Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:January:06 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:11671 Activity:high
1/5     A Poll for the majority of you out there who do not support
        School vouchers:
             Do you think that the advent of FedEx and UPS made the USPS
        better or worse in the long run?
             And, while i know it is ridiculous to expect any sort of
        restraint or accuracy from a motd poll, i am JUST asking anti-
        voucher folks.  Feel free to comment/flame though. -phuqm

        Better: ...
        No effect:
        \_ There's a much better argument for vouchers based on an analogy.
           America has competition in it's university system, which is
           widely regarded as the best in the world, and no competition
           in it's k-12 system, which is close to the worse in the
           industrialized world. Also, we already have school choice for
           those whose parents care enough about education and have enough
           money to move to a town with a better school system.  The
           current form of school choice benefits only those lucky few whose
           parents fall into this category, and already has destroyed inner
           city schools in exactly the way voucher opponents claim "will"
           happen.  The irony is that the people who excersise school choice
           now, by moving to an expensive town to get a good education for
           their kids are the very middle class liberals who most vocally
           oppose school choice.  I also think it's worth pointing out that
           presently the k-12 education system in the US is so bad that
           the burden of proof is actually on those who *don't* want
           change, not the other way around.
            \_ but there are no vouchers for going to a private university
               so that argument makes no sense.
           \_ It's not just the Evil Middle-Class Liberals:
            \_ This is a very good short argument. tnx.  And I plan to steal
                it, and since you didn't sign you name, claim it as my own.
                :).  I have also said the same thing re: burden of proof
                many times, but the college analogy is not perfect since
                1.) it has always been there.  (i.e. no sudden change is
                involved) and 2.) even at the cheapest of public Us the
                student still pays some. -phuqm
            \_ I would say the same thing about the burden of proof re:
                health care.  Would you?
                \_ yes, actually.  perhaps you've mistaken me for a
                   conservative?  I happen to agree with the conservatives
                   on school choice, but that does not mean i support their
                   love of the insurance industry.  For the record, I'm
            \_ K-12 education is simply not that bad nationwide. What makes
               you think that it is? If you compare us to other industrialized
               nations, we do fine. Our worst schools are far worse, but that
               is true for everything in America, due to the income disparity.
                   also not a libertarian, and am ashamed to agree with
                   "phuqm" on any issue.
        \- I am not sure what you are suggesting by mentioning school
           vouchers. Are you going to suggest "since the existence of
           FedEx improved USPS, we should have subsidized FedEx"?
           maybe that would have "benefitted the taxpayers" but that would
           have benefitted the fedex stockholders much more. i think the
           better question has nothing to do with school vouchers. the usps
           is obligated to deliver mail to everybody for the same price.
           i assume there is no reason fedex cant charge more to send a
           package to a cabin in the montana woods [or just refuse to
           deliver there ... surely they arent obligated to have an office
           near by or poll the denizen of said cabin 6 times a week to see
           if he has anything to mail]. so if fedex gets to cherrypick
           routes and packages, do what extent does that adverse selection
           put the usps in a bigger and bigger hole. you should lay your
           cards on the table. --psb
            \_ Are you against vouchers?  If so, please vote.  I will
               happily "lay [my] cards on the table" soon, but i'd like to
               get some votes first. (you seem to be suggesting "worse")
               \- i think the vouchers will be underfunded and will be a
                  total boondoggle. the way they might cause some improvement
                  is by causing the teachers unions to keel over or maybe
                  the unions will panic enough to be more reasonable. but
                  it would seem to make more sense to just take on the unions
                  directly. i think if money is given to decent private
                  school and they are continually allowed to pick their
                  students you will have the quality of the schools improve
                  but the students getting shafted now will continue to be
                  shafted. it's hard to be "for or against vouchers" since
                  it isnt self-evident what you mean by them. --psb
            \_ Subsidising is beside the point.  The USPS pays
               for itself.  Taxpayers already do more than "subsidise"
               EDU, they pay for it outright.  My suggestion is that, imho
               the USPS has gotten markedly better since FedEx and UPS have
               arrived on the scene.  Since the only reasonable objection
               to vouchers is that it will make the existing public schools
               much worse, I would suggest that this is an indication that
               it might not.  Your point about CherryPicking is highly
               pertinent though, and I think that it is obvious that any
               legislation re: vouchers should attempt to address the
               problem of voucher schools rejecting hard cases.  ( Which
               has been a major problem in the "corporate" schools in SF
               and other places ).  Self-selection is an insolvable problem
               but I believe that advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.
               \_ The point here is that private schools already exist, so
                  there is already a FedEx equivalent. I don't relate FedEx
                  to vouchers in any way. --dim
                  \_ But parents are forced to double pay.  I can choose not
                     to ever pay the USPS but even if I pay full rate to put
                     my kids in private school, I am also paying full rate
                     for them in the public schools which I'm not using.  If
                     vouchers meant that money was no longer a double payment
                     you bet your ass the public schools would improve... right
                     after breaking the spine of the very evil teacher's union.
                     \_ Union bad! Neocon Hulk smash!
                     \_ Ah, but "parents" aren't the only ones who pay for
                        public school. Childless taxpayers put into the system
                        too. Do they get their money back too? You are for
                        private school for extra performance, by your choice.
                        Why pay for an airplane ticket when your tax money
                        already pays for the interstate road system?
                        \_ If you don't pay into the system for education,
                           you end up paying down the road with crime and
                           prison costs.  Even if you libertarian gun nuts
                           take over, and all justice is meted out by
                           vigilantes, uneducated masses of criminals will
                           cost you time in gunning them down when you could
                           be doing something profitable.  Remember,
                           time is money.
                        \_ I think the university argument is a good one. There
                           are no vouchers for university students and those
                           who go to private colleges still end up paying to
                           support public colleges. If there are no vouchers
                           for universities and it works so well then maybe
                           vouchers aren't the answer. --dim
                           \_ BZZZT!  University isn't a requirement.  I'm not
                              required by law to send my children to a U. but
                              I am required by law to send them to k-12 (or
                              until 18 or whatever age).  If U. attendance was
                              required then the same voucher concept would
                           for universities and it works so well then maybe
                           vouchers aren't the answer. --dim
                              \_ You are required to *PAY* for a U, though,
                                 whether you send your kids or not. --dim
        \_ Delivery service is like utility companies. There isn't enough
           of them to compete for free market, and instead, each and every
           one has a monopoly in it's small niche. UPS delivers big packages,
           Fedex delivers next day reliably, and USPS delivers mail. All
           three domains end up not really competing with each other, and
           all three end up overcharging the consumers. Like utility companies
           I think delivery service should be highly regulated.
           \- i dont mean to insult you but this is too confused to be easily
              corrected. you may wish to read a book like "optimal regulation"
              by K. Train, although you will probably need to read some
              prerequisits ... not sure how far you will have to recurse.--psb
           \_ you know that by law fedex and ups are not allowed to deliver
                 \_ so there's no real freedom in this market, as I said.
              regular mail or touch your mailbox, right?  the market is not
              even remotely free.
              \_ Yeah and FedEx and UPS aren't required by Congress to deliver
                 mail to BFE at the same price as the house next door.
                 \_ so there's no real freedom in this market, as I said.
        \_ The teacher's unions are the largest unions in America.  They
           have a monopoly on public education monies and are not
           constrained by the Hatch Act like federal employees.  Guess
           who they donate almost to exclusively, and why the Dems
           are so anti voucher.
           \_ The teachers' union comprises under-paid and largely
              idealistic people who see kids for 8 hours a day (i.e.,
              more time than the kids' parents). They are well-educated
              and know they could earn more money elsewhere (the ones
              who couldn't earn more elsewhere can't teach and leave
              the profession). I have no problem with the teachers' union.
              I have a problem with the administrators who never taught
              and never intend to teach and who get paid ridiculous
              amounts of money only to squander the meager budgets of
              their districts.
                   \_ I know lots of teachers like that. And I know teachers
                      who have left the profession and made more money
              amounts of money only to squander the meager budgets of
              their districts.
                \_ HOLY SHIT IN A CUP!  I don't think you've actually *met*
                   any teachers!  Under paid?  Idealistic?  8 hours?  Well
                   edjumikated?  Earn more elsewhere?  Leave the profession
                   because they can't teach?  *None* of these things are
                   generally true.  I think I've been trolled.
                \_ Well there is no incentive to get rid of the
                   whose incentive is to increase their budget and number
                   administrators.  The ratio in the 1950s was 5:1 teacher
                   to administrator, today it is 2:1.  The private schools
                   whos incentive is to increase their budget and number
                   cost is ~ 3000$ per student, the public > 7500$ per
                   student.  The public cost per student is something
                   like 30% higher than in the 1980s but test results
                   have declined.  The inner city schools are nothing
                   but affirmative action self-perpetuating bureaucracies
                   whose incentive is to increase their budget and number
                   of employees, not educate children.
                   How I Joined Teach for America -- and Got Sued for
                   \_ private schools get to pick and choose students.  The
                      ones that would cost too much to educate (the disabled,
                      the retarded, the violent, etc) get the boot while the
                      cheap ones get welcomed.  It is the 90% for 10% of
                      the cost type situation that exists everywhere.
                   $20 Million
                   As for pay, if you prorate it over 12 months they are not
                   underpaid in a majority of communities.
                   \_ Are you referring to that article as a source for your
                        \_ No, but here's more:
                        The Union That Killed Education
2004/1/6 [Recreation/House] UID:11672 Activity:nil
1/5     Am I supposed to give tips to moving company employees who do the
        final delivery and assembly of my furniture?
        \_ I used to do this job.  It's not fucking hard to do, but it's
           really hard to find decent people to do it for some reason.
           Don't take any shit from them.  just don't give them a tip unless
           they do their job properly.
           Me and my buddy who used to do this would pull up at exactly the
           time we were supposed to, roll out of the van running, take our
           shoes off so as not to fuck up the carpet, assemble the furniture
           exactly where it was supposed to go, and get rid of our trash,
           all without damaging anything.  Once I had to go out on a delivery
           with one of the other fucking clods  who did it, and he wanted to
           stop for donuts every ten minutes.  show no mercy!  give no tip
           to hozers who do not deserve to call themselves delivery men!
           if a "delivery man" earns a tip, give him one.
           \_ Thanks for the answer, but how much should I give for a good
              job?  There will be 3 to 4 of them.
              \_ it's not like waiting tables--there's not percentage based
                 tip algorithm.  we dilivered to some *really* rich people,
                 and when they saw us sweating buckets but being polite and
                 doing a good job, they might give us as much as 20 dollars
                 each(there were always two of us), or they might give us
                 nothing.  We also delivered to a lot of working class homes,
                 and were extremeley happy to get 5 bucks each or even just
                 a couple bucks if they looked poor.  If you give them
                 five bucks each, and say "lunch money", they should be happy,
                 if they are true delivery men.  that means they don't have to
                 pay for lunch.  We were always happy with five bucks each.
                 it's too bad being a delivery man pays so bad; we were
                 damn good at it.
              \_ minimum $20 each or they'll rape you, your dog, and your gf.
                 \_ That poor dog!
           \_ On behalf of a grateful nation, thank you.
2004/1/6 [Uncategorized] UID:11673 Activity:nil
1/5     Another fucking fascist who needs to stfu and get her face punched in.
        \_ look, i *like* trolls, and I even liked this one...the first time.
           why not find a new troll, instead of re-posting the same one
           with a new tag line?
        \_ you seem...very angry.
        \_ While I generally disagree with her you've made her point for her.
2004/1/6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Recreation/Activities] UID:11674 Activity:nil
1/5     Is it legal to put a laser guide on your putter? -new rich golf player
        \_ golf isn't pointless enough without cheating?
        \_ Not sure.  Is it legal to beat you over the head with it?
           \_ hmmm. time to go watch "falling down" again.
        \_ no it isn't
        \_ If you're so rich, why not buy the CSUA 3 21" LCD monitors for
                \_ because politburo is full of assholes and you guys
                   squished me so I have no sympathy for you poor ars
                   students. Oh and thanks for the entertainment on motd  -op
2004/1/6 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:11675 Activity:nil
1/5     How easy is it to forge a ski lift ticket? ok thx.
        \_ the forging part is easy.. just to make it look well...
           however most resorts use a keyword (or phrase) on the face
           of the ticket that changes each day. so you will have to get
           to the resort.. see the tickets.. then go someplace where you
           can print the tickets for that day.
           \_ also, some places (i think Sugar Bowl is one) have different
              colored tickets everyday.
                \_ that is fine. My primary concern is how easy it is assuming
                   you have a perfect legit copy. For example, say 6 buddies
                   go in a van, and only 1 buys the ticket, then it's easy
                   to duplicate it. The only problem is the texture of the
                   ticket (waterproof) and the ink (ink jet is usually not
                   waterproof), which I don't know how to solve yet.
                   \_ That's easy!  Buy 6 tickets each day you cheap ass!
                      \_ No dude!  You can't let the Man get j00 |>0\/\/|\|!1!!
        \_ Forge a season pass instead.
        \_ Gosh, I kind of feel bad.  This was a pretty well-crafted troll to
           try to draw out a loud moral type.. I just rolled really well on
           my saving throw.  No cookie I guess, though it's not your fault.
2004/1/6 [Uncategorized] UID:11676 Activity:nil
1/5     Where can I find the detailed prices of nonconsumer goods?
        Are they all collected by the Feds as transactions take place?
2004/1/6 [Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:11677 Activity:nil
1/5     Who cares if the US government had an innocent man tortured
        for 10 months. He was just a Canadian:
        \_ Heh.  "Had."
        \_ Canadians aren't citizens.  Why should I care?  Shit happens to
           American citizens in foreign countries all the time.  Are you on
           here bitching about that?
           \_ Yeah, Americans are raped and genocided everyday everywhere
              around the world.  Why do you just hate America?
2004/1/6 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:11679 Activity:nil
1/6     Maybe my google fu is not strong enough, but I had trouble finding
        anything about this. Is there a way to make rsync use a rolling
        average of actual data transferred in say, the last 5 seconds?
        Right now, if you resume a transfer, the portion you already have
        will obviously "transfer" very quickly, but rsync uses this transfer
        rate in its ETA calculation, which becomes totally inaccurate.
        \_ I have just one thing to say to you.  USE THE SOURCE, LUKE!
2004/1/6 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:11680 Activity:nil
1/6     How do I post to newgroup with an email account I don't have access
        to? Thanks.
        \_ Use your mad el8 haxz0r skillz!
2004/1/6 [Computer/SW/Virus] UID:11681 Activity:nil
1/6     There's anti-virus, and then there's the way the Japanese do it:
        \_ I asked a Shinto Priest about technology while I was back there
           last April:  --erikred
                \_ That's pretty cool.  I stayed at this place when we were
                   in Japan: .  The proprietor
                   is the head priest of the local Shinto shrine, which was
                   kind of amusing (really nice guy).  The web site kind of
                   threw me, though.  -John
                \_ They should have won the war. Then, Asia would be ruled
                   by Asians instead of whities right now, reducing Western
                   sweat shops for Kathy Lee Gifford and the evil Western
                   \_ Your formatfu sucks, and you have an amazing knack
                      for reading what you want into just about anything.
                      Care to tell us about your mother?
                      \_ We don't have to ask about yermom.  We already know.
2004/1/6-14 [Consumer/Audio] UID:11682 Activity:nil
1/6     Entry-level NOC jobs at They're pretty low level, but
        but if you're good, you'll advance fast. Mail
        \_ Looks like we have some openings for more senior SysAdmin types
           as well if you're interested. -ccook
        \_ For those who don't know a NOC is the Network Operations Center.
           NOC people generally sit around and watch pretty lights, reboot
           machines and type what they're told.  If they do it right they
           can eventually get a job where they can make a decision.  NOC
           is pure entry level stuff (as the op says).  Usually these are
           shift jobs and the new guy gets the night shift.
           \_ This is fundamentally correct, but 1. you won't necessarily
              get the night shift (it's a new NOC) and 2. We're (mostly me)
              attempting to get smarter people than a typical NOC would
              have and going to give them more interesting work on the
              side if we feel they're's definitely still
              very entry-level though. Thanks. -ccook
              \_ btw, I wasn't trying to be an asshole.  just explaining what
                 the typical NOC job is to the entry level folks.  sorry if
                 I came off that way.  it wasn't intentional.
           \_ don't NOC night-shifters just end up playing Counter-Strike,
              or is that just a false rumor?
              \_ the day shifters do at the ISP one of my client companies has
                 their hosted machines.
           \_ Just read to see what Noc guys do.
              Mostly Quake and nethack according to them.
                \_ I have 2 Indian friends who will work for the price of 1
                   American, but the catch is that they need a company to
                   sponsor them for H1B greecard. Can your company do that?
2004/1/6 [Transportation/Car] UID:11683 Activity:nil
1/6     If America uses the English system, then why do American cars
        use Liters in specifying engine displacement?
        \_ American drug dealers also use the metric system.
           \_ Not pot dealers, though.  Also, "8-balls" of cocaine
              \_ what's an 8-ball?
        \_ So are small car tires, using mm.
        \_ Ever heard of a 454?
           \_ To the person who said no, it's 454 cu inches displacement.
              Also seems to correlate to 6 cylinders with 4-inch
              diameter and 6-inch stroke length
        \_ Hell, you think that's weird, think tire specs: 215/65R15
           that's 215 mm, 65%, and 15 inches
2004/1/6-8 [Finance/CC] UID:11684 Activity:high
1/6     I was paying my credit card bill the other day and the guy behind the
        counter commented on the fact that I've never carried a balance.
        I've always paid my bills, in full, on time.  Would there be a credit
        rating advantage to carrying a small ($20) occasionally, or would I
        just be wasting small change on interest?
        \_ You don't need an 800 rating to get all the credit in the world.
           I've got a 730 or so and I'm good for $100k credit line just for
           \_ where do I check my rating?
              \_ for example.  There's a fee.
              \_ In CA you're entitled to a free credit check each year.  Or
                 did congress fuck that up for us?
                 \_ Don't credit checks adversely affect your credit rating?
                    \_ Not the ones you order for yourself.
                 \_ Has anyone on the motd in CA ever done this?  Hadn't
                    heard of this option... (have always had to pay, is it a
                    recent change?)
                    \_ It's not free. You do have to pay. If you have been
                       refused a credit card, THEN you can et a freebie. FICO
                       always costs.
                       \_ you mean even if you get refused a credit card, and
                          you request the freebie, you still can't get your
                          credit rating(FICO?) unless you pay?
                                \_ exactly. you get your report w/o the score
                                        \_ what is FICO exactly?
                                           \_ Fair Isaac Credit Org.  It
                                              is basically your credit
                                              rating.  Affects your
                                              ability to get credit
                                              related financial
                                              transactions (such as CC,
                                              mortgage rate, even
                                              insurance rate!).
2004/1/6-8 [Transportation/Car] UID:11685 Activity:nil
1/6     I want to have a car for probably a little less than a year but don't
        want to bother with all the effort, time and perhaps money (in case
        I have to sell it in a hurry) wasted on buying and then selling one.
        Snould I lease one or rent one for long term?  What are the places/urls
        to look for a good deal?
        \_ RIDE BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
           \_ Thanks for the troll.  Actually I do a lot of things by walking
        \_ get a 12 month lease.
        \_ get a 12 month lease.
        \_ get a 12 month lease.
        \_ get a 12 month lease.
        \_ get a 12 month lease.
              and bus, but car is sometimes indispensible. -op
        \_ Lease if you're not going to put a lot of miles on it.  I've never
           heard of a long term rental.
        \_ get a 12 month lease.
2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics] UID:11686 Activity:nil
1/6     Nothing wrong with a bit of capitalism to take advantage
        of trendy righteous indignation:       -John
2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11687 Activity:nil
1/6     I've changed my mind about Dean.  I'm a conservative non-Republican
        who was previously in favor of Dean because I figured he'd get
        crushed (I still think this).  I read the WSJ write up on him
        yesterday and they explained at great length and detail how he's
        really a silver spoon money bags pro-business north easterner with
        a deep background in trading, business, and wall street.  Right up
        my alley as a candidate.  So Bush vs. Dean is the ultimate win/win
        for a non-(R) conservative like me.  They had a shorter writeup on
        Clark who would also be a win/win for people like me.  So I say,
        Go Bush!  Go Dean!  Go Clark! and in a pinch I'd be ok with Lieberman
        if that's what happened.
        \_ But what about his opposition to the war?  This seems to me the
           major issue of the campaign, and its why I support Dean.
           \_ He's a governor.  He didn't have to vote on it during a hot
              political time when everyone else voted 'yes' on it.  If he was
              a senator or congressman I'm sure he would have.  I think his
              anti-war stance is a fraud created to set him apart from the
              others and give him the 'outsider' look he needed.  If you're
              an outsider, (and as someone with no federal experience, he is),
              you might as well play it up. --op
        \_ I'm a fairly liberal voter, and I tend to agree with you.  I think
           a vote for Dean is about the same as a vote for McCain.  I also
                                        \- dean is pro-life? --psb
           think Dean's the only candidate out there with any chance of
           beating Bush, so Dean benefits from my utter hatred of his opponent.
           It's not a great scenario for a social lib like me, but I'll take
           what I can get.
           \_ Why do you have 'utter hatred' for Bush?  I never understood that
              from you libs.  I would have preferred a different President in
              some ways when Clinton was in office but I didn't 'utterly hate'
              him.  I didn't 'utterly hate' Carter either although he was one
              of the worst Presidents we've had, maybe ever.  --op
              \_ What was so bad about Carter?  I ask not as a lib but as a
              \_ Bush is an arrogant, cocky, shit talking SOB who never
                 worked a day in his life, never studied hard and got
                 everything he ever wanted because of family connections.
                 I would dislike him in any case, but his politics make
                 me utterly disdain him. He is a reckless and dangerous
                 individual who should not be allowed to operate heavy
                 machinery, much less the country. -!op
                 \_ seconded.  I'm giving more money to dean's campaign
                    than i've ever given to any campaign in my life, and
                    if the democrats fuck this up again, I'm leaving the country\
                    and training for the revolulution in northern canada.
                    I'm ready to go to war if needed to fight the bush types
                    of the world.
                    \_ Good riddance
2004/1/6 [Recreation/Food, Finance/Shopping] UID:11688 Activity:very high
1/6     How much can i expect to pay for a cheap lunch in london?
            \- Ask for Cheep Bubble and Squeak --psb
        \_ Cheap:  3-4 pounds.  Decent (primarily Indian or Kebab):  5-10
           pounds.  Or you can grab a sandwich for about 1-3.  There's
           some pretty mangy food there, though.  -John
           \_ i don't know why this was overwritten, but thank you thank you
              thank you!  my faith in the motd is restored!
        \_ What?  WTF?  Walk into a cheap looking place and read the menu.
           \_ dumbass, I'm not in london right now.  That's why I'm asking.
              I need to estimate my travel expenses for a trip in the *future*
              not the present.
              \_ Useless.  You can't estimate to the penny what it will cost
                 you.  It will *always* be higher than you expect.  It's a
                 first world nation.  Prices will be similar.
                 \_ head...hurting...idiocy...aghck!!!
                    \_ Sorry if it was so hard to figure out that a McNugget
                       here will cost about the same as a McNugget there.
                       \_ I think McNuggets are a little more expensive there
                          because of how the dollar has been sliding.
        \_ If you know where to go, about 3 quid.
           \_ thanks, but since I have no idea where to go, can I assume 5-10
              per meal?  I'm looking for a ballpark estimate assuming both
              frugality and ignorance.
              \_ Go to Yes, you'll have to register for
                 a freebie trial, but trust me, this is _the_ mag to have
                 access to.
        \_ so why are you making a trip to london when you are tight on money?
           \_ jesus fucking christ you people are amazing.  I'm not tight on
              money, and I'm not paying for it anyway.  I just have to sketch
              out a rough budget for the trip, and like to save money on
              general principle.
                \_ London on the whole is terriffically expensive.  For
                   good food you generally can't go wrong with Indian or
                   Bangladeshi--you'll want to hit Brick Lane in any case.
                   There is _no_ decent food in the City/financial area. -John
2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11689 Activity:nil
1/6     Go Bush: Bush pro-immigration:
        \_ It's all about bringing in cheap farm labor so you can eat your
           all vegan diet instead of paying the real cost for your food.
           \_ good for economy, good for national security, good
              for immigrants, good for Mexico, good for the Bush, good
              for the country.
           \_ But those cheap labor are sending money to their home countries,
              hurting US economy.  Plus they are breaking the law and they
              are cutting in front of those waiting in line for years to
              immigrate legally.  I guess nobody cares about the law and
              fairness these days.
              \_ what if it is a separate queue?
2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11690 Activity:nil
2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11691 Activity:nil
1/6     NPR has a radio-only Dem. presidential primary debate.
        \_ So why did you erase the discussion below this?
2004/1/6 [Consumer/Audio, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:11692 Activity:nil
1/6     4GB ipod mini: flash based, size of credit card, $249
        \_ don't get this, for $50 more you can get a full Ipod at 15gb.
           Reminds me of the days when they had the original Mac. vs.
           the Mac XL (refurbed Lisa). The size is't that much smaller.
        \_ it's hard drive based
           \_ I stand corrected. -op
        \_ the above poster is probably right -- you can't buy 4 GB of
           flash memory for $249.
        \_ Apple lied.  they tried to quell the rumor that they were releasing
           the product.
        \_ Does anyone know if it uses the IBM Microdrive? That's the
           only thing that would seem to working in that ff.
           \_ IBM never made the microdrive cheaply or in quantity.  There's a
              4.4-gig drive from GS-Magicstor and a 1.5-gig from Cornice.
2004/1/6 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:11693 Activity:nil
1/6     I wanna post to newsgroups but not with my real email address
        due to spam. What are some ways to get around it? Thanks.
        \_ hack your nntp client!
        \_ why are you using a client that uses your real email?  go sign
           up for a real usenet service if you care or use a bogus spam-only
           email address.
2004/1/6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:29743 Activity:high
1/5     Re: stupid sfgate troll thread below.
        Sweeping generalizations are bad, mmkay people?
        \_ I'm sure you get this all the time, but just in case:
           you're an ass.
           \_ Oh, sweeping generalizations are good?
              \_  no, but contentless posts about how some other post is
                  a troll are dumb.
2004/1/6 [Recreation/Dating] UID:29744 Activity:nil
1/5     Hello csua women, do you think hairy chest hair is sexy? -hairy guy
        \_ chest hair that itself has hair? that's more bizarre than sexy.
        \_ Considering the number of csua women, how can you hope to get an
           accurate survey?
           \_ good point.  we should have changed fields a long time ago.
2004/1/6 [Transportation/Car] UID:29745 Activity:nil
1/5     Yahoo! News photos - Auto Shows & Concept Cars: Jeep Rescue
        Gee.  What a great way of coming up with a new model line!  Just put a
        magnifying glass over an existing model line (Wrangler), and here you
2018/12/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:January:06 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>