Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:26 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12408 Activity:nil
02/25   Howard Stern pulled from all Clear Channel stations:
        Interesting timing, considering that he's been "indecent" for ages
        but just recently had started critizing Bush, which is a well documented
        no-no in ClearChannel land.
2004/2/26 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:12409 Activity:nil
02/25   After living in Berkeley for 6 years, today, for the first time,
        someone told me that he got a BPD jaywalking ticket in Berkeley (on
        Center, near BART, nothing particularly unsafe past the norm --- no
        cars coming or anything; just lots of HS kids around, since it was
        right after school). Has BPD just started ticketing for jaywalking?
        Have they been at it all along? What the hell, doesn't BPD have more
        worthwhile things to spend time on?
        \_ this is one issue where the nypd got it right.  after the mayor
           decided to crack down on jaywalking a reporter jaywalked in front
           of a cop and literally asked for a ticket, and they refused.
           the cops decided en masse that giving jaywalking tickets in
           a city like new york is total bullshit and refused to do it
           as a matter of policy.
           \_ Yeah it is better to slow traffic, get pedestrians killed, piss
              off drivers and make it 'normal' for the numerous crazy and
              the alzheimers inflicted old to wander into traffic.  If you'd
              ever been there to see someone get his, to see their body fly
              20 feet like a rag doll and blood pool on the street and flow
              into the sewer you might have a different attitude.  You're not
              an idiot but you are an arrogant know-it-all ignorant git.
              \_ What you're describing is a fine reason to push anti-
                 jaywalking educational material, not a law fining people
                 for doing it in front of cops.  No one wants to see anyone
                 get crushed by a car, but there's a limit to the efficacy of
                 legislating common sense.
        \_ I got one back in 1991--it's nothing new.  Depends on whether
           the cop's got a quota to fill, whether he got up on the wrong side
           of bed, cosmic rays, whatever.  Same as campus cops with bike
           riders--remember that students are easy, profitable targets. -John
        \_ I had one walking from the Power Bar building to check my car in
           parking meter at lunch.  Was a marginal infraction: I had started
           ~ 5m before the intersection (diagonal into the street) to reach
           the cross-walk which displayed the 'walk' signal by the time I
           reached striped lines.  Sargent was on opposing corner.  He had
           a gay lisp and an upside down flag on his lapel (this was
           a month or two after 9/11).  I describe it as 'walking while
           white' - a hate crime in Berkeley.
           \_ Son, how do you use your arm with that huge chip on your shoulder?
              \_ You sound just like the hateful racists you think you're
                 opposed to.  You're no different.  Intolerance hurts us all.
                 \_ Hey dimshit, thanks for censoring.
                    \_ I love how the answer to any good reply is always "I got
                       censored!".  I didn't censor you.  If you think you've
                       got something to say I can more than easily hold my own
                       with you or anyone else on here.  Fear of your sharp
                       wit and clever replies isn't on my top 10 worries list.
                       You're a hateful racist and need to deal with that.
                       \_ It's also worth pointing out that if you have
                          something more than a line long to say on the motd,
                          it's really not hard to save a copy and paste it
                          back in after it gets killed.  It's not like
                          you have to handwrite your motd posts.
        \_ It is an on and off thing.  Generally they are very lax about
           jaywalking, but every now and then they will crack down at
           very specific spots.  I suspect that happens right after an
           accident caused by jaywalking.  Also I've seen cops give people
           a hard time for jaywalking right in front of them, and if that
           person blows them off they tend to get a jaywalking ticket.  Cops
           seem to especially hate it when you slow down traffic by jaywalking.
           \_ Seconded.  I once crossed Durant against the light, stared
              down an oncoming car, and walked up onto the sidewalk,
              nearly into a cop standing there.  He yelled at me but as
              soon as he saw the look in my eyes (I was coming back from
              a far-too-long project meeting @ soda) he let it go.
              \_ So you're saying you struck fear into the heart of a BPD beat
                 cop?  Unlikely.
                 \_ I think he meant pity, not fear.
           \_ In these budget-crunching times, I'm sure they are feeling
              pressured to bring in money with small-time infractions.
        \_ i think they only do it now and then when there are high school kids
           around, because they want to impress upon people that they shouldn't
           be a bad influence.  i was stopped and written up once during the
           lunch hour, but i never actually got the ticket...  -lila
2004/2/26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:12410 Activity:nil
2/24    NM is where they do all the latest/greatest scientific breakthroughs
        relating to physics and what not, and it's also a place where really
        smart scientists live. Here is my question. How the heck do they
        [the gov] keep all these brilliant minds in one of the most boring,
        ugly, and inhospital places in the U.S.?
        \_ there are far more physicists on the east and west coasts in total.
        \_ what are you smoking?  Santa Fe & Taos are nice, and there is lots
           of nice stuff to do around Los Alamos if you're a person who
           appreciates the outdoors...
           \_ There are lots of scientists in Albuquerque, too, Sandia
              National Laboratory is there, as well as some of Air Force
              Research Laboratory.  And Albuquerque is not exactly a peach
              of a city.  Still, it's livable, and it's nice to be able to
              have a job and afford a house.  Many other locations of labs
              such as LLNL and LBL have real problems with housing.
              \_ LLNL is in the middle of nowhere.  You can get housing there.
                 \_ Not according to scientists who've tried.  Sure you can
                    get housing further away, but then you have to deal
                    with all that traffic going into Silicon Valley EVERY
                    FUCKING MORNING.
                    \_ What does SV have to do with LLNL?  Do you have any clue
                       where the lawrence LIVERMORE national lab is located?
                       If your scientist friends are so fucking stupid they're
                       looking for LIVERMORE housing in the SV area then they
                       are far too stupid to work in a lab.  I live near the
                       LIVERMORE lab and I've looked at housing in LIVERMORE
                       and the towns around LIVERMORE and there's plenty of
                       housing in the LIVERMORE area.
                       \_ Livermore is not really cheap anymore, but Tracy
                          sure is.
                          \_ Livermore is a mix of cheaper older housing and
                             newer expensive-but-very-nice-for-what-you-paid
                             housing.  Apartments are always available for the
                             single nuclear scientists out there.  Tracy is
                             nearby, cheap, and the next up-and-coming town in
                             the area.  There are also several other new
                             developments for those with more money all within
                             20 minutes of LLNL.  A single person can get
                             Livermore housing.  A family person can get
                             decent housing within 20 minutes.  A person of
                             moderate means can get anything in the area, a lot
                             it is very nice.  I'm still baffled at the SV
                             comment.  SV is not the center of the universe.
        \_ The govt wants to make sure that there are no hot chicks for
           the scientists to sleep with, so that the details of the next
           generation nuclear devices don't slip out of their mounts in bed.
                \_ for some reason I think this is a more plausible
                   explanation than the first two.
                    \_ You think wrong.  There are hot women here.  -PeterM
                       \_ They're all spies.  The MiB will be visiting you and
                          your NKD 'girlfriend' this evening.
                          \_ Oooh!  Threesome!
                             \_ Sort of.  More like an orgy of pain at their
                                secret love nest in Cuba.
        \_ Probably because aside from the gov, there just aren't that many
           places hiring these kinds of scientists. Working for the gov is
           bound to be more relaxed too.
           \_ More relaxed than what?  I talked to some contractor types
              recently about their working environment.  I've got a "todo"
              list with 20+ items and all of them are "important".  The
              contractor has a "todo" list of maybe 5.  I'm juggling a lot
              of stuff all the time and people are constantly coming to me
              for help.  I do not feel relaxed, I feel harried.  --PeterM
              \_ No one works hard for the government.  That's the point.  If
                 you feel harried try working in industry where even if you
                 and everyone else works their ass off and does a good job you
                 might still lose the contract, your job, or the whole company.
                 I've done government work.  It's totally slack.
                 \- the port of oakland != research lab
                    \_ whats the port of oakland have to do with anything?
                 \_ I told you, I talked to contractors who work in industry.
                    It's as I said, I'm more harried than they are.  It's to
                    the point where I think industry would be MORE relaxed.
                    I make no claims about gov't in general though.  We are
                    on a different system here.  We get paid according to
                    what we produce:  I got a 10% incentive pay increase
                    last year, they make an effort to make pay proportional
                    to production:  anyone who wants more money can get it
                    by working harder and/or better.
                    \_ Contractors don't work anywhere.  Talk to full timers.
                       If you're one of the very few people working hard for
                       the government then you missed the whole point of
                       government work.
                 \_ so do you get a busy sex life also?  or are they also on
                    your to-do list?
                    \_ So-so.
2004/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:12411 Activity:nil
2/24    General question for anti-gov't-program types: Do you think it's ok
        to just abandon those that are unable to properly care for themselves?
        For example: retards, invalids, elderly, children of incompetents,
        incompetents, etc.? How would you propose dealing with them?
        \_ I'm one of the most conservative people on the motd.  I propose that
           society takes care of those who truly can not take care of
           themselves.  Our society moves too fast, is too dispersed and no
           longer fit to deal with charity cases with charity.  However, I do
           not believe "the elderly" belong on your list of those unable to
           care for themselves.  There is nothing about simply being 'elderly'
           that puts a person in the same category as the mentally disabled or
           those truly physically unable to care for themselves.  They fall
           into the welfare-state socialism-is-a-failure i-hate-big-government-
           waste category.  Social security was never intended to be the sole
           support for old people.  It is/was a socialist policy designed to
           supplement an old person's other income.  That "other income" is
           the old person's responsibility.  They had an entire lifetime to get
           their act together.  I don't feel responsible for people being
           wasteful or stupid with their lives.  I would make ilyas pay a tiny
           amount of his income (less than 1%) to support the truly needy but
           wouldn't take a penny from him for "the elderly".
           \_ Well I put them there more as "incompetents". Or people who for
              whatever reason aren't smart enough or are unfortunate enough so
              wind up being economically unviable. We don't have a full-
              unemployment economy like Kucinich wants. So bottom line, do you
              just let them wander around homeless, spreading disease, and die?
              Who decides whether someone "truly can not take care of
              themselves"? That could be faked right? Or self-induced... I've
              been around mentally ill people. Sometimes they could sort of
              function, but not enough to compete. Or they might be stuck with
              the mind of a 10 year old, which is enough to appear coherent but
              not enough to really survive. If nothing else they could put
              themselves in jail. Isn't it perverse? At least with socialism,
              people who have some normal human ambition will strive to achieve
              while the rest are provided some simple support. (I'd also favor
              a more limited immigration policy. And I don't believe in giving
           \_ You are a conservative, but when the rubber hits the road you are
              a pragmatic first, a conservative second.  The problem is, I can
              always make a case that more people need to be included in the
              entitlement you are creating (what about old people who
              immigrated from North Korea, who had no chance to improve their
              lot, etc. etc.)  The real issue here is whether property rights
              trump 'right to not die.'  I believe so (I also believe there is
              no such right as 'right to not die').  Once you are willing to
              redistribute money from specific people to other specific people
              (as opposed to servicing certain kinds of 'global goods') using
              force, it's all a matter of sliding down a gentle slope from your
              position to orthodox socialism. -- ilyas
        \_ I propose to rely on charity and culture of compassion (or if you are
           more cynical, peer pressure of compassion), rather than on forcing
           people to be compassionate.  If confronted with a scenario where I
           have to choose between letting someone die and forcing someone to
           take care of them, I would choose the former.  -- ilyas
        \_ in WW2 Japan, the old people were deemed
           useless because they took away precious resources (rice, time,
           etc) that could otherwised be used for expanding their
           empire. So, they killed many of them for the greater good.
                \_ nippon bansai!!! nippon ichiban!!!!
        \_ There is a difference between a safety net and socialized
           retirement / medical care.  Do you want to inculcate
           government dependency (as if we haven't already)?
           \_ so... if there's a safety net then how do you prevent people
              from treating it the same as socialized blah? once most of these
              people fall in they probably can't get out anyway.
              \_ fuck em.  let em die.
2004/2/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:12412 Activity:high
        But that isn't how Social Security calculates initial benefits,
        at least since 1977. Instead, lifetime earnings are indexed
        by the annual change in average national wages--a procedure
        called wage indexing. Sound like a small technical difference?
        In fact, some authors have pointed out, the entire projected
        Social Security shortfall of 25 trillion dollars can be shown
        to disappear, merely by switching these two techniques.
        \_ it's on yahoo. Go post there if you care.
        \_ So instead of basing SS payouts on income earned, it becomes
           based on the cost of consumer goods.  So under a new system:
           as things get cheaper, your SS payout gets smaller.  Under the
           old system:  as wages rise, so does your payout.
           \_ It doesn't sound like a small technical difference at all.
              Under the old system, SS had to track your success in life.
              Under the new system, SS merely has to track the cost of
              subsisting you.  This is a HUGE difference, morally, considering
              the huge chunk of people's (generally rising) wages that have
              to be contributed to SS.  Of course under this new system SS
              will not be bankrupt -- it just takes your money but only
              provides subsistence in return.  How about we change SS so
              participation is voluntary?  This will fix it instantly. -- ilyas
              \_ [Someone deleted the nifty anti-socialist troll.]
              \_ no, no, no, we can't have voluntary participation.  how else
                 will we reach socialist nirvana if we don't soak the people
                 who work the hardest to support the least capable?
                    [deleted again]
                    [restored because I like seeing socialists cry and whine
                     after they get put in their place on the motd]
                     \_ Except that you didn't restore the part where YOU got
                        put in your place.  Selective restoration is even more
                        dumb than selective deletion.  Goodbye.
                        \_ You're a big baby.  I restored the parts I have from
                           my own files.  If you added something else after
                           that which I never saw, tough shit, babycakes.
                           \_ Uh, huh.  Whatever, big boy - I'm not the one
                              throwing around the word "socialist" like a big
                 \_ Shaddup troll.
                    \_ Die, socialist scum!  The opposing view isn't a troll,
                       it is the opposing view.  If you had something worth
                       saying on the topic, you'd say it.  You don't so stop
                       wasting bits.
                       \_ Die socialist scum?  Who's wasting bits?
                          \_ Just playing along with the theme.  The rest of
                             what I've said in both comments above remains
                             true, accurate, and unrefuted.  Get a sense of
                    [restored because I like seeing socialists cry and whine
                        dumb than selective deletion.  Goodbye.
                     after they get put in their place on the motd]
                 \_ Sigh. What's wrong with wanting a society where every
                    man, woman, and child is guaranteed nutrition, shelter,
                    healthcare, safety, and a decent education? Social
                    Security is just one small step in the right direction.
                    Don't trash the idea just because the current system needs
                        \_ The problem is you want to coerce someone else to
                           take your view at gunpoint - that is what is
                           'wrong'.  Also recognize that those individuals
                           using the same code words as you - Hitler, Stalin,
                           Lenin, and Mao... - were directly reponsible for
                           10's of millions of deaths in the 21th century.
                           Shouldn't that be of some concern?
                    \_ There is nothing wrong with wanting something like this,
                       but you have to accept the consequences of the means you
                       would use to achieve such a society.  The problem is,
                       I can keep expanding the scope of entitlements that
                       would be good (what if I want to guarantee decent
                       nutrition for all pets, or some minimum level of
                       prosperity for every human being, or guaranteed
                       college education, etc. etc. etc.)  Eventually you end
                       up extinguishing property rights altogether, but at
                       least everyone has some minimal level of something or
                       other.  Is the price worth it?  Everyone becomes a
                       pauper.  It's also worth it to think about _why_ SS
                       needs overhauling.  Is it an accident, or a pattern?
                        -- ilyas
                       \_ Any system, whether  socialism or libertarianism
                          makes no sense when taken to ridiculous extremes.
                          You just have to hope that the people in control
                          (hopefully voters) have enough sense to choose a
                          happy middle ground.
                          \_ Well, I am an optimist.  I d like to believe that
                             the best society isn't just some arbitrary
                             middle ground between competing ideologies,
                             twitching in some state of unsteady equilibrium,
                             subject to vagaries of the election season and
                             voter mood swings. -- ilyas
                             \_ Ilya, I think you're an "idealist" rather than
                                an optimist.  The problem with idealists is
                                that reality never conforms to an ideal.
                                \_ When I lost my idealism I stopped being a
                                   libertarian.  -- !ilyas
                             \_ You are not an optimist, you are a kook at
                                best, an extremist at worst.
                                \_ But he's our kook and we love him.
                                \_ But he's our kook and we love him.
                                \_ They are not exclusive. You can be both.
                                \_ They are not exclusive. You can be both.
                                \_ Lenin would have called you a 'useful
                          New Zeeland, The Netherlands all started in this
                       \_ You keep claiming this ilyas, but can you give
                          an example of any society anywhere in history
                          that went down this slippery slope? Sweden,
                          New Zealand, The Netherlands all started in this
                          direction and have since then cut taxes and social
                          benefits as they see the longterm cost to their
                          economies. -ausman
                          \_ This is a weak argument for two reasons.
                             (1) We might not have given enough time to Western
                                 socialism.  Eastern socialism is older, and
                             (2) Even if you are right, and it will never
                                 happen (or at least not any time soon), would
                                 you really want to live in a society where the
                                 only thing stopping complete soviet style
                                 income redistribution is expedience and voter
                                 inertia?  How do you know these forces, which
                                 the pragmatic relies on so much, will
                                 not give out one day? -- ilyas
                          \_ Where did Sweden makes cuts?  New Zealand?
                             \_ Maybe he meant Germany. I think the point is,
                                these countries haven't gone headlong into full
                                socialism or communism and don't appear likely
                                to ever do so. It's true that their taxes
                                harm their economic competitiveness. But life
                                is about more than cold efficiency.
                                \_ Harm the economy enough and there won't be
                                   enough wealth available to support the
                                   system.  These sorts of supplemental
                                   assistance programs are draining off the
                                   economy.  I don't believe in cold hard
                                   efficiency but I don't want to see the
                                   whole system suffocate in it's own feces.
                             \_ Okay maybe Sweden is a bad example. I seem
                                to remember The Economist claiming they
                                had cut their social benefits, but if you
                                look at government spending as a percentage
                                of GDP, it has gone down in New Zealand,
                          economies. -ausman
                                   efficiency but I don't want to see the
                                   whole system suffocate in it's own feces.
                                   citizenry, and you don't have to privatize
                                   all basic services in order to support
                                   a prosperous economy.
                                Germany and The Netherlands over the last
                                \_ The real point is this: Sweden, New Zealand,
                                   and Switzerland are positive examples of
                                   places that have great social benefits
                                   _and_ still support businesses.  You don't
                                   have to abolish all property ownership in
                 of supplemental income system so poor old people who are no
                 longer able to work don't have to eat catfood.  That's not
                                   order to provide the basics for your
                                   citizenry, and you don't have to privatize
                                   all basic services in order to support
                                   a prosperous economy.
                                        \_ For a generation such a system
                    \_ The fact that you think this is actually important is
                       at the heart of your ridiculousness.
                                           can exist, especially when national
                                           defense is paid for by Uncle Sam;
                                           these are already showing signs
                                           of decay and have < 20 years before
           \_ I guess it depends on whether you see SS as a retirement system
              or a safety net. It was never really designed to be the former,
              but politicians have found it politically expedient to keep
              expanding benefits and including more and more people in it.
              The only way it works fiscally is as the latter. This is what
              it originally was intended as. Eliminate the survivor and
              disability benefits and the system would work fine.
              \_ You're trying to tell the motd about the need for safety nets?
                 Good luck, dude.
              \_ Makes a lot of sense to me, SS as a safety net, not a
                 retirement system, and I'm a libur'l.
              \_ I'm a conservative.  I'm in favor of safety nets and some sort
                 of supplemental income system so poor old people who are no
                 longer able to work don't have to eat cat food.  That's not
                 what the current system is about today.  It's a publicly
                 known fact for many many years that the system *can't* last
                 as it exists now.  I've never expected to get a single penny
                 from the system.  I see it as part of my federal income taxes
                 and nothing more.  All out-go, no come-back.
                 \_ Can you summarize your (conservative) position in some
                    small set of principles?  -- ilyas
                    \_ The fact that you think this is actually important is
                       at the heart of your ridiculousness.
                       \_ Yes, I think principles are important.  Sorry, I ll
                          try to be less kooky next time. -- ilyas
                    \_ No.  Life is more complicated than that.  That's one of
                       things that is wrong with the libertarians and the
                       various smaller one-item political parties. --conser.
                     \_ I can - I believe it is incumbent on every individual
                 as it exists now.  I've never expected to get a single penny
                 \_ Can you summarize your (conservative) position in some
                    small set of principles?  -- ilyas
                 \_ catfood is a good deal more expensive price/nutrition-wise
                 from the system.  I see it as part of my federal income taxes
                 and nothing more.  All out-go, no come-back.
                 \_ Can you summarize your (conservative) position in some
                    small set of principles?  -- ilyas
                    \_ No.  Life is more complicated than that.  That's one of
                       things that is wrong with the libertarians and the
                       various smaller one-item political parties. --conser.
                        (except for the retarded or disabled) to take
                        responsible actions throughout their lives and live
                        with the consequences.  This is called 'freedom';
                        the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.  I
                        believe in equal opportunity, not economic equality
                        by government fiat.  The rule of law; a government of
                        laws and not men.
                        \_ Providing for a minimum economic floor is not the
                           same as economic equality. Why should those retards
                           get a free lunch when even millions of below-
                           average people "fail"? The fact is that even with
                           best efforts people can fail. And others can do well
                           enough to get by most of the time... but how many
                           can become independently wealthy? Your freedom is
                           just greed. "i'm fine, fuck the losers".
                                \_ No, I am a huge proponent of charity, faith
                                   based or otherwise.  You instead, want to
                                   coerce me at gunpoint to pay to assuage
                                   your conscience.  You are thief backed up
                                   by government fiat; that's tyranny.
                                   You are elitist statist and what Lenin would
                                   call a 'useful idiot'.  American used to be
                                   place of rugged indvidualists who would balk
                                   at the idea of a gov't handout; now we have
                                   weak paintywaists who believe they have an
                                   enshrined constitutional right
                                   to cradle to grave care from
                                   an authority figure.
                                   Here's a great exegisis:
                                   \_ Tell us, little chile, of the old
                                      Americans.  Which John Wayne movies
                                      did you learn of them from?
                 \_ cat food is a good deal more expensive price/nutrition-wise
                    than human food.  Go go marketing...
                    \_ I don't think that was always the case.  Anyway, dry
                       dogfood is quite cheap, if you buy the right brand.
2004/2/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:12413 Activity:nil
02/26   Microsoft Japan office Raided By Japan's Fair Trade Commission  (bloomberg)
        \_ It's on slashdot.  Go post there if you care.
           \_ Not everyone on the motd reads /., and the story is still
              deeply satisfying.
              \_ Now that they know the story is there they can go there.
2004/2/26-27 [Recreation/Humor] UID:12414 Activity:nil 54%like:12520
02/26   Some of you have probably seen this before, but I think it's
        pretty funny.  -John
        \_ Very nice.  Well worth the repost.
        \_ It's on  Go post there if you care.
2004/2/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12415 Activity:nil
02/26   Bush To Cut Deficit From Federal Budget:
        \_ Thank God!  Now we can afford a permanent tax increase!
2004/2/26-27 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12416 Activity:nil
02/26   Brookings Institution on whether Bush's tax cuts should be permanent:
        \_ There you go: Dog bites man, no story; man bites dog, front page.
           \_ Huh?
        \_ It's on Go post there if you care.
2004/2/26 [Finance/Investment] UID:12417 Activity:high
02/26   Just curious:  How many people on the motd day trade?  If so, what
        tools, brokers, etc do you use?
        \_ ameritrade, level2 quotes and streamer
        \_ I get all my tips from the shoeshine boy on the corner.  We're
           beating the market by 15%!!
           \_ Sounds like you should run for Senate instead.
              \_ The shoeshine boy is supporting my run.  We have a true
                 gressroots moving starting for the next election cycle.  I'm
                 going to run against Feinstein when her current term ends.
                 \_ hey, it's Not Even Remotely Funny Anonymous MOTD Comic!
        \_ If my average stock hold time is about 3 months, am I an
           investor or a trader?
           \_ That's speculation, unless you're just really indecicive.
              \_ it's more like I find a stock that's cheap and is ready
                 to wait a year for it to go up, but it goes up fast
                 really soon, and becomes fully valued, so I dump it.
                 \_ Bingo.  You just described speculation.
                    \_ really?  cool, now I know I am a speculator.
                       but even for an investor, why would you want
                       to hold when a stock that was cheap has
                       become expensive, and is likely to fall back
                       or stay flat for a long while?  to save some
                       \_ The idea is that it will still do well over the long
                          term and/or pays a good dividend.  Long-term
                          investors don't buy stocks withoug good long-term
                          prospects.  It sounds like you're looking for good
                          short-term growth without looking at long-term.
              \_ Depends, I would say. If you just run tight stops, then
                 you aren't really a "speculator" you are just an investor
                 with a low risk tolerance. If your average holding time
                 is 3 months, but half the stocks in your portfolio have
                 have been there 2+ yrs, I would call that an investor.
                 But I guess you might not. Certainly not a "day trader,"
                 I hope we can both agree.
                 with a low risk tolerance. You just might churn through
                 a lot of stocks until you find the ones with a low enough
                 beta for you.
2004/2/26-27 [ERROR, uid:12418, category id '18005#9.305' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12418 Activity:high
2/26    Kerry's Soviet Rhetoric
        The Vietnam-era antiwar movement got its spin from the Kremlin.
        by KGB Defector
        \_ a response:
                \_ And I'm sure Venona was part of the vast right-wing
                   conspiracy as well eh?
                   Funneling of Soviet money, particularly oil revenues,
                   to Western insurgency groups is all very well
                   documented.  Notice the author of your link does not
                   question the veracity of the NRO text - he simply
                   demagogues.  Is it really necessary to recite for
                   you Soviet sponsored insurgencies during the Cold
        \_ Bush knew.
        \_ It's on Free Republic.  Go post there if you care.
2004/2/26-27 [Uncategorized] UID:12419 Activity:nil
2/26    How come the big flamefest about Gibson's Jesus movie was all *before*
        it came out?  Does anyone who's actually seen it have any comments?
2004/2/26-27 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:12420 Activity:moderate
2/26    Someone explain this to me please.  Why US Government give Oracle
        a hard time under the anti-competitive ground, yet gave Microsoft
        a free hand to do whatever he wants?
        \_ Why prc no free market noodles make Ayn Rand?
        \_ Bill gave W more campaign contributions than Larry did
2004/2/26-27 [Reference/BayArea, Academia/Berkeley] UID:12421 Activity:nil
2/26    If you have comcast in berkeley, would you please do some fast
        pinging and find out at what rate do you start to get packet loss
        (of ICMP ping packets). I moved out of state and can only send 2
        pings a second.  I want to tell the comcast folks here what the
        ping rate in berkeley is. If I remember correctly, it was much
        higher. Thanks.
        \- 2ping/sec ... you arent hitting the sun icmp throttle are you?
           why do you need to send pings faster? --psb
            \_ To rapidly gather network link quality statistics.
                I can _send_ pings faster than 2/sec, but they get
                dropped by the comcast equipment upstream.
                What's the "sun icmp throttle"?
                    \- you have exceeded your anonymous privilages --psb :-)
                        \_ Why do you care?
                           \_ Falls under the "self righteous prick" policy.
                \_ comcast will not let you "rapidly gather network link
                   quality statistics."  That's their job, and there's no
                   reason they'd want to let you hose their network.
                   \_ In berkeley I could ping > 2/sec.
                      In portland I can not. Same comcast company.
                      A network cannot be hosed by 50 pings /second.
                      I'm not doing anything malicious. When the network
                      has problems, I like to run mtr.  Would somebody in
                      berkeley please run a short test to determine what
                      the icmp limit is there?
                      \_ What if all 200 people on your local net sent 50/s?
                         \- the throttle is probably an anti-DoS measure in
                            part. i dont think this is too unreasonable.
                            blocking all icmp echo/echo_reply would suck.
                            again, you can use tcp/udb echo ... it might be
                            intersting to see if you can basically write ping
                            with getnetmask --psb
                         \_ Would you be concerned if they raised it to 20/s?
                         \_ Would you have a problem if they raised it to 20/s?
                         \_ Hey, they didn't have this low a limit in
                            Berkeley, and the sky did not fall. Could you just
                            find out what the Berkeley limit is. That's all.
2004/2/26-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12422 Activity:low
2/26    No, really... /var/mail is getting full:
-rw-rw----  1 njh            mail    24023725 Feb 26 17:18 njh
-rw-rw----  1 georgy         mail    22633905 Feb 26 17:11 georgy
-rw-------  1 vlin           mail    20938590 Feb 26 15:19 vlin
-rw-------  1 uctt           mail    20938475 Feb 26 14:28 uctt
-rw-------  1 leec           mail    20921676 Feb 26 16:17 leec
-rw-------  1 danberry       mail    20881048 Feb 26 16:18 danberry
-rw-------  1 ericwo         mail    20872793 Feb 26 10:55 ericwo
-rw-rw----  1 isabelle       mail    20446008 Feb 26 11:41 isabelle
-rw-r--r--  1 nivra          csua    19251192 Feb 23 12:36 nivra
-rw-rw----  1 marc           mail    18391040 Feb 26 17:20 marc
        Why isn't there a quota on this partition?
        \_ I ran for governor and sold net.panties so I don't have to
           adhere to your mortal limits!
        \_ two of those accounts are sorry'd.  can they still retrieve email?
           how are they supposed to fix their mess?
           \_ come crawling back to the politburo and grovel a bit but then
              they'd get sorried again for being over quota on their mailboxes.
              \_ how are they even to know they're supposed to come grovelling
                \_ By reading the motd?  It's available via finger.
        \_ I don't know about you, but my /var/mail quota is 15 MB, hard 20 MB.
           \_ I guess if you're cool and know the right people and maybe run
              for CA governor as a joke candidate you get more space.
                \_ I think selling ladies underwear with your name on it
                   should count towards the secret-csua-life-point-that-gives-
                   you-more-mail-quota.  No comment on the other evil-doers,
                   though.  -John
2004/2/26-27 [Consumer/PDA] UID:12423 Activity:nil
2/26    Okay, someone explain to me why, apart from obsessive geekiness,
        Rialto Pictures is releasing the original Godzilla?
        \_ They like money.
        \_ Because it's a classic film.  Duh.  Only the original King Kong is
           better.  You liked Gozilla 2000 with the stupid giant iguana?
           \_ That movie was a two shot handicap atleast, more like four.
              Still, it was lovely seeing Harry Shearer as soon-to-be-iguana-
              food. He does annoying pricks with such pizzazz. -- ulysses
              \_ And he looks stunning in an evening dress!
           \_ Best lines from "Godzilla, Mothra & King Ghidorah":
               Pilot 1: I hear Godzilla was sighted in New York.
               Pilot 2: The Americans say it was Godzilla, but we don't think
                \_ Everyone knows the real Gozilla only destroys Japanese
2004/2/26-27 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/Database] UID:12424 Activity:nil
2/26    Suppose I have a database of car dealers and the cars they have in
        stock.  I want to query this database for N cars that I'm
        interested in, something like
        SELECT dealerId, carId FROM cars WHERE (carId=1 OR carId=2 OR carId=42)
        The problem is, I need to sort the result such that a dealer who
        has all N cars I'm interested in is ranked higher than a dealer that
        has only 1 or 2 such cars.  Can this be done with some sort of
        aggregate function?  Something like
        SELECT dealerId, count(dealerId) as numCars, list(carId)
          FROM cars WHERE (carId=1 OR carId=2 OR carId=42)
          GROUP BY dealerId
          ORDER BY rank
        where the output would be
        dealer  | numCars       | list(carId)
        Fred      3               1,2,42
        Bob       2               1,2
        Tom       2               1,42
        Jerry     1               2
        Thanks in advance.
        \_ Please tell me this is for work.
           \_ I would, but then I wouldn't get the input from the smart types
              who do it because it's challenging. -op
              \_ Your question was better when it was jive'd.
                 \_ Yo! Yo!  Shiznitz!  Wez be needin' ah jive update!
2004/2/26-27 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:12425 Activity:kinda low
2/26    Panzer/Tiger > T34 > Sherman
        \_ Thank you for that well-reasoned piece of historical analysis.
           \_ I'm encouraging discussion.
              \_ Each individual tank was better, but because the Sherman
                 was mass produced in a way the Panzer was not, it could
                 be produced in 5X quantities. Was the Panzer better than
                 5 Sherman's?
                 \_ you are right. one on one, Panzer > Shermans.
                    But Shermans were mass-produced and tactics had to change.
                    Which tank would you rather be in?
                    \_ None.  They were all death traps.
                    \_ I would prefer to be in a Panther. Good gun,
                       good mobility, reliable. I hear some are still
                       in use today in Africa.
                    \_ The Germans called Shermans "Tommycookers" because they
                       easily caught fire.  There are documented cases of a
                       Tiger decimating multiple Shermans, without retaliation
                       (Sherman shells just bounced off).  America placed
                       production over R&D as a priority for their tank
                       program in the 30s.  This unfortunate oversight cost
                       many American lives early in 1944.  It took almost a
                       year for American tanks to become useful (they were
                       never very good in WWII).  Americans won their battles
                       with excellent supplies, overwhelming air superiority,
                       and general Patton, not with tanks.  -- ilyas
                       never very good in WWII). -- ilyas
        \_ What was that gianormous German tank that they only built a few of?
           \_ Maus.  It was far bigger than the King Tiger, but never saw
              service.  Even King Tigers (or even normal Tigers) were often
              used as stationary artillery by the retreating German forces.
              Incidentally, while the Panther was a better tank than the T-34,
              it had two major problems.  One was the much greater complexity,
              which made it difficult to repair damaged Panthers (or keep
              undamaged ones operational).  Another was
              the relatively narrow tracks (compared to the wide T-34 tracks)
              which made mobility on poor roads in Russia much much worse.
              The Panther was also very expensive and lavishly made.  By the
              time it entered service, Germany's priority should have been
              stamping out as many tanks as possible, as cheaply and quickly
              as possible, like the Russians were doing.
              T-34 was the better tank, per unit of resource.
                -- ilyas
           \_ King Tiger? They made 485 of them. They were basically
              unstoppable until they ran out of fuel.
              \_ Why?  Longer range?
                 \_ They had really thick sloped armor and a gun that
                    could take out any other tank at a range of 2km.
                    But even point blank, the Sherman could just not
                    penetrate the King Tiger armor. The best the
                    allies could hope to do was detrack it.
           \_ Maybe you mean The Maus, that they only made two prototypes
              of. They were 180 Tons and never saw combat.
           \_ there was the Tiger I and the Tiger II (King Tiger)
2004/2/26-27 [Finance/CC, Recreation/Shopping] UID:12426 Activity:nil
2/26    I couldn't find this in the motd archive. Google search for credit card
        processing / ecommerce hosting companies is worthless. What's a good
        place to go with? Low volume, Ease of use preferred over price... I
        know that I can go with Verisign, but I'm guessing that they suck
        (I know that they suck as a registrar). My domains are with godaddy,
        which does ecommerce, but says you need a shopping cart... is there
        a good text FAQ that explains the whole process? I'm only selling one
        (maybe two) items, so I don't need a shopping cart. I don't want to
        deal with Paypal.
        \_ Verisign Internet Merchant Account + PayFlow Link.
2004/2/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:12427 Activity:low
2/26    Living man a fugitive suspect in sucessful suicide bombing attack.
        Huh what?
        "In a report earlier this month, Agence France-Presse said a Taliban
        source had identified Abdullah Khadr as the attacker who on Jan. 27
        jumped on Murphy's jeep and blew himself up. He is the 22-year-old son
        of Ahmed Said Khadr."
        \_ It's on Go post there if you care.
           \_ Are you deranged?
2004/2/26-27 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:12428 Activity:nil
2/26    I just got a new laptop but it has no serial port. Are there USB or
        Parallel to serial adapters (I need a serial port for connecting
        to random hardware).
        \_ I would think Belkin would have something like that.
        \_ there are various USB/serial adapters and port replicators from
           a variety of manufacturers (e.g.
  ... keep
           in mind that the parallel and serial ports are intended to be used
           for common peripherals such as printers and mice.  I'm not certain
           that they'd work for, say, attaching a serial debugger.
           \_ Thanks. I've seen websites selling noname brand versions of this
              for $20 but I think I'll just get the brand name.
        \_ Specifically, I'd like to be able to plug into Cisco boxes. The
           other random hardware is a "would be nice".
2004/2/26 [Uncategorized] UID:29832 Activity:high
2/26    I want to view images via putty.  Any way to do this?
        \_ it's on putty.  go there if you care.
2004/2/26 [Finance/Investment] UID:29833 Activity:very high
2/26    motd stock tip of the day: AUO
        taiwan LCD panel maker
        \_ Great. The motd is now the new vehicle for anonymous pump-and-
        \_ I am still holding onto my EMRG and hoping that it goes back
        \_ Its on the NASDAQ.  Go post there if you care.
           to where I bought it. I was just kidding about mortgaging the
           house though. I only bought 100 shares.
2004/2/26 [Uncategorized] UID:29834 Activity:high
2/26    I'm on your mom.  Does she care?
        \_ She's on the rag.  Do you care?
         \_ one word... menopause
2021/12/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:26 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>