shock-awe.info/archive/000858.php
As Tom Tomorrow has been documenting, Snopes - one of the most respected urban legend debunkers on the Web - has changed their story now that the rumor has been confirmed as being basically true . If you read the new Snopes page on the topic, they go out of their way to split hairs enough that they can conclude that one part of the rumor, out of four, is true, and the other three are false - but of course, you have to remember that they wrote the text of the debunked rumor themselves. Unlike nearly every other rumor on their site , they give no example of the rumor collected on the Internet. They dont cite the original source, which is their normal procedure. Whenever someone starts deviating from the normal procedure, something is up. Heres what they originally wrote about the rumor they labeled false: Claim: Two days after September 11 - while all other planes were grounded - a secret flight arranged by George W. Example: Collected on the Internet, 2002 BIN LADEN FAMILY ALLOWED TO FLY DURING GROUND STOPPAGE? Michael Moore was on the Daily Show on Comedy Central and alleged that when all the nations planes were grounded for 3 days after 9/11, the Bush Administration gave permission for a private Saudi jet to visit 5 cities to pick up around 20 members of the bin Laden family, over the objections of the FBI.
Based on this new restatement of the rumor, they are able to conclude that only 25 of it is true: To summarize the key components of this issue: The United States government allowed bin Laden family members to fly within the United States during a general ban on air travel: True. The United States government allowed bin Laden family members to fly out of the United States during a general ban on air travel: False. The flights carrying bin Laden family members out of the US took place over the objections of the FBI: False. The FBI was denied any opportunity to question departing bin Laden family members: False. But is the original rumor - the one they blasted Michael Moore for passing along - true? Two days after September 11 - while all other planes were grounded - a secret flight arranged by George W. Granted, this rumor is also the product of Snopes - but if you changed out of the USA to an undisclosed, secure location, it would be a correct statement . Snopes wont tell you that they were fundamentally wrong on this score, so instead theyll just twist the issue around by introducing new phrasings and straw men which they can they disprove. The new page, unlike the original Michael Moore bashfest, does not mention Michael Moores name at all, despite the fact that as of last week, they identified him as the primary source of this rumor. Oh, and by the way: The cached paged has vanished out of Google , as reported by both Tom Tomorrow and The Agonist . I have used Snopes as a reference on urban legends in the past, as generally they have done their homework. However, this whole incident raises serious, serious questions about their ethics and credibility. Their bashing of Moore appears blatantly partisan now that the truth is out, and the fact theyve avoided mentioning him to the point of not having an example of the rumor theyre debunking just casts them in a really bad light. Would it have been that hard for them to just fess up, say we blew it on this one, and apologize to Moore for their little screed against him? Until we see something of that sort from Snopes, their credibility rating is zero. Update: As Sean-Paul notes in the comments below, The Agonist has dug up an archived copy of the page .
He had had a page debunking the rumor that 4000 Israelis had skipped work at the WTC on 9/11, and cited Bushs claim that more than 130 Israelis were among the dead. I drew attention to a buried NY Times correction that the figure was more like three joint US-Israeli citizens, and instead of posting an honorable correction he simply removed the page and redirected the question to an old Slate article that got it wrong. Posted by: Jorn Barger at September 6, 2003 12:52 AM Permalink Oh my God, A web site made a mistake! I guess the bigger issue is that for once in his life Micheal Moore was right! I never understood why anybody could suport such a dishonist moron. Oh wait I forgot about Ann Culter, yep I guess both sides have there own morons. Derek Posted by: Derek at September 6, 2003 12:56 AM Permalink Jorn, Its Jews, not Israils that the nutty clame is about. Remember its all about the world wide Jewish comsperancyTM Microsoft. Derek Posted by: Derek at September 6, 2003 01:49 AM Permalink No, actually the claim IS about Israelis abandoning the WTC before the attacks, but only AFTER Mossad warned US intelligence in August of 2001 that an attack on the WTC was imminent. The Wall Street Journal lists former WTC tenants on their website, one company, Zim American-Israeli Shipping, BROKE their lease in the WTC one week before the 9-11 attack and moved to Norfolk Virginia. What is compelling is not that the Israelis were behind the attack, a red herring, but that Mossad and other international intelligence agencies including the Russians were warning the US about a probable attack and the Bush administration did nothing. Worse, the normal national defense procedures were stood down on that fateful day. Fighter jets were scrambled 10 minutes after his plane went off course. No planes were scrambled for 75 minutes after the FAA knew that 4 planes had been hijacked simultaneously on 9-11. Posted by: sic at September 6, 2003 06:27 AM Permalink Derek you twit! Its not just about a mistake, they were politically motivated to slam Moore and essentially say thing which were not true. And then instead of doing the decent thing and say, we were wrong they are trying to cover up their behaviour. Poo on them Posted by: Peter at September 6, 2003 08:24 AM Permalink Actually most of what Snopes has written about 9-11 has been biased and very jingoistic. Posted by: Ron at September 6, 2003 10:17 AM Permalink Note also that the citation from Moore that Snopes used to give as quoted by you above: Example: Collected on the Internet, 2002 - BIN LADEN FAMILY ALLOWED TO FLY DURING GROUND STOPPAGE? Michael Moore was on the Daily Show on Comedy Central and alleged that when all the nations planes were grounded for 3 days after 9/11, the Bush Administration gave permission for a private Saudi jet to visit 5 cities to pick up around 20 members of the bin Laden family, over the objections of the FBI.
Moore correctly recalls the article in the Berkley presentation more specifically, the domestic flying around while the flight ban was still in effect. He recalls it again on the Jon Stewart show, except that this time adding the part with bin ladens flying out of the country which is not well differentiated in respect to the ban on air travel. Theres only a slight pause in the sentence, so it could be construed as him claiming that the flying out of the country was still while under the flight ban. It was outrageous enough for them to be on one of the first planes out of USA after the ban was lifted, having been whisked, before the ban was lifted for mere mortals, flying accross the US - from Los Angeles to Orlando, then on to Washington, and finally to Boston. Now we see that this article in the New Yorker was probably correct in stating the facts which Moore brought to our attention back then. Shame on Snopes for redefining what their debunking was back then, and weaseling out of admitting Jane Maher, as recalled by Michael Moore, was right.
This is what the web is for - getting a clearer picture of the often murky truth. Posted by: Charles at September 6, 2003 03:44 PM Permalink Excellent stuff all around. This is what the web is for - getting a clearer picture of the often murky truth. Posted by: Charles at September 6, 2003 03:45 PM Permalink I have no problem with snopes getting information wrong. What I do have a problem with is anybody who makes an error and does not acknowledge it. Magazines at least print retractions even for little errors like incorrectly identifying a photo. Snopes could have tagged a correction statement at the end of the article or sai...
|
http://csua.com/feed/