Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:October:22 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2004/10/22-23 [Reference/BayArea] UID:34283 Activity:high
10/22   Regarding whoever was saying that Nancy Pelosi is popular in SF
        because she "took 97% of the SF vote", she certainly didn't get that
        much when running for supervisor.  Maybe it has something to do with
        people being more likely to vote for someone from "their" town?
        Think "pork"... -John
        \_ That's what legislators are for - getting pork for your own town.
           \_ Welcome to descriptive versus prescriptive politics: you're
              describing what legislators do, not what they're for.  Drop
              the cynicism and concentrate that sharp wit on convincing them
              to do what they're supposed to do: represent the people.
        \_ Could I have somebody left of center explain to me what, in
           particular, I'm not supposed to like about Nancy Pelosi? I'm no
           bigger on her than any of the rest but she seems to be doing a
           better job than Daschle did. -- ulysses
           \_ I'm not familiar with what she's been up to since I moved out
              of SF, but when she was on the board of supervisors, she and a
              number of her colleagues formed what's best described as a
              "bleeding-heart cabal of the stupid."  -John
              \_ Ooo, boy! Tell me more John!
              \_ Or, as non-lunatics put it, a group of concerned officials.
                 \_ Ah, "lunatic".  Well, you're a shit-eating cretin.  Now,
                    anything of substance from your corner?  -John
                    \_ I didn't realize "bleeding-heart cabal of the stupid"
                       had substance. -!pp
                        \_ Look, I don't feel like looking up the exact
                           issues again; suffice to say that when I was in
                           HS in SF there was a fair amount of pretty idiotic
                           activity from the supervisors, including Pelosi.
                           I have no clue what the woman's been up to since,
                           nor do I care, but a lot of what came out of SF
                           city government around 1990 did not remotely
                           translate into "common sense".  I fail to see how
                           that translates into "lunatic".  -John
                           \_ I was around then.  It was lunatic.
2004/10/22-23 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:34284 Activity:nil
10/22   Is it possible to use includes in virtusertable (sendmail)?
        So that I can have, say, a virtusertable.d directory that I put various
        files I want to include in. (I don't mind if i have to have an
        entry per file as opposed to "include virtusertable.d/*".
2004/10/22 [Finance/Investment] UID:34285 Activity:high
10/22   So who was talking about shorting Google stock? Hahahaha.
        \_ Idiotic momentum buying and tulips.  There's no "there" there.
           This is not the "new economy".  Most people had re-learned the
           lesson of the "greater fool theory" by 2001.
           \_ nweaver, we're really sorry you decided to stay poor.  -tom
              \_ What's your net worth, tom?
           \_ Well, a stock's always going to be worth what people think it's
              worth, new economy or not.  -John
              \_ Yes, if enough people think that.  Until they decide to
                 take their profit.  First one out is the least of fools.
                 It's all downhill from there.
                 \_ After the first one gets out, the price drops exactly
                    because people think it's worth less than before.  So the
                    above statement still holds.
                    above statement still holds.  (Well, if you want to look
                    more closely, you'll have to distinguish between the
                    bid/ask/last-executed prices, where the "stock price" is
                    only the last-executed price.)
              \_ Last time I was thinking PMCS was worth $20 but other
                 people think it's worth like $9.  Crap!
2004/10/22-23 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:34286 Activity:low
10/21   The Emperor's battle computer is now fully operational. ---psb
        http://www.tgc.com/hpcwire/hpcwireWWW/04/1022/108601.html
        \_ The battle between vector and scalar supercomputers continues!
           \_ I'm still waiting to see a tensor computer.
2004/10/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:34287 Activity:high
10/22   what books/tapes best to learn mandarin?
        \_ Can you already read Chinese?  If you can read Chinese, you can
           learn by watching Channel 26 every weekday 8-10pm and then Channel
           32 10-11pm.
        \_ Pimsleur
        \_ Practical Audio/Visual Chinese >> Pimsleur
           Plus with the videos you can ogle h07 42n ch1x.
          \_ thanks guys, you guys rock..
2004/10/22 [Uncategorized] UID:34288 Activity:high
10/22   Cardiologists do it 'til your heart stops.
        \_ Optometrists... darn you, why did you get me started?
           \_ Poison Control Hotline operators do it 'til you puke.
              \_  computer scientists do it til their wrist gets tired.
                  \_ Donkey anesthesiologists do it 'til your ass falls asleep.
                     \_ Gynecologists do you 'til you dry up.
                        \_ Catholic priests do it 'til you hit puberty.
           \_ Optometrists do it till they're blind.
        \_ Creationists do it 'til the second law of thermodynamics says they
           can't.
2004/10/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34289 Activity:insanely high
10/22   NY Times editorial:  Iran's nuclear threat
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/22/opinion/22fri1.html (user/pw: bobbob)
        This is my prediction of what will happen:
        - Iran suspends enrichment, but says it will never renounce right
        - Iran accepts reactor-grade uranium from Russia
        - Iran operates reactor
        - Iran retains knowledge of weapons-grade enrichment
        - Israel, U.S. do nothing
        - IAEA maintains inspections
        "Nightmare" scenario:
        - As previous scenario, but ...
        - GW Bush re-elected
        - Joint U.S./Israel attack destroys reactor, 1/2 enrichment facilities
        - 2-3 years pass
        - Iran successfully detonates nuke, announces nuclear stockpile
        - Israel responds with first public nuclear test
        - U.S. stalled in UN by Security Council vetoes
        - U.S. rapidly deploys primarily air-based systems near Iran's borders
        - Iran blows up some nearby U.S. airbases with nukes before attack
        - New Republican administration elected
        - U.S. nukes Iran, destroying entire population
        - Draft receives Congressional approval, including special skills draft
        \_ Okay, and the bad part?
        \_ So in your worst case scenario the ultimate bad thing that is going
           to come from a nuclear war is the special skills draft?  Okey dokey!
           That was quite the stretch to get the geek draft in there.  Anyway,
           we've been over this before.  The military is different now.  The
           draft would be worse than useless.  It takes roughly 2 years to
           take an off the street slacker and turn them into a soldier.  WTF
           good is a draft when the conflict will be long over before the first
           draftee has a uniform on?  FUD.
           \_ Two years? Pshaw. It just takes 10 weeks of basic and 12 weeks
              of infantry school. -Vet
           \_ no you idiot. it's Us nukes iran, destroying entire population.
              get your head out of your ass. i hope you're not allowed to vote.
           \_ I don't think it's quite true that a _Special Skills_ draft
              would be useless.  It might take 2 years to train a guy
              you want on the ground in Iraq, but support roles probably
              aren't that hard.  A special skills draft would allow the
              military to stuff the support roles with draftees and put
              the volunteers in the field.
                \_ What about all the discipline, standards, and shit that
                   militaries want from their goons, support roles or
                   frontline grunts?  You'll never get someone unmotivated
                   to be a usable combat grunt;  rear-area support type will
                   simply be a tremendous waste of a lot of time.  Your best
                   bet is shooting them on arrival, pre-body-bagging them and
                   using them as human sandbags.  -John
                   \_ I think you're over-estimating the difficulty of
                      something.  I'm not sure if it's "hearding
                      sysadmins" or what.  Support roles aren't that
                      hard, and they don't require much discipline.  It's
                      just like coders and sysadmins at IBM, you don't
                      show 'em to the public, you hide 'em in some back
                      room, while the marketers (soldiers) do the front
                      line stuff.
                        \_ Yes, you know that and I know that, but we don't
                           run an army.  Now find me one of those which
                           follows this sort of sensible philosophy.
                           \_ Nah, you just need to transfer out the company
                              commander once the reservists don't show up
                              for their contaminated helicopter fuel run.
           \_ Drafted sysadmins, coders are cheap.  Anyways, I'm just showing
              how Dubya keeps his "no-draft" promise - it's for the President
              *after* Dubya.  Also, anyone can come up with a worst-case
              scenario.  I'm painting a *realistic* "nightmare" scenario. -op
              \_ You're showing nothing but your lack of understanding of the
                 modern American military.  The realistic nightmare scenario
                 is that Iran is allowed to continue developing nukes, gets
                 nukes and has a nuclear exchange with Israel.  The so-called
                 skills draft wouldn't make the list even if such a silly did
                 thing happen.  What skills do you think you have they'd want
                 anyway?  Surfing and restarting apache servers aren't
                 critical military needs.
                 \_ My scenario (the U.S. and Iran lobbing nukes at each other)
                    is not far off from Iran and Israel lobbing nukes at each
                    other.  This second scenario is far more obvious, which
                    is why I didn't mention it.  You missed my point on that
                    part - which is to argue how the U.S. realistically decides
                    to do some nuking itself.
                    Now, if the skills draft isn't that important, then why did
                    the military decide to plan for one, just like adding
                    a plan for a draft of Middle Eastern language experts?
                    My basic argument is that engineers are cheap when you
                    draft them.  I'm also participating in FCS design, so I
                    know what I'm talking about. -op
                    \_ The Pentagon has a plan for everything.  If they didn't
                       have a plan for everything collecting dust on a shelf
                       somewhere and getting updated every 10-15 years someone
                       would scream, "WHY DIDN'T YOU HAVE A PLAN FOR A SKILLS
                       DRAFT!  YOU MORONS!".  The US won't be nuking Iran
                       because Iran won't be nuking anything American.  They
                       would hit Israel first.  Once Israel is in ashes, they
                       "win", no matter what else happens afterwards.  By
                       "they" I mean Muslims across the ME who want every
                       Israeli dead and Israel destroyed utterly.  As far as
                       language experts go, were you upset they didn't have
                       enough Pashtun speakers when we went into southern
                       Afghanistan?  They're making sure that sort of thing
                       never happens again.  As an aside, my English instructor
                       at Cal was also a Baltic languages expert.  The CIA was
                       paying his entire way and then some so long as he
                       continued to keep up his language skills and promised
                       to be available as needed.  Was that a bad thing?  Are
                       you opposed to that?
                       \_ Baltic?!! You mean Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian?!
                          Are you sure you don't mean Balkin?  Why does the
                          CIA want Baltic language experts?  I've been to
                          Estonia, and it seems odd that the CIA would go
                          to so much effort to spy one a very small country
                          of extremely peaceful people who mostly speak
                          english anyway.
                          \_ It might seem odd to you, but they do.
2004/10/22-23 [Computer/Companies/Yahoo] UID:34290 Activity:nil
10/22   My yahoo mail account get flooded with about 2000 mails from a mailing
        list that ran amok while I was away.  Is there a way to remove all of
        them without selecting them one by one?
        \_ Yes.  Change your options to display the maximum number of messages.
           Click the search button.  Search for messages that have an
           identifying address.  Now click Check All and then delete. Repeat
           for 10 or 20 screens, depending.
2004/10/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34291 Activity:high
10/22   Watch Fahrenhite 9/11 for free.  http://csua.org/u/9lq
        \_ Huh?  Is this the right URL?
           \_ Fixed.  Sorry.
        \_ What for?  It was discredited.
           \_ If the right-wing tells you F9/11 is left-wing propaganda,
              then you're saving time by not seeing it.  Yay!
              \_ If it's left-wing propaganda then you're saving time by not
                 seeing it.  Yay!
                 \_ Right-wing Wins!  Yay!
                    \_ Gay!
        \_ Is there a refund for the first time viewers who had to pay?
           Where's your link to Celcius411?  How about some fair n balanced?
2004/10/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran] UID:34292 Activity:low
10/22   http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20041022/ts_latimes/israelmayhaveiraninitssights
        The Jews are at it again.
        \_ AH, we can always count on them.  Seriously, Iran has to really
           take into account that Isreal might pre-emptively nuke THEM...
           \_ Count on them?  To do what?  Destabilise the entire middle east?
              Israel has had nukes for decades.  Now they want to make sure
              Iran and we all know about Iraq from 1991 don't get military
              parity.  All they want is walls and nukes and Dubya-like
              pre-emptive strikes on people who are just trying to build a
              better life for themselves building electric power plans.  Why
              can't the Jews just get along with their neighbors?
              \_ Isreal is a dick, Iran is an asshole, and you are a pussy.
                 -trey and matt
                 \_ Are you implying an imminent of invasion of Iran by
                    Israel, or are you saying I shouldn't accept any drinks
                    from Israel?
                    \_ I'd go with both, just to be on the safe side.
              \_ Troll!
                 \_ You confuse trolling with dripping sarcasm.
              \_ w00t!
        \_ Dur, the Americans have to do it this time.  Thanks for the URL.
2004/10/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:34293 Activity:insanely high
10/22   Mann Coulter hit by pies while on speaking engagement:
        http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/3841599/detail.html
        \_ Yeah that's famous liberal tolerance of others. Esp. of
           Christians, and anyone else who disagrees with them.
        \_ Your pies are so BIG and TAX FREE!
        \_ They had the chance to throw pies at Ann Coulter and they only
           hit her in the SHOULDER?  What a waste.
        \_ That'll sure fix her!  I'm sure millions of people are now
           convinced of the wrongness of her message since two goofballs hit
           her with a pie.  YAY!
           \_ 90+ posts just - like - yours!
              http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1253783/posts
              \_ Yes?  And?  Do you believe that hitting (or missing) her with
                 a pie has convinced anyone of the wrongness of her message?
        \_ Then again, http://pornforprogress.com, watch Ann Cunter get off.
           \_ Ann Cunter!  Bahahahahhaaha!!!  Cool!
        \_ Boredcast Message from 'aaron': Fri Oct 22 09:47:37 2004
           if only the pies were infected with ebola

           Gotta love the sensitive liberals. -- ilyas
           \_ Yeah, Compassionate Conservatives wyould have gone for anthrax.
           \_ Yeah, Compassionate Conservatives would have gone for anthrax.
              \_ See, the difference is, conservatives on soda don't ACTUALLY
                 wish the pie was covered with some horrible disease.
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ For Ann Coulter, perhaps true.  For n, where n = any
                    liberal personality, then patently not true.
                    \_ Ok.  Can you cite an example of a soda conservative
                       hoping outloud for a horrible disease-ridden pie
                       hitting some prominent liberal personality (or
                       wanting a 50-to-1 gangbang, or any of the other
                       lovely things aaron wished for over the years)?
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ Um, I don't think aaron meant people to take the
                          ebola comment that seriously.
                          \_ Oh, I see.  It was one of aaron's little 'jokes.'
                             Great sense of humor.  Ebola sure is funny.
                             Anyways, the guy I was arguing with seemed to
                             think (a) aaron was serious, and (b) conservatives
                             on soda are guilty of the same sort of thing.
                             I am still hoping for a rebuttal from him.
                               -- ilyas
                             \_ I'm not that guy, but you're right,
                                conservatives will in large part only say these
                                types of things using relatively anonymous
                                accounts on http://freerepublic.com.
                                \_ The freepers are not conservatives.
                                   \_ What are they then?
                                \_ Ok, so just to be clear -- you are accusing
                                   soda conservatives of being secretly just
                                   as bad as aaron, it's just that they don't
                                   come out openly and say it.  Check.  Just
                                   so we are clear.  Any proof of this, or
                                   is this projection or assuming the other
                                   side is just as bad or what? -- ilyas
                                   \_ Whoa.  How'd we get from "an example"
                                      from your earlier post to "all soda
                                      conservatives"?  Nice context shift
                                      there, buddy.
                                   \_ No, I said "conservatives" not "soda
                                      conservatives".  Duh.  And by this
                                      I mean the subset of conservatives who
                                      post that type of thing on freerepublic.
                                      What part of "but you're right" did you
                                      not understand?
                                      \_ Freepers are not conservatives.
                                         \_ What are they then?
                             \_ Soda has an interactive forum where you could
                                discuss aaron's wall comments with him. It is
                                called wall.
                                \_ I have no interest of discussing anything
                                   with aaron, he is past my event horizon of
                                   common ground. -- ilyas
                                   \_ But you feel the need to read the wall
                                      log, and post out of context excerpts
                                      from it on motd? Ok.
                                      \_ Sure.  I don't want to _talk_ to
                                         aaron.  I want to hold him up as an
                                         example of something not to do.
                                         The only defense offered so far is
                                         'but the freepers are just as bad!'
                                         Kind of sad.  I would be surprised
                                         anyone on soda from the
                                         conservative side is a freeper.
                                         Certainly no conservative I personally
                                         know.  Look at yourselves, liberals,
                                         do you really want to be like this?
                                           -- ilyas
                                         \_ No, I'd far rather be condescended
                                            to by a sanctimonious conservative.
                                            Thanks ilyas, I feel so much more
                                            enlightened now.
                                            \_ I am not a conservative.  If
                                               pointing out that wishing
                                               harm on other human beings is
                                               evil, and pleading them to stop
                                               is being sanctimonious,
                                               sign me up.  -- ilyas
                                \_ ilyas just wants to talk to that guy who
                                   thinks soda conservatives openly wish deadly
                                   diseases on liberal figures
                             \_ I never thought aaron was serious, and I'm
                                sure conservatives on this forum have joked
                                about worse than this.  Drop the higher moral
                                ground bit, Ilya, it doesn't suit you. -pp
                                \_ You're sure?  Based on what?  Projection?
                                \_ Aaron's jokes about conservatives have
                                   consistently violent overtones.  I am not
                                   dropping any sort of morality card, I am
                                   just staring in wonderment and worry.  Are
                                   violent jokes about ethnic groups ok?  If
                                   anything, political groups are more
                                   important than ethnic.  -- ilyas
                                   \_ Ilya, if you have a beef with Aaron,
                                      bring it up with Aaron.  When you paint
                                      all liberals with the same brush, be
                                      careful because the brush paints both
                                      ways. -pp
                                   \_ ^Aaron's jokes about conservatives^ \
                                      freeper's jokes about liberals
                                      \_ Freepers != soda users.
                                         Freepers != conservatives.
                                         Thank you.
                                         \_ There is a soda user who used
                                            to consistently post freeper links.
                                      \_ The pp specified "on this forum".
                                         Please post specific examples.
                                         \_ Yeah, but I'm just saying aaron's
                                            comment did not pop up in a vacuum.
                                            freeper folks have been running
                                            wild (on their forums) for years
                                            now.
                                            \_ Freepers != soda users.  You
                                               even say "on their forums" which
                                               is clearly different from "our"
                                               forum here.
                                               \_ Soda users post on Freep.
                                            \_ I would hope that we would
                                               expect better from aaron than
                                               from the average freeper.
                                               \_ I think you'd be wrong
                                                  there.
                                            \_ So the motd is just is just
                                               free republic for liberals?
                                               \_ Well, maybe for one liberal.
                                \_ "I'm sure conservatives on this forum have
                                   joked about worse than this."  Example
                                   please.
                                   \_ They're scouring the motd archives right
                                      now.  Expect to see something from about
                                      8 years ago regarding Clinton and some
                                      STD and Monica.  Or maybe not.
           \_ I don't see much reason to be "sensitive" in one's comments
              towards Coulter. It's Ann Coulter, come on. Have you seen that
              bitch in action? It's really nothing to do with her "politics".
              \_ So she is stupid, or evil, or a propagandabot.  So let's
                 wish she gets a horrible disease and dies?  You need to take
                 a deep breath and look at yourself.  Attention
                 Mr. "Don't paint liberals with the same brush" above, this
                 is probably not aaron talking.  The scary thing is that
                 liberals on soda don't seem to have a problem at all.
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ Your generalization of 'all soda liberals' is based on
                    an absurdly small sample size, and seems to be heavily
                    biased by your clear political bent and your obvious
                    siege mentality (or at least it seems that way in your
                    stubborn insistence to make this generalization).  Try
                    to get over yourself a little bit and realize that the
                    majority of adults here don't feel the need to prove
                    themselves to you while still categorically NOT sharing
                    aaron's sentiments.
                    \_ When did I say 'all'?  You have it in quotes but what
                       are you quoting exactly?  -- ilyas
                    \_ Hey, aaron is your fringe.  He may not represent you,
                       but it's up to you to say it, and deal with the
                       negatives people like aaron present for the liberal
                       movement.  -- ilyas
                       \_ I don't think aaron's anger is attached to a
                          political attribute. It's just a high level of anger.
                          In other words I bet there are many with his general
                          political view but just too apathetic to actually
                          stay worked up about it.
                 \_ Well, I'm basically a moderate. I'm a bit south-
                    west on the left-right-authority-liberty compass. I think
                    you're overanalyzing and too arrogant to allow for the
                    possibility that your interpretation of this flippant
                    excerpt from wall might be different than that of the
                    person who typed it. I could also compare and contrast
                    aaron with motd freeper types but I'm getting bored.
                    \_ Let's imagine a slightly different situation, where a
                       prominent african american activist got pied, and
                       someone wished outloud that the pie had ebola in it.
                       Do you honestly
                       think that 'he was being flippant' is any sort of
                       defense?  I don't think african americans as a group
                       should be treated any differently in this kind of
                       situation from 'conservatives,' 'jews,' 'women,'
                       'homosexuals' or any other meaningful group.  They
                       are all people.  Wishing them harm, or wishing to
                       beat them up (as aaron did at another time) is not
                       flippant, it's evil and hateful.  This has nothing
                       to do with a siege mentality, the argument stays
                       the same even if conservatives were a 90% majority
                       in the US.  If you want to comopare aaron with the
                       in the US.  If you want to compare aaron with the
                       motd freeper types, feel free.  I have yet to find
                       a single example of a similar kind of thing done
                       by soda conservatives, even anonymous ones. -- ilyas
                       \_ Well, one thing we seem to disagree on is whether
                          Coulter truly represents a meaningful group and
                          whether animosity towards her is based on her
                          membership in this group or rather her personal
                          behavior and attributes. I, personally, don't
                          have any particular dislike for most "conservatives".
                          If I thought some black activist was a contemptible
                          ass I wouldn't feel guilty for thinking so just
                          because ilyas would brand me a racist.
                          \_ But would you feel guilty wishing he would die
                             from the ebola virus?  -- ilyas
              \_ Bitch?  So you have a problem with strong women?  Do you
                 call Hillary a bitch, too?  It has everything to do with
                 1) her politics, 2) your hatred of strong women who could
                 easily put you in your place.
                 \_ I call her a bitch because someone i know went to law
                    school with her and said she was a bitch there. -!pp
                 \_ I take it you haven't seen her in a live setting. She's
                    a talking-points bot with a side order of ad hominem.
                    I said what I mean and mean what I said so fuck off.
        \_ So who's the guy who has followed up most of the subthreads with
           garbage?  motd users want to know!
2004/10/22-23 [Academia/UCLA] UID:34294 Activity:high
10/22   Most expensive colleges in the US:
        http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/21/pf/college/expensive_colleges/index.htm
        How about Europe? How much are boarding schools in Switzerland?
        \_ Why do you want to know?  You want your son to run for President?
        \_ IMD in Lausanne takes the cake for MBAs.  Lycaeum Alpinum in Zuoz
           is an expensive boarding high school for little rich snots; mots
           other private schools here are for "difficult" students or those
           with learning disabilities.  Across Europe, the great universities
           tend to be public--I can only think of Oxford/Cambridge as
           pricey private Universities (and they've apparently lapsed pretty
           badly in terms of quality.)  -John
           \_ http://Economist.com says Oxford and Cambridge are still in the top
              20 worldwide... of course so is UCLA (which kind of scares me,
              since the world can't be that bad).  University rankings in
              general are sort of an iffy thing.  -- ilyas
                \_ why do you look down on UCLA, the land of the happy
                   sexy and healthy women.
                   \_ Email me if you want a serious answer. -- ilyas
                   \_ They admitted ilyas and kchang to their grad program.
                      \_ w00t!
           \_ Are there any great universities in Britain that are public?
              \_ Are U of Edinburgh or LSE public?
2004/10/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34295 Activity:high
10/22   Diversity, tolerance, and all that good liberal vibe in LA.
        http://www.slate.com/id/2108561
        \_ This pretty much matches my expectations.
        \_ Actually, this matches the soda experience pretty well also.
        \_ I thought the article was rather funny and well-written, but as
           far as the social phenomenon it's not really fair.  Ignoring the
           strong geography aspect (people in California are either democratic,
           apathetic, or too rich to care; things might be different in Texas)
           I think the scorn for Bush/Cheney is appropriate-- these men have
           proven themselves to be whatever people see them as, while Kerry
           remains a wildcard.  You can't hate a man for thinking he can do
           better, but you can hate a man for needlessly taking your country
           to war.  See the difference?
           \_ Right.  Thanks for the confirmation.
              \_ Right.  Thanks for the confirmation.
              \_ Presuming you're op: being angry with people for proven
                 reasons is not an indication that liberals are hypocrites,
                 or whatever it is you're trying to imply.
                 \_ Just a bit sensitive, aren't you?
                    \_ Only my nipples.  Or were you not being sarcastic?
           \_ So a guy wore a Bush/Cheney t-shirt in a liberal area, and
              the worst thing that happened was a couple of people muttered
              "asshole" under their breath? "Help Help I'm being oppressed!"
              \_ Compare that to people attacked and beaten for being
                 Kerry supporters in Texas.
                 \_ Link please?
                  \_ If this is true, fucking Nazi bastards.  They should
                     go live under Hitler, Hussein, or some such.
                     \_ And if it isn't?  And if there are Republicans
                        out there getting attacked and beaten is that ok?
                 \_ I've been looking, but I can't find anything from the
                    news on this.  All I found was a blog report where
                    some Bush supporters were assulted at a Kerry rally in
                    Milwaukee.  Which I take with a grain of salt...
                    http://disjointed.org/archives/001032.html
                    \_ Kerry supporters are all peaceful victims.  Bush
                       supporters are all evil and we can't trust them not
                       to lie about this.  Not even that woman at the (R)
                       campaign office that got her wrist broken by some
                       piece of shit union thugs.
                       \_ Link?
                          \_
       http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=70201
                           What happened to that guy who was claiming a
                           month or so ago that only the American right
                           wing has a history of violence, and the left
                           wing is never violent?
                           \_ This always amuses me; the notion that because
                              people ascribe to one philosophy or another that
                              it somehow magically makes all its devotees
                              special and somehow superhuman.  They always
                              seem to ignore that these are aspects of basic
                              human nature, and in any large enough group,
                              there will ALWAYS be vile, violent and unethical
                              people...and that this doesn't necessarily
                              reflect anything on the philosophy or group
                              (obExceptBlatantlyEvilGroupsLikeNazisOrSlavers).
2004/10/22 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:34296 Activity:nil 72%like:34300
10/22   Microsoft Service Pack 2:  Good or bad?  In particular, do I need
        to have it to run iTunes?
        \_ XP SP2, I assume you mean...
        \_ No problem for me. I've installed it on a few systems.
2004/10/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:34297 Activity:high
10/22   Trying to decide how to vote on prop 66 (the 3 strikes one).
        Any thoughts?
        "A decade after it was enacted, California's three-strikes
         sentencing law has had little impact on violent crime while
         costing taxpayers $8 billion to imprison tens of thousands of
         felons, most of them for nonviolent offenses, according to a
         study released today."
         http://www.justicepolicy.org/article.php?id=396 - danh
        \_ VOTE NO. It only strengthen a provision of the child abuse
           statute that no DA has ever used. While weakening others from
           felonies to misdamenaors (i.e. must prove INTENT for bodily
           harm in non-fatal DUI accidents if 66 passes)
        \_ I am voting NO.  Judges and DAs already have discretion on
           when/where to apply the 3rd strike.  The case of people
           stealing some pizza and getting 25 to life is a myth.
           \_ You sure about this?  The term mandatory minimums and
              life in prison for 3 crimes seems to contradict your
              bit about juridical discretion.  California's prison system
              is a shambles, and we imprison too high a percentage of the
              population; I can say that much.  The actual problems
              of three strikes, and the merits of prop 66 I don't know
              enough about.  URLs would be helpful.
              \_ "A strict reading of the language of the statute and the
                 initiative back in 1994 led to the interpretation that there
                 was no discretion for the prosecutor to dismiss qualifying
                 prior convictions... This narrow interpretation proved to be
                 incorrect in light of the California courts' decisions in
                 People v. Superior Court (Romero) and People v. Kilborn,
                 among others. Romero highlighted the court's ability to
                 strike prior strikes in the furtherance of justice and Kilborn
                 highlighted the prosecution's ability to request the court to
                 strike prior strikes in the furtherance of justice. Thus, in
                 an effort to accomplish justice, the prosecutor has the
                 discretion to request the court to dismiss prior convictions
                 in order to prevent a defendant from being punished unjustly.
                 And even if the prosecutor does not choose to exercise this
                 discretion, the trial court, which has the obligation to
                 impose a just and fair sentence, may dismiss prior strike
                 convictions."  [Sorry for the long quote.]
                 http://www.cdaa.org/WhitePapers/ThreeStrikes.pdf
                 \_ So far, that says the trial court and prosecutor have
                    leeway to drop prior "strikes". I do not have time to
                    read your link. Does it include a part where _judges_
                    have the ability to decide sentencing apart from the
                    basic terms given in 3 strikes?
                    \_ Once a prior strike has been dropped at either the
                       request of the prosecutor or the discretion of
                       the judge, then the newest conviction can be
                       sentenced normally based on whatver other guidelines
                       (from other sources) that may apply.
           \_ Hmmm.. My understanding was that the "pizza theft" incendent
           \_ Hmmm.. My understanding was that the "pizza theft" incindent
              actually occured, but what they fail to meantion was that it
              wasn't just a petty theft, it was a strongarm robbery for a
              slice of pizza.  Which is exactly the type of person I want
              in jail.
              \_ Exactly. Also, a lot of these 'drug convictions' are just
                 convenient ways to lock up people involved in a lot more
                 than smoking out at their mom's house. Face it, anyone
                 can make a mistake. Or two. The third time then I want
                 a mandatory sentencing. Crime is way down so it seems to
                 work. Do you want all of those criminals (some "harmless"
                 and some not-so) released?!
                 \_ The real solution to the incarceration problem is not
                    to gut the three strikes law, but to gut the war on
                    drugs.  Of course, no one will ever put this on a ballot
                    measure.
                    \_ We already did, remember "Medicinal Marijuana?"
                    \_ I agree very much!
2004/10/22-24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:34298 Activity:low
10/22   Recommendation for real-time internet traffic and outage reports?
        \_ ping.  :-)
        \_ http://traffic.com You have to register, though.
2004/10/22-24 [Consumer/Audio] UID:34299 Activity:moderate
10/22   MPEG-4 AAC vs. MP3.  Pros?  Cons?
        \_ It really depends on what MP3 encoder you're comparing it to, as
           the quality/bitrate can vary a lot.  LAME with the right settings
           produces quality comparable to AAC at the same bitrate, but others
           (Xing, Fraunhoffer) will not sound nearly as good.  MP3 wins hands
           down for compatability though.
        \_ AAC is supposed to be higher quality/bitrate.  MP3 has more player
           support.  Since Apple has such a huge share of the market, we
           might be seeing more AAC support in the future.
        \_ OGG VORBIS!
        \_ Can one notice the difference in audio quality between MP3 at
           160 kHz vs. a regular CD if using speakers that aren't state
           of the art?
           \_ Maybe.  If you play the right kind of music and/or have
              been trained to listen for artifacts, then you're more
              likely to hear them.  What speakers?
           \_ LAME's --preset-standard setting does VBR, I think it averages
              above 192kbps but goes higher. This is supposed to be
              transparent even to trained listeners although there are always
              some "problem samples" people can find. 160 CBR is not considered
              to be transparent but even 128CBR is "good enough" for a lot of
              non audiophiles who aren't doing back-to-back tests.
           \_ Trained audiophiles with good hearing can easily distinguish
              between CD and higher-bitrate SACD and DVD-A.  The quality diff
              between lossy recordings and CD is much greater than CD and
              SACD/DVD-A is much.  Of course, if you aren't using a reference
              SACD/DVD-A.  Of course, if you aren't using a reference
              system for listening it will be much harder to tell the
              difference between any of these.  Go to Home Entertainment 2004
              to listen to some truly reference systems! (http://www.he2004.com
              \_ I was impressed with mp3 sound until the day I realized
                 my speakers had been slowly decaying (after ~15 years).
                 so I replaced my rotten drivers and was blessed with
                 enough fidelity to hear big differences.  but now I hear
                 much more difference between audio paths (analog or toslink)
                 from the same mp3s than between mp3 and CD over toslink...
           \_ I can easily hear problems in 160kbit files on most halfway
              decent audio systems.  All 160kbit files are not alike, however.
              Aside from CBR vs. VBR, some encoders (such as LAME) can do a
              much better job making a nice file with limited bandwidth.
              A well-encoded 160 or 192 kbit MP3 will have barely-detectable
              distortion on most systems, but a poorly encoded 160 can sound
              quite bad.
2004/10/22-24 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:34300 Activity:kinda low 72%like:34296
10/22   XP Service Pack 2:  Good or bad?
        \_ No problem for me. I've installed it on a few systems.
        \_ Mostly good, and no.  It changes your TCP/IP stack such that if
           are 10 half-open TCP connections, you can't open any more until
           time out.  This greatly slows the spread of worms but screws you
           if you're running a mail server or P2P.  The only fix is a hex-edit
           of tcpip.sys
        \_ I had some issues with regards to stability that were traced
           to SP2's security center.  Had to play around a bit to keep
           the machine from locking up every hour or so.  Others I've
           talked to had problems with certain software, particularly
           games, so they just went back to SP1.
        \_ Mucked up my brother's Outlook Express such that he can't open
           messages with attachments, but that's what he gets for using OE.
           He switched to Thunderbird, and all is well.
           \_ It takes five seconds to turn this off from the preferences
              menu. Give me a break, you don't even know how to turn off
              a preference in OE?
        \_ My sister-in-law called my up and has been on the phone with
           Microsoft because the XP SP2 failed halfway through and messed up
           the system.  It seems to be hit-and-miss in terms of the chances
           for disaster.
2004/10/22-24 [Recreation/Humor] UID:34301 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
10/22   EE pr0n:
        http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/circuits-discover-each-other-024002.php
2004/10/22-23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:34302 Activity:nil
10/22   The Jews are at it again: http://tinyurl.com/5hskc
        \_ AH, we can always count on them.  Seriously, Iran has to really
           take into account that Isreal might pre-emptively nuke THEM...
           \_ Count on them?  To do what?  Destabilise the entire middle east?
              Israel has had nukes for decades.  Now they want to make sure
              Iran and we all know about Iraq from 1991 don't get military
              parity.  All they want is walls and nukes and Dubya-like
              pre-emptive strikes on people who are just trying to build a
              better life for themselves building electric power plans.  Why
              can't the Jews just get along with their neighbors?
              \_ Isreal is a dick, Iran is an asshole, and you are a pussy.
                 -trey and matt
                 \_ Are you implying an imminent of invasion of Iran by
                    Israel, or are you saying I shouldn't accept any drinks
                    from Israel?
                    \_ I'd go with both, just to be on the safe side.
              \_ Troll!
                 \_ You confuse trolling with dripping sarcasm.
              \_ w00t!
        \_ Dur, the Americans have to do it this time.  Thanks for the URL.
2004/10/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34303 Activity:moderate
10/22   Sinclair Bends Over For Kerry
        i.e. boycott threat worked:
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1254113/posts
        \_ Haha, how do you like it boys? c.f. "The Reagans."
           \_ The Reagans was full of made up crap chock full of scenes the
              writers couldn't possibly have witnesses to such as Ron and
              Nancy discussing AIDS in America tucked in at night.  Sinclair
              has video of people who were in Vietnam telling their own
              stories.  If you can't see the difference between the two there's
              no point in discussing it with you.  As far as how do I like it?
              I don't care either way.  I downloaded the video out of curiosity
              but haven't viewed it.
              \_ So... you didn't inhale?
            \_ Yea... real funny.  Depriving war heroes, who an average lost
               4 years of their lives as POWs defending you, from telling
               their story.  What a victory.
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:October:22 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>