Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:03 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/6/3 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:37952 Activity:nil
6/2     Don't know enough about watergate... why Mark Felt didn't
        go to Grand Jury instead?  What is the risk of going through
        the grand jury?
        \_ When your boss is involved in the incident...
        \_ Why be known as the whistleblower when reporters can do all the
           dirty work, get some credit as well, and it won't look like he
           did it just to screw Nixon.
           \- Do you know what the "saturday night massacre" refers to
              w.r.t. to watergate? also see united states v nixon. ok tnx.
              [btw, the two legacies of the SNM are BORK and STARR]
2005/6/3 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37953 Activity:nil
6/2     yaBlueToothHack:
2005/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37954 Activity:high
6/2     Wow, Ben Stein has a... different view of Nixon.
        \_ Ben Stein has always quite proudly been a Republican
           tool.  G Gordon Liddy's views on Nixon are funnier. - danh
           \_ No, the funniest was probably the recent Peggy Noonan column,
              where she called W. Mark Felt a bringer of death and then
              claimed that the most honorable man in the Nixon administration
              was Chuck Colson.
              \_ Mark Felt is actually Pol Pot's father.
           \_ Not just a republican tool. He was a speechwriter and lawyer
              for Nixon.
        \_ Not really, if you saw Nixon it has a lot of the points
           made by Stein, and I doubt Stone is a fan of the RNC.
           As for the Khmer Rouge allegation, I highly doubt that
           though. Would the KR have ever existed if we had gotten
           out of Vietnam earlier? It's an interesting point because
           \_ Or if we had stayed out of cambodia, period.
           it was the Vietnamese who finally overthrew KR. Also,
           would the KR have ever existed without the Vietnamese
           conflict? Most likely not. It's really tricky to determine
           geopolitics like this. Nixon also probably would have let
           KR happen, Nam was a lost cause, and getting China was much
           more important than protecting southeast asia.
        \_ Stein is correct. Nixon was a good president and a
           decent human being who was unfairly attacked by the
           left wing nut-cases in this country. He got overly
           involved in a minor crime which was his ONLY fault.
           \_ "Only"...  If you can't find faults in a leader, you're following
              a little too blindly.
           \_ "Now there are some who would like to rewrite history:
              revisionist historians is what I like to call them." --GWB
           \_ "I don't want to see this country to go that way.  You
              know what happened to the Greeks.  Homosexuality
              destroyed them. Sure, Aristotle was a homo, we all know
              that, so was Socrates."  -RMN
           \_ "They're not like us. They smell different, they look
              different, they act different.  The trouble is, you
              can't find one that's honest."  -Nixon on Italians
           \_ "You know, it's a funny thing, every one of the bastards
              that are out for legalizing marijuana is Jewish. What
              the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob? What is the
              matter with them? I suppose it is because most of them
              are psychiatrists."  -RMN
           \_ "Do you know what happened to the Romans?  The last six
               Roman emperors were fags. . . .  You know what happened
               to the popes?  It's all right that popes were laying
               the nuns."  -RMN
           \_ "You have to face the fact that whole problem is really
              the blacks. The key is to divise a system that reconizes
              this while not appearing to..."  -RMN
              \_ I guess it makes sense that Nixon is a hero to the
                 anonymous troll wingnuts.  -tom
                 \_ ... and to Ben Stein!
                        \_ Am I naive to think that a President doesn't
                           have to massively abuse his power to be President?
2005/6/3-4 [Recreation/Media] UID:37955 Activity:low
6/2     scotsman - are you going to be doing another Shakespeare play
        this summer? Last years was really cool.
        \_ I'm not, unfortunately.  I started a new job that's too far from
           rehearsals, and don't have enough time off yet to do them anyway.
           SF Shakes should be very good this year, though.  And Marin Shakes
           and Shakes at Stinson are always a pretty safe bet (though IIRC,
           Stinson's not actually doing any shakespeare play this year).
           Cal Shakes is really hit or miss.  Also, the next two weekends
           are my choir's Jazz and Pop A Cappella concert.  Should be very
           fun. --scotsman
           p.s.  I must have been thinking of a different festival.  Stinson
           is doing Richard III and Much Ado.  R3 is the same director as
           the 12th Night I was in last year.  Hector Correa (Much Ado) is
           also pretty good, but Kelleher (12th Night, R3) is also directing
           SF Shakes' Much Ado this summer.
2005/6/3-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37956 Activity:nil
6/3     Every once in a while, Feinstein shows herself as worthy.
        (re: filibusters)
2005/6/3-4 [Computer/HW/Memory] UID:37957 Activity:low
6/3     From
        ...Skipping all the mumbo jumbo about legality and what not,
        if it came from Proliant, I'd guess that they're registered
        DIMMs.  What kind of motherboards are you putting them into?
        Most consumer boards don't support registered memory.
        \_ This is probably the most useful reply I've ever gotten. The
           eBay site doesn't say anything about the RAM besides the fact
           it came from a Compaq Proliant Server. Now that I'm looking at
           the RAM, it says "256MB, Sync, 100Mhz, CL3, ECC." Does Sync mean
           "Registered RAM?" My Motherboard is an ASUS 5PA and accord to
           the manual it takes 256MB 100Mhz modules. For ECC it says
           "ECC or Parity Support, 66Mhz only," and I've set the jumper to
           66Mhz but still no luck. The manual says nothing about registered
           RAM. What do you think? Thanks,                      -pp
           \_ Actually, one of the "keys" (dimple in the middle of the
              connector pins) is different for buffered and unbuffered DIMMs.
              In that sense, it _shouldn't_ even fit correctly if the type is
              \_ Not true. Plenty of memory that 'fits correctly' is
                 incorrect and will not work.
                 \_ Which doesn't address the specific case of whether buffered
                    vs unbuffered are physically different.
           \_ Just downloaded manual from ASUS and checked.  It says:
              This motherboard uses only Dual Inline Memory Modules (DIMMs).
              Sockets are available for 3.3Volt (power level) unbuffered
              Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory (SDRAM) of either 8,
              16, 32, 64, 128MB, or 256MB to form a memory size between 8MB
              and 768MB.
              Unbuffered == Non-registered.
              To tell if it's registered, see if there is any "register" chips
              on the DIMM.  You should see either 9 or 18 DRAM chips since
              it's got ECC.  If you see other chips that are not capacitors
              nearer to the contacts, you've got registered DIMMs.  If so, it
              probably won't work on that board.
              \_ I got 9 chips, and on the bottom are two smaller chips
                 which I assume are registers? Ok, so I bought the wrong
                 type. The eBay site doesn't say anything about ECC/Register,
                 so it's my fault then? Should I resell it or report to eBay
                 on ambiguous/misleading eBay?
                 \_ I don't see what you have to complain about.  I mean,
                    it sounds like this guy didn't know what he had, and
                    you didn't know what to ask.  Life lesson I guess.
2005/6/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:37958 Activity:kinda low
6/3     Connie Chung is a Jew?
        \_ "Is Jewish" is the phrase you probably want to use.
                \_ why? just curious.
           \_ You're dumb.
        \_ She married a Jew, so (like it says at the bottom) she
           converted to Judaism.
        \_ mmm....Jewish Korean American princess.  Is that double
           the maintenance?  *bwahaha*
           \_ Page says she's chinese, not korean.  Does that make you a
              \_ God damned right!  I am a racist!  Korean American Princesses
                 are so high-maintenance, it's a wonder anyone marries them
                 at all.  I have no idea how high-maintenance Chinese American
                 Princesses are or if such a concept exists.
                 \_ Was your Korean gf high-maintenance, sky?
2005/6/3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37959 Activity:nil
6/2     UN says weapons equipment is missing in Iraq:
        \_ Dual-use equipment.  Be exact.
           What the fuck are we doing there?!
2005/6/3-6 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:37960 Activity:nil
6/2     The fourth world, I like that idea:
2005/6/3-6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:37961 Activity:nil
6/2     Helicopter lands on Everest:
        \_ What's so special about it?  Choppers land on mountais everywhere.
           \_ Everest is the highest mountain in the world.  It's difficult
              to fly a helicopter in thin air.
           \_ This was the first time a helicopter managed to land on
              \-It was my understanding helicopers rarely went above basecamp
                and the highest rescues were in the 20k-22k feet range.
                Some what morbidly in the Everest area you see helicopers
                maybe once a day ... you see them zoom in, and then
                *immediately* come back heading in the other direction ...
                and you know somebody is not a happy camper. sometimes you
                are higher up then they are. also the landing strip at
                lukla [main place to fly into the Everest area] is something
                to see.
                \_ I think the missing piece is "first time a helicopter lands
                   on the PEAK of Everest"
2005/6/3-6 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37962 Activity:nil
6/2     yaBlueToothHack:
        \_ So Bluetooth uses symmetric key exchange in an unencrypted
           wireless channel? Is that correct? If that's true then
           whoever developed the Bluetooth encryption protocol wasn't
           thinking too hard.
           \_ Math is hard.
2005/6/3-4 [Health, Health/Men] UID:37963 Activity:high
6/3     I went to get a haircut and they recommended some new shampoo
        because I may be losing some hair (which may have some truth
        to it...). I've been using generic shampoo. Are there any
        truth to what they are saying? Would the more expensive
        shampoo be better for my hair? -clueless guy
        \_ There could be. What was the name of the recommended shampoo?
           \_ I forgot, but it sold for about $30+ for one large bottle...
                \_ Well if it was called Nioxin (a fairly expensive shampoo
                   they often have in barber shops), yes it might be able to
                   help. It helps to prevent hair from falling out; it does
                   nothing to help regrow hair.
                   help. It helps to prevent more hair from falling out; it does
                   nothing to regrow hair.
                   \_ DANGER!!! nioxin is an anagram for "I Nixon".  It's
                      probably GOP brainwash putty in a bottle.
                   \_ Not true. Nioxin doesn't have Rogaine or anything
                      like that in it. It does, however, help make
                      thinning hair look more full. Lots of men say that
                      Nizoral (prescription strength) works. Of course,
                      you can also do pills.
                        \_ No, I was right. So what if it doesn't have
                           rogaine in it; tylenol doesn't have morphine
                           in it, but it still helps with pain. Rogaine
                           helps regrow hair. Nioxin tries to prevent
                           more hair from falling out. -pp
                           \_ No, there is no drug in Nioxin no matter
                              what it claims. It is not proven to do
                                \_ There's nothing in it? so it's just
                                   a bottle of nothing? interesting.
                                \_ OK so only drugs are effective?
                                   \_ There is no chemical in Nioxin which
                                      purports to do what they say it
                                      does, whether it's lemon balm or
                                      whatever. What is the active
                                      ingredient in Nioxin that prevents
                                      hair loss?
                                        \_ Yes you have a point (as Nioxin
                                           webpage's FAQ admits), but that
                                           doesn't mean it can't achieve
                                           an effect.
                                           \_ In that case, smear dogshit
                                              on your head. It might work.
                                                \_ Did you think of that
                                                   yourself? Damn you're
                      \_ Interesting, I was using Nizoral for the dandruff
                         (it's much better than Head & Shoulders, Selsun
                         Blue, etc.), but I didn't know it had a hair-retention
                         side effect.
2005/6/3-6 [Computer/Networking] UID:37964 Activity:kinda low
6/3     Wireless question:
        My Mac laptop stays connected all of the time, while my PCs (one
        laptop with a PCMCIA card and one desktop) constantly drop
        connections. If I reset the card the connection comes back up
        instantly. Signal strength is good. I have gone through 2 routers
        and multiple cards on the desktop with the same results. This
        happens with both 802.11b and 802.11g. Why does it do this and why
        does the Powerbook always work? The routers are a D-Link and a
        Netgear, BTW. One PC runs Win2K and other is Win XP, FWIW. I don't
        know what to try next, but this is annoying!
        \_ I know most 802.11b Prism 2.5 chipset cards out there need their
           firmware upgraded to behave better, but I don't know about your
           problems with 802.11g.  For some reason, most 802.11b prism cards
           come with the older firmware.
        \_ Maybe your cards suck. I know I've never had good experiences
           with d-link.
           \_ I tried a D-Link and a Linksys card. The laptop has an
              Orinoco and does the same thing.
              \_ I'm not the D-Link hater above, but I've had nothing but
                 trouble from D-Link access points.  YMMV.
                 \_ As I said, I have the same problem with a
                    Netgear WAP.
                    \_ I've never used Netgear wireless hw, so I can't comment
                       on that part. -pp
                       \_ So then what are you comparing D-Link to?
                          \_ Linksys.  I have never had problems with Linksys
                             APs, with several different brands of wirless
        \_ Try a Senao NL-2511MP Plus MiniPCI if you can get one.  200MW!
           W00t!  -John
           \_ I want a seano NL-2511MP Plus, with extra trouser ferrets
              \_ Alas, you'd need more power; I think Seano's out of range. :(
2005/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37965 Activity:high
6/3     I once read an article that says 70% of the Jews vote Democrat. Now,
        I kind of understand why 90% of the Blacks vote Democrat because it
        probably has something to do with Civil Liberty, but why Jews? I mean,
        don't they have the most [financial incentive] by voting Republican?
        \_ A large fraction of the Jews in my family are Trotskyist athiests.
           They typically hold their nose and vote Democrat, though.  I have
           seen no correlation between their income and their political
           positions.  One of the most dogmatic Trotskyists is a multi
        \_ Plus religious incentive.
           \_ Actually, in a recent article, the Economist argued that
              the process of defection of religious Jews from the Dem. to
              republican party has started during the 2004 election. In fact,
              one major thing that delayed this process was the fact that Joe
              Lieberman was running for vice pres. on the democratic ticket in
              2000.  They argued that these days people are starting to vote
              for one or another party not based on which religion they follow
              but based on the intensity of their faith. Given that, I wonder
              if this is also going to apply to blacks many of whom are
              religious and socially conservative.
              \_ Hello? Where have you been? Many Latinos and Blacks already
                 switched to Bush in 2004. California Latinos are much more
                 likely to go for Bush for whatever the reason. Even Asians,
                 \_ I think you pulled this from your ass.  in fact the one
                    report of an exit poll i just found had CA latinos voting
                    almost 3-1 for kerry.
                    \_ used to be 7-1 for Democrat 10 years ago. ?Que Paso?
                       \_ determined media campaigns.
                 esp. greedy Asian immigrants favor Bush for obvious reasons--
                 they fall into certain tax brackets that Kerry promised to
                 raise. Even Taiwanese people favor Bush because they believe
                 that Bush has the guts to stand up to China (which is totally
                 bullshit). Back in 2004 I saw quite a few Bush commercials
                 on channel 18, foreign channel, and none from Kerry. It's sad
                 to say this but Bush did a much better job appealing to
                 minority voters than his predecessors. As a result of double
                 fuckups from Gore and Kerry, we'll most likely see similar
                 voting patterns in 2008.           -Pissed Off Asian Liberal
        \_ What party was Lincoln?
        \_ Wow, that's one of the more racist comments I've seen.  All Jews are
           rich, eh?
           \_ You're mixing up the word racist and stereotype. I've always
              thought racist remarks are derogatory stereotypes. For example,
              the statement "all Asians are smart" is a stereotype but not
              racist. The statement "all Asians are sneaky" is a racist remark.
              \_ Wrong.  Both comments are racist stereotypical remarks.
              \_ You're an idiot.
                 \_ From Merriam Webster: "a belief that some races are by
                    nature superior to others." You're right, I'm an idiot.
                    \_ Yup, and you won't even realize it..
                       \_ Wow, you're a jerk. -!pp
              \_ No, I'm pretty sure racist just means "race based
                 \_ I think it's important to distinguish illegal acts inspired
                    by racism (such as discrimination, or racial violence)
                    and race-based stereotypes themselves.  I, personally, have
                    no problems with valid stereotypes, race-based or not.  If
                    that's racism, then I have no problem with that form of
                    racism. -- ilyas
                    \_ Russians are always drinking Vodka and drive like
                       they're drunk. It's a miracle that during the cold war
                       they didn't accidentally launch a nuke.
              \_ No, it's a fact.
           \_ No offense if you're a white trailer Joe, but on average, Jews
              have 2X the income and more than 2X the likelihood of going to
              college. In another word, Jews are smarter and more wealthy than
              your average trailer trash Joe that voted for Georgy.
              \_ I guess I have elaborated more:  all Jews are rich and that's
                 the only thing they care about?
        \_ I find it worrisome that the plebes are beginning to accept the
           idea of talking about "the jews" as some monolithic social body.
           It showcases a pretty spectacular decline in the level of
           civilization of the lower classes.  -John
           \_ I find it worrisome that John is beginning to accept the idea of
              talking about "the plebes" as some monolithic social body.
                -- ilyas
           \_ Hooookay....
           \_ Ever heard the saying "Ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions"?
              \_ No, but I've heard from a self deprecating Jew that to be a
                 Jew, you need to have a lot of money and a nose job.
2005/6/3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37966 Activity:insanely high
6/3     WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon on Friday released new details about
        mishandling of the Quran at the Guantanamo Bay prison for terror
        suspects, confirming that a soldier deliberately kicked the Muslim
        holy book and that an interrogator stepped on a Quran and was later
        fired for "a pattern of unacceptable behavior."
        In other confirmed incidents, water balloons thrown by prison guards
        caused an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet; a guard's urine
        came through an air vent and splashed on a detainee and his Quran; and
        in a confirmed but ambiguous case a two-word obscenity was written in
        English on the inside cover of a Quran.
        The findings, released after normal business hours Friday evening ...
        the new details, that his investigation "revealed a consistent,
        documented policy of respectful handling of the Quran dating back
        almost 2 1/2 years."
        \_ link:
        \_ link:
        \_ link: (
           And I really love the "guard's urine came through an air vent"
           rather than "a guard urinated through an air vent ..."  It's the
           urine's fault.
        \_ And Bush drank a keg and pissed on Clinton's lawn and committed
           sodomy on the Saudi Prince, yada yada yada yada yada. You know
           that sadly, no one in the office cares what Girlie Men have to
           say, right?
        \_ Official Bush admin policy:
           1) Good news is released on Monday if possible.
           2) Bad news is delayed until late Friday.
           3) Really really bad news is delays until late Friday before a 3
           3) Really really bad news is delayed until late Friday before a 3
              day weekend.
           \_ Clinton didn't do these?
              \_ He did Monica.  With a cigar, that is.
              \_ I don't know, did he? I'm talking about the Bush admin, not
        \_ The best part is the freeper response:
           "Who gives a Shiite?...listen closely as I drop kick one of my five
            versions of the Qur'an across the floor for my cats to chase"
           "Confiscate the damn books and burn them"
           "You're so right and we should feed them pork. ... Oh, and serve it
            to them on pages of the Koran."
           "They're deliberately undermining our war effort. They're evil."
           "Most Americans, given the chance, would piss on the Koran."
        \_ Who cares how the Koran was handled? What is the big deal if they
           flush it down the toilet or whatever? I just don't get it, its
           just a damn book, it you own a copy you ought to be able to do
           with it as you please.
           \_ I'll bet that line of reasoning won't get you far if you go to
              Saudi Arabia and start wiping your ass with pages from the Koran
              in public.
              \_ I loved hearing someone comparing the reported quran
                 desecration favorably with the crucifix-in-urine artwork.
                 Context is meaningless in bushworld.
                 \_ Oh yeah, tell me about how much better the posters on
                    DU are.
                    \_ Maybe it's just me, but I would expect more from
                       a media outlet than from the posters on DU.  It was
                       on some CNN show.
              \_ Heck, see how far you get in Saudi Arabia carrying a
                 bible in public.
        \_ So you commie-libs get a pass on burning the American flag
           because of "freedom of speech" ? What about those who hate America?
           I wish you could see the hypocrisy. This is a war. There really
           is only my way or the highway. I hope you remember that when
           you are sitting in your A/C office and a dirty bomb goes off
           and slowly kills your ass.
           \_ Yeah.  And we fight that war by abusing people who are
              rounded up in mass sweeps, the immense majority of whom had
              nothing to do with attacking us, here or there.  Fuck you.
              Do you really think peeing on a man helps us "fight terror"?
              Hint, when someone burns a flag, they're not doing it in front
              of someone they've arrested, strapped up by their wrists, and
              beaten to a fucking pulp.
              \_ You, (I assume) posted a while ago that we do mass
                 round ups in Iraq.  Do you actually belive we randomly
                 grab 50 Iraqis, beat them up, and pee on their Korans?
                 \_ The SouthComm report was talking about Afghanistan,
                    not Iraq.  That aside, yes I do believe we go and
                    round up 50 people at a time.  There have been reports
                    to that effect for the duration of the war.  There
                    are people in Iraq who, wanting to take their neighbor's
                    land, tell the authorities "Hey, guess who I overheard
                    plotting a bombing."  There is shit that happens in a
                    war zone that we can't control.  But the things we can
                    control, we should.  And if we fail at controlling it,
                    we can't just ignore that.  If your brother was being
                    held by a foreign army, would you be more or less willing
                    to abet someone planning to blow them up?
                    \_ You missed most of my question.  How interesting.
                       \_ I covered your question.  Whether we beat every
                          one of them up isn't the point.  We lock them away
                          with no legal recourse whether doing so benefits
                          us or not.
            \_ I think you should be allowed to burn, shit/piss on, etc.,
               the US flag, the Koran, the Bible, whatever.  They are just
               objects.  However, we are trying to win the hearts and minds
               of moderate Muslims, you know, part of the "WAR ON TERRA".
               If we, in addition to beating them to death, making human
               pyramids, etc., also defile the holy books of Muslim prisoners
               this makes us more and more likely to lose the PR campaign
               and that just cannot be good for our country.  So, I do not
               see any hypocracy.  The problem is not the desecration of the
               Koran -- the problem is the effect it has in the Muslim world.
2005/6/3-4 [Uncategorized] UID:37967 Activity:nil
6/3     On the lighter side of things...I hate it when this happens:
        \_ Why have a lighter side when you have the post above yours!
           Also, you should all watch "Crash".
           \_ Does this have any relationship to the spectacularly awful film
              of the same name by David Cronenberg? -dans
        \_ Here, go piss in someone else's pool:
2005/6/3-5 [Reference/BayArea, Transportation/Car] UID:37968 Activity:low
6/3     Going to Mendocino tomorrow. Recommendations on roads to take and
        traffic tips? I'm thinking of biiting the bullet and just taking
        1 all the way up. Leaving from Oakland. Is there ever a good time to
        try to cut through SF/GG Bridge? TIA. --erikred
        \_ Why not the san rafael bridge and up 101->128->1?  It'd be a lot
           faster, and still very pretty.
           \_ I grew up in Mendocino.  I highly recommend the 101->128->1
              route.  Highway 1 all the way up is not worth the length of
              the drive or the near death experiences involving Winnebagos.
        \_ Is tomorrow a holiday or is there something going on in Mendocino
           that would alter normal traffic patterns?  I don't normally find
           midday traffic to/from SF to be bad.  If you want to get to the GG
           bridge from the East Bay, may I recommend the Fell roll?
           Basically, grab 80 across the Bay Bridge, exit Civic Center.  Take
           a right on 9th St, change to the leftmost lane.  This drops you
           onto Hayes once you cross Market, stay in the left lane, turn left
           on Gough, right on Fell immediately thereafter.  The lights on Fell
           are timed, and this will take you all the way down to GG Park.
           Follow Fell past the panhandle and it cuves and drops you on to
           Lincoln.  Take Lincoln to 19th Ave, and turn right.  19th Ave turns
           into Park Presidio, which drops you on to the GG bridge. -dans
           \- if you are leaving from oakland, take richmond bridge ...
              clearly. i also think franklin to lombard is viable if you are
              going through SF for some reason. traffic at fell & jfk can get
              weird on weekends. and with no exit directly on to fell this
              is not that ideal any more. fulton on northside of park can
              also be faster than lincoln. [the advice above has 3 bits of
              backtracking: go south from hayes to fell, go south again
              to lincoln, go out to 19th to cross park on south when fulton
              will get you to park presideo around 14th]. --SF Route Optimizer
              \_ I agree that Franklin to Lombard is viable, but Lombard is
                 a total clusterfuck at all times both wrt bad timing of
                 lights and quantity of traffic.  The ``backtracking'' from
                 Hayes to Fell is literally one block.  Probably the worst
                 part of the route is getting from the 9th St./Civic Center
                 exit to Market and Hayes.  I agree, Fulton >> Lincoln, but it
                 requires an additional tricky turn (Stanyan northbound) from
                 Fell. -dans
2019/02/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:03 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>