           figures out how to make spaceships for cheap.
           \_ Also, a blown-up vehicle is bad PR, which makes soliciting future
              fundings more difficult.
        \_ if there is a 100% chance of fatality from living, should all life
           be suspended?
2005/7/22-25 [Transportation/Airplane, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:38770 Activity:nil
7/22    In case you haven't heard, Longhorn is called Windows Vista:
        \_ And like the flying car, it's always just around the corner...
           \_ I would like to preemptively proclaim my hatred of flying cars.
              The same fucking retards who drive around in 5000 pound SUV's
              while talking on cell phones, blast through crosswalks at 55
              mph without looking and park on sidewalks (i.e. the American
              public) should NOT EVER be alowed to fly.  They WILL park
              in trees over sidewalks, which will break causing even more
              pedestrian slaughter.  They will park on roofs where it is
              unsafe, run into power lines causing outages, crash into office
              buildings (out of sheer stupidity at first, then the terrorists
              will start using them as bombs), get stuck in trees and have to
              be choppered out,  and break down over crowded areas and
              crash like stones.  FUCK FLYING CARS!!!
              \_ so trolled.
              \_ This is for you (mp3). -- ulysses
                 \_ Go ahead and laugh.  We'll see how funny you think it is
                    when some fucker crashes their flying SUV into the side of
                    YOUR house, or after a flying car parked in a tree falls
                    and kills YOUR dog.
2005/6/24-26 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:38283 Activity:moderate
6/24    Anyone have a car key that slides out of the plastic holder by a
        \_ Yes, and I am actively avoiding any unnecessary travel to the US
           because I do not like being hassled by fat, stupid airport
           "security" monkeys (although to be fair the ones in SF have become
           far better than the morons in the Midwest I've dealt with.)  A lot
           of friends and colleagues are doing the same.  Must be nice to not
           have to give a shit about lost business/tourist travel revenue
           in return for some perceived security.  -John
           \_ The airlines are so successful that they don't need to worry
              about the few whiners who don't care about natl security. Oh
              \_ What do they have to worry about?  The same dumb-ass government
                 that imposed these moronic security measures will bail their
                 bumb asses out as soon as they whine loud enough.
           \_ Boy, don't get me started on US airlines, at least not major
              carriers--they're inofficially shitlisted by a lot of
              business travellers for being crap.  -John
              \_ Seen on a Korean message board:
                 "I think United is racist, they were really rude to me."
                 "No, they're not racist, they treat everyone like that."
           \_ You have just been put on the full body/cavity search
              list for the next time you fly into America, for uttering
              such unpatriotic sentiments.
2005/6/5-6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:37974 Activity:nil
6/5     Mendocino Travel Report: Took 580 -> 101S -> 1. Total travel time,
        including an hour of scattered food and view stops: 6 hours. There
        was _no_ traffic on 1, but between the incredibly curvy roads and
        the spectacular views, we hardly averaged 30mph the whole way up.
        Returned on 1 -> 128 -> 101 -> 580, and the trip was a mere 3 hours,
        including silly traffic slowth around Santa Rosa. --erikred
2005/6/3-6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:37961 Activity:nil
6/2     Helicopter lands on Everest:
        \_ What's so special about it?  Choppers land on mountais everywhere.
           \_ Everest is the highest mountain in the world.  It's difficult
              to fly a helicopter in thin air.
           \_ This was the first time a helicopter managed to land on
              \-It was my understanding helicopers rarely went above basecamp
                and the highest rescues were in the 20k-22k feet range.
                Some what morbidly in the Everest area you see helicopers
                maybe once a day ... you see them zoom in, and then
                *immediately* come back heading in the other direction ...
                and you know somebody is not a happy camper. sometimes you
                are higher up then they are. also the landing strip at
                lukla [main place to fly into the Everest area] is something
                to see.
                \_ I think the missing piece is "first time a helicopter lands
                   on the PEAK of Everest"
2005/5/24-25 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:37818 Activity:low
5/23    We know old people have problems on the road. Now we know they
        have problems in the sky too. Maybe the 65 year old mandatory
        retirement rule from airlines is a good thing afterall:,2933,157445,00.html
        \_ It's just Republican propaganda.  Really.
        \_ I thought the commercial pilot mandatory retirement age was 60,
           not 65.  And nothing in that story suggests that age was a factor,
           just basic cluelessness.
        \_ Guys never stop at gas stations to ask for directions!  Oh, it's a
           plane ......
2005/5/19-20 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:37767 Activity:low
5/19    I understand the US concern for EU to give loans to airbus, but
        didn't we gave billions to help United so they won't go
        bankrupt? Isn't it the same thing?
        \_ airline providing service versus company providing product?
        \_ US just a crying baby, I mean it.
        \_ I think it's the same thing, but one could argue that the United
           situation is a result of a terrorist strike.
           \_ if that is the case, then, Southwest Airline must be aiding
              the terrorist organization.  How else would you explain that
              Southwest is making profit in the midst of terrorist attack
              and rising fuel cost?
                \_ Southwest used their massive cash hoard to hedge fuel up
                   the wazoo, they are paying $30/barrel for their fuel still.
        \_ No, actually we didn't give billions to United.
           \_ According to Rumsfeld, if you can't prove that it didn't
              happen, then we should give it the benefit of the doubt.  Then
              we should send in the marines and cluster bombs.  Fucking
              United won't know what hit them.
              \_ Hahahaha, that's a good one! ;)
        \_ They, like other airlines, pay little (or no?) tax on kerosene.
           Likewise, I seem to recall they've received pretty lenient
           treatment in terms of bankruptcy protection, but you should check
           your own facts on that.  The US does give pretty preferential
           treatment to Boeing & other aerospace companies though, in terms
           of contracts, sharing of research paid for by tax money, etc.--
           beyond that, both Airbus & Boeing engage in enormously dodgy
           tactics to secure deals.  It's a thoroughly cutthroat industry, and
           both the EU and US are right about the other side being a bunch
           of protectionist lying shitbags.  As for sending in the marines,
           when's the last time you flew United?  Notice the battleaxes they
           have as stewardesses?  Those chicks have hair on their teeth;
           they'd eat those poor bastards up alive.  -John
           \_ rofl!!
2005/5/11-12 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:37621 Activity:nil
5/11    About the 15-mile-radius restricted air space in DC.  How fast can
        planes fly in low atmosphere?  If it's around 300mph, it'd only take
        three minutes to reach the center.  How is that enough time to scramble
        a fighter jet from ground to reach the plane and then try to
        communicate to the offending pilot, before deciding to shoot it down?
        \_ Wait for a redacted pdf outlining the military's plans, and then
           copy all of the text into a plain text file. The answers will be
           there. --eriikred
        \_ SAM
           \_ Oooo scary, Single Asian Man
           \_ when it gets to the SAM stage, the only choice is to shoot down
              or not, and when a plans is shot down, the wreckage has to land
              \_ It's better if the poor tourists gets the falling debris
                 than plane crashing into something important.
                 \_ yes, like our beloved George Bush.
        \_ believe me, they'll have jets ready by the time someone actually
           breaches the 15 mile circle.
        \_ Why would you want to fly into their airspace when you can easily
           do a Lee Boyd Malvo?
2005/5/6-8 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:37558 Activity:low
5/6     Does any part of a hollow point bullet liquify during its flight?
        \_ No.
           \_ so how does it end up looking like this?
              I just got this off of, and there are lots like it.
              That sure looks to me like it's melted.  Are you saying the
              solid just deforms in flight?
              \_ Lead is very, very soft.  The reason for using a hollow
                 point bullet is because it expands when it hits flesh, making
                 a much larger wound cavity than the initial caliber of the
              \_ it didnt' take that shape in flight, but rather upon impact.
2005/4/29-5/3 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:37432 Activity:low
4/29    Anywere i can find a video clip of Airbus A380? thx
           Click on the Video's tab on the left hand side of the
           page. There are several videos.
           \_ Just out of curiousity, what are you hoping to see?
              \_ i am a geek who travels alot, happened to get excited
                 on any sort of new civil airliners :p  I am very excited
                 about Boeing 7E7/787 as well.
        \_ There will be plenty available after it crashes like the A330.
           \_ Nah Boeing will just bribe the US govt. to shoot one down. -John
2005/4/16-19 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:37224 Activity:kinda low
4/16    Quite decent article on why airline deregulation has blown major ass
        \_ How does making air travel more affordable "blow major ass"?
           \_ Cacelling pension obligations to keep the mediocre middle
              management of United in place is criminal for starters.
           \_ Wow, you didn't read the article.  What a surprise.
              \- that article has been classified as: ass. as in the case
                 of ca energy mkt the airline industry isnt totally
                 deregulated [and i am not suggesting it should be], but
                 there are some pretty unambiguously crazy regulations on
                 the books. YMWTGF: "wright amendment". a lot of the
                 allegation/evidence in the article have the flavor of
                 "there is a huge range of prices on torillas in SF. in fact
                 "there is a huge range of prices on tortillas in SF. in fact
                 i can buy a DVD player for the same amount $ as 15 packs
                 of torillas. isnt that crazy? there is a SF tortilla
                 of tortillas. isnt that crazy? there is a SF tortilla
                 conspiracy!". note: i am not taking a position on
                 airline dereg, just feel it isnt a good article.
                 BTW, if the source of the problem is mkr power [due to
                 BTW, if the source of the problem is mkt power [due to
                 mergers and concentration], that is a differnt problem
                 than dereg of prices. if you are more seriously interested
                 in IO analysis of airlines, look at something like Rand
                 Journal Econ. i dunno if they have free articles via WEEB.
                 they may be in something like JSTOR. ok tnx.
                 \_ Here's a quarter, go buy yourself a copy of Strunk
                    and White. Learn how to write in complete coherent
                 \_ (Restored) Here's a quarter, go buy yourself a copy of
                    Strunk and White. Learn how to post in coherent
                    sentences. And don't be a fucking ass and delete
                    my post or I'll nuke yours like I did last night,
                <stop deleting my posts, jerkwad, and learn how to spell
                 \_ Why did you delete the post from the guy suggesting you
                    obtain an elementary English usage book?  This post does
                    look like it was written by drunken English tourists (and
                    makes about as much sense.)  -John
                 \_ Industry consolidation is a direct result of deregulation.
                    It was even one of deregulations goals.
                       \- As indicated above, I think it is productive to
                          distinguish between price-deg of previously regulated
                          fair on air routes and a general change in how much
                          vigorousness the DoC/FTC antitrust people persue
                          mkt concentration issues.
                     <and also learn how to spell "pursue">
                 \_ By the way, potential knee-jerkers should note that this
                    isn't a Republican/Democrat thing - airline deregulation
                    was a Carter initiative.
2005/3/4-5 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:36531 Activity:moderate
3/4     A fully loaded 747 flies with only 3 engines:
        Now I wonder if it can fly with just 2 engines.
        \_ This is news?  This is the reason there are multiple engines.
           God you people are stupid.  Do you have any idea what "tolerances"
           and "redundancy" are?
           \_ The fact that it can fly with three engines is not news.  What's
              news is that the pilot decided to continue its flight to an
              airport 11 hours away instead of landing at a closer airport.
              Redundancy in this case should be used to ensure safety, not
              profit.  Redundancy of this magnitude being utilized means that
              there is little additional redundancy available for safety.
              \_ You know not of what you speak.  ask a pilot.  If the FAA
                 gave them the okay, I trust them more than you.  Ever seen
                 an engine failure on a trans-atlantic.  Go tell _that_ pilot
                 he should land.
                 \_ '"We are concerned," said Laura Brown, an FAA spokeswoman.'
                 \_ I won't tell your trans-atlantic pilot he should land, but
                    I'll tell him he should land at the closest usable airport.
        \_ Maybe they saved a lot of fuel with only 3 engines *shrug*
        \_ In other news, SJ 757 flies on one engine:
           \_ Bah, try zero (0) engines:
              \_ Thanks for sharing this, it's a really interesting article
                 \_ Wow, somebody on the motd is appreciative.  You're welcome!
                    \_ except for a few pathetic old farts who like to
                       make disparaging and caustic remarks (you know, t*m and
                       ily*s) most of us are actually pretty nice and
        \_ My guess is that it can cruise and land easily with two engines if
           there is a working one on each side, but it needs four to take off
           if it's fully loaded.
           \_ Your guess is wrong.  Almost stupid.
              \_ Okay, so what is right, then?  And what's your reasoning?
                 \_ You don't have 4 engines on a jet because you need the
                    power.  You have them because you are carrying people,
                    and mechanical parts can fail.
                    \_ Are you saying that a fully-loaded 747 doesn't need to
                       be at full-throttle when taking off?  And why most of
                       the jetliners don't have four engines?  Mechanical parts
                       on twin-engine jetliners don't fail?
                       \_ It doesn't need all 4 to take off, but if one failed
                          that early in the flight, they would more than
                          likely abort. And with your addition there, I'm
                          convinced you're just stupid.  Yes, twin-engine jets
                          have failures.  that's why they have 2 engines.
                          Again, if it failed on takeoff they would try to land
                          as soon and safely as possible.
                          \_ I think I get what you're saying.  You're saying
                             that 747s need only three engines while twin-
                             engine jetliners only need one engine, right?
                             \_ I'm not one of the posters above but
                                that sounds about right.
                                \_ I didn't know that a jetliner can safely fly
                                   with one working engine on one side and no
                                   working ones on the other side.
                                   \_ what engineer wouldn't put a safety
                                      margin on a plane where if one engine
                                      goes down, the whole plane goes down?
                                      \_ Engineers that designed single-engine
                                         planes. :-)
        \_ Just to make sure we all understand this correctly, the plane
           LANDED with three engines, then TOOK OFF again with three engines
           with a full load of passengers, because the captain thought it
           was ok?
        \_ Just to make sure we all understand this correctly, the plane also
           TOOK OFF with three engines with a full load of passengers, going
           from Singapore to London, because the captain thought it was ok?
2005/2/15 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:36184 Activity:high
        Yes, French engineering is superior (and did I tell you they make
        great looking things?) Anyone gonna fly the new Airbus?
        \_ Newer Airbus regional-flight planes > Older Boeing 737s
           Boeing 787 (on paper at least) > Huge new Airbus
        \_ Masterpiece of French engineering: Citroen
           \_ Actually, Citroen won the World Rally Championship last year.
              \_ Ford (Focus) was second. Draw your own conclusions.
              \_ Renault usually does pretty well in the WRC. However,
                 the production models are not nearly as nice as the
                 WRC models (cf Subaru/Mitsu)
        \_ And American corporations are superior -- Enron, Worldcom, etc.
           Anyone can fuck up building something, this is why statistics >>
           anecdotal evidence.
           \_ I'm glad you think so. So much so I think you should live
              in France permanently.
2005/1/19 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:35783 Activity:insanely high
1/18    Regarding the A380 airbus/French engineering troll... if I were to
        pick machineries based on reliability, branding, and engineering
        history, I'd pick in the following order:
                Japanese > German > American > French
        It's too bad that Germans and Japanese don't make aircrafts.
        They really know how to make machineries that are efficient
        and/or high performance. As for French engineering, when was
        the last time they built anything reliable and/or worth driving?
        Peugeot? Renault? No thanks.
        \_ Honda has always wanted to get into the aircraft engine
           business, and it has started doing it already:
                \_ I just saw the Honda Jet video, it is AWSOME!!! I LOVE IT.
        \_ German machines tend to be slick but fragile.
           \_ and I suppose Americans are much better? Say you got a 100 mile
              drive to a wedding/job interview, would you drive a 20 year old
              Pontiac or a 20 year old Mercedes?
              \_ You do know that JD Powers polled 293 problems per 100
                 Pontiacs after 3 years ownership, and 318 problems per
                 100 Mercedes Benzs in the same period.  The MB has fewer
                 initial quality problems (132 per 100 vehicls) than the
                 Pontiac (142 per 100), but the Caddy, which is more
                 comparable to the MB anyway, has just 103 initiali problems
                 per 100 vehicles, and just 209 after 3 years.  To back it
                 up with personal experience, the 2 MBs I've owned (ML320
                 and E430) are pure crap with electrical and vibrational
                 problems too numerous to list.
                 \_ The previous poster said 20-year-old Pontiacs and Mercedes,
                    not late model year ones.  20-year-old Mercedes are much
                    more likely to keep on running today than 20-year-old
                    Pontiacs.  I agree that today's low-end Mercedes are craps
                    for their price tags.
                    \_ Yes.  But I fail to see how the reliability of 20-
                       year-old cars applies to current German ability to
                       design and manufacture reliable machinary.  Low end?
                       A friend's SL500 dash lit up like a Christmas tree 2
                       hours after he picked up the car from the dealership.
                       "Dude, your check engine light is on... Now the empty
                       gas tank light too... What does *that* other light
                       mean?..." I had a great laugh over it and he was
                       pissed at me for a couple months.  Of course, he also
                       has the Land Rover that has never ran for 3 months in
                       a row, including the time when it would not go into
                       reverse, which made leaving a parking spot somewhat
                       \_ Mercedes has ran their reliability into the ground.
                          Who knows why this is, although I've seen (somewhat
                          troll-ish) claims that it is related to their move
                          into East German factories.  BMW seems to have
                          kept up to speed, however.  One factor here is that
                          car reliability is much higher than it has been in
                          the past, and the differences between makes is not
                          nearly as great as it used to be.  Car makers have to
                          work very hard to keep up their standards, and of
                          couse Lexus sets a very high bar indeed (too bad they
                          make such boring cars).
                          \_ As a BMW owner I can call their cars
                             'adequate'. The engine itself will run
                             forever, but everything else (including
                             transmission) is delicate. My BMW has been in
                             the shop more times in 3 years than my Honda
                             has in 10 years. I prefer the BMW because of
                             performance and styling, but that's it.
                          \_ The decline of Mercedes started with its merger
                             with Chrysler.
                             \_ But interestingly, Chrysler has had something
                                a comeback since the merger...
                                \_ which means, crappiness and quality are both
                                   conserved, and that Chrysler owns Mercedes,
                                   not the other way around?
           \_ Concur. Also, the Swedes are good engineers. What about the
              British? Certainly they made good planes in WW II.
              \_ Britian used to make passenger planes, but a very famous
                 set of myserious crashes in, the 50's (I think) ruined
                 them.  It turned out the metal they had used would
                 fatigue and eventually break off in flight.  They did,
                 however, figure out the cause via some very impressive
                 detective work, so they at once lost their reputation
                 fro building aircraft but gained one for good aviational
                 detecive work. I think the plane was called "the Comet."
                 Addendum: Here we go:
                 \_ Scotlandyard?
              \_ The Spitfire was the best fighter....
              \_ Our Boeing 747s use Rolls Royce engines.
           \_ Really?  I heard Volkswagon engines lasts a long time.
              \_ Volkwagen is near the bottom in reliability. German cars
                 are high performance, but break easily. Japanese are
                 durable. American cars are... uh...?
                 \_ Cheap. The world you are looking for is cheap.
        \_ German engineering is the best! Panzer >>> Shermans. V1/V2 rockets were
           state of the art. Their ME262 fighters flew faster than any WW2
           prop fighters. And they have the Autobahn, which tests German cars
           under great stress. I love German engineering. ALL HEIL GERMAN!!!!!
        \_ Airbus > Boeing (not a troll)
           \_ Yeah, Boeing never crashes their demo planes into the trees
              due to faulty design.  Airbus = r0x0rz!
           \_ The Airbus was foolproof. Basically, if you are 50 feet from the
              ground the computer assumes you're landing and takes over the
              throttle/controls and guides you to a gentle landing. During the
              Airbus demo, the pilots were instructed to make a low level pass
              from the ground (common aviation demo), and when they flew it,
              they flew 30 feet from the ground. The computer thought they're
              landing, and took over. So yes the Airbus is foolproof, the
              pilots are not.  P.S. All Boeings have an option to turn off
              fly-by-wire. None of the Airbuses have that option.
              \_ If you make something foolproof you will breed greater fools.
              \_ Trusting computers that completely is blatantly stupid.
                 \_ That is true, but trusting humans completely is even worse.
                    cf. the collison in Switzerland.  It really comes down to
                    a choice between trusting the people who designed the
                    plane/machine (ppl like you) and those who pilot them.
                    Contrary to popular myth, the latter are not that reliable.
                    Contrary to popular myth, the latter are not more reliable.
              \_ That's hilarious!  URL please?
        \_ as an engineer, I have reservations on the latest and greatest
           technology. First of all, the A380 is GIGANTIC so it requires
           longer runways and more complex systems to accomodate for its
           size. If there's a problem, you can only land in certain
           airports so if you have to reroute or land due to weather or
           mechanical problems, you're screwed. Secondly, big systems have
           more points of failure, and even when you add redundancy, they
           crash more catastrophically than smaller systems due to bigger
           mass and less available land (you can land small planes in a
           dessert, but with A380 you'll generate so much spark/fire and
           leakeage the chance of surviving is minimal.)
           Thirdly, big systems tend to be complex than smaller ones and
           in general complexity introduces new and unforeseen problems.
           Lastly, I just don't know enough about French engineering to
           really trust the A380.
           \_ Must be a really small plane or a really big dessert.
              \_ I prefer fudge sundaes, myself.
           \_ I knew people who adored American engineering, boarded a Boeing
              or MD, and migrated to the big aquarium.
2005/1/18-19 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:35772 Activity:very high
1/18    Would you want to fly (ride in) the A380?
        \_ There's something I've learned about the world of engineering.
           The first time a product is released to the public, there are
           always "kinks". Never be the first to try a certain product
           because those kinks will bite you. I certainly don't want to
           be the first to fly an A380.
        \_ Sure, depending on the price. Having a bed and a casino would
           certainly make flying more fun - like crossing on a ship
           used to be.
           \_ Yeah, dream on. Every time a bigger airplane is made, it's
              predicted that you'll have a bar and such on it. In the end,
              very very few airlines opt for such amenities, and most end up
              using every single inch of free space for passenger seats.
              \_ Well, this is what Virgin has announced.
                 \_ Virgin already has bars on its existing 747s.  However,
                    Virgin seats are pretty cramped, so it may not be the
                    best trade off.
                    \_ Personally, I'd rather have comfortable seats and have
                       my drinks there ..
        \_ will they be able to fill the planes?  800 people a plane?
           500 people a plane?
           \_ They're only intended for long-distance, high-traffic routes, so
        \_ new Terrorist weapon released?
           \_ why not 747?
                \_ cuz it's the old terrorist weapon
        \_ not for Airbus, hell no. First of all I don't trust their
           record. In 1998 during a demonstration flight, due to a bug
           in their fly-by-wire software the then new A320 crashed into
           trees. Secondly I don't trust Airbus management. After the
           the Habsheim debacle, Airbus recovered the blackbox (they
           don't have NTSB equivalent) and actually SWITCHED the black
           box to cover up their mistakes (gotta make stockholders happy):
           Thirdly, I just don't trust French men and their snobby
           "I am better than you" attitude. I certainly would not fly
           in a plane designed by French men and flown by French
           \_ This is a long shot, but I played around with A320 model and
              747 model in AeroFlyProDeluxe (R/C flight sim), which is
              supposed to be very physics accurate, and I found A320 to be
              far worse in many aspects, such as handling, response, and
              stall reaction.
           \_ Yeah, only Americans are allowed to have that "I am better
              than you" attitude.
           \_ But your modest "I am better than French men" attitude is just
              \_ I wonder if he would fly in a plane designed by himself
                 and flown by himself?  Probably not.
                 \_ Not sure about op, but I would fly in a plane that I
                    designed b/c there is a snowballs chance in hell that
                    any plane I designed would actually leave the ground.
           \_ Do you still call them Freedom Fries?
              \- one of the standards used for eval new aircrafts is called
                 ETOPS which stands for extended range twin-engine operations.
                 there is a joke it really stands for "engines turn or passen-
                 gers swim". if memory serves boeing wanted to move to faster
                 cetification for things like over large bodies of water
                 flights after they switch to heavy computer design ... i think
                 for the 757.
2005/1/17 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:35751 Activity:high
        Why I think this is a stupid idea. You usually have one point of
        entry and exit per plane, and the time for all the passengers
        to get on/off the plane increases greatly with 500 passengers.
        Second point. Say you fly 1 plane that hauls 500 passengers vs.
        5 planes that haul 100 passengers. If there's malfunction on the
        jumbo 500 seater plane, you're fucked, but you still have options
        when you have 4 other planes. In short, I think the bigger
        something is the dumber it is.            -csua armchair pilot
        \_ But with 5 planes, your overall failure rate is multiplied
           by 5. Anyway I think Boeing's 7E7 Dreamliner thing is more
           interesting. Their idea is that people want to go direct,
           not always get routed through giant hubs. Although I think
           most people will still put up with hubs if it's noticably cheaper.
        \_ Is your 100 passenger airplane overall operating cost 1/5 of
           the 500 passenger version?  I would think it would cost a lot
           more to operate 5 100-passenger airplane across the Atlantic
           vs. 1 500-passenger airplane.
           \_ It would cost a lot more to operate a 500 passenger plane
              filled with 200 passengers than it would be to operate 2
              100 passenger planes. How many routes do you think have
              that kind of demand or the ability to service a jet that
2004/12/29 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:35486 Activity:very high
        Laser directed into jet's cockpit and "air traffic controllers
        used radar to determine the laser came from a residential area".
        How does the radar determine the source of the laser? They're
        totally different. Someone please explain.
        \_  I'm not saying this is what happened, but if these words were
            randomly formed out of thin air in the mind of some dingbat
            journalist it wouldn't be anywhere near the dumbest fiction
            I've read in the news.  If you go to and read
            various random links, the ones that mention the use of radar as
            you describe all have *identical* wording, while quite a few
            do not mention radar at all.  That's often a symptom of dingbat
            journalist syndrome.
        \_  If they knew where exactly the plane was when it got hit,
            and they knew what color the laser was, they could figure
            out how far away it was fired at the jet from, and could then
            figure out where it was fired from, approximately.
            \_ What does color have to do with it?
            \_ Obviously the only reasonable response is to bomb the
               residential area.  How many planes have to fall out of
               the sky before we let the airlines defend their property?
        \_ Perhaps they drew a straight line from the tail down through the
           nose of the plane.  The orientation is at the moment the pilots
           reported being painted.  The radar gives the position of the plane.
           The line intersects with the residential area.
2004/12/7-8 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:35195 Activity:very high
         Rethinking traditional ideas of road and traffic design (the Dutch
         model).  Has anybody actually seen this work?  Does it mean faster
         trip times overall?  I remember always driving down Milvia in
         preference to Shattuck; the bumps and occasional stop signs were
         far more pleasant than lane changing and stop lights.
         \_ Not entirely relevant, but the Dutch are the worst drivers in the
            world.  They're like Italians but without determination.  -John
         \_ I did stuff like that a lot too.  The LA version of this is
              'stay off the freeways.' -- ilyas
            \_ ilyas, you seem to hate LA, and you seem to hate UCLA. Why
               don't you move somewhere you like (better school, better
               environment, etc) instead of bitching every day? I mean, this
               is a free country, you can do almost anything you want.
              \_ The motd will now be nuked in a temper tantrum in 5..4..3..
               \_ You seem really smart, can I learn from you? -- ilyas
         \_ Yeah, I much prefer the Bike Route roads to major thoroughfares.
            In Inner and Outer Sunset in the City, roads like this have extreme
            advantages over their more congested, light-regulated cousins.
2004/11/15-16 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:34907 Activity:kinda low
11/15   I got a ticket for 92 in a 65. Won't give me traffic school because
        of that extra 2mph I think. How screwed am I with that on my record?
        Besides losing my good driver insurance thing.
        \_ I think that's 1 point because you are 8 shy of 100 (where it is
           automatic 2 points and traffic misdemeanor - also traffic school
           ineligible - i know cuz that was my frist ticket)
        \_ As long as you didn't get written up for "reckless driving"
           I think you are okay. -IANAL
2004/11/10 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:34815 Activity:nil
        Bionic Dolphin, BionicDolphin, I want one for Christmas!
2004/11/7-8 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:34734 Activity:moderate
11/7    Does anyone know if police departments have records of where officers
        were patrolling on a given day? In particular, I'd like to know if
        a particular traffic cop only bothers to patrol a certain area during
        certain time periods (e.g., the opening weeks of school when people
        might not be sure whether school has started yet). Thanks.
        \_ Oakland PD lists beat cops by zone on their website.
        \_ And they would release this information to you because??
           \_ Because it would probably be a public record?
              \_ So you can hunt down and kill the nice officer who gave you
                 a ticket?  Ooh ooh ooh- and let's publish photos of the
                 undercover narc squad!
                 \_ Cops on patrol are usually given callsigns when they check
                    in to work.  Names are never used.  The call-sign-to-
                    name-for-that-night association is likely logged at the
                    communication center.         -POC
                    communication center and not on a public website.    -POC
                 \_ Umm, since most cops do tend to patrol certain areas,
                    it's not like I couldn't hunt him down if I really wanted
                    to. It's also not like he doesn't go to the police station
                    once in a while and I couldn't follow him from there.
                    But I just want to find evidence to discredit him with
                    so I can get out of this lame ticket, okay? Thanks.
                    \_ I predict that if you rephrase the question in terms
                       of getting out of the ticket you will get more useful
                       responses.  What sort of ticket?
                       \_ I seriously thought this was implied. Anyway, it
                          was an illegal U-turn ticket. The sign had some
                          lame conditions like "7-9 AM, 1-3 PM, school days
                          only". It was near the beginning of September, and
                          I don't think I should be responsible for knowing
                          exactly when their school year starts.
                          \_ Ignorance is seldom a credible defense in the
                             eyes of the courts.  -POC
                          \_ I think you should be responsible for knowing.
                             Whether or not the violation should be pardoned is
                             another story.
2004/10/22-24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:34298 Activity:low
10/22   Recommendation for real-time internet traffic and outage reports?
        \_ ping.  :-)
        \_ You have to register, though.
2004/10/15 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:34140 Activity:nil
10/14   I Can Fly (Mil Photos)
2004/9/16 [Transportation/Airplane, Recreation/Food] UID:33561 Activity:high
9/16    How does Hooters manage to hire only chicks with hot boobs as
        waitresses and yet avoid discrimination lawsuits?
        \_ It's legal to discriminate on physical appearance if it is necessary
           to the performance of the job.  Being hot is not a requirement to
           be a waitress.  However, being hot is a requirement to perform the
           Hooters waitress job, and looking presentable is a requirement for
           most customer service jobs.
           \_ uh, what if you're a racist and you open up a steak house and
              decide to hire only white chicks to preserve the tradition?
           \_ Uhm, no. Hooters was sued by a number of men and they settled
              out of court. The EEOC investigated the matter for four years,
              but they dropped the matter since nobody really cared. So
              it's still undecided (since none of the cases made it to
              court) on whether or not Hooters really can get away with
              this sort of thing. They can basically discriminate until
              someone else files a suit against them and it actuallly makes
              it to court. Please refrain on commenting on things you don't
              know anything about.
              \_ An employer can discriminate based on appearance. This
                 has been upheld many times from beards at Disneyland to
                 tattoos and piercings. The policy needs to be applied
                 consistently and comply with EEO guidelines with regards
                 to race, sex, religion, etc. Even discriminating by age
                 is acceptable in some instances.
                 \_ Again, no. You are being overly general. An employer
                    may or may not discriminate based on appearance depending
                    on what jurisdiction the business is in and what type of
                    business it is. It varies from
                    state to state and the Federal Government has been
                    unclear about this issue. There hasn't been a big enough
                    case to go to the courts to determine this issue once and
                    for all since most of the suits are settled out of court.
                    Since most likely no employer is going to overtly say
                    that they didn't hire so-and-so because of their looks
                    (they would be really stupid to do so) it's also a
                    somewhat difficult case to litigate, and there aren't
                    any real federal statutes on this yet.
                    \_ People have been fired (or threatened to be fired)
                       based on appearance. Again, an example was beards
                       at Disneyland. This is allowed. Go look at the EEO
                       web site to see what kinds of discrimination are
                       allowed and in what instances.
                 \_ At Disneyland, you're hired as an actor for a part.
                    \_ Exactly. This is a perfect example of being able to
                       discriminate based on appearance. The women at
                       Hooter's are not hired for their waitressing
                       skills. However, if one is fired for being Muslim
                       then she has a case.
                       \_ The burka might pose a problem for working at
           \_ I've never been to Hooters.  Do the waitress actually do more
              with their bodies than merely walking around and showing off?
              And I thought even the showing-off part is just unwritten mutual
              understanding between the waitress and the employer, not written
              \_ Depends a lot on the location, but quite honestly, Hooters
                 is just the right speed for married guys who don't want to
                 cheat, but want to act "bad" for a while. Some Hooters had
                 waitresses play Twister, and it works for some, others not.
                 \_ Cf. Coyote Ugly Saloon in NYC. You can look, but you know
                    you can't touch. Very relaxing, really.
        \_ How much do Hooters waitresses get paid?
           \_ I don't know, but most waitress jobs get shit for salary and make
              their living off tips.  I'd assume tips are even more important
              at a place like that.
              \_ Which is exactly why Hooters doesn't have to worry too much
                 about guys applying. They'll get no tips. Go Capitalism!
                 \_ Cf. Chippendale's.
        \_ I know that airline stewardess have gotten uglier and uglier by
           the generation. Either it's the junk food or the system.
           \_ It used to be a very glamorous job. Flying was such a
              luxury. Now you are stuck serving soda to a family from Des
              Moines. I assume that salaries are also lower now,
              contributing to cheaper tickets.
              \_ It seems just from observation that what young cuties there
                 are are stuck flying crappy domestic routes, and old
                 battleaxes get the "glamorous" international routes.
                 Sometimes you find someone hot with language skills on
                 international flights.  First/business stewardesses tend to
                 be more attractive too.
                 \_ It must be that stewardess get to choose the routes based
                    on seniority.
                    \_ Yep, I assume so.  Damn unions.
           \_ That's only US airlines.  Try Singapore Airline or JAL, where
              discrimination against ugly applicants are still legal.
              \_ Emirates Air has by far the best eye candy.  The Singapore
                 girls are also very nice.  I once flew Air NZ with some
                 significantly cute attendants, and one Auda flight had
                 a model-quality attendant.  Small sample size on those
              \_ I agree, Singapore Air ladies are nice to look at.  The
                 uniforms are pretty cool too.
              \_ Yes, it's only the US airlines. Damn those unions.
2004/9/3 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:33318 Activity:high
9/3     Informal Poll: What has been peoples' experiences with Berkeley traffic
        courts?  Did you contest? Did the officer show up? Attitude of the
        judge, formality, etc...
        \_ Had to appear in a Berkeley traffic court over a fixit ticket that
           I inadvertently forgot to pay (broken taillight cover).  I was the
           last one in the dock.  The judge was a VERY mean old man with a
           disconcerting lazy eye.  He ripped into everyone that appeared
           before him, handing out harsh sentences left and right.  Then there
           was me.  Basically he took my story at face value and gave me a $75
           dollar fine...I have no evidence of this, but since I was the only
           white guy there I have a feeling I was benefitting from someone's
           \_ Idiot.  You got a $75 fine for a $10 fixit ticket.  That was
              the most he was able to do to you, dumb white-guilt white boy.
                \_ When the last black man leaves the bus, it always erupts
                   into a big party ...
        \_ If you contest it you're going to blow more time,
           your 1st appearance in traffic court is to enter your plea,
           your trial will be scheduled for another day.   the above
           only white man in berkeley poster didn't make it to the trial
           phase, it won't be the same judge.  it sucks that just
           to contest, you're going to waste your entire day, first
           you have to arrive extremely early in the morning to sign
           up for walk-in court, then the judge hears everyone's pleas
           in the afternoon, and your case gets called in a random
           order, unless you don't speak English, in which case
           all of the non English speaking people cases get heard
           first so their interpreters can go home quickly.  That
           might be a good scam and would save your time. - danh
2004/8/10-12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:32817 Activity:high
8/10    Where can I find the cheapest fare from here to Vancouver Canada?
        Travelocity gives me $200 for a roundtrip but I wonder if there are
        low fare or commuter airlines serving this route.
        \_  priceline.  I just got 180$ roundtrip fron nyc to oakland on
        \_ where is "here?"
           \_ Berkeley?
        \_ By the way, $200 non-stop from California to Vancouver is a
           good fare. How much less do you expect to pay?
           \_ I am hoping to get some thing just slightly above the fare
              between here and LA.  I thought maybe many people commute
              between bay area and Vancouver.  -- op
              \_ While I'm sure sales happen, I've never done better than 200.
              \_ You're not going to get a much better price. The dozens of
                 flights between Bay Area to LA especially those from low-fare
                 specialist Southwest make the market very competitive. The
                 SFBA <-> YVR is nowhere near that hot.
                 \_ How cheap do SFBA <-> LA tickets get?  What's typical?
                    \_ SWA has $39 one-way 7-day advance purchase regularly
                       and $98 day-of-purchase. Typical is about $75 one-way
                       with some advance notice.
           \_ I don't think any LCCC flies SFBA and YVR, so there is no
              reason for the fare to be low.  That said, I've done SFO-YVR
              for < $150 before.  That fare exists occasionally.  I noticed
              that UAL has a OAK-SEA fare for $123.  You can do that if you
              willing to drive to Vancouver.
              \_ Fares from here to SEA tend to be much cheaper than those to
                 YVR (among other things, YVR is a private airport, and I was
                 given to understand that the airport charges the airlines
                 substantially more than the average). Often the cheapest
                 option is flying to SEA and taking a bus (~3-4 hrs) to
                 Vancouver proper. If you want much cheaper than that...
                 Well, there's craigslist rideshare... and hitchhiking...
                 \_ YVR also charges passengers directly -- you have to pay
                    an "airport improvement fee" of 10 CAD every time you fly
                    from there to the US.
                 \_ RIDE BIKE!
                    \_ Well, it is only 140 miles.  It might be a pretty nice
                       bikeride, depending on the roads.  That's really pretty
                       \_ I've driven it and it is mountainous. It would
                          take a long time on a bike.
2004/8/8-9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:32770 Activity:very high
8/8     Has anyone done traffic school via the Internet?  How long does
        it typically take?  Recommedations [for SF]?
        \_ In SF, don't you have to take an inperson test at a UPS store or something?
        \_ Also you can only go to approved online traffic schools:
        \_ About 2 hours. I forgot which one I did (just randomly chose
           one off of the list of allowable places). It was great: fast,
           quick, and very easy.
           \_ Most of them also let you save your progress, so I did just
              a little at a time over three days while watching TV, piece
              of cake.
        \_ I went with  It's supposed to take
           about 8 hours, and they actually time your progress to prevent you
           from skimming- this just means you're watching TV in between
           skimming.  Nice site layout, fairly engaging content.  Customer
           service was fair, took them a few days to resolve my complaint but
           it happened.
        \_ My brother did this a few months ago. He said it took about
           2 hrs total. He did it during his lunch hour over two days.
        \_ I used, it was easy.  I don't remember
           exactly how long it took, but 2 hours sounds reasonable.
           They allow you to save and come back, so I spread it out a
           little bit.  The final test had errors in it though.
        \- i did this as well. i just loaded all the pages in different tabs
           so that i could skip to the tests. i surfed the web for about 5-10
           minutes between some of the page loads. i probably spent 30
           minutes on the site itself, but time elapsed was about an hour.
                \_ partha is that you?                          psb #1 fan
                   \_ you are not the psb #1 Fan.  pick your own #.
                   \_ no, the \- was a slip. but thanks for the compliment.
                        - psb #17 fan.
        \_ gf got ticket in San Mateo County. I went online and took her
           test for her, 40 minutes (includes registration time). Damn easy.
           \_ What did you get for doing that? ;)
           \_ They didn't check ID?
        \_ what is the purpose of this line?
           \_ maintaing the horizontalness of the motd.
           \_ It's purpose is to prompt question like these.
                \_ its
           \_ This is a bad sign: she is lazy, irresponsible, and evasive of
              unpleasant tasks.  Dump her NOW!!!
2004/7/20-21 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:32388 Activity:nil
        In Soviet Russia, we do air rage against you.
        \_ jeezus christ, that's scary--here's why:  I was planning to post
           the same link with the same tagline.  need to get out more.
        \_ If you've been to Russia as a tourist, you'll be grateful for
           simply bad, inconsiderate service.  Service staff there manage
           to take the fight to the customer.  -John
2004/7/19-20 [Transportation/Airplane, Computer/Networking] UID:32364 Activity:high
7/19    Cringley's plan to use WiFi in the Sky:
        \_ Who exactly is this guy?
           \_ uh, you dont know? I had always kind of assumed that posting
              "I, Cringley" articles was like posting links to slashdot
              \_ I always assumed he was some guy reporting on pseudo geek
                 news or something from the article titles but, no, not really.
                 Should I care what this guy says about anything?  Does he have
                 some fantastic track record for predicting technology trends
                 or is he just trendy?
                 \_ No one has a fantastic record for predicting technology
2004/7/15-16 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Law/Court, Reference/Military] UID:32304 Activity:low
7/15    Help, I just bought an 8 year old Cherokee Archer and now AOPA
        wouldn't stop spamming me (snail mail and email) unless I joined their
        organization. I called them up to get it stopped but it's not
        working. What should I do?
        \_ Autoforward all their email back to one of their own addresses
           with a rewritten header telling them to stop sending this stuff to
           you.  Whether or not they stop won't matter since you won't see the
           email.  Snail mail you burn.  It's free firewood.
        \_ Send a certified letter demanding they cease all postal and email
           contact or you will sue for harassment.
           \_ Does that work? Under what conditions can you sue for harassment
              based on annoying letter and email spam?  How hard is it to
              actually win something like this?
              \_ While it would be a PITA to sue them, thet'd probably take the
        \_ That's a $140K airplane. How often do you use it to justify the
           \_ And that's any of your business because...?  Maybe one flight
              was enough to justify it to him.  There IS a wider world outside
              your own head, you know.
              \_ I am just curious. Maybe *I* want to buy a plane, too.
                 It's none of your business to ask why I want to know.
                 \_ *shrug*  fair enough.
           \_ And do you have a Middle Eastern last name?  Get the DHS on this
              one stat!
           \_ EIGHT year old plane costs $140K? How about a new one?
              \_ $205K + options, which can reach $235K+
                 \_ Options?  Can you get dubs on an airplane?  Preferably with
                    spinners?  How about custom exhaust?
                        \_ Don't forget random Azn characters. Each one
                           adds hp +5.
                           \_ How much for an NO2 sticker?
                              \_ And a clear case with neon lights?!  I want
                                 plane m0dz!
2004/7/6-7 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:31189 Activity:very high
7/7     Given that Southwest is consistently 50% cheaper than United and
        JetBlue, why would anyone wanna fly the more expensive airlines?
        \_ Several years back, I used a friend's voucher to fly OAK>MDW
           (ie., Chicago). What was otherwise a 4-hr. flight/no stops
           took 8 hr./3 stops! Never again.
           \_ This was just a shitty flight to take. I flew SW non-stop to
              Saint Louis for 1/3 the price of the next most expensive
              fare. If you want 15 stops to save money the experience will
              suck on any airline. SW does offer non-stop to many places.
        \_ I go with whatever priceline coughs up, based on price.  I fly
           for consistently way less than *any* one airline could provide
           to really expensive destinations.
        \_ Because the last time I checked, they weren't that much
           cheaper and I got treated like a cow with their FCFS seating.
        \_ Because I hate having to squabble for a good seat.
        \_ First come first served sux as a seating system. Esp. if you
           have an extra carry on or you connection is a bit late.
           \_ As compared to the other airlines, where they seat you
              according to how many miles you fly with them?
              \_ yeah mileage perks are great if you actually fly much.
                 and if not, the minor points don't really matter so much
                 to your quality of life.
              \_ If you check in early enough, you can always get a
                 decent seat. I usually arrive at least 30 mins before
                 checkin is supposed to start and I've never had a
                 problem getting a good seat.
        \_ One time I ended up being the last person boarding a Southwest
           flight because I made a mistake of arriving only one hour before the
           flight and passing through security people took a very long time
           (this was shortly after 9/11). The only seat that was still available
           in the whole plane was next to some fat guy who was so big, he
           could have used two seats. Needless to say, this flight was
           really uncomfortable..
           flight because I made a mistake of arriving only one hour before
           the flight and passing through security people took a very long
           time (this was shortly after 9/11). The only seat that was still
           available in the whole plane was next to some fat guy who was so
           big, he could have used two seats. Needless to say, this flight
           was really uncomfortable.
           \_ That someone had to sit next to the fat person is the fault of
              no one but the fat person (or agruably the airline for not
              forcing him to buy 2 tickets).  That you were the person sat
              next to the fat person was a result of something arguably under
              your control (arriving late).
              \_ Choices, choices... fat person, crying child, smelly person,
                 evangelist, or someother odious habited person... It happens.
                 \_ This could have happened no matter which airline. In
                    fact, being able to choose who you sit next to is an
                    advantage in Southwest's favor.
                    \_ Southwest has a much lower class of traveller than
                       reserved airlines.
                       \_ Yes, because it's CHEAPER! Sigh. If you want the
                          cheap flight full of hot skinny floozies, take the
                          SWA Friday evening flight out of LA to Vegas.
                          Otherwise, whining is pointless.
        \_ By the way, I have noticed that if you purchase the ticket well
           in advance (say two to four weeks before the flight), AmericaWest
           tickets are almost always cheaper AND you get to choose your
        \_ Because... SWA doesn't go everywhere. Someone else is paying and/or
           you want to get the miles from the airline. SWA may not have a
           convenient schedule. Feel more comfortable with brand name. etc.
        \_ Flying out of Oakland is a hassle.
           \_ Not of you're living near Oakland (like Berkeley). It takes
              longger to get to SFO, even with SFO Bart extension.
              \_ Sure, if you live in Berkeley. I live in San Francisco,
                 near a BART station. I can get to SFO in 20 minutes.
                 Oakland takes 1 hr+ and involves dealing with the Air
                 BART shuttle, which is kind of a pain. Once on Thanksgiving,
                 the line was so long I waited almost an hour for it.
                 But I still fly SWA when I have the time and I want
                 to save money.
                 \_ oh really?  24th and Mission to SFO is 24 minutes on
                    BART, and that doesn't count your time getting to BART,
                    or having to take the monorail on the other side unless
                    you're flying international (which you're not if you're
                    flying SWA).
                 \_ Which is why SFO was trying so hard to attract the
                    low-fare Virgin-brand airline.
                    \_ The last time I flew into Oakland, I arrived just
                       after midnight... just after AirBart stopped running.
                       Even though bart trains themselves run past one in
                       the morning these days.  I hate AirBart.
           \_ Interesting. I always found Oakland to be most convenient,
              whether I am going to SF, East Bay, or even Sonoma/Napa. SFO
              sucks and San Jose is too far.
           \_ Oakland is GREAT. I say that because I fly LAX<->OAK and
              relative to LAX, OAK is really fast, efficient, easy to get
              around, cheaper parking, smaller terminals, etc. LAX is
              impossible. Long lines, expensive parking, crowded, hard
              to get around, etc. LAX sucks.
        \_ Oakland is great but flying into LAX sucks. JetBlue flies into
           LongBeach and is often cheaper than SWA. You also get your own TV
           and biscotti.
        \_ w/ mileage status i found LAX easier than OAK on united since
           there were plenty of express lines and self-checkin counters
           in LAX terminal 6 and relatively fdirect taxi access.
        \_ JetBlue is awesome, especially when you're flying between coasts
           and get a direct flight for about the same as what SWA would
           charge you for a 1-2 stop flight. Having (free) TV on the plane is
           a good way to pass the time.
2004/7/2 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:31120 Activity:kinda low
7/1     Battlefield Vietnam is AWSOME AWSOME AWSOME! Nice dense forest where
        you can hide, vehicles slow down in muddy terrain, good jungle
        sound, GREAT graphics in the airplane/helicoptor, etc. They
        should've charged $70 for the game.
        \_ Do you get to take 3 scratches in 4 months, go home, tell lies
           about those left behind and call yourself a war hero 30 years
           later?  That would be "AWSOME!" and worth $70.
           \_ No, better! You get to remain a pencil-necked geek who takes
              potshots at people who actually risked their lives in war!
              Dood, yr AWSOME!
           \_ The man VOLUNTEERED for VIETNAM. He REQUESTED hazardous
              (relative to sitting on a carrier) swift boat duty. He
              risked his life under fire to save his men. Fuck off,
2004/6/21 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:30940 Activity:high
6/21    Private space flight: (
        \_ stupid comments about hating everything deleted.  violation of
           the waste of bits laws of physics.
           \_ Why do you hate physics?
              \_ I don't.  I love physics.  That's why I'm protecting the laws
                 of physics from bit wasting motd posts.  I even got a "P" in
                 Physics 10!
2004/4/10-12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13131 Activity:high
4/10    Does anyone have any information on or experiences with Thai
        Airways Intl? Are they reliable/safe? Thanks.
        \_ Most of their pilots are trained in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia.
           Take offs: ok.  Steering: excellent.  Landing: not so good.
        \- helo i have flown thai a number of times. in the last few yrs
           they have more or less consciously modelled themselves after
           singapore airlines, i.e. big focus on in-air service.
           as for safety, you may wish to see:
           [i missed SQ 006 by a little bit ... switched to SQ 002]
           If you are scared to fly a major airlines like this, you should
           just kill yourself. However, I wouldnt blame you for being a bit
           nervous on say Sita Air [where the pilot's GPS was from Sharper
           Image] and there was more weight in beer in the cabin than people.
                \_ yeah, "major airline". maybe I should just kill myself.
                   \- I hope you have a good flight and then get SARS. --psb
                      \_ but SARS has a low fatality rate.
                      \_ That is quite mean.
                      \_ wow partha that is the most malicious I've ever
                         seen you.
                         \- you all should get together and have a CircleCough
        \_ I've flown Thai Airways several times, as have many of my ex-pat
           friends.  The planes are modern and safe, the pilots fly smoothly,
           and the flight attendants are wonderfully polite and an absolute
           joy to look at. Business class is better than Economy, of course,
           but Thai Air's Economy is better than the steerage you'll find on
           Northwest. --erikred
           \_ Thai girls... mmmm... yummy....
              \_ Ummm... you know those are really guys... right?
                        \_ At least we still have Singapore girls.
                 \_ When guys start looking *that* good I'm going queer.
                    \_ Most of them are post-op, so it's not really that queer.
                       \_ Pre, post, whatever.  Hot is hot.
                          \_ Does retrofit vagina feel as good as real vagina?
                          \_ Pre, post, queer is queer.
                             \_ mesmerized by the pattern. must post.
                                \_ he's just jealous that he'll never be as hot
           Image] --psb
                                   as the other Thai girls.  his surgeon sucks.

        \_ if any more of this stuff is posted directly to the motd instead of
           as a url somewhere it'll be toasted instantly with no further
           warning.  post a link to his site.  if he cant then make one for
           him and post it.  but stop abusing the motd with endless lengthy
           ramblings from this one guy.
        \_ ok, look.  If you're reallly reporting straight from Iraq to the
           motd that's pretty cool, but could you PLEASE provide context for
           these posts?  Are you in the army?  marines?  a contractor? tourist?
           where are you?
           \_ he mentioned Flur in another post, which probably means he's
              constructing infrastructure of some kind (I see mention of water<
              and electrical in central/south iraq) -chialea
           \_ civilian contractor working on iraq reconstruction. (our camp
              -fluor daniel-is located within camp taji)
        \_ This is the equivelent of political spam.  Instead of posting
           this whole guys blog here, why not just provide a link and let
           us read it ourselves?
        \_ Kinney is a contractor.  This is from one of his emails.  He does
           not have a web site.  Don't delete this. -dans
        \_ 4/11  [ I said, no spam, bitch.  Just post a link ]
2004/4/9 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13111 Activity:nil
4/9     Radar clocks Mini Cooper at mach 3:
        \_ Equiped with Mini-Twin Rocket Pack(c) and Dual Enhanced Thruster
           System(c) while pointed straight downwards after being dropped from
           orbit by ESA launch vehicle last June.
        \_ I wonder how much an outfit like Mini might pay for that sort of
                                            \_ BMW
2004/4/8-9 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13086 Activity:nil
4/7     Any recommendations for bay area travel agents? Like to book
        tickets/trip to Hawaii for August of this year.
        Hoping to beat the online prices. Thanks.
        \_ Doubtful you can beat those. Try to consolidator airlines for the
           best deals, but not exactly the best service.
                \_ What are consolidator airlines?
           \_ Any recommendations for online sites, then?
              Tried united, aloha air, hawaii air, yahoo travel, expedia...
             \_ Also try suntrips (  They always have
                great airfare and package deals to Hawaii and Mexico.
                Also check out their advertised specials in the chronicle.
                -- sky
              \_ i'd try travel agencies that cater to the chinese crowd.
                 they seem to have pretty decent deals.  check your local
                 chinese newspaper for ads.  of course, it helps if you
                 speak and read the right lingo.
2004/4/4-6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13011 Activity:nil
4/4     Any opinions (good/bad) on
        \_ I just finished and it
        \_ I just finished and it
           was really simple and easy. Let's you work on it whenever
           you feel like it. For an extra fee I had them fedex my cert
           to me. I started it on Thursday night, did some more Friday
           night, finished Saturday morning. I had my cert in hand on
           Monday morning and mailed it off to Court right away.
        \_ I took it, it was easy. I finished it too late
           and even though they say they mail your completion
           certificate to your court, they mailed mine to me.
           So it ended up not counting, but I don't really
           blame it on them. I should not have waited until
           the very last possible moment to complete it.
           \_ did you know most courts offer a 10-14 day grace period?
              as long as the cert says it was completed by the due date
              you can still mail it in a couple days later.
2004/3/25-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Airplane] UID:12869 Activity:high
3/25    I got a ticket for running a stop sign [around midnight in SF ...
        (no traffic)].  The cop claimed I didnt even slow down but went
        throught it at 30mph.  I may have not done a full stop, but what
        he is claiming is totally wrong.  This is hopeless to argue and I
        should just do traffic school, right?
        \_ Do a trial by written declaration. I got out of a red light ticket
           in SF. The cop claimed that I "totally" ran a red light and he
           even saw the camera light flash. I checked with the city and there
           was no camera in the direction I was driving so I wrote and said
           that the cop must have been either distracted or something, because
           no such flash could have gone off... he was a jerk anyway for giving
           me a ticket even though he thought that I'd get a second one in the
           \_ concur with this respondent, do this.
              \_ Unfortunately there were two cops in the car for one thing
                 and I'm sure they would back each other up.  And the best
                 I could say is "I live around here, so of course I would
                 have known there was a STOP there."  I can't "prove" something
                 like you could about the camera.
        \_ i tried to get out of a california stop in berkeley several years
           ago, no luck.
        \_ Your best bet is to ask for a hearing in traffic court and hope
                \_ this isnt a "best bet" but "rolling the dice". and
                   considering you dont know what your 'saving throw' roll
                   is, this doesnt seem a great thing to bet on. is the cop
                   not showing up probability 50% or 5% or ... ? anyone have
                   some guess about the base rate on a no show? --psb
                   \_ Whoah. "saving throw", Partha? You must be as old as I am
                      or older. -- ulysses
                      \_ Because kids today don't play d&d, they play magic?
                      \_ why is that old?  a bunch of 13 year old proto dorks
                         play D&D at the cafe by my house.
                         \_ I see. Please forgive my ignorance. I really was
                            under the impression that rolling dice, indexing
                            damage tables and all that had been replaced by
                            more automated modes of play like card decks and
                            software. Then again, my last attempt an an RPG
                            session was coming on a decade ago. -- ulysses
                            \_ nope, new charts, new tables, same dice.
                      \_ Hell, Ulysses, being older than you isn't that hard.
                         Or rare.
                            \_ True. I think my issue is that I didn't know how
                               old Partha is, though. Then again, Sandy
                               or somebody else probably did tell me at some
                               point.  -- ulysses
                               \_ Old... old like the hills... old.
                   \_ If you are just going to ask the judge for traffic
                      school if they show, the risk is low. There is a tiny
                      chance the judge will say no and fine you I guess,
                      but most likely they will just accept your plea.
                      school if they show, the risk is low. There is a
                      tiny chance the judge will say no, I guess, but most
                      likely they will just accept your plea.
                      \_ I'm not trying to offend you, but do you know
                         this because you worked for a city gov or your
                         brother-in-law is a cop or...
                         \_ I could claim any reason, since this is an
                            anonymous forum. Let's just say that I know
                            plenty of lawyers, including a couple in my
                      \_ I'm not trying to offend you, but do you know
                            family. This is the "standard way" to fight
                            a traffic ticket. Pay a lawyer $100 to tell
                            you the same thing if it makes you feel better.
                   \_ CA cops almost always show so don't depend on that.
                         \_ I see.  It's always CHP busting me, not locals. tx.
                         this because you worked for a city gov or your
                         brother-in-law is a cop or...
                   \_ CA cops almost always show so don't depend on that.
                      \_ Not true. CHP almost always show, but for city cops,
                         it depends on the locality. I dunno for SF.
                         \_ This is true; my brother has beaten tix in CA by
                            counting on local PD not to show.
                         \_ I see.  It's always CHP busting me, not locals. tx.
           that he doesn't show up. If he shows, then just ask for traffic
           school. If you really want to be clever, if he shows, you can
           ask for a continuation, saying your lawyer didn't show, and then
           try and reschedule for when the officer is on vacation or something
           but you are on pretty thin ice here. I would just plead guilty
           at that point and ask for traffic school.
        \_ If your dad is the president or head of the CIA, you can have all
           charged dropped.
           \_ Wow! That worked! Thanks! -op
           \_ What if I belong to a powerful political MA dynasty and I left
              a woman to drown to death in my car in a lake?  Can I still be
              a Senator?
              \_ Or if you abandon your children (ie not pay child support)
                 after you abandoned your wife and she divorced you, and
                 you lead a charge to champion "family values" while
                 Speaker of the House
        \_ Kill the cop, then he can't show.  With no witnesses, you win!
        \_ Time == money. The fine is $315 or so. If it's worth your time
           to fight it (and possibly lose), go ahead. Read the citation.
           If it's just failure to stop, it's just about impossible to fight
           it (without witnesses). If it says you missed the sign completely
           or went through at specific high speed, you might have a case,
           especially if you very are familiar with the area (ie. you know
           the stop is there and could NEVER have run it at the speed noted.)
        \_ If your dad is the president or head of the CIA, you can have all
           charged dropped.
           \_ Wow! That worked! Thanks! -op
           \_ What if I belong to a powerful political MA dynasty and I left
              a woman to drown to death in my car in a lake?  Can I still be
              a Senator?
              \_ Or if you abandon your children (ie not pay child support)
                 after you abandoned your wife and she divorced you, and
                 you lead a charge to champion "family values" while
                 Speaker of the House
2004/3/2-3 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:12491 Activity:nil
3/2     how do i deter flies from flying around my back yard?  i suspect
        the pigeons in my neighbor's back yard is attracting those flies.
        \_ flypaper.  For the larger problem, Alka Seltzer + cats.
        \_ RAID.  Or poison the pigeons.
           \_ I really don't understand how disk arrays would prevent flies.
        \_ Some sticky yellow tapes which attract flies and sticks to them.  I
           don't know what they're called.
        \_ the number of flies is too many plus it's outdoor.  sticky
           paper won't work well in this condition.  i just want to see if
           there's some non-destructive and environmental friendly way.
           \_ what about those things that emit sound on frequencies annoying
              to insects? i've always wondered how well they work, though.
              \_ what about those "bug" lights?
                 \_ i think those attract bugs and fry them, as opposed to
                    just keeping them away in the first place.
           \_ Actually I've used flypaper outdoors to great effect.  Had
              what seemed like a zillion flies zipping around, the paper
              worked well.  Put up about a dozen strips, and the flies
              were all stuck to the paper within a few days.
        \_ frogs
        \_ part of Fly's life cycle is that its larvae need to be hosted in
           dead animal / decade flesh.  You might want to find out the source
           of these dead animal near your back yard.  Once you are able to
           cut the part of fly's life cycle, you will able to cut number
           of flys significantly.  This is the only effective way for dealing
           with Flys (aside from massive DDT/pesticide  spread).
2004/2/26 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:12409 Activity:nil
02/25   After living in Berkeley for 6 years, today, for the first time,
        someone told me that he got a BPD jaywalking ticket in Berkeley (on
        Center, near BART, nothing particularly unsafe past the norm --- no
        cars coming or anything; just lots of HS kids around, since it was
        right after school). Has BPD just started ticketing for jaywalking?
        Have they been at it all along? What the hell, doesn't BPD have more
        worthwhile things to spend time on?
        \_ this is one issue where the nypd got it right.  after the mayor
           decided to crack down on jaywalking a reporter jaywalked in front
           of a cop and literally asked for a ticket, and they refused.
           the cops decided en masse that giving jaywalking tickets in
           a city like new york is total bullshit and refused to do it
           as a matter of policy.
           \_ Yeah it is better to slow traffic, get pedestrians killed, piss
              off drivers and make it 'normal' for the numerous crazy and
              the alzheimers inflicted old to wander into traffic.  If you'd
              ever been there to see someone get his, to see their body fly
              20 feet like a rag doll and blood pool on the street and flow
              into the sewer you might have a different attitude.  You're not
              an idiot but you are an arrogant know-it-all ignorant git.
              \_ What you're describing is a fine reason to push anti-
                 jaywalking educational material, not a law fining people
                 for doing it in front of cops.  No one wants to see anyone
                 get crushed by a car, but there's a limit to the efficacy of
                 legislating common sense.
        \_ I got one back in 1991--it's nothing new.  Depends on whether
           the cop's got a quota to fill, whether he got up on the wrong side
           of bed, cosmic rays, whatever.  Same as campus cops with bike
           riders--remember that students are easy, profitable targets. -John
        \_ I had one walking from the Power Bar building to check my car in
           parking meter at lunch.  Was a marginal infraction: I had started
           ~ 5m before the intersection (diagonal into the street) to reach
           the cross-walk which displayed the 'walk' signal by the time I
           reached striped lines.  Sargent was on opposing corner.  He had
           a gay lisp and an upside down flag on his lapel (this was
           a month or two after 9/11).  I describe it as 'walking while
           white' - a hate crime in Berkeley.
           \_ Son, how do you use your arm with that huge chip on your shoulder?
              \_ You sound just like the hateful racists you think you're
                 opposed to.  You're no different.  Intolerance hurts us all.
                 \_ Hey dimshit, thanks for censoring.
                    \_ I love how the answer to any good reply is always "I got
                       censored!".  I didn't censor you.  If you think you've
                       got something to say I can more than easily hold my own
                       with you or anyone else on here.  Fear of your sharp
                       wit and clever replies isn't on my top 10 worries list.
                       You're a hateful racist and need to deal with that.
                       \_ It's also worth pointing out that if you have
                          something more than a line long to say on the motd,
                          it's really not hard to save a copy and paste it
                          back in after it gets killed.  It's not like
                          you have to handwrite your motd posts.
        \_ It is an on and off thing.  Generally they are very lax about
           jaywalking, but every now and then they will crack down at
           very specific spots.  I suspect that happens right after an
           accident caused by jaywalking.  Also I've seen cops give people
           a hard time for jaywalking right in front of them, and if that
           person blows them off they tend to get a jaywalking ticket.  Cops
           seem to especially hate it when you slow down traffic by jaywalking.
           \_ Seconded.  I once crossed Durant against the light, stared
              down an oncoming car, and walked up onto the sidewalk,
              nearly into a cop standing there.  He yelled at me but as
              soon as he saw the look in my eyes (I was coming back from
              a far-too-long project meeting @ soda) he let it go.
              \_ So you're saying you struck fear into the heart of a BPD beat
                 cop?  Unlikely.
                 \_ I think he meant pity, not fear.
           \_ In these budget-crunching times, I'm sure they are feeling
              pressured to bring in money with small-time infractions.
        \_ i think they only do it now and then when there are high school kids
           around, because they want to impress upon people that they shouldn't
           be a bad influence.  i was stopped and written up once during the
           lunch hour, but i never actually got the ticket...  -lila
2004/2/17-18 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:12281 Activity:nil
2/16    If I plan to fly several times a year between US and asia, is there
        a way to get lower fare (other than accumulating mileages)?
        \_ do you know in advance when you'd be flying?  perhaps you'll
           find the reverse round trip (asia->us) less expensive over there.
        \_ from asian travel agencies such as the following:
                (in japanese)
           \_ HIS got us roundtrip airfare from Japan to four stops in the US
              to Europe and back for $1200/person.  Very nice.
2004/2/11-12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:12225 Activity:high
2/11    I have proof that 9/11 was staged by our government:
        \_ This ain't proof, just a bunch of rambling thrown
           in with a few coincidences.
        \_ The very concept is so ridiculous I don't see a reason to waste
           the wear and tear on my mouse to click the link.
           \_ even if you don't agree, aren't you curious?
              \_ no, I've been on the net for 20 years, how much more lunacy
                 should i subject myself to until I can stop being curious?
           \_ Remember The Maine!
              \_ Similar but no-go.  A good shot at it, though.
        \_ All the "9/11 never happened" people are just radicals who want
           to overthrow the US government.  [formatd]
           \_ As soon as we draft the general we'll take over and reshape the
              country, no!, the world in our image!  It shall be glorious!
        \_ In a similar vein, I have evidence that Flight 93 was
           really shot down by the govt:
           \_ Oklahoma City was done by an Iraqi conspiracy, and the US
              government is covering it up!
        \_ Do you have the whacky links 'proving' that the pentagon wasn't
           even hit by a plane?  Those are the best.
           \_ yes, I would like to see those too.
           to overthrow the US government.
2004/2/6 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:12116 Activity:kinda low
2/5     speaking of death:
        \_ I like this: "If you are really concerned about your safety, stop
           smoking, lose weight, and get moderate exercise. And watch your
           drinking and use of non-prescription drugs" while not saying
           anything about driving. They should say "If you are really
           concerned about your safety, stop driving."
           \_ and to be truly safe, go live in a cave.
              \_ Read "The Hot Zone"? Things like ebola may grow in caves.
           \_ yeah yeah ride bike, light candle, use linux, whatever.  the rest
              of us have lives to lead.  we don't live on your utopia.
              \_ go fuck yourself. it's not that hard to live near where you
                 \_ Uhm, yeah, if you work at Safeway, moron.  Or you're a kid
                    willing to way overpay *rent* on a shitty little run down
                    1 room in a south bay or penninsula pit.  Some of us have
                    real lives going on and can't just pick up and move to the
                    next slummy pit for a new job.  Did I mention you're a
                    moron?  Yes, I did.  I think I forgot to mention you're
                    also a self righteous smug little ignorant bastard, too.
                    \_ I work in the Financial District and live one half
                       block from the Muni stop. For the last 10 years I
                       have lived and worked in San Francisco. It isn't
                       that hard if you make it a priority.
2004/1/10-11 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:11735 Activity:nil
1/9     Got to look out for those evil flight simulator players
        \_ This is all Bush's fault.  I think Cheney was directly involved
           in this one.
        \_ That's not a flight sim player; THIS is a flight sim player:
           Okay, he's actually a military flight school pilot PLAYING
           a flight sim.  But damn, he's good.
           \_ Excellent!
              \_ Is Lock On good yet?  I heard it had lots of release bugs.
2004/1/6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:11675 Activity:nil
1/5     How easy is it to forge a ski lift ticket? ok thx.
        \_ the forging part is easy.. just to make it look well...
           however most resorts use a keyword (or phrase) on the face
           of the ticket that changes each day. so you will have to get
           to the resort.. see the tickets.. then go someplace where you
           can print the tickets for that day.
           \_ also, some places (i think Sugar Bowl is one) have different
              colored tickets everyday.
                \_ that is fine. My primary concern is how easy it is assuming
                   you have a perfect legit copy. For example, say 6 buddies
                   go in a van, and only 1 buys the ticket, then it's easy
                   to duplicate it. The only problem is the texture of the
                   ticket (waterproof) and the ink (ink jet is usually not
                   waterproof), which I don't know how to solve yet.
                   \_ That's easy!  Buy 6 tickets each day you cheap ass!
                      \_ No dude!  You can't let the Man get j00 |>0\/\/|\|!1!!
        \_ Forge a season pass instead.
        \_ Gosh, I kind of feel bad.  This was a pretty well-crafted troll to
           try to draw out a loud moral type.. I just rolled really well on
           my saving throw.  No cookie I guess, though it's not your fault.
2003/12/6-7 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:11334 Activity:nil
12/5    How does an airplane know its true speed instead of air speed?  Thanks.
        \_ African or European?  -John
        \_ radar, possibly GPS
                \_ oh yeah, you can get heading/speed via radar if you're
                   on IFR or on VRF flight following. -csua pilot
           \_ That computes true air speed, not ground speed. -geordan
        \_ what exactly is the difference between the two?
           \_ If you're flying at an air speed of 300MPH eastward in some wind
              whose speed is 50MPH westward, your true speed is only 250MPH.
              \_ but i get screwed in physics question when they think
                 the instrument panel shows true speed. :(
        \_ there is the true airspeed, indicated airspeed, and ground speed.
           You get true airspeed by taking in account of indicated airspeed
           and the environment (temperature, humidity, etc), and the know
           calibrated errors from the airspeed indicator (indicated airspeed).
           Then you get the approximate wind speed from ATIS, tower, or
           other reliable source, recalibrate it (since wind speed is always
           true north whereas your heading indicator is always magnetic
           north). From those variables you can get a pretty precise ground
           speed. However, GPS makes it a lot easier.   -csua pilot who
                quit being a programmer and is now flying turboprops in
                the midwest
                \- csua pilot: what are those sign like A45 R16 etc you
                   see by the side of runways at commercial airports.
                   i think they sometimes have arrows on them.
                   \_ A45? Don't think that exists. Suppose you see A16.
                      It means you're at the approach end of runway 16 and
                      that you better hold short of runway till clearance
                      from ground. A15-33 means you're approaching runway
                      15-33. Runway numbers are aligned to the magnet north
                      rounded up/down and the last digit is omitted. For
                      example, 15-33 means runway 15x-33x (same runway).
                      Say 33x is 330, then it is aligned 330 degrees and
                      330-180 (150) degrees. All of this information is
                      readily availabe on the annual publication of FAR/AIM
                      which is easily accessible even at Borders/B&N. If
                      you're really curious, go to your local flying club
                      and fly a plane for once! It'll be the most exhilirating
                      $50 you'll ever spend in your life.
                      \- oh ok good. yeah i was guessing it has something to do
                         bearings, but was wondering why i didnt see larger
                         numbers. now why in large planes, do they open the
                         window shades for landing [so passengers arnt
                         disquieted?] and turn the cabin lights on/off
                         during takeoff/landings.
                         \_ in the old days (and when you're training as a
                            a pilot), you turn off all the non-essential
                            power-hogs so that during take off you don't
                            overload the circuitry and blow off fuses. This
                            procedure has been passed down for historical
                            reasons and we [airlines] still do it just
                            because it works. As for the shades, it's just
                            to shut the damn passengers         -csua pilot
                                \_ actually there have been cases where the
                                   passenger notices something wrong with the
                                   wing or the fuselage (which is not caught
                                   in the sensors). But like I said all the
                                   non-essential stuff is secondary to
                                   \_ yeah, like the time the passenger saw
                                      that little monster on the wing and he
                                      was tearing apart the wing and no one
                                      would believe him
                                      \_ yeah!! where was that??
                                         \_ I think it was an X-Files episode.
                                            \_ Maybe, but it was definitely a
                                               Twilight Zone episode.
                                               \_ Episode with William
                                                  Shatner; in the movie with
                                                  John Lithgow.
2003/9/30-10/1 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:10389 Activity:nil
9/30    Anybody know about the four fighter planes flying over Oakland? They
        are grey rather your standard performance-group paint job.
        \_ A fly-over for the 1pm Giants game?
           \_ Yep. It was the "Fighting Redcocks" from Lemoore NAS.
           \_ Yup, it was the fly-over for the start of the Giants game.
              \_ 2-0
2003/9/15-16 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:10202 Activity:nil
9/15    Got a traffic ticket in Palo Alto.  Anyone know of any
        fun/easy/cheap/quick traffic schools that I can go to?
        Palo Alto doesn't allow online traffic schools.
        \_ The DMV cracked down on 'easy' and 'quick' years ago.  You'll get
           the state mandated minimum $X hours in every class and they all
           'teach' the exact same minimal standards in that time frame.  They
           all take attendance, etc.  Suck it up, son.  Sorry.
2003/9/6 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:10103 Activity:high
9/6     Snopes caught red-handed trying to cover their ass when proven wrong!
        \_ who's snopes, and who cares?
           \_ myth-debunking website, often cited as an "authority" by
              fat sysadmins.
        \_ I know who/what snopes is but I agree: who cares?  You seem to
           take this personally.
           \_ Just thought it was funny.  So what do you care about?  Weight
              loss products?
        \_ Oh no!  A someone was wrong, and then they corrected themselves!
           we can never trust them on anything ever again!!
2003/9/5 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:10086 Activity:nil
9/4     Rather than building midget useless weak carriers that require
        vertical take off planes (which have worse performance than
        non-vertical take off planes), why don't the Brits just build a
        bigger carrier?
        \_ JSF
        \_ Because they can't afford one and putting all your eggs in one
           basket is both militarily stupid and inflexible.
        \_ The British have the right idea.  Vertical takeoff craft which
           are computer-piloted....  That's the way to go.
           \_ Until the FoF system tags a 747 landing at O'Hare as an
              incoming enemy bomber and kills a few hundred people.  The day
              they can take the people out of wars is the beginning of a
              perpetual war which won't end until all industrial bases are
              destroyed on one side or someone uses WMD on a large scale.
              \_ It's IFF
                 \_ Friend or Foe, thanks.
              \_ Watched T3, did you?
                 \_ Yes, but you apparently didn't.  That wasn't the message
                    in T3 at all.
        \_ it worked in the Falklands.  Also, the U.S. marines use Harriers
           too.  Nod to the can't afford comment above.
           \_ USMC has a pretty good reason for using Harriers.  As an
              expeditionary force, they can't rely on the existence of
              proper runways everywhere.
           \_ worked damned well in the Falklands actually.  OP, the Brits
              don't have any current concerns about taking on the USAF.  They
              don't need a USAF quality AF.  They just need enough to pretend
              to be a world power and smash second world Argentina quality
              nations every so often or back us up here and there for good PR.
2003/8/8-9 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Reference/Military] UID:29284 Activity:kinda low 50%like:29280
      That campaign site is a gold mine.
        \_ Old news.  The question everyone wants to know is...does the
           action figure come with a 1:6 scale cup to memorialize the drug
           test he skipped out on in 1973?
           \_ Just how many drug test have YOU skipped out on ?
              \_ None.  AND I haven't run for president.
2003/7/30-31 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:29185 Activity:kinda low
7/30    John Gilmore flies again, turns around international flight
        because of a dangerous political button.  Also included is a link
        to a column Declan McCullagh wrote 5 years to the day before
        September 11, 2001.
        \_ Declan McCullagh is an idiot.  He's semi-famous for being Declan
           McCullagh and that's about it.
2003/7/17 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:29069 Activity:high
7/16    What's the best way to get to San Diego on a weekday with least
        traffic, especially through Orange County?
        \_ There is only one route dumbass. Look on a map.
           \_ I see I5. I see 1 / 101.  Then past OC, I see 15.
        \_ most people take the 5 all the way.
           \- according to the CHP who pulled me over on the grapevine,
              "5 is the fastest way for sure" --psb
        \_ living in Irvine, here's my 2c:
                time of day: 9am - 330pm passing from the la/oc border
                   thru dana point is fairly light traffic.
           time of day: 9am - 330pm is ok from the la/oc border thru dana pt.
                route: if you do run in to traffic in OC(hunt.b. --> s.j.cap.),
                   you can take 73-toll
             if you need to pass thru LA, then avoid LA thru 930am(probably)
           route: if you do run in to traffic in OC, you can take the toll
             road: I-73 (hunt.b. --> s.j.cap.)  -nivra
        \_ Southwest Airlines  (assuming you're coming from somewhere they
           fly from - since you didn't say, we can only guess somewhere the
           far side of Orange County.)
2003/6/7-8 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:28664 Activity:moderate
6/6     I need to fly from LAX to Denver in September and the airfare is
        like $275, which is ridiculous since I can fly cross country
        for barely more than that.  Is there some trick to get a
        reasonable airfare for a market that obviously doesn't have
        enough competition.  I'm assuming that I'm not going to be able to
        save $100 by using priceline.  Am I wrong about that?
        \_ why dont you enter your price in priceline and find out..
           thats the whole point of priceline.. you name your price
             \_ Cuz I won't get frequent flyer miles, nor will I be able to
                choose the time of day of the flight.  Priceline would be a
                last resort.
        \_ It is ridiculous.  Half of that is probably just taxes so
           I wouldn't expect priceline to give you that huge of a discount.
        \_ laugh, priceline will take your money if u underbid
        \_ Try searching on and save the itinerary for
           a few flights.  The price fluctuates depending on fuel prices,
           bookings, phase of the moon, etc., so if you check every few
           days you can buy the ticket when the price is lowest.  I've
           seen fluctuations on the order of 20-30% over a few weeks.
           Also, try flying into and out of other nearby airports.  Finally
           flying on certain days (Tuesdays and Thursdays, I think) is
           cheaper.  Good luck. -emin
             \_ Do you think it could go down by 30% even during the summer
        \_ RIDE BIKE!
2003/5/19 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:28481 Activity:kinda low
5/18    How much is a carpool lane ticket on 880 around Fremont?  I thought
        it's around $271, but the notification I received said I owe $321.
        And, what's the easiest way for me to find if I qualify for traffic
        school if I can't remember if my last traffic school is within the last
        18 months?
        \_ $271 is the minimum
        \_ You scumbag, I hope you get socked with more than that next time,
           and I hope your insurance company doubles your fees.  Bastards
           like you ought to be executed on the spot.
           \_ Yeah because no one ever made a mistake.  You're an idiot. -!op
           \_ Fuck all that.  Kill the cars. Jackhammer the roads.
              \_ Why destroy perfectly good roads?  Abortions for all!
                 Retroactive ones!  The human race is a virus!
        \_ Take it to a judge, admit guilt, ask for a reduced penalty because
           you're a poor student or you're an idiot and didn't notice the
           signs or something.  The judge can also send you to traffic scool
           no matter what for simple driving infractions like that.  Whatever
           you do, do not plead innocent.  You're guilty as hell and you're
           just going to annoy him.
2003/4/23-24 [Transportation/Airplane, Transportation/Car] UID:28199 Activity:very high
4/23    I bought a used Bel 855STi radar detector. But didn't get the
        manual. Does someone have it in electronic format? Or can I
        borrow a paper version for a short time? -- sagarwal
        \_ Hope you're not using it in CA.  Not only is it illegal but the
           cops here don't use that much radar anyway.  I got picked up by a
           \_ You're 0 for 2.  It's legal, and while the CHP don't use it
              that much, the local PDs do.
           cop on 580W who spotted me and correctly pegged my speed from more
           than a mile back without any gear.  He was polite about it and let
           me off with a warning, thank god, but the cops here don't need the
           radar to bust you with a pricey ticket.  My new rule of the road is
           simply, "never be the fastest car out there".  Haven't been picked
           up since yet still get where I'm going plenty fast in second place.
              \- hello, what kind of car where you driving, what was your
                 speed and what was the speed limit. i think anytime someone
                 gets a speeding ticket they should post these details in the
                 motd [along with location]. ok tnx --psb
                 \_ Honda civic, 85 in 65, where 580 meets 238 going west.
              \_ If you get picked up without radar, take it to court.
                 You can much easier fight a ticket when there's no
                 radar report. It's probably the reason why you got off
                 with a warning. I've fought off tickets before, so
                 I'm speaking from 1st person experience. Not fun.
                 \_ Since I didn't get the ticket there was nothing to fight.
                    Most of my tickets have been for red light running and
                    illegal turns so radar isn't an issue.
              They aren't illegal, except for commercial vehicles.
              \_ Maybe so, but still won't save you from tickets.
                 \_ As far as I know, CHP sometimes use radar to detect, but
                    always paces for a mile for confirmation (and to keep the
                    judge happy).
2003/4/1 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:27936 Activity:moderate
3/31    Are there any tips for using JetBlue to go LAX->OAK and back?
        I always hear about these ~ $24 fares but the lowest I ever get
        is $39, and that's in the middle of the week.
        \_ start planning early.  catch one of the specials.
        \_ Is that a safe airline?
           \_ it is a good airline.
2003/4/1 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:27931 Activity:nil
3/31    Airlines are in trouble.  Troops need to be sent to Iraq.
        Why not have the military take over some of the airlines planes
        to fly to Iraq?
2003/2/2 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:27275 Activity:kinda low
2/1     Does anyone have a ticket for some stupid show next
        \_ bleah bleah bleah fuck off. - danh
        \_ Yes, but dan never contacted me about them.  Must be trolling
           for tickets or something.  Bringing the art of trolling way
           over my head.  --disappointed ticket holding sheep
2003/1/29-2/1 [Transportation/Airplane, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Kinney] UID:27231 Activity:moderate 77%like:27261
1/28    Anyone have an extra ticket for the sleater-kinney shows in
        San Francisco next week?  I would do just about anything
        to buy your extra. - danh
        \_ Would you get my sheep off?  He's more used to getting his ass
           plugged and I'd like to make it up to him somehow.
           \_ Then give him a reach around. Geez, how hard is that? I know
              there isn's a man page on sheep, but try to use your brain...
              \_ I don't do reach around.  It's about my cock, not his.  I do
                 have an extra ticket if danh is interested.
        \_ Yes, please contact me to negotiate.
        \_ Nonono!  Contact *me* to negotiate!  I've got better tickets that
           the h0zer above.
        \_ My sheep does!
        \_ My sheep has tickets!  Will trade for services!
            \_ goddamn you are funny!
        \_ You should really consider my sheeps' offer.  He's quite serious
           about an exchange for services.
        \_ Sleater-Kinney?! yeah! I have 3 extra tickets! you should have
           asked earlier.
2003/1/16 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:27111 Activity:moderate
1/15    It would be nice if a bunch of sodalites showed up for this
        important case defending freedom to travel. I will be there. -ausman
        \_ How would a bunch of smelly, poorly socialized, obnoxious, ignorant
           nerds showing up help anything?  I'd think you'd want them to stay
           home to support the cause?
        \_ How long has this guy been fighting this policy?  I totally
           agree with him but airlines have *loved* forcing people to show
           IDs for years because it keeps people from reselling their
           tickets and undercutting their last minute ticket prices.
        \_ I still want to know why you want smelly unsocialized nerds to show
           up?  It can only hurt your cause.
           \_ I disagree. It shows public interest in the case.
              \_ You've never been in a real court before, eh?  It's really
                 easy to annoy a judge and it'll show in his rulings.
2002/12/17-18 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:26840 Activity:kinda low
12/17   Anybody tried selling southwest airlines flight coupons before?
        They're good for round trip anywhere SWA flies.  I'm thinking of
        selling them but not sure what price I should ask.  They're pretty
        much good anywhere in the US.
        \_ Craigslist shows between $250-$300 depending on blackout dates
           and expiration date.
        \_ I've both bought and sold them before on eBay. $250-$300 is right.
2002/12/5-6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:26727 Activity:high
12/5    I have about 60K airline miles with United.  I'm afraid of losing
        them if the company files for bankruptcy.  Anybody been through a
        similar situation with another airline?  Do bankrupt airlines that
        continue operating honor their airline miles?  I really don't want
        to just buy a ticket because trips have to be planned and I don't
        have any plans right now.
        \_ They claim they're planning to keep the frequent flier plan alive
           through the re-org because they want the repeat business.  If you
           go somewhere else you'll never come back and they know it.
        \_ 60k?  feh, 1k premier
           \_ huh?  what does one have to do with the other?  maybe he
              just uses a lot of miles?  i'm 10k, and i probably only have
              50 or 60k miles saved because i fly my wife with me on trips.
              \_ You expect it to make sense?  Motd.
        \_ People with lots of FF miles are business travellers for the most
           part. They're usually paying higher ticket prices due to last
           minute travel. United does NOT want to piss these people off. Your
           miles will be safe until United goes out of business.
           \_ Yeah yermom racks up quite a few miles.
2002/12/5 [Transportation/Airplane, Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:26718 Activity:kinda low
12/4    Get your ticket to heaven:
        \_ I see all the failed dot-commers are starting to graduate from
           business school?  -John
2002/11/29-12/1 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Law/Court] UID:26667 Activity:very high
11/29   Has anyone used a lawyer for fighting a traffic citation? If so what
        was the outcome and how much did you shell out.
        \_ Unless you killed someone or you're up for some other sort of
           serious felony conviction you're wasting your time.  The lawyer
           fees will seriously outweigh the court penalties for a simple
           guilty plea.  No real lawyer will take your "75 in a 55 zone" case.
           \_ how about 125 in a 30 zone?
                \_ I think that falls under "serious felony".
        \_ I used the SF Traffic Clinic lawyers to fight a traffic citation.
           It was a couple hundred dollars, but I avoided a point on my
           driving record, and kept my insurance costs down too.  They
           specialize in driving citations in the bay area and are pretty
           good at arguing down a 75 in a 55 zone to a smaller offense. --chris
        \_ Be your own lawyer:
                \_ thanks chris, that's what I wanted.
        \_ Be your own lawyer:  Direct(but long)URL:
           Check out books like: Fight your ticket
                \_ I have the Nolo book, used it in court, judge loved
                   \_ me too. but I didn't do everything the book said.
                        my attempt and reduced the fine but didn't dismiss
                        the ticket. --op
                   \_ same here. but I didn't do everything the book said.
                      Since then, I've been waiting for a speeding ticket
                      to fight but haven't gotten one --poster of the book link
           \_ I used stuff from the Nolo book and totally got my ticket
              dismissed.  It really helps to know the Law here. -ERic
           \_ Ever heard of
        \_ You're doomed.
2002/10/22-23 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:26277 Activity:very high
        Try the poll.  Last time I voted, 16% says that the airline should
        pay for the seat.  That means that 16% of american are fat asses that
        requires two seats on a flight.  That is just sad.
        \_ Or they realize how much narrower seats are these days, when in the
           past the config was 2+2 and is now 3+3.  At some point el lardo
           must pay, but at which bit?  I do know that SWA shouldn't be putting
           them in the emergency aisle!
           \_ american planes already have amongst the widest seats. It's the
           The USA should ban transmorgified fatty-acids (crisco) and
              leg room that keeps getting shortened.
        \_ If you take up twice as much room, your should pay twice as much.
           The USA should ban transmogrified fatty-acids (crisco) and
           excitotoxic flavir enhancers. they are making people fat and
           causing syndrome X. (insunin resistance and high blood pressure etc)
        \_ some people can't help being that's genetic for them.
           as a compromise, they should pay 1.5X the regular seat. airlines
           should accomodate them. shit, america accomodates for every other
           "disability" that exists.
           \_ Being fat isn't a disability.  The number of people with
              actual hormonal problems who "can't help being fat" dwarfs
              the number of people who just overeat.
           \_ Yeah, my Twin-XL bed shouldn't have cost anymore than a
              regular twin bed despite it costs more to make and uses
              more resources. Yeah Right. If you eat more calories that you
              burn per day you gain wait until your energy consumption matches
              your caloric intake.
           \_ Less than 5% (I've heard 1%) of obesity cases are genetic. But
              maybe they should offer some seats that are 2 to an aisle instead
              of 3 that cost 50% more... this isn't communism, the general
              population shouldn't have to pay for the few that are overweight
              (whether it is due to genes or habits). It's not like safeway
              charges you per visit... you pay depending on how much you buy
        \_ it's not the number of seats but the weight that should be
           taken into consideration too -- more jet fuel
           \_ not to mention the safety hazards. getting stuck in aisles,
              crushing other passengers, etc
        \_ Screw the fat people.  They should all stay home until Jerry or
           Heraldo cuts down a wall and wheels them out on a truck to the
        \_ Actually, it just means that 16% of Americans are either fat
           or pinko commies that want to stick it to corporations whenever
           possible.  Even when it makes no sense. -jrleek
           \_ if you hadn't noticed, it's the corporations who want to
              stick it to Americans--the airlines in this case.
           \_ I hate those fat pinko commies that want to stick it where
              it makes no sense.
2002/10/15-16 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:26186 Activity:high
10/15   Anyone know why a F18 or something is loudly flying around over
        Mountain View?>
        \_ my keyboard only goes up to F12.
           \_ Northgate used to make keyboards up to F24.
        \_ Uh, because Moffitt Field is there??
          \_ Train harder. Moffett Field NAS closed years ago.
             \_ I thought it was being used by the Air National Guard.
             \_ It's still working. NASA has flights out of there.
          \_ It is now a federal airport.  I saw a bunch of Chinooks
             flying into it on the way into work.
        \_ There was a missle test at 7pm yesterday.  Don't know if that's
           related.  -- yuen
        \_ Are the Blue Angels still in town?
        \_ When?
           \_ This was around 9:30 this morning. Woke me up flying pretty low
              around my apartment.
              \_ Moffett Field. Low rolling thunderous? Probably the big
                 Chinooks mentioned above. Their flight patterns differ
                 on the weather, so you might have just gotten unlucky with
                 the noise today.
2002/10/1-2 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:26063 Activity:high
9/30    Recommendations for travel agent near Foster City? Looking to go
        to Key West, Florida.  Thanks!
        \_ use hotwire.. way cheaper than any travel agent..
           \_ what if you want to be able to change your flight? hotwire
              sucks unless price is teh most important thing to you.
              \_ well then.. yer not looking for a cheap flight then
                 its usually not exactly cheap to change flights.. at
                 least a $50 charge usually.
                 \_ Did the OP mention anything about looking for a cheap
                    flight? Also, if you cancel your flight with a normal
                    (non hotwire) ticket, you don't lose $50... you get flight
                    credit and can rebook later. But $50 is still better than
                    missing your flight and then having to pay $1000 for a
                    full price ticket.
                        \_ varies with airline. All major ones will charge you
                                a change or rebooking or cancellation fee.
                    \_ if hes hunting for a travel agent its a good guess
                       that hes searching for a great price. travel agents
                       have lost most all commisions these days so their
                       discounts suck compared to say, 3 yrs ago. yer right,
                       if you cancel you get your fair back. my point is,
                       travel agents suck for price these days. they are
                       good for advice and not much else for domestic. if
                       he wants a non-hotwire then use expedia or travelocity.
2002/9/20 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:25956 Activity:low
9/19    I was wondering if any current student who's not planning to get this
        year's football season ticket would help me get one.  If so, please
        email me at eyip. Thx. -Eric
        \_ Post a flyer at the dorms.  (I'm serious).
        \_ buy a young alumni ticket you cheapskate
2002/7/27-28 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:25433 Activity:moderate
        EFF's John Gilmore challenges ID requirements.
        \_ John is a good guy, but I think he has waaaay to much time on his
           \_ Actually, we need this kind of activism now more than ever.
              \_ There are other things he could spend his time on in the same
                 general area that would be more useful.
2002/7/9 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:25314 Activity:high
        Be careful about Jokes said in airports and airplanes.
        \_ First Amendment RIP.
        \_ Wow.  Really fucking stupid.  How does that compromise the safety
           of the flight?  Fucking idiots.
           of the flight?  Fucking idiots.  There's a big fucking difference
           between "hey, find the knife in my bag" and "Is the pilot sober"?
2002/7/2-3 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25266 Activity:high
7/2     Anyone reading the Yahoo news on the plane crash in Germany?  How come
        tens of photos are about the wreckage of the Tupolev?  Where's the
        wreckage of the 757?
        \_ Maybe cuz the 757 is a cargo plane and there weren't any children
           on board and no one died 'cept for the crew?
2002/4/29 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:24632 Activity:kinda low
4/28    What do people use for getting cheap tickets online?  I just tried,,, and they
        all sucked.
        \_ hotwire if you're flexible, orbitz if you're not. Also, a friend
           just got a good deal directly with JetBlue.          - rory
           \_ not much destinations.
        \_ unfortunately, a lot has to do with timing (ie, getting 'em
           early). i once bought tix to hawaii that doubled in price only
           two days later.
        \_ Used travelocity and got great prices on everything. 5 weeks in
           advance.  Short term prices are *always* really high no matter how
           you look for them.  The sites don't suck, you planned poorly.
        \_ Ebay.  Search for Southwest Rapid Rewards, unless you're flying
2002/4/14 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:24437 Activity:high
4/13    The Truth Is Out There:
        Go go conspiracy theorists!
        \_ Answers:
           1: The pentagon isn't built from the same crap as Soda Hall.
           2: It hit at a downwards angle and killed some grass and walkway.
           3: The plane's structure is built to be light so it can fly. Melted.
           4: Putting down pseudo paving for the heavy construction vehicles.
           5: Mis-representation.  Anyway, they sheared off, and followed in.
           6: He didn't have the info or he's incompetent.  Reader's choice.
           7: The flaming gaping airplane sized hole.
           And my own question to the silly French:  If the plane didn't hit
           the Pentagon then where did all those people go who we *know* were
           on that plane?  The French are so dumb.  Too much bad wine.
2002/4/5-6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:24337 Activity:high
4/5     Where can I get a good deal on a whitewater rafting trip?
        \_ Which river do you want to go on?
           \- I have done a fair amount of research on the rivers and operators
              withing 250 mi of SFBA. I think the costs are pretty competitive,
              which means the rates are pretty comparable. The way to save is
              1. go mid-week. Go last minute. Group discount. and in some cases
              Go mid-week. Go last minute. Group discount. and in some cases
              do the day trip rather than the with camping and food options.
              A harder question is who are good oeprators ... i.e. who gives
              you more bang for the buck. --partha "river right" banerjee
              [oh rafting in the "3rd world" is hell of cheaper, especially
              if you know how to travel and can get the Friend Prices rather
              than the Whitey Price. If you want to go on a long ~10day trip
              you can practically justify a plane ticket to nepal with the
              price differential. You are also more likely to meet supermodels
              while rafting there.]
              \- oh by the way, there are some particularly expensive
                 operators like SOBEK where you are subsidizing a lot
                 of their own projects so unless you want to say "my guide
                 did the first decent of <insert some obscure tributary of
                 the Zambeizi>" I'd avoid them and other people with really
                 fancy brochures [OARS]. Cache Creek is cheap [$100].
                 If you are a hot chick you can come on my upcoming
                 "fast-descent" trip. --psb
                 \_ You are an imposter. Own up. --psb #243 fan
                        \_ what gives him away?
                    \- what?
2002/3/16 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:24133 Activity:low
3/15    Did anyone hear about this:
        Would you trust some guy in a "baseball cap" if he told you he was
        an air marshall? I probably wouldn't.
        \_ Is he bigger than me and armed?
2002/2/13-14 [Recreation/Dating, Transportation/Airplane] UID:23858 Activity:very high
2/13    "Jetliner Lust Attracts F-16s".  AKA: Don't get busted having sex in
        the airplane bathroom while coked up on a long flight.
        \_ bah!  i doubt that if the two people involved are of the
           opposite sex and american citizents they would do anything.
           \_ So you think this is anti-british discrimination or anti-gay
              discrimination?  I think it's anti-stupid discrimination.
              \_ i don't think it's any kind of discrimination. i just
                 want to know my chances of being sent to jail for
                 exale the crack smoke.  -sky
                 screwing my wife in the bathroom on the plane, and
                 i asess thosw chances as being close to zero.
                 \_ sure but try going to the b/r 5 times together while
                    coked up during a high security alert.
        \_ How did they smoke pot in the restroom and not set off the smoke
           \_ Not pot. Crack.
              \_ You stick your head in the toliet and flush everytime you
                 exale the crack smoke.  -sky "i've been banned from
                 a major airline"
2002/1/18-19 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:23600 Activity:high
1/18    What's the point of matching checked-in luggages with passengers
        boarded the airplane?  We all know too well that the bin Laden folks
        are suicidal.
        \_ those damn suicidal hijackers/bombers just ruined it for us
           non suicidal hijackers / bombers. now we can't do ANYTHING.
        \_ And the real answer is: so they don't get bombs put on the plane
           that don't have a matching (suicidal) passenger.  The rest of
           you: thank you for playing.  You may go home with the consolation
           prize now.  You're now a tiny bit smarter and maybe less self
           righteous and obnoxious about your know-nothingness.
           \_  not self-righteous, but smug.
              \_ That's a better word thanks.  I was stuck for the right
                 \_ You seem like the smug, obnoxious, moron to me. What makes
                    you think your answer is any more correct?
                    \_ probably because his answer is the correct one.
                    \_ you answered your own question.
        \_ If you didn't, they'd be able to recruit more bombers.
        \_ oh, like there's a point to the other useless security measures they
           implemented?  a lot of it is for show.
           \_ winning the hearts and minds of morons.  same as terrorism.
              the terrorists know they can't blow up enough planes to make
              plane travel any where near as dangerous as car travel, and
              the gonvernment knows they can't really stop terrorism, but
              since most people are fucking idiots, they can be swayed to
              travel or not travel by stupid bombings or stupid security.
              \_ Ha ha.  Good point.
              \_ Yeah, but I gotta suffer thru lines and wait and shit.
                 And am not allowed to bring my leatherman aboard which
                 will be needed when the terrorists find some way to sneak
2001/11/13-14 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:23031 Activity:high
11/13   Where can I get aircraft/engine failure&|crash statistics?
        \_ BTW, does anyone recall the crash in Sacramento a year or so ago?
           What was the final result of the cause?
           \_ Why aren't civilian airplanes equipment with ejectable
                \_ What do you mean by "ejectable" parachutes?
              \_ Probably because all parachutes require lots of training to
                 operate properly, whereas life jackets is much easier to use.
                 \_ Also, it won't help in accidents like explosions where you
                    die of low pressure and lack of oxygen after jumping if not
                    the explosion itself, or crash while landing in bad weather
                    where you don't have time to jump.  Besides, how do you
                    jump/eject hundreds of passengers in a short time?
              \_ was talking about this the other day at work.  Someone
                 suggested a big chute for the plane itself.  However, if
           99.99999 with the additional money!
                 each seat is equiped with a self deploying chute it should
                 \_ read an article about this a long time ago.  if you are
                    talking about the big jet planes, the chute itself would
                    take up a huge amount of space.  i dont remember how much
                    but it was on the order of like 1/3 or 1/2.  something
                    impractical.  maybe it might be more practical for
                    smaller planes.
        \_  Also, <DEAD><DEAD> and
  have some info.
        \_ Air travel would be MUCH safer if it cost 10x more!
           I bet the 99.9999 survival rate would be increased to
           99.99991 with the additional money!  Of course, if
           society applied that same money to diabetes research,
           we'd probably save 100x as many lives.
           \_ Society can't apply money, only people apply money.  You really
              should stop thinking in hazy plurals.
              \_ What about when government applies money?
                 \_ It's never 'the government.'  It's always some particular
                    people in charge of something, and influenced by some
                    lobbying effort.
                    \_ Do you know what sophistry is?
                       \_ I find it helpful to point fingers at particular
                          people when my tax money is being spent badly.
                          Saying 'the government' did it helps certain parties
                          avoid responsibility.  Do you know what ad hominem
           \_ What if that extra .00001% saved was *A CHILD*????  MY GOD, MAN,
              WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???????  No amount of
              money spent on air safety can possibly be enough, you heartless
              \_ Why don't you donate all your income to child-saving charities
                 then?  You even get a tax break for doing so.
2001/11/12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Airplane] UID:23008 Activity:very high
11/12   Okay, I didn't make this up. I've been seeing low level flying jets
        (looks like those fighter jets) since this morning. What's going on?
        \_ See the thread on NYC plane crash below.
        \_ Amazing how you can spot possible military craft but entirely miss
           270+ people dying in a crash.  All over the news.
        \_ I don't see how jets can prevent airplanes that are taking off
           from crashing into dense city.
           \_ They can't but they can prevent an airplane from flying from
              NYC to DC and blowing up something.  There's no one big cure-all
              fix to life.
        \_ There was a medium-sized bomber-type airplane flying around
           Berkeley yesterday afternoon.  It was flanked by two helicopter
           gunships, and the bomber was dragging two refueler-type cables,
           one from each wing, with a cone-shaped object at the end
           \_ Article in sfgate:
2001/10/22 [Reference/BayArea, Transportation/Airplane] UID:22800 Activity:nil
10/22   Salon has a nice bio of Mark Bingham, the former Cal Rugby player
        who probably had a hand in the counter-hijacking of United Flight 93.
        He's become something of a hero in SF and they're talking about a
        memorial for him in the Castro district.
        \_ otoh, the chron has an opinion piece circulating a rumor that
           the usaf shot down flight 93.  god bless america.
           \_ there was a second debris field, which isn't consistent with
              the theory that passengers overpowered the hijackers and forced
              the plane into the ground
              \_ Maybe it went down like this:  passengers stormed the
                 hijackers, who really DID have a bomb.  Blammo.  No
                 F16 required.
           \_ If this were true, why would the govt want to cover this up?  It
              would've been good press for Bush that they acted fast.
                \_ Because the concept would have sickened most Americans at
                   the time before the full depth of the day had sunk in.
           \_ The Chron has actually gotten worse since the merger.
                \_ No shit...bringing in mediocre examiner people
                   brought down even further this already mediocre
                   paper. And "shitty" doesn't even begin to explain
                   the new examiner. I'd rather "keep SF" a one
                   newspaper city.
                \_ It costs 25 cents to keep me busy on BART all the way to
                   work and back.  Hard to beat that.
2001/9/22 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22586 Activity:moderate
        \_ Idiot Americans ask innocent people to leave airplanes because
           they are perceived to be Middle Easterners. Get a fucking
           clue, people.
           \_ As opposed to idiot Middle Easterners killing innocent
              people with airplanes because they are perceived to be
                \_ zing
           \_ sigh. of course you know, radical German terrorists
              or perhaps even militia members will have a field day
              (no one will be watching them).
              \_ radical German terrorists? who are they and what do they want?
                \_ didn't you see lebowski? they're nihilists!
                   they want NOTHING!
                   \_ hey man....nice ferret.
                        \_ The Dude abides, man. The Dude abides.
2001/9/13-14 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:22442 Activity:very high
9/13    Has FAA ever considered putting parachuttes into airplanes, like
        mandating lifeboats on cruise boats?
        \_ My guess is that they are prohibitively expensive to be
           implemented everywhere. Anyone know how much they cost?
        \_ Put some in the upper floors of skyscrapers too.
        \_ Seal the fucking cockpit. There is NO REASON for passengers
           to be able to access the cockpit of a commercial aircraft.
                \_ I was reading sometihng that said they CAN'T put a big
                   wall sepereating the cockpit of a plane for structural
                   reasons.  Right now there is a locked door but it is
                   possible to break that door down if you are determined.
                   Any stronger and the plane would not be able to handle
                   stresses it needs to be able to be safe.
                   \_ I read that Israeli planes have a reenforced bulkhead
                      and an armored door along with weapons in the cockpit
                      and uniformed and plainclothes air mashals. We'll
                      probably get the same shortly.
                        \_ E1 A1 also has 2 air marshalls. That's why they're
                           one of the safest and expensive airlines.
                           \_ What good is an air marshall if the the hijackers
                              take him out first and then sieze his gun? It
                              seems like we would be in worse shape at that
                              point. And what if the air marshall get sick,
                              or goes wacko or hijacks the plane himself?
                              \_ I thought that they always picked random
                                 seats for the marshall and they dress
                                 them up in regular civillian clothing.
                              \_ you don't jsut sieze the gun of an isreali
                                 special forces officer.
           \_ What if the pilot and nav crew need to check the
              avionics or the engine? Big problem if they are locked
              in and the flight crew has been killed.
           \_ What if they need to take a wiz during a 10hour flight?
              \_ Add disposable bags to thier armored flight suits.
        \_ Its not that easy to "bail out", most people would die trying
           and get splattered all over someones front yard, very messy.
        \_ airplanes are still one of the safest form of transportation.
           \_ In terms of # accidents per travel, or # accidents per mile of
              \_ both. airplane trips are general between larger distances,
                 so having the first implies that you'll have the second.
2001/9/12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:36283 Activity:nil
9/12    Microsoft releases Flight Simulator Value Pack for Flight Simulator
        2002.  New flight destinations include "World Trade Center (WTC)" and
        "The Pentagon (PTG)".
        "As the leader in this rapidly evolving industry, we need to constantly
        stay ahead of our competitors." said Bill Gates, Chairman of Microsoft
        Corp.  "One of our strategies is to realize every opportunity out there
        and make the most profit out of it, despite possible criticisms from
        certain consumer groups."  Sales are expected to reach thousands in
        the first two days.
        \_ The new destinations were developed based on research conducted at
           the University of Kabul by Prof. Laden et. al.
2001/9/12 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22413 Activity:high
9/12    Evidently there is no circumstances in which the first thought of
        a politician isn't isn't "Shit what lies can i make up to keep me
        from looking bad" ...
        I assumed i was way too old and jaded to ever say this again, but,
        i'm so disgusted.
        \_ How can Air Force One be the target?  It's a moving object and it's
           a big sky up there for a commercial airliner of similar speed to
           ram into it.  And doesn't a 757 fly slower than a 747?
           \_ AF1 was a target while it was sitting on the tarmac. The White
              House and/or Camp David might have been a target.
              \_ But Bush won't be in the plane when it's stiting on the
                 \_ There is a window of vulnerability of about 3 to 5
                    mins after the plane lands he is wisked away in the
           \_ You punch in the coordinates and the computer does the rest.
              Its not that hard.
              \_ A 757 can be programmed to seek a moving target with changing
              \_ You keep repeating this without understanding my point. The
                 WTC has known gps coordinates. If you give the autopilot
                 coordinates it will steer the aircraft toward the coordinates.
                 All the bastards had to do was to disengage the autopilot
                 a few seconds befor the collision. It takes some training
                 but its not that hard.
            \_ AF1 WAS NOT A TARGET. that's the point. it's all B.S. made up
               because Bush was getting criticized for not getting back to D.C.
               fast enough to avoid criticism. -top
               \_ The article states that af1 and the white house were targets.
                  Maybe AF1 wasn't a target, but I can believe that the white
                  house was. Its not made up bs. There are legitimate security
                  concerns where Secret Service can overrule what the pres.
                  wants to do.
           ram into it.  And doesn't a 747 fly faster than a 757?
2001/9/12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:22412 Activity:high
9/12    What's the point of banning plastic knives on airplanes?  All a
        terrorist need is a pen to kill someone on the plane.  Or even a
        waistbelt.  Or he can even use bare hands if he knows some form of
        martial arts.
        \_ you've been reading too much shibumi
        \_ there will be plenty of other "security measures" that will
           make much less sense than banning plastic knives on planes.
           get ready to spread butter on your rolls in a slightly
           different manner.
        \_ We should ban oxygen on planes so that potential terrorists can't
        \_ We should ban oxygen on airplanes so potential terrorists can't
2001/9/12 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:22410 Activity:high
9/12    How come nobody suspected North Korea for this attack?
        \_ Commies are not faceless cowards.
           \_ Didn't that Kim-something female agent from NK put a bomb in an
           \_ Didn't that Kim-something female agent from NK put a bomb in a US
              airline years ago?
                \_ Where is she now?  She was quite a HO7 AZN CH1C.
           \_ Didn't that Kim-something female agent from NK put a bomb in a US
              plane years ago?
        \_ What does NK have to gain from doing this? They want American
           food and supplies to help their famine at home.
2001/9/12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:22407 Activity:high
9/12    Is it that hard to learn flying 757s and 767s given that the planes
        pretty much fly themselves?  You can learn from the M$ Flight
        Simulator, right?
        \_ These bastards didn't need to know how to fly the planes. They
           just needed to know how the steer them into a building. It doesn't
           take much training to do that. M$ Flight Sim is probably enough.
           \_ But they need to find their way to NYC and Washington before
              they can see the targets visually.  But then M$ Flight Sim
              probably teaches that too.
              they can see the targets visually.
        \_ They sure did aim nicely, though.  Right into the center of each
           of the towers.  Those things steer like drunken cows.  -geordan
           \_ Actually, I think the 2nd plane hit the corner of the tower.
           Does it really matter? -eric
           \_ You punch in the coordinates and the computer does the rest.
              Its not that hard.
              \_ The autopilot has coordinates for each of the World Trade
                 Center towers and can target them that accurately?  The
                 things technology can accomplish these days. -geordan
                 \_ 1. it's easy to memorize numbers for a single coordinate
                    2. you just have to get close enough to see the damn thing
                       then they can crash into it easily.
        \_ how good were the pilots?
2001/9/11-12 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22396 Activity:high
9/11    How did terrorists get the airplanes to hit the WTC and Pentagon?
        Why would pilots crash a plane into those buildings considering that
        they probably knew that they were going to die anyways. Wouldn't it
        be better to just try to crash the airplane in a place where the number
        of casualties would be minimum? Or could it be that the terrorists had
        their own pilots? Also, any ideas about how terrorists could have gotten
        into the cockpit? Most airplanes these days should have armored
        cockpit doors. You can't get in there if the door is closed without
        blowing up the plane. Of course, the terrorists probably had all of
        those details planned well in advance..
        \_ man, just shut up.
        \_ Alright, I'm no investigator but I think what may have happened was
           that the hijacker(s) got into the cockpit by threatening one (or
           more) of the flight attendants with anything from butter knife to
           Swiss Army knife (which almost always pass security) to knock on
           the cockpit door; dragged and killed the pilot & 1st officer and
           piloted the plane himself. This is assuming that the jihad hijacker
           has knowledge of flying a commercial aircraft. I guess we won't
           know until the FAA release the cockpit-tower conversation during the
           crisis. I'm just pissed off and mad at this whole thing. - jthoms
           \_ It's NOT THAT HARD to pilot a stupid airliner for this.
              You punch coordinates into the autopilot to get you close,
              then tweak the controls a little for maximum impact at the end.
              It's not like you need to go to pilot school.
              \_ Perhaps, but it's not that hard to find a pilot in this
                 world, and it seems unlikely that people this organized
                 could be so poor that they wouldn't be able to afford training
                 of one sort or another.
                 world, and it seems unlikely that people that organized this
                 were so poor that wouldn't be able to afford training of
                 one sort or another.
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
           Read paragraph 4. - jthoms
           \_ How the f**k did they get the pilot out of the cockpit?  Or
              let them take over the cockpit?
              \_ "if you don't let me in the cockpit i cut out lisa's entrails!"
                 actually i imagine they killed someone first for effect.
                 \_ Still not a reason to let them in. Better they knife
                    50 people than kill 25K.
        \_ I would assume that the hijackers killed the pilots.  No sane
           American pilot would have willingly steered a passenger jet into
           the WTC or the Pentagon.  News reports also stated that each of the
           jets hijacked had similar controls, so most likely the hijackers
           were trained to pilot the aircraft.
           \_ Does this mean that flight sims will now be outlawed?
           \_ Maybe they were holding the family of the pilot hostage.
              Or they might have bribed him or something. I think that
              they probably had guns, smuggled aboard by bribing a janitor
              or baggage handler. Hey if it works for drugs in miami,
              there is no reason it won't work for guns in nyc.
                 world, and it seems unlikely that people that organized this
                 were so poor that wouldn't be able to afford training of
                 one sort or another.
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
           Read paragraph 4. - jthoms
2001/7/27 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:21970 Activity:kinda low
7/26    Are people allowed to take home study or online traffic school in
        Santa Clara county?
        \_ given the drivers in the bay area, i thought all you needed to
           do was show up to the DMV, and mutter "I'm INDIAN, lookee my
           integra powered by curry!" in an Indian accent and *WHAM* you
           get your drivers lic.
           \_ that's BMW, not integra, riceboy.  Oh yesh, BMW.
           \_ for the license, yes, but i'm talking about the traffic ticket
              bribery school
           \_ for the license, yes, but i'm talking about the traffic
              ticket bribery school
           \_ Hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry.
              \_ Good rice, good curry, good Gandhi let's hurry.
                 \_ Who needs the Quick-E-Mart?!
        \_ ask the court yourself.  Or are you preparing to get a ticket?
        \_ Yes.
2001/7/24 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:21928 Activity:nil
7/23    For those out of state, how do you travel to UCB?  (by plane,
        most likely).  One way tickets?  Round trip tickets?  Do you
        travel back during thanksgiving?  What airlines?
        \_ I ride yermom
        \_ I usually fly round trip for short trips, one way if I have
           no f**king idea when I'll be going back east.
2001/7/19 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:21851 Activity:kinda low
7/18    Cheapest tickets/most convenient/best service:  Direct from Airline through
        internet?  Direct through airline through phone?
        \_ I like pretty good deals, similar model to
           Priceline, but with much better customer service.
        \_ Best prices are almost always through a travel agent. They buy
           up fares in blocks that are often no longer available anywhere
           else. I don't fly that often, but that last few times I have
           flown cross-country my travel agent got me cheaper fares than
           I could find over the Internet for the *exact same flights*. --dim
           \_ I'm going coast to coast round trip for under 200 dollars,
              and i got my tickets online at travllocity.  i have had
              only bad experiences with travel agents, and i hardliy think
              they could match that kind of deal.
2001/6/29 [Transportation/Airplane, Computer, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:21679 Activity:high
6/29    Whee, death! Everyone loves obituaries. Who's dead today? For the latest
        celebrity deaths try <DEAD>!<DEAD> Where are those bodies?
        Skip on over to <DEAD>!<DEAD> Ain't progress grand? You can even
        create a virtual grave and leave virtual flowers at it! Ever wonder
        which mathematicians died on this date? This place has your ticket:
        Or skip on over to DeathNET, for all things death, try the hiband site!
        Or skip on over to and search
        for obituaries in your favorite state! And check out all these deaders:
        Them's fine reading folks, mini biographies delivered fresh every day!
        \_ Bob, is that you?
           \_ Nope, it's me. Damn I better start accomplishing something so
              that when I appear in there they have something good as the tag
              line. One of those guys had "Transportation Official" as his
              tagline. God that sucks. The man's life was summed up as
              "Transportation Official". Me, I'm not married so no "loving
              husband/father" shit. No famous works, no businesses founded.
              I'm useless. I should think up something for them to say and
              put it in my will.
2001/6/5 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:21425 Activity:very high
6/4     Anybody have a credit card that promises airline miles from any
        airline?  Do they really hold up?  I'm thinking of getting one.  There
        are a lot that are tied to one airline.  I'm wondering if those that
        say they'll get your miles from any airline really work.  Thanks.
        \_ I don't think so.
           \_ What do you mean "miles from any airline"  Points racked up
              on the credit card can be converted to airline miles not the
              other way around.  Diners and AmEx are two cards that allows
              you to convert the accrued points to any airline frequent
              flyer programs.  They also allow you to buy stuff for the points
              Most Visa and MC cards are only hooked up with one airline
              frequent flyer program.  Diners Club only works for hotels,
              airfares, car rentals, and some restaurant.  Otherwise not
              generally accepted.  AmEx pretty good, but usually charges
              a yearly fee to generate the points.
       \_  I am using Quicken Platinum Visa (which is actually by
           Travelers/Citbank) card.  Spend $8000 and you get a $100
           certificate.  4 $100 certificates and you get a US flight.
           You have to buy tickets through their Travel Center, which
           I found to be friendly and reasonably cheap.  I just used
           3 certificates for an upcoming trip (SF <-> Chicago) ticket
           for $367 (paying the $67 difference).  The price is slightly
           cheaper than what I see on the United Airlines website ($397).
           You can fly any airlines, and also you still get your
           frequent flyer miles.  The annual fee is $39.  I average
           about $15000-$20000 on the credit card.  I try to charge
           everything on it.  That comes out to about $200 for the price
           of $39.  Certificates expires in 2 years.   It's not the
           main reason I got the card.  Main reason is I use Quicken
           and like to download my credit card transactions to it.
2001/5/14-15 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:21272 Activity:high
5/14    Timothy J. McVeigh, 2001.
        \_ Shut The Fuck Up!
           \_ Is that stronger than just "Shut the fuck up."?
        \_ Uhm, dumbass?  He's not dead yet.
           \_ 2001 isn't over yet either.
              \_ yermom, 2001.   And your lameass point is?
        \_ He won't be dead anytime this year unless he falls on a spoon in
           prison or hangs himself or something.  No zap this year for Timmy.
           Maybe they have electricity supply problems also and this was a
           form of conservation?  Or was this going to be by injection?
        \_ tie his ass to a bomb, if he can get out in 2 seconds he lives
           \_ are you retarded?  did yermom drop you on your head as a baby one
              too many times?   *sheesh*   That's the dumbest thing I've
              heard all day.
           \_ And thus another martyr was born.
           \_ Nah, that's too saddistic. I'd say the most humane way of
              executing mass murders like him is to drop him from a flying
              airplane, somewhere at the the altitude of 3000m.
              \_ that's too fun. if i had to pick a death, i might pick that.
                  \_ The fun part is if you somehow survive. Then they
                      scrape you off the ground, fly your ass back up, and
                      drop it again.
2001/2/1-2 [Transportation/Airplane, Computer/SW/Security] UID:20496 Activity:nil
2/1     Tomorrow's Groundhog day!
        \_ says it's going to be cloudy in Oakland
           tomorrow.  So spring arrives soon?
2001/2/1-2 [Transportation/Airplane, Health, Recreation/Media] UID:20489 Activity:high
1/31    All stop, Mr. Sulu!
        -- The former Capt. Kirk and pitchman, who appeared
        with Sandra Bullock in "Miss Congeniality," is set to emcee the
        Miss USA Pageant on March 2.
        \_ You forgot "former TV cop, TJ Hooker" as well.  Who could forget
           all those car chase scenes where he ended up on the hood of the
           bad guy car in episode after episode?
           \_ I loved the scene in Charlie's Angels where they showed
              "T.J. Hooker The Movie" as the in-flight movie.
           \_ ...and "former TV doctor, Trapper John, M.D.". But Captain
              Kirk should never really be mistaken for a cop or a doctor
              (DAMNIT JIM!) because he only played them on TV, and after all,
              he's the pageantry of congeniality... as is clear from such
              great episodes as "The Doomsday Orgiastic Nazi Parade", "The
              Dribble with Nipples" and "Blue She-malien Bounty"... but you
              fuckin losers are far too hoity-toity to acknowledge such
              greatness lest you be exposed as the ashamed extra-human-virgins
              that you are incapable of even terrestrial attempts in the
              form of, say, lizardlove or owlorgy or gynogerbillingus.
                                                        - (fucker)
              \_ What is gynogerbillingus?
                 \_ cunnilingus on a gerbil.  pretty trivial.  fucker u
                    fail to impress me.
                    \_ Yeah, I've got say, -(fucker)'s wannabe "rants" are
                       pretty annoying.  But of course, this being the motd,
                       there's little hope he'll shut up.  *sigh*
2001/1/30-2/1 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:20473 Activity:very high
1/30    If you're looking for a vacation on train, I'd recommend Amtrak's
        Coast Starlight.
        I took the Oakland -> Seattle segment and it was great!  The train
        goes through snow-covered forests.  It was really romantic.
        \_ Romantic until it hits some deer or another train or truck or...
           \_ That IS romantic!
           \_ love is fostered under intense situations
              \_ From "Speed"?
        \_ Get a room. Actually, get a sleeper. Bring cigarettes, alcohol,
           and cards and hang out with the smokers after it gets too dark
           to see outside. I do recommend this trip for those who like
           trains. And not just in a "Risky Business" sorta way.
        \_ Why would I vacation on Amtrak?  Ew, yuck, bleah!  Might as well
           go on greyhound....
                \_ train travel is a lot more pleasant than airplane
                   travel.  -tom
                   \_ Not in this country.
                      \_ Absolutely in this country.  It's very slow but
                         there's no comparison in terms of comfort or
                         stress.  -tom
                         \_ Maybe we rode a different Amtrak or have different
                            ideas of comfort.  I'm happy to leave it at that.
                            \_ You are talking to Tom, he's a RIDE BIKE, LINUX
                               SAVE THE WHALES/PLANET type dude. Amish hay
                               rides are 1st Class for him.
                      \_ I took a train from NYC to Boston (and back), and it
                         was a LOT more pleasant than flying.  It was cheaper,
                         more comfortable, and had none of that airport stress.
                         Plus, there were power outlets next to the seats, so
                         I could plug my notebook in.  Connecticut scenery was
                         decent too. -- !tom
                         \_ I took the train from NYC to Boston a few times
                            in the summer.  It was cheaper and more
                            comfortable than flying, but it took a LOT longer.
                            If I could have gotten a $100 round trip ticket
                            like I can between LA and SF, I would. -emin
                            \_ true, but the time saved by flying is a bit less
                               if you account for the time you waste getting
                               to the airport early, getting through airport
                               traffic, etc.
           \_ Seriously, Amtrak sucks.  I was hoping to save some dough going
                going down to LA by train.  After a half-hour with their
                website, I had an itinerary that was 11 hours+ each way and
                cost $50 more than a Southwest ticket.
        \_ HELLO!!! We're in the fast paced information age where the
           destination is more important than the journey. I don't care
           about a stupid train experience, I just want instant gratification
           and that means getting to a place quickly and cheaply. DUMB ASS.
           \_ welcome back kchang!!  we missed you!
                \_ and hello to you, nick tom lila psb immigrant
2001/1/8-9 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:20268 Activity:high
1/8     Question: Why do airline pilots make ~$300k?  This seems signifcantly
        larger than a silicon valley engineer.
        \_ new pilots make ~30-40K in their first 2-3 years living as poor
           CFIs. Then they fly for commuter airlines, most likely multi-twin
           turboprops for another 5-6 years w/ only 50-60K. It takes about
           10 more years before they make 100K, and another 10 years before
           they see that 300K. They get 1-2 million for their retirement but
           that's another story.
        \_ because their training takes at least 100K and several years
           to get them certified.  You can't just walk in off the street and
           fly multimillion dollar jumbo jets.  -ERic
           \_ You can't?  God damn it!  Now I need a new plan.
        \_ the only pilots making anywhere close to that much are aircraft
           commanders (aka captains) flying the flagship aircraft.. the big
           ones and the new ones.  it takes many years and tons of flight
           time to qualify for those.. during which you usually get paid shit
           and peanuts.  -shac
        \_ Because they also work 12-16 hour days, have fairly unpredictable
           work schedules, rarely get to go home, and unlike engineers,
           are responsible for the lives of about 300+ people, and require
           years of training.  Remember, commute airline pilots don't make
           anywhere near that, rather the 747 ones do.  -John
                   \_ Many engineers are responsible for lives of millions
                      through the product they create. Many software
                      engineers, too. Just not the dotcommies. And the ones
                      that _are_ are generally paid much less than your
                      average Si valley dotcommunist.
                        \_ Yeah but you're not driving an E10k for 16
                           hours straight staring at a bajillion blinkenlights
                           and if you fuck it up all the life support machines
                           in town blow up.  -John
                           \_ How about flying a plutonium-filled spacecraft
                              on approach to Earth? Is that enough
                              responsibility? Airline pilots are glorified
                              bus drivers. --dim
                              \_ Okay I will drive the bus, and you drive
                                 the fully fueled 747.  If you get there in
           They have a skill you can't get from a  XYZ For Dummies book.
                                 the same number of pieces as I do, I'll
        \_ not making $300K? speak for yourself.
                                 buy you dinner.  Been watching "Airplane"
                                 again?  -John
                                 \_ So clearly astronauts should be making
                                    a lot more than they do? --dim
                           \_ I heard that in the near future all military
                              planes would be unmanned.
                              \_ The wars of tomorrow will be fought by
                                 robots. And so your mission is clear -
                                 to build and maintain those robots.
                      \_ I fucking hate when people put their shit in the
                         middle of someone else's comments.  Don't fucking
                         interrupt!  FUCK!  That pisses me off.  And no,
                         engineers are not making split second decisions
                         that can wipe out a few hundred people in an eye
                         blink.  They engineer shit which hopefully goes
                         through a lot of testing and verifying and rebuilding
                         numerous times before being inflicted on the public.
                         Don't try to compare your Lockheed Martin missile
                         building project with flying a 747 over populated
                         areas.  The pilot gets paid those bucks because
                         he's worth it.  You're not.  Don't delude yourself.
                      \_ A crashing plane != a crashing NT server
                         \_ My plane's onboard avionics runs on NT Server.
                            Should I be worried?
                            \_ no you should be looking for a parachute and
                                the emergency exit.
                                \_ Or a different plane in another city.
        \_ And 747 pilots aren't a dime-a-dozen like c++ and java coders.
           They have a skill you can't get from an XYZ For Dummies book.
           \_ Although Lufthansa desperately seeks to prove otherwise.  -John
              \_ What does Lufthansa do?
                 \_ Feed you worse-than-usual slop, drink before flying
                    (mine did), save more money than usual by recirculating
                    air, try to loop 747s, bomb Poland, etc.  -John
                        \_ What's wrong with bombing Poland?
                \_ Use pilots that got to chapter 6 or higher in Flying 747s
                   For Dummies.
2000/12/25-26 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:20169 Activity:nil
12/23   Southwest Airlines screwed me over by drastically overbooking a
        flight so I'm tring to screw them back a little. Don't fly
        Southwest. If you do get denied boarding because a flight is
        overbooked know this. Denied boarding is actually illegal. Most
                                \_ Grammar that bad should be illegal,
                                   but being denied boarding isn't illegal.
        passengers don't know this so they readilly accept whatever
        compensation they give you. Once you accept it you've signed
        away all your legal rights against the airline. Milk them for
        all they're worth. They knowingly do something illegal. You
        shouldn't let them get away with it.
        -fucked passenger.
        \_ Get a life.  All airlines do this.  Switch airlines, and your
           next carrier will pull the same over you.
2000/11/1-2 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:19620 Activity:very high
10/30   Singapore Air pilots taking off in a storm, weather deteriorating,
        with winds gusting to 65 knots. What the hell were they thinking?
        \_ "We can do it!  I know we can!  I know we can! I know we can!"
           \_ That's generally only the attitude of China Airline pilots, not
              Singapore Airlines ones (nor pilots of other Taiwan airlines).
              Singapore Airlines ones (nor pilots of other Taiwanese airlines).
              \_ Wasn't there a Taiwan airliner went belly-up one or two
                 years ago in Hong Kong airport while lifting up or
                 \_ Yeah.  It was during landing.  That one was due to the
                    sheer wind in the typhoon.  It crashed belly-up and lost
                    one whole wing and caught fire.  Only three out of more
                    than 300 passengers died though.  8/22/99
              \_ A China Airlines flight bound for SFO that was to
                depart an half hour before aborted and
                returned to the gate.
        \_ They ran into something.  I think it's a wheel.
           \_ If it hit a wheel on the ground, how come it didn't crash right
              away, but crashed down to the ground after lifting off?
              \_ Back wheel.
                 \_ Quote: The captain, C.K. Foong, is a Malaysian with lengthy
                    experience. He told investigators that he "saw an
            unlike Chiang Kai-shek INternational Airport"
                    object on the runway and he tried to take off to
                    avoid the object, and he hit the object,"
                    \_ urlP
        \_ "The world's best airline, and one of the safest.
            Until yesterday, Singapore Airlines had never had a fatality -
            unlike Chiang Kai-shek International Airport"
                \_ Clarification- They've had fatalities from hijacking,
                but never from a crash.
              \_ That's if you don't count their subsidiary SilkAir airlines,
                 one of whose planes crashed into a muddy Indonesian river.
                 Some believed it was a successful suicide/murder by the
                 pilot.  That said, I am quite impressed by survivors'
                 accounts of how the SIA crew (Singapore Girls (tm)?)
                 remained calm and directed the passengers out of the
                 flaming wrecked with flashlights in yesterday's disaster.
                 \_ they're all ex-Mossad
                 \_ I guess all that tough training paid off.
                 \_ I am always impressed by the SIA girls. They are sooo
                    nice. Anyone on soda join the mile-high club with a
                    SIA chick?
                    \_ actually yes.  it ended up being a pretty embarrasing
                          \_ do tell. The SIA girls look like they would
                             be quite imaginative and limber...
                       \_ So do they wear undergarments? Those outfits
                          seem to preclude the possibility.
                    \_ What?  If you join its mileage club you get to date
                       one of the girls???  Can't wait to check it out when
                       the SIA web site is up again.
                       \_ Only if you fly first class.
2000/10/2-3 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:19393 Activity:high
10/02   What is a fly boy, or a fly girl?
        \_ Flyboy: Pilot in America's Armed Forces, ca. 1944.
           Fly girl: "In Living Color" dancer, or hot streetwise cutie.
           Fly guy: (archaic) Hip-hop/R&B-style non-scrub man.
           Fly: dope, fresh, cool, ca. 1980-1993.
           Fly: dope, fresh, cool, ca. 1975-1993.
           \_Fly: (constant) zipper that opens up to the crotch in a pair of
           SuperFly: super + (dope, fresh, cool)
           McFly: Loser/Winner (depending on your time traveling abilities)
                \_ Spanish Fly: Herbal supplement causing genital itching
                   (Apparently the spanish think different things are dope.)
           "Aiko Aiko ainess.  My fly boy gonna set your fly boy on fire."
2000/9/28 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:19359 Activity:nil
9/29    FuzzyBuddy: is it true they have this jet flying around Swiss
        airspace with the MickeyD's label painted all over it -
        serving McD's at 10,000 meters? Holy Fondue.  -mtbb
        \_ Yup!  And a McDonalds train car too, where they serve big macs
           to commuters.  And a cheese train and a phantom of the opera
           plane too!  "fire!"  -John
2000/9/26-28 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:19329 Activity:high
9/25    I haven't traveled much in the US. Which is a better airline ? SW ?
        Delta? American?
           \_ Alaska Airlines.
                \_ used to be good.  But remember those maintainance (sic)
                   problems they had with the airplanes?
                   \_ What's the point in living if you can't feel alive?
                        \_  What is life without GLORY??  The GLORY of
                            coming crashing down to earth in a flaming
                            airliner, dying heroically in a ball of fire
                            for no particular reason?
        \_ depends where you want to go.  Each airline has a different hub.
        \_ SW is good and affordable, but if you want to go across the
           coast, you'll have to stop many times.  They only use
           737s, and they have no direct flights from coast to coast.
           \_ aside from SW, United and American are generally solid
              choices.  You may get better deals from other smaller,
              lesser known airlines.
           \_ If you're going for the cheaper flights, everyone will have at
              least one stop.  SW is in the same price range (sometimes
              cheaper, sometimes not) as everyone else, and generally has
              one-stop x-country flights.
        \_ Continental is well regarded by passengers and is also considered
           a good airline for which to work as well (happy employees).  UAL
           has fallen a lot lately in customer satisfaction (and that was
           before the airline/pilot contract negotiations) and their
           employees are not nearly as happy with the airline, especially
           the attendants.  Happy employees make for a somewhat less
           annoying flight. The Continental mileage program is somewhat
           nicer than the UAL one.
           \_ And they'll stick you on the runway without telling you why.
              For six hours.  Like me.
        \_ Alaska Airlines.
           \_ used to be good.  But remember those maintainance (sic)
              problems they had with the airplanes?
              \_ What's the point in living if you can't feel alive?
              \_ What is life without GLORY??  The GLORY of
                 coming crashing down to earth in a flaming
                 airliner, dying heroically in a ball of fire
                 for no particular reason?
                 \_ Watch TWINE and you'll understand.
2000/9/11-12 [Transportation/Airplane, Recreation/Travel] UID:19225 Activity:nil
9/10    How does gasoline work? I tried their stupid airline
        shit and it totally pisses me off
        \_ you pick from a list of participating gas stations in your area;
           you pick from a list of discounted prices (or name your own);
           you agree to prepay for 10-50 gallons (good for 90 days);
           Priceline either matches your price with the station, or if
           your offer is too low, it will direct you to a more discounted
           station or sign up with a sponsor to get a better offer.
           you can only make one gasoline bid every 24 hours.
2000/7/17-18 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:18698 Activity:high
7/17    Why don't they just make airplanes big enough to carry-on big
        luggage instead of dealing with this check-in crap? Why must they
        separate the luggage compartment and the passenger compartment?
        \_ It would cost much more.  The luggage compartment is not pressurized
           or heated (which is why shipping animals as luggage borders on
           torture and so many animals die on planes).
           \_ you do know they have one heated pressurized compartment
              for things like animals don't you?  Or are you just, like
              most people in this world, a colossal idiot who spouts off
              about shit they know nothing about?
                   \_ and the aspca, of course, is an excellent source of
                      unbiased and informed opinions on the subject
                 \_ if you had actually read that article rather than just
                    reacting to the tone you would have noticed that the
                    examples they gave involved pets being put in the wrong
                    splat in its kenal.
                    compartment.  If there were no pressurized compartments
                    EVERY pet that got shipped would come back a bloody
                    splat in its kennel.
                \_ If this is a concern, you can carry-on a small pet as
                long as the the cage is small enough to be considered
                cabin luggage. You'll have to make a request at
                reservations time tho.
        \_ Answer this first: Why don't they just make airplanes seats big
           enough so i can stretch my legs and not have to roll over the lap
           of the female-passenger next to me just to get to the aisle?
           \_ Answer this first: Do you roll over her facing with your
              front or with your ass?
                \_ so how's that working out for you? --aaron
                        \_ better than asian chic  -aaron #1 fan
          \_ Fly first class and you have plenty of room.
2000/7/13-14 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:18665 Activity:nil
7/14    Anyone want to fly from Oakland to LA and back this weekend? I
        bought a ticket on but something came up and those
        bastards wont let me change it. mail me for details.    -rory
        \_ how will you transfer?  They are strict about those.
2000/6/8 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:18430 Activity:nil
6/6     Is there a good chance I'd end up w/ Alaska Airlines if I used
        \_ Don't bother with Priceline.  THe airlines own webites tend to be
           very good, especially Southwest's.  Priceline you either end up
           with no ticket or an overpriced ticket.
        \_ Age of Aquarius
        \_ Convoy!
        \_ is the way to go. You can even chose your airline.
2000/5/17-18 [Transportation/Airplane, Recreation/Travel] UID:18287 Activity:nil
5/17    Any advice?  How much should I underbid?  When
        do prices fall (how long before the flight?)?
        \_ I've had no luck, always got better deals just massaging sabre
        \_ Priceline is a joke.  If you underbid, you get nothing.  If you
           overbid, you pay too much for a flight that may leave at a crappy
           time without you knowing in advance.  Just go to cheaptickets.
        \_ For a full vaction, try a travel agent.  Even with her fees, she
           saved us 10% over what we found on the net with better flights.
2000/4/23-24 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:18087 Activity:high
4/22    Do they allow laptops on airplanes? can I use one when it is in
      the air?
      \_ yes, but they have this ridiculous rule about not allowing
         them to be used in takeoff or landing.  they also have a
         stupid rule not allowing radio recievers during flight since
         they might "disrupt" radio communications and cause a plane
         to fall out of the sky. obviously the faa doesn't know the
         first thing about electrical engineering.  either that or
         they're just assuming that most flight attendants are too
         stupid to distinguish between an fm radio and a bomb
           \_ this stupid rule of theirs has always pissed me off
              \_ Yeah, not crashing the plane or delaying take off
                 because every fucking idiot insists that *his* 2-way radio
                 is airplane safe is really stupid.  Grow up.
      \_ Yes. Why dont you call your airline and ask to make sure?
      \_ Yes they do, but they ask you not to use CD/DVD drives.  -John
2000/2/13 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:17500 Activity:nil
2.11    Name my band:  We don't like our current name, "The Flying Jesuses"
        somebody suggest something.
        \_ RIDE BIKE!
        \_ The Trevor Buckinghams
        \_ The Flying Jesi.
        \_ Kchang and the Asian Chics
        \_ ED! ED! ED is the STANDARD!s
        \_ The motds
        \_ RDRAM 1000s
        \_ if you were ever willing to have a name like that your band must be
           so ass it isn't worth a waste of a good name.
           \_ Hey, that's a pretty good one.
           \_ judge for yourself. ~paolo/public_html/superman.mp3
              and come to the show on lower sproul Mar 3rd, 12 noon.
2000/2/6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:17443 Activity:nil
2/5     Anyone have cheap Alaska Airlines tickets they won't be using?
2000/2/1 [Transportation/Airplane, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:17393 Activity:insanely high
2/1     Gee, how many planes have crashed in the past 12 months?  Seems like
        it has happened much more frequently than before.
        \_ No more so than usual and still far less than linux boxes crash
           going by the numbers.  I'd rather fly than use linux.
           \_ Oh, this is utter bullshit. In last two years only two Linux
              boxes crashed on me and it was because of either hardware
              problems or power failures (fucking up my disks).
              linux than to a 737.
           \_ Oh yeah, Linux is really known for crashing.  If someone asked
              me what OS I thought of when I heard the word "crash" then Linux
        \_ Let's see, recent major US plane crashes:
           \_ i've been using linux for 2 years and the most that has
                2000: Alaska Airlines, off coast of LA
                1999: EgyptAir, off coast of Mass.
              linux than to a 737 (actually, i don't trust my life to either
                1996: TWA, off coast of NY
                \_ So you'd fly with Linux Airlines and die only once per two
           Yeah, I see the trend, really....
           \_ what about JFK and those small airplanes?
                        \_ There is a trend there - don't fly overseas - stay
                           in the states and you'll be safer.
                \_ Do missile attacks really count?
                \_ for the full list
                        \_ I was keeping a list of VMS crashes across the
                        \_ I was keeping a list of Ultrix crashes across the
                           U.S. but ran out of disk space so I dropped the
                   consumer level OS such as linux or windows to not crash.
                           security breaches due to bugs or misconfiguration
                   your linux lifespan would be a few months.  Fly the friendly
                           and then compressed the rest.  Looking for disk
                           webmaster@ to donate disks,
                           donations to continue the project.  Please contact
        \_ No more so than usual and still far less than VMS boxes crash
           going by the numbers.  I'd rather fly than use VMS.
           \_ Oh yeah, VMS is really known for crashing.  If someone asked
              me what OS I thought of when I heard the word "crash" then VMS
                           webmaster@<DEAD><DEAD> to donate disks,
                \_ VMS fanatics are so cute when they're defending their
                           money, or time!  Thanks!
        \_ No more so than usual and still far less than Ultrix boxes crash
           going by the numbers.  I'd rather fly than use Ultrix.
           \_ I can see airlines using VMS. "Oh, we found a defect, but
           \_ Oh yeah, Ultrix is really known for crashing.  If someone asked
              me what OS I thought of when I heard the word "crash" then Ultrix
           \_ i've been using VMS for 2 years and the most that has
              would be it.  Not some OS from Redmond.
                \_ Ultrix fanatics are so cute when they're defending their
              VMS than to a 737 (actually, i don't trust my life to either
                   cute little OS.  I really like the "everything looks like
                        \_ VMS users have over a 99% chance of experiencing
                   a nail" mentality.
                   \_ The hoary "cute... immature" insult is your hammer.
           \_ I can see airlines using Ultrix. "Oh, we found a defect, but
              we patched it almost immediately (go Open Source)!. So just
                \_ So you'd fly with VMS Airlines and die only once per two
              ignore that one crash that killed 500."
           \_ i've been using Ultrix for 2 years and the most that has
              happened is one kernel panic.  that in contrast to 2 crashes
              per day when i was using windows.  i'd trust my life more to
              Ultrix than to a 737 (actually, i don't trust my life to either
              but what can you do).
                        \_ Ultrix users have over a 99% chance of experiencing
                           a kernel crash at some point.  737 users have less
                           than a one in many million chance of experiencing a
                   consumer level OS such as VMS or windows to not crash.
                           plane crash.  You sir are either suicidal or an
                   your VMS lifespan would be a few months.  Fly the friendly
                \_ So you'd fly with Ultrix Airlines and die only once per two
                   years when you have that rare kernel panic?  This is a funny
                   analogy and statement to make since there's that famous
                   (in the industry) speech by the airline guy that compares
                   flight time safety vs. computer uptimes given at a computer
                   convention.  The airline guy properly shamed the computer
                   execs in attendence.  You've been in computers for, what,
                   like 2 years at most?  Don't be silly.  If my life depended
                   on it, I'd trust the airlines to keep me alive and flying
                   every single day forever before I trusted any shrink wrap
                   consumer level OS such as Ultrix or windows to not crash.
                   Your windows life span would be a few weeks at most and
                   your Ultrix lifespan would be a few months.  Fly the friendly
                   skies, it's a whole lot safer.
                \_ If a plane you were flying in were controlled by an OS,
                        what OS would it be?
                        \_ vxWorks
                           \_ The Mars Pathfinder ran VxWorks, but did the two
                              other vehicles that were lost recently also run
                                \_ VxWorks crashed on the Pathfinder!  They
                                   had to upload an OS patch to the surface
                                   of Mars!  -tom
                        \_ A mainframe that'd been handling air traffic control
                           for year after year without failure and hard wired
                           components in the air.  That you would think an
                           airplane uses or needs an OS says a lot about how
                           little you understand about computers, embedded
                           systems, air planes, air traffic control and just
                           about anything else related to this thread.
                           \_ hey, its all hypothetical.  Its not supposed
                              to match reality.  Its like:
                                If you were a peanut, where would you like
                                to vacation?
                              The main idea in the question is:
                                If your life depended on it, what OS would
                                you use?
                                \_ Nothing you could buy in a store or download
                                   from the net.  I'd be dead within a matter
                                   of weeks, or a few months at best.  "Sir,
                                   it is my sad duty to report to you that the
                                   results of your medical tests have come back
                                   positive... you are suffering from 'consumer
                                   level OS syndrome'!"  Put me on a mainframe.
                                   The kind with multiple level of redundant
                                   backup systems for everything in there so
                                   when the nukes hit I can keep on ticking
                                   and still have the power to count how many
                                   people died per time unit in the blast.
                                \_ tell that to the people trying to use BFS
                                   today.  -tom
           \_ RIDE BIKE!  FLY LINUX!
1999/11/4-5 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:16829 Activity:high
11/3    How do AF pilots know whether to deploy chaff or flair? Wouldn't
        they need to know whether they are being aimed by heat seeking
        missile or radar guided missile?
        \_ It's a Hollywood thing.  Ask your flight combat instructor or
           script writer for details.
        \_ same way a police radar detector knows when a police radar
           gun is painting the car.  usually, if it's coming from
           another plane it's heat seeking.  even the u.s. rarely uses
           radar guided missles from planes.  low altitude surface to
           air missles are usually heat seeking too and high altitude
           ones are a combo of both.
           \_ that's not quite correct. it's about range. a heat seeking
              missile can only be fired at a closer range. the reason why
              the U.S. rarely uses radar-guided is because at BVR, you can't
              be too sure of the target due to ROE, even with an AWACs.
              there radars can discern between radar and heating seeking
              same reason why the Phoenix has never been used in combat.
        \_ They do know.  Didn't you see Top Gun?
              deploy chaff or flairs.
              \_ "their", "flare"
               \_ it is all about bellbottoms
              \_ What are BVR, ROE and AWAC?
              \_ Inaccurate?  You mean pilots don't have tacky colored
                 helmets and sleep with their hot flight instructors?
                        \-dont ask dont tell --psb
                 Beyond Visual Range, Rules Of Engagement, Airbone Warning
                 And Control (plane).
           \_ Top Gun was horribly inaccurate movie. Pilots know because
              their radars can discern between radar and heating seeking
        \_ I think you're screwed if it's heat-seeking with no radar
        \_ radar guided missiles emit strong radar signatures while heat
           sinking missiles don't. If the aircraft is equipped with that
           super high-tech radar stuff, a heat seaker looks like a really
           small fast metal thing coming right at you while a radar guided
           missile looks like a really small fast metal thing coming right
           at you and emitting its own radar signals making it a really,
           really bright small fast metal thing. Additionally, it amazes
           me how any of you got into cal. With any small amount of
            \_ yeah and as if your answer shows that you know what you are
               talking about.
           thought, a question like this is absolutely trivial but to
           assume berkeley fuckers will think for themselves has proven
           time and time again to be a fruitless waste of time. I have
           decided to take advantage of this lazy intellect by feeding the
           thoughts of other to one day convince you all I am your messiah
           at which point I would train you all to follow the exhalted
           and transcendental path of the lemming. - (fucker)
              and notify their pilots of this through unique squeek sounds
              heard in their headset. Also some systems can be set to auto
              deploy chaff or flares
1999/7/6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:16082 Activity:very high
7/6     Do you guys know how Jon Denver died?
        \_ plane crash
                \_ Which one? Delta? Southwest?
           \_ more specifically, he was an amateur pilot. he fucked up and
              crashed his one-seater.
                \_ Wasn't he flying an experimental aircraft as well?
                   \_ Yes he was, it was obviously a conspiracy.
1999/6/29-30 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:16034 Activity:insanely high
6/28    I want to join the USAF. I am only 26 years old. However, to
                \_ There's your real problem right there.
        be eligible to be a pilot, I need to finish the cadet training
        before I am 27.5. Why 27.5? Isn't it usually better to be older
        (and more experienced) than some inexperienced young guy?
        \_ You also have to have 20/20 vision in both eyes (which I guess
                you probably don't, by virtue of the fact that you
           \_ I'm 29.  Does it happen like magic when I hit 30?
              \_ Yes. Ask your girl/boyfriend.
                use the CSUA).  A friend of mine is on a USAF military
                scholarship in medical school, and when she got
                her eyes checked, one eye was 25/20, and the other
                \_ You'll be laughed out of court since there's a valid
                   medical reason.
                   \_ Medical reason being I'm not in my sexual prime anymore.
                was 20/20, and she wasn't eligible, not that it
                mattered, since she's going to be a doc and not a pilot
                anyway.  --pcjr
        \-it might be economics ... they feel it isnt worth investing the
        big$ in someone who will be a pilot for less than N years...and the
        age you start is a predictor of how long you will be a AF pilot. --psb
                \_ Considering all flying is done by computer, why do
                   you even have to have eyes to fly anymore?
                   \_ Actually, very little of the avionics is controlled
                      by computers at all.  Many are fly by wire which means
                      that humans still have complete control.  On planes
                      that look completely outragous (like man of the stealth
                      planes in the US arsenal) the planes would simply fall
                      out of the sky if there weren't any computer assistance.
                \_ According to, it must be no worse
        \_ because when you hit 30, you become slow and stupid and you are
           not as physically buff as before
                   than 20/50 correctable to 20/20 with eyeglasses.
                \_ the navy required 20/20 to enter flight training around '90
                   but would allow some correctives for operational pilots.
        \_ How does it help to be "more experienced" in anything other than
           flying a plane? sheesh... this isn't a programming position...
        \_ so sue the USAF for age discrimination.  Good luck on the suit.
        \_ The govt. doesn't want to waste money training pilots who will
           be too old to fly in a couple of years.
                \_ Wait, isn't this age discrimination?
1999/6/15-17 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:15960 Activity:nil
6/14    Which game is better, Microsoft's Flight Simulator 98 or
        Sierra's Pro Pilot?
        \_ and what about Flight Unlimited II?
        \_ Well I have FS98, and I wouldn't call it a game. Its a flight sim,
           pretty much all you do is fly around. -ERic
1999/5/10-12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:15783 Activity:moderate
5/10    Does anyone know the National average salary of an airplane
        pilot? What about aviation related jobs? Thanks
        \_ $115K/year (assuming you meant for all commercial pilots, wish
           I could give you a break-down by exp / specific field)
           \_ My NT sysadmin makes more than that!
              \_ then you have an idiot for a hiring manager
        \_ Do they really make that much? It cost me  mucho to get a
           Berkeley education, yet, if I go to a flying school for
           $6000 for a license and aeronautic degree, I can already
           get paid $115K?
           \_ You'll need to join the air force, be good enough to get a
              a fighter plane, and then bomb smaller countries before you
              can earn 115k with the airlines.  -jor
           \_ Sodan needs clue, badly.
           \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
              gawd i hope there's not a sysadmin equivalent of this page
              \_ Wow, that's one of the most impressive pages I've ever
                 seen.  --jnat
              \_ Wow, that's one of the most on-target (oi, bad pun) pages
                I've ever seen, particularly given that the alternative
                transportation movement is in the middle of a similar
                false reporting about the costs of providing facilities,
                by the media and the special interests that control the
                media.  --jnat
              \_ good page,except there's no such thing as
                a"Cross-country" license (it's covered in the Private
                Pilot requirement)
1998/4/17-18 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13978 Activity:high
4/17    Thanks to everyone who helped with airfare suggestions.  Last night
        United opened up some cheaper seats (thank goodness!).  For those
        of you who are still students, the TWA student pack is indeed a good
        deal and you may want to check it out.  --tabloyd
        \_ Hey, tabloyd, you secretly got married with norby without telling
           the soda community!
           \_ you say that as if it were a bad thing.
                \_ shit, norby's more sick minded than I thought.
                \_Heh, we certainly didn't keep it a secret ... we just didn't
                  feel any need to announce it in the motd!
           \_ How did norby and tabloyd first meet?  Did norby hit on
              tabloyd with write and hit jackpot?
                \_Uh, no.  Thank goodness -- I'd have ignored him if he'd
                  tried the write thing -- it's so cliche...
                \_ I used the old lame excuse "It's dark, I'll walk you home"
                   to get into her place, then raped her and we became
                   famously in love.  It was so romantic living out the Luke
                   And Laura story in real life.   -norby
                   \_ This is just ultra-rude
                        \_ Go ahead, lie, say you didn't laugh, or at least
                           \_ I didn't laugh.  I didn't even smile -aspo
                           \_ I laughed.  I cried.  It was better than Cats!
1998/4/17 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13976 Activity:high
4/16    I need to buy tickets to fly to Newark in slightly over two weeks.
        The costs I'm being quoted are outrageous ($770+rt) using & calling the airlines directly.  Any suggestions
        of other, possibly cheaper places to check?  Thanks!  --tabloyd
        \_ buying tickets less than 30 days in advance is way expensive
           \_Yes, thank you, I'm aware of that.  It's unavoidable in this case.
             That's why I'm asking if anyone knows a (legal) way to help
             save at least a little money on this...
             \_ I think flying standby is cheaper
        \_ If twa flies there, there's a travel pack, 4 one ways to
           anywhere for about 500.  You might want to call for info.
           flights need to be booked 14 days in advanced.
        \_ Try STA at the MLK Student Center. I flew from SFO to Newark to
           Detroit and back for about $400 this past winter break through
        \ lists a flight on United from SFo to EWR for 5/1
          for $624.  It's not dirt cheap, but...
1998/2/1 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13603 Activity:nil
1/31    how do you all make flight plans?  ive called the airlines
        and looked at web pages, etc.  does anybody have a good
        travel agent (i prefer if theyre in berkeley/albany area)
        they can recommend?  im kind of getting stressed wondering
        if im getting ripped off or not.             --hahnak
2019/01/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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