Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:17 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12278 Activity:high
2/16    The other day, someone on MOTD suggested a mandatory draft in USA
        as a sort of social lesson for everyone.  Here is a commentary by
        Daniel Schorr on what is the real issue behind President Bush's
        National Guard record.  It vividly display one of the acute
        problem with mendatory draft:
        http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1678830
        \_ Here is a comment on mAndatory service rather than the link above.
           The problem with mandatory service is that the only big contries
           built on it have been dictatorships, communist or otherwise.
           \_ rest deleted because it was too stupid to live.
           \_ Hello, modern-day Germany has mandatory service.
                \_ Yes and they're progressively getting rid of it, because
                   various studies have shown it to be a great place to
                   introduce impressionable adolescents to drugs and neo-
                   nazis.  Also, usually, becoming an officer in European
                   armies is voluntary, but requires a huge time commitment-
                   most modern empoyers frown on this, meaning that 'shit
                   floats'.  Lastly, most democratic countries with a draft
                   have either gotten rid of it, or are in the process of
                   doing so.  It's expensive, it takes a huge social toll,
                   and doesn't create a terribly good military (Germany's army
                   has some _incredible_ problems.)  Don't forget that the US
                   had a draft until the 70s;  most of the smart people (plus
                   Bush) got out of it, meaning you ended up sending the
                   underclass off to war--against their wills.  Modern-day
                   conscript forces are clunky, usually undertrained,
                   underfunded, highly incapable, and thoroughly unsuited
                   to modern warfare.  Look at the Swiss army, one-time
                   example of quality--it's a complete joke nowadays.  The
                   only working examples of conscript armies are those in
                   countries under direct military threat (e.g. Israel) where
                   most people see the need for large-scale participation in
                   defence.  I don't see the Mexican army massing at our
                   southern borders anytime soon, do you?  -John
                   \_ Mexico is already sending thousands across the boarder
                      every night.  If that isn't an invasion, I don't know
                      what is.
                      \_ And 90% of Canada's population is massed within 100
                         miles of the US border!  They _must_ be preparing to
                         invade!
                         \_ They've already invaded, but no one cares b/c
                            they already "look" american and speak the king's
                            english.
                            \_ Bloody monarchists!  Who elected Elizabeth
                               queen?
           Kennedy's appeal to young people's idealism is a classic populist
           sound bite that perverts the fundamental premise of liberal
           democracy, namely that the government serves at the pleasure of the
           electorate and operates within the boundary of a robust legal
           system.  Having the people labor at the mercy and command of the
           state in the name of sacrificing for their country, and commandeer
           their time and property is, well, you know what it is.
                         \_ They've already invaded, but no one cares b/c
                            they already "look" american and speak the king's
                            english.
                            \_ Bloody monarchists!  Who elected Elizabeth
                               queen?
                               \_ <insert Monty Python's Holy Grail reference
                                   here>
                                  \_ What, the curtains?
                               \_ She was elected?
                         \_ Hey, good way to ignore our completely open
                            borders and make a mockery of an important issue.
                            \_ Oh, that's right, I'm supposed to take your
                               "Barbarians are at the gates!" line seriously.
                               Relax, boyo, they're not here for any job that
                               you want, and we'll boot them if they dare to
                               organize or demand human rights.
                               \_ Yeah anything outside your little ivory
                                  tower world just isn't important.  We must
                                  mock that which we disagree with because we
                                  have no other points.
            \_ I wrote the original draft post. Although realistically a
               strict military draft isn't the way to go, I still think a
               program of public service could be designed in such a way as to
               be beneficial. It wouldn't really be a draft per se. There are
               a lot of different types of service other than "military
               grunt."  It would have to be incentivized in ways other than
               oppressive force. Related to the "underclass", with the current
               system I often hear stories of poor people who feel forced into
               the army economically. Some woman in the South Carolina debate
               I think gave a sob story about that, about her son who died in
               Iraq.  The gov't TV ads emphasize learning job skills and
               getting money for college, not getting killed by Arabs. So that
               issue is still present even without a draft. [formatd]
               \_ by Arabs, or Bosnians, or Somalis, or Nigerians, or Afghanis,
                  or North Koreans, or Palestinians, or Kuwaitis, or anyone
                  else I've forgotten that's been shot at or shooting at any
                  Americans in the last few years.
        \_ Just admit that you're afraid to fight for your country. Then
           truly appreciate those that are less fortunate than you, enough
           to lose their lives so that you can go on.
           \_ I'll fight for my country.  I'll fight to make sure it doesn't
              end up in the hands of boneheads like you.
              \_ What was boneheaded about it?  Is everyone posting on drugs
                 today?  Is this backwards day or what?
2004/2/17 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:12279 Activity:moderate
2/16    You can call the end of cheap oil "tin foil hat" hysterics, but even
        according to documents from ExxonMobil it's true:
        http://csua.org/u/60q
        (see page 4)
        lower 48 state oil discovery peaked in 1930
        lower 48 state oil production peaked in 1970 (note 40 year gap)
        world oil discovery peaked in 1964
        It is now 40 years since 1964
        It is not the end of oil ... it is the end of *cheap* oil upon which
        our entire way of life depends.  Is this so wacky?
        \_ this is baloney. the world now has more known reserves than before.
           the largest amount in saudi arabia. also extraction technology has
           improved so yield are higher. YMWTS:
           http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/BLOG/OnOil-psb.txt --psb
           \_ Phew! Some handwaving from psb!  With no facts, charts, etc., to
              back it up!  I can go to sleep tonight now!  He's "pretty sure"
              there are more known reserves!
                    \- by volume there certainly are more known reserves now
                       than ever before. i am not sure whether what this
                       volume means in time terms, i.e. flow or consumption,
                       volume means in terms time, i.e. flow or consumption,
                       it depends on how they do the projection. i was being
                       is at a all time peak or not ... and if so, obviously
                       it depends on how the do the projection. i was being
                       honest and candid. the "other side" usually is not.
                       e.g. see the hatchet job down on the "skeptical
                       environmentalist". there are several reference so
                       more authoritative sources in that mail. see e.g.
                       "power to the people" for the most recent ref.
                       i'm sorry if i disappointed you if you were expecting
                       a 4 color chart. --psb
              \_ Read "The Skeptical Environmentalist" -- the author points out
                 a bet someone made (in 1990 IIRC) that in a decade 3 resources
                 would be cheaper and more plentiful.  Three people took him up
                 on the bet and all lost.  It turned out that *every* resource
                    \-that is the julian simon vs paul erlich bet. --psb
                 was more plentiful and cheaper (inflation adjusted) after a
                 decade.  If oil becomes more expensive to acquire, it will be
                 economical to pursue other sources of oil or more expensive
                 extraction techniques.  If all the oil disappeared overnight,
                 \- helo i am not an eco freak oil alarmist but it is fair
                    to say oil prices contain a lot of hidden subsidies and
                    these may artifically depress innovation in other energy
                    options. just like there are some pretty obvious subsidies
                    for "alternative" energy sourcest there are some really
                    obscure subsidies for oil [like the govt dredging
                    channels for oil tankers]. ok tnx. --psb
                    \_ the subsidies are for the pumpers, processors, movers,
                       and sellers.  the end user eats all of that plus some
                       high taxes on it and is still quite happy to drive
                       high use, low efficiency vehicles.  oil is still easy
                       enough to get and will be for the foreseeable future
                       but i agree with your basic point 100%.  eventually oil
                       use will be too expensive and etc as you say but not
                       yet, perhaps because my tinfoil hat has a whole or my
                       RF shielding unit is low on power.
                 it would be a problem.  But as costs rise, alternatives will
                 be viable.  No chicken-little syndrome necessary.  -emarkp
        \_ I wouldn't say "entire way of life". There are other energy
           technologies that would become more cost-effective if oil wasn't
           so dirt cheap. It will lead to changes but massive global
           catastrophe is tinfoil hat territory. Although that could happen
           regardless.
        \_ Yes, it is wacky because the technology required to get to the
           deeper reserves continues to advance.  We can relatively easily
           reach oil reserves today that we couldn't even have found in 64.
           They were saying the same shit all through the 70's.  We were
           supposed to be out by 1980, then it was 1990, then it was 2000 for
           sure, now it's...?  Wake me up when we run out if I haven't died of
           old age by then.
           \_ Please pay attention ... We are NOT running out.  Production will
           \_ 3x as much?  Bullshit.  That would mean we're running off oil
              found decades ago and we should have run out in the 70s, or was
              it the 80s, no wait, they really meant the 90s, oh damn, uhm,
              let me check with my personal numerologist and get back to you!
           simply slowly decrease after the peak.  We are using 3 times as much
           oil as we discover each year ... So that can't last.
2004/2/17-18 [Recreation/Food] UID:12280 Activity:nil
2/16    New strain of mad cow, and perhaps more cow->human cases as well.
        Time to stop eating brains.  (NYTimes) http://tinyurl.com/2h4un
        quote: I would advise the managers of cattle abattoirs to sell the
               meat only to lower-class butcher shops.
        \_ Proof apparent in motd ramblings!  Film at 11!
           \_ heh
        \_ Don't eat beef because of mad cow. Don't eat seafood because of
           PCB and mercury. Don't eat fruits and vegetables because of
           pesticides. Don't eat bread or pasta because it's not Atkins
           friendly. Don't eat margerine or butter because of transfats and
           cholesterol. Is there anything left to eat? Frankly, I think we
           should just eat whatever the hell we want and stop listening to
           media warnings.
           \_ Fruity Crack is still safe, right?
           \_ Remember, Tuesday is Soylent Green day.
              \_ Soylent Dean.  "My God!  His campaign!  It's made of people!"
                 \_ thanks for the free laughs, I needed that today.
           \_ You forgot not eating poultry because of Asian Bird Flu.  Me,
              I think it's all a conspiracy by the pork industry to bring
              back the other white meat.
              \_ Don't forget scrapie in sheep...
                 \_ who eats sheep?
                    \_ Roast lamb is delish!
                       \_ lamb is one of the few things I can't eat.  it's
                          hard to describe but it just tastes weird and feels
                          weird in my mouth.
              \_ Eat organic!  Eat vegan!  Eat vegans!  Eat me!  -sax
                 \_ do you have omega-3 and omega-6?
                    \_ I think humans are nutritionally fairly similar to pork.
                       \_ But taste like chicken.
2004/2/17-18 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:12281 Activity:nil
2/16    If I plan to fly several times a year between US and asia, is there
        a way to get lower fare (other than accumulating mileages)?
        \_ do you know in advance when you'd be flying?  perhaps you'll
           find the reverse round trip (asia->us) less expensive over there.
        \_ from asian travel agencies such as the following:
           H.I.S.  http://www.his-ny.com/sanfrancisco/index.html
                (in japanese)
           http://www.iace-usa.com/html/english.html
           \_ HIS got us roundtrip airfare from Japan to four stops in the US
              to Europe and back for $1200/person.  Very nice.
2004/2/17 [Transportation/Car] UID:12282 Activity:kinda low 51%like:12288
2/16    Does anyone know what was the story with the guy who went insane in
        his car on campus on sat evening and started to drive into things
        and had to be hauled out of his car and beated by the CPs? it was
        pretty cool. --psb
        \_ You're making this up.
2004/2/17 [Uncategorized] UID:12283 Activity:nil
2/17    I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Tinfoil hats *do* *not*
        keep out the Government's mind control rays effectively you need a
        real RF enclosure like this:
        http://www.djmelectronics.com/rf-screen-rooms.html
2004/2/17-18 [Recreation/Celebrity/WilliamHung] UID:12284 Activity:high Cat_by:auto
2/17    William Hung to perform on the Ellen DeGeneres show today.
        \_ i dont get it but whatever.
           \_ We weep for you.
        \_ Ugh... I wish he'd stop letting himself be exploited. That "Shake
           Your Bon Bon" dance was painful to watch.
2004/2/17-18 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:12285 Activity:kinda low
2/17    The weird weather in Europe might not be global warming:
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994684
        \_ Of course it might not be. It might be caused by alien mutants.
           Trust no one.
        \_ God damn it!  I'm so sick of hearing about global warming!  What
           happened to the perpetual winter I was promised when I was a kid?
           Where is my never-melting snowman?!
           \_ The goddam Russkies rolled over on us.
2004/2/17-18 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:12286 Activity:high
2/17    When will this story explode in the mainstream media?
        http://www.csua.org/u/61b
        \_ Dude.  Who the fuck is the moron peak oil troll?  Is there some
           bored 9-5 wage slave who has nothing better to do with his time
           than change his troll alteregos like gloves?  One day he's a chicom
           troll, the next he is a peak oil troll, next week he ll probably be
           the judomason troll.  WTF!
           \_ Hm.  Well, I posted the original thing about Peak Oil, but all
              of the posts since then haven't been me - maybe I inspired some
              poor liddle twoll who didn't have a topic of his own?
              -- !peak oil troll
           \_ What's 'judomason'?  I've never heard of that before.
              \_ obgoogle: http://www.catholicism.org/pages/masonjews.htm
                 \_ objackass.  the term "judomason" appears nowhere in
                    your link.
                    \_ You don't have to be a genius to try "jew mason".
                       Actually I'm not the guy who said judomason but it's
                       pretty simple to see what it refers to. Unless you're
                       some kind of dumbass.
                       \_ No, that would be "judeo" not "judo" which I think
                          is an asian martial art.
2004/2/17 [Uncategorized/Jived] UID:12287 Activity:nil
2/16    A tip fo' fobs, dig dis: if youse not sho' nuff if de wo'd be some
        noun o' some verb, addin' ".exe" may clarify wahtahmelluns.
        \_ Is dat supposed t'be some joke about bad-ass honky talk?
           ah' duzn't git it.
           \_ google.exe fo' excel.doc
              \_ Yo!  Ah peep dat.
                 \_ DO U GUYZ GOT A SKRIPT THAT DOEZ TH1S OR SUMTHING???
                    CAN U MAKE 1T AVAILABLE 2 THE REST UV US?!?1?!?
                    \_ /usr/local/bin/jive, /csua/bin/b1ff
                        \- U REWLE!!1
2004/2/17-18 [Transportation/Car, Uncategorized/Jived] UID:12288 Activity:high 51%like:12282
2/16    Does anyone know whut wuz de sto'y wid de guy who went insane in his
        wheels on campus on sat evenin' and started t'roll into wahtahmelluns
        and had t'be hauled out uh his wheels and whup'ed by de CPs? it wuz
        pretty cool. --psb
        \_ Youse makin' dis up.
           \- go walk around the front of hertz hall --psb
              \_ From the police blotter:
                 http://csua.org/u/61q
                 Strange entries....  --erikred
2004/2/17 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:29806 Activity:nil
2/16    We are so screwed: http://www.oilcrash.com/eating.htm
2004/2/17 [Recreation/Food] UID:29807 Activity:nil
2/16    Did anyone else read the article about microwave ovens in the
        ecologist magazine Nov 2003?  Can't decide if I believe it or not...
        http://www.cam.net.uk/home/Nimmann/healing/microwaves.htm
        \_ Interesting.  Actually one has to do a comparison study with
           ordinary cooking method.  And it is well known that pan with
           stainless steel (iron, chromium, nickel overdose), aluminum
           (alzhheimer), and teflon surface generate toxin.  So it comes
           down to which one kills the slowliest.
                \_ Aluminum causing Alzheimer's is just a myth...there's
                   no conclusive evidence to demonstrate that.
        \_ All cooking causes chemical changes in food. You'd have to
           see a comparison to people who grill their food for it to
           be meaningful.
2004/2/17-29 [Uncategorized] UID:29808 Activity:nil
2/23    /var/mail is *still* at 92%; please clean your spool.
2004/2/17 [Uncategorized] UID:29809 Activity:high
2/17    poll:
        I partied with nweaver!: .@!#!@#!!
        I did not: ..
        who is nweaver?: .
        I was an RA at nweaver's dorm: .
2004/2/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29810 Activity:nil 72%like:29816
2/17    http://csua.org/u/61g (Yahoo! News):
        "Others call Kerry's protest activities the reflection of a man so
        ambitious for a career in politics that he consciously held on to his
        own medals, now displayed in his Washington office. During the protest
        at the Capitol, Kerry, then 27, threw the medals of two other
        servicemen, along with his own ribbons."
        What a hypocrite.
2004/2/17 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:29811 Activity:high
2/17    stock tip: ICGE to be debt free before bell thursday.
        get in tomorrow.. at .43.. will be at .80 by thursday
        \_ Insider information?
           \_ no.. but 7 insider buys today
              \_ It must be a pump-and-dump stock
        \_ This guy is trying to cash-in his stock options.
        \_ I get spam pumping this stock all the time. Why am I
           seeing this pump and dump crap on the motd?
2004/2/17-18 [Reference/Tax] UID:29812 Activity:nil
2/17    I have used TurboTax on the Web for 6 years now.  I have to say
        2004's version sucks.  It skips many interview questions
        because it thinks it doesn't apply to me, and there is no way
        for me to force it to go through these missing sections.  And
        online helps sucks.  "What is the gross income test?" and "How do
        I claim tax credit for worthless stocks?" yield no search results.
        Word of advice:  Don't use TurboTax on the Web this year.
2004/2/17-18 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/Security] UID:29813 Activity:nil
2/17    Anyone using http://communitycolo.net?  Is it absolutely free? (bandwidth,
        power, storage)  If you donate, how much do you donate?
2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29814 Activity:high
2/17    Hey, as long as the freepers are throwing around Kerry the Hypocrite
        stories, can I get a "Hey Hey!" for Larry Flynt and his Bush Abortion
        story?  He's been right more times than Drudge!
        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/165111p-144622c.html
        \_ Drudge has been wrong exactly once.  Larry Flynt?  If that's the
           best source of anti-Bush news, then you're in for 12 more Bush
           years including the 8 Jeb is going to get.
2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29815 Activity:high
2/17    McCain: Hanoi Hilton Guards Taunted POWs with Kerry's Testimony
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1079861/posts
        \_ That's ok, Kerry is a hero!  Even though he admits to having
           engaged in war crimes.  He was ordered to though so it's ok.
           \_ urlP.  His statements to Congress were based on what he
              heard from others.
              \_ He's done interviews since then.  It's been around the net.
                 I really don't care to find it for you since it'll get
                 deleted in 5 minutes anyway.  If you can't keep up with the
                 news cycles that's your problem.  I'm going to the booth as
                 an informed voter.
              \_ #t
                 \_ It says nothing about Kerry engaging in war crimes.
                    \_ Forgot our scheme, did we?
                       \_ Um.  no.  urlP in the context would suggest that
                          the answer to my question was already provided.
                          The url provided did not answer my point.  Therefore
        \_ Hahahahah! You guys look more and more desperate with each
           passing day. Republicans are so cute when they are losing
           their grip on power.
                          it should have been #f.
                          \_ Um.  no.  Some URL exists which does answer your
                             question, so #t.  Nice try.
                             \_ Then you've rendered yourself totally useless.
                                dumbass.
                                \_ Heh, ask a stupid question....
                             \_ You can find URLs that say pretty much anything.
                                But you are probably confusing John Kerry with
                                Bob Kerrey.
           \_ YEAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
        \_ What a traitor, protesting a war. Only a communist would betray
           noble patriots like McCain! Even though McCain seems to like him
           now. I guess he *was* brainwashed as a POW after all.
        \_ Republicans are so cute when they are desperate.
2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29816 Activity:high 72%like:29810
2/17    http://csua.org/u/61g (Yahoo! News):
        "Others call ____'s protest activities the reflection of a ___ so
        ambitious for a career in politics that he consciously held on to his
        own ______, now displayed in his ______ office. During the protest
        at the ______, _______, then ___ , threw the ____ of two other
        _____ , along with his own _________."
        What a hypocrite.
        \_ Uh... it's not a smear if it's true.
           \_ Once again, if the Democrats nominated Jesus, there would be
              reports in the right wing media that he was actually Satan.
              \_ He'd never win.  He's Jewish.
              \_ Please identify the members of the right wing media.
        \_ If you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Kerry raped goats
           in public just after ritually sacraficing them, I'll still vote for
           him and give money to his campaign.  I really don't like some of
           the democrats, but with Bush in office it just doesn't matter.
           \_ And this is exactly what is wrong with democracy in this country.
              Instead of voting for the better man you go out of your way to
              nominate the lesser evil.  That will never improve the country.
        \_ http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp
        \_ Why not make up an intern story while you are at it? Oh, that's
           right, you already did! You just are looking more and more
           desperate and pathetic. Poor Neocons, you will go down like Nixon.
           \_ There aren't any so-called 'neocons' on the motd.  There's
              probably only 20-30 in the entire country.
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:17 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>