Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:March:02 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/3/2 [Science/Space] UID:12480 Activity:very high
3/2     There was water on Mars!  http://www.jpl.nasa.gov
        \_ chances are good that an ice comets hit mars several
           times over so why is this such a surprise?
           \_ The levels and prevelence of water-formed minerals they're
           \_ The levels and prevalence of water-formed minerals they're
              talking about would not be from a few a few comets.
              \_ don't expect anyone to actually read a link before posting
                 on the motd.  this is like slashdot where the less someone
                 knows the more likely they are to mouth off.
2004/3/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:12481 Activity:high
3/2     Can any car/bike racing enthusiasts recommend which nearby track is
        better (i.e., Laguna Seca vs. Sears Pt)?
        \_ Don't forget Thunderhill
           \_ Is that a recommendation?
        \_ Thunderhill is the one I would recommend if you are running
           and not just watching.  It is a great place to learn and
           has a lot of run off room.
           \_ seconded. Thunderhill is cheaper than Laguna Seca, and
              safer than Sears/Infineon. --jwang, ex-AFM#911

e/2     Today is super tuesday.  Don't forget to vote.  Here's the obPoll:
        Kerry:            .. (lemmings)
        Kerry:            ... (lemmings)  <-- whatever
        Edwards:          .
        Kucinich:         ..
        Sharpton:         .
        Neither:          ..
        yes on prop 55:   .....
        no on prop 55:    ..
        yes on prop 56:   ...
        no on prop 56:    ...
        yes on prop 57:   ..
        no on prop 57:    ...
        yes on prop 58:   ..
        no on prop 58:    ....
        yes on Measure 2: .
        no on Measure 2:  .
        tired of polls:   ..
        don't care:       .
           \_ not so.  there are several other very important issues on there
              even if you think the primary is over.
        \_ votes formatted not because I'm anal, but because I'm so incredibly
           bored.  :-)
        \_ No open primaries this year.   This sucks if you are an independent
           but want to actually have a say in what your choices for the
           prez vote are.
           \_ You can still vote for Nader...
           \_ If you want to have a say, you should have registered as a Dem
              for this election, then switched back before November. If you
              can't figure out how to game the system, you have no place
              whining about it.
           \_ Not true. You can request a Democrat ballot if you want. I
              am an independent and I voted for a Democrat in the primary.
           \_ Yeah, those damn parties thinking they should base the primary on
              who the party members choose...
              \_ Let the parties hold their own elections then instead of
                 having the government foot the bill.
           \_ The independent in front of me in line asked for a republican
              ballot.  There's nothing contested in any election for the
              republicans.  Why would he ask for that instead of the democrat
              ballot where he can make a difference?
        \_ Which prop is about raising the bridge tolls?  I'm so ignorant.
           \_ Measure 2, comes with good things and bad things.
              Translink would be great, but ferries are a waste of money
              as is extending BART to Byron.
              \_ The problem with M2 is it raises the bridge toll but uses the
                 funds for many other unrelated projects.  So it taxes a small
                 number of people but asks a larger number of people if it is
                 ok to tax that smaller number for the larger group's benefit
                 without cost to that larger group.  This is the worst form of
                 taxation possible.  I voted against it merely on those grounds
                 even though we need to improve the transit system.  And no, I
                 don't drive the bay bridge regularly.  Maybe twice a year.
              \_ I agree that ferries suck, but BART builds slowly and it makes
                 sense to build in the direction of future growth, which is
                 to the east.
                 \_ BART is a ridiculous boondoggle, far too expensive and
                    slow to cover the distances it's trying to cover.  The
                    more we extend BART, the longer it will be until we have
                    a decent transit system in the Bay Area.  That said, I
                    begrudgingly voted for RM2.  -tom
                    \_ Slow?  32min from Hayward to downtown SF during morning
                       commute hours seems pretty fast to me.  Can't beat that
                       even if you're carpooling with two passenges.
                       \_ you *can* beat that if you're using a train system
                          in any major city in Europe or Japan.  And the ride
                          from Byron is likely to be more than an hour.  -tom
                          \_ How often do those train systems stop?  Thanks.
                             Let's get some apples/apples here.  Put away the
                             oranges.
                             \_ Heavy-rail systems with stops at similar
                                distance to East Bay BART are much, much
                                faster; top speeds 50-100% higher than BART.
                                In dense areas, systems like the London
                                Underground do just as well in comparison.
                                   -tom
                                \_ And cost how much?  Are you seriously saying
                                   we should replace BART with a new system
                                   that will cost more to run and run louder
                                   through all the neighborhoods?
                                   \_ No system will cost more to run than
                                      BART--standard rail costs quite a bit
                                      less than non-standard rail.  And have
                                      you ever actually been to another
                                      country?  The trains are quieter than
                                      BART.  -tom
                                      \_ Have you ever been to New York?
                                         You don't have to go to another
                                         country to beat BART.
                                         \_ NY is much better than BART, but
                                            it's not particularly fast or
                                            quiet.  -tom
                          \_ How many trains have to go by before you can be
                             pushed into one in the Tokyo area?
                             \_ let me get this straight--BART is better
                                because it's really slow, so no one uses it,
                                so the trains aren't as crowded? -tom
                                \_ No, more like people use trains because the
                                   population density is so insanely high they
                                   live like rats.  Is that what you want?
                       \_ How long does it take to get to the station and find
                          parking in the morning?
                          \_ There are always more than a hundred empty spaces
                             in the parking structure even at 9am everyday.
                             \_ Which parking lot are you at?  If I'm not there
                                by 8:30, it's completely filled.
                       \_ 32 minutes?  I'm a bit further out on that line and
                          it isn't 32 minutes for that part of it.
                       \_ Glen Park BART is 12 minutes to Montgomery, which
                          is faster than you can drive that route on a fast
                          motorcycle. I know, I have tried. -ausman
              \_ How is a proposition different from a measure?
                 \_ Prop=Statewide, Measure [1-9]=County, Measure [A-Z] = City
        \_ Why are they trying to fund healthcare with a sales tax increase?
           It's regressive taxation and falls whenever the economy is in
           trouble.  Not to mention it harms the local economy more than an
           income or property tax because it's easier for people to shop
           somewhere else than to move or change jobs.
           \_ Because nothing but a sales tax increase will ever pass county
              wide. Any policymaker worth their spit would prefer an income or
              property tax but they are generally impossible to pass in CA.
              \_ with good reason.  taxes are already too high.
           \_ Where are they trying to do this?
              \_ Alameda county.  Proposed sales tax increase to 8.75%
                 It's a worthy cause, being funded in one of the most ass-ways
                 possible.
        \_ So for the "yes on 55" folks, why do you want to add a $12B bond
           with $12B interest to the CA finance mess?
           \_ Because it is an investment for the future, because I think
              education is usually money well spent, because CA spends less
              than it should on education, because we are in a recession
              and I believe in Keynesian economics. Yeah, I know we will
              probably not still be in a recession by the time the money
              is spent, but the CA finance mess is not a good reason to
              not spend money on worthy causes, since the economy will
              be better sooner or later, probably sooner.
              \_ We already spend more on education/pupil than most states
                 and get the least for it.  Education doesn't need more money.
                 It needs a structural overhaul.
                 \_ Somewhat untrue:  Education in CA needs more money AND
                    they need to spend it more wisely.
                    \_ I don't think it's a case of "spend it more wisely" but
                       restructure the entire educational system.  The people
                       in charge from the top all the way down plus the
                       teacher's unions all have to go.  Until that happens,
                       no amount of money will improve CA education.
                 \_ Wrong. California ranks 33rd in per pupil spending. We
                    spend like a poor Southern state and wonder why we get
                    crappy results. CA needs to spend more on schools.
                    http://www.edsource.org/sch_expend.cfm
                    \_ Dump the illegals and then recalculate, or get a chart
                       that shows absolute numbers which your chart is hiding
                       or better yet, do both.
              \_ Prop 55 includes a $300m grant to build more charter schools.
                 On this basis alone, I cannot, in good conscience, support
                 it.
              \_ Building schools makes no sense when the kids at the
                 current schools don't even have books or teachers. This
                 is money poorly spent in the name of education.
        \_ For the "yes on 56" folks, why do you want to lower the number of
           legislators needed to increase taxes to 55% from 2/3?
           \_ The state budget has been in chaos over not being able to return
              tax rates to an equitable level. Giving the legistature the
              ability to actually do their job sounds like a good idea, unless
              you are one of the many in CA who doesn't like paying for what we
              have here.
              \_ If you paid the taxes *I* pay you'd think they're already too
                 high.  Go get a real job and pay that shit yourself for a few
                 years and we'll see what you think "equitable" looks like.
              \_ I for one think welfare queens should start paying their fair
                 share.
                 \_ What percentage of the state budget is spent by your
                    so-called "welfare queens"? Do you even know?
              \_ I already pay more than my share for what "we" have here.
                 \_ If you really fell that way, why not leave?
                    \_ The weather which is not something improved by increased
                       taxes.
           \_ Because it only takes 51% to lower them.
              \_ Is that true?  I thought *all* tax legislation had to be
                 passed by the same amount.
              \_ and when was the last time your state taxes were lowered?
                 \_ It's sad how easy y'all get brainwashed by right wing talk
                    radio.
                    \_ When was the last time taxes were lowered?
                 \_ Last fall, by Herr Gropenator.
                    \_ Case in point.  Look for a reference to a "car tax"
                       before, oh, '96.
                    \_ No taxes were lowered by the Governor.
                http://www.igs.berkeley.edu/library/htCAVehicleLicense2003.html
                       \_ I wonder how it feels to be you and be wrong about
                          everything, all the time.
                          \_ I see a fee being lowered after it was raised
                             earlier.  Where is your tax?  Do you think I was
                             unaware of the VLF being lowered?  You're not even
                             remotely as clever as you think you are.
                 \_ In real dollars, property taxes go down every day.  Thanks,
                    prop 13.
                    \_ Until you move.
                    \_ Yes, thanks prop 13 or I couldn't afford to own a home.
                       My parents would already be in the street.
                       \_ Prop 13 doesn't do anything to help new homeowners;
                          it only helps people with hundreds of thousands of
                          dollars of equity in their homes keep from
                          contributing to the community.  The idea of people
                          losing their homes over property taxes is a myth.
                          \_ A myth?  I was here and saw it happen.  It is
                             real life to me, not some history book lesson.
                             I lived in pre-prop 13 CA.  Did you?
                             \_ Yeah, I was here too. We used to have good
                                schools before Prop 13 dried up the revenue
                                for them. CA has been on a slow downward
                                spiral ever since it was passed.
                                \_ Yeah, the state was better bankrupting
                                   families so they'd leave and take their kids
                                   with them.  Who wants to spend money
                                   educating all those middle class kids?
                          \_ Uh huh. Without Prop 13 my taxes would be up
                             40% over the last two years. Since they are
                             already $5K now that's another $2K. I wouldn't
                             lose my house, but I'd suffer. Eventually, I
                             might lose my house if the taxes double/triple.
                             \_ So? Suffer away. It's market economics. You
                                could always move instead. Also, without prop
                                13 the burden would be spread everywhere.
                                \_ It's not market economics. What good
                                   does it do me if my house is worth 20x
                                   what it used to be? I should pay tax on it
                                   when I sell and not before, like with stock.
                                   \_ I think Mr. I Hate Prop 13 is just a
                                      bitter apartment dweller who gets off
                                      every night thinking tomorrow will be the
                                      day the housing bubble bursts and he can
                                      finally afford a house.
                                   \_ property taxes pay for the services which
                                      support the value of your house, like
                                      police, fire, and roads.  The analogy to
                                      stocks is totally missing the point.
                                        -tom
                                      \_ So if my house is worth 20x what
                                         my neighbor's house is worth then
                                         I should pay 20x more for this?
                                         \_ I think so. -!tom
                                            \_ Even if it doesn't cost 20x to
                                               supply services to his house?
                                               He uses the same amount of road,
                                               fire, police and other services.
                                               His more expensive house does
                                               not put a bigger drain on the
                                               local services.  Let me guess,
                                               you're not a home owner and
                                               don't work yet, either?
                                               \_ I am a homeowner, and have
                                                  been working for 15 years.
                                                  Try again, anonymous coward.
                                                   -tom
                                                  \_ You 'work' for UC and live
                                                     in Oakland.
                                                     \_ How do either of these
                                                        points matter to the
                                                        discussion?  And why
                                                        do you put "work" in
                                                        quotation marks?
                                                        Because I didn't get
                                                        laid off with the
                                                        rest of the dotbombers?
                                                          -tom
                                         \_ How much more will you lose if
                                            your block goes up in flames? Or
                                            if property values crash because
                                            of high crime and shitty schools?
                                             -tom
                                            \_ He's getting the same service as
                                               the shitty house next door. Will
                                               the local fire department make
                                               his fire a priority when both
                                               houses catch fire at the same
                                               time?  Not a chance.  Will the
                                               cop go to his house first? Nope.
                                               \_ You didn't address my point.
                                                  If property values drop by
                                                  50%, Mr. Expensive House will
                                                  lose a lot more money than
                                                  Mr. Cheap House; therefore,
                                                  Mr. Expensive House has
                                                  more personal interest in
                                                  services which support
                                                  property values.  -tom
                                                  \_ You think this
                                                     relationship is linear?
                                                     When the house price
                                                     doubles, does the cost
                                                     of these services also
                                                     double?
           \_ Because it is past time that California raised its taxes.
              \_ no its past time California lowered its expendatures.
                 \_ Okay, where? (And no, deleting my question does not count
                    as a win.)
                    \_ I wasn't here when your question was deleted.  Where?
                       2 things for starters: revamp the educational system,
                       and stop spending money on illegal aliens, then we'll
                       have a chance to see what The People's real needs are
                       and go from there.
                       \_ California already spends less on education than
                          most states. This has been the case for a very
                          long time.
                          \_ I didn't say spend less.  I said revamp.  The
                             entire system is broken and needs to be redone.
                       \_ illegal alien is a federal issue, not state one.
                          I think it's unfair to ask California to bear the
                          burden of Federal government's failure to guard its
                          borders.
        \_ None of this really matters as long as the e-voting machines can be
           shown to be easily compromised and voters are not required to show
           ID in order to vote.  Aargh!
           \_ I had to show ID this morning.
              \_ Where did you vote? (City, County)
                 \_ Dublin.  They asked everyone for ID.
           \_ When I was voting this morning I saw an old person asking about
              paper receipts and audit trails.  It made me happy.
              \_ In San Francisco, we vote by filling in lines with a pen on
                 a piece of paper, which is then read by an optical scanner.
                 This seems like an ideal solution - not prone to error or
                 fraud, easy to understand for everyone, leaves a permanent
                 record for recount, and not labor intensive for the precincts.
                 Why do other counties insist on using such awful solutions
                 like Diebold?
                 \_ Who keeps the piece of paper, the voter or the polling
                    station?  If it's the voter, this system is highly
                    vulnerable to verifiable vote-selling.  If it's put in
                    a lock-box at the polling place, you're in much better
                    shape.
                    \_ The actual ballot with the pen markings is fed into
                       the optical scanner by the voter themselves - after this
                       it is locked away for safekeeping.  The voter keeps
                       only the receipt torn from the top of the sheet.
                       See here:
                       http://www.fairvote.org/administration/votetech.htm
                       Scroll down to "optical scanning."
                       \_ Wow, that rocks!  Thank you!  Now if only Alameda
                          County would implement this.
2004/3/2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:12482 Activity:very high
3/2     Does anyone know how long can you drive with an expired vehicle
        registration sticker?  This morning I realized my car has an expired
        Feb sticker, and I wonder if I will get ticketed.  But I paid
        registration fee but haven't received the sticker.
        \_ I had a friend who had Michigan tags that were expired for
           more than a year. He got pulled over, ticketed for speeding
           but the cop never realized that he had expired tags. I'm
           not sure they're that observant.
        \_ until you get caught.  Youmay be able to argue that it is paid
           and only get a fix-it ticket for not having the sticker.
        \_ I went all of last year without one (had it but put it on in
           February, after it expired) and I still don't have one for this
           year.  I've been pulled over once for speeding but the cop said
           nothing.  It's an old car, maybe they're taking pity on me?
        \_ you can drive as long as you want, but you're eligible to be
           ticketed the instant it expires.  if it's expired for more
           than 6 months, they can impound your car if they want to.
        \_ Same situation happened to me and I got pulled over for speeding.
           Cop can look up your registration and verify it's paid. Still got
           the speeding ticket though.
        \_ I always pay late. You can avoid the ticket up to a couple months
           in but after a while the cops and esp. chp get anal about it.
           If you don't drive on the highway much you might be able to
           get away with it. However, your car might be missing if you
           leave it on the street and they decide to tow.
        \_ In California, it's standard practice to get one month's grace.
           If your sticker says FEB, it's policy to ticket you on April 1.
           Parking enforcement left two tickets for me over two weeks in L.A.,
           but they also make a business of ticketing residents who park on
           the wrong side of the street during street-cleaning days.
        \_ Depending on the city they will pull you over just for expired tags,
           I have gotten tickets in SJ and Castro Valley.  -oj
           I have gotten fix-it tickets in downtown SJ and Castro Valley,
           from a cop who was directly behind me when I was stopped at a light.

e/2     Today is super tuesday.  Don't forget to vote.  Here's the obPoll:
        Kerry:   ..
        Kerry:   .. (lemmings)
        Edwards: .
        Kucinich: ..
        Sharpton: .
        Neither: .
        yes on prop 55: .....
        no on prop 55:  .
        yes on prop 56: ...
        no on prop 56:  ..
        yes on prop 57: ..
        no on prop 57:  ...
        yes on prop 58: .
        no on prop 58:  ....
        tired of polls: .
        \_ Don't care -- the primary have already been decided so there's no
           more point in voting.
        don't care: .
        \_ No open primaries this year.   This sucks if you are an independent
           but want to actually have a say in what your choices for the
           prez vote are.
           \_ Not true. You can request a Democrat ballot if you want.
           \_ You can still vote for Nader...
           \_ If you want to have a say, you should have registered as a Dem
              for this election, then switched back before November. If you
              can't figure out how to game the system, you have no place
              whining about it.
           \_ Not true. You can request a Democrat ballot if you want. I
              am an independent and I voted for a Democrat in the primary.
           \_ Yeah, those damn parties thinking they should base the primary on
              who the party members choose...
              \_ Let the parties hold their own elections then instead of
                 having the government foot the bill.
        \_ Don't care -- the primary have already been decided so there's no
           more point in voting.
        \_ Odd...my poll responses were overwritten.  Or maybe the censor is
           enforcing the fact that nobody cares?
        \_ Which prop is about raising the bridge tolls?  I'm so ignorant.
           \_ Measure 2, comes with good things and bad things.
              Translink would be great, but ferries are a waste of money
              as is extending BART to Byron.
              \_ I agree that ferries suck, but BART builds slowly and it makes
                 sense to build in the direction of future growth, which is
                 to the east.
              \_ How is a proposition different from a measure?
                 \_ Prop=Statewide, Measure [1-9]=County, Measure [A-Z] = City
        \_ Why are they trying to fund healthcare with a sales tax increase?
           It's regressive taxation and falls whenever the economy is in
           trouble.  Not to mention it harms the local economy more than an
           income or property tax because it's easier for people to shop
           somewhere else than to move or change jobs.
           \_ Because nothing but a sales tax increase will ever pass county
              wide. Any policymaker worth their spit would prefer an income or
              property tax but they are generally impossible to pass in CA.
           \_ Where are they trying to do this?
              \_ Alameda county.  Proposed sales tax increase to 8.75%
                 It's a worthy cause, being funded in one of the most ass-ways
                 possible.
        \_ So for the "yes on 55" folks, why do you want to add a $12B bond
           with $12B interest to the CA finance mess?
           \_ Because it is an investment for the future, because I think
              education is usually money well spent, because CA spends less
              than it should on education, because we are in a recession
              and I believe in Keynesian economics. Yeah, I know we will
              probably not still be in a recession by the time the money
              is spent, but the CA finance mess is not a good reason to
              not spend money on worthy causes, since the economy will
              be better sooner or later, probably sooner.
              \_ Prop 55 includes a $300m grant to build more charter schools.
                 On this basis alone, I cannot, in good conscience, support
                 it.
              \_ Building schools makes no sense when the kids at the
                 current schools don't even have books or teachers. This
                 is money poorly spent in the name of education.
        \_ For the "yes on 56" folks, why do you want to lower the number of
           legislators needed to increase taxes to 55% from 2/3?
           \_ The state budget has been in chaos over not being able to return
              tax rates to an equitable level. Giving the legistature the
              ability to actually do their job sounds like a good idea, unless
              you are one of the many in CA who doesn't like paying for what we
              have here.
              \_ I for one think welfare queens should start paying their fair
                 share.
                 \_ What percentage of the state budget is spent by your
                    so-called "welfare queens"? Do you even know?
              \_ I already pay more than my share for what "we" have here.
                 \_ If you really fell that way, why not leave?
                    \_ Ah. "Love it or leave it." If they make me pay even
                       more for what "we" have then maybe I will. Lots of
                       Californians are.
           \_ Because it only takes 51% to lower them.
              \_ Is that true?  I thought *all* tax legislation had to be
                 passed by the same amount.
              \_ and when was the last time your state taxes were lowered?
                 \_ It's sad how easy y'all get brainwashed by right wing talk
                    radio.
                 \_ Last fall, by Herr Gropenator.
                    \_ Case in point.  Look for a reference to a "car tax"
                       before, oh, '96.
                 \_ In real dollars, property taxes go down every day.  Thanks,
                    prop 13.
                    \_ Until you move.
           \_ Because it is past time that California raised its taxes.
              \_ no its past time California lowered its expendatures.
                 \_ Okay, show me where.
        \_ None of this really matters as long as the e-voting machines can be
           shown to be easily compromised and voters are not required to show
           ID in order to vote.  Aargh!
           \_ When I was voting this morning I saw an old person asking about
              paper receipts and audit trails.  It made me happy.
              \_ In San Francisco, we vote by filling in lines with a pen on
                 a piece of paper, which is then read by an optical scanner.
                 This seems like an ideal solution - not prone to error or
                 fraud, easy to understand for everyone, leaves a permanent
                 record for recount, and not labor intensive for the precincts.
                 Why do other counties insist on using such awful solutions
                 like Diebold?
                 \_ Who keeps the piece of paper, the voter or the polling
                    station?  If it's the voter, this system is highly
                    vulnerable to verifiable vote-selling.  If it's put in
                    a lock-box at the polling place, you're in much better
                    shape.
                    \_ The actual ballot with the pen markings is fed into
                       the optical scanner by the voter themselves - after this
                       it is locked away for safekeeping.  The voter keeps
                       only the receipt torn from the top of the sheet.
                       See here:
                       http://www.fairvote.org/administration/votetech.htm
                       Scroll down to "optical scanning."
                       \_ Wow, that rocks!  Thank you!  Now if only Alameda
                          County would implement this.
2004/3/2 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:12483 Activity:very high
3/2     Today is super tuesday.  Don't forget to vote.  Here's the obPoll:
        Kerry:            .. (lemmings)
        Edwards:          .
        Kucinich:         ..
        Sharpton:         .
        Neither:          ..
        yes on prop 55:   .....
        no on prop 55:    ..
        yes on prop 56:   ...
        no on prop 56:    ...
        yes on prop 57:   ..
        no on prop 57:    ...
        yes on prop 58:   ..
        no on prop 58:    ....
        yes on Measure 2: .
        no on Measure 2:  .
        tired of polls:   ..
        don't care:       .
           \_ not so.  there are several other very important issues on there
              even if you think the primary is over.
        \_ votes formatted not because I'm anal, but because I'm so incredibly
           bored.  :-)
        \_ No open primaries this year.   This sucks if you are an independent
           but want to actually have a say in what your choices for the
           prez vote are.
           \_ You can still vote for Nader...
           \_ If you want to have a say, you should have registered as a Dem
              for this election, then switched back before November. If you
              can't figure out how to game the system, you have no place
              whining about it.
           \_ Not true. You can request a Democrat ballot if you want. I
              am an independent and I voted for a Democrat in the primary.
           \_ Yeah, those damn parties thinking they should base the primary on
              who the party members choose...
              \_ Let the parties hold their own elections then instead of
                 having the government foot the bill.
           \_ The independent in front of me in line asked for a republican
              ballot.  There's nothing contested in any election for the
              republicans.  Why would he ask for that instead of the democrat
              ballot where he can make a difference?
        \_ Which prop is about raising the bridge tolls?  I'm so ignorant.
           \_ Measure 2, comes with good things and bad things.
              Translink would be great, but ferries are a waste of money
              as is extending BART to Byron.
              \_ The problem with M2 is it raises the bridge toll but uses the
                 funds for many other unrelated projects.  So it taxes a small
                 number of people but asks a larger number of people if it is
                 ok to tax that smaller number for the larger group's benefit
                 without cost to that larger group.  This is the worst form of
                 taxation possible.  I voted against it merely on those grounds
                 even though we need to improve the transit system.  And no, I
                 don't drive the bay bridge regularly.  Maybe twice a year.
              \_ I agree that ferries suck, but BART builds slowly and it makes
                 sense to build in the direction of future growth, which is
                 to the east.
                 \_ BART is a ridiculous boondoggle, far too expensive and
                    slow to cover the distances it's trying to cover.  The
                    more we extend BART, the longer it will be until we have
                    a decent transit system in the Bay Area.  That said, I
                    begrudgingly voted for RM2.  -tom
                    \_ Slow?  32min from Hayward to downtown SF during morning
                       commute hours seems pretty fast to me.  Can't beat that
                       even if you're carpooling with two passenges.
                       \_ you *can* beat that if you're using a train system
                          in any major city in Europe or Japan.  And the ride
                          from Byron is likely to be more than an hour.  -tom
                          \_ How often do those train systems stop?  Thanks.
                             Let's get some apples/apples here.  Put away the
                             oranges.
                             \_ Heavy-rail systems with stops at similar
                                distance to East Bay BART are much, much
                                faster; top speeds 50-100% higher than BART.
                                In dense areas, systems like the London
                                Underground do just as well in comparison.
                                   -tom
                                \_ And cost how much?  Are you seriously saying
                                   we should replace BART with a new system
                                   that will cost more to run and run louder
                                   through all the neighborhoods?
                                   \_ No system will cost more to run than
                                      BART--standard rail costs quite a bit
                                      less than non-standard rail.  And have
                                      you ever actually been to another
                                      country?  The trains are quieter than
                                      BART.  -tom
                                      \_ Have you ever been to New York?
                                         You don't have to go to another
                                         country to beat BART.
                          \_ How many trains have to go by before you can be
                             pushed into one in the Tokyo area?
                             \_ let me get this straight--BART is better
                                because it's really slow, so no one uses it,
                                so the trains aren't as crowded? -tom
                                \_ No, more like people use trains because the
                                   population density is so insanely high they
                                   live like rats.  Is that what you want?
                       \_ How long does it take to get to the station and find
                          parking in the morning?
                          \_ There are always more than a hundred empty spaces
                             in the parking structure even at 9am everyday.
                             \_ Which parking lot are you at?  If I'm not there
                                by 8:30, it's completely filled.
                       \_ 32 minutes?  I'm a bit further out on that line and
                          it isn't 32 minutes for that part of it.
                       \_ Glen Park BART is 12 minutes to Montgomery, which
                          is faster than you can drive that route on a fast
                          motorcycle. I know, I have tried. -ausman
              \_ How is a proposition different from a measure?
                 \_ Prop=Statewide, Measure [1-9]=County, Measure [A-Z] = City
        \_ Why are they trying to fund healthcare with a sales tax increase?
           It's regressive taxation and falls whenever the economy is in
           trouble.  Not to mention it harms the local economy more than an
           income or property tax because it's easier for people to shop
           somewhere else than to move or change jobs.
           \_ Because nothing but a sales tax increase will ever pass county
              wide. Any policymaker worth their spit would prefer an income or
              property tax but they are generally impossible to pass in CA.
              \_ with good reason.  taxes are already too high.
           \_ Where are they trying to do this?
              \_ Alameda county.  Proposed sales tax increase to 8.75%
                 It's a worthy cause, being funded in one of the most ass-ways
                 possible.
        \_ So for the "yes on 55" folks, why do you want to add a $12B bond
           with $12B interest to the CA finance mess?
           \_ Because it is an investment for the future, because I think
              education is usually money well spent, because CA spends less
              than it should on education, because we are in a recession
              and I believe in Keynesian economics. Yeah, I know we will
              probably not still be in a recession by the time the money
              is spent, but the CA finance mess is not a good reason to
              not spend money on worthy causes, since the economy will
              be better sooner or later, probably sooner.
              \_ We already spend more on education/pupil than most states
                 and get the least for it.  Education doesn't need more money.
                 It needs a structural overhaul.
                 \_ Somewhat untrue:  Education in CA needs more money AND
                    they need to spend it more wisely.
                    \_ I don't think it's a case of "spend it more wisely" but
                       restructure the entire educational system.  The people
                       in charge from the top all the way down plus the
                       teacher's unions all have to go.  Until that happens,
                       no amount of money will improve CA education.
                 \_ Wrong. California ranks 33rd in per pupil spending. We
                    spend like a poor Southern state and wonder why we get
                    crappy results. CA needs to spend more on schools.
                    http://www.edsource.org/sch_expend.cfm
                    \_ Dump the illegals and then recalculate, or get a chart
                       that shows absolute numbers which your chart is hiding
                       or better yet, do both.
              \_ Prop 55 includes a $300m grant to build more charter schools.
                 On this basis alone, I cannot, in good conscience, support
                 it.
              \_ Building schools makes no sense when the kids at the
                 current schools don't even have books or teachers. This
                 is money poorly spent in the name of education.
        \_ For the "yes on 56" folks, why do you want to lower the number of
           legislators needed to increase taxes to 55% from 2/3?
           \_ The state budget has been in chaos over not being able to return
              tax rates to an equitable level. Giving the legistature the
              ability to actually do their job sounds like a good idea, unless
              you are one of the many in CA who doesn't like paying for what we
              have here.
              \_ If you paid the taxes *I* pay you'd think they're already too
                 high.  Go get a real job and pay that shit yourself for a few
                 years and we'll see what you think "equitable" looks like.
              \_ I for one think welfare queens should start paying their fair
                 share.
                 \_ What percentage of the state budget is spent by your
                    so-called "welfare queens"? Do you even know?
              \_ I already pay more than my share for what "we" have here.
                 \_ If you really fell that way, why not leave?
                    \_ The weather which is not something improved by increased
                       taxes.
           \_ Because it only takes 51% to lower them.
              \_ Is that true?  I thought *all* tax legislation had to be
                 passed by the same amount.
              \_ and when was the last time your state taxes were lowered?
                 \_ It's sad how easy y'all get brainwashed by right wing talk
                    radio.
                    \_ When was the last time taxes were lowered?
                 \_ Last fall, by Herr Gropenator.
                    \_ Case in point.  Look for a reference to a "car tax"
                       before, oh, '96.
                    \_ No taxes were lowered by the Governor.
                http://www.igs.berkeley.edu/library/htCAVehicleLicense2003.html
                       \_ I wonder how it feels to be you and be wrong about
                          everything, all the time.
                          \_ I see a fee being lowered after it was raised
                             earlier.  Where is your tax?  Do you think I was
                             unaware of the VLF being lowered?  You're not even
                             remotely as clever as you think you are.
                 \_ In real dollars, property taxes go down every day.  Thanks,
                    prop 13.
                    \_ Until you move.
                    \_ Yes, thanks prop 13 or I couldn't afford to own a home.
                       My parents would already be in the street.
                       \_ Prop 13 doesn't do anything to help new homeowners;
                          it only helps people with hundreds of thousands of
                          dollars of equity in their homes keep from
                          contributing to the community.  The idea of people
                          losing their homes over property taxes is a myth.
                          \_ A myth?  I was here and saw it happen.  It is
                             real life to me, not some history book lesson.
                             I lived in pre-prop 13 CA.  Did you?
                             \_ Yeah, I was here too. We used to have good
                                schools before Prop 13 dried up the revenue
                                for them. CA has been on a slow downward
                                spiral ever since it was passed.
                                \_ Yeah, the state was better bankrupting
                                   families so they'd leave and take their kids
                                   with them.  Who wants to spend money
                                   educating all those middle class kids?
                          \_ Uh huh. Without Prop 13 my taxes would be up
                             40% over the last two years. Since they are
                             already $5K now that's another $2K. I wouldn't
                             lose my house, but I'd suffer. Eventually, I
                             might lose my house if the taxes double/triple.
                             \_ So? Suffer away. It's market economics. You
                                could always move instead. Also, without prop
                                13 the burden would be spread everywhere.
                                \_ It's not market economics. What good
                                   does it do me if my house is worth 20x
                                   what it used to be? I should pay tax on it
                                   when I sell and not before, like with stock.
                                   \_ I think Mr. I Hate Prop 13 is just a
                                      bitter apartment dweller who gets off
                                      every night thinking tomorrow will be the
                                      day the housing bubble bursts and he can
                                      finally afford a house.
                                   \_ property taxes pay for the services which
                                      support the value of your house, like
                                      police, fire, and roads.  The analogy to
                                      stocks is totally missing the point.
                                        -tom
                                      \_ So if my house is worth 20x what
                                         my neighbor's house is worth then
                                         I should pay 20x more for this?
                                         \_ I think so. -!tom
                                            \_ Even if it doesn't cost 20x to
                                               supply services to his house?
                                               He uses the same amount of road,
                                               fire, police and other services.
                                               His more expensive house does
                                               not put a bigger drain on the
                                               local services.  Let me guess,
                                               you're not a home owner and
                                               don't work yet, either?
                                               \_ I am a homeowner, and have
                                                  been working for 15 years.
                                                  Try again, anonymous coward.
                                                   -tom
                                                  \_ You 'work' for UC and live
                                                     in Oakland.
                                         \_ How much more will you lose if
                                            your block goes up in flames? Or
                                            if property values crash because
                                            of high crime and shitty schools?
                                             -tom
                                            \_ He's getting the same service as
                                               the shitty house next door. Will
                                               the local fire department make
                                               his fire a priority when both
                                               houses catch fire at the same
                                               time?  Not a chance.  Will the
                                               cop go to his house first? Nope.
           \_ Because it is past time that California raised its taxes.
              \_ no its past time California lowered its expendatures.
                 \_ Okay, where? (And no, deleting my question does not count
                    as a win.)
                    \_ I wasn't here when your question was deleted.  Where?
                       2 things for starters: revamp the educational system,
                       and stop spending money on illegal aliens, then we'll
                       have a chance to see what The People's real needs are
                       and go from there.
                       \_ California already spends less on education than
                          most states. This has been the case for a very
                          long time.
                          \_ I didn't say spend less.  I said revamp.  The
                             entire system is broken and needs to be redone.
        \_ None of this really matters as long as the e-voting machines can be
           shown to be easily compromised and voters are not required to show
           ID in order to vote.  Aargh!
           \_ I had to show ID this morning.
              \_ Where did you vote? (City, County)
                 \_ Dublin.  They asked everyone for ID.
           \_ When I was voting this morning I saw an old person asking about
              paper receipts and audit trails.  It made me happy.
              \_ In San Francisco, we vote by filling in lines with a pen on
                 a piece of paper, which is then read by an optical scanner.
                 This seems like an ideal solution - not prone to error or
                 fraud, easy to understand for everyone, leaves a permanent
                 record for recount, and not labor intensive for the precincts.
                 Why do other counties insist on using such awful solutions
                 like Diebold?
                 \_ Who keeps the piece of paper, the voter or the polling
                    station?  If it's the voter, this system is highly
                    vulnerable to verifiable vote-selling.  If it's put in
                    a lock-box at the polling place, you're in much better
                    shape.
                    \_ The actual ballot with the pen markings is fed into
                       the optical scanner by the voter themselves - after this
                       it is locked away for safekeeping.  The voter keeps
                       only the receipt torn from the top of the sheet.
                       See here:
                       http://www.fairvote.org/administration/votetech.htm
                       Scroll down to "optical scanning."
                       \_ Wow, that rocks!  Thank you!  Now if only Alameda
                          County would implement this.
2004/3/2 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:12484 Activity:kinda low
3/2     How do I disable tab in emacs and make it output space only
        automatically (without doing "untabify" manually)? Thanks.
        \_ Why don't emacs users just mail directly to psb?  He's the only
           one here who knows anything about it.
           \_ on the contrary. (setq indent-tabs-mode nil). but since that
              only does it for the current buffer, you may want to do
              (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) in .emacs.el
              or whatever.
           \_ do not underestimate the motd
        \_ Just do it on write?
      (add-hook 'c-mode-common-hook
                (lambda ()
                  (add-hook 'local-write-file-hooks
                            (lambda () (untabify (point-min)(point-max)))) ...
2004/3/2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12485 Activity:nil
3/2     Is there a list somewhere of google tools (like http://www.google.com/linux
        that pre-limit searches to specific topics?  I can't find it at
        http://labs.google.com.  -John
        \_ I recall seeing this at one point, but the list of topics was small
           (e.g. five subjects) and contained mostly nerd things, e.g. Linux,
           FreeBSD, OpenBSD.  The site: directive may be of some help.
2004/3/2 [Recreation/Dating] UID:12486 Activity:nil
3/1     Wedding gift advice: how much should you spend on a gift for
        someone in your top 5 closest friends?  Does it make a difference
        if your are good friends with just one person or the couple?
        $100?  $300?  $500?
        \_ I was best man at a wedding for some really good friends (both
           of them) and I got them a case of very nice wine that only
           matures in about 12 years or so.  Be creative--I think expensive,
           dull gifts are lame, and won't buy from a wedding registry out of
           general principle (let the relatives take care of blenders and
           silverware and shit like that) but that's  just me.  Just get
           them something you put some thought and effort into.  Rules about
           how much a gift should cost seem sort of pointless.  -John
           \_ Then you're an idiot. My wife and I spent at least twenty
              hours working on the registry and all of our friends did the
              same. Nobody you just gave a gift to is going to say this to your
              face but get over yourself and get something people have actually
              indicated they want. As mentioned below, though, cash is greatly
              appreciated as a gift at wedding time. It's really what most
              newlyweds need most. We are going to have to postpone any honey
              moon for quite awhile for lack of it. -- ulysses
           \_ Maybe pointless to follow them slavishly.  But consider someone
              from Japan or China or India or Russia...say they need some
              kind of basic guideline.  A lot of these answers although
              creative do not answer the basic question.  Obviously, if you
              are a surgeon making $250k/yr the answers are different than
              if you are a math teacher at a high school in Virginia.
              If you are an artist who has gallery exhibits, "your art"
              may be fine.  A sketch of the Capanille you did last saturday
              would be a little silly otherwise.  I think for a single person
              going to a wedding, who has additional expenses for travel,
              $300 is pretty fair.
                \_ Good point, given that in Japan you give ornate little
                   envelopes full of cash, and at Bangladeshi weddings (at
                   least in the UK) you just dump moolah into a bag.  But
                   I think that regardless of where you're from or how much
                   you make, something cool/creative will always come across
                   well and be appreciated.  -John
        \_ What I heard was whatever it costs them to invite you to their
           wedding x 2. So yes, you bring more money as a couple.
           \_ I mean:  If you are friends with both the bride and groom
              do you expect to spend more than if you are on one side of
              the family.
              \- when i dont like one party, i try to give something the
                 party i like will get in the divorce, like if she is a
                 dumb, materialistic bitch and he is an ethical guy with
                 a GiantBrain, i'd give them the OED.
        \_ i just give them cash, $200 or so.
        \_ Why don't you try to buy them something nice that they might
           need?  -tom
        \_ Depends on your income, but I think anything less than $400-500
           is an insult to one of your closest friends. No, it does not
           make a difference if you know them both. Give as if you are
           friends with both even when you are not. FWIW, I gave an
           expensive set of knives and he got them in the divorce. Woo hoo!
           So I guess guns are good gifts if you are friends with the man!
           \_ ugh.. i feel cheap, i only spent $100 or so.
        \_ If your friend is a man, the best gift you could possible
           give him would be to prevent him from getting married. He
           may never thank you for it, but take comfort in the fact
           that you have saved one man from falling into the bottomless
           pit of misery that results from marriage.
           \_ bah, u just need to learn communication skills.  see
              men are from mars, by john gray.
                \_ Communication skills won't help you when your
                   wife decides that she would rather have your
                   money and a life of luxury in the Bahamas based
                   on your blood and sweat rather than work to
                   build a life together. Communications skills
                   won't help you in a community property state
                   when she lies and tells the all-men-are-rapists
                   divorce court judge that you were a spousal
                   abuser. Communication skills won't help when
                   every cent you make you is directly transfered
                   to her account while you don't have enough to
                   buy a burrito at Taco Bell.
                   \_ ah, BDG is a wife-beater; unsurprising.
                      \_ This isn't the BDG, just an imposter.
                                                   -- bdg #1 fan
        \_ One thing people on this thread have suggested is not getting
           stuff from the registry.  I suspect that these people are not
           married.  The point of a registry is to make it more likely
           that you get things you want/need/can use and to prevent you
           from getting a whole bunch of weird stuff that you don't want.
           After all, people only have so much room for decorations and
           if everyone gets the newlyweds artsy stuff, there won't be
           anywhere to put it.  Also, if the couple is paying for the
           wedding themselves (as opposed to parents paying), I can
           guarantee you that money is always appreciated since weddings
           can be very expensive.
           \_ I think the most badass thing ever would be to register at
              mcmaster carr.
           \_ As a sorta-recently married person, I agree with this:
              registry is *good*: we wouldn't have put it on the registry
              if we didn't want it! I also don't care how much a guest
              spends because the wedding is a party for everyone. I mean,
              don't be cheap if you can help it, but really it's just
              nice to celebrate. If you don't want to get something
              from the registry, then *cash* (or equivalent: e.g., gift
              certificates) is very appreciated. Again, amount doesn't matter.
              Getting three toaster ovens is lame (yes, we really did).
              However, we did get a few unexpected gifts which made
              us happy -- our favorite unexpected gift was a hedgehog
              mud scraper (for shoes/boots). Obviously it wasn't expensive
              but in the midst of opening gift-after-gift, it gave us
              quite a laugh. And we use it all the time.
        \_ It's all circumstantial. The registry is a guide that can help
           you make a useful choice (however, sometimes the registry has
           been made by the bride only, thus explaining "coral" and "seafoam"
           as color guides).I've given gifts when I was poor and when I had
           money, and when the couple were newlywed (never lived together)
           and older divorcees, each with their own homes. Give what you are
           comfortable with relative to both of your circumstances. A wedding
           is supposed to be celebrating the joining of two people's lives,
           not a treasure hunt. That happens when you graduate.
           \_ I got nothing when I graduated - not even a party. I never
              understood parents giving their kids things like cars when
              they graduate high school. I think I got an expensive pen.
              \_ I think it's because people generally need a car, and the
                 parents have money and the kid doesn't, so the parents feel
                 it's sensible to give them a car, and graduation seems like a
                 logical time, as it usually coincides closely with the 18th
                 birthday.
        \_ How about offering some service as a gift?  An caucasian co-worker
           of mine was an amateur photographer, so he offered to take pictures
           in my Chinese wedding as a gift (and it worked out well even though
           he didn't understand the rituals).  A service as a gift is silly in
           the Chinese mind because a service is just "helping out", but I
           think in the American mind it's a sincere gift.
2004/3/2-3 [Recreation/Celebrity/WilliamHung] UID:12487 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
3/1     For those not on csua@csua: CSUA General Meeting & BBQ next Monday,
        March 8th, at 5:30pm on the volleyball court behind Soda Hall.
        \_ Will William Hung be performing?
        \_ dear politburo, if you can get William Hung to perform at
           the politburo, I will donate $500                    -csua alumni
           \_ I'll throw in $50 more. I think we could get at least a G for it.
           \_ I will pay $500 to ban American Idol from ever airing again.
        \_ How do I get on csua@csua?
           \_ use usenet: http://ucb.org.csua
              \_ Wow, FOX might be tempted... but probably not.
        \_ How do I get on csua@csua?
        \_ How do I get off csua@csua?
        \_ How do I get off on csua@csua?
           \_ Type with one hand and use your other hand for that.
           \_ use usenet: http://ucb.org.csua
2004/3/2-3 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:12488 Activity:nil
3/2     I'm looking for a very lightweight laptop that has a decent screen
        and is reasonably priced. Recommendations?
        \_ Sony Vaio PCG-Z1A?  $2K for that 14' LCD 4.5 pound notebook.
          \_ i have had 2 VAIOs and know about 10 people in my lab with VAIOs.
             The video on the first failed. The PCMCIA slot on the second
             stopped working. Others in the lab have complained. On the other
             hand, noone has any problems with the IBM laptops, so we're not
             just whiners. SHARP has a really nice small laptop for $1500. -ali
        \_ I have the Sharp Actius MM10; decent 10" screen (1024x768), 2.1
           pounds and very small, $1399 from Amazon.  If low weight is your
           primary concern, it's hard to beat.  -tom
        \_ 12" ibook or powerbook.
           \_ Ibook is not exactly lightweight but it is not too heavy either.
        \_ IBM X20, 21 or 22 from EBay. Why does the AMC hate this entry?
           It keeps getting deleted...
           \_ Seconded.  I had an X20 for a long time--it's a fantastic little
              machine.  Buy a USB storage key, though.  -John
        \_ What will you be using it for.  How "decent" a screen?
           \_ mainly web-surfing, text editing and photoshop and maybe
              occasionally running some java stuff for work (which would mean
              it would need a good amount of memory). It's not a desktop
              replacement so i'm more concerned with portability than having
              lots of bells and whistles. the suggestions so far have been
              good but I'm wondering if there's anything that weighs around 3
              lb and has a 14" screen. (the Vaio is the closest to what i'm
              looking for but it's more than I want to spend. I would
              consider ebay since i don't particularly need the latest
              processor) -op
              \_ "Small, large, cheap: pick two."  -tom
                 \_ I'd like it small and large, please.
              \_ Go to <DEAD>fujitsupc.com<DEAD> and look at the S series notebooks.
                 There are cheap ones with AMD mobile CPUs (which suck IMO)
                 and more expensive ones with Intel Centrinos.  13.3",
                 4.5 lbs.  Buy them at http://laptopinc.com or http://newegg.com.
                 For 14" at 5.5 lbs., I recommend the Dell Latitude D600.
                 You can get a D500 or D505 if it's not for gaming.
                 Don't get the Inspirons.  My co-worker has a D800 which
                 stopped working.  Whatever you do, get the 1024x768
                 XGA screen (not 1400x1050 or higher).  I believe all 14"
                 notebooks you find will weigh at least 4.5 lbs. (unless
                 it's a Mac notebook).
              \_ First of all, using photoshop on LCD screen is simply a
                 bad idea.  Secondly, if you *REALLY* want portability, you
                 need to give up on that 14" screen.  I would recommend the
                 new IBM X40s.  They are tiny.  Dell is pretty decent too,
                 but Dell doesn't have dedicated memory for its video.  If
                 money is an issue, how about looking for IBM X31?
                                -- the guy who carries his laptop on subways
                                   and buses all the time
                 \_ I use photoshop on multiple LCD displays. It's better
                    than a monitor. WTF is up with this comment?
2004/3/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12489 Activity:moderate
3/2     Early reports say Kerry is making a clean sweep today.  Oh well,
        4 more years for GWB.
        \_ Edwards to drop out tomorrow.
           \_ you mean become Vice Presidential Candidate
              \_ no way that vain Boston prig would pick someone who'd
                 upstage him, even if Kerry/Edwards is in the party's
                 best interest
        \_ don't understand what do you mean.  you mean Edward with his
           anti-trade, protectionist platform has better shot at winning
           votes from the undecided?
           \_ ^undecided^undecided and Southerners^
              \_ why Kerry won Ohio?  you would imagine a state lost 250k jobs
                 would find Edwards more appealing.
           \_ Yes.  More than Kerry.  Where have you been?  A lot of people
              in this country lost jobs to NAFTA, overseas outsourcing, often
              paid for with their own tax dollars and they're pissed off.
              \_ why Kerry won Ohio?  you would imagine a state lost 250k jobs
                 would find Edwards more appealing.
                 \_ It's the "Most Electible" vote.
                 \_ duh, it isn't a general election.  they had to vote for
                 even though they create jobs OVERSEAS.  May be tha corporate
                    someone.  and tell me this: how many stayed home?
              \_ just part of globalization, my friend, bite the damn
                 bullet.  USA as a whole has benefited from this trend,
                 it would be foolish to roll back.  My problem with the
                 current system is that we offer tax break to companies
                 even though they create jobs OVERSEAS.  May be the corporate
                 tax code should be rewritten so it only rewards companies
                 that offer jobs within USA border.  This wouldn't stop
                 moving jobs to overseas, but it will stop unnecessary
                 job migration.
                 \_ I don't disagree with you.  I'm just telling you what you
                    already know: there are a bunch of pissed off people out
                    there who are going to vote against pro-global candidates
                    if at all possible.
                 \- why should companies be given tax breaks for job creation
                    again? isnt that just a subsidy to the owners? how about
                    giving tax breaks to people who buy "american cars" or
                    "american shoes".
                    \_ what is considered "American " is no longer clear.
                            \- that is why i quoted "american". i think it
                               was actually a good thing that the developing
                               countries said "fuck you" in cancun. can you
                               imagine india trying to protect "chai" like
                               the french protect champagne? or the mercan-
                               tilism of the RIAA and MSFT? --psb ...
                               \_ In cancun, it's less to do with intellectual
                                  properties right, more to do with government
                                  subsidies on agrecultural product, and
                                  Brazil and India and rest of developing
                                  nation wants to got rid of it.  Besides,
                                  this entire IP fiascal started by USA,
                                  and the rest of the country is just trying
                                  to do the same thing.
                    again? isnt that just a subsidy to the owners? how about
                    giving tax breaks to people who buy "american cars" or
                    "american shoes".
                                 But when the chosen people grew more strong,
                                 The rightful cause at length became the wrong:
                                 The moderate sort of men, thus qualifi'd,
                                 Inclin'd the balance to the better side:
                                                      --john dryden
                       Toyota Camery is made in USA, is that considered
                       an "American" car?  When American product flooding
                       other nations, USA was being a such arrogant asshole
                       saying that this is part of globalization and eventually
                       offer consumer better/cheaper product is best interest
                       for everyone in the long run.   It's kind of funny that
                       other nations start to beat USA with USA's own game and
                       USA start to bitching about it.  I never said the trade
                       rules are fair, but it is HEAVILY favors American
                       corperations that most other nation is actually compete
                       at much of a handicaps.  The irony is that American
                       citizens (aside from wealthy share owners of these
                       corporation) start to loose out, as they too become
                       victims of corporate expoitation.
                       \_ There's no longer any such thing as a USA corporation
                          among the large companies.  They're all
                          multi-nationals which means they're going to screw
                          anyone and everyone they can if it makes them a
                          penny.  When some dumb cunt like 'Carly' at HP says
                          and does some of the evil stupid shit she has, you
                          can be certain that "USA" is the last thing on her
                          mind.
              \_ And just how is Bush and his "outsourcing is good" policy
                 going to appeal to the people who have lost jobs?  You're
                 \_ 1) It's not, 2) Bush never said that.  Some paper pusher
                    knee biters 9 layers deep in the beauracracy said it and
                    were repudiated the next news cycle by the admin.
                    \_ Actually, it was the head of Bush's Council of
                       Economic Advisers, Gregory Mankiw.  And the Bush
                       "repudiation" was a lukewarm "the president is
                        strongly committed to creating jobs here at home"
                       from mouthpiece McClellan.  Not inspiring stuff.
2004/3/2-3 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:12490 Activity:nil 66%like:29848
3/2     When a public library offers laptop connections, is it normal
        to restrict outgoing access to port 80 and 443 only?
2004/3/2-3 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:12491 Activity:nil
3/2     how do i deter flies from flying around my back yard?  i suspect
        the pigeons in my neighbor's back yard is attracting those flies.
        \_ flypaper.  For the larger problem, Alka Seltzer + cats.
        \_ RAID.  Or poison the pigeons.
           \_ I really don't understand how disk arrays would prevent flies.
        \_ Some sticky yellow tapes which attract flies and sticks to them.  I
           don't know what they're called.
        \_ the number of flies is too many plus it's outdoor.  sticky
           paper won't work well in this condition.  i just want to see if
           there's some non-destructive and environmental friendly way.
           \_ what about those things that emit sound on frequencies annoying
              to insects? i've always wondered how well they work, though.
              \_ what about those "bug" lights?
                 \_ i think those attract bugs and fry them, as opposed to
                    just keeping them away in the first place.
           \_ Actually I've used flypaper outdoors to great effect.  Had
              what seemed like a zillion flies zipping around, the paper
              worked well.  Put up about a dozen strips, and the flies
              were all stuck to the paper within a few days.
        \_ frogs
        \_ part of Fly's life cycle is that its larvae need to be hosted in
           dead animal / decade flesh.  You might want to find out the source
           of these dead animal near your back yard.  Once you are able to
           cut the part of fly's life cycle, you will able to cut number
           of flys significantly.  This is the only effective way for dealing
           with Flys (aside from massive DDT/pesticide  spread).
2004/3/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Reference/Tax] UID:12492 Activity:high
3/2     I'm a little confused.  Does it make any sense to vote Yes on 58 but
        no on 57, or vice versa?  What's the alternative to 57-- bankruptcy?
        Higher taxes?  Ending school lunches?
        \_ 58 can only pass if 57 does. I am not sure if 57 can pass
           without 58, but I think so.
           \_ You've got it backwards: !58 => !57
              http://www.voterguide.ss.ca.gov/propositions/prop57-title.html
        \_ both are needed to pass to have any effect.  I wouldn't mind
           58 and 57 so much *IF* Arnie decided to raise just a bit taxes
           58 and 57 so much *IF* Arnie decided to raise just a bit taxes n
           and didn't cut car taxes.
           \_ What if he decided to only raise taxes for people in *your*
              tax bracket?  Would that be ok?
              \_ good point, and the answer is no.  this bond is about
                 as regressive as sales tax, where the wealthies pays a much
                 less portion of the burden than they should bear.
2004/3/2-3 [Computer, Computer/Rants] UID:12493 Activity:nil
3/2     Lou Dobbs tonight: "taking a look at top U.S. universities for
        computer science":
        http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight
        \_ exporting America?  ouch... blame globalization, huh?
2004/3/2 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12494 Activity:nil
3/2     Are the 2 parties actually any different, and will Nader really
        threaten the dem candidate?
        part one: http://tinyurl.com/3ffcl
        part two: http://tinyurl.com/3dl6n
        \_ Kind of nice how they can put up graphs and images to illustrate
           their points.
2004/3/2 [Computer/Theory, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:29844 Activity:high
3/1     Computer science trivia of the day:
        Say you have X memory and have 8X that size to sort on the disk.
        Each time you swap from X memory to one of the 8 pages, it will
        cost you n time. Using what you know about merge sort, quick sort,
        and what not, what is the complexity in terms of n?
        \_ Do your own homework.
        \_ I used to know that but then I graduated and stopped spending my
           time on useless homework problems.  It was O of something.
2004/3/2 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic] UID:29845 Activity:insanely high
3/1     In case anyone's still interested, I saw a cop standing on the corner
        of Telegraph and Durant for at least 30 minutes doing nothing else
        but giving out citations for gaywalking.  At least one guy was able to
        "talk" his way out of it.
        \_ Just run and hide in Unit 3 somewhere.
        \_ I wonder if there was an accident recently?
        \_ What's the penalty for it? Also, how do they enforce it? Can't you
           \_ It's the law that you must carry ID. Whoops, another ticket!
           say you don't have ID etc?
           \_ I've been told that there's a law that requires all adults to
              carry some form of approved ID on them at all times out in public.
        \_ He's just doing his part to fix Berkeley's budget deficit.
           \_ I guess this is what happens when people keep breaking
              parking meters.
              \_ Nonsense.  The parking meters are set to give less time than
                 they say so they give out more bogus tickets.  Breaking meters
                 was civil disobedience.
                 \_ um, no.  how many meters did you break?  i broke and
                    destroyed maybe a dozen or so over the years in
                    berkeley, and knew people who destroyed more.
                    none of us ever drove, had cars or parked.  it was just
                    random violence.
        \_ I remember about 7 or 8 years ago, the bike cops would nab
           gaywalkers during the weekends.  I heard one cop telling a
           gaywalker that the fine was 75 bucks.
           \_ Mine was $40.  When I forgot to pay it, my mom got a
              threatening call from some bitch affirmative action hiree at
              the BPD--"he's in trouble, he's committed a crime."  -John
2004/3/2 [Recreation/Dating] UID:29846 Activity:nil
3/1     Since the last dating thread generated so much excitement, here
        is a new poll:  Would you date someone who did immoral things
        not related to your relationship.  Say cheat on exams in college,
        petty theft from stores.  Steal from work.  etc.  Or if the sex
        was good, other sins are forgiven?
        \_ I think one should have the same moral standards as one's
           partner, whatever they may be.
        \_ cheat on exams: sure, petty theft shows there's some other problem
           and would make me think about it, from work depends.  I would never
           stay with someone that was doing something that would risk getting
           me into trouble. -oj
        \_ "I want a lady on the street, but a freak in bed."  -John
2004/3/2 [Consumer/TV, Recreation/Media] UID:29847 Activity:nil
3/1     Watching Alias from the beginning on DVD, it's better than I recall.
        In particular Sidney kicks a lot more ass at the beginning of season
        one, she actually kills a few people in the first three episodes.
        I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think she kills people later in the
        series.  I suspect the network requested this to make Sidney more
        appealing to mass audiences.
        \_ -dans
        \_ No.  It isn't.  I just suffered through the first 2 seasons on DVD
           last week.  It almost drove me to drink.
        \_ Alias kind of sucked. Too much of a La Femme Nikita ripoff.
           \_ What's wrong with ripping of La Femme Nikita?  It was a good
              movie/show? -dans
              \_ Because it's a poorly done ripoff.  LFN rocked.  Alias sucks.
                 \_ Wooh, leverage that million-dollar vocabulary!
                    \_ Better to sound like Beavis and Butthead than an
                       MBA.
        \_ I think she kills more people in later episodes...rather than
           just knocking out nameless, faceless guards, she actually KILLS
           people. Actually, i stopped watching alias about 5 weeks ago,
           but up to then i had seen every single episode and it was the
           only TV show i regularly watched.
           \- it's getting a little formulaic ... fly to high tech glass and
              steel bldg where a lot of people speak german and jump out of
              ceiling and fight 5 guards off and steal plans for "FOOtanium"
              device ... --psb
              \_ And wear ridiculous wig so she won't be recognised yet hang
                 out with lots of other agents who don't wear any 'disguises'.
              \_ Did you see the India eps? It was very amusing.
2017/11/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/19   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:March:02 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>