Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:May:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2005/5/11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Religion] UID:37617 Activity:moderate
5/10    "A Baptist preacher accused of running out nine congregants who
         refused to support President Bush resigned Tuesday" Amen.
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7769149
        \_ atheists kill hundreds of millions in 20th century.
           \_ So did Christians.
              \_ no, mass genocide was perpetrated by atheists.
                 \_ Here's a great site that has a lot of evidence against the
                    lie perpetrated by fucks like you that Hitler was anything
                    but a Christian.
                    http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
                    Fuck you.  Hitler was a Chrisitan, and Nazi Germany was a
                    Christian nation.
                        \_ Yup, and Hitler always said he was doing it for
                           God.
                    \_ Was that why the Church was reluctant to save the Jews
                       from the Nazis?
                    \_ Come on!  Hitler was a Buddhist.  Don't you see the
                       swastika on the Nazi flags?  He killed the Jews to send
                       them to the west heaven to meet the Buddha god.
                 \_ Where are you thinking?
                        \_  Hitler was immersed in the occult and he believed
                            he was the antichrist.  The notion that this
                            makes him a Christian is absurd.  A few photos
                            on the net really means nothing.  Let's consider
                            and quotes taken out of contect from the net
                            really means nothing.  Let's consider
                            what the real historians think:
                            link:csua.org/u/c0j
                            Besides the Jews, another 6 million, mostly Polish
                            and mostly Christian, also died in the death
                            camps.  To characterize Hitler as an atheist may
                            be unfair, in which case he is a pagan.
                            This reminds me of the notion that Hitler was
                            not a Socialist.
           \_ Religious right extremists lack basic reading skills in early
              21st c.
              \_ Lefties campaign in churches.
2005/5/11 [Uncategorized] UID:37618 Activity:nil 72%like:37615
5/10    Yes! Rommel did not win North Africa!  They were too lucky in
        other legs of the race.  It's about time someone else got the extra
        help needed to win.
        \_ what?
2005/5/11-12 [Computer/SW/Languages] UID:37619 Activity:nil
5/11    Since when have the articles on http://nytimes.com been double spaced?
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37620 Activity:nil
5/11    King Tut Reconstructed:
        http://tinyurl.com/bbwku (telegraph.co.uk)
        \_ BBC is so much better than our right-wing controlled PBS (which
           by the way can no longer show colorful rabbits to explain about
           gays and lesbians). UK #1, Europe #1, and FUCK AMERICA.
2005/5/11-12 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:37621 Activity:nil
5/11    About the 15-mile-radius restricted air space in DC.  How fast can
        planes fly in low atmosphere?  If it's around 300mph, it'd only take
        three minutes to reach the center.  How is that enough time to scramble
        a fighter jet from ground to reach the plane and then try to
        communicate to the offending pilot, before deciding to shoot it down?
        \_ Wait for a redacted pdf outlining the military's plans, and then
           copy all of the text into a plain text file. The answers will be
           there. --eriikred
        \_ SAM
           \_ Oooo scary, Single Asian Man
           \_ when it gets to the SAM stage, the only choice is to shoot down
              or not, and when a plans is shot down, the wreckage has to land
              *somewhere*.
              \_ It's better if the poor tourists gets the falling debris
                 than plane crashing into something important.
                 \_ yes, like our beloved George Bush.
        \_ believe me, they'll have jets ready by the time someone actually
           breaches the 15 mile circle.
        \_ Why would you want to fly into their airspace when you can easily
           do a Lee Boyd Malvo?
2005/5/11-12 [Health] UID:37622 Activity:moderate
5/11    I started a diet/exercise regime two weeks ago. I weighed 193
        then. My ideal weight is about 175-180. I cut out all fast food,
        soft drinks, and other crap. I ate mostly fruits, vegetables, and
        yogurt with some lean cuts of meat with dinner. I started doing
        20 minutes of cardio every other day and some basic exercises like
        crunches and pushups. I went back to the nurse today and found that I
        have gained 4 pounds. I doubt it is muscle so soon. I also found
        my blood pressure is a little higher than when I started. Is that
        normal? The nurse didn't seem concerned. I have an appointment
        with my doctor, but I was curious what the motd knows. Is this
        typical? --dim
        \_ I have a suggestion about exercise.  Find a way to get exercise that
           involves a sport that is actually fun and interesting.  I personally
           find pushups, situps, and generic "cardio" like running to be really
           boring.  Maybe you'll have the willpower to do that crap every day
           for ten years, but eventually you'll lose interest.  Find a real,
           interesting sport and you can still be getting enough exercise to
           be healthy for decades.  My judo instructor is in his 70's, and
           probably gets more exercise than most 40 year olds because he still
           finds the judo interesting enough to keep him going.
           \_ Yeah, the problem I've had in the past with that is
              getting people together for a sport.  (not a problem with
              judo, but...) LLNL has pleanty of options, so I can play
              something every day at lunch, but if I worked elsewhere,
              I'm not sure what I'd do. -jrleek
              \_ I'll say the same thing to you I say to everyone: judo is
                 the best sport ever, and you should try it.  Judo in Livermore
                 courtesy of http://local.google.com:
                 http://www.amador-judo-jujitsu.com
                 \_ Ha!  I took jujitsu as a teenager, and I've driven by
                    this place and thought about starting again.  Now I'm
                    motd peer pressure. awesome. -jrleek
                    \_ Just to turn the pressure up a notch, I'd like to point
                       out that while jujitsu is a great martial art, judo
                       is also a great *sport*.  This was part of the genius
                       of the founder or judo: he turned a brutal fighting
                       system into a sport that is roughly as dangerous as a
                       track event (but infinitely more fun to play or watch.)
                       Great for kids also.
        \_ http://www.bluesuitmom.com/health/personaltrainer/weightgain.html
        \_ Your weight fluctuates naturally daily.  Read:
           http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet for more.  Basically, you should
           weigh yourself every day and then track the average trend.  Worrying
           about two data points on a whole curve is a bad idea.  If you have a
           palm-based PDA you can download a nifty tool for doing that for you
           at the hacker's diet page.
           \- if you were doing weights, i think a 4lbs gain for your wt level
              after 2wks on a low carb/high protein diet is not at all odd.
              20minutes is not enough. go for 60min. i cannot say more since
              i do not know how chubular you were when you started out. you
              can probably invest about $50-60 in a FAT MONITOR scale. --psb
        \_ I think everyone has a 2-3 lbs delta in weight on a day-to-day
           basis so I wouldn't be concerned w/ a 4 lbs gain.
           BTW, your goal is completely reachable, though it might take
           time. About 2 yrs ago I was in a similar position to you - I
           weighed ~ 195 lbs and wanted to loose weight.  Since I'm
           vegetarian and never really went in for soft drinks about the
           only thing I could cut out of my diet was dairy products and
           sugars.  I cut my cheese and dairy intake by half and started
           drinking my tea w/o sugar.  In addition I started running once a
           week (~ 5 miles) and either walking or riding every 3 days a
           week.  Last summer I started playing Ultimate Frisbee and that
           really helped too. I've managed to get down to about 165 or so.
           week (~ 5 miles) and either walking or riding 3 days a week.
           Last summer I started playing Ultimate Frisbee and that really
           helped too. I've managed to get down to about 165 or so.
           Good Luck!
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37623 Activity:high
5/11    "The army sergeant threatened a prospect with arrest if he didn't
        report to a recruiting station," obviating the need for draft:
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/11/army.recruiting
        \_ ^"The^"A -- A single incident reported by CBS news (and not
        \_ ^"The^"An -- A single incident reported by CBS news (and not
           confirmed by anyone else) is somehow indicative of behavior of the
           entire organization?  You're an idiot.
           \_ http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou050510_mh_militaryrecruits.2602b7752.html
              and http://www.khou.com/images/0505/voicemail.wav for the
              actual voice mail.  But hey you can just attack the news
              organization and ignore reality if it makes you happier.
              Here's a hint, the army is suspending ALL recruiting in the face
              of this and other scandals (recently another recruiter was caught
              doing things like driving protential recruits to their dealer's
              house to get drugs, I don't have a good link to the story.)
           \_ The army is standing down recruiting efforts to investigate.
              Would they do that if they didn't have a suspicion that it
              might be indicative?  You're an idiot.
              \_ The article doesn't say that.  Can you even read?  It says
                 they are "expected to" not that they have done it.
                 Investigating claims is appropriate.  Asserting that the
                 claims are true and represent a general population is not.
                 \_ Can you? "The Army said it is investigating the
                    allegations", "A senior Army officer said
                    Wednesday that the "stand-down" is being ordered
                    not only because of possible misconduct but
                    also because the service has had a difficult
                    time attracting volunteers. The Army wants to
                    assess the stress facing recruiters."
        \_ Forgive my ignorance.  When was the last time a draft was in place?
           Thx.  -- immigrant
           \_ 1973.  Here is a detailed background on the draft:
              http://www.sss.gov/FSbackgr.htm  And other info can be found
              from the links here:
              http://www.sss.gov/Fast%20Facts%20Table.htm
           \_ Vietnam
           \_ According to Kerry supporters, the draft was going to come back
              this January if Bush got reelected.  Oops.
              \_ With recruitment numbers down and tours continually extended
                 do you think it's more likely that we'll 1) withdraw or 2)
                 start a draft?
                 \_ how about 3) we offer incentives to:  keep existing
                    soldiers in place, re-deploy from Europe, hire more
                    recruiters, extend deployments, and worry about a draft
                    only when the shit hits the fan?
                    \_ You haven't been paying attention.  Heard of stop-loss?
                       Military folk are already pissed about being redeployed
                       over and over again.  Hiring more recruiters doesn't
                       help when people simply aren't signing.  We're in a
                       corner.  Either we declare victory and pull out, or
                       we get a draft.
                       \_ Actually I have been paying attention.  Everything
                          I wrote is what Dubya has been doing.  My time frame
                          only extends to the end of his term, though.
                          Are you saying that there is a > 80% chance we will
                          withdraw or draft before the end of his term?
                          I do agree that in the 5-20 year time frame, we will
                          either withdraw, draft, or make joining the Army more
                          palatable.
                 \_ You forgot 4) OUTSOURCE our troops.
                    \_ which is good, cuz those private army are not subject
                        to any rules and regulation. Some of the Chinese
                        vet I've talked to said that when they capture
                        mercenaries, they would just kill them, period.
                        I start to understand why they did that.  and FYI,
                        These vets are Nationalist troops operated in South
                        East Asia in the 1950s.
                 \_ How about 5) create an army of illegal immigrants (they're
                    not subject to U.S. laws), and promise citizenship if they
                    serve well in Iraq. Or, ship inmates from over-crowded
                    California prison or Guantanamo Bay to Iraq & chain them
                    together to do dirty and profitable work that Halliburton
                    is doing. -super troller
                    \_ We already do 5.
                    \_ "An army of foreigners not subject to US law" sounds
                       like a CIA task.
              \_ Which Kerry supporters?
                 \_ No actual Kerry supporters said this. Some people said
                    the draft could be back by June. More historical
                    revisionism from the sheeples.
                    \_ Max Cleland and Howard Dean, aka "some Kerry
                       surrogates".  http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6027815
                       \_ No where in this article does it mention Jan 2005.
                          You are full of crap.
                          \_ Ah.  So you agree that Kerry supporters claimed
                             that Bush will reinstitute the draft, and your
                             only disagreement is over the time frame used by
                             the Kerry people.  OK.
                             \_ Yes. And I think Bush will re-instate the
                                draft in the next 18 months. Tops. -Vet
                                \_ We'll see in 18 months.  That's the great
                                   thing with concrete predictions about the
                                   future -- they can eventually be verified or
                                   discredited.
                 \_ The dozens of cars I've seen around Berkeley with bumper
                    stickers that say "Bush '04 / Draft '05"?
                    \_ Last I checked, it's still 2005.
              \_ "We Democrats have successfully stopped Bush from reinstating
                 the draft.  Once again we Democrats have done good for the
                 American people."
                 \_ Where is this quote from?
                    \_ Someone's ass, apparently. -- ulysses
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37624 Activity:high
5/11    When I was really young, I used to think that suicide bombers were
        stupid because after they blow themselves up, there would no longer
        be any more bombers. I thought that if I had to bomb, I'd just place
        bombs around so that I can live the next day to bomb more people.
        Anyways, as silly as my childish idea may seem, what baffles
        me today is how bombers keep coming and coming, as if they're
        resurrected or something. Where are they getting these people?
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4535323.stm
        \_ theres lots of desperate poor /expendable people in the third
           world.  The _real_ bombers are the ones that are arming the suicide
           bombers and giving them the orders.
                \_ Yes, there is an unending supply of people willing to kill
                   themselves.  The only limitation is on the planning and
                   infrastructure.
                   \_ Because the population is infinite!
                      \_ No, the population just has to reproduce more quickly
                         than it explodes.
        \_ You don't undertand tribal societies very well. When you kill
           one member of a family, the rest of the family is honor bound
           to avenge the death. That is why our campaing to bomb the
           to avenge the death. That is why our campaign to bomb the
           Iraqis into submission is doomed to failure.  We think of
           the self first. They think of the family honor first.
           \_ how is blowing up yourself outside of a line of dudes
              applying for a job avenging your family honor? - danh
              \_ Like I said, you just don't understand it.
           \_ Wasn't it Sun-Tzu or some famous general who once said that
              war cannot be won without psychology? I think this is a perfect
              example where we have superior fighting force that doesn't
              understand anything about psychology. Superior force != winning.
              \_ Li Zi said that if one is
                 willing to give a way his life, he would trigger fear
                 down to thousands of people.
        \_ When Bush decided to invade Iraq 2 years ago, I told everyone that
           it's going to be very similar to how Israelis and Palestians
           fight, that we (and civilians) would be on the receiving end of
           waves of suicide bombings. No one said anything, and some even
           shrugged it off because they're hot blooded and want nothing but
           revenge for 9/11. We have a lot to learn about ourselves.
           \_ I haven't seen the waves of suicide bombings in the US.
        \_ From my what my Syrian and other friends have told me most
           of the bombers either have mental problems or are borderline
           mentally retarded, and thus are vulnerable to brainwashing.
           \_ yes, and your point being...?
              \_ That it isn't cultural.
           \_ From interview given by NPR, most sucide bombers are Saudis,
              Syrian comes in second.
                 \_ How come most armies don't use suicide bombers then?
                    \_ I am not aware of any armies that do.
                       \_ Early on in Vietnam War, NVAs would kill round eyes
                          or S Vietnamese generals, take their clothes, then
                          dress up as S Vietnamese soldiers. They got into the
                          U.S. compound and at the right time, get close to
                          American generals and... KABOOM! In addition, they
                          used a lot of orphaned children (with backpacks) as
                          bombs because they knew that Americans didn't shoot
                          at children. They also wired up dead Americans with
                          bombs so that when they're found, the rescuers
                          would get blown up as well. While these things
                          didn't diminish the US military power, it had
                          detrimental effects on the morale of our troops.
                          Needless to say, I think the NVAs were much better
                          at psychological warfare than Americans.
                          \_ Meh -- I don't think it was so much a matter of
                             the NVA being good at psychological warfare, as
                             it was a matter of the US being so bad at keeping
                             up troops morale (not to mention being crippled
                             by politics from the counter culture back home).
                             There were just so many things wrong with the
                             way the US was prosecuting the Vietnam War in
                             terms of goals, strategy, philosophy, recruitment
                             practices, etc.  Relating the morale of US
                             troops late in that conflict to ANY nation's
                             efforts at psych warfare would be speciously
                             conclusive.
                       \_ The Kamikaze was on suicidal missions, although they
                          used planes instead of bombs.
                          used planes instead of bombs.  I think the US
                          military cannot give orders to go on suicidal
                          missions.  It can only ask for volunteers.  Don't
                          know about other militaries.
                          \_ Japanese had a ton of different ways to
                             commit suicide.  Kamikaze planes are just the
                             most famous.
                             http://www.ww2pacific.com/suicide.html
                             There is at least an oral history of Koreans
                             and Russians suicide bombing tanks in WWII.
                             \_ Luftwaffe pilots did suicide missions
                                when the Red Army was closing in on
                                Berlin.  They fly their planes into
                                bridges taken by the Russians to blow
                                the bridges up.
                             \_ A story that resonates w/ Poles is that
                                Polish prisoners in German camps actually
                                did suicide dives out upper-floor windows
                                to land on top of and kill individual
                                German guards
2005/5/11-12 [Consumer/Audio, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:37625 Activity:nil
5/11    I'd like to be able to use my mp3 player as a rescue os disk as well.
        It shows up as USB HD on most OS.  The mp3 player itself works fine
        as long as I store all of the music on the first vfat partition.  I'd
        like to be able to either install linux onto the HD or store various
        ISO images on the HD and have it boot from it, with menu, so I can
        can select different images.  Anyone know of such method?
        \_ So, you want to boot Linux from USB-mounted disk, which happens
           to be an MP3 player?
           \_ Yes, with an added requirement that it can also boot iso images
              stored on a partition.
2005/5/11-12 [Uncategorized] UID:37626 Activity:nil 57%like:37637
The uncensored messages below this line is a SIMULATION of what motd would
look like if it was run by Conservatives, Religious, Red Necks, and Freepers.
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37627 Activity:nil
5/11    I have a tribute to our great President, George W. Bush.
      .--.   |V|      HAIL
     /    \ _| / GEORGE W BUSH
     q .. p \ /     FREEDOM
      \--/  //      LIBERTY
     __||__//     AND JUSTICE
    /.    _/     FOR THE WORLD
   // \  /
        \_ How people did Bubba Clinton free from oppressive leaders?
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37628 Activity:nil
5/11    Die liberals die! Nuke all Muslims and cure all homosexuals!

I'm George Bush, and I approved this message.
2005/5/11-12 [Recreation/Humor] UID:37629 Activity:nil
5/11    Heh (funny videogame comic).
        http://www.vgcats.com/comics
2005/5/11 [Computer/SW/Security, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37630 Activity:high
5/11    I know kchang's de-anonymizer is putting a crimp in your style, but
        can you people who scp to /etc/motd.public please stop overwriting?
        \_ A little thought should help you realize that's impossible.
           \_ A little quality thought should help you realize that:
              "Overwriting" is being used in the context of "screwing up
              other people's changes".
              If you turn off brain and assume the literal definition of
              overwrite, you might realize you're "overwriting" [literally]
              /etc/motd.public every time you save it in an editor.
              Finally, scp users can reduce frequency of overwriting
              [contextual meaning] by reducing the lag time between the scp
              "get" and "put".
              \_ Well, they should be diffing and merging as the final step
              \_ No, they should be diffing and merging as the final step
                 before putting. This leaves a pretty tiny window for potential
                 overwrites. But can someone tell me how kchang is logging
                 file access? What OS features help with this? I'm curious to
                 know for other possible applications.
                 \_ I signed a pact with Satan
        \_ Hm, how about this feature. If you put in "-anon" at the end of
           your post, then my Ashcroft script will not reveal your id? -kchang
                 \_ Note that "tiny window for potential overwrite" is a
                    longwinded way of saying "that's impossible".
                 \_ it shouldn't be hard to modify motdedit to do this.
        \_ Play nice, or we'll take away your cookies. Or, perhaps, make it
           so that you can't scp the motd. - almighty root
           \_ hmm, maybe make it so that the motd is only editable through
              motdedit and make that a suid file w/ sudo'er perms for everyone.
              everyone should then be anon, and no more scp. yes, I'm replying
              to myself. =)
              \_ I concur. Let's enforce some type of lock/unlock mechanism.
                 \_ Make the trains run on time while you're at it.
                    \_ locking and semaphores - the first step towards fascism.
                       \_ You missed the "enforce" part didn't you?
                          \_ So tell me, if you've done any work with databases
                             or file systems, how useful is a lock that is not
                             enforced?
                             \_ Hey, I didn't realize the motd was that
                                important to you.
              \_ fuck motdedit.  In the ear.  It's not a technical problem.
                 \_ Technically, yes it is a technical problem. Access is
                    provided throuh a mechanism that causes corruption. Any
                    time such a mechanism exists and is exploitable, it puts
                    the infrastructure at risk. Asking users nicely not to do
                    it is not a solution Either you live with the corruption
                    or you fix it. As a CS grad, you should know this.
                    \_ Uhm, we're talking about motd...wtf are you talking
                       about?  This isn't a general "all locks and
                       synchronization are bad" thread, this is a "motdedit
                       is a shitty technical solution which doesn't even
                       really address all the problems" thread.  As a high
                       school grad this should be obvious to you.
                       \_ First of all, tell us why motdedit is broken, and
                          maybe we can come up with something better.
                          \_ Because of patronizing motdedit users.  Anything
                             without patronizing evangelists that works would
                             be better.
                       \_ As important as MOTD is for a bunch of users here,
                          most of whom are CS grads, I'd wager any technical
                          problem could be ironed out quickly. Anyways,
                          whatever, this is your guys' problem. I don't use
                          MOTD and everytime I read it, I feel less inclined to
                          put as much time into maintaining this system as I
                          do. I was offering solutions to a real problem of
                          corruption. But hey, if you people like broken, then
                          broken you get.
                          \_ Broken >> supercilious motdedit nazi assholes
                             Go or stay, use it or don't use it, it's a free
                             country, and nobody is particularly pining for
                             you either way.  Go, and be happy, my son.
                              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
                             \_ No offsense, but go fuck yourself. As root, VP,
                             \_ No offsense, but go eat a carrot. As root, VP,
                                and now president of the CSUA my policies on
                                sorrying non-student accounts is much more
                                draconian than that of my predecessors. You
                                may have been a student once, but our ultimate
                                mission is to provide service to current
                                students - and when people make this a hostile
                                environment, I won't blink to kick them off our
                                server. Although I value the insight and
                                participation of alumni in the CSUA, I'd advise
                                you not to fuck it up for everyone. If you
                                disagree with an idea, then voice your reasons
                                - not some immature tirade and rant. This is
                                not your personal soap box, this is a server
                                for use by university students.
                                xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

                          \_ I suggest we first solve the problem of people
                             posting lines longer than 80 columns or people
                             with their tabstop not set at 8.
                             \_ I suggest pliers or a heavy bludgeon.  There's
                                nothing like broken bones to keep columns
                                down to a reasonable size.
        \_ Hm, how about this feature. If you put in "-anon" or some type of
           identity at the end of your thread, then my Almighty Ashcroft
           script will not reveal your id? -kchang
           \_ How about we just squish your ass right now? -anon
              \_ I wouldn't do that. John Ashcroft is watching you.
                 \_ But...but...I put "-anon" at the end!  Pretty please let me
                    be anonymous? -anon
                   \_ Well I haven't implemented it, I'm just soliciting
                      opinions and should there be enough demand, I'll do it.
                      \_ Anyone who has worked with group-writable files
                         has come to the conclusion that locking and
                         logging is important; I'd like to see motdedit
                         (or something functionally similar like RCS)
                         required.  -tom
                         \_ Because the motd is mission critical!  Seriously,
                            if this were source code, I'd agree.  An anonymous
                            posting board where anyone can add or delete?  Feh.
                            \_ It blows me away how worked up people get
                               about a lame ass world writeable file.
           \_ kchang, I like to troll. the motd is too boring. can you include
              an 'exclude' list of names? ;) we need to revive the motd of
              better topics!!!
        \_ Perhaps the de-anonimizer is a good thing. Its like that old
           Donald Duck count to 10 before you explode cartoon. You have
           to think about whether or not your really want to write that
           comment before you do. It makes the discussion more civilized.
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37631 Activity:low
5/11        ___                  ==
          /  |  \     Peace    //  \\
         /   |   \     and     \\  //
         |   ^   |   Support    \\//
         \  /|\  /     Our      //\\
          \/_|_\/    Troops!   //  \\
        \_ Is this contradictory?
           \_ Depends.
           \_ No.
           \_ Are you John Kerry?
           \_ For years the sign at SAC used to say "Peace is our
              Business."  In many cases the last people who want
              Profession."  In many cases the last people who want
              to fight are the people who train for it everyday.
                \_ The sign actually said "Peace is out Profession"
        \_ Peace is delusion. Propagated by those who still
           feel emotions.
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37632 Activity:high
5/11    During the London Blitz, Churchill toured the damage everyday,
        even sometimes when bombs were falling. A small one engined
        Cessna flys near Washington and the cowards there all run and
        hide. What a bunch of sissies the Republicans have turned out
        to be.
        \_ Is our homeland at war such that we can try to shoot down the Cesna
           at will?  If yes, and those folks still run to hide, I'd call them
           cowards.  Otherwise, I'll call them irresponsible if they don't
           hide.
           \_ Was Churchill irresponsible during WWII?
              \_ Frequently.  That said, op is one of the more insightful
                 things I've seen posted about the current administration and
                 political climate.  It's not about whether you can shoot down
                 a plane, but about the general climate of FUD that seems to
                 have replaced certain ideals of courage and intestinal
                 fortitude.  Sounds corny?  Probably.  But I guess the motto
                 today is "eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into
                 jet engines."  -John
                 \_ Exception: Giuliani.
              \_ Was London not in a state of war during the London Blitz?
        \_ Kerry didn't hide?
        \_ Next time, why don't you take the place of someone
           leaving the building?
           \_ Send me to Washington to represent us, and I will.
        \_ you should have seen Corzine on the Senate floor.  He ran away
           like a woman.
                 \_ That made my day.  Jet engines...heh...    -mice
2005/5/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:37633 Activity:very high
5/11    Mr. McKee,
        You're getting awfully heated in the below conversation.  As
        root, former VP, and now president, you should really cool your heels
        before making pronouncements.  You're treading where a number of others
        have trod to no good effect.
        Words from those with authority (as limited and petty as that authority
        may be) must be wielded cautiously, or you'll find yourself either
        without that authority or with authority over a worthless entity.
        --Another former VP.
        \_ Hey, fuck off. Unlike previous apathetic/pathetic VP/president, this
           new guy is actually showing some interest in making changes. People
           hold on to the past dearly, but it's year 2005 and our motd
           still using 1970 technologies. It's time to let go and move on, and
           give our new guy the benefit of the doubt. Go McKee. I SUPPORT YOU.
           \_ See, unfortunately, lacking historical perspective, you don't
              know that these are either non-changes or changes doomed for
              failure.
              \_ Drink the kool-aide or I'll make new soda a Windows 2003 box!
        \_ I have made no secret that my primary loyalty is to current students,
           these are the people that keep the CSUA alive and purposeful.
           Alumni have many valuable things that can still contribute to the
           CSUA and our students, but we musn't lose focus on what our ultimate
           agenda is - the betterment and enjoyment of current CS students.
           Soda serves as a bridge between the old and the new, but the priority
           still goes to the new. What sort of environment does soda present
           to users we're trying to bring into the CSUA fold, when they see
           tripe and vitriol in such a public form? What sense of community
           develops, when the only impression people get about the CSUA
           soda community is that they're a bunch of assholes? It's not the
           community I want to foster under my watch, and I make no bones
           about working against efforts that seek to undermine the success
           of the CSUA. Perhaps I'm an autocratic nazi like this, but I also
           don't see how mindless insults in the MOTD can be defended.
           \_ The sentiment is quite commendable, but as someone in a
              leadership role (and as an experienced internet user), showing
              restraint is part of the job description.  In general,
              injecting more vitriol into a vitriolic conversation is not
              the best way to calm the situation, show leadership, or
              impress anyone with your own maturity.  As an alum, I'd gladly
              donate services or money to the csua...provided I could be
              convinced that my time/money/effort was going to be put to use
              in a mature, considered way.  It's gratfying to see that csua
              leadership is passionate about the csua, but don't let your
              passion become part of the very problem you're fighting.   -mice
           \_ You're treading the censorship line.  There are many statements
              made on the MOTD that cannot be defended.  They can, however,
              be ignored.  The sense of community, that's up to those of you
              on campus.  It's always been the toughest thing to succeed at
              with this group.  But your autocratic leanings are only going to
              leave _you_ stressed and disappointed.  No one else will care.
           \_ I think the legitimate criticism is in the words you use
              ("go fuck yourself"), not necessarily in your philosophy.
              \_ I've never been one to spare a snide come back, but you're
                 right. I removed that part.
                \_ carrots are crunchy and full of vitamins.  They taste really
                   great when juiced with some beets, an apple, and a smidge of
                   ginger.
2005/5/11-13 [Uncategorized] UID:37634 Activity:nil
5/11    Spoiler photo of villain in Revenge of the Sith
        http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/cl-starwars_ieb8mtkf,0,325490.photo
        (yes it's an action figure)
        \_ There are already pics of him on the starwars site, in the
           trailers, and he was a prominent character in the Clone Wars
           micro-series on Cartoon Network.
        \_ How is this a spoiler?  There are already pics of him on the
           starwars site, in the trailers, and he was a prominent character
           in the Clone Wars micro-series on Cartoon Network.
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37635 Activity:nil
5/11    MOTD poll:  U.S. military draft in:
        2005:
        2006: .
        2007:
        2008:
        No draft: ..
                   \_ The military doesn't need/want a bunch of
                      warm bodies these days.
        Democrates claim draft 2009+ in next presidential election:
        \_ The US will pull out of Iraq if theonly other choice was to have
           a draft.
        Democrates claim draft 2009+ in next presidential election:
        \_ Which Democrates [sic] are saying that?
           \_ Presumably the Democrats who will be running in the next
              presidential election.
        \_ 'Special Skills' draft in 2006: .
           \_ I'm the one who brought that up on motd originally, and I don't
              believe it, at least for it's use during peacetime.  It's for
              when "shit hits the fan":  then you can draft 18-26 year-old
              grunts, as well as 26-40 year-old sysadmins/coders along with
              the M.D.s you can draft under the old plan.
2005/5/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37636 Activity:nil
5/11    Proposal for amckee: add in an experimental /etc/motd.experimental
        where one needs to use a lock/unlock mechanism. Make tracking
        anonymous (but auditable by root if threads start to violate UC
        Regent laws). Then:
        cat motd.official motd.public motd.experimental > motd
        We can play around with it for a while, and see how it goes.
        \_ you don't need to enforce lock/unlock if you enforce editing
           via one command.  motdedit merge works fine, so no need for
           locking. -nivra
           \_ There's already some form of locking in motdedit, although I
              haven't looked at it much to see how it works (or breaks down).
              As the simplest mechanism, we'd only need to make motd.exper
              writable by some special user, suid motdedit to that user, and
              add the all-users group to the sudoers list for that file cmd.
              \_ motdedit uses the normal file lock that standard text editors
                 can use.  It's not an absolute lock that prevents others
                 from editing, obviously.  My point is that one of the reasons
                 people didn't use motdedit, esp. when threads are in heavy
                 debate, is the pain of having to wait while others edit
                 and have the motd locked.  motdedit -n doesn't require a lock,
                 and still prevents overwrites. Thus, you can implement your
                 solution without requiring locks, as long as everyone is
                 using motdedit. I shoulda just made "-n" the default. -nivra
                 [Re-posted after it was overwritten, ironically, enough]
           \_ speaking of which, it just merged my post with this one below
              it. -nivra
        \_ One thing I was thinking of was to create a bona-fide
           threaded interface, something with a database behind it where
           users can post anonymously (but not delete their or other records).
           Nothing revolutionary, by far, but tailor it for something like Lynx
           and automatically generate a 'read-only, most recent' list piped
           to motd.public - something that looks exactly like this. Perhaps
           make it only locally accessible, though (the interface, not the motd).
           Sounds controversial, though, and your idea might be better in the
           short-term, if nothing else.
           \_ http://csua.org/motd
              \_ Haha, fabulous. It always amazes me the sheer quantity of crap
                 on here yet to be discovered (by me, at least). So, uh, why
                 don't we just make people use that?
           \_ of course, most people probably look directly at the .public file
              and it'd be a shame not to be able to do interleaved threading...
           \_ it's called "wall"  -meyers
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:37637 Activity:nil 57%like:37626
The uncensored messages below this line is a SIMULATION of what motd would
look like if it was run by moonbats with an overblown sense of their own
wittiness.
\_ What the fuck is a moonbat?  It's self apparent that it's not funny so
   what is it?
   \_ http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moonbat&r=f
2005/5/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37638 Activity:moderate
5/11    Told you it was the smoking gun:
        http://csua.org/u/c0p (yahoo news)
        \_ Well, the people decide if it's a smoking gun or not, but it did
           appear on http://CNN.com's front page today:
           http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/11/britain.war.memo/index.html
           If you ask me, Dubya et al. will just say they had two bi-partisan
           committees (9/11 Commission and WMDs in Iraq Commission) say that
           political pressure did not change analysts' intelligence judgments.
           Sorry to be trite, but, Paula's getting away with it, why can't
           Dubya?
        \_ Where is the full text of the memo so I can decide for myself?
           \_ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1593607,00.html
              Blair's people have not disavowed authenticity of the memo, and
              have instead said it's "nothing new", and that the UK tried
              hardest to go the diplomatic route.
              Unfortunately, Saddam accepted the UN inspectors when asked,
              and the U.S. kicked them out this time instead of Saddam kicking
              out the inspectors.
              and the U.S. kicked them out this time instead of Saddam.
              Dubya's people told Dubya that Saddam definitely had WMDs and
              that Blix wasn't going to find anything because Blix's people
              were inept.
              Dubya's people == The Stupid.  Dubya == (no words are necessary)
              \_ Check your history. Saddam Hussein never kicked out any
                 inspectors. Last time, they left of their own in advance of
                 Clinton's bombing campaign. It's interesting that otherwise
                 well-informed people seem to not know this. That's not meant
                 to be disrespect, BTW. I just think it's interesting.
                 -- ulysses
                 \_ "kicked them out" is a simple way of saying that in 1994
                    (or was it 1998?) Saddam simply made it impossible for them
                    to do their jobs and so they left.
                 \_ It is a bit more complicated than that. First, they left
                    in a huff because SH was not co-operating, then the UN
                    condemned SH, then SH let them back in, then he kicked them
                    out and Clinton threated SH, then SH let them back in
                    but did not co-operate, then Clinton pulled them out
                    and bombed Iraq in Desert Fox. IIRC. Shit, it turns out
                    to be even more convoluted than that:
                    http://csua.org/u/c12
                    But in any case, at least once, SH kicked the inspectors
                    out.
              \_ See, this is exactly what I thought it was.  It wasn't that
                 Bush had decided to go into Iraq.  It was that Bush didn't
                 think anything other than military action would get Saddam to
                 disarm so given the ultimatum, he expected Saddam to reject
                 anything other than armed conflict.  Smoking gun my ass.
                 \_ "C reported on his recent talks in Washington.
                    There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military
                    action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to
                    remove Saddam, through military action, justified
                    by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the
                    intelligence and facts were being fixed around the
                    policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route,
                    and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the
                    Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion
                    in Washington of the aftermath after military
                    action."
                    The inspectors were on the ground.  Saddam posed no
                    threat to us or his neighbors.  Bush wanted this war
                    and he got it.
                 \_ You're a sick fuck.  I wish there were ghosts so the 100k+
                    people who have died because of this man could twist your
                    soul in every last pit of hell.
                    \_ What 100k+?  The number dead depends on your political
                       bias.  http://csua.org/u/c10
                       \_ It wouldn't have to if we actually bothered to COUNT
                          THEM.  Sick fucker.
                          \_ If the US kept count, then we'd be arguing over
                             the accuracy of the count.  Whether you'd argue
                             for over- or under- counting depends on your
                             political bias, of course.
                             \_ How 'bout we just say "LOTS."  I hope LOTS
                                of ghosts twist your soul in hell.
                                \_ How do you know it's "LOTS"?  When is it
                                   "LOTS" anyway?  Isn't that subject to
                                   interpretation depending on one's political
                                   bias?
                                   \_ How many would not be "LOTS"?  You really
                                      are an obnoxious little bastard.
                                      \_ Exactly.  It all depends on your
                                         personal bias.
                                         \_ No, I think you're an obnoxious
                                            little bastard regardless of
                                            personal bias.
                       \_ The Lancet is a medical journal, it does not have
                          a political bias. It is just reporting inconvenient
                            \_ HA HA HA HA HA!!
                               \_ Let me guess, you are one of those guys
                                  who thinks evolution is an evil plan
                                  to turn our children away from Christianity?
                          facts so the Neocons try and politicize them.
        \_ Oh look, more oil-for-food scandal news!
2005/5/11-13 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37640 Activity:nil
5/11    Maybe this is old news, but there is a mit project to prevent addr
        harvesting from known_hosts files:
        http://nms.csail.mit.edu/projects/ssh
        Their paper on ssh worms propogating via info discovered from the
        known_hosts files is interesting:
        http://nms.csail.mit.edu/projects/ssh/sshworm.pdf
2005/5/11-12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:37641 Activity:nil
5/11    I made a boo-boo in my motd monitoring script and I don't know how
        to fix it. It might go back up, esp. when everyone calms down  -kchang
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:May:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>