Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:October:25 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/10/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40252 Activity:nil
10/25   Iraqi election officials announce Iraq constitution has passed
        link:tinyurl.com/cqk34  link:tinyurl.com/cdcq2  (nytimes.com)
        "The Iraqi electoral officials, at the suggestion of United Nations
        advisers, had also audited a random sampling of provinces in which more
        than 90 percent of voters had approved the constitution. The officials
        said today that they had found no evidence of voter fraud in those
        provinces, which were Basra and Babil, dominated by Shiites, and Erbil,
        a Kurdish province in the north."
        [From the LA Times:]
        "Carina Perelli, the U.N. elections chief, praised the election audit
        and said, 'Iraq should be proud of the commission.'"
        [From the Washington Post:]
        "But while there is still anecdotal evidence of vote tampering, no
        credible evidence of widespread fraud has yet emerged."
        \_ mission accomplished.  we can go home now.
2005/10/25 [Uncategorized] UID:40253 Activity:nil
10/25   "What are you staring at, Mr. President?"
        http://news.yahoo.com/photo/051025/480/ny13710250245
2005/10/25-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40254 Activity:nil
10/25   http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051025/od_nm/croatia_crime_dc
        German robber calls his mom and got caught. HEIL GERMANS!
        \_ Wouldn't you think a bank would take some precautions to
           encase/secure the transport vault for 7.2 million euros to
           make it difficult for one man to rob it?
           \_ Yeah, by hiring the security guard.
           \_ Banks often send regular employees to fetch cash when
              customers want large withdrawals. I don't know about $7.2
              million, but definitely hundreds of thousands.
              \_ "Hey Boss, sorry, I got really sick after that pickup and
                 had to go home.  I was dizzy and the doc gave me some stuff,
                 I'm really not sure what happened to the $7.2m".  :-)
              \_ There was a ca. $25m robbery in Zurich a few years ago--some
                 guys rammed a car into a courtyard where a post office cash
                 transport was being unloaded, brandished SMGs and got most
                 of the stash (they were all caught.)  VW had an ad for
                 its mid-size transport trucks a bit after, with the caption
                 "they could have taken it all along..."  -John
2005/10/25-26 [Reference/BayArea, Transportation/Airplane] UID:40255 Activity:low
10/25   I'm going to be singing at Carnegie Hall and Wintergarden in November.
        The preview shows are this weekend in SF and Berkeley.  Come check it
        out.
        http://www.pacificmozart.org/calendar
        Also, this will be my first trip to NYC.  Is there anything I must not
        miss?  I'll be there a little over a week, so I should have time to fit
        in some good wandering. --scotsman
        \_ Will you be doing any performances in the SFBA around the end of
           December?  I'm dead curious :-)  -John
        \_ NYC sucks. All cities suck. All that traffic, pollution,
           and rude people. Stay in the suburbs, it's better for you.
           \_ Funny, there's no Carnegie hall in the suburbs...
           \_ Does anyone else feel the quality of trolls has gone down since
              the amckee apocalypse?
              \_ What happened?  I read in the minutes that amckee resigned,
                 but there was no explanation from either him or the
                 secretary why.
                 \_ Because he made a very public ass of himself.
                    http://home.lbl.gov/~psb/Articles/CSUA
                    http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA
        \- lobster bisque at the soup nazi. and maybe a few egg cremes.
           my associates liked Ave Q.
        \_ I was just there (first trip) last week. I really liked the
           Lower East Side and Chelsea/Hell's Kitchen. Soho was nice too.
           \- you really should grab a NYker and look at the front
              to see what is going on "about town". it's hard to give
              advice without knowing if you are interested in seeing
              a band, a photo exhibit, illuminated manuscripts etc.
              see what special exhibits are going on at the gug, icp,
              the big museusm etc. oh i also sort of like the cloisters.
              \_ We were going to try to book the cloisters as a 4th venue,
                 but they couldn't fit us.
        \_ The Village is the place to hang.  Late night jazz in basement
           clubs.  John's Pizza on Bleeker.  A trip up to Central Park
           and either the Guggenheim or the MOMA (the Guggenheim is worth
           it just for the building).  Some sort of theater, on or off
           Broadway.  Theater and musems are the areas where NYC really
           kicks the Bay Area's ass.
           Side note: When I was a kid, my family once had to ask someone on
           the street, "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?", but the guy didn't
           take the straight line.
           Congratulations!  -tom
              \_ We were going to try to book the cloisters as a 4th venue,
                 but they couldn't fit us.
        \_ Pick up a Time Out New York for listings of
           concerts/museums/etc. If you are a foodie, it may be worth
           your while to buy/borrow a Zagat's Guide.
        \_ Was just there for the first time a couple weeks ago.
           Don't see The Producers (not as good as you think).
           Central Park is nice if you're with a girl.
           I really liked Menchanko-Tei's (43-45 W 55th St) basic lunch
           ramen -- better than any I've had in West L.A. or Little Tokyo L.A.,
           also about $7-10, and comfy atmosphere.
           \_ last i checked [3 weeks ago], menchanko-tei is on 45th,
              east of lexington, on the north side
           \_ i also liked sapporo, 49th st between 6th and 7th aves
        \_ The Tasting Room is awesome.  -John
        \_ Congratulations!
2005/10/25-26 [Uncategorized] UID:40256 Activity:nil
10/25   What's a good thermal base to buy for warmth (55-65F)?
        \_ http://www.americanapparelstore.com/2001org.html
2005/10/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40257 Activity:nil
10/25   http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051025/ts_nm/britain_mideast_bbc_dc_1
        "Chapman said the new Arabic channel would take advantage of the BBC's
        reputation for fairness and independence in the region."
        Is BBC really fair and unbiased?  I don't usually watch BBC news.  Thx.
           \- Yet did I never breathe its pure serene
              Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:
              Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
              When a new planet swims into his ken;
        \_ All news has bias.  News reports are written and reported on by
           people.  Which stories become news and how big is decided upon
           by people.  People are biased.  "Fair" is not the same as "unbiased"
           and might be achievable in some cases because "fair" is determined
           by the audience and is not an absolute.  The quote above bothers
           me when they say, "... would take advantage of ...  reputation for
           fairness and independence ... ", which makes me think, "We're not
           fair or independent so we need cover", but that's just my take.
        \_ BBC is fairly consistently high quality.  It's not unbiased, and
           if you perceive the bias as being against you, you won't think it's
           fair.  YMMV.  -John
        \_ If BBC is unbiased, then, Al Jazeera would never existed!
           Al Jazeera was founded because the staff *REFUSED* to follow
           BBC's directive of self-censoring reports that annoys Saudi
           Royal Family.  It is funny that Al Jazeera is probably the most
           unbiased news channel (even more so than USA's main stream media),
           yet USA resort to use methods such as shutting down its website and
           even missile to silence them...
           \_ From the article: "Al Jazeera ...... has often shown video of
              hostages pleading at gunpoint for their respective governments to
              withdraw troops. It does not however broadcast footage of
              killings, which are posted on the Internet by militants."
2005/10/25-26 [Uncategorized] UID:40258 Activity:nil
10/24   For those who were forced to read Chaucer.  SHAFT! in Chaucerian
        English:
        http://www.livejournal.com/users/dwenius/54930.html
2005/10/25 [Uncategorized] UID:40259 Activity:nil
10/25   kchang sucks
2005/10/25 [Uncategorized] UID:40260 Activity:nil
10/25   foo
2005/10/25 [Uncategorized] UID:40261 Activity:low
10/25   "We have double sourced that the vice president's chief of staff has
        been indicted," a reporter for ABCNEWS claimed to White House
        communications director Nicolle Wallace this afternoon ...
        \_ url?
           \_ verbatim from drudgereport ... since removed
                \_ headline on http://www.rawstory.com "BOGUS: ABC DENIES DRUDGE
                   LIBBY CLAIM"
2005/10/25-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40262 Activity:low
10/25   Did amckee ever apologize to anyone? Is he squished yet?
        \_ Read the minutes sometime.
        \_ From the minutes, amckee did not apologize.
           He resigned.  But, according to the minutes, he was persuaded by
           those at the meeting to un-resign.
           Personally I still think an apology is in order, but whatever.
           \_ He was also removed from root, and didn't ask to be reinstated.
           \_ I'm sorry you're ugly.
           \_ Did amckee explain why he decided to resign?  That's not in
              the minutes either.  Since most CSUA members do not read motd,
              they have to reply on the minutes for an explanation of what
              they have to rely on the minutes for an explanation of what
              happened.
              \_ Irritating alumni can make kitchen hot.
                 \_ Do not meddle in the affairs of alumni, for they are
                    subtle and quick to anger?
                    \_ Half right.
                       \_ He should apologize to the people he sorried or
                          threatened to sorry.  How many people is that?
                          \_ I never intended to sorry that user, Partha S.
                             Banerjee
                                \- who is the "I" here? --psb
                             \_ It's like the CSUA's own Watergate.  An Enemies
                                List,  the Saturday Night Massacre, the missing
                                email from the psb-politburo exchange, the
                                Vice-Presidential Pardon, and a tainted
                                Imperial Presidency and Cabinet.
                                \_ Why can't it be more like Monicagate, at
                                   least that involved a blowjob.
                                \_ No, Watergate was serious.  This is just,
                                   in the words of a great wise man whose name
                                   is lost to the sands of time,
                                   "U S0 == TeH GHEI, D0)D."  -John
                                   \_ Obviously it's not a "national nightmare"
                                      of Watergate proportions and perhaps
                                      appropriately it ends [although I suppose
                                      "end" may be premature] with humiliation
                                      rather than a convinction, but there is
                                      a "civics lecture" aspect to this, sort
                                      of like there is to the other sorry saga
                                      of Harriet Miers. Maybe Bushco will
                                      suggest character assassinating her is
                                      of HARRIET THE JUDGE. Maybe BUSHCO will
                                      suggest CHARACTER ASSASSINATING her is
                                      like attacking the govt and is akin to
                                      terrorism. (re: humiliation ... I assume
                                      amckee resigned out of a sense of
                                      TERRORISM. (re: humiliation ... I assume
                                      mr. amckee resigned out of a sense of
                                      shame, rather than needing to spend more
                                      time with say Arabian Horses. my apologies
                                      if he was really resigned for other
                                      personal reasons such as illness.)
                                      time with say Arabian Horses. my
                                      apologies if he was really resigned for
                                      other personal reasons such as illness.)
                                      \_ The only lesson in this is about
                                         stupid people and small-organization
                                         politics.  -John
                                      of HARRIET THE JUDGE. Maybe BUSHCO will
                                      suggest CHARACTER ASSASSINATING her is
                                      like attacking the LEAST DANGEROUS
                                      BRANCH of the govt and is akin to
                                      TERRORISM.
                                      personal reasons such as illness.) --psb
2005/10/25-26 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science] UID:40263 Activity:nil
10/25   Civ 4 is out tomorrow!
        http://media.pc.ign.com/media/620/620513/img_3162231.html
        http://pc.ign.com/articles/660/660495p1.html
        "Leonard Nimoy for his amazing voiceover work reading a short
        quotation as each new technology is discovered"
        \_ http://media.pc.ign.com/media/620/620513/img_3162250.html
2005/10/25-26 [Uncategorized] UID:40264 Activity:nil
10/25   Stanfurd giving away free music on itms:
        http://www.tuaw.com/2005/10/24/free-music-from-stanford-university
2005/10/25-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40265 Activity:nil
10/25   Senior Software Engineer opening at Lyris.
        /csua/pub/jobs/Lyris-SeniorSoftwareEngineer
        I am the hiring manager. -- jsjacob
        \_ Permission denied
           \_ Mea culpa. Fixed. -- jsjacob
2005/10/25-27 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:40266 Activity:nil
10/25   How long does an average car battery usually last?  I replaced my car
        battery 3.5yrs ago with an $85 one at a mechanic, and now that battery
        seems to be dying.  I drive the car every weekday.  Thx.
        \_ Anywhere from 3-5 years seems normal.  Mine was just replaced after
           5 years of services after I left my lights on.
           5 years of service after I left my lights on.
        \_ Not all batteries are created equal.  The piece of shit factory
           battery that came with my Mitsubishi died in the first year.  The
           Interstate that I replaced it with lasted 7 years.
           \_ Heh, the crappy factory battery in my Ford Taurus almost made it
              to 7.5 years after 105k.                -mice
2005/10/25-26 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40267 Activity:nil
10/25   Emacs question: after I do "M-x grep -n -e foo -e bar myfile", how do I
        repeat the last grep command?  The help says there's a history list.
        Thx.
        \_ hit the up arrow
           \_ Thanks!  I only tried C-p but didn't think of the up arrow.
        \- who are you? --psb
        \_ Are you just looking for M-x repeat-complex-command or something
           more specific to grep. apropos is your friend.
           \_ Just for grep.  For example, I want to pull up the last command,
              add "-e baz" in the middle, then run it again.
2005/10/25-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:40268 Activity:nil
10/25   Hey, can someone post a list of all the minutes|csua|crap listservs
        and how to get on them?  I think this should be on motd.official.
        Thanks.
        \_ it's called a web page, twink
           \_ what are you talking about, asshole?
2005/10/25-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40269 Activity:high
10/25   http://csua.com
        Uber-lame.
        \_ I suggest that various members of root staff and/or politburo
           are violating the "not being a hoser" clause by sending such
           a stupid message and shutting down a useful service.
           \_ root/politburo had only requested that kchang remove the
              faulty attribution feature. I think kchang took down the
              rest of it all on his own.
           \_ root/politburo clarified that the request was only for
              the removal of the faulty attribution feature.
              \_ politburo wields a big sword in front of kchang and
                 tells him to take out 24HourDiff, then asks him to
                 be nice and put back a useful archiver service.
                 You honestly think that after wielding your
                 big sword [and causing resentment], that he's going to
                 be nice to you again? You fucking fresh politburo
                 virgins just don't understand basic psychology.
                 \_ Inconceivable!  amckee has managed projects with 30
                    engineers flung across the globe (though we were never
                    told why those engineers felt the need to flee), and the
                    the Psychology Dept has classified him as a Critical
                    Psycho Asset.  How can he not know basic psychology?
                    This is in all ways inconceivable.
                    \_ I do not think that word means what you think it means
              \_ It was still an stupid message. What's with the vague
                 innuendo? What's with the idiotic requirement in the
                 first place? Why is energy being spent on that? (Also,
                 the thing about not being a hoser basically suggests he had
                 to shut it down.)
                 \_ Well, amckee wrongly sorried someone based on kchang's
                    attribution.  That must be immensely embarrassing for
                    amckee personally and the politburo in general.  Of course
                    they want to shut it down.  In fact, isn't amckee the
                    only documented case of someone actually doing bad
                    things (rather than merely threatening to do bad things)
                    based on kchang's attribution?
                    \_ I suspect part of the rationale is that, by identifying
                       users this way, it also opens up the door for
                       persecution of individuals that post stuff that people
                       don't find palatable for whatever reason.  I'm just
                       guessing about that, though, based on hearsay that
                       I've heard.  I haven't had a chance to decide for
                       myself whether this is really reasonable.  *shrug*
                       \_ The biggest issue with the attribution feature
                       \_ The biggest problem with the attribution feature
                          is the fact that it was not reliable. Stating
                          as fact to the world that "baz wrote this", when
                          in fact it was written by foo is a problem.
                       \_ But you have to respect how this was handled (sarcasm)
                          No prior discussion a very widely used facility is
                          is going to be forceably shut down and then
                          "Last minute email from root ..."
                       \_ But you have to respect how this was handled
                          (sarcasm) No prior discussion a very widely
                          used facility is is going to be forceably
                          shut down and then "Last minute email from
                          root ..."
                          What does this refer to: "we don't think this
                          is a sorryable offense"?  Are you so delusional
                          to think you could have sorried him for running
                          it in the first place (Politburo edicts now may have
                          retroactive liability?) or that if he didn't
                          comply then you would not have sorried him?
                          Was this an "order" on pain on being sorried or
                          was it a request?  Is the politburo interested in
                          hearing requests to reactivate the service?
                          Thanks for the detailed coverage of the Video Game
                          Tournament though.
                          \_ your facts are confused.
                          \_ your facts are confused. -brett
                             \- is this kinda like how i took things
                                out of context when i provided links
                                to the entire paper trail? maybe you
                                can clarify? It seems the the PP
                                is asking for clarification.
                                "good night and good luck" --psb
                          \_ Uhm, are you addressing me or politburo?  I'm
                             just taking a shot in the dark about why this
                             service is being blamed.  If you're addressing me
                             then your hostility is very very misplaced.
                             \_ I would say he is speaking of the action by
                                Politburo. -someone else
                          \_ Get your facts straight.
        \_ I agree with previous poster who says that process has been
           bungled.  There could have been plenty of discussion from soda
           users via motd or listserv on what to do (if anything) about
           kchang's logging feature, but this resource was not consulted.
           This is the power of Politburo, but Politburo exercised this
           power ... unwisely in this case.
        \_ he was asked merely to put up a disclaimer about the inherent
           inaccuracy of his system.  he chose instead to shut it down.
           \_ kchang was asked twice to remove a feature.  kchang took
              down his motd site. It was clarified by mrauser that
              "Your welcome to turn it back on, but it would be nice
              if you disabled the feature that attributed each post
              to whomever you thought made it" kchang hasn't posted
              the clarification on his website. -brett
              \_ "[T]here is doubt regarding whether your use of CSUA
                 resources violates the 'not being a hoser' clause of the
                 CSUA policy" clearly sounds like a threat.  Perhaps it is
                 unreasonable to expect kchang to play nice after being
                 threatened.
                 \_ [brett's clarification removed after I removed the point
                    requiring clarification]
                    \-So the position is "The pburo believes it is acceptable
                      for mr kchang to include a disclaimer about the accuracy
                      of the attributions and operate as before"?
                      (If you are replying to clarify, and are a root/pburo
                      person, it would be helpful if you would sign your name,
                      for obvious reasons). --psb
                      \_ I'm not a politburrito (anymore, thank god), but
                         given that there's not really anything keeping
                         someone else from doing this sort of thing, I don't
                         see the point in telling kchang or anyone else not
                         to do this.  Asking to take into consideration its
                         effects on motd as a forum (and possibly turn it off)?
                         Sure.  Personally, I draw a line at not noting
                         the inherent inaccuracy of this system.  While
                         amckee should have known better anyway, I think
                         it's pretty lame to attribute posts to people
                         based on circumstantial information without noting
                         that the conclusions are circumstancial too --Jon
              \_ Clarification please.  Many of us have our personal
                 attribution scripts.  Is it acceptable for us to run them?
                 Is it acceptable for kchang to release his scripts so other
                 people can run them?  Strictly for each runner's personal
                 use and entertainment, of course.
                 \_ It's one thing to come to your own conclusions about
                    who wrote what, based on whatever methods you chose,
                    whether it be ps(1) info, w, fstat, the phase of the
                    moon, reading /dev/random, whatever.  It's another to
                    tell others your conclusions ala KAIS without at least
                    letting others know how reliable your conclusions are
                    and how reliable your methods are. --Jon
                    \_ While all answers are replies, not all replies are
                       answers.  I asked very specific questions, and I
                       am really look for answers, and not just replies.
                       Are we allowed to run our own scripts?  Are we allowed
                       to run kchang's scripts, should he choose to release
                       them?  -pp
                       \_ I think it's clear you're welcome to run anything
                          you like for your own personal use.  You're being
                          asked not to take that same unreliable information
                          and post it to the public as if it was a source of
                          truth without noting it isn't reliable and is just
                          a poor guess at best.  Having been accused of
                          posting things by other people when I wasn't even
                          around and then seeing my name next to some garbage
                          later on a public website is just plain wrong.
                          I've had 'magical kchang quality scripts' for years
                          before he started logging&attributing in public.
                          I have *never* used those scripts to "out" anyone.
                          They can't be 100% reliable and it's distasteful
                          and a gauche to do so anyway.
                          \_ Amusing, I had done the same thing. I figured
                             out who the anonymous Freeper was, but just\
                             kept it to myself. -ausman
                             out who the anonymous Freeper was, but just
                             kept it to myself. -ausman
                    \_ Are we talking about the same Berkeley students who are
                       supposed to be semi-intelligent enough to understand
                       that (a) something like motd posting attribution is
                       trivial and irrelevant (IT'S THE FUCKING MOTD, FFS) and
                       (b) they shouldn't necessarily take what an off-site
                       resource says at total 100% religious face value?  -John
                       \_ it isn't just the motd.  it is posted on a public
                          website as if it was truth.  just because you don't
                          care doesn't mean others don't or that their opinions
                          on the subject of being falsely attributed to some
                          really horrendous things don't count.
                          \_ I read it on the Internet, so it must be true.  I
                             guess I haven't been in the US for a while, so I
                             forgot how thin-skinned and whiny people are.
                             Give me a fucking break.  -John
                       \_ they've gotten dumber since you left, Fuzzy.
                          that, and I making a distinction, even if it ends
                          an irrelevant one.  -Jon
                          \_ Just because people have become dumber doesn't
                             mean you have to pander to them.  -John
                             \_ in the end, it's not about them, but about
                                people who wrongly (knowingly or uncaringly)
                                attribute actions to others on false grounds
                 \- hey it's like FBI v. NWA again!
                  http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/3.chilling-effect
                   (see last paragraph)
                       them?  Yes, I am aware there would be a scalability
                       problem. -pp
                                \_ It's common knowledge that kchang's toys
                                   \_ I think kchang knows that his results
                                      are inherently not accurate.  I know
                                      you and I know.   I wouldn't call that
                                      "common knowledge".  --Jon
                                   are inaccurate, so I don't think you can
                                   claim he's actively "attributing actions"
                                   uncaringly, just that his scripts are bad.
                                   Are you claiming he did so knowingly and
                                   intentionally?  Because then politburo
                                   should come out and say so.  -John
                                   \_ I think kchang knows that his results
                                      are inherently not accurate.  I know
                                      you and I know.   I wouldn't call that
                                      "common knowledge".  --Jon
                                   \_ So anyone who finds my name incorrectly
                                      associated with some garbage at his log
                                      will know his toy is inaccurate and not
                                      assume I wrote something that has my
                                      name next to it?  I've seen the stuff
                                      come out in search engines and not all
                                      of us use a name like "John" that will
                                      get 8 zillion hits.  No, you don't think
                                      some person doing a background check will
                                      know or care that it is wrong.  They will
                                      see it and take it at face value and that
                                      is far more wrong than him turning off
                                      his toy or at a minimum making it loud
                                      and clear on each page that his
                                      attributions are no better than random
                                      spew and should not be taken seriously.
                                      \_ And then they will take my kitten away
                                         and make me do the dishes and I won't
                                         be able to go to all the kewl places
                                         because everyone will hate me...
                                         Chill out dude. It's the motd and
                                         there is a disclaimer. If you're
                                         afraid of being tracked for your
                                         beliefs and/or quirks, don't post.
                                         \_ Missing point: I didn't post but
                                            got attributed anyway.
                                            \_ Just disclaim it. Like everyone
                                               in BushCo does. Point to
                                               disclaimer. If getting accused
                                               of doing something offensive
                                               on the net is going to ruin
                                               your future life, your
                                               current/future/both
                                               life really sucks.
                                               \_ You rarely get a chance to
                                                  disclaim anything.  No one
                                                  is going to tell you why
                                                  they made a decision.  As
                                                  far as my life/career, etc,
                                                  you have no clue.  Either
                                                  way, great life or bad, I
                                                  shouldn't get smeared by a
                                                  broken script even if it had
                                                  zero effect on my life.
                                                  \_ So you're worried a
                                                     script will randomly ID
                                                     you as a poster of an
                                                     offensive item even if
                                                     you never post. As much as
                                                     I admire your paranoia, I
                                                     think you're nuts. You
                                                     need to ask root to delete
                                                     your account now just to
                                                     be super safe.
                                      \_ If you're going to go work at a place
                                         that does background checks by
                                         browsing hozerish archives of student
                                         bbs, I am speechless, and I am sorry
                                         at how you have thrown away a good
                                         Cal education.  -John
                                         \_ Nice, also not your place to
                                            determine what sort of place might
                                            read what and what it looks like
                                            in a search engine to an outside
                                            investigator.  When you provide
                                            all of us a dream job with no
                                            background checks and we choose to
                                            go elsewhere, then we'll talk.
                                            \_ I like killin' babies. -hmiers
                                               \_ All hail the power of the
                                                  press/goverment/religious
                                                  ideologues to locate this
                                                  misattributed quote to bring
                                                  down a USSC nominee!
                                            \_ So the rest of the world should
                                               adapt itself to your lack of
                                               career clue?  Get over yourself.
                                               Nobody's interested that you
                                               fiddle litle boys.  I guess
                                               turning this off REMOVES ALL
                                               POSSIBILITY OF ANYONE PUBLICLY
                                               SLANDERING YOU!  -John
                                               \_ I'm glad you are Knower Of
                                                  All.  I feel better now that
                                                  you put up a straw man and
                                                  knocked it down for me.
                                                  \_ Am I wrong?  -John
           \_ Well, no.  "The CSUA Politburo and members of Root Staff
              request that you [kchang] remove the attribution feature
              from your KAIS MOTD."  *One* member of root staff wrote
              that a disclaimer is sufficient in lieu of a full shut
              down, but it seems clear the politburo and the root staff
              as full bodies wanted the service shut down.
              \_ Since I'm sick of reading datasheets, I'll keep on posting.
                 That "*one* member of root staff" was me. --Jon
                          in fact it was written by foo is the issue.
           \_ Thanks for the clarification. -brett
              \- hey it's like FBI v. NWA again!
                 http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/3.chilling-effect
                 (see last paragraph)
                 \_ Which is a reasonable request.  kchang is just being a
                    baby. -emarkp
                    \_ It was phrased as a threat.  As little respect as I have
                       for kchang, he never claimed his toys were
                       authoritative.  The people being babies here are the
                       ones whining about "oh n0es, bad things are being
                       attributed to me on the internet!"  Whatever.  Rampant
                       whiny stupidity just pisses me off.  -John
                       \_ It wasn't the first time someone had complained about
                          the inaccuracy of his attributions.  His rampant
                          whiny arrogance pissed me off. -emarkp
                          \_ Care to explain why he is whiny and arrogant?
                          \_ Fair enough--like I said.  Anyway, re-posting
                             wall & motd and making false attributions (or
                             b.s. ones and claiming they're authoritative)
                             doesn't require csua membership.  Note
                             finger?lwall ...  -John
                             \_ Forgeries (signing a post with someone
                                else's name) are an obvious possibility
                                of (semi)anonymous things like motd.
                                Saying that you've determined who made
                                a post to motd without saying how certain
                                or uncertain you are is something else.
                    \_ It's usually not considered good etiquette to piss on
                       people who provide a useful service for free.
                       All non-morons knew the vageries involved in the
                       attribution functionality and took them with a grain
                       of salt. I'm pretty sympathetic to kchang here.
                       Maybe he could create a version of KAIS MOTD that
                       requires authetentication so it it so longer
                       requires authentication so it would no longer
                       open to the world at large.
                       \_ like root@csua.berkeley.edu?
2005/10/25-26 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40270 Activity:nil
10/25   Suppose I have directories foo, foo/bar, and foo/bar/{a,b,c}. (In
        actuality, there are a lot more files.) I'd like tar to archive
        everything under foo, except for foo/bar/*, except I do want to keep
        foo/bar/a. Unfortunately, tar's exclude patterns seem to take
        precedence over any include patterns, so if I exclude foo/bar, I can't
        then include foo/bar/a. The easiest workaround I see is to just exclude
        foo/bar, and then call tar a second time to append foo/bar/a. Is there
        a way to do this with a single call to tar?
        \_ Use find to generate a file or dir list, your favorite filtering,
           and tar --files-from=<file> to archive the exact list?  append
           will yield basically the same thing, due to lack of indexing in
           tar format.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:October:25 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>