Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2004/2/11 [Computer/Rants] UID:12206 Activity:moderate
2/11  Here is what I think will happen to the hi-tech industry as the
      outsourcing trend continues:  The data-entry, call center, and back
      offce jobs will continue to move to india.  That won't stop.  There
      will continue to be small increases in higher paying SW/HW engineering,
      sysadmin type jobs. But we won't reach the tech employment levels
      like in 1999 or 2000.  The one thing that will change is that people
      who didn't do their bachelors in CS or EE or who went to third tier
      schools will have a hard time finding work.  You have to justify the
      80+K salaries somehow.  Only the best will remain.  During the boom
      years, a lot of people got into tech just for the money.  They weren't
      any good at it but got hired anyways because there was a labor
      shortage.  -tawei
        \_ what makes you think that someone who got a bachelors in a non-cs
           field and/or went to a third tier school isn't one of the best?
           \_ where you go the education from  won't reall matter as much as
              drive, and well as always, your contacts.
              \_ and, of course, whether you can speak and write intelligibly.
              \_ there are mediocre survivors, even now. they are either
                 lucky or have (office) political connections. survival of
                 the fittest doesn't always imply technical pedigree.
        \_ Quick!  A Controvercial Thread!  Kill It!!!
        \_ From what I've heard about the top Indian IT firms, I won't be
           surprised when mid-level dev jobs start moving too.  The quality
           is there, it seems.  These arguments are always funny too because
           of the obvious implicit assumption that the arguer is "one of the
           best."
        \_ What about System Administration jobs?
           \_ heh, sure, try to outsource sysadmin jobs offshore.
2004/2/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12207 Activity:nil
2/11    Excellent and disturbing report on the 9/11 commission's investigation
        and some unanswered questions:
        http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage1.asp
2004/2/11-12 [Recreation/Humor] UID:12208 Activity:nil
2/11    Hey AMC, are you back?  motd is funny again. THANK YOU!  -AMC #1 fan
        \_ It's a quiet time at my company.  I toss in something here and
           there when I can.  -AMC
2004/2/11-12 [Recreation/Celebrity/WilliamHung] UID:12209 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto 59%like:12223
2/11    Singaporean women to rip William Hung's clothes off?
        http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/11/BAGCM4U0UR1.DTL
        \_ They just want to know the same thing we all do.  Is William well
           hung?
             \_ no no, its "How is William Hung?"
                \_ I can't even count the number of ways this thread is
                   disturbing.
        \_ I saw his original audition video on a website, and really
           don't find anything that makes him so special.  Why are
           people so obsessed over him?
           \_ I don't understand why people are still watching this show.
              It's the same crap repeated over and over again with
              different losers each time.
           \_ I think it's the wide-eyedness of his performance.  He doesn't
              hold anything back, and isn't concerned at all with how he
              appears.  He's going balls out for something he wants, and is
              totally unashamed.  I think people find it very refreshing, as
              well as extremely funny. --scotsman
        \_ Some Chinese people I know (yes I'm Chinese too) won't pursue
           news on this, they say from his photo he looks mentally handicapped,
           and they think it's in poor taste to make fun of him.  Conversely,
           when he talks and from his quotes and major at Berkeley, he seems
           intelligent.
           \_ he may not be a retard, but i doubt he's that smart either.
              he somehow got it in his head from winning a silly dorm
              contest that he was cut out for singing.
           \_ From some viewing angles he looks like he has down's syndrome,
              but I don't think he does.
        \_ for those who are in the dark:  http://williamhung.net
        \_ singaporean women's comments:
           http://www.williamhung.net/wst_page10.html
        \_ Thanks for the great info.  This dude is cool.  Is he from
           Singapore?  I am going to forward this to my berkeley
           singaporean buddies from the good old days. - motd resident sporean
           \_ Darn!  He is from Hong Kong.  Hong Kong always beat us.
2004/2/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:12210 Activity:nil
2/11    Wow, the Blade Runner thread actually made me laugh.  Motd hasn't
        done that in awhile, thank you!
        \_ You're welcome.  Glad you enjoyed it. :)
        \_ one of the city papers asked those questions of the mayoral
           candidates... it was pretty awesome.  Ammiano was the funniest.
           Q:  But you're not helping.  Why?
           A:  I don't know.  Maybe I'm a Republican?
           \_ URL?
              \_ http://csua.org/u/44k
                 \_ Thanks!
        \_ i interviewed a vp of engineering who, for company political
           reasons, i was dead set against hiring.  so we small talked
           during the interview, then i asked, "You're in a desert,
           walking along when..."  the guy was very confused by the
           question too.
           \_ Is this testing whether I'm a replicant, or a lesbian?
              \_ i would have given the guy points if he knew enough
                 to ask that.
           \_ Good to know he didn't blow you away.
              \_ well, we're not allowed to talk about personal matters
                 during an interview, so i couldn't ask him about his
                 mother.
           \_ When I worked at AskJeeves, it was common practice to run
              the VK both on our own engine (dead failure) or other so-
              called natural language search engines or AI models (dead
              funny failures).  Ah, how those dotcom hours flittered away.
        \_ So was Decker a replicant?
           \_ That's Deckard.  According to Ridley Scott, he definitely
              was, and there are clues throughout the movie that point
              towards this.  The Director's Cut restores the final clue,
              the unicorn dream, which makes the final origami message from
              the policeman (a unicorn) make sense.  Of course if you're
              talking about the book, the answer is definitely no.
           \_ In addition to the unicorn stuff mentioned above, how do you
              thing a normal human could take the physical punishment he took
              during some of those fights (in the movie) and not only survive
              but so quickly recover and shrug off the shock, pain, blood loss
              and physical damage that should have knocked him out cold if not
              outright killed him?  (yes, that's one really long sentence)
              \_ Um.  Action hero clause?  Unless you think Arnie played an
                 android in all those movies of his... no wait...
                 \_ Hey! No normal human could run that dumb a campaign
                    and still with an election in the biggest state in the
                    Union!  He must be a replicant.
                 \_ Normally yes but in this case there's a clear "humans vs.
                    non-humans" thing going on which is the entire point of
                    the movie.  It was a better movie than to just go for
                    the Arnold Clause.
2004/2/11-12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:12211 Activity:nil
2/11    What's the best way to compare the similarity of 2 files using the
        Bayes NSP package: http://www.d.umn.edu/~tpederse/nsp.html ?
        count.pl gives me a lot of useless numbers...
2004/2/11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:12212 Activity:nil
2/11    danh and other people who keep a RCS log of motd, could you please
        put yout RCS file,v on your public_html directory for a few hours
        so that I can download it? Thanks!
        \_ why dont you copy it to your public_html
        \_ or why don't you use sftp to get it?
2004/2/11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:12213 Activity:moderate
2/11    You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of a sudden-
        \_ What one?
           \_ What?
              \_ What desert?
                 \_ It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's
                    completely hypothetical.
                    \_ It does matter which desert. I want to know if I find
                       WMD.
                    \_ But how can I be there?
                       \_ Maybe you're fed up, maybe you want to be by
                          yourself, who knows?
                 \_ Free Palestine! Push the Israelis into the sea!
                    \_ Go to hell, you anti-semite!
                       \_ Hitler, Hitler, Hitler!
                          \_ http://csua.org/u/5ye
                          \_ Quirk's Exception: Intentional invocation of this
                             so-called "Nazi Clause" is ineffectual.
        You look down and you see a tortoise, it's crawling toward you-
        \_ Tortoise? What's that? urlP
           \_ http://csua.org/u/5yd
           \_ Know what a turtle is?
              \_ Of course.
                 \_ Same thing.
                    \_ I've never seen a turtle. But I understand what you
                       mean.
        You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back.
        \_ Do you make up these questions, or do they write them down for you?
           \_ They're just questions. In answer to your query, they're
              written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an
              emotional response.
                \- do you use different questions for non-whites? -psb
              \_ RIDE BIKE! USE LINUX!
        \_ I use magic missile on the darkness!
           \_ lightning bolt!  /csua/tmp/other-larpers.mpeg
        The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun
        beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it can't, not without
        your help, but you're not helping.
        \_ What do you mean I'm not helping?
           \_ I mean, you're not helping. Why is that?
              \_ The tortoise should help itself.  If it can't, it's weak
                 and deserves to die.
                 \_ Well, you know what Stalin said about tortoises.
                    \_ "I don't care.  I want one.  In my soup.  Now."
                    \_ Bad troll, no cookie.
                 \_ Stop overwriting my posts!
                    \_ Use motdedit like the rest of us.
                       \_ 'Like the rest of us'?  You mean all two of you?
                          Get serious.
                       \_ Never!
                          \_ Then tough.
        Shall we continue? Describe in single words, only the good things
        that come in to your mind about: your mother.
        \_ My mother?
           \_ Yeah.
              \_ Let me tell you about my mother.
              \_ Let me tell you about yermom.
        \_    j_gurli3: i start unbuttoning ur shirt.
              bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't wear shirts.
              j_gurli3: No, ur not really a Rhinocerus silly, it's just part of
                        the game.
              bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge
                          your ass.
2004/2/11-12 [Science/Battery] UID:12214 Activity:nil
2/11    I've been looking at NiMH batteries, and there seem to be some brands
        that are popular even though they seem like relatively small, unknown
        brands. Any recommendations on which brands to go with? Thanks.
        \_ I've been happy with my PowerEx AAs (2200 mAh).
        \_ first link for nimh battery (thomas distro) is a good site.
           typing in battery nimh takes you to the great battery shootout,
           also a good site. rule of the thumb: the more mah, the better.
2004/2/11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:12215 Activity:high
2/10    Is clearcase much superior over CVS? I've never used clearcase
        before, only cvs and sourcesafe. I need it for binary files
        only. Does the commercial product offer compelling value?
        Thanks, --williamc
        \_ Clearcase is really ment for the thousand person development
           team with multiple concurrent branches of development on
           several architectures, etc. It works pretty well if you can
           throw lots of big iron at it and you have an army of
           sysadmins to keep it happy.
           There are certains things I liked about it (versioned
           objects, views) but if you are a 1-50 person group CC is
           overkill.
           \_ if you need an army of sysadmins to keep a single clearcase
              system happy you need new sysadmins.  --sysadmin
                \_ not neccesarily an army of sysadmins, but for a decent size
                   company with a few different vobs and plenty of views, you
                   will eventually need a build engineer as well and probably
                   a toolsmith (if not the same guy) just to keep clearcase
                   managable and happy and to keep the engineers from doing
                   very destructive things.
                \_ While I suppose that a single system running
                   running the clearcase server might be enough
                   for a small shop, ever place I've seen it
                   each site had several clustered systems
                   running the vobs and doing replication and
                   such.
                   \_ ok, 2 sysadmins and a 3rd because someone will quit or
                      be sick sometimes.
        \_ For a smaller project you might want to look at perforce instead of
           clearcase.  It gives you changelists, views, good branching support,
           and a decent ui as well as powerful command line tools.  Not to
           mention it is pretty damn cheap.
           \_ yes... it's better than cvs, and 20x better than vss
           \_ $750 per for 1-20 licenses is cheap?  ok, cheaper than $100k
              for a dc or gazillion for magma.  but then cvs is free and
              works well enough for most stuff.
2004/2/11-12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:12225 Activity:high
2/11    I have proof that 9/11 was staged by our government:
        http://www.the-movement.com/air%20operation/Journey.htm
        \_ This ain't proof, just a bunch of rambling thrown
           in with a few coincidences.
        \_ The very concept is so ridiculous I don't see a reason to waste
           the wear and tear on my mouse to click the link.
           \_ even if you don't agree, aren't you curious?
              \_ no, I've been on the net for 20 years, how much more lunacy
                 should i subject myself to until I can stop being curious?
           \_ Remember The Maine!
              \_ Similar but no-go.  A good shot at it, though.
        \_ All the "9/11 never happened" people are just radicals who want
           to overthrow the US government.  [formatd]
           \_ As soon as we draft the general we'll take over and reshape the
              country, no!, the world in our image!  It shall be glorious!
        \_ In a similar vein, I have evidence that Flight 93 was
           really shot down by the govt:
           http://www.flight93crash.com
           \_ Oklahoma City was done by an Iraqi conspiracy, and the US
              government is covering it up!
              http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/021022a.asp
        \_ Do you have the whacky links 'proving' that the pentagon wasn't
           even hit by a plane?  Those are the best.
           \_ yes, I would like to see those too.
           to overthrow the US government.
2004/2/11-12 [Uncategorized] UID:12226 Activity:nil
2/11    Howdy, my brother Todd will be reading from his new collection of
        poetry in New York city on the 18th.  Drop me an email if you're
        interested and I'll send you the specifics. - dans
        \_ Will this be better than the last poetry slam at the berkeley
           public library?
           \_ Yes.
        \_ How many artist brothers do you have?
           \_ I have three siblings.  My eldest brother Todd is a poet in New
              York, my elder brother Brad is a painter in San Francisco, and
              my younger sister is a former olympic-class ice dancer (now
              retired) currently attending Cornell. -dans
              \_ ice dancer?  got pics?
                 \_ Google you pervy moron. -dans
                    \_ She's cute in a Sarah Silverman sort of way, but is
                       she as raunchy and humorous?
                       \_ Who's Sarah Silverman (I don't care enough to bother
                          googling)?  Have you ever met me?  If I am
                          sufficiently raunchy and humorous, then yes.  It
                          runs in the family. -dans
                          \_ Raunchy?  I guess, but in a trying way too hard
                             kind of way.  Humorous?  Only if you find jerks
                             funny.
                             \_ You'd do well not to confuse folks who are
                                trying to hard with folks who genuinely don't
                                care if they offend you.  As justification for
                                being a jerk, all I can say in my defense is
                                you did something to deserve it, and
                                belligerency is the underappreciated artform of
                                our time. -dans
              \_ Huh. So are those brothers able to make a living at just art?
                 \_ Nope.  Both are working on it. (TM)
                    \_ Ok, that confirms my cynical worldview, thanks. I bet
                       your parents wish they were lawyers.
2004/2/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:29792 Activity:moderate
2/10    Why was the outsourcing thread deleted?!  I thought it was
        relevant material for the CSUA and it clearly had a lot
        of interest.
        \_ racism.
           \_ what racism? you stupid censoring git.
              \_ Omg, he was serious!?  I think I see what the motd censor's
                 trip is now.  He is the solemn faced enforcer of higher
                 human values on the motd.  Yeah that's it.  It's a thankless
                 job but someone has to do, when we grow up we ll thank him,
                 etc.
                 \_ We'll grow up and pretend baaad stuff like racism doesn't
                    exist. Racism cannot be discussed among us children.
                    The world is made of sanitized plastic and we should all
                    post about C++ and RFCs with shit-eating grins on our faces.
2004/2/11 [Uncategorized] UID:29793 Activity:nil
2/10    oh jeez... nweaver enjoying more of his 15 minutes of fame for
        more "Warhol worm" analysis:
        http://snipurl.com/4f09   [nytimes magazine]
        \_ hey a man's gotta take what he can get.  you'd do the same.  if he's
           smart he'll spin this into a full fledged security company and
           retire wealthy while you're still a virgin.
           \_ Don't you mean, while Nick's still a virgin?
        \_ Do I detect a note of Jealousy?
           \_ no. try an entire fucking wagnerian opera.
2004/2/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:29794 Activity:very high 61%like:29799
2/10    How to display column number in emacs? Thanks.
        \_ I'm always baffled at motd posters who (1) ask questions that
           begin with the grammatically incorrect "How to..." and (2)
           don't konw how to use http://google.com.
           \_ you are baffled too easily. (1) you can tell the guy is
              a fob and (2) not the brightest bulb in the bunch.
              \_ so (3) ship him back.
           \_ Is "Investing How To Guide" grammatically correct?
              \_ No, it isn't, but that's no excuse for poor grammar elsewhere.
           \_ I'm so sick of all this grammar-correcting motd bullshit.
              Isn't there some saying like "if someone speaks english
              worse than you it probably means they speak some 2nd
              language better" ? that is hippie bumpersticker talk,
              but a relevant point nonetheless. get a life. anyway,
              you're probably just jealous because some fob with
              broken english got that chinese girl you were oggling in
              class.
              \_ No, this whole asking a question with "How to..." has
                 been brought up over and over on the motd (check the
                 archives). If you make a mistake, it's okay. But if
                 someone corrects you over and over again and you haven't
                 learned your lesson then there's really something wrong
                 with you. You should at least TRY.
              \_ have you actually looked at the chinese girls on campus?  and
                 no, generally bi-lingual people are shitty are both languages.
                 being better at some third world language is useless if you're
                 in a first world english speaking country.
                 \_ really?  chang-lin tien's english kind of sucks, yet
                    he functioned pretty well, and his chinese came in
                    useful in persuading chinese tycoons like tan kah kee
                    to part with their hard earned money.  Being bi-
                    lingual is a fantastic advantage.
                    \_ it probably helped that he wasn't dumb.
        \_ (custom-set-variables '(column-number-mode t))
           \- dear anonymous motd grammar coward: if you are willing to
              de-anonimize yourself, i am willing to give you a
              little grammar quiz, and we can really plumb the depth of
              your grammar chops or see if you are YetAnotherRatcheter.
                                 --psb, third world lanaguage speaker
              \_ Oh dear! Here goes psb again with his "holier than
                 thou" crap. Partha, don't you have a degree to earn?
              \_ lanaguage eh?
2004/2/11 [Transportation/Car] UID:29795 Activity:nil
2/10    Is it normal for my transmission fluid level to appear to be
        higher when my engine is cold?  I would expect that, like oil,
        it would appear higher when the engine is warm.  If anyone can
        explain, please do.
        \_ fluid measurements must reflect reservoir or sedentary levels.
           now imagine what happens to that level due to churn and
           displacement.
2004/2/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Computer/SW/Security] UID:29796 Activity:very high
2/10    I'm beginning to think mandatory military service should be instituted
        in the USA, say for 2 years after high school. It would help all these
        kids to grow up, learn to be away from home and stop being pansies.
        They'd be older and more mature going into college, and maybe have a
        better sense of direction and perspective in life. It would force rich
        kids to serve alongside poor kids and make people care more about US
        policy and think about what it means to live here.
        \_ Back in MY day, sonny, we walked six miles uphill through the snow
           to do our military service! [again, restored]
           \_ Uphill both ways?
        \_ This isn't Israel or Singapore where land is scarce and border
           security requires every able body to participate in the armed
           forces. Having such a large non-volunteer force would have no
           practical value to the security of this country
           \_ Ok 2 years is too much, I was just reading how Euro countries do
              it. 9 mo. would still be good, plus there is the possibility of
              alternate service in something like Peace Corps. There is all
              kinds of stuff they could do. There are lots of non-combat roles
              in all the military branches too.
              \- would you make females and homosexuals serve? --psb
2004/2/11 [Uncategorized] UID:29797 Activity:nil
2/10    *sigh* [Restored]
        The ultimate rice burner
        http://members.madasafish.com/~dingsdale/i-1_B_L.JPG
2004/2/11 [Recreation/Dating] UID:29798 Activity:nil
2/10    For those of you interested in non-Hallmark brand greeting cards
        for Valentines day, a friend of mine does hand-made ones.
        http://tobyzdesign.com
2004/2/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29799 Activity:nil 61%like:29794
2/10    How to display column number in emacs? Thanks.
        [ relevant responses moved to the top ]
        \_ (custom-set-variables '(column-number-mode t))
        \_ (setq column-number-mode t)
        \_ I'm always baffled at motd posters who (1) ask questions that
           begin with the grammatically incorrect "How to..." and (2)
           don't konw how to use http://google.com.
           \_ you are baffled too easily. (1) you can tell the guy is
              a fob and (2) not the brightest bulb in the bunch.
              \_ so (3) ship him back.
           \_ Is "Investing How To Guide" grammatically correct?
              \_ No, it isn't, but that's no excuse for poor grammar elsewhere.
           \_ I'm so sick of all this grammar-correcting motd bullshit.
              Isn't there some saying like "if someone speaks english
              worse than you it probably means they speak some 2nd
              language better" ? that is hippie bumpersticker talk,
              but a relevant point nonetheless. get a life. anyway,
              you're probably just jealous because some fob with
              broken english got that chinese girl you were oggling in
              class.
              \_ No, this whole asking a question with "How to..." has
                 been brought up over and over on the motd (check the
                 archives). If you make a mistake, it's okay. But if
                 someone corrects you over and over again and you haven't
                 learned your lesson then there's really something wrong
                 with you. You should at least TRY.
                 \_ TRY to get over it, you mean? yes, people have posted
                    this way, and people have continued to bitch about it.
                    so why dont the bitchers just get used to it. frankly,
                    i am a quite competent english speaker but
                    occasionally find that phrasing quick and convenient.
                    isn't computer stuff all about shorthand anyway? and
                    furthermore, its vaguely reminiscent of the whole
                    Linux how-to culture.
              \_ have you actually looked at the chinese girls on campus?  and
                 no, generally bi-lingual people are shitty are both languages.
                               \- would you care to name an authority
                                  who recommends hyphenating the word
                                  "bi-lingual" [sic] ? --psb
                 being better at some third world language is useless if you're
                 in a first world english speaking country.
                 \_ really?  chang-lin tien's english kind of sucks, yet
                    he functioned pretty well, and his chinese came in
                    useful in persuading chinese tycoons like tan kah kee
                    to part with their hard earned money.  Being bi-
                    lingual is a fantastic advantage.
                    \_ it probably helped that he wasn't dumb.
           \- dear anonymous motd grammar coward: if you are willing to
              de-anonimize yourself, i am willing to give you a
              little grammar quiz, and we can really plumb the depth of
              your grammar chops or see if you are YetAnotherRatcheter.
                                 --psb, third world lanaguage speaker
              \_ so, what's this grammar quiz you speak of? let's see it.
              \_ Oh dear! Here goes psb again with his "holier than
                 thou" crap. Partha, don't you have a degree to earn?
                 \- how am i being holier than thou? i am perhaps throwing
                    down the glove. --psb
              \_ lanaguage eh?
2004/2/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29800 Activity:very high
2/11    Bush calls request for service record "gutter politics"
        http://csua.org/u/5yk
        Hey Republicans: sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
        All those years "investigating" Clinton are coming back to haunt you.
        \_ Oral sex is much worse than deserting your fellow soldiers.
           \_ Depends on who's giving the oral sex.
        \_ Attn: George Soros: If you offered a reward for credible witnesses
           to come forward about snorting coke with GWB, you could cripple
           this White House.
           \_ Ditto if there's someone who will admit they helped forge his
              National Guard records or help get an honorable discharge.
              \_ They're not forged.  They just don't show clear Dubya;
              \_ They're not forged.  They just don't clear Dubya;
                 McClellan waving the papers and sounding indignant isn't
                 persuasive.
                 \_ I like how McClellan says "he recalls serving" as if it's
                    some fuzzy thing he can't be expected to remember. "Like
                    uh, I was doing a lot of cocaine back then but I think I
                    probably went to Alabama, at least that's what I recall."
                    Too bad nobody else remembers him being there.
                 \_ From what I've heard there's a timesheet that is undated,
                    unsigned, and has a torn name that says 'W'.
        \_ Ask McCain about gutter politics.
        \_ So funny how this story finally has legs in the mainstream media,
           three years after everyone else already figured it out.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>