Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:22 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/11/22-23 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:40685 Activity:low
        Good introduction on how to flip houses. Please don't delete
        this lafe. Flipping is not illegal nor is it unethical.
        \_ Yeah, it's just playing a game of musical chairs hoping you
           won't be the one with no chair.  Of course, it could lead
           to a housing panic which would leave many with no chair.
           \_ Not if there are enough people buying out the houses to live
              in them.  It is not the same situation as the stock market
              bubble.  The tech stocks had no value to investors unless they
              went up since they didn't do dividends.  Houses have a real
              world use and thus real world value.  It is only a question of
              buying at a number now such that the product can be resold later
              when the real world value has gone up minus the costs of the
              transaction and maintenance.  Some people win this bet, a lot
              lose.  It could be any essential product with real world use
              such as energy/fuel, clothing, food, water, etc.  Housing happens
              to be the big ticket item among life's essentials so that's
              where the games get played.
              \_ big difference here is in the tech stock bubble, there was
                 no cost (aside from lost capital) from holding onto them
                 in a falling market.  Real estate has taxes, maintenance fees,
                 and such.  Plus its almost always financed, so you have
                 borrowing costs as well.  If there's no profit incentive
                 any more, the speculators are going to want to dump them.
                 And fast!
2005/11/22-23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:40686 Activity:nil
11/21   With 2005 coming to a close, it's time to vote for your favorite
        motd war of 2005!  It's a tough group of nominees out
        many favorites to choose from:
        GUN DUEL:
        amckee vs psb FITE:
        jblack vs. the jblack stalker:
        ilyas vs. everybody:
        \_ Who won?
             MOTD: .
        jblack vs. the jblack stalker:
        ilyas vs. everybody:
        \_ my favorite is the amckee vs. blacklist thread. It was
           unique and hilarious
        \_ young and stupid politburo vs. stubborn old farts
        Casino Troll:
        \_ only amckee v. psb is worth a shit since the others were
           anonymous people hassling non-anonymous people which is lame.
        \_ we all lose because these things make the motd and the csua suck.
2005/11/22-23 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:40687 Activity:nil
11/21   Anyone tried the new Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 500GB 3.5'
        Sata 3.0GB/S Hard Drive? At $339/drive, is it a good deal?
        Any other comments?
        \_ I have the WD 500GB.  It's not a great deal for $/GB.  Noise and
           performance were decent but not wonderfull.  I picked it for GB/bay.
2005/11/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40688 Activity:nil
        A German man drank too much, wet his bed and set fire to his
        apartment while trying to dry his bedding. Sieg Heil german john!
2005/11/22-23 [Recreation/Dating] UID:40689 Activity:high
11/22   DAmmit, where was this teacher when I was 14?
        \_ Why can't all pedophiles plea bargain like she did?
        \_ You're right. She is HOT HOT HOT ***DROOOOOL***
           Damn you I'm hard now, time to relieve myself...
           \_ *shrug* Each to his own, I guess.  While I wouldn't throw her
               out of my bed (as if that was a serious possibility) I don't
               think she's all that attractive.  Frankly, she looks kind of
               creepy to my eye.  -mice
               out of my bed (as if that was a serious possibility), but I
               don't think she's all that attractive.  Frankly, she looks
               kind of creepy to my eye.               -mice
        \_ Three years of house arrest?  How do you make a living if you aren't
           Martha Stewart?
           \_ Streaming Internet porn?
           \_ House arrest doesn't mean you're locked in your house 24 hours
              a day. She would most likely be allowed to go out to go
              to a job, buy groceries, etc.
              \_ what job? She's certainly not working in teaching any more.
                 Perhaps the Porn industry could put her to use...
                 \_ Maybe...
           \_ Posting bathing suits in teens' magazines.  BTW are there teens'
              magazines specifically for male?
              \_ Yes.  Playboy.
           \_ I bet there's a possibly lucrative book deal in this for her.
              \_ I bet you didn't RTFA which says she agreed not to profit from
                 her crimes as part of her punishment.
        \_ "Fitzgibbons said in July that plea negotiations had broken off
           because prosecutors insisted on prison time, which he said would be
           too dangerous for someone as attractive as Lafave."  Attractive
                                        \_ that just means "white and
                                           middle class"
                                           \_ Perhaps in the general case.
                                              But in this specific instance,
                                              she is at least not ugly.  She'd
                                              probably be pretty hot if she
                                              loses some weight doing hard
           people get preferential treatment.
        \_ Check out the 2/8 motd thread on a similar case.  Devra Lafave's
           newly-wed husband's pics were all over the net.  I wonder how he
           walks around without people checking out his pants to see if he's
        \_ When you were 14, depending on how old you are, she was either in
           highschool busy fucking highschool boys, or in your class, fucking
           the cool kids.
           \_ when I was 14, she was running around in her jammies.  i doubt
              she had even named her parts yet.  in my time the teachers were
              smart enough not to get caught....
        \_ Where's NAWBLA when you need them?
        \_ Back when I was 14, I found women in their 20s most attractive.  Now
           when I am 35, I still find women in their 20s most attractive.
           \_ When the women were in their 20s, they find non-geekazoids
              attractive. When they were in their 40s, they still
              find non-geekazoids attractive.
        \_ Why should what she did be illegal? IMO it's more a problem with the
           teacher-student power structure than the age of the boy. I don't
           really understand the rationale here. What if the boy was 16?
           \_ What if it were a male teacher and a female student?  What if
              it were a male teacher and a male student?  There are any number
              of reasons parents should be able to expect their school
              teachers to not be sexually involved with their children. -tom
           \_ age of consent is 16 in FL.
           \_ Um, the whole purpose of going to school is to learn math,
              science, grammar, civics, &c. not this sort of immorality.
              As a taxpayer, I certainly don't want teachers doing this
              sort of thing.
              \_ Clearly, you're a homo.
                 \_ I know you are a troll, but I said "teachers" so as
                    to include behavior by teachers of both genders w/
                    students of either gender. So how does that make me
                    a homo? And perhaps you should reserve judgment until
                    you hear my argument re 14th amend. equal protection
                    and garriage.
                    \_ If you're for garriage, you're a homo.  If you're
                       against garriage, you're a closet homo.
              \_ No, I agree teachers doing that kind of thing should be
                 fired. But I don't see why this should be _illegal_ with
                 prison sentences. Or in the general case, if she wasn't
                 his teacher.
                 \_ Because 14 year olds are children?  Have you actually
                    seen a 14 year old recently?
2005/11/22-23 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40690 Activity:nil
11/22   Is there a native process in Unix (SunOS 5.7) that logs port traffic?
        Barring that, do you know of any good software that would do the trick?
        SdTFW for "logging port traffic unix" but not finding what I'm looking
        for. TIA. --erikred
        \_ tcpdump -w
        \_ snoop.  Ethereal.  -John
        \_ snort?
        \_ You want something solaris native, 'snoop' is it.
           \_ Once again, motd >> Google (and my google skills). Thank you.
2005/11/22-24 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:40691 Activity:kinda low
11/21   In windows I can disconnect anyone who's using shares on my computer.
        How do I disconnect from shares I'm using on another computer--for
        instance because I'm using a common computer and I want to revoke my
        \_ right-click and hit 'disconnect'?  -John
        \_ "net use /?" from cmd shell.  --sky
           \_ No, not a mapped drive.  I mean I browse to \\server\dir and want
              to close the explorer windows and when I browse again I get
              \_ Uh, as sky said: net use.  It has nothing to do with whether
                 the drives are mapped.
              \_ "net use \\server\dir /del".  On the other hand, please tell
                 me how to disconnect anyone who's using shares on my computer.
                 \_ Right click on My Computer > Manage > System Tools >
                    Shared Folders > Sessions
2005/11/22 [Uncategorized] UID:40692 Activity:nil
11/22   What's the difference between a spa and a jacuzzi?  Thx.
        \_ Jacuzzi is a brand name.  -tom
           \_ I see.  Thx.
2005/11/22-24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:40693 Activity:nil
11/22   "Beginning Perl" vs. "Picking Up Perl", which one is better for
        learning Perl from scratch?  I know C for more than a decade but don't
        know any Perl.  Thx.
        \_ if you can borrow it, borrow Beginning Perl, it's a quick easy
        \_ if you can borrow it, borrow Learning Perl, it's a quick easy
           read, makes for a good intro.
           \_ Programming Perl may be just as good of a choice or better.
2005/11/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40694 Activity:moderate
11/22   Yay, Fox News takes an AP story and does the global search and replace,2933,176345,00.html
        \_ They forgot to replace 'insurgent' with 'homosexual America-hater.'
        \_ Fox also removed the name of the AP Reporter.
        \_ Aren't all bombs "homicide bombs" by definition?  Suicide bomber
           conveys more information than homicide bomber.
           \_ I think "homicide bomb" may fail to suggest that the bomber
              is also sacrificing his own life.  "suicide bomber" is fine
              for me.  Why don't we just call them "murder bomber" if we're
              \_ Doesn't "suicide bomber" fail to suggest that the bomber is
                 also sacrificing (and intends to sacrifice) other people's
                 lives? (I do think it's stupid propaganda.)
              \_ "Sacrifice"?  That almost denotes something halfway noble.
                 And why is calling it "murder" propaganda?  -John
                 \_ I guess my only real point is that "homicide bomb"
                    and "homicide bomber" just sound stupid.  We get it,
                    they're murderers.  They're bastards.  Yes, we get it.
                    But they also committed suicide.  They're... suicide
                 \_ because murder signifies that we are in the right;
                    realize that a lot of the insurgents do it out of
                    revenge for lost loved ones in the war, and feel as
                    righteous and justified as we are in this war.
                    leaving it as suicide bomber is a more neutral term.
                    \_ Um, this is one of the stupider things I've read in
                       a long time.  WTF?  Who gives a shit "why"?
              - looks
                       like a pretty clear case to me.  There is no fucking
                       justification for it.  None.  At.  All.  And don't
                       give me shit about "he was aiming for combatants" or
                       "yes but xyz is also murder."  I don't want "neutral."
                       It's brutish, malicious, primitive and criminal.
                       Ergo, "murder", QED.  -John
                       \_ same thing US troops just did/have been doing.
                          death = death, eye for an eye
                          \_ This is the same kind of idiotic, cowardly
                             equivocation I hear from a lot of pseudo-intel-
                             lectual types here.  (a) US troops don't target
                             civilians and (b) if they do it's a crime and
                             should be punished.  Go away.  -John
                    \_ My revenge against the Americans is to blow up a
                       Jordan wedding party!  (Or a bunch of school kids,
                       Jordian wedding party!  (Or a bunch of school kids,
                       take your pick)
                       \_ sure, soon as you lose a son, brother, close
                          friend, etc, you may feel differently
                          \_ No, I can say with pretty much 100% certainty
                             that losing any number of friends and/or
                             relatives will not result in me wanting to
                             blow up completely unrelated innocent people.
                          \_ Whoever you are, when you lose a relative or close
                             friend for whatever reason and decide that mowing
                             down a pile of civilians with your car is the
                             right answer, please make sure to do this far far
                             away from here.  You're a nutter.  Thanks.
                             \_ I'm just exploring the muslim psyche.  It's
                                not what I'd do personally - I've got too
                                much to lose.  Your average Iraqi/
                                Palestinian probably doesn't.
                                \_ Why not?  They're not human?  They don't
                                   love?  They don't have parents and children
                                   and wives and husbands?  Are their lives
                                   truly so empty because they can't get an
                                   XBox360 on the first day at Walmart?  What
                                   exactly is so valuable about your life that
                                   isn't about theirs?
                                   \_ Their family might have been wiped out,
                                      their home destroyed, no job prospects,
                                      no hope for the future.
                                      \_ So that would inspire one to strap on
                                         a bomb and blow up a wedding in a
                                         different country full of people who
                                         were most likely sympathetic to your
                                         cause and loss.  Good plan.
                                         \_ The Jordan bombing was stupid.
                                            Suicide bombers have been
                                            brainwashed and/or weren't that
                                            clever to begin with
                                            \_ You understand that these were
                                               higher ups in the Iraqi branch
                                               of the Al-Q organisation, right?
                                               These were not teenagers pulled
                                               from some West Bank slum.  These
                                               were leaders, not the brain-
                                               washed masses.
                                            \_ So what?  Even if they are, they
                                               are committing a conscious act,
                                               and are almost always driven to
                                               do so by someone else (the
                                               "higher-ups" mentioned above.)
                                               Trying to "understand" is fine,
                                               but a lot of this sounds much
                                               closer to justification.  -John
                  \_ The English usage of "murder" denotes something more
                     personal. While both "murder" and "homicide" are
                     technically correct, homicide is much drier, less
                     emotionally connected.
                     \_ s/denotes/has the connotation of/
2005/11/22-24 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:40695 Activity:kinda low
11/22   Emacs users: Do your fingers get tired of pressing the Ctrl key
        so much?
        \_ No.     -mice
        \_ I use Kinesis keyboards where they map CTRL to thumb
           operation and I've been really happy since then.
        \_ No.  I don't use the cntl keys for everything -- I try to spread
           basic navigation between both hands, and leave special functions
           to my left.  So far, this has worked very well for me.    -mice
        \_ No.  Actually I've been using only the left Ctrl and Shift keys
           (instead of both left and right ones) for emacs and everything else,
           so as to train my left pinkie which is the weakest.  It works.
           -- piano player
           \- if you are C-f/b/n/p too much, you are probably not doing
              something correctly/optimally.
              \_ My keystrokes are far, far from optimal.  But then I press
                 a lot of C-a C-e C-a C-e ...... out of no reason but boredom
                 anyway, so being optimal is not my concern.  BTW I bind C-q /
                 C-z to scroll down / up one line, and I use them a lot.  Also,
                 I don't swap Caps and Ctrl on my PC keyboard.  -- piano player
                 \- if you dont use incremetnal search to move, you may want to
                    consider that.
           \_ what piano piece(s) are you working on?
              \_ I like Chopin's short pieces like Nocturnes and Etudes.  I'm
                 not good enough to play any of his long pieces.  With a kid in
                 in the family, I rarely practise now.  But on the rare
                 occasion that I play, I find that over the years my left
                 pinkie have gained strength.  Now I don't need any wrist
                 action when playing the low notes.  I think it's nice to write
                 code and get paid at my job while training my fingers at the
                 same time.  BTW, if anyone still remembers the Sun4's in 260
                 Evans and the TVI920c's in Evans basement, those keyboards
                 were even better for training fingers even though they drove
                 me crazy when a project deadline was coming up.
                 were even better for training fingers too even though they
                 drove me crazy when a project deadline was coming up.
                 -- piano player
                 \_ oh my god yes.  I recall how stiff those keys were to
        \_ No, I play FPS games and bind walk and crouch to shift and ctrl.
           I can press them all day with my pinky. But I was amused to notice
           that after recently not playing for 6 weeks or so, the next time
           I tried both my hands got really tired.
           \_ Nostromo is calling you! (Belkin)
              \_ lame, it's not even a mouse
        \_ Yes. very. Emacs and screen both kill my pinky finger. switching
           the caps and ctrl key helps, but doesn't make it go away.
           Ultimately, using *nix less helps the most.
        \_ Yes, so I switched to VIM. -emarkp
        \_ As a vi user, no, but doing HTML kills them (all of the <>s and
           \_ ouch.  html is for html-editors
        \_ No, and don't be such a baby.  -meyers
2005/11/22-25 [Reference/Tax] UID:40696 Activity:nil
11/22   Are there still tax breaks for buying hybrids for personal use?
        \_ If I recall, there'll be new tax credit starting January 1st.
           Don't know the detail, though.
           \- what about google arbitrage?
2005/11/22 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:40697 Activity:nil 70%like:40699
        Prius vs. Civic Hybrid. Winner-- Civic Hybrid. GO HONDA!!!
        \_ What's the point of doing a comparison with a Prius that's at least
           three model years old?
2005/11/22-24 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:40698 Activity:moderate
11/22   Any CSUAers ever apply or go to business school? I'm thinking about
        applying, and just wanted to see how common/rare that was for CSUA
        \_ I know vallard did. -jrleek
        \_ Yeah, I did.  Going to NYU right now. Seems like more than a
           quarter of the people are engineers of some sorts. --vallard
        \_ randal's currently at Haas.
        \_ I'm cross-registering at Sloan and finding it to be
       a very worthwhile.  --darin
           very worthwhile.  --darin
        \_ hm, I'm considering applying in fall myself ... - rory
        \_ I'm applying to INSEAD for 2007--there are a lot of tech guys doing
           MBAs, who want to go beyond pure operations or development-type
           jobs.  -John
           \- oh i have some associate who teach there. i will have them
              crush you. why dont you go the the university of opus dei?
              \_ I, too, have some associates who teach there, and they
                 will crush your associates (strange hairy hiker geeks who
                 practice the janitorial arts do not count as associates,
                 by the way.)  -John
        \_ I heard the best combo of degrees is a BS in CS or EECS from
           Cal/Stanfraud/whatever plus an MBA from MIT.
2005/11/22-24 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:40699 Activity:nil 70%like:40697
11/22   Prius vs. Civic Hybrid. Winner-- Civic Hybrid. GO HONDA!!! (
        \_ What's the point of doing a comparison with a Prius that's at least
           three model years old?
        \_ The correct title is "why I like the Civic better than the Prius"
2005/11/22-24 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:40700 Activity:kinda low
        Proof that when the economy is good, more people fuck and
        make babies. Recession=fewer babies, dot-com=lots of babies.
        Human beings are like cockroaches. When you give them food,
        they reproduce a lot.
        \_ Umm, and this wasn't obvious? This is just a corollary of the
           fact that people try to avoid spending money (babies cost a lot)
           when they feel like they've got less of it.
        \_ Only in the short term, in general, long term prosperity
           produces lower birth rates.
        \_ At current global growth rates, we'll have something like 40
           billion people in 100 years, 15 trillion in 200 years ... The
           growth party will eventually stop and if history is any guide
           it's going to be "demand destruction" in the most painful sense
           \_ Thomas Malthus... Paul Ehrlich... Anonymous MOTD poster...
              Man, that's a rich tradition of accurate forecasting of
              over-population doom and gloom.
                \_ Actually famine and population decimation has been pretty
                   normal throughout all of history, including recent
                   times.  Witness Darfur, Rwanda, etc.
           \_ Don't worry, antibiotic/drug resistant AIDS, malaria, cholera,
              tuberculosis, flu, pneumonia, etc., famine, and war will knock
              down human populations well before the 40 billion mark.  Hell,
              we might have uncontrolled antibiotic-resistant pneumonic
              plague, too.
              \_ For humanitiy's sake, stop participating FightAIDS@home and
                 help reduce human population.  Yeah, really!
           \_ Do your population estimates take into account that as
              economic conditions improve people become less fecund?
                \_ This is where the "at current global growth rates" bit
                   kicks in.
                   \_ IOW, no.  Thanks for playing.
                        \_ Something will stop the global growth rates,
                           but it won't be improving economic conditions.
2005/11/22-24 [Recreation/Activities] UID:40701 Activity:low
11/22   Extreme sports safer than most "real" sports.
        \_ I find this article informative.  Thx.
           \- i couldnt get through it all but "studies" like this can
              really hinge on lines being drawn in arbitrary places.
              i forgot the name of the publication but there is a journal
              that publishes the casualty numbers [note, i didnt say rates;
              it is unclear what the deminiators shoild be] for various
              "extreme" sports and i believe "underwater cave diving" has
                                                \- multi-stage UW cave diving
              pretty consistently been among the most dangerous [where
              the criteria is -> dead]. if you look at the expedition pictures
              for one of the famous himalayan climbing expeditions from say
              the 1970s, often 1/3 of the people will now be dead (not of
              old age or heart attacks at home). if you take crude numbers
              like # people who have been issued everest climbing permits
              (and actually venture above a base camp ... particulary on the
              side of the khumbu ice fall) and divide my the number of people
              who have been killed on the mountain, the numbers are pretty
              sobering. many of these people are killed not due to mistakes
              but objective dangers like avalanche or rock fall. and there
              are a lot of "committing moves" like "if the weather turns
              youa re hosed" or "if you get sick here, there is no rescue
              possible". also there are weird cases like the dudley wolfe
              "er, sorry, no sleeping bag for you" incident on the 1938
              american k2 expedition.
              \_ Nobody is arguing that mountain climbing isn't incredibly
                 dangerous.  I think that article was mostly comparing
                 traditional (and dangerous) sports like horse back
                 riding with supposedly "extreme" sports like snowboarding.
                 I'd almost argue that mountain climbing is a fairly
                 traditional sport, and not exactly experiencing a surge
                 in suburban popularity.
                 \_ The article also mentions artificial wall climbing which
                    is supposed to be extreme.  I agree with the article that
                    sports like this are much safer than college football.
                    \- well i suppose i just think "extreme" should be defined
                       by risk, not wardrobe.
                       by risk, not wardrobe. i think it is interesting to
                       see what sports have high objective risks vs severe
                       punishment for mistakes. like in yosemite big wall
                       climbing you have limited weather problems and some
                       rock fall problems no avalanche problem and little
                       problem being rescued and no risk of pulmonary or
                       cerebral oedema. climbing similar walls in central
                       asia exposes you to more risk if you get hurt since
                       the medical facilities are not as good. also in one
                       famous case the clibers were captured by crazy muslims.
                       that risk is also low in yosemite. ok tnx.
2005/11/22-24 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:40702 Activity:low
11/22 (
        A house made up of 747 parts. TOTALLY COOL.
        \_I'm sure it will have more parts than that!
        \_ Is it really for the environment?  Aren't there more useful ways to
        \_ Is it really for the environment?  Aren't there better ways to
           recycle that kind of expensive metal?
2005/11/22-24 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40703 Activity:kinda low
11/22 (yahoo news)
        Staring Jan. 1, the buyer of a new home equipped with a solar
        photovoltaic system may claim a tax credit valued at 30% of
        the system's cost, to a maximum of $2,000."
        So if I install $6666 worth of solar stuff, I can get back
        $2000. Can I install another $6666 worth of solar stuff the
        next year and get another $2000 back?
        \_ What part of "new home" do you not understand?
        \_ "the average U.S. household pays about $1,500 a year for
           electricity."  How do they come up with this number?  I only pay
           about $350/yr for a family of four, even with a thermo pot that's
           powered on 24/7.
           \_ Most of the country is very hot all summer long.  -tom
           \- do you live in ... maine?
              \_ No.  And?
                 \_ YBHBCA: SMALL
                 \_ Your brain has been classified as: small.
                    \_ Are you talking about heating cost?
        \_ Usually it is cooling costs that drive high household energy bills.
        \_ More people (including me) will be willing to install solar panels
           if they can change the regulations to allow a net output of
           electricity from your home into the grid, so as to sell electricity
           to the power provider.
           \_ They do allow net output of electricity from your home
              into the grid; we sell to PG&E at daytime rates, and buy back
              at nighttime rates.  They won't ever give you cash money,
              but they'll credit you for the power you generated.  -tom
              \_ What I mean is that if overall you generate more than what you
                 use, you won't eventually get any money back.  So it's not
                 worthwhile for people who have big roofs but use little
                 electricity to install solar panels.
                 \_ It's not worthwhile to install more than you need; it's
                    still worthwhile to install as much as you need.  -tom
           \_ It can't be too lucrative otherwise everyone starts doing it
              and the infrastructure would have to be redesigned (which would
              be a good thing)
2005/11/22-25 [Uncategorized] UID:40704 Activity:nil
11/22   Threat of federal charges against DeLay grows: (Financial Times)
2005/11/22-25 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40705 Activity:nil
11/22   Do you guys actually like those energy efficient flourescent
        light bulbs that fit into the incandescent light bulb sockets?
        I've been getting a lot of headache from them and after switching
        back to regular bulbs my headaches were gone. I really miss
        the warm tone that the traditional bulbs give, and wish that
        more people use traditional bulbs.
        \_ high wattage fluorescents approach white light.
           use a 32W or 40W compact fluorscent bulb.
        \_ Different brands have different tones, too.  Also, what you're used
           to as "normal" or "warm" is very much not white light and thus true
           white CFLs look bluish.  I've found that Lights of America brand
           bulbs tend to have a longer warmup period but a generally "warmer"
           tone.  --dbushong
        \_ I really don't miss traditional bulbs heating up my room in summer
           while providing little light.  A 13W CFL after warming up really
           does provide the same amount of light as a 60W traditional bulb.  I
           verified it using a lightmeter.
        \_ Fluorescent light bulbs come in a variety of different color
           temperatures and spectrums.  You may want to take a closer look
           at the emissions of your bulb and find one more to your liking
           (find a site that discusses the bulbs used with planted aquariums
           and you'll find more information on this topic than you ever
           wanted to know).  I have some power compact fluorescent torchieres
           that were designed as halogen torchiere replacements that use
           bulbs I like.
2019/02/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:22 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>