Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:April:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2002/4/29 [Recreation/Media] UID:24622 Activity:nil
4/28    Do people go to the movies alone?
        \_ I do.
           \_ sad. wait for it come on video
              \_ i think video is much more social than seeing a
                 movie in the theater.  if you sit silently in a theater
                 for two hours with no breaks, you're just watching a movie.
                 if you hang out in an apartment with a bunch of friends
                 watching videos, it's social. i think it makes more sense
                 to go to movies alone, but have people over to watch videos.
                 watching a movie as a couple alone in an apartment
                 also has definite advantages over the theater besides cost.
2002/4/29 [Uncategorized] UID:24623 Activity:nil
4/28    Canadian apoligsts on the march.
        http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/goldstein_apr28.html
2002/4/29 [Uncategorized] UID:24624 Activity:nil
4/28    BDG, was this you?  http://www.duke.edu/~kwmac/marcel.htm
2002/4/29 [Uncategorized] UID:24625 Activity:nil
4/28    Zero content meaningless message purged.
2002/4/29 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24626 Activity:high
4/29    csua members Lea Kissner, Paul Twohey, and Alex Fabrikant will get
        awards at the 2002 CS Awards ceremony. 4pm, 306 Soda Hall, May 7.
        (sorry if I missed anyone)
        \_ For?
           \_ Schmoozing well?
              \_ Pretty much. <shrug> -alexf
              \_ I see some things never change.  -alum
        \_ even with the kissup, Lea still can't make it to Berkeley's grad
           school. What does that say about the quality of Berkeley undergrad
           these days?
           \_ I thought it had more to do with everyone and their cousin
              applying for grad school this year.
              applying for grad school this year. -geordan
                \_ insufficient ass kissing.
                \_ shut up, Lea.
                   \_ Fine.  Make me sign my posts consistently. -geordan
           \_ Uh, dude, Lea >> most of the grad students I've met at Berkeley,
              and if you don't believe anon-hozers on the motd, ask David
              Wagner. - !lea, !geordan
                \_ If Lea >> most Cal grad students and Lea != get into Cal
                   then either a) you're wrong about Lea, b) you're wrong about
                   the grad students you met (similar to a for our purposes)
                   or c) there's another criteria you're not considering for
                   getting into Cal's grad program.  Your call.
                   \_ Uh, that would be c).  Other criteria being a) Most Cal
                      grad students I've met were admitted under much less
                      competitive conditions.  Namely, most current Cal grad
                      students admitted under "Please come to grad school
                      instead of running off to start a dot com!" climate as
                      opposed to current "Please let me into grad school
                      instead of making me face the cold hard financial
                      realities of the post bubble job market!" and b) Lea
                      doesn't suck up.  She's just smart.  I could see how
                      this would work against someone in the Cal admissions
                      process.  I can go on if you like, but I think I've
                      made my point clear.
                      P.S. Hi Ilyas!
2002/4/29 [Computer/HW] UID:24627 Activity:nil
4/28    The future of Desktop Computing:
        http://msbetas.net/longhorn/files/longhorn.zip
        \_ The future of Desktop Computing is on my dick!  -tjb
2002/4/29 [Uncategorized] UID:24628 Activity:nil
4/28    Barbie Creator Dies:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1956000/1956180.stm
        http://www.chillibomb.com/barbie/index.htm (some rejected barbies)
        \_ #9
        \_ The lactating one has just the shape as the original Barbie.
2002/4/29 [Computer/Rants, Health/Sleeping] UID:24629 Activity:nil
4/28    http://www.cybcon.com/~weitzeo
        \_ can't sleep.  clown will eat me.  can't sleep.  clown will eat me.
2002/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24630 Activity:kinda low
4/28    Yugoslav massacre, Israeli massacre.
        http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27423
        \_ Umm, yeah. Poor Sharon, just like Milosevic. Vicims of
           an obvious European plot to frame them for genocide.
           \_ Maybe you didn't notice but Milosevic was doing quite well
              defending himself in court, eh?  And on what do you base this
              oddly trusting warm fuzzy feeling about the Europeans?  Are you
              trying to claim the stuff in this article is untrue?
        \_ Why no mention of Victor Drazen in this article?
2002/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24631 Activity:insanely high
4/28    This is not a troll, I'm just curious. If Germany still has a pretty
        strong Nazi presence (esp from E Germany where unemployment is high
        and education is low), how come Japan doesn't seem to have their
        Imperialistic equivalence?
       \_ HELLO!!!! What the hell are you thinking?  There is a much
           stronger imperialistic presence in Japan than those of Germany.
           Instead of being executed like their German counter part, those who
           commit crime against humanities are being WORSHIPPED by many
           the top leaders in Japan.  Prime Minister of Japan just visited
           the Shrine dedicated to those "war heros" of WW2.  Even today,
           Japanese Text book does not admit that whatever they did was
           "aggression."
           The relationship between Imperial Japan and American is a lot more
           closer than you think.  Prior to Pearl Harbor, it's AMERICAN who
           supplies scrap iron, petroleums and other war material to Japan
           while Japanese Imperial Army was ravaging throughout the Northen/
           North Eastern China.  After Japanese Surroundered, American decided
           to leverage Japan to counter the raise of Communist power in China.
           By doing so, American pratically forgave Japan and its crime against
           China and the rest of the Asia.  This policy is enforced until this
           day.  Consider Japan never even admit that they were at fault at
           first place, consider that Japan has killed more than 20 million
           Chinese during the war, which they shows no remorse nor slight
           hint of apologistic attitude toward it.  This would only fuel the
           ultra-nationalist sentiment in the mainland China itself.
           American, whose policy has been closely aligned with Japan both
           before and after WW2, who has been extremely lenient toward the
           crime which Japan committed, is being logically viewed as the
           imperialist corporate today.                 -kngharv
                \_ so where are the pro-Japanese pro-Imperial dominance
                   and pro-expansionist/pro-war protests?
                   \_ They happened on a fairly regular basis while I was
                      there and were reported in the news. We just
                      don't hear about it here. Awhile ago, a far right
                      group assassinated the mayor of Nagasaki for being too
                      critical of Japan's past conduct, among other things.
                        -- ulysses
                      \_ You can also read Chinese, Hong Kong, Taiwan or Korean
                         news media if you want to keep up with these.  They
                         pay much more attention to Imperial-Japanese-related
                         events than the US media does.
                         \_ The Japanese are our friends.  They like golf.  We
                            like golf.  The Japanese are our friends.  I'll bet
                            Bin Laden doesn't play golf.
           \_ Hey what'd you expect?  After a good bit of moral blindness as
              seen below on this thread, suddenly the US has something to
              apologise for and Japan is all victims. Weird. Go figure. Cal.
        \_ Ever see all the war memorials dedicated to their veterans? Ever
           see them apologize? War veterans who got away passed into ranks of
           politicians.  They'll never apologize for Bataan, just as much as
           the U.S. will never apologize for Hiroshima. [motd formatd]
           \_ The US has nothing to apologize for.  The Japanese do.
              \_ you're an idiot.
                 \_ Uh yeah you sure showed me!  When did they start letting
                    third graders into Cal?  Get off your dad's computer.
                    \_ it was a fucking nuclear bomb you idiot. your post
                        didn't warrant an explanation.
                        \_ Yes, it was a very high yield radiation bomb.  And?
                           So what?  Maybe you'd prefer the higher death tolls
                           on *both* sides from a conventional invasion?  Yes,
                           it does warrant a real reply.  You're
                           intellectually weak.  "It was a nuclear bomb" is
                           not an answer to anything.  I await your ignorant
                           reply, although I honestly expect you'll either
                           censor the whole thing or just insult me again.  I
                           again say the US has *nothing* to be sorry for and
                           Japan has *much* to be sorry for and has yet to come
                           to grips with the crimes they committed in the 30s
                           and 40s.
                           \_ Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian targets.
                              1/4M civilians were killed in violation of the
                              Geneva convention. This is something we should
                              regret, even if Japan as a country deserved it.
                              Would you nuke Baghdad to teach Hussein a
                              lesson? -!OP
                              \_ Imperial Japan was going to use 'civilians'
                                 in the defense of the islands from US
                                 invasion.  Due to excessive propaganda, this

                                 was mostly voluntary.  There were no civilians
                                 on the islands at the time.
                                 \_ even if this is true, which i'm not
                                    entirely convinced of, how can you
                                    rationalize the second bomb?
                                    \_ They hadn't surrendered yet.  The
                                       situation hadn't changed.
                              \_ This wasn't about 'teaching them a lesson'.
                                 You're again being intellectually dishonest.
                                 It was about ending the war asap with as few
                                 deaths on both sides as possible and you know
                                 it.  You're now veering into troll territory.
                                 And no I don't favor nuking Baghdad at this
                                 time but if doing so would save more lives
                                 than not doing so I would be in favor.
                                 \_ *I'm* veering into troll territory?
                                    Japan was already trying to surrender
                                    \_ Please explain how one 'tries' to
                                       surrender and provide URL.
                                       \_ By negotiating via a third party.
 http://www.lehman.cuny.edu/litstudies/programs/MotionWeb/webassign/gar.html
                                          \_ I read this, and although
                                             it suggests that the japanese
                                             were considering surrender, I
                                             did not see conclusive evidence
                                             that they had started negotiating.
                                             Try Again.
                                          \_ I just got done reading the whole
                                             thing also.  I also didn't see
                                             where it says anything like you
                                             claim it does.  Ya know, when you
                                             post a URL you better make sure it
                                             says what you think it says.  Some
                                             of us actually read entire URLs.
                                    when we nuked them. If we were really
                                    trying to save civilian lives, we would
                                    have accepted their terms. It is pretty
                                    \_ You mean the terms where we just go
                                       away and they get to keep their evil
                                       slave ridden raping imperial empire?
                                       The one soaking in the blood of innocent
                                       Chinese?  Even the Nazis in Nanking
                                       were shocked by what the Japanese did.
                                       \_ Any URL on "the Nazis in Nanking were
                                          shocked ..." part?  Thanks.  --- yuen
                                          \_ History Channel.  The Nazis were
                                             running a medical facility/camp in
                                             one part of the city.  The Nazi Dr
                                             running the place wrote in his
                                             personal diaries and letters home
                                             how sickening it was and also
                                             took action to keep the Japanese
                                             from entering his 'sanctuary'.  I
                                             could find the name with some
                                             research if this isn't enough for
                                             you.
                                    clear we were positioning ourselves for
                                    post-WWII (cold war) advantage, as well
                                    as ensuring that the Emperor would never
                                    \_ Of course we didn't want the Emperor
                                       in place, duh.  What's wrong with that?
                                       You make it sound like the Emperor was
                                       a good thing in some bizarre way.
                                    rise to power again. In hindsight, they
                                    were probably both good reasons, but it
                                    was by no means clear at the time.
                                    \_ It was quite clear at the time.  Read
                                       a history book published outside Japan.
                                    Nonetheless, the massacre of hundreds of
                                    thousand of innocents should be dismissed
                                    so lightly.
                                    \_ It wasn't a massacre.  It was the
                                       strategic killing of hundreds of
                                       thousands (I'll grant those who died
                                       later from radiation, etc).  I don't
                                       dismiss it lightly.  I don't dismiss it
                                       all.  It was a very tough call and we
                                       did the right thing and have nothing
                                       to be sorry about morally.  The Japanese
                                       have lots to be sorry about morally and
                                       have yet to own up to 99% of it.  Please
                                       don't put words in my mouth.  I take
                                       the death of hundreds of thousands very
                                       very seriously which is why I don't
                                       make the trivial "nuke = bad" equation.
                                       The dead don't care how they died. BTW,
                                       are you aware of the fire bombing we did
                                       in Germany?  We targetted civilian areas
                                       under the principle that civilians are
                                       a strategic resource bc they're the ones
                                       who build the hardware and supply the
                                       food, clothing, fuel, etc, that keeps
                                       the military running.  Do you feel the
                                       same about the 'depopulation' bombing
                                       we did as the two nukes in Japan?
                         Not to mention, the Dresden bombing killed around _/
                         200,000 people which is more than twice the number
                         of dead from Hiroshima. But since it wasn't nuclear
                         weapons no one cares.
        \_ Japanese aggression passed into the economic sector.
           Unfortunately, it was just as unsuccessful there.  Witness the
           current state of their economy.
           \_ Suckers got cleaned out on the golf course thing.
        \_ They do.
        \_ Russia recently seems to have a strong neo-Nazi presence in form of
           "skinheads" in the large cities. Who'd think that would ever
           happen?
           \_ One of the few good things the communists did was suppress all
              forms of blatant racism although they did keep track of ethnic
              demographics.  Officially they had 15 groups.
              \_ Except state-sponsored racism, of course.  Ever tried to get
                 admitted to a good Soviet university as a Jew?
                 \_ Well yeah sure they still mistreated Jews but Jews run
                    the world and oppress everyone they encounter so there's
                    no such thing as racism against Jews.  They're just trying
                    to restore balance betwee the Jews and those they oppress,
                    so it's ok.
                    \_ Sort of like how African Americans can't be racist
                       because they're an historically oppressed minority?
                \_ The Communists also broke the back of religion in
                   Russia and replaced it with rationalism, which is
                   no small feat.
                   \_ Not really.  Orthodox Christianity is making a comeback
                      in a major way in Russia.  You can't force people into
                      progress against their wills.
                      \_ And the Catholic Church is making a big move into
                         Orthodox territory too.  As far as progess goes, I
                         don't consider all religion bad or all atheism good.
                         I'm an atheiest but I do understand how religion and
                         belief in a higher power can help an otherwise broken
                         people get through one more day without resorting to
                         the bottle or other killers.  There's a good reason
                         for the insanely high alcohol related death rates in
                         Russia/Former Soviet States.
                         \_ is religion good for anything else?
                            \_ IMO, not really.  I don't believe it should be
                               used to keep people down but people who are
                               already down are often better off with it than
                               without it.  --atheist
                         \_ I read a few months ago that the Cathonic the
                            Orthodox Churches were in talks towards
                            re-unification.
2002/4/29 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:24632 Activity:kinda low
4/28    What do people use for getting cheap tickets online?  I just tried
        http://travelocity.com, http://cheaptickets.com, http://priceline.com, http://hotwire.com and they
        all sucked.
        \_ hotwire if you're flexible, orbitz if you're not. Also, a friend
           just got a good deal directly with JetBlue.          - rory
           \_ not much destinations.
        \_ unfortunately, a lot has to do with timing (ie, getting 'em
           early). i once bought tix to hawaii that doubled in price only
           two days later.
        \_ Used travelocity and got great prices on everything. 5 weeks in
           advance.  Short term prices are *always* really high no matter how
           you look for them.  The sites don't suck, you planned poorly.
        \_ Ebay.  Search for Southwest Rapid Rewards, unless you're flying
           elsewhere.
2002/4/29 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Reference/Military] UID:24633 Activity:high
4/29    Cloning isn't safe:
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4218077%255E13762,00.html
        \_ Most new technologies and especially medical procedures aren't
           safe when first developed.  You ever been in a plane?  How about
           the Wright's plane?  Thought so.
        \_ They've already created cloned mice that are four times normal size.
           I wonder if they would accidentally created a monster mouse that
           grows to the size of a dinosaur.
           \_ Yeah they'll just keep feeding it until it's 3 stories high and
              not notice and then it'll eat Tokyo or New York.
                \_ that'd be COOL!
                   \_ I hope it's Tokyo.  They can rebuild that city so
                      fast.  They've got it down to an art, what with all
                      the godzilla attacks and whatnot.
2002/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24634 Activity:high
4/29    4th Amendment RIP:
        http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=3936063&BRD=982&PAG=461&dept_id=467992&rfi=6
        \_ It's only Michigan.  How many can find Michigan on a map?
           \_ It's only Poland. How many can find Poland on a map?
              - N. Chamberlain
                \_ Peace with honor!  Look ma!  We got a piece of paper!
        \_ "An officer executing a search is not required to give a copy of the
            affidavit to the person or leave a copy at the place from which the
            property was taken" - so the cops can take your stuff and not tell
            you that they did?
            \_ yes.
            \_ Yeah this is obviously about giving cops the power to burglar
               your cd collection under the cloak of the law.  Duh.  Not.
2002/4/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24635 Activity:kinda low
4/29    Gamble: Davis bets the state budget on his re-election
        "This time, they say, the budget hole will probably
        fall in the $20 billion to $22 billion range...
        The final damage is hard to estimate because Davis,
        instead of getting serious about scaling back state
        spending (which has swelled by 36 percent under his watch)..."
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/674923/posts
        \_ No one cares what you idiot inbreds think.
        \_ No one cares what Simple Simon and his inbred supporters
           think. Give it up.
           \_ This state needs a real leader.  Someone with vision.  Someone
              who cares.  A man like... Gray Davis.
        \_ Post the god damned original link not the freeper crap.
           http://www.presstelegram.com/archive/opinions/0402/29/edi02.asp
2002/4/29-30 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24636 Activity:low
4/29    little history quiz: why were Hiroshima and Nagasaki chosen?
        why not tokyo?
        \_ Duh, obviously because Godzilla had already done so much damage to
           Tokyo what was the point of that?
        \_ Tokyo housed much of the Japanese Government.  The Allies had to
           have some government left with which to work in post-war occupation
           and rebuilding.  Also, Truman personally objected to destroying any
           of the historical landmarks or architecture in Tokyo and Kyoto.
           Had the US destroyed say the Japanese imperial palaces, I think the
           post-war occupation and rebuilding of Japan would have been very
           different and difficult.  Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities that,
           while civilian, were home to mostly military/industry.  --Jon
           \_ I saw an interview with a guy who survived Nagasaki.  He said it
              was the local populace's theory at the time (pre-bombing) that
              they were not being conventionally bombed because the Americans
              were saving the cultural treasures in his city.  I don't know if
              Nagasaki had any true cultural treasures more than any other
              city but I do know Tokyo had been previously bombed
              conventionally and the Americans wanted 'fresh' cities to nuke
              so they could do clean damage assessment afterwards.  *OR* you
              could go along with my Godzilla theory mentioned earlier.
              \_ "fresh city" for damage assessment is also a good reason,
                 but Kyoto, which was on the target list, was also an
                 unbombed list.  There were many reasons for !Tokyo and for
                 !Kyoto.  --Jon
                 \_ I think the main reason though was definitely fear of
                    waking Godzilla.  Although this happened later circa
                    1999-2000, NYC was spared ~55 years of monster damage
                    and repeat visits.
              \_ I read a long article on Reader's Digest maybe 20 years ago
                 written by one of the flight crew that dropped the bombs.  It
                 said one reason to choose those two cities was that they
                 haven't been bombed, so the Japanese govt wasn't expecting the
                 US to bomb it and so the air defense there was weak.  The
                 article might also have mentioned the need of clean damage
                 assessment but I don't remember.
        \_ It was an industrial base.
        \_ Perhaps a word of mouth but someone told me it's because the weather
           over Tokyo wasn't allowing for the pilots to do visual so at the
           last minute, it was decided that H & N are to be target. I'm not
           sure what the radar technology was like in 1945 but this is just
           what I heard.
           \_ H&N were 'set aside' while Tokyo was getting bombed to shit by
              conventional explosives (70+k dead).  Damage assessment on
              undamaged target cities.
              \_ this is the only correct anwser.
                 \_ Wrong, damage assement was only one of the criteria.
                    Weather and visual bombing conditions were also very
                    important as was the strategic military value of the
                    targets.
2002/4/29 [Recreation/Humor, Reference/Religion] UID:24637 Activity:nil
4/29    This would be almost funny if it wasn't so fucked up.  Catholic
        Cardinal blames 6 year old boy for being molested.  Just fucking
        amazing....
        http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/119/metro/An_alleged_victim_is_called_negligent+.shtml
        \_ The _really_ sad thing...  The boy probably blames himself, too.
        \_ Why is this surprising Boston is among the most liberal cities
           in the US.  Reap what you sow.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:April:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>