Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:April:09 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/4/9 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:13106 Activity:insanely high
4/9     "It is not just considered bad form to discuss ethnicity in the new
         California. It can land one in jail. Added to the penal code is the
         crime of "divisionism," a nebulous offense that includes speaking too
         provocatively about ethnicity."
         yes, I replaced the word "Rwanda" with "California."  The amazing
         thing is how little of a stretch it is.
         \_ you're an idiot.
            \_ Yeah, in California you'll just get yelled at, or maybe
               beat up.  Well, unless someone (non-white) gets offended
               and manages to portray what you said as "Hate Speech."
               THAT could land you in jail.
                \_ As the above said, you're an idiot. Returneth thee to hate
                   radio from whence thee came.
                   \_ Darn you're right.  You can't be jailed for "Hate
                      Speech" in CA unless the "victim" feels
                       A Google on Canadian Hate Speech Laws is fun though.
                       \_ yeah, burning a cross on someone's lawn is free
                          speech.  people who feel threatened by that should
                          lighten up.  What is America coming to?
                          \_ Usually I think of speech as refering to the
                             practice of expelling air from the lungs
                             though the mouth the produce a series of
                             sounds known as language, which is then
                             recieved by another persons ear.  In fact,
                             transmission by writing or electronic media
                             could also  be conisdered speech.  But I
                             would think burning a cross on someone's lawn
                             would constitute other areas of the law, such
                             as "tresspassing" and "fire ordinances."  As
                             far as spoken threats, there are other law
                             for that.  Anyway, I'm sure that Straw Man
                             went over great a People's Park, but outside
                             in reality it sounds pretty silly.
                             \_ I'm not sure about what the People's Park
                                reference is about but, anyway, Justice
                                Scalia, for one, argued strongly that cross
                                burning is free speech.
                      \_ "Threatened" is way too broad.  There is a similar
                          law about weapons (not necessarily guns).  In
                          theory, you can carry certain weapons as long as
                          they are visible.  In practice, if someone feels
                          "threatened" by this, off to jail you go.  I can't
                          help but remember Monty Burns: "Thank God we
                          live in a country so hysterical about crime..."
                            -- ilyas
                       \_ Don't forget, if the person feeling "threatened"
                          happened to be sleeping with a member of the
                          politburo, it can even get the motd shut down.
2004/4/9 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:13107 Activity:nil
4/8     In SQL, say I have two tables, one references to another. What is the
        query that will list all the entries in the first table that doesn't
        occur in the second table? I'd like to do "SELECT FROM
        a,b WHERE!". However, this doesn't quite work. Thanks.
        \_ The following works in PostgreSQL; I don't know if the IS NULL
           syntax is part of SQL or an extension. Note that, in Postgres,
           replacing 'IS NULL' with '= NULL' doesn't work.
           There may well be a more efficient way of doing this, but this
           one works. -gm
        \_ SELECT id FROM first_table a WHERE NOT EXISTS
           (SELECT * FROM second_table b WHERE =
2004/4/9 [Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:13108 Activity:moderate
4/8     So I'm using Subversion for personal work.  I set up a debian server
        and got apache2 running and svn-dav working so I can use http URL's for
        the repository.  I've got basic authentication working, but I'd like to
        try https authentication.  But I'm an apache newbie.  Anyone have
        pointers to either doing this specific task or a tutorial on apache2
        SSL configuration (including certificates, etc.)?
        \_ and it all went quiet in the city
           and the wind blew down the road
           someone cried out SUBVERT!
           and the people all went cold
           meanwhile back in subvert city
           someone's writing on the wall
           fuck the government spraypaint hero
           it's subvert's subvert rule!!
        \_ google is your friend.  But you can check out
  for more info
2004/4/9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13109 Activity:nil
4/8     I'm driving up to Seattle/Vancouver on Sunday just for kicks. Any
        suggestions of places to stop on the way? So far I've been recommended
        the Tulip Festival in Skagit (
        \_ I'm leaving Sunday and have to be in Seattle on Tuesday, so like
           the person below says... I am sort of "blasting" through. However,
           I would like to make a 3-4 detour either through a national forest,
           quaint town, or something like that. The suggestions below are all
           great... much appreciated.
        \_ errr ...  that's a very long drive with literally hundreds
           of places on the way worth visiting.
           \_ yes, that's teh problem, so much to do, so little time.
       is a pretty good site.
           \- helo if you are interested in geology, there are some
              interesting locations in eastern oregon to drive through
              rather than blasting up 5. but yeah, you have to put
              more on the table for meaningful feedback.
        \_ If you're going through Portland, I recommend stopping at
           Powell's bookstore.  I've been told it's the biggest bookstore.
                \_ Powell's rocks.  Also in Portland is the nickel arcade
                   (very cheap arcade games) and Dot's, a dive-y bar with
                   a sock monkey tree.  I recommend the Lime Rickey.  -brain
                   \_ An arcade? give me a break...
        \_ Redwood national forest on the border btw Oregon and CA, and
           some volcanic lake the name of which I forgot somewhat more inland.
           These things stand out on any map so I guess maybe you are not
           into nature things if you bothered to ask.
           \_ Crater Lake.  It's cool.  I think it's a National Park.
              \_ I was thinking about going here. What's it like? Big holes
                   in the ground, volcanic ash?
                 \_ It's a beautiful deep blue lake that is very deep.  It's
                    surrounded by a cliff rim all the way around that drops
                    several hundred feet to the lake surface.  There's a
                    funny little island in the middle you can take a boat out
                    to.  You can also hike up to some of the little peaks
                    around the rim.
        \_ Portland's rose garden is nice, though probably not so much so this
           time of year.
        \_ The Bridgeport Brewery in Portland:
           Free tours at 2 and 5 daily.
        \_ don't forget to pick up danh on your way back
        \_ Lake Shastina. Say hi to Ponch while you're there.
2004/4/9-10 [Recreation/Dating] UID:13110 Activity:nil
4/8     Does anybody have audio of Ice T on Law & Order SVU saying,
        "You on the down-low, dude!".  It was on Monday or Tuesday night.
        \_ on NBC?  USA will re-air it a week or two later.  let me know if
           you want me to get it for you then. --jameslin
        \_ That little bit with Ice-T explaining down-lows was the most fun
           SVU's been since I've started watching it. "I just know stuff.".
           -- forced to watch dumb TV w/ my wife.
           \_ What does she do for you?  Anal?  Threesomes?  Fulfilling your
              "big black man fucked my wife while i was forced to watch"
              fantasy? Can I fuck your wife?  I don't care if you watch or not.
              \_ Whoah. Did I piss in your Cheerios or something? If I did, I'm
                 sorry about it.
              \_ What every good wife does, puts up with your shit without
                 killing you.
                 \_ You got the whole marriage thing all confused.  I was
                    joking before but if your reply is serious you need some
                    serious marriage counseling to explain that marriage is
                    a two-way street and it isn't a big 'favor' to you that
                    she has deigned to marry you and stay.  I'm the last person
                    to use pansy ass phrases like "self esteem issue" but you
                    qualify.  -married on two-way street
                    \_ you're full of shit, and probably love to hear yourself
                       talk.  putting up with someones shit can be a 2-way
                       street.  i put up with shit from my wife, and she puts
                       up with shit from me.   we both get more out
                       of being together than we loose by putting up with the
                                                 \_ nweaver is married?
                       shit, so it's a net gain both ways. of course, the
                       above issue is not relevant for me, since my wife and
                       i both hate television.
                       \_ Uhm, yeah, I'm so glad for you that your marriage is
                          full of such joy that the best you can say is the
                          benefits outweigh the crap.  And you think *I'm* full
                          of shit?  I'm happily married.  No one in my house
                          puts up with crap from anyone.  --happily married on
                                2-way street with no crap unlike you, you
                                poor dumb bastard
                          \_ So you both have the same personality? You have
                             coupled bliss of no disagreements and no different
                             opinions? Nothing you do bugs your wife or vice
                             versa? Wow.
                    \_ I'm sorry.  I've noticed that the bi and large comment
                       usually also apply to polyamourous women.
                       \_ uh?  a bit off topic this afternoon, eh?
                          \_ how else would you interpret a two-way marriage?
                             \_ He said two-way street, not two-way marraige.
                                Normal people would just interpret that as
                                meaning that sometimes you give some and
                                sometimes you get some. Weird, sicko
                                degenerates on the other hand...
                 \_ if she hasn't killed you yet, it's only because your
                    future earning potential >> f(life insurance coverage,
                    your annoyance value, likelihood of landing someone
                    better).  once you stop being an earner, you're gone.
                 \_ BDG, where are you???
                    \_ Yes, this is definitely the right time for BDG to come
                       on board and help this poor dummy out before her lawyer
                       gets to him.
                       \- I saw the best  minds of my generation destroyed by
                          marriage,   starving  hysterical   naked,  dragging
                          themselves through  the sloda motd  at dawn looking
                          for an angry  fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for
                          the  ancient  heavenly  connection  to  the  starry
                          dynamo in  the machinery of night,  who poverty and
                          tatters and hollow-eyed and  high sat up smoking in
                          the  supernatural   darkness  of  cold-water  flats
                          floating  across the  tops of  cities contemplating
                          internet  p0rn, who  bared their  brains  to Heaven
                          under the  El and saw  Mohammedan angels staggering
                          on tenement  roofs illuminated, who  passed through
                          universities  with radiant cool  eyes hallucinating
                          freepers and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars
                          of war,  who were  expelled from the  academies for
                          crazy &  publishing obscene odes on  the windows of
                          the  skull,  who   cowered  in  unshaven  rooms  in
                          underwear, burning their  money in wastebaskets and
                          listening to  the Terror through the  wall, who got
                          busted  in  their  pubic beards  returning  through
                          Laredo with  a belt of marijuana for  New York, who
                          ate  fire in  paint hotels  or drank  turpentine in
                          Paradise Alley, death,  or purgatoried their torsos
                          night  after night  with Skyler,  with  drugs, with
                          waking  nightmares, alcohol  and  cock and  endless
                          balls,  incomparable  blind.
                                                --Allan  Ginsberg | psb@sloda
2004/4/9 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:13111 Activity:nil
4/9     Radar clocks Mini Cooper at mach 3:
        \_ Equiped with Mini-Twin Rocket Pack(c) and Dual Enhanced Thruster
           System(c) while pointed straight downwards after being dropped from
           orbit by ESA launch vehicle last June.
        \_ I wonder how much an outfit like Mini might pay for that sort of
                                            \_ BMW
2004/4/9 [Uncategorized] UID:13112 Activity:nil
4/9     I'm detecting dangerous levels of non-entertainment. Why isn't
        the motd police here to cleanse this excrement?
        \_ Be more funny!
2004/4/9 [Health/Men] UID:13113 Activity:nil
4/9     There are 600,426,974,379,824,381,952 ways to spell Viagra
        \_ The 10,000 names of God?
2004/4/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:13114 Activity:nil
4/9     Iran is next:
        \_ Will we be welcomed as liberators?
            \_ For some definition of "liberators," and some arbitrarily
               large epsilon around that definition.
2004/4/9-10 [Computer/HW/IO, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:13115 Activity:nil
4/9     One side of my shoulder hurts very often, even when I am not doing
        anything but (especially) sitting.  Don't know if this is repetitive
        stress syndrome or anthritis.  Not asking for medical opinion on motd
        but just wondering if anyone else has had that too.
        \_ Totally serious: left shoulder?  I had the same thing, where I would
           slouch very slightly on the left armrest, which could not be
           adjusted low enough.  2 weeks ago I unscrewed the thing and made it
           into an office mobile, and my shoulder's starting to feel better.
           I keep the right one to use the mouse with.
           \_ My office chair has no arm rests, and I like it that way.
           \_ reformatted
           \_ Right shoulder, but I use my left for mouse, even though I am
              right handed.  -- op
           \_ Do you carry a backpack on one shoulder? Or carry anything
              semi-heavy unbalanced on a regular basis?
        \_ My g/f, who is 33, had the same problem. She went to the doc
           and he said it was degenerative arthritis. He put her on an
           exercise regimen that mostly made it go away.
        \_ well are you doing a certain kind of movement (e.g. sports)?
           \_ this is the motd.
        \_ i had the same thing on my right shoulder. but it was only when
           using my home computer after buying a new Mac (only relevant bc
           I stopped using an MS keyboard). I bought a new chair and the prob
           mostly went away.
2004/4/9-11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:13116 Activity:nil
4/9     I am switching to a maildir format with my mail server so I can
        implement virtual domains with courier imap.  What should I
        recommend to users who are used to using pine.  I don't want to
        have to patch pine for maildir.  We,^H^H^H Some of these users have
        been using pine since their teens and are now well into their 30s
        and the transition many not be easy so i want to avoid telling them
        "learn mh".  Anything out there pine-like that supports maildir that
        I can install for us^H^H them to use?
        \_hmm, if they connect with pine to I needn't worry
          about plain-text password passing right?
          \_ pine + imap kinda sucks. I moved our mail system over to qmail+
             maildir, but forward my mail over to another machine so that
             i can still use good ol' pine. - ex-mh user
             \_ ex-mh user?  there are no ex-mh users.  and they sure as hell
                wouldn't go to pine.  you mean you tried mh one day and gave
                up because you couldn't read a man page so you switched to
                the most broken mailer available.
             \_ Belive pine supports SSL/TLS too. Though, my personal
                suggestion would be to get rid of pine since it's author
                refuses to support this useful mail box format. He seems
                to have a personal vendetta against maildir and djb.
                \_ just implement and fork it.  that's what OS is about!  the
                   original author owes you nothing.  scratch that itch!
        \_ make virtual domains use maildir, keep local mail in mbox.
           This is the way I have it setup. shell users use pine,
           remote folks use maildir/courier/imap/ssl
            \_ ok this sounds like a good idea, but how do i tell procmail(?)
               to deliver the mail differently to virtual domains?  Also,
               this means, i presume, that the shell users can't use imap
               even if they want to (which is ok, since I don't let them now
               anyway as my imap/pop is unencrypted).
               \_ You can't tell procmail to deliver mail differently to
                  virtual domains because procmail has no idea what a domain
                  is.  It is a *local* delivery agent.  There are hackish ways
                  to accomplish this, but you don't want to go there. -dans
        \_ A few useful things you should know:
           * cyrus >> courier >> uw imap
             I've set up and used all three.  Cyrus is a royal fucking pain
             in the ass to set up, but, once working, is a thing of beauty.
             Cyrus cannot be used with procmail (it's architectural, you can
             read the docs if you care).  Courier is solid, but it runs as
             root and that always bugged me.  Plus, it's performance on
             ludicrously sized mail folders (> 1.5G) was unacceptable (yes, I
             care, and if you're 30 and using pine, so do you).  UW IMAP is,
             like most ``production'' software that comes out of UW a steaming
             pile of shit which lacks features and includes bugs they refuse
             to fix for `political reasons.'
           * Mutt can be made to act like pine, just change the keybindings.
             It has better IMAP support to (which is pretty absurd when you
             realize that UW IMAP is supposed to be the reference
             implementation).  This is probably an hour of work, and somebody
             has probably already written the mutt-like-pine .muttrc if you're
             feeling lazy.
           * Why aren't you using SSL?  It is trivial to set up in both
             Courier and Cyrus, and not completely gross in UW.  You realize
             it takes about five minutes and costs nothing to roll your own
             CA, and create a cert for your imap server(s)?  Yes, self-signed
             certs are a pain with some client software, but since your
             concern is the dour-naysayer big fat sysadmin types, they'll
             figure it out.
             \_ we're not fat.  we don't have time to eat.  we spend our
                waking (and sleeping) hours cleaning up other people's messes
                and implementing other people's fucked up plans and then
                fixing them after the obvious happens.
                \_ You're well into your 30s and still using pine.  This is
                   the behavior of someone who likes putting out fires, not
                   someone who thinks strategically and applies his efforts to
                   minimize fires which buys more time in the long run.
                   \_ I'm well into my 30s and using mh.  pine doesn't even
                      exist on my systems.  -- !fat, !time, !stupid, sysadmin
                      \_ And you still feel the need to seek approval from
                         anonymous motd posters.  How's that working for you?
                         \_ That's one interpretation.  Wrong, but if you want
                            to think that, whatever.  You feel the need to
                            insult and attack anonymous motd posters.  How's
                            *that* working for *you*?  See?  It goes both ways
                            yet still means nothing.
           * The UW mailtool program (included with UW IMAP, I think) is your
             friend.  Sadly, there still exists no swiss army knife for
             converting between mailbox formats, but the UW mailtool is fairly
             good, and it speaks IMAP so you can convert mbox spools to
             maildir by having it talk to your maildir format IMAP server.
             Oh, yeah, if all your mail start being reported as the wrong date
             (i.e. the day you converted it), that's due to the maildir
             format, and how Courier implements it.  Notably, Cyrus, which
             uses its own maildir-like format (more or less non-standard
             maildir plus index file) does not suffer from this problem.
           * Bug me if you have any interest in running Cyrus, I have notes I
             took in order to write a how-to at some point in the future.
           - dans
2004/4/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:13117 Activity:nil
4/9     did the bush administration actually say that we would be greeted as
        liberators or is that hippie propoganda? also, if it is true, what's
        the conservative response to that claim? is it that the vast majority
        of iraqis are happy for what we did? sorry for trolling, but i don't
        follow the news closely enough to remember what was actually said.
        \_ You and everyone else.
        \_ it's a "small group of criminals and thugs" who are causing
           trouble right now
        \_ C'mon now, you can type "greeted as liberators" into google
           for yourself and find out.
2004/4/9-10 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:13118 Activity:nil
4/9     War is hell:
        \_ no it's not, it's like walking in the park!
2004/4/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:13119 Activity:nil
4/9     Url without descriptive comment purged.
2004/4/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13120 Activity:nil
4/9     Any comments on Bodik's cs164 class from last fall?  I was looking
        over the assignments and they look interesting-
        \_ i took it last fall. the projects were really interesting and he is
           a good lecturer. i'd recommend taking the class from him. if you'd
           like more info, email me - erikk
2004/4/9-10 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:13121 Activity:nil
4/9     Anybody using Eclipse's CDT package?  Is it possible to sync the
        gdb view with the current code that is being executed?
2004/4/9-11 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:13122 Activity:low
4/9     What browser do OS X users use? I use Safari but 3-4 of the sites I
        frequently visit have problems with it, so then I fall back to FireFox
        and as a last ditch effort, IE.
        \_ There's a way to enable the "Debug" menu in Safari. I forgot what
           it is but it's some XML preference. From there, you can switch
           your "User Agent".
           \_ Type the following in Terminal and restart Safari:
              defaults write IncludeDebugMenu 1
        \_ I use mozilla because, despite the fact that it's much slower, it is
           also a lot more feature rich than Safari.
        \_ I had to juggle among the 4.  BTW, Safari beta was quite fast but
           since 1.0 it has become intolerably slower.  Mozilla/FF, however,
           behave rather strangely at times and often refuse to download
           images on the web page.  I also notice at lease one place where
           the current version of Safari version of safari is less compatible
           than earlier one:
        \_ windows and IE have no problem on any web pages.  if you can't
           beat em, join em!  windows/IE >>> non-windows/non-IE.
           \_ not totally true.  Since the windows updates last fall, IE
              on W2K and XP acts strangely with backslashes in some tags.
              But, since most website design targets Windows IE users, this
              doesn't show up much.
              \_ Exactly.  IE is the most popular and thus the best and that's
                 why everything is tested and works on it.  I'll bet those
                 few broken things don't work on other browers either.
                 \_ One HUGE place where windows IE out of the box sucks
                    is that it doesn't block popups by default. Other features
                    include Auto-Form Fill and Tabbed Browsing. Also, Safari
                    lets me hit back on pages that I visited that contained
                    forms, where WindowsIE won't let me. --mac/windows user.
                    \_ why would you want to block popups?  it's called
                       targetted advertising.  if you didn't want those
                       products you wouldn't be on those websites.  popups
                       are good!  they pay for the web.  IE has autoform fill
                       and had it long before mozilla.  safari didn't even
                       exist when IE had autoform fill.  tabs are for babies.
                       just open another window.  what is the point of tabs
                       when you're just getting more pages that your browser
                       can't read anyway?  while tabbing, mozilla will often
                       freeze the curernt window so you're not really getting
                       the multi tab features tabbing should provide.  and
                       lastly i dont know what your BACK problem is.  i can go
                       forwards/backwards through my history with no problem.
                       IE won the browser wars for a reason: it is superior to
                       the third party alternatives due to innovation and
                       leading the pack, not following it.
        \_ I use IE, even though M$ dropped support for it.
           \_ There are also Opera for Mac and a browser from the OmniGroup.
              Anyone used them at all?
2004/4/9-10 [Science/Electric] UID:13123 Activity:high
4/9     This is one of the most elaborate April Fool's articles I've seen
        so far:
        \_ what evidence is there that it is an intentional April Fool's prank
           and not just another article about some crackpot?
           \_ "The laws of thermodynamics WILL BE obeyed in this house, young
2019/01/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:April:09 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>