Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:10 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/8/10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32800 Activity:high
8/10    It's hilarious how the motd has turned into http://jibjab.com.  -John
        \_ But an aborigne sodan is missing.
        \_ Yeah it's a fucking laugh riot. And we've got another 3 months
           of this to look forward to. The only way I'm going to be able
           to maintain my sanity is through weekly watchings of The
           Big Lebowski. That and the occasional acid flashback.
           \_ If you require the motd to be in any particular state to retain
              your sanity, you've already lost.
           \_ I think we will get a break over the olympics.
              \_ A break from what?
2004/8/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32801 Activity:high
8/10    Bush:  "My opponent hasn't answered the question of whether knowing
        what we know now, he would have supported going into Iraq."
        Kerry:  "I'll answer it directly. Yes, I would have voted for the
        authority. I believe it is the right authority for a president to
        have but I would have used that authority effectively."
        \_  Kerry challenged Bush to answer some questions of his own --
            why he rushed to war without a plan for the peace, why he used
            faulty intelligence, why he misled Americans about how he would
            go to war and why he had not brought other countries to the table.
            "There are four not hypothetical questions like the president's,
            real questions that matter to Americans and I hope you'll get
            the answers to those questions, because the American people
            deserve them," he told reporters.
            \_ Have you stopped beating your wife?  The American people
               deserve to know the answer to this real question.
            \_ The charge that Bush had no plan to win the peace is legitimate
               but the charge that Bush relied on intelligence agencies
               implies that Bush should have become fluent in Arabic, Farsi,
               and Pashto, handed the presidency to Cheney, and went off and
               gathered his own intelligence.
               \_ No, it just requires that he was willing to search out and
                  listen to people who disagreed with the *false* phoney
                  consensus presented by Wolfowitz and Tenant. He could
                  have found them with Google, or by talking to the numerous
                  CIA career agents who quit in protest to the hyping of
                  the intel. The fact that he either does not have people
                  in his inner circle willing to tell him what he doesn't
                  want to hear or that he ignores them speaks volumes about
                  his competence and ability to lead the nation.
                  \_ So when the President, who already suffers information
                     bombardment, gets info from the guys he is supposed to
                     rely on to give him info, he should dismiss them and
                     read blogs he found from google to create our foreign
                     policy?  This is a joke, right?  IHBT?
                     \_ He has surrounded himself with yesmen and ideologues
                        and doesn't even read a newspaper. Even after they
                        failed him, he has not shaken up his cabinet. He
                        demonstrates a fundamental inability to think
                        critically. Stop deleting this. If you can't reply,
                        just nuke the thread.
                        \_ What newspaper?  According to the wall, the mass
                           media is all dog food and we should get our news
                           from blogs.  If he shook up his cabinet like Tenet
                           getting the axe, you'd just be here saying like you
                           have before that he was blaming his subordinates for
                           what he is resonsible for and he should resign, not
                           leave the buck at his subordinate's desks.  There is
                           just no making some people happy.  You hate the guy
                           and that's ok but don't try to hide it behind that
                           sort of noise.  Just be upfront about it.  It's ok.
                           [and no i didn't delete anything, get over it. my
                            reply is there.  you havent posted anything that
                            isnt trivial to reply to.]
                           \_ Nope, if he shook up his cabinet, I would have
                              some respect for him. At least he would have
                              admitted to himself that there was a problem.
                              As it is, he claims that he makes no mistakes.
                              He is an arrogant boob and should be trusted
                              with the kind of power he has. As for what
                              newspaper, how about the Christian Science
                              Monitor? How about the WSJ? How about
                              anything at all??? And what *I* said was that
                              Bush should fire Cheney, Wolfowitz and the
                              neocon cabal, apologize to the nation, apologize
                              to the UN and apologize to France and Germany.
                              Hell, if he did all that, I would probably
                              vote for him. But since I post anonymously,
                              you are to be forgiven for confusing me with
                              some other "Bush hater."
                              \_ So you think the WSJ, CSM, etc, have better
                                 access to information than the FBI, CIA, and
                                 other multi billion dollar funded intelligence
                                 agencies?!  Ooookeeey....  Why should anyone
                                 apologise to anyone?  For what exactly?
                                 \_ For leading the nation to war under
                                    false pretenses. It is okay to make
                                    mistakes. It is not okay to make mistakes,
                                    pretend like you never did it, and not
                                    fix the problem that led to the mistake.
                                    At least the CSM isn't a bubble filled
                                    with people who all agree with each other.
                                    Perhaps you didn't notice that a bunch
                                    of CIA analysts quit in protest over the
                                    poor handling of the intel, as well as
                                    half the British cabinet. I suspect Bush
                                    didn't notice. Here is a bunch of great
                                    stuff from conservative commentators
                                    agreeing with me, that Bush will never
                                    see, because, sadly, he doesn't read
                                    anything except from his bubble world:
                http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/18/bush/index.html

                                    \_ Which false pretenses?  WMD was not the
                                       only reason to go in.  And has been
                                       posted and censored many times before,
                                       the intelligence agencies in this and
                                       many other countries all believed Iraq
                                       had large stock piles of WMD.  Clinton,
                                       Gore, Kerry, Albright, and many others
                                       are on record as saying they believed
                                       he has had WMD for years.  Why did none
                                       of them fire all their people and go
                                       read a blog or the CSM?  Robert Novak,
                                       1 elected official and 1 random paper
                                       is hardly "a bunch of great stuff from
                                       conservative commentators".  It's some
                                       stuff from 3 sources.  I don't consider
                                       Novak a conservative, btw.
                                       \_ "Iraq has ties to al Qaeda"
                                          "Iraq can mobilize chemical and
                                          biological weapons within 45 minutes"
                                          "Saddam kicked out the UN inspectors"
                                          And could this be considered a flip
                                          flop?  Then: " It costs a lot to
                                          fight this war.  We have spent more
                                          than a billion dollars a month
                                          -- over $30 million a day -- and
                                          we must be prepared for future
                                          operations."  Now: they plan on
                                          putting off their funding requests
                                          until after the election, then have
                                          to ask for $50B emergency
                                          authorization...
                                       \_ WMD was certainly one of the major,
                                          if not the major justification given
                                          to the American people. And they are
                                          not there. No, your one 10 year old
                                          sarin shell does not count. It does
                                          not really matter that much who else
                                          made the same error, since the
                                          decision to go to war was with Mr.
                                          Bush, but it mitigates it somewhat
                                          He still needs to say mea culpa
                                          somehow. Which he has not.
                                          \_ But they had Weapons of Mass
                                             Destruction-related program
                                             activities!
        \_ By "I would have voted for the authority", did Kerry mean he would
           have voted for going into Iraq today knowing that there is no WMD
           anyway?
           \_ I believe he has said that he looked at voting for war powers
              as giving the president a new tool for handling the situation,
              but that he thought it would be used as a credible threat and
              possibly a banner to rally allies behind rather than us diving
              in with a pitiable coalition.
              \_ Nuance!  So really he meant to show the world (again) that the
                 US is a paper tiger that makes threats but never backs them up
                 in modern times.  Good plan.  That'll scare em!  That and his
                 fighting a more 'sensitive war against terrorism' (his words)
                 will keep the world safe!  I'm voting for Kerry this fall for
                 sure!  --Osama
                 \_ That's not how I read it. I read it as: I would have fought
                    a war againt Iraq, but I would have listended to Shinsheki
                    and gotten 300k troops like he requested, not taunted him,
                    called him a coward and a traitor and run him out of
                    Washington.
                    \_ That's not what he said.  Anyway, even if that *is* what
                       he said or meant, 300k troops would do what exactly for
                       us in Iraq right now and the last year?  Make more
                       targets?  Make the Iraqi people even more upset about
                       the even larger force sitting on their territory?  We
                       have more than enough fire power to genocide the entire
                       country.  Lack of troops is not the problem.
                       \_ Tell that to the generals who have said otherwise.
                          The big problem is our military is trained to go
                          in, destroy quickly, and leave.  We are not trained
                          for peacekeeping missions, let alone nation building.
                          Bush's biggest failure in Iraq was not taking this
                          into account and alienating our allies who have a
                          better track record in this area.
                       \_ Shinseki was canned for saying we didn't have enough
                          troops.  Now Bush says, "If the military asks for
                          more, I'll give it to them".  The military doesn't
                          ask.  Get it now?  (just google for shinseki fired)
2004/8/10 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32802 Activity:very high
8/9     Kerry's 'Christmas in Cambodia'
        http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040809-090612-9480r.htm
        Does Kerry have any credibility left at all.  He has
        now perpetuated this lie for years.
        \_ Fuck you!
           \_ Why bother posting?
        \_ As aaron would say, all this talk of Kerry being a lizard is all
           well and good, but it's much more important to get that other lizard
           out of office.
           \_ So Kerry can what - cede the US to the U.N.???
              \_ Straw Man arguments are not very convincing.
                 \_ Then stop using them against GWB.  It's boring and a
                    waste of precious motd bits.
                    \_ No motd bit is precious.
                       \_ Exactly.  So stop it.
              \_ So he can institute a communist, gay, atheist state and
                 provide free abortions for illegal immigrants as part of
                 the welfare bureaucracy which will take away your guns.
                 \_ Don't forget a maximum wage! -- liberal #1 fan
                 \_ what is wrong with being atheist state?
                    \_ what is wrong with allowing people to practice their
                       non-violent religion?  --atheist
        \_ Yes, it is unfortunate if true. I think everyone who has been in
           the military inflates their accomoplishments a bit, but this was
           the basis of some of his anti-war claims. It is still a tempest
           in a teapot. But worse for him, imho, than the idiotic Swift Boat
           smear campaign.
           \_ That's bullshit.  My grandfather served in WWII.  In infantry
              reconnaissance in Red Army.  You know, the guys who crawled
              reconnaissance in the Red Army.  You know, the guys who crawled
              around in small teams on the frontlines and captured German
              'tongues.'  When I was a kid I would always ask him for war
              stories and so on, and he never said anything.  I never
              understood why until much later.. -- ilyas
              \_ In soviet russia, war criminal becomes you!
              \_ This is very similar to why my father finds Kerry
                 creepy.  Normal people don't like to talk about their
                 experiances in war, Kerry brags about it constantly.
                 \_ no he doesn't
                    \_ yes he does
                    \_ Silly.  It is the entire basis of his run for office.
                       He spent 19 years in the Senate and spent 73 words over
                       a 55 minute speech.  Most of the rest was about his
                       stay in Vietnam which was only slightly longer than
                       his speech.
              \_ I know several Vietnam vets.  I didn't even know most of
                 them were there until I knew each one for a few years and
                 even then they barely mentioned it and sure as hell didn't
                 tell me any war stories.  All of them fought and not for
                 Kerry's *four months* of bullshit.  Kerry is just creepy.
                 The fact that he signed up and took footage and did all
                 the rest 30 years previous in a planned effort to become
                 President later is just freaky and wrong.
                 \_ Kerry's "four months" was his _SECOND_ tour in Vietnam.
                    \_ Huh?  So how long was he in 'nam total?  Link?
                       \_ According to the Navy, 16 months.
                    \_ That's right.  His first term was sitting on a missile
                       frigate far from any action.  Playing cards all day
                       takes a toll on a man.
                       \_ Have you ever played bridge with the devil in
                          the pale moonlight?
                 \_ This, from Yahoo News, was posted on 2/17:
                    (http://csua.org/u/61g but the link expired)
                    "Others call Kerry's protest activities the reflection of a
                    man so ambitious for a career in politics that he
                    consciously held on to his own medals, now displayed in his
                    Washington office. During the protest at the Capitol,
                    Kerry, then 27, threw the medals of two other servicemen,
                    along with his own ribbons."
                    \_ Better than a man ambitious for a career in keggers
                       and blow.
                    \_ I wonder how those two other servicemen feel today.
                 \_ My grandfather was also in WW II, despite being in his
                    40s. He was Jewish and escaped from a concentration camp.
                    He lived in hiding until the war ended. He rarely mentioned
                    anything about it. Even his wife didn't really know what
                    happened in all that time, except that he escaped and
                    spent some time blowing up railways. All he ever told
                    me when I asked him is: "You don't know anything about
                    war" while brushing me aside. My girlfriend's entire
                    family is military and served (as officers) in Vietnam
                    and they don't talk much about it either. This seems
                    typical to me. --dim
                 \_ My grandparents and several aunts and uncles lived through
                    the Japanese occupation during WWII.  Never heard any of
                    them say anything about those years.
        \_ Is story this in the NYT?  No.  The WP?  No.  The LAT?  No.  Is it
           in any serious paper?  No.  Any serious media?  No.  Obviously
           this is not a serious story.
           \_ Uh oh, it's mr. i-hate-moonies guy.  Go away, troll.
              \_ he does have a good point.  and moonies still suck. - danh
                 \_ no he just has a personal bias which you share and are
                    confusing with a good point in order to completely dismiss
                    a source of information that sometimes contradicts your
                    political agenda.  it is always easier to dismiss for
                    personal reasons rather than respond to a contrary
                    viewpoint.  I thought better of you.
                    \_ The Washington Times is trash, less factually accurate
                       than the Drudge Report. If you refuse to admit that
                       to yourself, you will end up with a head full of lies.
                       \_ Yes, yes, mr. anti-moonie has been trolling here for
                          years.  I keep asking for something other than the
                          ownership records to back up this claim but I've
                          given up.  The anti-WT crowd had their chance to
                          come up with something, anything, for the last few
                          years and has 100% consistently failed to do so.
                          I will be trolled no longer.
                          \_ If you can't be bothered to type Washington
                             Times media watchdog into google, then there
                             is probably no hope for you, but here goes:
                     http://www.fact-index.com/t/th/the_washington_times.html
                             http://www.dailyhowler.com/h120899_2.shtml
                     http://www.fair.org/media-outlets/washington-times.html
                             They *routinely* run editorials on the front
                             page, disguised as "journalism." They are
                             as bad as Salon.
2004/8/10 [Computer/HW/Languages] UID:32803 Activity:very high
8/9     Triffids!
        \_ Zulus!  Thousands of them!
        \_ Dive bombers!  Enemy dive bombers!
        \_ That's no moon.
        \_ Nazis.  I hate these guys
        \_ Yo she-bitch, let's go.
        \_ looks like i picked the wrong time to quit sniffing glue
                \_ Joey, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?
                   \_ Midnight Express.
        \_ GUNS!  BIG! FUCKING! GUNS!
        \_ You cannot do that without the will of the people, Mr. President!
        \_ I *like it*!!
        \_ We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
        \_ Can someone please provide a synopsis of the Day of Triffids?
                \_ Better yet, a synopsis using quotes from other films.
        \_ "Apples, Apples!" "Rain!" "Very small rocks!" "A DUCK!" ""
2004/8/10 [Uncategorized] UID:32804 Activity:very high
8/10    Whatever happened to Faye Wray?
        \_ A giant monkey came and ate her.
        \_ Does anyone here remember Vera Lynn?
                \_ anybody ;)
                \_ Remember how she said that we would meet again
                        \_ Yes, but she didn't say where or when.  -John
        \_ She died of old age before you were born.
           \_ Actually, no, she died on Sunday.  Mmmm.. ass talking
              \_ You were born yesterday, so she died before you were born.
        \_ Whatever happened to Joe Pesci?  I tried to google for an answer
           last night and failed.
           \_ What should have happened to him?
              \_ He should have played Dick Cheney in F911.
                 \_ I heard he was going to but the VRWC offed him and buried
                    him in Vince Foster's coffin.
2004/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:32805 Activity:high
8/10    C question.  Is there anything wrong with the following?

        const my_struct_t **pp;
        pp = malloc(sizeof(my_struct_t *));
        pp = realloc(pp, sizeof (my_struct_t *) * 2);

        "gcc -Wall" doesn't complain.  But the M$ compiler (cl.exe) complains
        about the realloc line:

        t3.c(12) : warning C4090: 'function' : different 'const' qualifiers
        t3.c(12) : warning C4022: 'realloc' : pointer mismatch for actual
        parameter 1

        Thanks in advance.
        \_ Your code is correct.  The warnings above are both wrong, and in
           fact the same compiler recognizes the code as safe in C++ mode
           (which is stricter about const).  --mconst
        \_ I'd ask why GCC isn't complaining.  Consts shouldn't change.
           It might be that because there's nothing between the malloc and
           the realloc, GCC is noticing that the value of pp does not actually
           changem while MS sees you are writing to a const and bitches.
           \_ But what I'm trying to realloc is an array of variable pointers
              to constant structures.  The array elements (pointers to constant
              structures, const my_struct_t *) are not consts and do change.
              It's just that the structrues that the array elements point to
              (const my_struct_t) don't change.  I think it's just stupidity on
              M$'s part, but I just want to make sure.
              \_ YMWTS http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/const-correctness.html
        \_ You sure you're not compiling in MS as a cpp file?
           \_ It works as a CPP file -- see above.  --mconst
           \_ My file is a .c, and I compile like "cl t.c" with no options.
              I tried both version 12 and version 13 and they gave the same
              warning.
        \_ Where is the 'function' name declared?
        \_ BTW, pp = realloc(pp, ...) is a bad idea.  If realloc fails, you've
           just clobbered your old copy of pp and no longer can free it.
           --jameslin
           \_ Yeah I know.  The above was just to illustrate the type checking
              warning.  But thanks.
        \_ Does it still complain if you do something like:
           typedef const struct foo *pfoo;
           ...
           pfoo *p;
           ...
2004/8/10 [Recreation/Pets] UID:32806 Activity:nil
8/10    House cat hijacks airplane:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551672.stm
        Boy! I sure feel safe now!  Let's just hope those terrorists don't
        have cats.
        \_ uh oh. terrorists are training animals to attack and
        take control of the plane
2004/8/10 [Health/Eyes] UID:32807 Activity:high
8/10    More on Lasik. I had a second opinion from a really famous
        surgeon from Stanford Medical and he told me to lay off on
        any more laser enhancements which may fuck up my eyes even
        more. In fact he told me to wait a few more generations until
        the effects of Lasik on the "higher order aberrations" are
        more well known.

        A lot of the Lasik hype is based on how well one can see
        the black and white chart during daytime and while it is true
        that most of the Lasik patients will see 20/20 or better based
        on this test, it is weird that there does not exist a single,
        quantitative pre and post Lasik study on other important
        measurements such as glare, halos, starburst, loss of contrast,
        and many other debilitating symptoms. Surely companies like
        Visx and Bauch&Lomb would have such studies when they tested
        their machines, right? But in fact, they're absent from the
        doctors I talked to. Not surprisingly, they're also absent from
        the public.   -20/20 during day time, totally fucked up at night
        \_ what's wrong with your eyes at night?  what symptoms are you
           having?
        \_ It's not weird at all that studies are non-existant.  Doctors
           make a lot of money from these procedures, and that's pretty
           much all they care about.  If the studies showed that it was
           unsafe then their cash-cow would be taken away.
2004/8/10-12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:32808 Activity:nil
8/10    Programmer Analyst job in Marina del Rey.
        See /csua/pub/jobs/USC-ICT
        \_ what's the pay scale of a USC PA III ?
           \_ Post is updated.  Briefly, $46-76k.
        \_ what's the pay scale for a usc pa-3?
2004/8/10-11 [ERROR, uid:32809, category id '18005#22.58' has no name! , ] UID:32809 Activity:low
8/10    If I write code against libA, version 4 (so I do a
        #include <libA-4/A.h>), and also against libB (#include libB/B.h),
        which uses libA, version 5 (so libB does #include <libA-5/A.h>),
        I could have problems with conflicting function prototypes
        and so forth, right? Are there ways that people work around this
        without renaming things? And how are such problems best avoided
        in the first place? Thanks for any advice.
        \_ Namespaces are your best bet.
        \_ Try for a more onion model of interfaces-- use B exclusively,
           or just agree that you're going to track B and use
           whatever B's using.

810     http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6955
        Read the last part under "Command Confidence".  The best line is:
        "The senior staff believes the media is committed to seeing us win
        this thing...".
2004/8/10 [ERROR, uid:32810, category id '18005#22.58' has no name! , ] UID:32810 Activity:nil
8/10    http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6955
        Read the last part under "Command Confidence".  The best line is:
        "The senior staff believes the media is committed to seeing us win
        this thing...".
2004/8/10 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32811 Activity:nil
8/10    All of the mailing lists I am on have degenerated into
        50 Kerry guys boiling in outrage over the latest Bush
        atrocity vs that one Bush guy who uses mighty rhetorical
        devices like "It was in the NY Times, the paper of
        record!  It must be true!", well except for that one
        Nader guy who needs to be sent to the Negative Zone.
        I can't wait until November when Bush wins and ushers
        in 3000 years of darkness so my mailing list traffic
        dies down. - danh
        \_ Maybe you're on the wrong mailing lists.  It sounds like you got
           exactly like what you signed up for....
2004/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:32812 Activity:moderate
8/10    What command line tool exist for windows to create an iso image
        from a directory structure? or from a set of files specified
        on the cmd line or a input file? thanks.
        \_ mkisofs. oh wait, you said  "command line tool ... windows"
           \_ Uhm, cdr-tools (where mkisofs comes from) has been
              ported to Windows for quite some time now. Just google
              it (some german guys wrote this). Oh wait, you're a moron...
              \_ I am a moron who doesn't use Windows.
           \_ despite your deleting this there is still mkisofs for windows:
              http://www.dimensional.com/~sitaram/CD-R-for-CLUEd-in-Windows-users.html
              http://tinyurl.com/4vm69
        \_ Try daemontools but I haven't tried it in a looong time.
           \_ Daemon Tools mounts ISo images, not creates them, yes?
           \_ Daemon Tools mounts ISO images, not creates them, yes?
              \_ I really don't remember.  Like I said its been a long time.
                 Maybe their site will point you to writing tools if they
                 don't have them.
2004/8/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:32813 Activity:very high
8/10    Nothing to see here. move along, yes this is another "housing market
        crash is coming" link:
        http://csua.org/u/8jd [nytimes.com]
        \_ eh, whatevah, home prices in SoCal and NoCal will not crash, too
           many yuppies with money who don't have any money in the stock
           market.  Prices will stagnate at some point; and will only dip if
           something goes boom.  Take it from someone who has no experience.
           Can't say the same about other areas or states.
           \_ Yeah, like they didn't crash during the early ninties...
              (Someone who DOES have experience in the SoCal housing market
               because my family has owned real-estate there for over fifteen
               years, amongst other places around the globe)
              \_ Wasn't that "crash" a small drop followed by several years
                 of stagnation?  My mom bought her house right before the
                 crash and has done quite well regardless.
                 \_ After the peak in 1989, interest rates fell for 4
                    straight years, staving off a more severe drop.  Where
                    are the interest rates going to fall to this time?
                    \_ FWIW, my neighbors paid $50K less than I paid for
                       my house. I bought mine in 2001. They bought theirs
                       in 1989. Of course, now values have doubled off of
                       their original price. However, the drop was
                       significant. It took 10 years to reach the original
                       price again. You could see a 30% drop or more
                       easily, which sucks if you just bought a place for
                       $600K and find it's worth $400K in 2 years.
                       \_ YOu must live in a lowsy neighborhood.  My parents
                          bought their house in 1989 before the so-called
                          crash, and now it's valued at more than twice the
                          price they bought it.
                          \_ What part of 'doubled off original price' did
                             you not understand?
                             \_ in 10 years?  the fact is that most houses
                                in my parents' street doubled in prices from
                                1989 to 1999.  Only in the early 90s, it dipped
                                like 5%.  That's hardly a crash.
                                \_ Your parents are lucky or you are full
                                   of shit. In 1996 the median for houses
                                   was $160K. In 1989 it was $176K. That's
                                   a 7 year period over which there was
                                   a loss. It wasn't until around 1998-99
                                   that houses regained the old values. In
                                   the early 1990s the dip was more
                                   pronounced than "like 5%". In 1993, 43%
                                   of *ALL* home sales (no matter when the
                                   house was bought) were for a loss. The
                                   median loss was $23K on a $200K house.
                                   Median prices for La Crescenta, CA:
                                   1990: $290K, 1995: $212K, 2000: $310K
                                   2002: $382K, 2004: $537K
                                   Median prices for Newport Beach, CA:
                                   1990: $457K, 1995: $390K, 2000: $675K
                                   2002: $800K, 2004: $1090K
                                   \_  Probably lucky to purchase a house in
                                       a city where the job are.  And the
                                       real estate growth probably will
                                       continue since Google is there.  The
                                       price of a Mountain View (94043) house
                                       in '89 was $260k,  $350k in '95,  and
                                       $500k in '89 and now close to $650k.
                                       Sadly, this is not the best part of
                                       Mountain View and the schools are
                                       average to good.
              \_ My parent's house that I lived at for 15 years got foreclosed
                 on because of that.  Too much leveraging.  I still say there
                 won't be a crash; too many people with money these days, and
                 SoCal and NoCal will remain hot for yuppies looking for a new
                 home and speculators. -"eh, whatevah" person
                 \_ There are just too many millionaires out there in the
                    bay area.  If google goes IPO, there will be hundreds more.
           \_ If this another "housing market crash is coming!!!!!" article?
              Please save the rest of us from following another content free
              link description.
        \_ like the internet boom and bust, the hottest regions will
           have it the worst during the bust, just like your hot internet
           stocks.
           \_ No, because the most desirable locations will hold their
              value better. San Marino was one of the best places to own
              real estate during the last 'crash'.
           \_ I really, really doubt it.  How much did Internet stocks
              inflate as a percentage over how many years (let's take YHOO)?
              Then compare that to real estate.  This is just a dumbass test;
              I'm sure there are more fundamental differences.
        \_ Not likely because: 1) land is scarce. 2) population growth.
           3) house ownership is an American way of life.
2004/8/10-11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32814 Activity:very high
8/10    Now that we've successfully squished kchang (good job guys!) who's
        going to archive the motd?
        \_ why did he get squished the second time?  What was the official
           reason?
           \_ He was fingering soda more than once a second for his motd
              archive.  He stopped after being warned but was squished
              nevertheless because some people don't like him.
              \_ I guess he was on probation?
              \_ I got my UCLINK account suspended for fingering four
                 of my friends every 10 MINUTES.  So, the bar isn't all
                 that high.
           \_ rumor has it that he tried to bring down the entire
              http://berkeley.edu pipeline by fingering motd@csua.berkeley.edu
              \_ Even if he didn't, squishing kchang was still the right
                 thing to do.  He has harrassed soda users and employed
                 scripts of motd destruction in the past, and we can't
                 afford to let such hosers get another chance.
                   \_ hello tom
                      \_ i'm !tom - if you don't get it yet, it's a joke
                \- kchang seems like a pretty smart guy, if he seriously
                   wanted to bring down the network why would he use
                   a lame "while 1 {finger motd}" script instead of
                   more sophisticated methods? If the fingers don't
                   fit, you must acquit.
                   \_ Many alumni, however, do have the resolve and fortitude
                      to act against this threat.  The Politburo has not lived
                      up to its responsibilities, so we will rise to ours.
                      All the years of deceit and cruelty have now reached
                      an end.
                   \_ Why do you hate soda?
                 \_ So you're not so much advocating his squishing, as
                    advocating the repeal of his unsquishing?  Has anyone
                    considered reinstating his account on a limited basis, like
                    in a jail or something so KAIS MOTD can work again?
                    \_ The cyberterrorist threat to soda and the http://berkeley.edu
                       domain will be diminished the moment that kchang is
                       permanently squished.  Should enemies strike soda,
                       they would be attempting to shift our attention with
                       panic and weaken our morale with fear. In this, they
                       would fail.  They and all who have aided them will face
                       fearful consequences.  We are now acting because the
                       risks of inaction would be far greater.
                       \_ DIGITAL PEARL HARBOR!!!
                    \_ A jail... yeah, that could work. We must interrogate
                       kchang so that we may better understand the threat.
                       Where can we keep him that's outside UC jurisdiction?
        \_ motd archives suck
                \_ No, MOTD archives do not suck.  They let me check on
                   answers to questions and past links without having to
                   be by a networked PC every 30 minutes while some dipshit
                   deletes everything in sight, or some idiotic 5,000 line
                   "Bush-sucks-no-Kerry-sucks" thread scrolls by. -John
                        \_ so you're the jerk who deletes them
        \_ Who cares?!  Let's just keep squishing anyone else unpopular until
           everyone here agrees with us on everything!
           \_ it has nothing to do with popularity.  It has to do with him
              bouncing fingers off an EECS machine and pissing off the
              department.  (If that's really what he was squished for).  -tom
           \_ agreed! Who's our next target? ilyas? partha?
              \_ Hozers like these, and their erratic "associates", constitute
                 an axis of evil.
              \_ Whoa!  Am I like notorious now? -- ilyas
        \_ Does this look familiar?
           "Now, shadowy networks of individuals can bring great chaos
           and suffering to our motd.public file for less than it costs
           to purchase a single tank. The United CSUA can no longer
           solely rely on a reactive posture as we have in the past.
           We cannot let our enemies strike first. As a matter of
           common sense and self-defense, CSUA will act against such
           emerging threats before they are fully formed. The purpose
           of our preemptive actions will always be to eliminate a
           specific threat to our precious motd, our allies and friends.
           The reasons for our actions will be clear, the force
           measured, and the cause just."
           \_ soda crashed two or three times in the last couple weeks.
              I support kchang's squishing!
           \_ Wheee! Thanks for the laugh.
        \_ I for one do think kchang did a good job of archiving the
           motd. It's good to see that someone's willing to do some work
           to make my csua stay a little amuzing. too bad csua didn't like
           his finger. ;)
2004/8/10 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32815 Activity:nil
8/10    Lessig makes a good point about weakening fair use rights.
        http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.08/view.html?pg=5?tw=wn_tophead_6
        \_ FASCIST!  The fair use rights want to be free!
2004/8/10-12 [Uncategorized] UID:32816 Activity:low
8/10    I need to test that I can get mail from a machine that doesn't have
        a reverse ip entry.  Does anyone have a box without a PTR record
        that they could send me some mail from?  -crebbs
        \_ can't set up something on RC 1918 nets?
        \_ can't set up something on RFC 1918 nets?
        \_ So you want to block mail based on that criteria?  As if what?
           Spammers don't have valid reverse?  Most spam boxes do have a valid
           reverse.
            \_ i said i want to test that i *CAN* get mail.  jeesh. -crebbs
               \_ Can't you just break some of your DNS and generate
                  something without a PTR?
2004/8/10-12 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:32817 Activity:high
8/10    Where can I find the cheapest fare from here to Vancouver Canada?
        Travelocity gives me $200 for a roundtrip but I wonder if there are
        low fare or commuter airlines serving this route.
        \_  priceline.  I just got 180$ roundtrip fron nyc to oakland on
            priceline.
        \_ where is "here?"
           \_ Berkeley?
        \_ By the way, $200 non-stop from California to Vancouver is a
           good fare. How much less do you expect to pay?
           \_ I am hoping to get some thing just slightly above the fare
              between here and LA.  I thought maybe many people commute
              between bay area and Vancouver.  -- op
              \_ While I'm sure sales happen, I've never done better than 200.
              \_ You're not going to get a much better price. The dozens of
                 flights between Bay Area to LA especially those from low-fare
                 specialist Southwest make the market very competitive. The
                 SFBA <-> YVR is nowhere near that hot.
                 \_ How cheap do SFBA <-> LA tickets get?  What's typical?
                    -outofstater
                    \_ SWA has $39 one-way 7-day advance purchase regularly
                       and $98 day-of-purchase. Typical is about $75 one-way
                       with some advance notice.
           \_ I don't think any LCCC flies SFBA and YVR, so there is no
              reason for the fare to be low.  That said, I've done SFO-YVR
              for < $150 before.  That fare exists occasionally.  I noticed
              that UAL has a OAK-SEA fare for $123.  You can do that if you
              willing to drive to Vancouver.
              \_ Fares from here to SEA tend to be much cheaper than those to
                 YVR (among other things, YVR is a private airport, and I was
                 given to understand that the airport charges the airlines
                 substantially more than the average). Often the cheapest
                 option is flying to SEA and taking a bus (~3-4 hrs) to
                 Vancouver proper. If you want much cheaper than that...
                 Well, there's craigslist rideshare... and hitchhiking...
                 \_ YVR also charges passengers directly -- you have to pay
                    an "airport improvement fee" of 10 CAD every time you fly
                    from there to the US.
                 \_ RIDE BIKE!
                    \_ Well, it is only 140 miles.  It might be a pretty nice
                       bikeride, depending on the roads.  That's really pretty
                       countryside.
                       \_ I've driven it and it is mountainous. It would
                          take a long time on a bike.
2004/8/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32818 Activity:insanely high
8/10    Another Wash-Post quote by Kerry about being in
        Cambodia as a CIA agent.  WTF!??
        http://washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A59559-2003May30?language=printer
        \_ Your reading comprehension skills must be rather paltry.  His
           swift boat was responsible for taking agents and special forces
           upriver to drop them off.  The quote says nothing about him being
           in CIA.
           \_ "It was no accident that I got to be the caretaker of
              Colonel Walter E. Kurtz's memory - any more than being
              back in Saigon was an accident. There is no way to tell
              his story without telling my own. And if his story
              really is a confession, then so is mine."
           \_ Except his patrol area was Sa Dec, 50 miles from the border.
              \_ CIA mission led them furthest inland, they weren't sure
                 where they were.  Here you go:
                 http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200408101318.asp
                 If anything Kerry is guilty of boasting over a "secret mission
                 to Cambodia", where he probably did the drop off closer to
                 the border than other boats had.
                 \_ The part about not 'knowing where you are' is
                    bullshit.  I have personally navigated sea craft
                    from charts, its not hard.   If a commander or navigator
                    of a boat doesn't where he is he should be reprimanded.
                    Not to mention you don't randomly drop of CIA agents
                    if you don't know your location.
                    \_ You're right, he probably did know where he was:
                       Closer to the border than any other boat had been that
                       night, not in Cambodia, but it sure made a good story
                       to say "close enough!" and say he was, and then blame
                       Nixon for it (although he wasn't President at the time).
                       In any case, his buddy just wanted to back him up.
                    \_ Have you personally navigated seacraft in tricky
                       inland waterways at night, in the jungle, under
                       blackout condition? I kind of doubt it. The idea
                       blackout conditions? I kind of doubt it. The idea
                       that he was at least a bit lost is not outlandish.

                       And I can tell you from personal experience in the
                       Airborne, the military drops people miles off target
                       routinely. -ausman
                       \_ Were not talking about dropping someone from
                          an airplane.  Navigating a boat is significantly
                          different.  You are telling me they were lost
                          in the middle of the night and just decided
                          to willy-nilly continue in any arbitrary direction?
                          The riverways were heavily mined, it just doesn't
                          make any sense.
                          Just like the Bhuddist Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge
                          Cambodians were celebrating Christmas.
                          Face it - Kerry is lying.
                          \_ It was fun watching your "fact" about the Khmer
                             Rouge change.
                             \_ So you believe he engaged the Khmer Rouge?
                          \_ If anything it is easier to figure your
                             position in the air than in the jungle. I spent
                             three weeks in the Panamanain jungle and my unit
                             was pretty much lost the whole time. They don't
                             call them SNAFUs for nothing. Kerry might or
                             might not be lying, but I wouldn't be so
                             confident about it just yet.
        \_ wow i might actually read a url from the wash post - danh
        \_ DAMN THAT LIBERAL MEDIA!
        \_ Why does he keep on bragging about his war record when he said he's
           anti-war?  Trying to be a two-headed snake and please both sides?
           \_ What's anti-war about him saying he stands by his vote for
              authorizing force, and he would have had a plan to win the peace?
           \_ He is proud of his military service and record. he also came to
              believe the war itself was a bad idea (disagreed with top-level
              leadership). In the same way, we can support and respect our
              troops currently fighting in Iraq even if we disagree with the
              leadership that managed them and got them there.
        \_ Who are you going to believe, Patriotic Matt Drudge or the
           liberal media???
           lying liberal media???
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:10 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>