Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:15 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/9/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10193 Activity:kinda low
9/14    What is the size of US armed forces anyway?  I thought US has
        more than 300k troops.  Aside from cost, why people say US forces
        are strech thin?
        \_ the more funding you give to the armed forces, the more it'll
           spend on war. the more it spends on war, the more money it'll
           need. 300K troop is not enough. Neither is 1 million. It's
           never enough.
           \_ It's the purpose of the armed forces to be prepared for war.
              The more they have, they better prepared they can be.  This
              is common sense to most people.  Let's just scrap the entire
              military and save a buck.  Would that make you happy, comrade?
        \_ Political gain.
        \_ around 150k forces depolyed in Iraq alone, probably more in Kuwait
           to support them, that's a pretty sizeable chunk of that 300k.  When
           you consider that you need local troops, troops at premenent bases
           like in Europe and Japan, well gee, that seems pretty stretched
           to me.  Add to that the fact that it is an all volenteer army that
           has been seeing recruitment and reenlistment rates plumet... see
           the problem yet?
           \_ There are more than 300k troops.  That's a ridiculously small
              number so the rest of what you're saying is silly.  Also, all
              4 branches easily met and exceeded quota since 9/11.
           \_ Where do you get your figures for recruitment rates?  My
              understanding is the army had no problems filling their quotas
              after 9/11 (and the very successful baghdad blitz helped).
              The army's main problem is money, not men.
                \_ I thought they had cash a-plenty, but that a lot of it
                   was wasted on pork-barrel projects, like the V-22 and
                   strategically pointless bases, rather than on boring things
                   like training and spare parts.  -John
                   \_ Different budgets.  Lack of spare parts in the US Army
                      means they can't strip and replace every part on every
                      M1-A2 active in the field while on the front at the same
                      time.  You'll note the lack of any reports of soldiers
                      unable to complete missions due to lack of spares.
           \_ can they mobilize all the national guards for Iraq,
              leaving just skeleton personel for bases in USA, and
              throw everyone at Iraq so the situation there could get
              stablized more quickly?
                \_ They've done that to some degree.  All our gate guards
                   are National Guardspeople at Kirtland AFB, NM.  --PeterM
                \_ more people won't help in Iraq.  They're doing ok in most
                   of the country.  The reports of trouble from Iraq are *all*
                   from a small section of the country that was always hard
                   core pro-saddam.  Go check a map every time they report an
                   event.  It's always something just north or north west of
                   baghdad. That's prime we-love-the-president-day real estate.
                   \_ yea, the rest are all peace loving shiite mullahs, just
                      like their brothers in Iran.
        \_ ~ 2 million for all branches.
2003/9/15 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/HW/Memory] UID:10194 Activity:nil 53%like:10203
9/14    Digital camera users: how many memory cards do you have?  What is
        their capacity?  Do you have any device besides a laptop that you
        use to transfer memory card data?
        \- maybe 5 cf/microdisk. 128 to 1gb. usb1 digital wallet. why? --psb
        \_ my college have this.  I think it's a godsend:
           Only thing i bitch about this is that it doesn't use
           standard AA battery.
2003/9/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:10195 Activity:high
9/14    Regarding to thread regards to VW in China and environment.
        It is unfair to blame China or other developing nation for
        pollutions, as the reason why world is in such mess is because
        Britian and US of A has been doing more than their share of
        polluting for the past 150 years.  Ultimately, issue of pollution
        is closed related to energy use per capita, but developed nation
        is not going to give in upon this fundamental fact, as
        they are too happy with the lavashing life style at the expense
        of global environment.  Like farm subsidies, environment issue
        is another instrument to achieve wealthy nation's economic
        \_ Your analysis is flawed. You need to read up on how technology
           and development affect pollution levels. The relationship you
           draw between per-capita use and pollution is not well correlated.
        \_ It's not 'blame'.  There's an economic theory called 'the advantage
           of backwardness'--essentially, developing economies are able to
           leapfrog entire developmental steps, thereby avoiding being
           saddled with 'legacy' sectors and infrastructure (like steel and
           coal in the US).  A lot of the beef people have with China
           (and you can put a lot of this blame at the door of western
           manufacturers who don't supply Chinese consumers with goods meeting
           similar environmental standards) is that it's reaping the fruits
           of rapid development, without taking environmental responsibility
           accordingly.  And remember, energy use does not necessarily equal
           pollution (although very often this is sadly the case.)  -John
           \_ John, just to give you an example of CFCs, as you know, CFC
                is the stuff that kills ozone layer.  USA was pressing
                China to use CFC replacement and establish CFC recycle
                program on all its refrigerator and air conditioning.
                Could China leapfrog the CFC and uses CFC replacement
                directly?  in principle, yes.  But CFC cost more to
                and which nation USA or China,  contributed more to the
                destruction of ozone layer?
                If USA really care about environment, or actually
                manufacture.  Who is going to be asked to bear the
                extra cost?  China does.  who is the major manufacture
                of CFC replacement and its technology?  United States.
                Granted, if USA really care about environment, or actually
                show any sign of remorse on how much it has contributed to
                the destruction of ozone, you would think that USA and
                expand its market to China.   Another example.  You would
                think China can leapfrog the coal burning stage of
                industrial revolution.  Guess what, coal is the only form
                of fossil fuel which China has plenty of (and plenty is in
                a relative term).   China's coal, by comparison, is relatively
                "dirty" because it has high sulfur content, but what are
                the alternatives?  import natural gas from Canada, and
                petro from companies which US dominates?   You may have
                the best intentions, but in the end, it's always the lobbiest
                of the industry prevail.        --OP
           \_ John, as you can well imagine, the company that sells Chinese
              equipments see it as an ideal dumping ground for products that
              no longer satisfy stringent environmental regulations of the
              West.  I don't think there are a lot of Chinese who would like
              to pollute their own environment.  However, most officials in
              China in a position to decide what to purchase, whether in the
              public or private sectors, do not have much clue about what is
              ecological sound and what is not.  They are pressed between the
              stick of stern and often politically motivated criticism (there
              people who make a living by criticizing) and carrots (often
              bribes) waved by profit driven greedy companies.  Guess
              which side appeals to them more?  And the same thing happens to
              other developping countries as well.
                other developed nation would provide those CFC replacement
                at the regular CFC cost.  But no.  The opposite is happening.
                The administration at the time, pressued by the lobbiest and
                compaign contributor, was leveraging this CFC issue trying to
                expand its market to China.   In the end, it's all about
                who is making that extra buck.   Another example is the
                power-saving light bulb.  Those things are pretty popular
                in USA because it cuts power consumption  thus, energy use.
                But the manufacturing of this light bulb involves mercury and
                other exotic and toxic metals.  When you flick the light
                \_ If China cared about the environment, they'd pay the same
                   non-CFC costs as everyone else.  They live under the same
                   ozone layer and should care as much.  Or more than us if
                   you buy the claim below that having more people means they
                   care more about the environment.
                   \_ Everyone cares about the environment, as long as it's
                      not hitting their wallet.
        \_ I think it's perfectly fine to attempt to get china to
           conform to sane environmental policy, just like I think
           the bush administratin should regnize that we all live
           on the same planet and that paving it with reckless abandon
           with only regard to how it increases shareholder value is
           not the wisest way to govern.
           \_ China in some pervert way more concerned about environment
              simply because they got too many people and they would face
              the consequences of it a lot more quickly.
              \_ Wow, what an amazing bit of propoganda.  This is a flat-out
                 lie.  The Chinese government's actions speak infinitely louder
                 than their words on the environment issue.  The truth is they
                 don't give a shit.  Chinese environmental policy doesn't
                 exist.  The US has very strong laws compared to China and most
                 of the rest of the world.  Some parts of western Europe have
                 stronger laws but not across the board and a little money to
                 grease the wheels will get you over any little environmental
                 little bumps in the road there.  Back to China: the leaders
                 don't give a shit about the people.  If they lost a few
                 hundred million they could temporarily end the very unpopular
                 one child policy and improve the standards of living for the
                 \_ now, that is a lie.  just look at USA's carbon dioxide
                    emission.  by all account, USA is the worse pollutors
                    on face of the earth, and that is the fact.  You can
                    have all the environment law you want, it still doesn't
                    change the fact that USA is the worse pollutor on the
                    \_ I never said otherwise.  I said we have some of the
                       toughest laws and we enforce them.  No lie.  If you'd
                       like to stop consuming and can convince 270+ million
                       others to do the same then we'll be the least poluting
                       country on the planet.  You can start by turning off
                       your incredibly toxic computer and paying to have it
                       disposed of safely which will cost more than the market
                       value of the computer today.
                       \_ Nah, I think I will start by defacing a few SUVs.
           \_ Frankly, not enough of the world is paved.
2003/9/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:10196 Activity:nil
9/14    Has anyone been to the Everest area [Khumbu]. I am looking for some
        route planning info. ok tnx. --psb
        \_ Planning an expedition, Partha, or just doing research?
           \- well a month from today i should be at the fork in the
              road trying to decide whether to go north to pherichye and
              the khumbu glaicer or east toward ama dablam/imja tse
              via dingboche. well, that's plan A, anyway ... barring marixist
              insurgency, passport problems, pulmonary edema etc --psb
              \_ nice.  hope it works out for you-- post pix! --erikred
        \_ do you have PSB speakers psb? :)
           \- I have 7 of them. --psb
2003/9/15 [Politics] UID:10197 Activity:nil
9/14    Breaking news: Federals appeals court delays recall.  This is real
        news.  Which fat sysadmin just censored this?  Come on, get a life.
        Here's the AP story:
2003/9/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:10198 Activity:nil
9/14    is there a used/2nd hand bookstore in the bay are that buys
        back technical/computer/sysadmin/oreilly books?
        \_ bet you can unload them on craigslist pretty easily.  And cut out
           the middle man...
        \_ does anybody still use /csua/pub/books ?
2003/9/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:10199 Activity:low
9/14    Federal appeals court delays recall!
        All I can say is: HAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA!
        \_ Cool, all I can say is, 6 more months of incompetent non-leadership
           from the lame duck governor who is going to continue his standard
           pandering and mass sell out of the general population in an effort
           to buy more illegal alien votes.  Whoop-di-doo.  So glad to live
           in CA.  If you weren't a student, you'd care more.
           \_ "Illegal alien votes"? Troll.
              \_ Drivers license for illegals + motor voter law =
                 Illegal alien votes
                 \_ Bzzt.  You really do suck up everything you hear on the
                    radio, doncha?
                    \_ Nice comeback.  Wouldn't want to actually address the
                       \_ If it were an issue.  Verification of voter
                          registration is an entirely separate process.
                          You brought up the point.  The burden of proof
                          is on you.
                       \_ Wow, pot kettle black eh? Troll.
                          \_ No pots and kettles.  He refused to address the
                             issue.  Getting nailed on it doesn't make the
                             hammer into a troll.
                             \_ You put forward a baseless claim. As I said,
                                the burden of proof is on you.
                                \_ It isn't baseless.  Anyone who can get a
                                   driver's license which will soon be every
                                   illegal gets paperwork for voting.  There's
                                   no other checking, genius.  Illegals driving
                                   \_ Prove this.  This is what your entire rant
                                      is based on.
                                   == illegals voting.  2+2 still = 4 outside
                                   your little ivory towers.
                                   \_ Just because someone can break the law
                                      does not mean that they will. Not
                                      everyone has the criminal/Republican
                                      mentality. Illegals tend to be more
                                      afraid of law enforcement that most,
                                      so I bet very very few will engage
                                      in illegal voting. I think you are worried
                                      about something that will not happen,
                                      but let's keep an eye on it and see.
                                      If it becomes a problem, then we can
                                      do something about it.
              \_ illegal alien votes => those with relatives/sympathy for
                 illegal aliens => the Hispanic vote
                 \_ If you really believe this, then explain why the hispanic
                    vote is so influential, yet prop 184 passed.
                    \_ Surely you mean Prop 187, right?
                    \_ there are more white people
                       "The Times's exit poll that year found that 23 percent
                       of Latino voters supported Proposition 187 and
                       77 percent opposed it."
           \_ Do you really think the recall would have passed?
              \_ Absolutely.  Hard core support to recall, soft support to
                 not recall.  It's a done deal if the election is in Oct.
           \_ I'm not a student.  Ah-nold would have just made things worse:

              O'REILLY: Yes, I know, but do you have any ideas that you can
              offer the other governors or the president of the United States?
              All of them seem to be confused about the issue. Do you have
              any ideas on how you can control the borders?

              SCHWARZENEGGER: I think we just have to-I think we just have to
              bring leadership there and really make sure that the-explain
              the case, that how bad it is for the state and how bad it is
              for the country to do that-We have to work on those kind of
              issues together, the border states.
              \_ It's not his fault, his scriptwriter didn't anticipate the
              \_ You're avoiding the issue.  The issue is Davis is an
                 incompetent and criminal boob.  Thus he needs to go.  Arnold
                 giving a politician's answer to a question doesn't make me
                 want that Davis scumbag in office any more.  It has nothing
                 to do with it.
                 \_ What makes him criminal?
                    \_ Selling his signature for campaign cash quid pro quo?
                       Isn't that enough?  Have you been out of CA for the last
                       few years?
        \_ It's the 9th circuit.  They might as well not exist.  Off to the
           supreme court we go.  And since when does a federal court get
           involved in a state election.
           \_ Are memories that short?
           \_ *cough*Florida*cough*
           \_ Is your chad hanging?
              \_ That was an election for a FEDERAL office.  You know, President
                 of the United States?
                 \_ No facts!  Do not bring facts into this!  Everyone knows
                    the SC conspired with the right wing to steal the election!
                    Even though by every measure and later re-re-re-re-count
                    Bush still won!  No facts!
           \_ Wow, I have to call troll. Your "not exist" comment is
              laughable in the face of the actual 9th circuit statistics.
              \_ You mean the 70-80% overturn rate?
                 \_ Thanks for deleting my question rather than answering it.
                    Got any evidence to back up this statement?
                    \_ I'm "involved" in the legal profession but not a lawyer.
                       The 9th Circuit is known for being a bunch of fuck nuts
                       within the profession and lawyers don't take an adverse
                       9th Circuit ruling seriously.  It just means both sides
                       make more legal fees for the appeal.
              \_ The 9th are all liberal nuts.
                 \_ That may be, but they're OUR liberal nuts!
                 \_ suck my liberal nuts
        \_ What was Federal statute / Consitutional issue in question?
           Crickey Davis is so incompetent he can't even modernize
           Californias voting systems nearly three years after
           Florida - what a disgrace.
           \_ The modernization of voting machines is left up to the individual
              counties.  It really wasn't Davis' responsibility.
           \_ The state was supposed to be ready in March 2004, in time for
              the next planned vote. The recall advanced that schedule by six
              months. They are understandably behind. The constitutional issue
              is "one person, one vote."
              \_ One citizen, one vote, thanks.  We're not *yet* making it so
                 all the illegals can easily vote.  Yet.
                 \_ Wow, you've really convinced yourself that immigration
                    does you serious harm, haven't you? I feel sad for you.
                    \_ As always, brown people provide a convenient punching
                       bag, especially during electoral cycles.  This is a
                       fundamental feature of our politics.
                    \_ 1) I am an immigrant.  A *legal* one.  2) Legal
                       immigration is bad.  3) Illegal immigration is bad.
                       4) opening your borders so you can get near slave wage
                       labor is unethical, sickening, and you should go shoot
                       yourself for thinking it's ok to bring in slaves to do
                       your dirty work, asshole.
                 \_ Oh, we're going to get snippy, about are we? Remove also
                    all those convicted of a felon, officially mentally
                    incapable, and unregistered voters. Gods, it's folks
                    that you that make lawyers drool.
                    \_ Nothing wrong with preventing felons, the mentally
                       incapable and unregistered voters from voting.
2003/9/15-16 [Recreation/Activities] UID:10200 Activity:nil
9/15    I moved to LA and bought a really bug house with a big backyard.
        I'm thinking about putting a 2 PAR 1 hole golf course (one that
        requires a pitching wedge to get to the green) and I'm wondering
        what kind of grass I should get, and if there is a special lawn
        mower that would mow the green really close to the ground? ok thx
        \_ how about a St Andrew's style course.
        \_ first, get rid of the bugs
        \_ The grass you need is bermuda for the green in LA. (Colder
           places use different varieties like bentgrass.) You really should
           buy a greens mower, but a good reel mower with lots of blades will
           work, too. I don't have a golf course, but my backyard has a
           "golf course appearance" and this is what I did. I bought my
           sod at . --dim
        \_ Humbolt county...
        \_ there's no such thing as a 2 par golf hole
           \_ that's not what butch said about you last night...
           \_ Pitch and putt.
2003/9/15-16 [Recreation/Media] UID:10201 Activity:nil
9/15    I did not know Johnny Cash covered a Nine Inch Nails song.
        \_ Johnny Cash did a lot of great stuff.
        \_ KROQ played it the day he died.
           \_ the NIN version and Johnny cash version? Both?  Which one?
               \_ Johnny Cash version. I would've thought that obvious.
        \_ more interestingly, did you know he wrote 'blue suede shoes'?
           \_ Carl Perkins wrote that song.
        \_ did Van Halen write Pretty Woman?
2003/9/15-16 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:10202 Activity:nil
9/15    Got a traffic ticket in Palo Alto.  Anyone know of any
        fun/easy/cheap/quick traffic schools that I can go to?
        Palo Alto doesn't allow online traffic schools.
        \_ The DMV cracked down on 'easy' and 'quick' years ago.  You'll get
           the state mandated minimum $X hours in every class and they all
           'teach' the exact same minimal standards in that time frame.  They
           all take attendance, etc.  Suck it up, son.  Sorry.
2003/9/15-16 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:10203 Activity:moderate 53%like:10194
9/15    To those with digital cameras: How many memory cards do you have?
        what capacity?  Do you have a device to download your pictures
        to?  A portable one aside from a laptop?
        \_ can't believe my post on got censored
           \_ not everything that disappears is censorship.  i'll bet you
              posted while some other person was editing at the same time
              and they simply overwrote your version without a thought.
              stop playing the victim.  no one cares.
        \_ 1 card, 128 MB.  No separate device.
        \_ A single 128MB CF.  I usually connect the camera by USB, although a
           couple of times I've put the CF card into a printer and printed
        \_ 1 128mb card and a 32 mb card that came with the camera.  I bought
           a 10 dollar card reader and it makes dling pictures a lot easier.
           Plus now I can use the card as a large floppy drive if I need to.
        \_ 1 card, 1GB. No separate device. Only issue is my battery doesn't
           last long enough to occupy even half the card at max res / no
           compression. But 1GB suits vacations quite nicely without access to
           computer for downloading.
        \_ 32meg included, purchased 128meg after.  I just use the usb cable
           and software included and dl straight to a desktop PC.
        \_ 2, 32 MB, 1GB.  I put the CF card in my PC, or print straight
           to a Canon CP100 dye-sub 4X6 printer. -ax
           \_ aren't dye-sub's expensive?  how much was it?
                \_ The printer was $199, then $.50 per 4X6 print.
        \_ 1 128 MB (not using 8MB came with camera).Only using laptop.
           2 batteries
        \_ 3 cards, all smartmedia, 8M, 64M, 128M.  Unfortunately, smartmedia
           doesn't come larger than 128M, seemingly.  I use a card reader
           as well as a digicam, but that's mostly for data transfer. --PeterM
        \_ 2 cards - 256M, 32M (came with).  pcmcia CF adapter, great for
           transferring things around too...  Playing with pictures (time
           exposures/etc) tends to fill it up quickly though, cycled through
           the 256M twice on a 10-day trip of late.
           transferring things around too...
        \_ Camera came with 8 (enough for 7 photos!), bought 128MB, have never
        \_ 1 card, 1GB. No separate device. Too bad my camera battery doesn't
           last long enough to occupy half that card at full resolution / no
           compression (4 Megapixel)
           filled in a single vacation.  (Low-res cam, though)
2003/9/15-16 [Computer/HW/Display] UID:10204 Activity:moderate
9/14    What's the best graphics card in terms of bang/buck?
        \_ Currently, anything ATI.
        \_ Given the latest Half-Life 2 benchmarks, the Radeon 9600 Pro
           \_ Yes, but would you want to play HL2 on it?  And is HL2 the
              only game you'll be playing?  And, oh yeah, HL2 isn't out now
              anyway, so today's bang/buck is meaningless in terms of vapor
              product.  And oh yeah, the HL2 benchmarks were preliminary, not
              run multiple times, and in a very Valve controlled setting. I'm
              not an Nvidia or ATI fanboy.  I'm actually hoping a third
              company develops a great new chip so there'll be even more
              \_ yes. no. uh huh.
              \_ Competition? As in Bitboys? *snigger*
                 \_ No.  They're out years ago.  There are others out there
                    trying their hand at enthusiast graphics cards.  Remember
                    it wasn't that long ago 3dfx ruled this niche and Nvidia
                    didn't even exist while ATI was making clunkers for Dell.
              \_ I have a 9800 on my desk at work.  If the 9600 Pro is even
                 close for $100 it is absolutely amazing. --emarkp
        \_ It really depends on what you want. If you want to be able to
           run next-generation games (Half Life 2 or the upcoming id title)
           then you need to get a DX9 optimized
           card, which is pretty much the high-end NVIDIA (5900) or ATI (9800)
           cards. It doesn't make a great deal of difference between the two,
           honestly, despite much publicity (both ways) to the contrary.
           But you can buy a lot cheaper card (say, the low-end
           GeForce FX 5200) and get some pretty good performance for under
           \_ 1) There is a difference in DX9. Trust me, in every new game
              benchmark the 9800 beats the 5900. Nvidia typically releases new
              drivers to help, but it's proven that this involves degrading
              image quality.
              \_ ATI and NVIDIA took very different tacks toward building
                 their internals. ATI built an architecture that's a lot
                 easier to compile to, and hence their "initial" performance
                 numbers turned out to be pretty good. NVIDIA is still
                 learning how to compile to their architecture. It's definitely
                 a tough one to compile to (example: performance, to first
                 order, is directly proportional to the number of registers
                 you use). So, though they have had some problems getting
                 good results and some of their optimizations have reduced
                 performance, I think it's unfair to say it's "proven"; I
                 think the next generation of drivers (v50) have a better
                 back-end compiler that will be a better match for the
                 hardware without sacrificing quality.
                 \_ I don't have time to go into all the issues here but it's
                    known that Nvidia use app-detection optimizations that
                    alter image quality, for example UT2K3 turning off aniso
                    filtering. As for shaders, it's more than having too few
                    registers, it's processing power too. Here is a recent
                    article demonstrating image quality differences with the
                    det50 driver:
                    Note also that aquamark3 is only about 30% DX9. Ok, is
                    this all terribly important? No, but the end situation is
                    that the ATI cards are the better value, and don't have
                    questionable app-specific "optimizations" like disabling
                    features behind your back.
              2) The FX 5200 is not "pretty good performance".
              image quality. 2) The FX 5200 is not "pretty good performance".
              It is dog slow by today's standards, i.e. if you actually care
              about 3D performance at all you need 9600/5600 level minimum.
        \_ I haven't really been following the news, but my impression is that:
           .  ATI has a demonstrable lead in fast anti-aliasing
           .  Nvidia got lazy, they focused on pushing frame rate
           .  Nvidia's recent cards have a huge noisy fan
              \_ understatement here. more like vacuum cleaner.
              \_ Inaccurate generalization.  There are a few models that are
                 quiet.  I have a Microstar 5600 card that is VERY quiet.
                 \_ So if I go out and buy a GeForce FX, do I have to worry
                    about how loud the fan / how big the heat sink is?
                    \_ This was mainly a 5800 Ultra issue.
           .  Nvidia can be faster in non-anti-aliased modes by relying on
              about 3D performance at all you need 9600/5600 level minimum.
              pushing clock frequency and using bigger fan
2003/9/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:10205 Activity:nil
9/14    Cell Phones maybe bad for your health:
        \_ Probably.  I try to limit my usage because it seems like a bad idea
           to irradiate my brain in general.
2003/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:29538 Activity:high
9/14    Myth of Allende obscures reality
        \_ Pinochet murdered thousands of people.  Get a life.
           \_ And how many did Communists kill? over a hundred
              million?  Were Chile like Cuba today you would be
              happy because a few thousand Communists lives
              \_ I was in Chile in 1993-1994.  Most of the people there *loved*
                 Pinochet.  And Chile has had one of the most stable (if not
                 *the* most) economies in South America for the last few
                 decades.  --emarkp
2003/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:29539 Activity:high
9/14    The tread regard to Iran has been censored again. Haha, I think
        I know why that particular thread is being targeted.  It exposes
        the failure of current administration's foreign policy.  And the
        Motd Censor think by deleting it, people wouldn't know about it.
        \_ LOL why censor why you Carter and Clinton to fall back on.
        \_ LOL why censor when one has Carter and Clinton to fall back on.
2019/08/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:15 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>