Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:December:29 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/12/29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:35465 Activity:high
        Conservatism, it is not only a trend, it is the future.
        \_ Make sure you read all the way to the end so you can see David
           Horowitz calling liberal professors "sissies".
        \_ "To many professors, there's a new and deeply troubling aspect
           to this latest chapter in the debate over academic freedom:
           students trying to dictate what they don't want to be taught."
           That's just beautiful... simply marvelous.  The liberal navelgazing.
           \_ My God, it's full of lint!
           \_ There are two institutions that try to protect and grow democracy
              without actually practicing it themselves: academia and the
              military. There are good reasons for this.
              \_ Yes, one is to indoctrinate the young with the propaganda
                 required by the state, the other is offer security to the
                 state. The former provides the cadre of youth to feed into
                 the latter.
              \_ I'm calling bullshit on this.  Academia doesn't "protect and
                 grow democracy".
                 \_ The more educated the populace, the more effective
                    democracy is.
                    \_ Wow, one unfounded assertion backing up another.  Sorry,
                       education is not always an improvement.  Many highly
                       educated people don't have much common sense.
                       \_ Nor did they have such before they became educated.
                          With education, however, there is the slightest
                          chance of improving understand and critical analysis;
                          without education, there is no such chance. As for
                          unfounded assertions, this is the motd, not usenet.
                          Expect less, and be disappointed less.
        \_ The lawsuit is something I agree w/. Why should an eng. student
           (not sure these people were eng.) have to read some book about
           the Koran? Total waste of time. If you are interested, then you
           should learn about it on your own a la psb. If not, the school
           should let you get on with your life (ie doing homework and
           playing counter-strike).
           \_ If you want field-specific education, consider vocational
              training.  A University-level education is supposed to expose
              your young mind to a variety of topics and opinions so that you
              will have more experience of the world around you.  Its success
              or failure, however, range wildly.
              \_ That's what the diverse student body is for, not one of
                 the core class requirements. The core class requirements
                 are supposed to teach you basic universal cognitive skills
                 so that when you go interview you know how to speak in
                 a coherent manner. Reading the Quran should be relegated
                 to things like Eastern Culture Studies or Theology.
                 If we make people read the Quran, why don't we make them
                 read the Bible then, or the Book of Mormon, or recite
              \_ WOW. You have really bought into all that humanities bs.
2004/12/29-30 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:35466 Activity:low
12/28   SF/Bay Area sodans, who are you using for cell phone service these
        days?  Is anyone actually happy with his service?(*)  Is there any
        particularly shiny cell phone hardware that you are fond of?  My
        incoming calls keep going straight to voicemail, message notifications
        arrive hours, if not days, late, so I'd like to switch from
        T-Mobile.(**) -dans
        (*)  Yes I realize that service quality varies wildly by location.
             I'd still like to hear individual experiences.
        (**) Yes I realize that there is effectively only one GSM carrier in
             Northern California
             \_ AT&T, cuz my family got this stupid deal on it. Have a
                cheapie Samsung phone. Reception is okay, but the phone
                sucks. AT&T voice mail sucks. I personally do not
                recommend. I used to have T-Mobile and a motorola, got
                decent reception, much better phone in terms of usage.
                Whatever you do, if you get a clamshell model get one
                with an external window to see who's calling you. The
                samsung I have doesn't even have that. Very, very annoying.
        \_ Try Verizon, I don't have it but haven't heard bad things. Except
           they don't seem to have as good deals.
           \_ I'm probably switching to Verizon (from AT&T) for the better
              service within a couple of weeks. Too bad their phone selection
              rather sucks compared to Cingular/AT&T or TMobile.
           \_ I have verizon now and the service is good except inside
              buildings.  quality really degrades. no signal at bart in sf.
              where as the cingular phone is great in sf bart.  however,
              cingular service cuts in and out everywhere.  same shitty
              service everywhere.  verizon is only shitty inside buildings,
              and of course the phone selection sux. depends what you need.
              \_ That's really a 'YMMV' issue.  Verizon uses a lower frequency
                 of radio waves than the others, so for technical reasons
                 should get better reception in buildings.  I've had
                 comparatively pretty good reception in buildings, but some
                 places it just doesn't work.  If you have weak reception on
                 top of a BART station, you'll have none inside one.  OTOH I've
                 gotten a decent signal in some BART stations or large
                 buildings or elevators where everyone else gets nothing.
                 From my unscientific survey of the SFBA, Verizon is a bit
                 better than Cingular, and WAY batter than TMo, but there are
                 some exceptions.
        \_ I currently have a Mot v60 and AT&T (not GSM). It is not bad,
           and I have decent coverage pretty much everywhere in the bay
           area.  Sometimes I have problems inside lecture halls, but
           this doesn't bother me too much b/c I don't really need cell
           phone access during class.
           In terms of shiny new cell phone hardware, I'm waiting for AT&T
           to intro the Treo 650 so that I can get a Treo 600 at a reduced
           \_ Verizon is the coverage king, with Cingular second.  Verizon is a
             bit more expensive, and has a lousy phone selection.  Sprint,
             T-Mobile, and Nextel all have inferior networks.  AT&T is part of
             Cingular now.  See also:
        \_ not in the bay area now, but as someone who used GSM exclusively
           in the US since about 1996 when coverage was very sparse, I
           should point out that your coverage experience has a lot to do
           w/ the specific phone model.  there are short term network
           problems w/ growth, where a cell is oversubscribed, but you can
           usually complain and get that resolved.  a sucky phone, however,
           always sucks.  i've had great luck w/ motorola phones w/ external
           antenna where other folks' whiz bang phone showed no signal.
2004/12/29 [Science/Disaster] UID:35467 Activity:high
12/28   There may have been military ships near the tsunami that will

        never be disclosed to civilians.  What effect would it have if within
        5 miles?  Nuclear Submarine?  Aircraft Carrier?  Would they have been
        \_ No, tsunamis don't really affect surface or underwater craft.
           \_ Yeah, actually it's very difficult for a surface craft (I
              don't know about subs, but probably the same) to even notice
              a tsunami went by.  The boat floats a little higher for a
              while, then goes back.  A tsunami is amplified when it
              reaches shallow water.  That's when it becomes dangerous.
              \_ Good answer.  More at:
2004/12/29 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:35468 Activity:moderate
12/28   Does anyone have a good (free) program for converting .ogg to
        .mp3?  Either for Linux or Windows.
        \_ CDex
        \_ Download the official Vorbis tools and then use oggdec + LAME.
           \_ Not recommended for Windows. On linux it's a one line perl script.
              \_ Why is this not recommended for Windows?  Can't you use a
                 one-line Perl (or even .bat) script there too?
                 \_ Because the Windows CLI is a piece of crap. Yes, you can
                    install cygwin, but by the time you go through the song
                    and dance of installing cygwin you could've already
                    converrted your ogg vorbis files to mp3 already with
                    CDex. Not only that, unlike Linux you can't simply
                    install an RPM/DEB or emerge in gentoo lame and oggdec.
                    You have to manually download each piece of software and
                    unzip it and path the directories correctly. It's just
                    a hassle. I mean, if you really want to write a batch
                    file go right ahead, but why bother?
2004/12/29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:35469 Activity:high
12/29   For those who think the US is stingy:
        "According to the American Association of Fundraising Counsel, we gave
        nearly $241 billion to charity last year and have increased our giving
        every year for the last 40 except for 1987.
        "Clearly, Americans are a generous people, and we are willing to spread
        our wealth outside the country. Last year Paula Dobriansky, State
        Department undersecretary for global affairs, reported 'Americans
        privately give at least $34 billion overseas annually.'"
        \_ The quote should say that the American govt is generous.  Unless
           it's put up to a vote of the people, you can't conclude that the
           people are generous.
        \_ I wonder how badly the weak dollar is hurting the recipients of this
           US aid.
        \_ And yet we lag behind many other countries in giving in terms of
           \_ And your source is?  My understanding is that is only cash
              transactions from our government to another government.  This
              private giving isn't tracked at all.
              \_ E'ist:
              \_ (economist)
                 Though looking at their source (
                 I'm going to stop talking.  Our numbers don't look too shabby.
        \_ "That does not include the $10 billion in official U.S. foreign
            aid, though it does include $18 billion in remittances immigrants
            send to their home countries."
           In other words, Americans send $16B overseas annually, though how
           much of that is charity is unclear.
        \_ yeah, I believe that. US is owned, controlled, and run by the
           Corporation and the people who run the Corporation, and the
           government is just a facade.
2004/12/29 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Law/Court] UID:35470 Activity:nil
12/29   Jerry Orbach RIP:
        \_ That man singlehandedly made Law&Order fun to watch.
2004/12/29 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:35471 Activity:nil
        Nuclear Capabilities May Elude Terrorists, Experts Say
        So why isn't Iran or North Korea mentioned at all?
2004/12/29-30 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:35472 Activity:nil
12/29   What do you guys do with your old laptops? I've been thinking
        that maybe I can reinstall it with Linux and write a program
        that displays home pictures, weather, and traffic data, then
        frame the LCD as to give an illusion that it's a picture and
        hang it on the wall. The only problem is how I would
        hide the keyboard and show only the LCD/frame. Maybe I can
        cut the dry wall and shove the unit in. Then there's the problem
        of detaching the LCD with the module. Anyone have experiences
        or thoughts on this?
2004/12/29-30 [Uncategorized] UID:35473 Activity:nil Edit_by:auto
12/29   Hello, my dad is beginning to have hard hearing and a lot of
        times I have to shout on the phone. I've heard that there are
        phones for the hearing impaired, but rather than increasing the
        volume (which will further help in degenerating the hearing),
        the phone "exaggerates" the pitch to give more crisp, clear
        intonations. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and
        where to try it in person, and maybe point URLs? ok thx.
        \_You should get him a bone-induction amp. Military uses them, don't
          know if they have civilian models.
        \_ (expensive shipping)
  (good price, decent shipping)
  (decent price, decent shipping)
2004/12/29-30 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:35474 Activity:nil
s12/29  I have random mov, mpeg, avi movies I want to burn to a DVD.  Can I
        use dvd shrink (never used it) to do this? What is the recommended
        way to make it work?
        \_ actually I have a similar question. We know the followings:
                VCD:~700M for ~60 min, 352x240
                DVD:4.7G for ~60 min, 720x480
           We know that a DVD contains approx 6-7X the size of a VCD.
           Can you actually copy MPG files from 6-7 VCDs and then
           burn it on a DVD, which shoulsd last 6-7 hours?
           \_ Yes.  If you do nothing else, you'll have 6-7 MPG files on
              your DVD, which will vary in accessibility depending on your
              DVD player.
           \_ Usually not.  A set-top DVD player would:
              1. Need to support MPEG1 video. (Which isn't uncommon, since
                 most can play VCDs.)
              2. Figure out how to find and navigate the various files you've
                 scattered around on your DVD.
        \_ No, DVD Shrink, not surprisingly, is used for shrinking existing
           DVDs.  It only does transcoding; it's not a general MPEG2 encoder,
           nor is it a general DVD authoring tool (which you'd need to make
           menus, chapter points, etc.).  I've heard good things about Nero
           Recode recently.  Look around the forums. --jameslin
2004/12/29 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:35475 Activity:nil
        Hmong hunter to use the insanity defense. I guess they didn't
        want to use the "Damn 4 eyed chink can't see and can't shoot,
        therefore you must acquit" defense as suggested by O'Reiley.
2004/12/29-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:35476 Activity:kinda low
12/29   Is there a command like 'tail' that will read a file backwards?
        Tail does not do what I want because of a limited buffer size. I
        want to read the *ENTIRE* file backwards. Less doesn't work because
        it relies on line numbers and the file is corrupted. (Essentially,
        I can read 1-n and n+EOF lines but n itself is corrupt.) More/less
        lets me read 1-n, but tail won't let me go back far enough.
        (tail -100000 and tail -3000 are equivalent because of the buffer)
        \_ you could pipe it through a perl script that reads the file
           backwards, i can write a multi line one, maybe one of the perl
           geeks around here will post a 1-liner.
           \_ Thanks! I found a PM called File::ReadBackwards that worked.
           \- hello, you can use the "tac" command or sed '1\!G;h;$\!d' --psb
              \_ Tac looks cool, but seems to be a Linuxism. It's not on
                 soda, for instance. (Yes, it could be ported.)
                 \-tac is a random hack that probably predates linux.
                   portability is why i added the sed cmd. --psb
        \_ if you use 'less +G' it doesn't actually try to figure out line
            numbers, it just goes to the end of the file. You can then scroll
            back ward normally. -ERic
            \_ I tried this and it did not work. I went to the end of the
               file, but when I tried to scroll back it attempted to
               calculate line numbers even when told not to.
2004/12/29 [Uncategorized] UID:35477 Activity:moderate
12/29   A while back I remember seeing a headline like "80% of outsourced
        projects fail", but now I can't find it.  Does anyone know what I'm
        talking about and have a link to the sory?
        \_ That's pretty funny.  Before outsourcing became big, I was reading
           that 80% of all (large) software projects fail.  I think it's also
           true that > 80% of any software project runs over budget and behind
           \_ Most likely it's from The Mythical Man Month, which has that
              direct statistic.
           \_ That's why I want to find that story--to revisit the details.
           \_ 99% of the women sodan males fantasize about wouldn't give them
              the time of day.  Actually, that's probably true of males in
              \_ 99% of the women we fantasize about are best left as
2004/12/29 [Health/Disease/General, Politics] UID:35478 Activity:insanely high
12/29   Another question, with so many people dead, how do they identify
        them if they don't carry any form of identification?  How many
        of the 80000 is identified?
        \_ They don't. A huge number of bodies are being buried in
           mass graves, in many cases being shoved in by a
           catterpillar truck, because they pose a serious disease
           threat. This is happening by the thousands.
           \_ May they rest in peace....
        \_ Part of the plea for help is for forensic experts and large
           refigeration units for jury-rigged morgues.
           \-i think dealing with the dead bodies is for human/psych/relig
             reasons, not as a source of disease. --psb
                \_ it's for all of those reasons. with tens of thousands
                   of dead bodies, infections are bound to be abundant.
                   \-this is not the primary source of infection. it is
                     fecal matter in water supply. this is not a case
                     of getting rid of the bodies of people who died of
                     an infectious disease [like in the black death or
                     ebola etc].
                     \_ It's also just common sense.  If there's 500 dead
                        dead bodies where you live, are you going to let them
                        sit in the equatorial sun for a week while you dig
                        individual graves?  No, you say a prayer and dump them
                        in a mass grave before the smell gets too horrid.
                        \_ So in other words, it's impossible to tell
                           who had actually died, because just counting
                           the bodies is even sometimes impossible. So I
                           guess if someone is missing, they will be
                           presumed dead unless they are found later? Sad...
                           \_ Note to self: Wait until tsunami hits to carry
                              out murders of people I don't like.  Spelling
                           \_ Note to self: Wait until tsunami hits to cary
                              out murders of people I don't like.  Speling
                              wanker in above entry first on list ...
2004/12/29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35479 Activity:very high
12/29   Some called the Bush administration's early reaction to the
        disaster in Asia a missed opportunity to show leadership at a
        time when the United States has been trying to build support
        for its "war on terror."  "I think politically they've done
        poorly," said Derek Mitchell, an expert in Asian affairs at
        the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International
        \_ I felt exactly the same when I saw the 15mil initial offering.
           \_ Me too.  It should have been $0 and we should have been informed
              where to send our donations.
        \_ The 35 million pales in comparison to Steve Job's annual bonus
           of about 90 million.
           \_ Are you complaining about Steve Jobs?  What's the relevance here?
        \_ socialism: you have two cows, and you give one to your
                starving neighbor. In the process, the middle man
                (government) takes 1/2 a chuck, and your neighbor's
                probably going to sell the other 1/2 to buy booz but
           US capitalism: you have two cows, and you loan one to your
                starving neighbor for an exorbitant interest rate. Fuck
                criticism, it's every man for himself.
2004/12/29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:35480 Activity:very high
12/29   Bush said. "But I am not a geologist, as you know." I just find
        this quote so funny... I guess he's not many things... hahaha.
        \_ All we ask is that he's a competent leader & commander-in-chief,
           and that is apperantly too much to ask already.
           \_ All that we ask is that a college graduate (from Berkeley, no
              less!) should know how to spell.  That is apparently too much
              to ask already.
                \_ This is the first time that I've been asked to have perfect
                   spelling in the motd ... And yet your request will have no
                   AFFECT! <-- Yes on purpose
                   \_ Hey, mental giant, did it occur to you that your
                      complaint about the competence of the CiC rings a
                      little hollow if you can't even be bothered to learn
                      to spell (!?) yourself?
                      \_ [ if you delete replies, your replies will get deleted ]
2004/12/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35481 Activity:nil
12/29   What was the time lag between when things started getting fucked up
        in Indonesia vs. Sri Lanka / India?  I would think news should
        travel pretty damn fast after 40K+ died in Indonesia.  I don't think
        this aspect has been covered at all (for some reason news only seems
        to be covering lack of ocean sensors - but you don't need ocean
        sensors to warn Sri Lanka / India once you've established thousands
        dying in Indonesia).
        \_ I agree news should have spread, but no one thought it was 40+
           thousand dead until days after.
           \_ You don't need 40K+ dying to tell the other countries.
              All you need are tsunamis hitting the shore and it being covered
              on TV as a news bulletin in Indonesia as well as other countries.
        \_ Umm... spread how?  If they didn't get the warning from the US
           through their governments, how would they get it from the
           people who were actually being hit by the tsunami?  Collective
           \_ Warnings about potential tsunamis since none have hit yet
              != Warnings about tsunamis that have already hit Indonesia
                 that could also hit other countries
              Let's say there is a 2 hour lag time between tsunamis hitting
              Indonesia vs. Sri Lanka / India.  This assumes 500 mph waves.
              Personally, I think it should take 30 minutes for this to hit
              radio + TV + Internet in Sri Lanka / India, 30 minutes more
              for people to run out to the coasts and say get the fuck away,
              with 1 hour of buffer time.
              I think lots of senior people fucked up and sat on the news
              for two or more hours.
              \_ I think you seriously underestimate what it means when a
                 very poor nation/area lacks infrastructure to deal with
                 this sort of crisis, both in terms of transmitting
                 information (esp after what little infrastructure just got
                 swept away by a tsunami) and in terms of receiving,
                 processing, disseminating, and then finally reacting.  This
                 is exacerbated when this lack of ability to react is coupled
                 with complacency and unpreparedness.  If the US had only 2
                 hours of warning before a large tsunami hit the eastern
                 seaboard, the loss of life would be staggering.
                 \_ Well, the least I want to suggest is that politicians
                    and other people in charge are blaming a lack of ocean
                    sensors, vs. assuming responsibility for not spreading
                    the news to local media.  How much does it take to say:
                    "Hey, play this on TV.  Tidal waves are hitting Indonesia.
                    It might hit us."  I think you overestimate the difficulty
                    of this.  You and a lot of people, too, which is why it is
                    not being covered.
                    \_ No, I don't overestimate the difficulty of making a
                       broadcast of this sort.  No need to be snippy.
                       \_ If you think I'm being snippy, perhaps you shouldn't
                          use the same phrasing.
                    \_ You must be the "why don't they just tread water for a
                       little while" guy, huh?
                    \_ Didn't this happen at 6/7 am local time? How many people
                        in those impoverished, remote villages would be
                        watching TV at that time? How many actually have
                       \_ Then why don't I see news reports talking about
                          what you're talking about?  All I see are "no ocean
                          sensors", not "no TVs / radios, everyone was asleep
2004/12/29 [Science/Disaster] UID:35482 Activity:high
12/29   How much time elapsed between the first tsunamis hitting Indonesia,
        and the first tsunamis hitting Sri Lanka / India?  I do realize there
        was very little time difference between the earthquake and tsunamis
        arriving at Indonesia. (Washington Post flash graphic)
        \_ Aceh province is in a state of civil war, so news was not
           allowed out.  Thus India and Sri Lanka and Thailand could
           not have gotten the news of the disaster there.  In fact,
           news of the disaster was covered better and earlier in
           India, Sri Lanka and Thailand than in Aceh until the last day
           or two.
           \_ Yes, thank you.  I have also rephrased the post to be much less
              ambiguous and trollish.
              \_ Uhm, huh?  Is that grace and courtesy on the motd?  I might
                 have to apologize for harshing on you previously.  But...
                 this...  It's the motd.  That's not supposed to happen....
2004/12/29-30 [Consumer/TV] UID:35483 Activity:nil
12/29   Check
        for list of free channels for US.  Some of the channels
        require the 1-meter/3-feet sized dish to receive.
        \_ so where do I get the dish and if I get it, will I receive ALL
           of the channels here? ok thx.
        \_ Hello FTA DVB experts, is this what I need to buy?
           What are the differences between the systems listed
           here and are there legal issues
           for receiving these free channels? Also, how do you find
           out how many Taiwanese channels I can receive? ok thx.
2004/12/29 [Science/Space] UID:35484 Activity:nil
12/29   I take back saying water isn't dangerous. I heard on the news
        tonight of a family in burma whose house, which was one MILE
        inland, filled with 5 feet of water. They then climbed onto
        their roof, which was 30 feet high, and soon the water was
        3 feet above their roof. That's a lot of water.
        \_ It's called an 'ocean' for a reason.
2004/12/29-30 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:35485 Activity:moderate
12/29   Need a degauser to erase stuff quickly. Anyone know of a good,
        relatively safe one that isn't too pricey?
        \_ Do you just need to erase magnetic media?  Something like
           SecureDelete might be a better solution (hint: degaussing doesn't
           delete your data as well as you might think).  See:
           \_ That's fine and all, but I've got to delete non-digital media
              as well. I guess I'll go to Radio Shack. I just don't want to
              get something that A) doesn't work or B) works so well that it
              erases my credit cards and USB sticks in my pocket. And
              security is not really that big of an issue, we will be
              re-using media...
                \_ err... can credit cards really be erased, I thought they
                   were just had UPC scan codes or something.
                   \_ Yes, they can.  If you work around high magnetic fields
                      (several Tesla), having your credit card get in the field
                      will make it stop working.  I don't know if the data
                      on it are totally erased, but I know you need a new
                      credit card.
        \_ sign up for a MRI scan and take the media to the inside.
2004/12/29 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:35486 Activity:very high
        Laser directed into jet's cockpit and "air traffic controllers
        used radar to determine the laser came from a residential area".
        How does the radar determine the source of the laser? They're
        totally different. Someone please explain.
        \_  I'm not saying this is what happened, but if these words were
            randomly formed out of thin air in the mind of some dingbat
            journalist it wouldn't be anywhere near the dumbest fiction
            I've read in the news.  If you go to and read
            various random links, the ones that mention the use of radar as
            you describe all have *identical* wording, while quite a few
            do not mention radar at all.  That's often a symptom of dingbat
            journalist syndrome.
        \_  If they knew where exactly the plane was when it got hit,
            and they knew what color the laser was, they could figure
            out how far away it was fired at the jet from, and could then
            figure out where it was fired from, approximately.
            \_ What does color have to do with it?
            \_ Obviously the only reasonable response is to bomb the
               residential area.  How many planes have to fall out of
               the sky before we let the airlines defend their property?
        \_ Perhaps they drew a straight line from the tail down through the
           nose of the plane.  The orientation is at the moment the pilots
           reported being painted.  The radar gives the position of the plane.
           The line intersects with the residential area.
2004/12/29-30 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Domestic] UID:35487 Activity:high
12/29   Hey MOTD -- I was hoping to buy a bottle of fine cognac or armagnac
        for a friend of wealth and taste.  I have a pretty generous budget, but
        I know next to nothing about either of these liquors.  Can anybody
        give me any recommendations, and/or point me toward a vendor of fine
        wine/spirits in the SF/BA (preferably in Castro Valley or San Mateo)?
        TIA.                   -mice
        \_ Check out D&M Liquor in San Francisco.  They specialize in
           Cognac and Armagnac with an *excellent* selection.
        \_ K&L Wine Merchants in SF or Redwood City
           \_ Gracias.    -mice
              \_ As a brief followup, I spoke with the Distilled Spirits
                 Department manager Susan Purnell, and she was really quite
                 knowledgeable and very, very helpful.  Thanks again for the
                 link.        -mice
        \_ Beverages and More also sells 'good stuff', but good luck finding a
           reccomendation there.
        \_ There are 3 grades of increasing price/quality, V.S., V.S.O.P., and
           X.O. (aka 'Napoleon').  Each individual maker's grade can differ a
           lot though.  (You can find crap cognac calling itself X.O.)
           The 3 biggest brands of Cognac, which you'll be 'safe' going with,
           are in no particular order Henessey, Courvosier, and Martell.
           \-i think one of the "high end" grand mariners is better than say
               the Hennesey XO.
        \_ It is hard to impress/please "a friend of wealth and taste" with
           something that as commmon to him/her as distilled water.  Why not
           showing off your skill in troff and m4?
           \_ This is true, which is why I opted to look for distilled
              alcohol rather than water (which has a rather simple and naive
              bouquet to even the most discerning palate).  Thanks for
              the suggestion, though.  I'll perhaps look into some nweaver-
              vintage lisp code as an alternative in case the alcohol thing
              doesn't work out.         -mice
2004/12/29 [Uncategorized] UID:35488 Activity:nil
12/29   njh: what's with ?
2004/12/29 [Finance/Banking] UID:35489 Activity:nil
        "Are We Stingy?  Yes"
2019/04/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:December:29 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>