Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:08 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2006/2/8-10 [Science/Space, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41759 Activity:nil
2/8     This is INSANELY funny.  Or, it would be if it weren't so prevalent
        a pattern in Bushco
        http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007628.php
2006/2/8 [Recreation/Dating, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41760 Activity:kinda low
2/7     God, I'm so love sick I'm miserable.  What to do to get my mind off?
        \_ if you want to get her off your mind you don't love her.
        \_ good troll. Surf for other trolls.
        \_ You need to talk to DER FURIOUS.
        \_ Concentrate on all the pain and suffering that can come out of
           a relationship gone bad.  Think about how much time and money
           and energy this could cost you.
        \_ Ask her/him/it out.  Solves the problem one way or another. -dans
        \_ This is as good as it will ever get, and it can only go down hill
           from here.  Walk away.
2006/2/8-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:41762 Activity:kinda low
2/8     Coretta King's funeral was attended by four presidents.  Was there
        anyone else, beside incumbent or ex- presidents, who ever had such
        honor in his/her funeral?
        \_ did you watch the CNN commentary?  did you hear the broadcaster
           making snide comments about hillary clinton running
           for president?  couldn't they have waited till after
           the funeral?  bleah.
           \_ I read the Yahoo news article and most speakers were trying to
              make their political points in the funeral.
              \_ "most"?  Do you know who Coretta King is?  What she did?  What
                 her friends who spoke there do?  Do you even know why you're
                 upset that any of them brought up politics?  You're extrapo-
                 lating a few seconds in a multi-hour service into a molehill
                 lating a few seconds in a multi-hour service into a scandal
                 because you've been told that's what happened.
                 \_ Of course I know.  Coretta is Rodney King's wife.  (Geez.)
              \_ Oh my god, the funeral of someone who spent their life
                 fighting political battles had eulogies that we about
                 those exact same battles.  How DARE they!
                 \_ And yet they won't let me piss on Reagan's grave...
        \_ Four Presidents and a Funeral.
        \_ Four Presidents and a Funeral.  Where's Monica?
        \_ I'm not 100% but I think several world leaders and presidents
           attended MacArthur's and Patton's funerals.
2006/2/8 [Recreation/Dating, Recreation/Humor] UID:41763 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
2/8     gayest thing ever
        http://www.hugi.is/hahradi/bigboxes.php?box_id=51208&f_id=1471
2006/2/8-9 [Reference/Religion] UID:41764 Activity:nil 92%like:41780
2/8     The three fake images used to inflame Muslims against Denmark:
        http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/02/islamic-society-of-denmark-used-fake.html
        \_ Is this site similar to http://www.theonion.com
           \_ No, it's just a blog.  Somehow, though, they manage to blame
              evil liberals by the first comment.
           \_ I didn't see the comments, it was just the easiest link I found
              to the three fake images. -op
        \_ Does anyone have links to the real images that the Danish
           printed?
2006/2/8-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:41765 Activity:moderate
2/8     linxu, what is it you guys want from us alumni? Many of us are
        old, disillusioned, lonely, pathetic, and pissed off engineers.
        Many of us are single, still virgin, and almost 40 years of
        age! I'm not so sure that hooking up old and pissed off alumni
        with you happy and optimistic youngin' is actually a good thing
        for you guys. Seriously, don't do engineering and GET A LIFE outside
        of Soda! Screw coding, debugging, and sysadm. It's all meaningless
        and dry, and will get outsourced to India and China anyways.  How
        about ditching your new technical mentoring program and instead
        concentrate on things that'll make your life to be more
        fulfilling when you're older. For example get someone from Cal
        MBA to do tech entrepreneurial talk, or get hooked up with the
        busadm people, like doing a CSUA+MBA+busadm event. Seriously, there
        are so many fine opportunities and fine women outside of Soda.
        You deserve to have a better life than many of us uninformed
        alumni when we were young and stupid and didn't know what we
        were doing.  -disillusioned virgin, should have done something else
        \_ I think its much more for those alumni who would be interested in
           meeting the current politburo and office hosers.  I know a few
           graduated alumns who I think would come and would be nice to see
           again.  This is not necessarily a networking to get current students
           jobs or ellicit donations, but just to involve the alumni with the
           club more.  When I'm an alum I'd like to go to something occasion-
           ally to see how the club is currently functioning.  This is very
           much geared to friendly alumns, so if you are just angry and bitter
           (and don't want to at least act friendly) you probably want to stay
           home. -mrauser
        \_ maybe you should move to an asian country where your poor
           english skills will be less of a barrier to finding eligible
           women.
        \_ speak for yourself.  I could have learned a lot from alumni
           when I was in school if I hadn't been too busy playing on MUDs
           chasing after women--things I had to learn myself after I
           graduated and had to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.
           Good idea on the MBA entrepreneurial talk, though.  That could be
           pretty useful.
           \_ But would you have really listened to the bitter old men or
              dismiss them as, well, old and bitter virgins?
              \_ Well, I've found the "bitter old virgin" stereotype to be
                 mostly untrue -- except in a few cases where it's more a
                 problem of attitude than geek culture.  And yes, I'd have
                 listened to Soda's elder statesmen for general advice about
                 "what happens next", and I'd have looked out for the
                 opportunity to network with people in industry.  Maybe you
                 should get some counseling or something, man, since you seem
                 really unhappy and have a pretty self-defeating attitude...
                 unless you're happy being a old bitter virgin.
                 unless you're happy being an old bitter virgin.
                 \_ Nah, I was an arrogant kid in college and didn't listen
                    to any "elder statesmen" who might have showed up (and
                    few did). Lots of others were the same. It makes me wonder
                    if having an alumni meeting is worth it.
                    \_ The purpose of an alumni meeting is for alumni to meet
                       college girls. Maybe you're too old already though.
                       \_ Hey nineteen, that's Aretha Franklin. She don't
                          remember the Queen of Soul.
                    \_ Assuming you're the op, so you were an arrogant in
                       college and now you're a bitter old virgin.  Perhaps
                       it's time for a change in strategy?  In the mean time,
                       please don't be a bitter dour naysayer of good ideas
                       just because you wouldn't have benefited from them back
                       when you were a young ass. -dans
                       \_ Sorry, !op. The op is obviously trolling. I am
                          expressing the fact that in college, the last
                          thing I wanted to hear is old farts talking about
                          their glorious college days. If it's going talking
                          about the stuff they are doing now, that's better.
                          \_ Then why didn't you say that an alumni meeting
                             where they talk about what they are doing now >>
                             alumni reminiscing about college instead of
                             merely expressing vague, bitter, dour, naysayer
                             misgivings?  Seriously though, thanks for the
                             clarification, I think it's important. -dans
                             \_ No agenda mentioned. Assumed it was going
                                bitter, old virgins showing complaining about
                                the motd and their ideas of improving {unix,
                                nethack,BSG} all of which include more full
                                frontal MOTAS nudity.
                    to whatever "elder statesmen" who might have showed up
                    (and none did). Lots of others were the same. It makes
                    me wonder if having an alumni meeting worth it.
                                \_ That's funny.  All the CSUA allumni I
                                \_ That's funny.  All the CSUA alumni I
                                   know personally are a lot of fun,
                                   including the above dans.  I wanted to
                                   go just because it would be fun.-jrleek
                                   \_ I like feeding the myth. And I troll too.
        \_ Speak for yourself.  I'm a happy, married, going-on-30-year-old
           engineer.  I've liked every job I've had and can't imagine doing
           anything else.  I got my first few jobs because of all of the time
           I spent fiddling on the computer instead of { studying, having a
           life, going outside, etc } while in school.
        \_ Speak for yourself, I'm a happy mid-twentiesomthing alum.  I'm
           totally into the latest of a string of hot girlfriends that began
                                                  \_ pixP
                                                     \_ #t
             Stop being anal about this, P-guy.  ___P   _/
             was first popularized with foodP, which if
             people had really only responded with #t and nothing else
             wouldn't have been a very useful thing.  It just means
             ____? these days, deal with it.
                                                     \_ I date hot girls
                                                        because I like them,
                                                        not so I can parade
                                                        them around like some
                                                        sort of trophy for you
                                                        to ogle. -pp
             \_ ___P and #t are also mismatched conventions.
                \_ ___P ==> ___predicate...ie, boolean.  You know...#t/#f.
                   \_ I'm referring to mixing LISP vs. Scheme conventions.
                   \_ Okay, this is where we tell the joke about there being
                      10 kinds of people in the world, those who can count in
                      binary and those who can't, thereby officially
                      consigning this argument to the nerd humor graveyard
                      after killing it, digging it up, and killing the zombie
                      corpse again. -dans
                      \_ Speaking of zombies, I thought Cemetary Man kind
                         of rocked.  That was a great film.  I've never
                         been as impressed with the Romero Quartet, though.
                         *shrug*
                         \_ I'll have to check that out.  Thanks. -dans
                   \_ analP
                      \_ correctP
           back in my undergrad days.  As an undergrad I spent lots of time
           geeking out, learned a lot, but still made time for a social life
           (not necessarily out of Soda, but a social life nonetheless).  The
           time spent geeking out definitely led to the jobs I've held.  I
           left my most recent gig in November, took a few months off, and am
           excited about the prospects for what's next.
        \_ what about happy old virgins?
        \_ Ah reminds me of the good old days where CS8 (Pascal) was a
           Business Admin requirement (logic, you know) and, as a reader or
           lab aide, the access to cute women was easy...
        \_ To the lonely 40 year-old virgin sodan, if you are truly
           depressed, and want to do something about your life before
           it is too late (or before your sperm all dries up), move
           out of Silicon Valley, seriously! If I am in your
           situation, I would seriously consider working in another
           country (especially Asian country such as China) for a few
           years instead of rotting in the Silicon Valley waiting for
           something to happen. You don't have to work I the tech
           field, teach English, or be a fool and appear in their TV
           shows! Apply for graduate school there. If you work there
           for a few years you'll get to know the girl better so you
           have more to base your decision on. It's an equal playing
           field. It'll be the opposite of Silicon Valley for you. You
           get to say "sorry, I am flattered, but I am not
           interested!". Or you can continue to bitch and moan about
           being a virgin on soda.
           \_ That's only if you want to date Asian women, NTTAWWT. I
              guess it might work also in Latin America, in which case
              you are an f-ing genius.
2006/2/8-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:41766 Activity:nil
2/8     Syntax aside, is there any difference in Java between the instanceof
        operator and Class.isInstance(Object) ?
        \_ Not sure if this is syntax, but instanceof doesn't work w/
           Class.forName(). You have to have a static class name for
           instanceof. [ at least this was the case when I last did
           java work ]
2006/2/8-10 [Politics/Domestic] UID:41767 Activity:nil
2/8     Ok, this is a pretty funny political cartoon:
        http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/06.02.07.WestDhimmi-X.gif
        \_ Not particularly.. Right wing kneejerks are blaming liberals
           for not standing up for free speech.  I haven't heard one
           progressive commentator say anything like this.  I've seen
           newspapers make editorial decisions not to show them, but
           right-wingers are filling in the other side of the argument
           without bothering to ask.  Fuck this.
           It _is_ heartening, however, that the right is rediscovering
           their love of free speech.
           \_ Until another Piss Christ shows up.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ
              \_ Michelle Malkin is coming to do another Berkeley show?
              \_ So when did the Christians start rioting and burning shit
                 en masse over the PC exhibit?  It was in poor taste and most
                 people just ignored it.  A few people from any crowd will go
                 ballistic over anything.  It takes a truly messed up
                 society to burn embassies over some cartoons.
                 \_ You are obvioulsy mixing the issues. Nice try, meathead.
2006/2/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41768 Activity:nil
2/8     America hearts Saudi Arabia
        http://csua.org/u/exl (Reuters)
        http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/08/cartoon.protests/index.html
        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/5/13149/60748
        "The 350 pilgrims were killed on January 12 and soon after [Hajj
        fatalities], Saudi newspapers (which are all controlled by the state)
        began running up to 4 articles per day condemning the Danish cartoons.
        The Saudi government asked for a formal apology from Denmark.  When
        that was not forthcoming, they began calling for world-wide protests."
        \_ Juan Cole's take:
           http://www.juancole.com/2006/02/fact-file-on-reaction-to-danish.html
           \_ shit, I need a blogger account to reply to his entry.
              but basically, what I want to say is, "Can't they both be true?"
              That is, Juan Cole's chronology may be entirely accurate, but
              this does not preclude Saudi Arabia from suddenly turning up
              the heat 10 notches.
              \_ I think Juan is saying even if SA turned up the heat, it
                 doesn't diminish the authenticity of the outrage.
                 \_ that is one of the things he says, but he also says,
                    "the allegation that this thing was fanned by Saudi Arabia
                    does not seem to be substantiated by the FBIS"
2006/2/8-10 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:41769 Activity:kinda low
2/8     Satellite view of your neighborhood with price estimates for ALL
        neighboring houses.  By the founder of http://expedia.com:
        (works on IE for me, doesn't work with FF + flashblock,
        also, if you click on details for a property, you can get a graph
        of its estimated value over the last 1/5/10 years - christ, what
        happened in Jan '04?)
        http://www.zillow.com
        \_ Bush said he would try to make everyone a homeowner. Greenspan
           acted by 1) lowering interest rate even further and 2) saying
           in public to the effect that anyone who paid off his/her home
           isn't investing wisely. But rather than getting everyone a home,
           those who already had a few decided to get even more, and started
           the arms race to own more homes.
        http://www.zillow.com
        \_ How are the prices estimated?  It says my home in Fremont doubled
           its value since Jan '04!  Well, I don't think so.
           \_ http://tinyurl.com/b6uf9 (latimes.com)
              "Zillow would pore over county records and other government data
              on 60 million homes nationwide. It then would use proprietary
              computer analysis to determine current values ...
              Providing a home's history, including all past sales
              transactions, tax assessments and other details ..."
              (yes, it does have current property tax and past sales dates, at
              least through '96 for my previous home)
        \_ Works fine in FF + Flashblock if you add http://www.zillow.com to the
           Flashblock whitelist.  --dbushong
           \_ still having trouble with moz/ff with whitelist.
        \_ Bush said he would try to make everyone a homeowner. Greenspan
           acted by 1) lowering interest rate even further and 2) saying
           in public to the effect that anyone who paid off his/her home
           isn't investing wisely. But rather than getting everyone a home,
           those who already had a few decided to get even more, and started
           the arms race to own more homes.
           \_ queueing lafe who may have something to say about the current
              state of economy that seems to put those who have little
              (lafe) at a much greater disadvantage for buying homes.
           \_ url on Greenspan item 2?
              I know real estate agents have lots of fun saying that:
              http://csua.com/?entry=39331
           \_ Sour grape.
           \_ A country with a planned economy won't have this problem.
2006/2/8-10 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Law/Court] UID:41770 Activity:low
2/8     I just got a traffic ticket and I intend to fight it all the way.
        Step 1-- I just activated my one time extension from Feb to April.
        To plead not guilty I need to write them a check and on top write
        NOT GUILTY, then a new court date will be assigned. Should I write
        a check now, or wait until it's closer to April? I've been told
        that the longer I wait, the less likely the cop will show up.
        Any other advice? Thanks.
        \_ Be sure to do your legal research.  I suggest starting with
           Marbury v. Madison.
        \_ There's a social engineering way to find out what days the cop
           who gave you the tickey has off.
        \_ I went to fight a ticket and I'll be damned if the cop didn't
           show up. Surprised the hell out of me, since it was LAPD and
           not some hick police force. However, I won anyway. Woo hoo!
           \_ So you thought he was gonna stay at the donut shop? Cops get
              paid extra $200-300 a day for showing up at the courthouse,
              as it is one of the biggest revenue sources at the CHP.
              \_ I thought LAPD would have bigger problems than my stupid
                 ticket, which I won anyway.
2006/2/8-10 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:41771 Activity:nil
2/8     In windows XP, programs sometimes crash; it's a fact of life.  Is there
        any way I can disable the oh-so-helpful "report this crash to MS"
        dialog box?
        \_ If you want the original [error occurred at address x, click OK
           to terminate, Cancel to debug] go to System Properties -> Advanced
           -> Error Reporting.
2006/2/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41772 Activity:very high
2/8     Does anyone else feel that these stupid demonstrations by Muslims
        (including the Paris riots) are actually working against Al Qaeda?
        I mean, it seems they are uniting the US and Europe against them.
        \_ Muslims that used to fight each other have lately been solidified
           by the cartoon and are uniting with each other in protest to
           what they perceive as the big white oppressive dickheads that
           keep interfering with the Middle East. So, you're the stupid one.
           \_ Isn't it more important to stay on good terms with Europe
              than with some extremist faction(s)?
        \_ Al Qaeda are insane.  Not in the deprecating "we just don't
           understand their 'otherness'" sort of way... literally certifiably
           insane. There isn't some master group that's planning all activities
           of all groups that claim to be Al Qaeda (another problem) for some
           grand, achieveable, sensible goal.  They're batshit.
           \_ We should give Al Quaida more credit.  They are kicking the
              shit out of us in Iraq.  They're a lot smarter than you think
              they are.
              \_ You're an idiot.  No such thing is happening in Iraq.  Stop
                 using KOS as your primary news source.  AlQ is a bunch of
                 psychotics whose primary 'tactic' is sending other people's
                 children into crowds of civilians to blow themselves up which
                 pisses off all the locals.  The local insurgents will whither
                 away and stop blowing shit up as we reduce troop levels and
                 the new central government gains its footing.  We can and
                 are reducing troop levels because AlQ has been getting
                 butchered.
                 \_ Death rate up? Check.
                    Electricity production down? Check.
                    Oil production down? Check.
                    Are we losing the war in Iraq? Yes.
                    It doesn't take Kos to see that, just a sober and
                    honest assessment of quantifiable statistics.
                    \_ Death rate up from what?  When Saddam was killing 5k
                       a month of his own people?
                       Electricity down from what?  When Saddam was cutting
                       off the south from power to punish and keep them in
                       line?
                       Oil production down?  From foreign terrorists killing
                       local oil engineers and sabotaging pipelines here and
                       there, but less often than before?
                       Losing?  Absolutely not.  Complete and utter crap.
                       Your 'sober and honest assessment' needs some serious
                       reassessing.  Adding something called "context" wouldn't
                       hurt either.  While we're at it, let's not mention the
                       nation wide votes they've had that went off with no
                       serious events and that the Sunni's didn't boycott the
                       most recent one.  Join us out here in the real world
                       where both good and bad things happen but where over
                       time the good things increase while the bad things
                       decrease.  KosWorld is a dark, ugly, depressing place
                       and not reality based.
                       \_ And Bushworld is a happy, pretty place with flowers
                          and candy.  Yeah, life may suck in Iraq, but it
                          doesn't suck because of Saddam any more!  Yay!
                          And it only took $430 billion to do it!  Yay!
                          And it only took $430 billion (so far) to do it! Yay!
                          \_ That's a weak rhetorical ploy.  If you can't
                             respond to the charge, bang your shoe on the
                             table and get sarcastic and bitter.  Maybe
                             next time you'll bring some facts along to help
                             you out.  Too bad the facts aren't on your side.
                             \_ "less than before" "complete and utter crap"
                                "saddam did it worse".  You call these strong
                                arguments?  You've offered no facts, and by
                                all accounts, you're full of shit.  Granted,
                                those accounts are hard to come by because
                                JOURNALISTS CAN'T DO THEIR FUCKING JOB BECAUSE
                                IRAQ IS A SHITHOLE BECAUSE OF OUR FAILURE.
                                \_ I gave a summary for the simple/closed
                                   minded of facts that should be known.  That
                                   you're unaware the Saddam used the
                                   electric system as a political control or
                                   killed thousands of his own peoeple every
                                   month is not entirely your fault.  As you
                                   say, the journalists aren't doing their
                                   jobs and only give us the bad side so people
                                   like you who are unable or unwilling to dig
                                   deeper to find the truth are left believing
                                   in the "quagmire" and "vietnam" DNC fax
                                   points idiocy.  Stop reading KOS.
                                   \_ #1:  wtf is KOS?  I obviously don't
                                           read it.
                                           \_ "Obviously"?  You claim not to
                                              but sure sound like a daily
                                              reader.  "obviously" is not the
                                              word I would have chosen esp.
                                              for someone on the motd with
                                              your political bias.  The motd
                                              has had numerous Kos links on
                                              it for a long time.  Unless
                                              you're brand new here, I find it
                                              extremely unlikely you're not
                                              only never read it but don't even
                                              know the name.  Whatever.  Make
                                              any BS claim you'd like in that
                                              regard.  I don't care what you
                                              read.  It won't help you since
                                              your mind is already made up.
                                              YOU SMART!  THEM DUMB!
                                      #2:  If you believe that we've won the
                                           war in Iraq, why don't you prove
                                           your confidence by moving over
                                           there and living there for a
                                           couple years.  Obviously, living
                                           in the United States, you have never
                                           ever experienced living in a
                                           war-zone, let alone a war that
                                           is illegitimate.
                                           \_ Don't misquote me.  I never said
                                              we won Iraq.  We're still there,
                                              duh.  So there's some magical
                                              difference for civilians in a
                                              "ligitimate war" vs an
                                              "illigitmate war"?  Riiiight.
                                              You're way too into your own
                                              politics to think clearly.  War
                                              is bad, k?
                                      #3:  I think you should be happy that
                                           you will never have a smart bomb
                                           drop on your wedding.  Now stop
                                           trying to make it seem like the
                                           Iraqis have it good.
                                           \_ We carpet bombed German cities
                                              and fire bombed Dresden.  I
                                              feel bad for the civilians of
                                              all wars, but as these things
                                              go, Iraq was pretty easy on
                                              the civilian population.  Are
                                              you opposed to all war for any
                                              reason?  What is your answer to
                                              Darfur?  Should we ignore it as
                                              we have?  How many civilians
                                              continue to die there and many
                                              other places throughout history
                                              while "good men stood by and
                                              did nothing"?
                                      #4:  Better yet, if one day we have
                                           higher taxes because of all the
                                           money we've spent on this war
                                           (and hence one of the reasons
                                           for our all-time high federal
                                           deficit), I want YOU to personally
                                           volunteer to pay more taxes
                                           because you are in support of our
                                           government wasting money out there.
                                           Obviously supporting the war and
                                           not wanting to back it up with
                                           your wallet is hypocritical.
                                           \_ Sure, do I get to *not* pay
                                              the share that goes to other
                                              things I disagree with?  I'll
                                              make out really well.  I'd be
                                              quite happy if I only had to
                                              pay for the things government
                                              does that I like.  Since I like
                                              so few of them my taxes would
                                              drop to near zero.  What would
                                              your tax burden look like?  You
                                              call me a hypocrite before you
                                              got an answer.  I'm sorry, but
                                              you're flat out dead wrong.  I'd
                                              be very very happy to be taxed
                                              under your "only pay for what
                                              you like" plan.  Right now our
                                              taxes are the lowest they've
                                              been in decades and are due to
                                              automagically rise again at the
                                              end of the 10 year tax cut deal.
                                              I'd be surprised if they did
                                              anything but go up given where
                                              they are now and the history of
                                              taxation in this country and
                                              others but it won't have a damned
                                              thing to do with Iraq.
        \_ Oh, I think you'll see more appeasement and self-censorship from
           Europe.  "Islam is protected by an invisible blasphemy law.  It
           is called fear."
           http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-2025314,00.html
        \_ While I agree that the Muslim riots are really hurting thier cause
           in the long run, your claiming that Muslim = Al Quaeda
           (even radical muslim = Al Quaeda) is either a major troll or
           racist bullshit, and probably both.
           \_ Where did I claim that all Muslims = Al Qaeda? However, Al Qaeda
              certainly seems to support these activities and yet it works
              against them. IOW, I don't see bin Laden issuing a video
              telling the rioters to stay calm. I'm sure he also sees,
              say, this cartoon, as blasphemy.
              \_ you are an idiot.  alqueda sees all westerners as agents
                 of satan.  it doesn't care what satan say or not say.  it
                 just want to destroy them.
        \_ If you use "Al Qaeda" in the greater sense, meaning something like
           "the body of people in the muslim world who actively or tacitly
           support cutting the heads off infidels and things like honor
           killings and sharia", I hope that the recent collective temper
           tantrum may cause at least a few people who use their brains to
           re-evaluate their position.  I also assume there are a fair
           number of educated and decent muslims who're aghast at this.  That
           said, I believe this will western societies to think much more
           critically about islam, and to tolerate less of the whingeing,
           bullying snits you tend to see when someone feels offended by the
           evil crusaders.  -John
           \_ moderate muslims are losing the war against fundamentalists
              because western imperialists keep helping the fundamentalists
              by doing stupid things like invading Iraq.
              \_ there are no "moderate muslims".  it's a myth.  who exactly
                 are these mythical "moderate muslims"?  Can you name any?
                 I believe your so-called "moderate muslims" are the normal
                 people who just want to live their lives and be left alone.
                 The average "muslim in the street" is not going to take up
                 arms or in any other meaningful way stand up to AlQ, Hamas,
                 Fatah, etc.  Quite the contrary, Hamas just got *elected*
                 if you'll recall.  You have no friends among the "moderate
                 muslims" for there are none.
                 \_ er .... the muslim world is bigger than you realize.
                 \_ the average Iraqi is pretty much a moderate, until
                    your stupid president and his lackeys decided to
                    invade the country illegally.  I came from a country
                    with 20% muslims and my work group of 7 has two muslims,
                    so give me the bullshit about no moderate muslims.
                    your stupid president and his gang decided to
                    invade the country illegally.
                    invade the country illegally.  even now, most
                    Iraqis are still moderates, including many of those
                    who just want to kick you out of Iraq.  there are
                    some bad terrorists, but most of those are
                    foreigners.  there is also a general shift
                    toward fundamentalism especially among the
                    toward fundamentalism among the
                    shiites cause they are falling under the
                    influence of the iranian mullahs again thanks
                    to your stupid war.
                    \_ The stupid war makes a pretty convenient scapegoat.
                       Anti-Americanism (and anti-Westernism, anti-secularism,
                       and anti-not-killing-your-daughter-for-being-rapederism)
                       are widespread in large portions of the muslim world
                       that haven't been invaded by the US (or anyone.)  You'll
                       note the popularity of Bin Laden #1 Fan Club t-shirts
                       on the streets of Pakistan and Jakarta and wherever
                       after 9/11--well before the stupid war.  The Iraq war,
                       while fought on dishonest premises, is just a
                       convenient excuse and outlet for thugs.  Think again,
                       young padawan, cosmic truths may be revealed.  -John
                       \_ killing your daughter for being raped is more
                          tribal than islamic.  indonesians were mostly
                          pro-US before the Iraq war, and last I check both
                          it and its neighbour malaysia have become more
                          and more democratic moving away from one party
                          rule.  many surveys have shown that there is
                          considerable goodwill towards America and what
                          it represents among the common people in
                          many muslim countries, but that it had evaporated
                          since the illegal and unjustifiable invasion of
                          iraq.
                                \_ BZZZT!!!  Sorry.  They're both one 'party'
                                   dictatorships.  Name the 'other party'
                                   that ran in the last election in either
                                   country.  Oh wait.  There wasn't an
                                   election in either place.  Why do you
                                   insist on coming here and saying such
                                   trivially destroyed lies?  Do you really
                                   think you're fooling anyone?  If you're
                                   going to troll, you need to base your
                                   garbage on half-truths at least.  Trolling
                                   from a position of truth is always the
                                   best way to get under people's skin.  The
                                   Young Troll Advisory Board has rated this
                                   troll as: WEAK!
                                   \_ Really?  How come this economist
                                      article says you are talking out
                                      of your arse?:
                                      http://tinyurl.com/cb4m6
                          rule.  many surveys have shown that there is
                          considerable goodwill towards America and what
                          it represents among the common people in
                          many muslim countries, but that it evaporated
                          after the illegal and unjustifiable invasion of
                          many muslim countries, but that it had evaporated
                          since the illegal and unjustifiable invasion of
                          iraq.
                                   \_ The Economist says you are
                                      talking out of your arse:
                                      http://tinyurl.com/cb4m6
                          \_ It's not unjustifiable. Illegal? Why don't you
                             report it to the police?
                             \_ Illegal as in without the expressed
                                authorization of the United Nations.  But
                                not even that... we didn't even have the
                                consensus agreement of the world to invade
                                Iraq.  We just unilaterally invaded the
                                country.  Complete bull-shit.  Why do you
                                think so many people are rooting for our
                                downfall?  Obviously, by abusing our superpower
                                status, we aren't earning any friends.
                             \_ don't tell me, tell your friends in Europe,
                                Canda, Asia who were predominantly against
                                Canada, Asia who were predominantly against
                                the war.
                          \_ Undoubtedly the war hasn't helped, but claiming
                             that these muslim countries were hotbed of happy
                             pro-American sentiment before it is sort of
                             silly.  -John
                             \_ Nobody is claiming that.  Also don't confuse
                                being moderate with being pro-American.
                                \_ Read pp's post.  He said "Indonesians were
                                   mostly pro-US before the Iraq war."  Cosmic
                                   truths may be revealed to you.  -John
                                   \_ "These muslim countries" >> "Indonesia".
                                      "considerable goodwill" != "hotbed of
                                      happy pro-American sentiment".
                                      Learn to read.
                                      \_ "These muslim countries" in reference
                                         to Indonesia and Malaysia.  As you
                                         say, learn to read.  Supreme cosmic
                                         truths may be revealed.  -John
                                         \_ In Indonesia, US popularity
                                            was 61% in early 2002,
                                            plummeted to 15% in 2004,
                                            rebounding to 30+ percent
                                            after Tsunami efforts.
                                         \_ oh wow, you win.
2006/2/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign] UID:41773 Activity:low
2/8     http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/08/technology/yahoo_china/index.htm
        YHOO more fucked up than GOOG
        "The choice is not whether to comply with law enforcement demands for
        information. The choice is whether to remain in the country. We believe
        that the Internet is a positive force in China."
        -Mary Osako, Yahoo! Director of Communications
        \_ What don't you agree with in that quote?  That makes sense to me...
           I'm not talking about the case as a whole, just that quote.
           --dbushong
           \_ Well, I think it would have been more honest of Ms. Osako to say:
              "By complying with law enforcement demands, we can remain in the
              country, and we believe that Yahoo!'s presence is a positive
              force in China."  What she has said reeks of dishonesty and
              marketing bullshit, IMO.
              \_ ...if you say so.
              \_ Do you expect them to say the really honest thing "By
                 complying with law enforcement demands, we can remain in
                 country X, and we believe that Yahoo!'s presence in country X
                 is going to bring in huge profits for the company.  If it just
                 so happens that Yahoo!'s presence is a positive force in
                 country X, that's good."?
                 \_ nah, i like my quote better.  it offers the "hope" of
                    being honest
                 \_ i want a plausible lie, not one that says, "you fucks,
                    why are you making me lie, i'm going to say something
                    ridiculous so you know i'm lying"
2006/2/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Industry/Startup] UID:41774 Activity:low
2/8     Shame!  I'm glad I don't work there anymore.
        http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=internetNews&storyid=2006-02-09T030219Z_01_PEK27612_RTRUKOC_0_US-CHINA-YAHOO.xml&rpc=22
        \_ Did you get rich from your stock options though?
           \_ No.  I got my paycheck and quit after a short time because
              working there sucked.  All the dirty stuff came out after I
              quit and only makes me feel that much better about having quit,
              so I don't have to convince myself everyday that my place of
              work isn't evil.
        \_ Where do you work now?
2006/2/8-10 [Uncategorized] UID:41775 Activity:nil
2/8     NSA Wiretapping Discussion in 130 Wheeler @ 7 PM tomorrow (2/9).
        \_ Is this just you, or is there some department sponsoring this?
           Sounds sort of interesting. -mrauser
           \_ I'm not sure if any dept. is sponsoring this, but I saw
              it mentioned on the BCR and BCD mailing lists.
2006/2/8-10 [Uncategorized] UID:41776 Activity:nil
2/8     If I were a pissed off Al Qaeda who wants to get back at the
        Danes, I'd terrorize them by replacing all the Twinkie
        fillings with rotten Twinkie fillings. This will cause
        so much fear that it'll halt most of the Danish economy.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:08 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>