Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:26 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2005/8/26 [Transportation/Airplane, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:39287 Activity:low 50%like:39369
8/25    Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
        <DEAD>www.veganza.org<DEAD>  -John
        \_ I think you mean http://www.venganza.org
           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
                Also known as pastafarians.
           \_ Unfortunately, there are way more than 17 pirates in the world
              today.
           \_ Half-life of C14 is 5730yrs?  I thought it was 5400yrs.
              \_ May all His followers find the right pirate outfits in the
                 closet, so that they can walk out of it and show the world our
                 real strength.  RAmen.
        \_ This starts out as a good "show how silly ID is" bit, but rapidly
           devolves to stupidity.  I think The Onion's "Intelligent Falling"
           article is much better:
           http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2
           \_ But FSM leads to good holiday names like Pastaover and Ramendan.
2005/8/26 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:39288 Activity:nil
8/25    The Governator isn't all bad, he's for solar power:
        http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/million_solar_r.php
        \_ A related article someone posted two months ago:
           http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/11790776.htm
        \_ Go Governator!
2005/8/26 [Uncategorized] UID:39289 Activity:nil
8/25
2005/8/26 [Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:39290 Activity:nil
8/25    What happened at San Leandro BART?
        08-26) 09:15 PDT San Leandro (SF Chronicle) -- BART is experiencing major
        delays this morning and the San Leandro station has been shut down after
        a man was struck and killed by a train there.  Today is the 26th... -ax
2005/8/26-29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39291 Activity:low
8/26    Nice, John Bolton is already making a huge impact!
        http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_08_21.php#006347
        \_ I'd just as easily believe Bolton were doing it with complete
           support from the Administration.
          \_ Uh.. duh.  Bolton is Bush's guy, though, not the State
             Department's.  By all indications, State had been trying
             to get the guy out of there.  He fucks up everything he
             touches.  I think that's why Bush likes him.  How else is
             he gonna get his war with Iran?
             \_ hey, isn't he supposed to be Condi's guy more than Dubya's?
                wasn't condi throwing all this support in for Bolton?
                \_ Not particularly.  She basically said "Don't worry,
                   We'll babysit him if you confirm him"
                   \_ "John Bolton is eminently qualified for this job. And I'm
                      the one who talked to the president about having John do
                      this." -Sec State Rice, May 11 2005
                      \_ You didn't follow the confirmation process too closely,
                         huh?
                         \_ I probably followed it more closely than you:
                            In addition to saying they would keep him on a
                            leash, Rice also made that rather clear, emphatic
                            statement.
                            \_ Because Rice is a good trooper.  The odor
                               of embarrassment about the guy is palpable.
                               \_ Let's put it this way:  Between Cheney,
                                  Rummy, and Rice (let's exclude Rove),
                                  Rummy, and Rice (let's exclude Rove, please),
                                  who do you think Dubya trusted most when it
                                  came to checking himself before deciding to
                                  invade Iraq?
                                  came to deciding to invade Iraq?
                                  \_ Apples to oranges.  This quote from Rice
                                     is for the unwashed masses (ie Congress).
                                     Also, when has ever been apparent that
                                     Bush checks himself?
                                     \_ It's the first thing many people think
                                        of (along the lines of:  Rice is loyal
                                        not dumb), and it's definitely
                                        plausible, but so is my theory (true,
                                        Rice is loyal, but she's more the
                                        "dumb smart" person that Dubya trusts).
                                        Rice is loyal, but she's also the
                                        "smart" person that Dubya trusts).
                                        Same goes with checking himself.
                                        heh.
             \_ He fucks everything up he touches? Is he Bush's clone?
             \_ we don't have the troops for Iran.
                we are nothing but a limp penis right now, and Bush knows it.
                \- what is stephen krasner's role in this?
2005/8/26-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39292 Activity:nil
8/26    AP Poll on Iraq war:
        http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5580679.html
        37% approval of war, 87% support of expression of dissent.
        \_ Mission Accomplished!
2005/8/26-27 [Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:39293 Activity:moderate
8/26    What happened at San Leandro BART?
        \_ 08-26) 09:15 PDT San Leandro (SF Chronicle) -- BART is experiencing major
           delays this morning and the San Leandro station has been shut down after
           a man was struck and killed by a train there.  Today is the 26th... -ax
           \_ A badly formated motd post caused some BART trains to run late
              which resulted in stations that were more crowded than usual
              with a few dozen people being pushed at the tracks by the
              growing pressure of body mass.
        \_ 08-26) 09:15 PDT San Leandro (SF Chronicle) -- BART is
           experiencing major delays this morning and the San Leandro station
           has been shut down after a man was struck and killed by a train
           there.  Today is the 26th... -ax
           \_ Suicide or homicide?
              \_ Two witnesses have said suicide.
                 \_ He deserves to die man!  Doing this in rush hour and
                    tying up thousands of other people.  He should have jumped
                    tying up thousands of other people.  He could have jumped
                    the GG Bridge with much less impact instead.
                    \_ Deserves to die because he died?  That's like saying
                       a lollipop ought to be sweet because it's, uhm, sweet.
                       Or that badgers deserve a fearsome reputation because
                       they are fearsome!!!1!
                       \_ No, he deserves to die because he needlessly tied up
                          thousands of people's lives by choice.
                          \_ Right -- ie, 'he deserves to die because he
                             needlessly tied up lives...by dying'  He wouldn't
                             have held up traffic if he hadn't died.
                             \_ He doesnt deserve to die, but we should
                                at least throw these type of people in jail.
                    \_ or the 11:30pm train
              \_ If you ever decide to commit suicide, please do not do it
                 this way. It is not painless way to die,not just because it
                 ties up the commute.
2005/8/26-29 [Reference/Military] UID:39294 Activity:moderate
8/26    Okay, I want to buy a gun.  I don't need it, but just wanna get
        one cause it's fun and cool, and it's one thing I can't do in
        most other countries.  I lean towards not allowing guns, but
        on a personal basis, if it's legal, I feel like exercising my
        right and freedom, and also it feels good to annoy mot.
        what gun should I get?  where can I get a basic gun safety
        training?  and where can I go shoot?
        beretta? glock? s&w revolver?  where do I buy them?
        \_ Get 2 Desert Eagles in silver and don't look back
        \_ If you're in the SF/BA, Target Master's in milpitas is an
           excellent indoor shooting range with a great selection of
           weapons that you can rent.  Their staff is good and willing to
           answer questions from novices.  My suggestion is to go to a
           range where you're comfortable, get your HSC, try out a
           selection of weapons in different calibers, then make a
           decision.  I'd suggest Beretta (92/96), Smith Wesson 490*, HK
           USP, or maybe Sig 22*.  For a beginner, you might want to start
           decision.  I'd suggest Beretta (92/96), Smith Wesson 40[03|06|13],
           HK USP, or maybe Sig 22*.  For a beginner, you might want to start
           with a revolver in .22 to get used to handling a firearm, then
           granduate to a 9mm semi.  Email me if you have questions.  -mice
        \_ If you're in the SF/BA, Target Master's in milpitas is an excellent
           indoor shooting range with a great selection of weapons that you
           can rent.  Their staff is good and willing to answer questions from
           novices.  My suggestion is to go to a range where you're
           comfortable, try out a selection of weapons in different calibers,
           get your HSC, then make a decision.  I'd suggest Beretta (92/96),
           Smith Wesson 490*, HK USP, or maybe Sig 22*.  For a beginner, you
           might want to start with a revolver in .22 to get used to handling
           a firearm, then granduate to a 9mm semi.  Email me if you have
           questions.             -mice
           \_ How about Sig Pro vs. Sig 22*?
           \_ Target Masters seconded. http://www.thegunplace.com/range.htm
              --erikred
           \_ What is a S&W 490*?
              \_ Smith and Wesson 4003 TSW, 4006 TSW, 4013 TSW -- typo on my
                 part.    Corrected -- thanks!     -mice
        \_ Don't get a glock. -- ilyas
           \_ So are you guys against all polymer frames or just Glocks? What
              about a Sig Pro?
           \_ Another thing about glocks I forgot to mention.  They, uh ..
              they tend to explode.  See 'the glock ka-boom faq':
              http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html -- ilyas
           \_ Seconded.  -John
              \_ Thirded. Damn thing was too small for my hand. --erikred
                 \_ Fourthed, I guess.  I loathed the pull - felt uneven. -mice
                    \_ Fifthed.  Feels like a blocky piece of crap in my
                       hands. -geordan
                    \_ I've heard the "don't buy a glock" advice now from
                       quite a few people who know guns.  So if people in the
                       know all hate them so much, why are they so successful?
                       Brilliant marketing?  What?
                       \_ They are successful because Glocks have one advantage
                          -- they are _extremely_ reliable and resistant to
                          shocks, dirt, sand, water, etc.  However, there are
                          plenty of guns that have comparable durability to
                          Glocks without all the, well, suck. -- ilyas
                       \_ The marketing helps too.  I just hate the balance on
                          them--it doesn't feel like a gun.  -John
                       \_ I thought a lot of the law enforcement use was
                          because of the safety. -geordan
                          \_ Glocks have a safety? -- ilyas
                             \_ They have a "trigger safety" and internal
                                safeties against non-triggered fire.
                             \_ Not a safety safety.  I meant the "dropping
                                it on the ground" safety.  Safeness.  Fine,
                                I'll find a /. article to torture you with.
                                -geordan
                                \_ Glocks have almost no safety features.  This
                                   makes them very mechanically simple, much
                                   less likely to misbehave in the hands of a
                                   panicky or freaked out cop/soldier, and
                                   very, VERY cheap.  It is seen as a true
                                   professional's gun in its stripped down
                                   simplicity.  This makes it somewhat less
                                   safe for anyone other than really hardcore
                                   gun people or professionals.  That's the
                                   theory, anyhow.  *shrug*  I still don't like
                                   them very much.  As a side note, no
                                   modern semi-auto will (should) fire if
                                   dropped, whether it's in the cocked state,
                                   safetied, decocked, etc.  IIRC, James
                                   Bond's Walther PPK was actually notoriously
                                   bad in this respect.        -mice
                                   \_ I am not sure I believe this.  Lots of
                                      cops shoot themselves in the foot
                                      (literally!) with glocks every year.
                                      It _is_ an excellent gun if you plan
                                      to roam the jungles and fieldstrip it
                                      often enough to appreciate how few parts
                                      there are. -- ilyas
                                      \_ Well, yeah.  I know CCCSO considers
                                         the glock an out-of-policy weapon for
                                         exactly that reason.  That's partly
                                         why, I believe, it's viewed as a true
                                         professional's weapon -- that if you
                                         don't know what you're doing, you'll
                                         shoot yourself in the foot, etc -- but
                                         that's counterbalanced by the gun's
                                         simplicity/reliability and its ease
                                         of use right out of the holster, etc.
                                         Personally, I think that reputation
                                         speaks of a mentality which has more
                                         to do with machismo and less to do
                                         with pragmatism.  I mean, as you
                                         pointed out above, there's no reason
                                         why you can't carry your Smith cocked
                                         and hot...but I think that's a great
                                         way to make an ass of yourself by
                                         shooting your toe off with your own
                                         service weapon.        -mice
                 \_ So if I have small hands it's good?
                    \_ Maybe.  Beretta also makes a 92/96 model with slimmer
                       grips (the Vertec).         -mice
        \_ Shooting on a regular basis can get pricy. Owning a gun just to
           \_ Highly dependant on caliber, dude.  .22 is cheap.
           \_ People who shoot regularly often invest in reloading equipment.
              This makes shooting significantly less expensive as a hobby.
              As a bonus, you can become a powder/ballistics geek. -- ilyas
           have a gun is kinda stupid. There are a few places to go for a
           handgun safety class. Train and learn first before you start
           popping off about gun makers and calibers. Where do you live?
           \_ This post added nothing to the thread at all, aside from you
              taking the opportunity to declare your semi-informed opinions.
           \_ http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Guns/Education
              My brother in law (a collector more into rifles than pistols)
              says that the Chabot Gun Club is pretty decent.  As the
              previous poster reiterates, definitely get your HSC before
              handling a gun -- it's the absolute minimum in terms of
              safety the state of CA requires in order to own.  More
              advanced casses are highly recommended, though.  You could
              probably also call Target Master's for better pointers to
              other gun clubs that offer classes.  This all assumes that
              you're in the BA, of course.  If not, then you could probably
              just call the local gun store (google/yahoo can help find one).
              They usually somewhat connected as a community.   -mice
              says that the Chabot Gun Club is pretty decent.  As was said
              before, definitely get your HSC before handling a gun -- it's
              the absolute minimum in terms of safety the state of CA
              requires in order to own.  More advanced casses are highly
              My brother-in-law (a collector more into rifles than pistols)
              says that the Chabot Gun Club is pretty decent.  Yeah,
              definitely get your HSC before handling a gun -- it's the
              absolute minimum in terms of safety the state of CA requires
              in order to own.  More advanced casses are highly
              in order to own.  More advanced classes are highly
              recommended, though.  You could probably also call Target
              Master's for better pointers to other gun clubs that offer
              classes.  This all assumes that you're in the BA, of course.
              classes.  This all assumes that you're in the SF/BA, of course.
              If not, then you could probably just call the local gun store
              (google/yahoo can help find one).  They usually somewhat
              connected as a community.   -mice
              (google/yahoo/YP can help find one).  They're usually somewhat
              connected as a community, and are likely to be knowledgable
              and willing to help.      -mice
        \_ Depends on your ergonomics, and if you want a safety. Never
           depend on a safety, but many jurisdictions like LA are getting
           draconian about "safety features." Some guns have loaded chamber
           indicators as well. Like with cars, the imports usually cost
           more. But going to any indoor range in CA will never prepare
           you for when you really have to use your gun. Get a shotgun
           for that. Drop me a line for more. -jlee
        \_ I really like my WWII vintage Remington/Colt .45 M1911.  It feels
           more like an heirloom than a soulless tool, and is a pleasure
           to shoot.  There was a _lot_ of discussion of "how-to" gun safety
           and mechanics type of stuff on the motd about a year ago, look at
           KAIS archive; a lot of people mentioned good tips about what to
           look out for, where to go, etc.  -John
        \_ For most things I stick to dual berettas, but I usually
           carry a desert eagle or dual ingrams to deal with tricky
           situations. -mpayne
           \_ I dunno, man.  My glock has always served me well -- even in the
              most extreme situations.       -gfreeman
              \_ Word on the street is that you do your best work with your
                 crowbar.
                 \_ Guns are for pussies -- I like SWORD!  That's a personal
                    weapon.                 -lwang
        \_ Do any motd people have Class III/Title II or whatever weapons?
           Silencers, machineguns?
           \_ I hear John has a tank.
              \_ I didn't get the tank because I had myself declared psycho
                 in lieu of having to spend 15 weeks being told by farm boys
                 to do pushups.  I did, however, acquire an arsenal from a
                 colleague under some weird circumstances recently, and a
                 friend in Germany has a bunch of machine guns and sniper
                 rifles and other scary shit.  -John
           \_ Don't have them, but just two weeks ago I was out visiting
              relatives in Atlanta who are in the gun business, and got
              to try a whole host of stuff that you can't get in the
              good ol' People's Republic of California.
                \_ That's the People's Democratic Republic of Kalifornia, fool
                   \_ Should be Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia
                      (DPRK).
                      \_ I hate the smell of motd humor in the evening.
                      \_ All hail Kimnold Jongilnegger!
                         \-Hasta La Vista, PSB
                           http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/LBL/Gubernator+Chu.jpg
       \_ Don't forget to visit http://www.nra.org and sign up
        \_ You might want to consider this gun:
           http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/1734
2005/8/26-29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39295 Activity:nil
8/26    Everytime I go to Yahoo Odd News I see some German guy/gal doing
        something crazy or stupid. What is it about the Germans?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050826/od_nm/germany_vandal_dc
        \_ Adam Carolla (Loveline, Man Show) has a bit he calls "Germany
           or Florida" where he talks about some stupid stunt and callers
           have to guess where it happened. He points out that weird stuff
           always seems to happen in Germany or Florida.
           \_ or reported more often in .de or FL.  If some of that
              stuff happened say in SF, would anyone even blink an eye?
              \_ Have you read any of Carl Hiaasen's fiction or Elmore
                 Leonard's? I think they often write about Florida (and both
                 live there) because batshit crazy makes for good fiction.
                  -- ulysses
2005/8/26-29 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:39296 Activity:low
8/26    How many poeple here would find the following tax system to be
        acceptable:
        A flat income tax of 15 % is paid by everyone, *but* it's based on
        your first job right out of college, and stays fixed even as your
        income increases.  So if you work at walmart for a year and then
        go into investment banking, you're still taxed at the flat 15%
        rate based on your walmart salary, while the guy who got the ibanking
        job right out of college pays six times what you do in taxes.
        Imagine also that everyone who moves into the state starts at the
        rate of their first california job.  Hence when an out of stater
        takes a job, they might pay four times what their co-workers pay,
        since the co-workers are paying based on happening to have a low
        paying job 15 years ago when they graduated college in California.
        Sound fair?
        Or does it sound like a perverse nightmare that would fuck up the whole
        labor market for the state and totally distort the tax base?
        \_ I didn't think the current tax system could be any more broken
           than it already is.  I was wrong.
        \_ I'm guessing this was intended as a Prop. 13 analogy.
           \_ Yes. I wanted to see if any of the pro-prop 13 crowd would be
              willing to defend the same system applied to fucking up the
              labor market as they're using to fuck up the real estate market.
              \_ Then get a real analogy.  Yours is silly.
           \_ Hm, I guess.  It's a poor analogy since a job != a house.  I
              can get a crummy job for a day and then get a high paying one.
              If I get a crummy house, I pay less property taxes.  If I get an
              expensive house, I pay more.  The analogy falls over at step 1.
              \_ It continues to be poor: changing income tax rates don't
                 screw over retired people on a fixed income.
        \_ When I graduate, I'll make sure I tell Google or whomever to
           postpone my start date by a month, so that I'll have time to take up
           a job at Walmart for a few weeks.
        \_ How do idiots like this get into Cal? Is it really that easy?
        \_ broken analogy.  When/if I buy a new home, I pay new taxes.
2005/8/26-29 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:39297 Activity:nil
8/26    Hawaii caps gas prices:
        http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/hawaii_becomes.php
        \_ Won't oil companies just sell the gas for Hawaii in other states?
        \_ In other news, the Hawaii state legislature failed economics
           101.
           \_ The Hawaii state government has been failing remedial econ
              for quite some time now.
        \_ Damn I'm glad I no longer live there .. gas lines suck, just ask
           your parents!
2005/8/26-29 [Health/Men, Health/Skin] UID:39298 Activity:nil 80%like:39653
8/26    hey ilyas i have a link for you
        http://fray.com/drugs/worm/post - danh
        \_ Gee, I almost feel honored. -- ilyas
2005/8/26-29 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:39299 Activity:nil 50%like:36690
8/26    RIDE P2P BIKE in France:
        http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68576,00.html
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:26 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>