Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:September:02 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39434 Activity:nil
9/1     Germany on Katrina:
        http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372425,00.html
        \_ America on Katrina:
        http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/09/lead-religious-right-group-promotes.html
        \_ I find this article to be just as tasteless as what it's
           complaining about.
               "It's not the American people's fault that the storm hit
               and they couldn't have stopped it. The Germans, on the
               other hand, could have done a lot to prevent World War
               II. And yet, care packages still rained down from US
               troops. Trittin's know-it-all stance is therefore not
               only tasteless, it is also historically blind."
2005/9/2 [Uncategorized] UID:39435 Activity:nil
9/1     what is good command line Yahoo IM client?
2005/9/2 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:39436 Activity:nil
9/1     In mysql, can I share data/* (database directories) from one machine
        to another? Say I'm using a Linux and a Mac, can I just copy those
        files and assume they'll work? It seems to work but I'm not sure
        if I'll get into trouble later. Thanks!
        \_ dump the tables and scheme to a file (there are commands
           for this), move file to new machine, import the data
2005/9/2 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:39437 Activity:nil
9/1     Pretty interesting interview of a hedge fund manager called
        Peter Thiel on http://cbsmarketwatch.com.  He thinks the housing
        bubble will end not when people stop buying but when the
        lenders stop lending.  And lenders will stop lending when
        the yield curve inverts, which is when short term interest
        rate goes above long term interest rate.  He also thinks
        oil will stay around this level but oil equity still has
        a little room to grow since they are still based on the
        assumption that long term oil price will be around $40 per
        barrel.  He also likes Canadian energy companies that own
        tar sands fields which become viable now (eg. nexen (nxy)).
        He thinks US will go into a Japan-like long term deflation.
        By end of year, his current guess would be to short US
        equities and short US dollars.
2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39438 Activity:low
9/1     Guess why the FEMA reaction is a mess?
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.fema.brown/index.html
        \_ Getting out of a city costs money.  Most of the people who stayed
           are either poor and can't afford to get out of the city or were
           unable to leave on short notice.  If a government evacuates a city
           they need to fund the evacuation and find people shelter.  This
           reads like someone blaming to poor for , well, being poor.
           \_ http://csua.org/u/d8d [nyt]
              "City officials said they provided free transportation from
              pick-up points publicized on television, radio and by people
              shouting through megaphones on the streets. In addition to the
              Superdome, officials opened schools and the convention center
              as shelters."
              \_ "Shelters" that had no food, water, working sanitation...
                 This was and is FUCKED.
              \_ Six rapes and three murders a night IN THE SHELTER.
                 \- Blob Dylan: Gimme Shelter
                 \_ Kinda makes you wonder how many murders & rapes a night
                    in NO back when it wasn't submerged.
                    \_ New Orleans had the highest murder rate last year.
2005/9/2-3 [Health/Men, Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39439 Activity:kinda low
9/2     "Chaos and gunfire hampered efforts to evacuate the Superdome,
        and, Superintendent P. Edward Compass III of the New Orleans
        Police Department said, armed thugs have taken control of the
        secondary makeshift shelter at the convention center.
        Superintendent Compass said that the thugs repelled eight squads
        of 11 officers each he had sent to secure the place and that
        rapes and assaults were occurring unimpeded in the neighboring
        streets as criminals "preyed upon" passers-by, including
        stranded tourists."
                 \_ i.e. white people
        link:tinyurl.com/92fwx
        Huh .. what's going on?
        \_ If there was ever proof that men descended from apes...
        \_ Dumb question: Why don't the cops/natl guard/etc. just shoot
           anyone who's not a cop/natl guard/etc. and armed on sight?
           Ordinarily I wouldn't advocate that, but since every extra day
           that people can't get rescued means more people dying, getting
           killed & raped it seems like the quickest solution.
           \- because they quickly duck underwater and escape to their secret
              underwater base.
              undersea base.
           \_ So you're advocating the murder of citizens who are legitimately
              brandishing firearms in an attempt to protect themselves from
              the armed thugs?  Troll harder.
              \_ Now, were you a gun control advocate before this?
           \_ Certainly not the only reason, but one reason is this: people
              shoot back.  How many dead cops would you like to add to the
              body count and how is a war on the citizens of NO going to help?
              There are so many other reasons why this is bad I'm at a loss
              to begin ennumerating them.  You're just trolling, right?
                \_ Okay, let's just let everyone die then.
                  \_ Your response is non-responsive.  Now I know you're
                      trolling.  Thanks for joining us today.
           \_ Same reason why you avoid shooting into any possible area,
              civilians. Take the gun safety class. If you are not sure of
              your target, don't shoot. Too many video games for you...
              \_ Uh, you see a mob of armed thugs ... You shoot them
                 \_ Is he a thug or a man protecing his family? Did he not
                    hear you? Does he not recognize your authority? Is there
                    a child standing behind the wall behind the thug? Where
                    will your stray shots go? Is my objective to kill or
                    disarm? If disarm, why am I shooting from a distance?
                    \_ The media are talking about roving bands of armed men.
                       Somehow cops all over the country, not to mention all
                       over the world are capable of making this distinction
                       on a daily basis yet in NO right now, where it should
                       be REALLY obvious this suddenly becomes 10X harder?
                       \_ Nothing says photo op better than cops/troops in
                          helicopters shooting into the city. And being a cop
                          is different from being a soldier. Unless there are
                          lives in immediate danger, cops make sure the shots
                          they take are 'safe' shots.
2005/9/2 [Recreation/Dating, Computer/Companies/Ebay] UID:39440 Activity:high
9/2     I'm selling something on ebay, and I just got this as a question
        from a possible buyer: "dear seller i viewed ur item at ebay and
        i developed and i want to know may be this item is in good
        condition and i want tell that if you ready please mail me ASAP"
        Anyone have a guess at a translation?
        \_ How is this?
           "[D]ear seller,
            [I] viewed [your] item [on] ebay and [I] developed [an interest
            in it] ... [I] want to know ... [if] this item is in good
            condition ...
            [I] want to tell you that [I will buy it from you] if
            you [are] ready [to sell it to me directly].
            [P]lease [e]mail me ASAP."
            \_ finally, someone who understands language
            \_ [PS: I am a hot Vietnamese chick who will show up in person
                to buy your item. I will wear my slutty outfit so you will
                sell it to me cheap, but then my boyfriend will show up so
                you will become sexually frustrated. We will laugh at you
                afterwards.]
        \_ I got this reply from my car ad on craigslist.  "Hi my name is
           Katrina and Im interested in ur integra. I was wondering where
           are u located. Im located in San Jose California. Let me noe
           wassup. Thanks =)".  Turns out Katrina is this uber-hot Vietnamese
           chick.  Pity she came to look at the car with her dad.
           \_ You won't date a chick who has a father?  What?
              \_ I wasn't about to date her.  She doesn't write well, and I
                 do have standards.  However, I would have cut her a deal on
                 the car in exchange for services rendered.
                 \_ Wow, you're vile.
                 \_ Just say you can't bring yourself to date a "Katrina"
                    right now.
                 \_ So you only date English majors who write perfectly in
                    emails to ebay sellers?  And hookers who would put out
                    for a used car discount.  Yes, you have standards.  Not
                    very good standards, but standards.
                    \_ What do you have against a consensual business
                       transaction between 2 adults?
                       \_ Who said I did?
                       \_ that particular service can't form the basis
                          of a business transaction in 49 states.
                    \_ You really need to work on your reading comprehension.
                       \_ Whatever.  My post is on target.  If you'd like to
                          make a specific correction, please do.
                          \_ craigslist != ebay.  Like I said, your reading
                             comprehension needs work.
                             \_ and that somehow makes what I said off base?
                                maybe you have a better point to make and
                                would like to try again?  or better yet, just
                                give your car to some hooker.  whatever.
2005/9/2-5 [Finance/Investment] UID:39441 Activity:nil
9/2     I don't like where the market is going, and want to do
        some shorting, but all the ETFs are shorted to death
        by the hedge funds and I can't find any shares.  Anyone
        knows any good individual stocks as short candidates,
        or any ETF where you can still find shares to borrow?
        \_ Have you considered puts?
           \_ I haven't tried options before.  Can you suggest
                something specific?
                \_ Not really as I am new to buying puts myself. I just
                   opened a minor put on a major homebuilder.
2005/9/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Computer/Companies/Yahoo] UID:39443 Activity:nil
9/2     fallout on yahoo from language of photo captions:
        http://news.yahoo.com/page/photostatement
        (apologize if a repost)  - rory
                \_ what did i do? here go read the comments of the
                   guy who took the photo
        http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=17204#26
        search for "Jeasus" - danh
        \_ Censoring history to appease the politically correct.  Yeah, that's
           progress.
           \_ And a big thanks goes to danh for doing his part to kick
              AFP off yahoo.  We have too much information anyway.
                \_ what did i do? here go read the comments of the
                   guy who took the photo
        http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=17204#26
        search for "Jeasus" - danh
                   \_ "white people find things:  http://redirx.com/?3h1a
                      black people loot:  http://redirx.com/?3h1f - danh"
                      Now, do you really believe there was racism involved
                      in the captions?
                      \_ I think it is quite likely that the photographer
                         would have captioned it differently if he were
                         shooting black people, yes.  -tom
                         \_ Instead of guessing, why not read the captioner's
                            comment?
                            \_ I did.  -tom
                               \_ Then perhaps you'd like to explain why (after
                                  reading it) you've completely ignored it?
                                  \_ what is the guy gonna say?  "I have an
                                     ingrained fear of black people, and I
                                     don't want to portray white people in
                                     a negative light"?  Look, I don't think
                                     he's Jesse Helms or anything like that,
                                     but this is a pretty clear example of
                                     how deeply ingrained racial stereotypes
                                     are in our society.  -tom
                                     \_ Yeah, they're so ingrained tom
                                        sees them where they don't even
                                        exist. -jrleek
                         \_ When has tom ever allowed fact to sway his opinion?
                            Looks like my assessment was correct:  the white
                            people in the picture found stuff floating near a
                            store.  Tom you are such an idiot.
                \_ you think maybe i've changed my mind and I am posting
                   the comments of the original photographer? - danh
                   \_ Right.  And your original post and the many other by
                      like-minded people is what got AFP to withdraw their
                      photos.  I'm glad that you've changed your mind now,
                      but didn't you do your part in getting AFP to leave?
                \_ it looks like the guy was stressed out... i dunno
                   if he would have written something different if it
                   were a bunch of black people.  hard to say.  i also
                   really hate new orleans.  - danh
2005/9/2-3 [Uncategorized] UID:39444 Activity:nil
9/2     "I keep hearing that it's coming. This is coming. That is coming. My
        answer to that is B.S. Where is the beef?" -Mayor Ray Nagin
        \_ The only answer I can come up with is "they don't care".  Either
           that or they just squandered our resources to the point that even
           if they did, they couldn't do anything about it.
2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic] UID:39445 Activity:nil
9/2     GTA: New Orleans
        \_ I don't get the rape charges.  "Hey it's dark, no power,
           no lights, dead bodies everywhere, no food, let's go
           rape grandma!" (I don't believe it)
           \_ Do you think food and other resources are evenly distributed
              in the convention center?
              Have you attended an American high school with a diverse
              ethnic demographic?
           \_ Try "I'm bored and got a hard on, what's available?"
              \_ "...and who's going to stop me?"
           \_ Grandma? I heard they were doing the kids.
                \_ They draw the line at necrophilia
2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39446 Activity:nil
9/2     The GOP is on the case to save America and New Orleans - the solutiom?
        Another tax cut!
        http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_08_28.php#006382
        \_ We're going to have daily 4 hour meetings until we figure out why
           morale and productivity are so low!
2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:39447 Activity:low
9/2     I guess America let its national geographic subscription lapse
        this is from last year
        http://205.188.130.53/ngm/0410/feature5 - danh
        \_ Yeah, but New Orleans is full of poor black people.  Who gives a
           fuck about them?
           \_ Plus all of the evil-doers in NO. After years and years of
              eating shrimp, they get their just desserts! God hates
              crustatean eaters!
              \_ http://www.godhatesfigs.com
              \_ That's "Freedom Shrimp" to you.
        \_ Nor Scientific American from 4 years ago: http://csua.org/u/d8l
2005/9/2-3 [Computer/Rants, Computer/SW/Security] UID:39448 Activity:low 52%like:39356
9/2     Evil Corporation Wal-Mart response to New Orleans looters:
        http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=170102839
        \_ $15m in goods at retail prices or Wal-Mart prices?
        \_ When is Bill Gates going do donate some Office 97 to the victims?
           \_ I wish you'd post your names so I could hate you both properly.
              Fucktards.
           \_ What do you think the "sandbags" are filled with?
2005/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39449 Activity:nil
9/2     Ha-ha
        http://drudgereport.com had a photo of Dubya talking with the two African
        American women.  Then I submitted aspo's transcript and the motd link
        to the CNN video.  15 minutes later and the photo's no longer there.
2005/9/2-3 [Recreation/Food] UID:39450 Activity:nil
9/2     "They need to stabilize that situation," the President said.
        "They need to make sure that the food and medicine that is in
        place is given to the people that need the food and medicine."
        What "they" is he referring to, the French?
        \_ God, who else? God Bless.            !conservative
        \_ Either FEMA or some LA state agency.
2005/9/2 [Uncategorized] UID:39451 Activity:nil
9/1     Caucasian chicks are special. They are the cross between Greek
        goddesses and the Amazon Warrior. I am ready to do battle with them...
        \_ Dude, people.  it's the 2nd
           \_ Is this or the previous post a reference to something?
                I don't get it. --likes white girls, but also likes
                                  brown, black, yellow, red, etc
2005/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39452 Activity:nil
9/1     They should just take New Orleans off the U.S. map and rename it
        to Gulf of George Bush, in honor of our great president George Bush.
           \_ Pho Toop?
2005/9/2 [Uncategorized] UID:39453 Activity:kinda low
9/2     what was up with the FEMA chief dude pretending to brief
        gwbush on TV this morning?
        \_ Gimme a P!  Gimme an H!  Gimme an O!  Gimme a T!  Gimme an O!
           Gimme an O!  Gimme a P!  What's that spell?!
           \_ Pho Toop?
              \_ Do they do that at Pho 84?
        \_ He wants to live in Guantanamo Bay.
2005/9/2-3 [Consumer/Audio] UID:39454 Activity:nil
9/2     Anyone subscribe to Sirius or XM Sat?  What do you think of it?
2005/9/2-3 [Consumer/Audio, Recreation/Travel/Nola] UID:39455 Activity:nil
9/2     New Orleans mayor tells it like it is:
        http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/02/nagin/index.html
        Audio clip:
        http://www.zen41771.zen.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/WWL-AM%20Interview%20Nagin.mp3
2005/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:39456 Activity:nil
9/2     Chinese researcher warns of nude Web chats.  http://csua.org/u/d8i
        \_ Nude motd editing still ok? I hope so!
           \_ That depends, are you making provacative poses?
2005/9/2-3 [Uncategorized] UID:39457 Activity:nil
9/2     Any tips from sodans who have taken the GMAT? Any good study guide?
2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39458 Activity:nil
9/2     Bush in Biloxi - real life becomes SNL skit:
        http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickability/index.html?url=/video/us/2005/09/02/vo.bush.biloxi.families.cnn
        \_ Sorry, but can you tell me how is it that Bush hugging
           hurricane victims, holding hands with relief workers,
           and giving out words of comfort while the victims thank
           him... how that's suppose to make Bush look bad? Hello?
           Looks like 2008 will belong to Jeb Bush. Sad day for the
           victims, sad realization for all of us.
              \_ I guess you didn't see the horrible irony of his clue-free
                 conversation with the two black women, but oh well.
                 \_ That is how you, 48% of the people think. 52% will look
                    at the images and say "Our great chief is so brave to
                    show up in Louisiana! And he gives hugs and support
                    to those in trouble. I'm so proud I voted for him!!!"
                    \_ I dunno, I hear people are already calling New Orleans
                       "Lake George."
                       \_ Only in the People's DemoKratic Republic of
                          Berserkeley.
2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39459 Activity:nil
9/2     The big disconnect on New Orleans --
        The official version; then there's the in-the-trenches version
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/index.html
        \_ When the feds are being this fucktarded and stupid, even the MSM
           can see it.
        \_ FEMA head wants to be the next Iraqi Information Minister.
2005/9/2 [Uncategorized] UID:39460 Activity:nil
9/2     According to the Red Cross, the rapes are all hoaxes.
        \_ Url please?
2005/9/2-3 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:39461 Activity:nil
9/2     http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050902/od_nm/germany_spiders_dc
        German lady eradicated spiders by burning her whole house down.
        \- it was the only way to be sure.
2005/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:39462 Activity:nil
9/2     Is it possible to set up an auto-reply on cusa account?  How to do it?
        Create a .auto-reply file?
        \_ man vacation
          \_ follow the vacation man, my test account get an auto-reply
             containing "|/usr/bin/vacation
                        (reason: Command line usage error)"
        \_ man procmailex
           \_ thanks procmail auto-reply worked for me.
              \_ How is your loop detection?  -tom
2005/9/2-5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39463 Activity:moderate
9/2     So everyone is complaining that the Federal response to
        this Katrina business is too slow.
        1. Why should there be a federal response at all?
        2. Shouldn't it be the responsiblity of the state to deal
           with this sort of thing?
        3. Why blame the feds for acting slowly when the states
           didn't ask for help for ~ 2 days? [ I could be wrong
           on the timeframe here ]
        \_ 33% Federal income tax, that's fucking why.  Screw all the "the
           gub'mint should this, and the Feds should that", here's a service
           that people paid for and they ain't getting it.  Someone should
           call the BBB.  -John
        2. Shouldn't it be the responsiblity of the state to deal
           with this sort of thing?
        3. Why blame the feds for acting slowly when the states
           didn't ask for help for ~ 2 days? [ I could be wrong
           on the timeframe here
        \_ Hurray for narrow ideologies that oversimplify issues.  I think
           the problem with the federal response is that this catastrophe
           was predicted up to four years ago, yet the budget for building
           precautions to avert it has been consistently cut by this
           administration.  Then it's taken this long to bring to bear the
           official federal disaster relief agency, which should nominally
           be in charge since its supposed replacement has not yet been put
           in place.  If this is the response time for a predicted disaster
           with that many people who did not or could not evacuate, what's
           going to happen the next time an unpredicted disaster strikes?
        \_ So, you don't think FDR should of step in to revive the economy
           back in the 1930's, right?  Should we abolished EPA and SEC?
           \_ I think FDR over stepped the bounds of his authority
              in many cases (the USSC thought so as well). I'm not
              100% convinced that the EPA falls w/in the commerce
              pwr of Art 1 Sec 8, but its probably close. The SEC
              clearly falls under the commerce pwr, so congress
              has ever right to establish it.
              has every right to establish it.
              My argument is about separation of pwrs, the nature
              of our gov is that the states are independent from
              the fed gov and are responsible for administration
              of internal affiars. This is an internal affair,
              let the state deal w/ it UNLESS they ask for help
              from the feds. IF they ask for help from the feds
              and the feds mess it up, then its probably okay to
              evaluate the federal response. But evaluating the
              federal response prior to any state request is not
              valid. [ If I got the timeframe wrong, sorry to be
              a bother ]
              \_ hmm... state right again.  I thought those who
                 advocate "seperate but equal" use "state right" as
                 main arguement.  *FURTHER*  How about the Flood of
                 Mississippi in 1927, when bankers in New Orleans
                 decided to break the leeves to save New Orleans.
                 But the result was complete devistation to the country
                 side... State Supreme Court was completely aligned
                 with those white plantation owners / bankers, all
                 law suit was ruled in favor of those who were white.
                 You *PREFER* that kind of state right?  --non white
                 \_ The states are subordinate to the constitution
                    and separate but equal is incompatible w/ the
                    the 14th amd.
                    If the local gov/populace undertakes a measures
                    that is not in the best interest of the local
                    populace, the sol'n isn't to call in the feds.
                    The sol'n is to deal w/ it local. Or move.
                    Personally, I don't trust any gov. - local or
                    fed - to act in the best interests of the ppl.
                    But I think that the feds have even less interest
                    in acting responsibly than the locals, therefore
                    I am opposed to widespread fed intervention.
                    -also non-white
        \_ You _are_ wrong on the timeframe.  Blanco asked for financial
           assistance for facilitating evacuations on the 26th, when it
           became apparent that the storm (then a Cat IV, soon to be Cat V)
           was heading their way.  Why is a federal response needed?  Because
           preventing a meltdown of an entire region of our country is an
           integral part of protecting your precious markets.  This is a
           social, economic, and humanitarian crisis on our sovreign territory.
           \_ As I understand it, assistance for evacuation for the
              entire region was given by the fed gov (note more than
              just NO was affected). The problem w/ NO is that the
              local resources were not mobilized b/c of local gov
              inaction and local resident refusal. The fed gov
              should not be blamed for the actions of the local
              populace.
              My questions have nothing to do w/ mkts, &c. They
              are about separation of pwrs.  Shouldn't the states
              be responsible for themselves to a certain extent?
              Why should the fed gov be involved in everything
              immediately?
              Is it always true that a federal response will be
              superior to a local response (cf '89 quake)?
              [ Perhaps my views re this event are colored b/c I
                come from a part of the world where thousands
                of ppl die in floods every year and no one ever
                notices ]
              \_ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard
              \_ http://tinyurl.com/deota (news.yahoo.com)
                 This was a failure of planning.  It's STILL failing.  There
                 are people waiting and wanting to help.  There is a breakdown
                 here that is resulting in people dying of dehydration and
                 illness on the streets of american cities.  When the federal
                 government has depleted the available national guard for the
                 states involved, it is THEIR responsibility to fill the gaps.
                 \_ A few questions:
                    1. Is the argument: the feds sent the NG from LA to
                       Iraq so that's why they weren't in NO to help w/
                       this mess?
                    \_ This is one portion of the argument that puts the onus
                       of insufficient resources for the state on the feds.
                    2. If this is the argument, is the assertion also
                       that so many NG are in Iraq that all of the NG
                       offered by the other states wouldn't have been
                       enough to deal w/ the situtaion?
                    \_ I don't know, and can't speak to it.  but you apparently
                       didn't read the article.  the request _was_ made for
                       more NG support and it languished in Washington (who
                       would, I suppose, have to approve any interstate troop
                       transfers).
                       \_ I got the impression that the delay was b/c LA
                          wanted to use the NG troops for police purposes
                          and hadn't put into place provisions for such
                          use in their agreements. I saw the delay as
                          shortsightedness on LA's part not as a failing
                          of the feds. [ I could be wrong ]
                    3. Assuming that the feds hadn't deployed the NG
                       to Iraq, is the assertion that there were enough
                       NG in NO to deal with the situtation in a better
                       manner?
                    4. If so, where is the proof that the NG in NO wouldn't
                       have been overwhelmed just like the NO cops were?
                       The whole city was flooded and most of the roads
                       were out. Unless you are claiming that the NG in NO
                       had a huge fleet of choppers and hovercraft, what
                       difference could it possibly have made - many of
                       the LA NG probably would have ended up dead as well.
                    \_ Wow.  Logical leap.  I don't know what their plan would
                       be but I would assume it would not include congregating
                       their forces in the center of Katrina's path and letting
                       it wipe them off the map.  Are you claiming that the LA
                       NG is a backwoods militia with a couple jeeps and some
                       armored bicycles?  I would think they would have large
                       vehicles and cargo movers that could be used as personnel
                       transports to help facillitate evacuations and high-water
                       vehicles, helicopters and boats to help in search and
                       rescue, and portable generators to keep hospitals
                       working.  Since these things didn't show up, I would
                       assume that they didn't have enough people and equipment
                       here.
                       \_ NO was prepared for a cat 3 or so hurricane, not
                          one this big. It was known that the best way to
                          survive was to evacuate, but the local gov didn't
                          handle that properly. If the NG had been in NO,
                          where is the proof that they could have handled
                          the situation better than the cops if the whole
                          place knew they couldn't have handled a situation
                          like this?
                    5. Assume that the NG hadn't been deployed to Iraq,
                       some (perhaps many) of the NG in LA would have
                       been outside of NO. What is the basis for a claim
                       that they could have rendered assistance to NO
                       in a better manner than external NG troops?
                    \_ How big do you think LA is?  The roads have been
                       passable enough for busses leaving.  I'm sure they could
                       get their armored bicycles through in less than 5 FUCKING
                       DAYS.
                       \_ This makes no difference. If the external
                          troops could have deployed as quickly as
                          the LA troops, then the fact that the LA
                          troops were not present does not change
                          anything.
                    While there may have been a failure of planning,
                    to me it seems to be a failure at a state level
                    not at a fed level. The fed response seems to be
                    sufficient.
                    \_ The president doesn't agree with you
                       \_ So what? I don't agree w/ the pres on many
                          things.
        \_ Hello jblack! Haven't seen you for a while. I miss you too.
           Did you have a blast at the golf course? Did you break 80?
        \_ Is this the same idiot who said he wouldn't donate money
           to natural disaster relief funds because we should
           instead be donating money to the "root of the problem"?
           \_ No. I donated money to this (and many other) relief
              efforts. I'm just not clear on why this is/should be
              a federal problem instead of a state problem (the
              states are free to ask for federal help, but until
              they do can/why should the feds get involved?)
        \_ Thank you for speaking out. Like you I'm a minority and I'm
           fed up with you socialists. I'm a believer in family
           values, moral values, free markets, small government, self-
           reliance, and fiscal rectitude. The New Orleans are like the
           grasshoppers who squander food and party everyday until
           winter comes. It's just a matter of time before they start
           begging for food. There's a saying that God helps those who
           help themselves. I'm sick and tired of having to pay
           for illegal immigrants and lazy people so that they can get
           a free education and free lunch. If the Orleans had any family
           values or work ethics they would work hard and support
           themselves.  Instead they leech off from hard honest working
           people. The fact that they loot and rape tells you the kind
           of people they are. They're worse than the grasshoppers and
           they have no sympathy from me.
           \_ This just has to be a troll.
              \- i'm sure this is a troll but to find a point in it
                 all ... i think there are tiers of govt involvement
                 there are tiers of government. it's quite under-
                 stanable the federal govt be the "backup" when the
                 state/local govt collapses. it's not like states should
                 only rely on "private point to point agreements"
                 with other public or private units ... again, analogosly
                 when orange county collapsed, the CA state steped in
                 and this is case the "buck" reasonably stopped with
                 the state. moving on from "tier of govt" to "tiers
                 of involvement/effort", i think even many non-fruitcake
                 libertarian and small-govt people would think it is
                 consistent with the mission of a "minimal state"
                 to provide order. moving on from there to the
                 provision of emergency clean water, doesnt seem
                 crazy talk. there is a decent prima facie economic
                 case to think the govt should be responsible for
                 public goods like levy's ... surely even more so
                 public goods like levees ... surely even more so
                 than the classic case of lighthouses, which are a
                 sop to the shipping industry by and large [yes, i
                 am aware of some cliams of the possibility of private
                 lighthouses]. this level of involvement, does not
                 seem at odds with federal involvement in the new
                 bay bridge, or ANWAR, or Bob's Expensive Alaskan
                 Bridge or the Army Corps of Engineers dredging
                 channels for oil tankers or the Fed govt researching
                 AIDS or cancer. but finally, if we are talking should the
                 govt be involved in "making people whole", i do agree
                 this seems problematic. i personally have not heard a
                 good rational [as opposed to political or senitmental]
                 case for why there should have been a special compensation
                 fund for 9/11 victims. i think vastly increasing the
                 death benefits for military KIA or firefighters and such
                 KIA at home should be given relatively more. --psb
                 \_ Orange County is paying the bonds off with their
                    own money. The State didn't bail them out.
                    \- the state did step in in the short term.
                       if you want to send LA a bill for the
                       water delivered later, i guess you can do
                       so. should the state send a bill to people
                       for firefighting services? or just get out
                         \_ they do.  it's called "taxes".
                       of the firefighting business? i think there
                       is a difference between firefighting and
                       rescuing people from mt mckinley. and
                       remember at least some of the hypociritical
                       conservatives [not the libertarians in this
                       case] wnat the FED GOVT to be involved in
                       protecting "traditional marriages" from
                       assmaster and deviant marriages. maybe
                       scalia will claim the state will make it
                       iillegal for people to build PRIVATE LEVEES
                       or drink non-govt suppplied water ... oh wait
                       in some countries where water provision has been
                       made private they *have* passed laws making it
                       illegal to collect your own water.
                       (BTW, I am not familiar with the details of
                       how the orange county matter was settled
                       but i do believe there was some assistance
                       in buying htem time to restructure [that's
                       part of the point of bankrupty gradations]
                       and there may have been some "repuational
                       assistance" to help them lower their
                       interest rates when they went back into
                       the borrowing pool).
                       \_ Hey Partha, I think you should work on making your
                          writing look a little less like verbal vomit.
                            -- ilyas (friendly neighborhood total dumbass)
                               \- verbal vomit >> mental vomit
                                  i think a point of intersection of
                                  my moral and your political philosophy
                                  is the state should not compel you to
                                  vomit or read. however you may wish to
                                  read Rochin v. California and vomit.
                                  http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/333
                                  --psb
                                  \_ I think the state should make an exception
                                     in your case, since you are a pol pot
                                     in training.  You know, the counterfactual
                                     golden rule -- do onto others as they
                                     would have done onto you if they only
                                     could.  -- ilyas
                                     \- well i think i'd do a lot of good
                                        early in my tenure as pol pot ...
                                        i acknowledge things might get
                                        carried away after a while. i mean
                                        we can all agree on tunring the
                                        out of hand after a while. i mean
                                        we can all agree on tunring The
                                        Donald into Trump Carpaccio, right?
                                        \_ You give yourself too much credit.
                                             -- psb for fertilizer 2008
                        \_ We used to have private fire companies whose
                           services were paid for by the insurance companies.
                           I think all fire fighting is public in the US now.
                           I wonder if it's now illegal to operate a private
                           fire company or merely just uneconomical.
                           \_ I know someone who works for one, but he only
                              does forest fires, and he said his unit is the
                              only one he knows of that's private.  He likes it.
                           \- well there were medival "law merchants" too.
                              doesnt mean today the govt should get out of
                              the business of business law. i supposed
                              gated communities can choose to have their
                              own fire fighters and that may get into
                              messy situations like private firefighting
                              companies "poaching" FFs trained on the public
                              dime. with an "arragement" like that it may
                              be "economical" ... OWNERSHIP SOCIETY.
                              i shall now watch CHEF DU FER instead of the motd.
                              \_ Chef du fer?  I'll be playing chemin de fer
                                 tomorrow.  BTW, much of the business of the
                                 legal system is now handled by private
                                 arbitrators.
                                 \- yes and lots of people put out their own
                                    kitchen fires. that's why i wrote
                                    "get out of business law" not 'have a
                                    monopoly on dispute resolution".
                                    they do have a monopoly on criminal
                                    prosecution.
2005/9/2-3 [Science/Disaster, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39464 Activity:nil
9/2     Christ.  It just gets worse and worse.
        http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_nolaview/archives/2005_09.html#076355
2005/9/2-3 [Uncategorized] UID:39465 Activity:nil
9/2     Carbon nano-rods are harder than diamonds:
        http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7926
2005/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:39466 Activity:nil
9/2     Hey motd I used to have perl w/DBI 1.42 & DBD 2.9003. After
        upgrading Perl, DBI 1.48, & DBD 3.0002_1 I'm seeing something
        really weird. The following used to work:
        $dbh=$DBI->prepare("INSERT INTO data VALUES(\?)");
        for ($i=0; $i<10; $i++) {
          if (!$dbh->execute($i)) {
            print("Oh no! Can't execute: ",$dbh->errstr);
          }
        }
        This runs ok before the upgrade. After the upgrade, if I ever
        see just one error, the rest of the execute statements give
        me an error, even though they do insert. Anyone run into this
        problem? Is this a bug? ok thx.
        \_ Hi, I'm the op. I tried DBD 3.0002 instead of 3.0002_1 even
           though the CPAN web site lists them with the same number
           of PASS/FAILED tests. I guess they missed this simple test case.
           Anyways, DBD 3.0002 seems to work. Thanks.
2005/9/2-4 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/RealEstate] UID:39467 Activity:nil
9/2     Hey, this is pretty cool:
        http://neworleans.craigslist.org/hhh
        \_ Uh, yeah, but some of these people don't even have enough money
           in their bank accounts to fly to Stepford, Connecticut.
           \- there is an interesting mix of impressive and
              creepy stuff in there. at least one person says
              he'll let a hurricane victim have his southwest
             free tix to get there. geeze, there are real
             estate ads there?
2017/12/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
12/16   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:September:02 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>