Computer SW OS Linux - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Computer:SW:OS:Linux:
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2021/06/14 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2004/7/29-30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:32575 Activity:nil
7/29    Linux picnic 8/7.
        \_ Linux panic!?!
        \_ Penguin sandwiches!  -John
2004/7/15-16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:32301 Activity:moderate
7/15    I have a FireWire IDE enclosure. If I have static on my body and touch
        the enclosure while it is running (zap), it resets the drive
        (click), and causes linux kernel panic. I assume that data would be
        lost in such a sitation.  Is this normal behavior for an
        \_ Is your power supply connected to a true ground?  Or one of those
           screw-on plugs for older outlets without a ground?
           \_ The computer is plugged into a three prong power strip, which
              is plugged into a 3 prong recepticle in the wall.  I assumed
              that the wall plug was grounded (I will test it).  The power
              supply for the firewire enclosure only has 2 prongs.  I think
              that the enclosure is grounded via the FW cable.  Also, the
              aluminium housing of the enclosure is in direct contact with
              the metal on top of the disk drive.  Does static arc between
              a charged human and a grounded metal? This is the enclosure:
              \_ Static will arc between any 2 objects that have a different
                 charge level.  Since 'grounded' is defined as having no charge
                 you can spark on grounded metal if you build up any charge.
                 Ideally, your enclosure should be grounded.  If it is not
                 grounded and you spark on it, the current will flow into any
                 parts connected to the case, including delicate electronics.
                 \_ It's worth pointing out that the human body can have
                    multiple kilovolts on it pretty easily, particularly
                    in dry weather.
2004/7/13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:32261 Activity:nil
7/12    What preprocessor are defined for Linux that identifies linux
        platform? __LINUX__? Thanks.
        \_ __linux__
2004/6/21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:30935 Activity:high
6/21    Any recommendations for a file system I can access natively under
        Windows 2003 and Linux (Debian) with ownership, permissions, etc?
        Does this even exist?
        \_ FAT32 is probably the best you're gonna get.
        \_ I've seen NTFS modules for unix but they're usually listed as
           read-only.  I've never tried them out.  You want this on the same
           computer for dual-boot, right?
           \_ The NTFS drivers have occasional problems just reading directories
              correctly (ie, some files aren't visible from Unix).
           \_ The NTFS drivers have occasional problems just reading
              directories correctly (ie, some files aren't visible from Unix).
           \_ op's asking for one w/ ownership & perms, guys
              \_ they don't really exist, but we're being nice about it.
              \_ NTFS has ownerships and perms.  What's the problem if it can
                 be made to work under linux?
        \_ Unless you're specifically asking about it for dual-boot, you may
           have better luck just setting up a samba server with ACL support.
        \_ I once read about an ext2 FS driver for windows, but I can't say
           anything about reliability/quality.
           \_ Ext2fsd by Matt Wu or something, google it. RW access,
              semi-stable, use at your own risk...
              \_ Thanks, will try this.  (Yes, it's for dual boot.)  -John
                 \_ You're welcome - williamc
2021/06/14 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:30826 Activity:very high
6/16    I just got a new dual proc xeon server that will be replacing an
        old E250 running Solaris. Gentoo is looking pretty good to me, but
        I don't have too much experience w/ Linux/BSD. Instead of igniting
        a flamewar, does anyone have a good URL that might line up the various
        x86 *nixes so that I might figure out which is best for me? I've used
        Debian in the past, but that was a while back.
        \_ What are you going to use it for?  It may not matter which one.  It
           is likely that whatever you or the eventually sysadmin or end users
           are most comfortable with is the 'best' OS for your purposes.
        \_ In the same vein, are there any specific disadvantages to ReiserFS
           over ext3?
2004/6/13-14 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:30779 Activity:very high
6/13    How does one tell a linux box to use the company mail server, thus
        keeping me from having to run a mail server on my boy.  I think it is
        a relay tag somewhere, but I don't remember.  I used to know.
        \_ I thought you could set up your mail program to just use the
           server of your choice?  (It's been a long time since I've done
           \_ You can with many, but not all, mail programs. For the general
              case, look into something like esmtp or ssmtp.
        \_ Linux is only a kernel.  There is no such thing as "telling a linux
           box to use the company mail server".  To answer your question, we
           would need to know your mail client which isn't a part of 'linux'.
           \_ there's a set of 5 patches to do this in the kernel, which need
              to be applied by hand, with some hand editing because they
              conflict in few places.
              \_ uh yeah that seems worth it.
           \_ look if you know the answer for ANY linux box. then i am
              interested.  The vast majority of people here are using either
              sendmail or postfix to "sendmail" in linux and the solution for
              either would have been perfect, the solution for qmail would be
              interesting.  I almost added "Sendmail or postfix" to the post
              but, as i said, i'd be interested in qmail, or even EXIM or...
              and i thought that by specifying the OS, people would realize
              i was asking about system level and not about individual mail
              client level.  Clearly I was mistaken. -top
              \_ ok ya big baby... it goes like this: the easiest thing to do
                 so all your mail clients just work is to setup any mail server
                 to only collect mail locally and set the smart host to be your
                 ISP's mail server.  For sendmail you want the DS line in the
         In procmail, I forget the exact method but the
        and are very well self documenting.  I think
                 it's in  And qmail has Yet Another Stupid Dinky
                 Pointless Single Line Config File for this which has some
                 stupid djb syntax you don't want to learn.  I've done it in
                 qmail but it was far to painful to bother for anything I'm
                 qmail but it was far too painful to bother for anything I'm
                 not getting paid to do.
                 \_SMART host, that's what i couldn't remember.  tnx, and
                   gaga googoo.
2004/6/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:30777 Activity:insanely high
6/12    Is it possiable to get app_get for Linux distributions other than
        Debian?  Can I get an RPM for fedora, or mandrake?
        \_ does urpmi count?
           \_ Pretty cool.  Thanks.
        \_ Take a look at: The dependency
           checker in apt4rpm is really cool.
        \_ Yes. Go to and grab their apt package for your
           distribution. In addition to the apt program, it comes with a sources
           files that points to an apt-ifed mirror of RH/Fedora/etc distribution
           and updates.
           distribution. In addition to the apt program, it comes with a
            source files that points to an apt-ifed mirror of RH/Fedora/etc
            distribution and updates.
        \_ Thank god for the ports collection in *bsd.
        \_ I think you mean "apt-get"
2004/5/28-29 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30467 Activity:high
5/27    In what ways are FreeBSD superior to a good Linux distro?
        \_ Why do you hate Windows?
           \_ Why do you hate Linus?
        \_ *BSD has a better IP stack.
           \_ In what way?
           \_ Aren't they the same now?
              \_ Yeah, because Linux copied Unix! --SCO
              \_ They are? When did Linux change it?
        \_ there's an actual CVS tree for the kernel?
          \_ setting up software raid in freebsd still sucks
             \_ software raid sucks everywhere.  Real men use hardware.
                After the third time your linux kernel drops a drive on a
                whim, you'll learn.
             \_ there are nice tools for setting up software raid in
                linux.  freebsd uses this thing called "vi"
                actually when your machine fails, there's this thing
                called "ed"
                \_ Solaris LVM and Irix's lvm are way better.
                   \_ we're not comparing against Solaris and Irix.  Why does
                      this keep getting deleted?
                \_ Does anyone use Veritas Volume Manager for Linux?
                   I bet it works fine, since all the other Veritas products
                   I have used rocked. But it is not free.
             \_ To be fair, you can't compare vinum (freebsd sw raid) to
                linux sw raid; the featuresets aren't the same.  Vinum is
                more equivalent to EVMS (
        \_ *BSD has a highly organized and structured "way" of doing things.
           On every BSD box you always know where to look for config files,
           how to install/remove new software.  Things don't radically change
           or require reading through obscure and often outdated HOW-TO pseudo
           documents.  Linux is good if you're not the admin or you *need*
           the cutting edge.  If you just want your machines to work and never
           want to touch them again, get *BSD.  --linux admin by day
           \_ it seems like you're answering the wrong question. The question
              wasn't about *BSD vs * Linux. It was FreeBSD vs a [one] good
              Linux distro. And, BTW I use RH/Fedora/RHEL and I consider them
              fairly well structured too. I know where the config files or
              say init scripts are support to be. And I prefer their packages
              (when they exist) to the FreeBSD ports.
              \_ Really?  You prefer RH?  To *anything*?  RH is the garbage of
                 the *nix world.  I'd take just about any other *nix, free or
                 commercial over RH for almost anything.  Is that just because
                 you know RH best so you're just used to the pain like Windows
                 admins and users?
                 \_ I don't prefer RH for absolutely everything but it works
                    more than well enough for my type of environment (computer
                    labs, computing clusters, servers that support all that,
                    etc) and I definitely prefer it for this type of job than
                    say FreeBSD or Solaris. I have used Debian and I have
                    my reasons for not choosing either Debian or FreeBSD.
                    Besides, from my personal observations, the FreeBSD
                    afficionados who tend to dismiss RedHat as a piece of
                    crap usually don't know how to run a RedHat system
                    or say even use rpm properly and just keep repeating
                    the anti-Linux FUD they see on *BSD mailing lists or
           \_ The organization goes beyond that, too.  The ports tree/packages
              are awesome.  Maintaining a BSD box is infinitely easier than,
              say, redhat.
              \_ Ports suck.  I like the idea in principle, but the
                 implementation of ports is by far the worst feature of
                 FreeBSD, in my opinion. -- ilyas
              \_ I disagree.  try upgrading openssl on FreeBSD.  you know,
                 getting /usr/lib/libssl.* upgraded, not just plopping down
                 new files in /usr/local/*.  Much easier on RedHate (as much
                 as I bitch and moan about it).  Just grab an RPM or even
                 an SRPM if you want to tweak things, and it goes in.  --Jon
                 \_ cd /usr/src/contrib/openssl
                    less INSTALL
                 \_ This is why the port is there.  So you don't have to
                    buildworld on every openssl bug report.
                    Not to mention when you get the new rpm (if there is
                    one), it always seems to break some other package because
                    some internal in openssl was changed.
              \_ redhat isn't great of a linux example, IMO.  pick a
                 distribution that isn't broken (gentoo, debian)
           \_ Every BSD box?  Really?  You think NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD all
              have the same way to install new software and place config
              \ Compared to say redhat versus gentoo versus suse?  you bet.
                \_ presumably, you're not running redhat, gentoo, and suse.
                   You should be comparing a distribution to a BSD branch.
              \_ On a linux box, applications dump all over the filesystem.
                 Changing network settings by creating files in /proc/* is
                 fucking idiotic, for example.  Documentation for linux is
                       \_ man sysctl
                          \_ that's not what the docs say to do.
                             \_ I believe that was already covered by the next
                                statement about "out of date".
                 out of date, if it exists at all.  I haven't used netbsd in a
                       \_ point taken
                 while but for open and free: (cd /usr/ports/foo/appname ; make
                 install) is pretty straight forward.  No rpm hell.  No
                       \_ rpms suck ass... rpms != linux
                       \_ emerge, apt-get
                          \_ What does apt have that assures you you're not
                             installing trojaned code?
                             \_ apt works with rpm
                             \_ signatures in rpms, debsigs
                 wondering if the binaries I'm downloading were corrupted.  BSD
                 just works.  You have some counter examples?
                 \_ how do you know that the source you're compling from
                    ports wasn't corrupted?
                    \_ The ports directory has MD5 checksums of the source
                       tarballs.  Unless your ports tree is corrupt, you'll
                       be warned if you download a corrupt source tarball.
                       \_ well OK then, how do you know that your MD5 checksums
                          of the source tarballs are accurate?
                          \_ You got them when you installed your OS.  If they
                             are fucked, bad ports are the least of your
                             \_ You have to re-get them when the ports MD5s
                                change, right?
2004/5/26 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30432 Activity:nil
5/26    How does one see just the end of a file in Unix/Linux?  Say I have
        2 gigs of text log, and I just want to see the last page.
        \_ tail
           \_ Thanks!
        \_ check out the -f option from the man pages.
2004/5/26 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:30427 Activity:high
5/25    What should I do to remedy this?
        % df
        Filesystem           1k-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
        /dev/sda3            -1022690446876         1         0  33% /
        /dev/sda1            -16257820653         1         0  10% /boot
        /dev/hda1            -5279228168420         1         0  72% /var
        /dev/hda2            -7918895146583         1         0   3% /home/sunny
        \_ most likely have to reboot
        \_ df | tr -d -
        \_ get fstat to return unsigned values.
        \_ reboot!
        \_ Treat your linux box like the windows box it really is when it comes
           to reliability and stability.  Reboot.  Get a real OS built by
           professionals so it won't ever happen again.
           \_ USE LINUX!
2004/5/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:30246 Activity:nil
5/15    what's the easiest way for me to install (from source) every
        package that i need to install a given debian source package?
2004/5/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30108 Activity:very high
5/8     On the linux ls discussion from the other day, this is my take:
        Using/learning linux specific flags is all fine and good, and
        adding new features to old tools is too, but when I have to
        switch between 5 different OSes in a given day, it's simply a
        waste of my time.  There are many ways to solve a given problem.
        Linux's solution always seems to be "add another flag".  If you're
        a Linux only shop, have at it.  Learn all the little idiosyncracies
        of your favorite flavor.  But god help you when you get an HPUX
        box thrown at you. --scotsman
        \_ Relax, you'll live longer. Learn how to use alias and edit
           the default profile. -williamc
           \_ You miss the point entirely.  Sometimes this is not an option.
              If you're not a sysadmin then this discussion doesn't matter.
              I'm talking about efficiency in work situations. --scotsman
        \_ Compare:
           ls -S               6 keypresses
           ls -l|sort -n +4    18 keypresses
           Is that something you want to type for such a simple user task?
           It's just arrogant and silly to not do it, for something so
           common and easy. Including the date or name sort is no more valid.
           On soda there is "dir" which has it. Go study UI principles.
           \_ This is the stupidest thing I've seen on motd in weeks.
              Comparing the number of keypresses?  Christ, man, it's about
              getting the job done as effectively as possible.  When you're
              down to counting keystrokes, you've lost touch with reality about
              what constitutes a sane metric for efficiency.
              \_ effective? What's more effective about piping to sort? it's
                 more limiting, and more obscure. And yes, it takes more effort
                 to type that shit out. It's not about "efficiency" so much as
                 simple ease of use and consistency. That's reality. Not some
                 elitist ubergeek deciding to simply put a note in the man page
                 about how it's not needed. Obviously the fact that it's in
                 the man page means it's a desired feature.
                 \_ What's more effective than piping it to sort?  Could you
                    have missed the point any more?  Jeeesus.
                    \_ Ever stop to consider you're the one missing the point?
                       \_ Yes, but I'm not.  Have a cookie.
                 \_ It's not more obscure.  In fact it's less obscure and more
                    consistent unless you're immersed in Linux.  Why is this
                    point so hard to grasp? --scotsman
                    \_ Forget the status quo, it's more obscure from a
                       usability standpoint. I have to know about the sort
                       command and that I have to do ls -l and sort on that
                       4th column but oh I might need the -n for numeric
                       vs. lexical sorting. Honestly this is really really
                       basic. It's not consistent that there is built-in
                       date sort, or alphabetical sort, and not size sort,
           \_ In 10 years, I think there still be be Windows and Mac OS.
                       the only other basic file property. It's not consistent
                       that I need the long detailed listing when with a
                       builtin it could just work like normal. And it's just
                       plain inconvenient. You don't have to be "immersed
                       in Linux" to see that. I barely even use Linux. It's
                       just common sense and refusing to worship status quo.
                       Oh and I'm just arguing about what's correct, not
                       the "least-common-denominator" factor of working with
                       15 different unixes.
                       \_ Did it ever occur to you that sometimes the status
                          quo *is* the status quo because it has worked well
                          since before you were born and is just plain better?
                       \_ The extension of the point is that when you have
                          learned to use sort appropriately you can then
                          apply it in other cases.  Read the philosophy of
                          UNIX page partha posted below.  If you don't work
                          on 15 different unixes then, as I said above, this
                          discussion doesn't apply to you.  If I get pulled in
                          to help out a client to save a $100k sale, I have
                          to get the job done quickly.  Knowing the least-
                          common-denominator allows me to get up to speed
                          quickly.  It's not worshiping anything.  It's doing
                          my job well. --scotsman
                          \_ you know, it's possible to know how to use
                             "sort," and still support the idea of
                             internalizing functions in Unix utilities in
                             appropriate ways.  You don't need "find -nouser"
                             to be able to find files without a legitimate
                             owner, but it's clearly a functional enhancement
                             to the original "find" functionality.  As for
                             the "philosophy of Unix", don't you think it's
                             a bit ironic that the person posting it is
                             mr. emacs?  -tom
                             \_ Either you're following the unix philosophy or
                                you're trying to circumvent and short cut it
                                and that way leads to madness and windows
                                methodology and chaos.
                          \_ well, clearly there is a "merit of having -S in
                             ls" discussion going on, although the thread
                             didn't start with that. But it's devolved into
                             reiterating already-stated points.
                             \_ So rather than being obtuse you're merely off-
                 \_ Obviously?  So if I write a man page that says you don't
                    understand the core concept of unix utilities then it
                    becomes obvious?  Sigh, I shall explain for the unwashed:
                    the core concept you're missing is that unix is about
                    having lots of little utilities that each do one thing
                    really well.  You create a stream of data from little
                    util to the next via pipes and out pops the right thing
                    at the other end.  I know 'ls' and 'sort'.  I know I can
                    pipe from one to other.  I know this works on every *nix
                    system I might ever touch.  This is called portability.
                    Linux is the bastard child here, not the non-Linux real
                    unixen you're deriding.  Linux is following the Windows
                    style of over loading programs with things that seem neat
                    at the time but turn into bloated crap later.  I like Unix.
                    I accept Windows.  I do not want my Unix bloated up into a
                    half assed Windows a la Linux.  Simplicity, son.  KISS.
                    \_ you dolt, yes I know about all that shit. "son". my
                       point is simply about the usability issue. I don't care
                       what other unices are doing, I'm saying that they should
                       do this. Whoever wrote that man page obviously knew
                       about the option and knew there were poeple wanting it.
                       -S is not "bloated crap" any more than -t or -r. ls
                       is probably the most common command users run. Listing
                       files is what ls does, it should "do it well". I could
                       write a man page that says vi is unnecessary because
                       you have ED IS THE STANDARD!
                       \_ Sorting on a date with sort is not the same as
                          sorting on an integer such as size.  Please explain
                          in what way I am a dolt.  Is it that I read your mind
                          and understand what you don't understand to such a
                          degree that you have nothing left to say but insult
                          me?  If that is the case, then yes, I am a dolt.
                          \_ It sure is the same, son. Sorting on a date isn't
                             algorithmically identical, so what, irrelevant.
                             You're ignoring the big picture. I'm done arguing
                             for today though. Btw ls could easily output the
                             date in a sortable manner. Unix philosophy doesn't
                             require factoring everything into as many programs
                             as possible.
           \_ alias ls-S "ls -l | sort -n +4"
              now you can type "ls-S" in 5 keypresses!  for common tasks, you
              can make the number of required keystrokes arbitrarily short or
              long.  non-issue.
              \_ duh. of course you can make an alias. totally beside the
                 point. of course you'd have to do more work to make it work
                 just like a real "ls -S" would.
        \_ This is why after 10 more years, there will only be Linux
           and nothing else, because the other OS are simply too arrogant
           to do anything about it. Take for example the man pages on
           Solaris, I mean how much effort does it take to make it so that
           it will format according to your screen and does not produce
           the stupid 24 line page header every page? Everytime I look at
           the man page on Solaris I curse it. The linux one is so much
           better. One reason why SunOS is fading.
           \_ You know, I HATE working on Solaris.  Nothing works the way
              that I'm used to without aliasing everything.  However, when
              we were running our server on Solaris it never once crashed in
              the entire time I was in charge of it.  I can't say the same
              for any of the Linux installs I've set up.
           \_ In 10 years, I think there still will be Windows and Mac OS.
              Your arguments for Linux and against other Unix OSs are the
              the same as the arguments for Windows/Mac OS and against Linux.
              Every time I read a man page I curse it.  Hyperlinked help files
              are so much better.
              \_ personally, I find the statement "after 10 more years, there
                 will only be xxxxx and nothing else... " to be pretty
                 absurd in the context of any technological question.
                 \- the amount of wrongheadedness in this thread is amazing.
                    but rather than agrue, the youth ought to read ... --psb
                    \_ excellent.  --scotsman
                    \_ Yes!  Finally!  This should be mandatory reading before
                       geting into core CS classes or getting a Soda account.
           \_ In 10 more years Linux will 'rewl' because the man pages format
              better than on Solaris?  If that's the best you can come up with
              then just stick with Windows and reboot a lot.
2004/5/7-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:30096 Activity:very high
5/7     So Redhat has this enterprise line that costs big bux. Anyone seen
        Seems to have all advantages with no cost, except the vague uneasiness
        of not being "real" red hat. Are real enterprises using clones?
        \_ Linux is linux. The kernel is exactly the same. You are paying
           for support for RHE, not the software.
           \_ redhat has been backporting 2.6 features into their 2.4 kernel,
              so 'the kernel is exactly the same' isn't always true
           \_ In theory but some ISVs only certify their shit for RHEL.
              If stuff is set up to work on their particular setup then you'd
              want to use that instead of "Fedora" or something.
        \_ Real enterprises don't use linux.  Real enterprises are happy to
           spend tremendous amounts of money so when something goes wrong the
           guy who purchased the stuff doesn't get fired.  Instead, they grab
           the vendor by the balls and the vendor's staff works day and night
           to resolve the problem.  When the NYSE is run on the same linux I
           can download or buy off the shelf from Compusa, lemme know.  Some
           places will use linux in non-critical locations and cluster the
           shit out of it so several simultaneous failures doesn't cost
           someone their career.
           \_ A lot of banks in NY still use VAXes. Don't look to them.
              They have more money than sense. They will still spend
              millions to upgrade their IBM mainframes. Plenty of "real
              enterprises" use Linux.
              \_ The poster is defining "real enterprise" as "any enterprise
                 that doesn't use Linux".
                 \_ Nonsense.  I describe it above and again below and ask
                    for some campany names as well.  You're so cheeky but not
                    quite as clever as you'd like to believe.
                    \_ E*TRADE uses Linux on IBM hardware with an IBM
                       contract. My dad's company (large manufacturer of
                       car accessories) runs MVS on an emulator on a Linux
                       box and it (not surprisingly) was faster than the
                       old mainframe. IBM wanted $1 million for an upgrade
                       and this solution cost $100K and works great!
                       \_ Further research shows that Schwab also runs
                          Linux supported by IBM. I think IBM's support of
                          Linux is key.
                          \_ That isn't the same Linux I can buy at compusa.
                             Also, that IBM hardware and contract is the key
                             concept I've stated 3 times now: no one is going
                             to pick anything that will get them fired.  With
                             IBM on the hook to fix anything and work 24x7 on
                             it, the purchasing manager's career is safe(r).
                             If you were at a real company and chose Linux but
                             didn't have a company like IBM behind you'd be
                             a) stupid, and b) looking for a new job while the
                             company c) put out a job req for someone who
                             understand that $1m or $100k is *nothing* when
                             your entire company is on the line.
                             \_ You make no sense. Since IBM supports
                                Linux it is okay? Either the OS is capable
                                or it is not. Is your issue one of
                                support? If so, sign a contract with IBM.
                                \_ IBM won't just "sign a contract".  It has to
                                   be *their* version of unix, their install,
                                   their guys involved in the architecture and
                                   design phase, etc.  I'm just guessing here
                                   but you're not working yet, huh?
                                   \_ So, assuming you're the guy who claimed
                                      "Real enterprises don't use linux,"
                                      you've basically realized you've made
                                      yourself look like an idiot, and are now
                                      spouting ad hominem arguments in a weak
                                      attempt to save face. Real enterprises
                                      use linux. Sure, their particular
                                      distribution has to be certified, and
                                      running on certified hardware, so that
                                      someone will be willing to provide a
                                      support contract. This does not mean that
                                      the linux they run is so much different
                                      than the linux you can run.
                                \_ Here, let's use a real-life example to
                                   illustrate the point.  Ugly fat biker
                                   dude offers to give you an enema.  You
                                   reject the offer.  Hot chick in nurse
                                   uniform offers to give you an an enema.
                                   You jump at the offer.  Same enema,
                                   different person making the offer,
                                   different reaction.
                                   \_ This post wins the best motd analogy
                                      in recent memory award.
                                        -- motd enema analogy dude #1 fan
              \_ You don't seem to understand what "Enterprise level" means.
                 Do you even know what a mainframe is?  Do you have any idea
                 what a cluster of VAXen can do?  Name the Fortune 500 company
                 that is using stock Linux in a mission critical role.  No one
                 is stupid enough to put billions of dollars or lives on the
                 line by using Linux to save a few bucks.
                 \_ Well, I am not sure if google is fortune 500, but they are
                    using linux in a 'mission critical role'.
                 \_ There are two mentioned just above your post.  Let me
                    guess, they're "not using it in a mission critical role."
                    \_ I replied above.
                 \_ What's frightening is that "real enterprises" use MS
                    Windows at the enterprise level. How does that factor
                    into your argument?
                    \_ Name that Fortune 100 company and we'll discuss it.
                       \_ how about MSFT
                          \_ *laugh*  And we've seen the effect of _that_ on
                             their security, uptime, etc.  That is why RE's
                             don't care if a project costs $100k or $1m when
                             their multi-$B company is on the line.  Those
                             kinds of numbers are so trivially small they don't
                             matter.  Stop thinking small potatos.
2004/4/30-5/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:13504 Activity:nil
4/30    What's a good simple freeware/shareware spreadsheet program for
        Palm OS 5?
        \_ USE LINUX!
2004/4/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13247 Activity:nil
4/16    I use a 250GB WD disk with a single ext3 filesystem for making
        backups, and it had a directory that containted all my system
        snapshot backup directories.  Yesterday, I discovered that the
        directory has somehow turned into a text file containing the
        content of /etc/login.defs. Is there a way to fix this without
        removing all the hanging inodes, and thus removing all the backups?
        I've heard people complain about ext filesystems.  What reliable
        filesystems do you recommend for use on a linux non-root filesystem
        used for making backups?
        \_ Sigh... ext2: suck0rz.  ext3 = ext2 + pseudo journal = suck0rz with
           pseudo journaling.  I haven't used reiserfs enough to comment.  I
           have used xfs extensively on 2.2 and 2.4 boxes and in those
           environments, xfs = suck0rz.  I haven't ever used jfs or any of the
           less common linux file systems.  I've read the xfs on 2.6 has been
           greatly improved but that's what they said for xfs on 2.4 right
           before I lost 2 terabytes on 2.4 xfs.  Using some psychotic reverse
           logic, I'd recommend JFS or Reiserfs only because I haven't used
           them yet and thus haven't had data loss on those FSs.  ;-)
           As far as your repairs go, try this:
                1) dd the drive to another drive so you have a copy and then
                   do the following on that copy so you don't fuck up the only
                   copy you've got,
                2) try a simple forced fsck on the copy and see what happens.
                   a second forced fsck and a reboot is worth the extra 30
                   seconds of effort if the first doesn't work just because,
                3) if that doesn't work, there are a number of file recovery
                   utilities out there that *may* be able to recover some of
                   your back up files,
                3b) if this is company data, there are professional data
                    recovery firms that *will* recover most, if not all, of
                    your lost data in this situation but they will charge you
                    anywhere between $20,000 and $80,000 and will not guarantee
                    success to any degree before they start.
                4) good luck, I've been there, corrupt FSs suck.  It sounds
                   like you don't have a second backup or anything on tape.
                        --motd storage guru
                   \_ Thanks. I don't have a second backup, but that seems like
                      a good idea. What's the best way to get 250GB on tape?
                      perhaps I'll get another 250 GB disk and firewire
           \_ Your "VaporWare has no bugs" logic makes me suspicious of your
              "storage guru" status, but what specific problems are you aware
              of with ext3?  -Not a Linux Fan, but using it.
              \_ It should have been clear to anyone with basic English
                 reading comprehension skills exactly what I meant and why I
                 said that.  However, for you I shall explain: since all of
                 the linux FSs I've used extensively have severe problems,
                 the only alternative when seeking a viable FS is to try
                 something unknown.  It may have bugs.  It may not.  It should
                 have been clear from my own description of my own logic in
                 that regard that I wasn't vouching for FSs unknown to me in
                 extensive daily usage.  As far as ext3 is concerned, it has
                 the same corruption problems as ext2 since it is little more
                 than ext2 with pseudo journaling kludge on.  Once you get
                 over your core comprehension problem we can discuss my
                 qualifications vs. those of others on the motd for storage
                 guru status.  I know of at least one person here who works
                 for Veritas.  Other than that I'm unaware of and never seen
                 any exceptional knowledge from other motd posters.  If you
                 prefer I can simply stop answering storage questions since
                 my flawed logic has so clearly tainted my advise in your
                 eyes.  I don't care either way.  -- msg
                 \_ What is wrong with ext3 other than "I have experienced
                    crashes"?  Is it a performance problem with small files,
                    large files, filesystem corruption, metadata operation
                    problems, a problem with crash recovery due to async
                    operation, journaling strategy or implementation etc.
                    If you really were a file system guru, you would have
                    given feedback in these terms.
                    \_ Nonsense.  I'm not a paid consultant for the motd.
                       Back to reading comprehension and context.  Since the
                       op was concerned with FS corruption, what do *YOU*
                       think I was talking about?  --msg
                    \_ What filesystem do you recommend?
                       \_ It depends on the purprose obviously.
                          I wouldn't recommend GPFS for a desk top
                          but for a high performance set up, GPFS
                          has an interesting design.  Are you setting
                          up a mail spool?  db?  newsspool?  Home p0rn
                          and warez store?
                          \_ One for snapshot-backups, another for
                             all-purpose sever, mail, web etc.
                             \- for my decent sized data operations,
                                say ~1tb, i use freebsd. minor vinum
                                problems but in general very solid,
                                even in the face of yank-the-cord-out
                                type crashes. for my "large data" either
                                we dont really care too much about
                                performance or reliability [batch processing
                                on scratch data] or we use sort of exotic
                                stuff that probably doesnt apply in your case.
                                andrew hume is a "large data" consumer who
                                doesnt like linux and is someone i'd trust
                                on blind faith, although that was a while ago.
                                i dont know if he has changed his mind with
                                linux 2.6. i'm not totally clear what his
                                problems where. i've seen linux corrupt data
                                for unknown reasons, bad memory, bad ethernet
                                driver in addition to crashes. the only major
                                problem i had on freebsd had to do with the
                                whole box crashing ... which may have had
                                something to do with a raid card [it looked
                                like a hw prob, but it wouldnt manifest when
                                the same hardware was running linux, knoppix]
                                etc. and dont get me started on about linux
                                block/char dev, caching, dumping issues.--psb
                                \_ you consider 1tb to be decent sized?  uhm,
                                   yeah, whatever.  that's peanuts.
                 \_ Hear hear, ext2/3 is absolutely horrible in case of
                    catastrophic failure. It is exceedingly crash sensitive,
                    surprisingly even more so than UFS, which at least
                    attempts to appear crash resilient with it's fsck
                    hell. I just recently lost my umpteenth ext2/3 partition
                    last week on a new machine when an IRQ conflict
                    kept hanging the machine. -williamc
                 \_ Random question -- is it easy to get fbsd fs (any) to work
                    with linux?
                    \- why dont you install fbsd and run with linux application
                       compat options.
                       \_ Because fbsd is just a lot more difficult to use than
                          linux.  For instance, linux compat isn't, as you
                          well know.
                          \_ freebsd harder than linux?  holy shit, son!  where
                             did you get *that* idea from?  the free, online
                             freebsd handbook is clearly organised and has
                             updated to answers to all your major setup, config
                             and performance questions.  linux is a mishmash of
                             google searching and prayer.  --  old **nix admin
                             \_ Uh ... huh.  Like why ports doesn't work?
                 \_ What is your opinion/experience with reiserfs?
                 \_ I have used ext3 extensively with no issues. I have
                    about 6 TB of storage with file sizes of several GBs.
                    What exactly is the problem?
                    \_ that's what we call 'getting lucky' in the IT world.
                       i hope you're keeping really good backups.  of the
                       80 or so tb had on ext3, about 5tb spontaneously
                       corrupted with no advanced warning.  unrecoverable.
                       my company no longer uses linux for storage systems
                       after the zillion crash and data loss event.
                    \- on performance issues you can look at the freenix
                       paper by bryant forrester hawks. i dont know if there
                       is an update to the paper [pls post if you know] --psb
                       \_ What if performance isn't an issue?
                          \- then use AssOS with AssFS
                \_ ok another question, how easy is it to mirror
                   all partitions, including /, in freebsd with
                   software RAID ?
                   \- hmm, this is an interesting time to be asking.
                      if you are not invested in freebsd4 you might look
                      at GEOM. anyone using GEOM? also, in my experience
                      if you are not pretty familar with veritas, disk suite,
                      vinum etc you could be getting yourself into trouble
                      by booting off of it. after a machine has crashed is
                      not when you want to be reading man pages because
                      you used to do everything with GUIs etc. --psb
                      \_ heh, aint that the truth.  make sure you've got a
                         bootable recovery cd and keep it up to date.  this
                         applies to all boot disk raid systems.
        \_ summary of above: ask a performance question regarding your
           intended workload.  ask a reliability question based on your
           expected failure modes.  if your most likely failures are
           due to putting the system into random states w/ bad hardware,
           bad power, or bad kernel modules: you need off-line backups.
           we've been running a multi-TB filesystem on a dual processor
           dell xeon server w/ software RAID0 striping for over a year
           that gets completely beat on by local processes and NFS clients
           who use it as volatile scratch space, yet we've never had a
           problem.  it lives in the relatively controlled environment
           of a machine room.  i believe we're using ext3 w/ relatively
           stock redhat 9 software.
           \_ ext3 on redhat, hehe, you've got another copy of anything
              important, right?  it took about year before i started seeing
              problems, but maybe you wont see that since you're not keeping
              data there long term.
              \_ Some people have apparently had issues. At least two of
                 us on the motd have not. Your experience does not match mine.
                 Maybe your hardware sucks or there is some other variable.
2004/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:13177 Activity:nil
4/14    The Luxury of Ignorance: An Open Source Horror Story
        And a nice response:
        \_ Nice response?  More like a head in a hole response.
           \_ Uhhh... no.  The response is that ESR doesn't even understand
              the extent of the problem.  How is this a "head in a hole"
        \_ not really an "open source" horror story... more like a unix
           configuration horror story. or linux or whatever *nix this guy
           has. nothing related to "open source" about the problem
           \_ Way to not read any of the articles!
2004/4/10 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:29914 Activity:nil
4/10    Does anyone know how Redhat turns on IP forwarding? Apparently you can
        set a directive FORWARD_IPV4=yes in /etc/sysconfig/network, but I can't
        seem to find the script (or whatever) that acts on this. I know you can
        'echo 1 > /proc/net/ipv4/ip_forward' to do the same thing, but I'd like
        to find that file in hopes of also finding a list of other similar
        directives. Google also does not seem to be coming up with a definitive
        list of these things. Thanks.
2004/4/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:13105 Activity:nil
4/8     I just ported over a kernel module for linux. It works. Where do
        I get documentation on how to modify the standard make xconfig so
        that my driver shows up as a menu choice? Thanks. --williamc
2004/4/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:13063 Activity:nil
4/7     I have very little experience with tape backups.  I have to grab data
        off of tapes that are of unknown format.  Is there an easy way to
        identify what format the data are saved in?  This will be done on a
        linux box.
        \_ dd if=/dev/nstX of=tmp bs=2048k count=1
           file tmp (or whatever you call the file)
           This will recognize at least tar and dump formats not sure
           about networker/netbackup/other comercial apps.
           \_ Awesome.  Thanks.
           \_ that won't "recognize" anything at all; it will copy the
              raw data off the tape, transferring the problem from "what format
              is this tape in?" to "what format is this file in?"
              \_ % file tmp
2004/3/30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12938 Activity:nil
3/30    Tomehardware has a piece on switching to Linux. Thly shoud re-run
        their CPU comparison test on Linux. It could now include the 386
        and 486.
        \_ Linux is for people who enjoy building, installing, and configuring
           for its own sake.
           \- and not doing any work since that has now soaked up all
              your time.
2004/3/25-26 [Science/Electric, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12847 Activity:low
3/25    The Linux Users Group of MT View/Freedom Technology Center
        is sending any computer book you donate to Iraq.
        Collection on Friday 3/26. -joshk
        \_ I think they need a copy of the federalist papers first.
2004/3/21-22 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/SCO] UID:12789 Activity:kinda low
3/21    Does anyone know the deal on this whole SCO/Linux thing?  Has SCO
        told anyone the specific code they think is stolen?  Is it stolen
        or copied?  What is the deal here anyway?  Couldn't Linux just
        rewrite the code in question and the situation out be dead?
        \_ kids these days and their researching skills...
        \_ So far, every single line of code they showed turned out
           to be BSD code, public domain code, genuine Linux code, and similar.
           I think the claim of copied code was just a PR campaign to convince
           the laymen that indeed something apparently has been copied from
           SCO. The crux of SCO's case I think is that they're accusing IBM of
           donating to Linux code that they claim has been "derived" from the
           original Unix code, such as the JFS file systems. Maybe I am wrong,
           you might want to list all the recent SCO-related articles on
           slashdot, to get the idea ..
        \_ SCO didn't want to release the code because they knew these hacker
           geeks will do exactly that.  SCO is desperate and looking for way
           to milk money out of other people's hard work.
           \_ Microsoft's puppet... to push people towards Windoze
        \_ I'll assume you're not trolling for a moment: assuming SCO is right
           and code was stolen, changing it after the fact doesn't zero any
           previous damage done to SCO's business.  It *does* limit future
           damage but the past is the past.  I no longer believe they have a
           case *but* if they did a rewrite won't save anyone from being sued
           and paying penalties for previous theft.
           \_ In a civil tort, the plaintiff has a duty to try and minimize
              their damages.  Since the open-source community basically told
              them "show us the code and we'll fix it", SCO will have a hard
              time claiming damages from the period after they notified the
              community.  They had an opportunity to to have people fix the
              problem, for free, and they wouldn't identify the code.
2004/3/19-20 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12766 Activity:nil
3/19    On a Debian system with a mix of testing and stable packages, is
        there a way to list all the installed packages that came from
        the "testing" distribution?
2004/3/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12737 Activity:nil
3/17    Anyone know how to increase the linux console buffer size?
        ie, the one you get with shift-pageup? thx.
2004/3/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12705 Activity:nil
3/16    debian newbie question. so i compiled a new kernel (2.4.18,
        2.4.19, 2.6.0) but when i boot with it, the modules no longer
        work, if i link /lib/modules/.... to the correct kernel name,
        it complains that the modules are not compiled for 2.4.18-bf2.
        So what is the correct way to try a new kernel on linux for
        debian? thx.
        \_ In general, compiling source requires "make bzImage;make modules;
           make modules_install;make bzlilo(or whatever you do to let your
           boot loader load the kernel). make modules_install will install
           the modules ot /lib/modules.  The debian way is make_kpkg
           kernel_images to create the deb package and install using dpkg.
           \_ you mean make-kpkg clean; make-kpkg kernel_image;
              cd ..; dpkg -i <kernel_package>
              \_ exactly.  which boot manager are you using?
           \_ another newbie question, i ran make modules, all works. then
              I ran make modules_install, I got

find kernel -path '*/pcmcia/*' -name '*.o' | xargs -i -r ln -sf ../{} pcmcia
if [ -r ]; then /sbin/depmod -ae -F  2.4.19; fi
depmod: *** Unresolved symbols in /lib/modules/2.4.19/kernel/drivers/net/wan/wanpipe.o
depmod:         register_wan_device_Rsmp_25269802
depmod:         lock_adapter_irq_Rsmp_7e6ae263
depmod:         wanrouter_encapsulate_Rsmp_a5336dd5
depmod:         unlock_adapter_irq_Rsmp_1e7b9a43
depmod:         unregister_wan_device_Rsmp_0ebe03d1
depmod:         wanrouter_type_trans_Rsmp_5cb5fb99
make: *** [_modinst_post] Error 1

             Is this something to be ignored or??

        \_ btw, you may want to use some newer kernels that don't have the
           variety of local exploits reported in recent weeks.
           \_ such as? what version do you recommend?
              \_ like, say, the latest? or at least get a version with the
                 backported patches.
                 \_ get the source for 2.4.25-1 if you want to use 2.4
                    \_ exchange known security holes for unknown bugs/holes.
                       \_ or exchange new unknown bugs/holes for old
                          unknown bugs/holes.
           \_ use the 2.4.18-1-foo debian kernel. (where foo is your
              processor) When linux kernel exploits are found, the debian
              security team back-ports the patches and release an updated
              2.4.18 kernel-image. This way you don't have to deal with any
              of the hassles involved with compiling a kernel. nor do you
              have to wait for testing/unstable to releases the next kernel
              version. and by using the same kernel version, you're not
              forced to upgrade libraries and api's required by the new
              \_ it's not really a big hassle, once you've learned how.
                 and debian's kernel is not going to be nearly as optimized
                 as one you build yourself. ergo, the whole point of wanting
                 to build your own kernel.
2004/3/12-13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12634 Activity:high
3/12    RedHat, Suse, or Debian? I am seriously thinking of installing
        one on my machine...
        \_ Free RedHat as you know is has reached it's end. RedHat 9 was the
           last of it. There will still be RedHat Professional, which is
           RHEL but only costs $90. I highly recommend Fedora if you want
           to keep up with the latest and greatest in Linux.
        \_ Die SuSe ich nicht fur die motdhozen unt warezhausen.
        \_ USE LINUX!
        \_ have you used linux before? you can start with Knoppix. It doesn't
           touch your harddrive, just boots from a CD and runs. it's useful
           for those who want to taste linux before they actually commit to it
           \_ Yes, I've used slackware back in the old days...
        \_ RIDE BIKE!
        \_ Debian. It's a communitty, not a corporation. It's the easiest
           to maintain. Once you've installed it, you can upgrade
           everything, including the kernel. No need to reinstall
           a net version later.
           \_ Suse detects the hardware for you, with Debian, do I have to know
              what my hardware is?
              \_ You want hardware detection?  Install Knoppix.  Knoppix is a
                 Debian distro.  Boot from the cd, then do a hdx-install.
                 Knoppix is the best HW detecting distro I've seen.  Then use
                 apt-get to get up to date.  Did that the other day at the
                 office, was the easiest linux install yet.
                \_ Debian's hw detection isn't as good as SuSE, but it is
                   fairly good. (SuSE isn't perfect either, we've had lots
                   of problems with video cards/fb's with SuSE 8.1, 9 and
                   \_ I don't understand why all distributions don't have the
                      exact same quality for HW detection.  Aren't the routines
                      open source and GPL??
                      \_ So?  That doesn't mean everyone uses the same one.
                         Each distribution has its own installer.
                         \_ Yes, yes, but underneath what is the excuse for not
                            borrowing the HW detection code for different parts
                            from each other?  Why reinvent the wheel?  Isn't
                            that supposed to be one of the benefits of OS?
                                \_ Not everyone wants to build all the bits
                                   the same way. RH and SuSE build the bits
                                   differently (incorporating different patches,
                                   testing different kernel versions, glibc
                                   version, XFree86 fb drivers, &c.). RH's
                                   hw detection requires you to have things
                                   built in the same way as RH builds them,
                                   since SuSE (and Debian) do things differently
                                   (for various reasons, i18n/l10n, stability,
                                   &c.) RH's stuff won't work for other
                                   \_ what?  I'm talking about HW detection,
                                      not how drivers are installed or what
                                      version.  The hardware is the same.  So
                                      why don't they all *detect* the HW to
                                      the same level of quality?
                   \_ which one is debian's hd detection? it doesn't detect
                      much for me.. do i need to run it manually?
                \_ Hardware is usually obvious. Read the numbers on the
                   chips. and '/sbin/lspci'. Google for specs.
        \_ If you have never used Linux before but have some familiarity
           with svr4 type systems (Solaris, HP-UX), then I would recommend
           RH 8 or 9. RH is easy to setup and provides a pretty good learning
           environment to get comfortable with Linux. If you want to deploy
           RH for some real purpose you may start running into problems with
           their default tool-chain (RH has shipped with buggy snapshot jvms
           and gcc versions instead of stable versions) and RPM-hell.
           If you have already used Linux, try Debian; it isn't as easy to
           get running but it is far more stable than RH and is much easier
           to maintain (apt is very nice).
           I've heard good things about Debian-Gentoo which is supposed to
           provide /usr/src and /usr/ports type source access but I haven't
           tried it out yet.
           \_ it's just gentoo, it's got nothing to do with debian.
                \_ Sorry my mistake. Someone at work told me that Gentoo
                   was part of the Debian GNU/{Linux,HURD} stuff.
           \_ Define what you mean by "RPM hell"
              \_ i imagine rpm hell is the situation where you're trying to
                 install an rpm not built by redhat inc. and there is a
                 bunch of other dependencies you have to find rpms for. this
                 doesn't happen in debian or gentoo because they have
                 centralized repositories for this stuff.
              \_ Rpm dependency handling is problem. Rpm determines the
                 dependencies of an rpm on files and libraries when the
                 rpm is built. If the system that you are installing the
                 rpm on has a different set of files and libraries (say
                 you've applied some security/stability patches) than
                 the system the rpm was built on you often run into
                 install problems forcing you to use --force or --nodeps
                 which can leave your rpm db in an inconsistent state.
                 RH frequently releases updates that must be installed
                 in some specific order otherwise you can't install all
                 the updates. The problem is also present in commercial
                 pgms that try and build one set of rpms for a large set
                 of systems (RH 6 and newer and most versions of SuSE).
        \_ What are you using now?  *BSD?  *Windows?
           URL self-explanatory.
           \_ Isn't that French? Plus it has all that gay star/magic motif.
              cf. TV magic queers.
              \_ you'd rather be running "potato"?
                 \_ woody !
                    \_ forget mr potato head, go with the sarge!
              \_ Try it.
        \_ Debian. It's maintained by a communitty, not a corporation. It's
           the most efficient to maintain. Once you've installed it, you can
           upgrade everything, including the kernel. No need to reinstall a
           new version later.
        \_ You should use SCO UNIX.
        \_ I like Suse, but ymmv.  I'd stay away from RedHat because they've
           abandoned non-commercial users.
                 \_ I don't have time to mess with Linux now. Back when I did,
                    Mandrake was actually the first one I tried. I don't really
                    see the point of Mandrake now, it seems redundant.
                    If I was going to use one now I'd probably go with Gentoo.
                    I don't know what I'd use for "real work".
2004/3/9-10 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Security] UID:12588 Activity:nil
3/8     Where can I find the definitions of the 3 timestamps associated
        with a file on a linux system: "Access  Modify  Change"
        \_ On most OS's that informaion is in the ls man page. Or do you
           need something more detailed?
           \_ Yes, I need to know the exact technical definition
              of "Changed" in this context. I'm trying to track down
              when/how my /usr/bin/perl file got changed from the debian
              "stable" version to the "testing" 5.8.2 version. Thanks.
              \_ is man 2 stat sufficient?
                 \_ Yes siree. Perfect. Thank You!
2004/3/8 [Computer/SW/Editors, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12558 Activity:nil
3/7     Note to self: Debian cleans out /var/run on reboot.  This is a bad
        thing if you place Cyrus imapd's config directory under /var/run.
        \_ linux = sux0rz!
        \_ heh, it also cleans out /tmp -- which sucks when you work on
           some stuff on there, and then you kill your system =[
           \_ you should never work on anything important in /tmp as
              many systems use a memory fs for /tmp which will always
              be cleared on reboot.
              \_ yea... I know, bad habit... but speaking of tmp...
                 screwdriver: /var/tmp -> /tmp
                 Don't important things like editor recovery files end up
                 in /var/tmp?
                 \_ noone ever said screwdriver was run well.
                 \_ Seeing as I was bit on the ass on /var/run, it would
                    be unfair of me to think you foolish for making the
                    same mistake with /tmp, but I kind of took /tmp not
                    being preserved across reboots for granted.  And to
                    whoever asked if editor recovery files end up in
                    /var/tmp, you shouldn't need editor recovery files
                    after a clean reboot.  Do you think it is reasonable
                    \_ Um..  Multiuser system, anyone?
                       \_ Um, if you leave your *unsaved* edits to your PhD
                          thesis open for hours at a time on a system that
                          someone else may remotely reboot, you get what you
                          deserve. -op
                    to expect editor recovery files to *reliably* survive
                    a catastrophic system crash? If you think it is
                    reasonable, could you kindly explain how it is
                    possible, and cite an example of an OS that does
                    this? -op
                    \_ Yeah, put the editor recovery files in each user's
                       home directory.  It's not rocket science.
                       \_ This will not preserve the files in the event of a
                          catastrophic system crash.  Modern filesystems
                          buffer writes in memory for performance. -dans
                          \_ If you're going to play *that* game then no
                             modern OS is 'safe'.
                    \_ Yes it is reasonable and most OSes do this. Examples
                       are Linux, HP-UX, and Solaris.
                    \_ the whole *point* of editor recovery files is to
                       recover work lost in a catastrophic system crash. -tom
                       \_ Someone take root away from the OP immediately!
                          \_ no, learning by screwing up is the best way.  im
                             certain op will never make that or similar
                             mistakes on any OS again.
                       \_ Actually, no tom.  The whole point of editor
                          recovery files is to recover work lost in a
                          catastrophic *editor* crash.  In a catastrophic
                          system crash, you cannot *reliably* reconstruct the
                          state before the crash so you cannot *reliably*
                          recover.  In order for an editor to be able to
                          reliably recover from a catastrophic system crash,
                          it would need to write its recovery log to an
                          ACID-compliant store.  I am not aware of any editor
                          that does this, nor am I aware of any widely
                          available OS that features an ACID compliant
                          filesystem.  Perhaps veritas makes something like
                          this, but such a filesystem would be of limited use
                          since its performance would be awful. -op
                          \_ are you a complete moron?  /var/tmp has been
                             around for longer than ACID or Veritas have been.
                             It's not meant to be some kind of bank transaction
                             rollback log, it's meant to be "oh shit, I was
                             working on something important, can I recover
                             any of it?"  -tom
                             \_ not on debian!  hah!  Sorry op.
2004/3/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS] UID:12554 Activity:very high
3/7     Major exploit found in Linux 2.6 kernel.  All versions prior to 2.6.3
        affected.  2.4 and 2.2 may be affected, I haven't bothered to look:
        \_ This is a local exploit, for those who care.  It does affect
           Linux 2.4 and 2.2.
        \_ This is old news. It's the same vuln reported a few weeks ago,
           just with an exploit this time. People who have already upgraded
           to 2.4.25 or 2.6.3 don't need to worry about it.
           \_ are you sure?
              "Tested and known to be vulnerable kernel versions are all
               <= 2.2.25, <= 2.4.24 and <= 2.6.2. The 2.2.25 version of
               Linux kernel does not recognize the MREMAP_FIXED flag but
               this does not prevent the bug from being successfully
               \_ i said 2.4.25, not 2.2.25. i don't know anyone still
                  using 2.2.x.
                  \_ Oh, I am totally blind.. sorry.
2004/3/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12501 Activity:nil
3/3     How do I find out the size per block on my Linux machine? For example
        even if I have a file size of 1, how big is it really taking? Thanks.
        \_ stat(1) should give you this information
           \- bsd has statfs() which returns f_bsize long in the statfs struct.
              i dont know what AssOS does but haybe they have this too. --psb
                \_ linux has statfs(2) as well. AssOS, must remember that,
                   I usually see it referred to as L1NSUX.
                   \_ boy those are both really clever.
2004/3/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12467 Activity:nil
3/1     Does anyone know how to tell if an opteron system is running a 32
        bit linux kernel or a 64 bit linux kernel in RH 3.0 EL? tia.
        \_ Guessing: check the bootup logs?  uname?
           \_ it seems to print out x86_64 regardless of the kernel.
2004/2/16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12268 Activity:nil
2/15    Any of you BSDers gonna give up and move to Linux?
        \_ why?
        \_ Silly penguin, toys are for kids.
           \_ then, what is windows?
2004/2/13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12239 Activity:nil
2/12    I originally installed Redhat 8 on two fresh hard drives 9GB and 18GB
        (no pre-existing OS).  Redhat put files on both disks.  Is there a way
        to manually move everything from the 18GB to the 9GB (I have enough
        space)?  I'd like to use the 18GB just for data (which might be later
        shared with a Windows box).  STFW, but haven't found anything useful.
        Pointers to something on the web would help.  Thanks in advance.
        \_ You need to tell us what the layout looks like, and which drive it's
           booting off of.
        \_ As the above says it depends on the layout but you should be able to
           copy/move the files onto the 9gb drive and then re-do the 18gb.  You
           may already have a working layout or you may need to make a new
           partition, etc.  If this is a new system or you don't have much data
           on it, you'll find it's probably easier to jut wipe it and try
           again (after copying your data off, of course).  The RH install just
           isn't that hard.
2004/2/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12188 Activity:moderate
2/10    Is it me or is rpm's whole dependency system totally fucked?
        Installs are failing because of alleged dependencies on other
        rpm's that I know I have, -force isn't overriding this...
        any suggestions?
        \_ It isn't you.  You can try removing and reinstalling newer or
           required versions (as appropriate) of the things you're depending
           on, or (and no this isn't a troll) move to a system that doesn't
           use rpm such as debian or a non-linux system, or you can compile
           and install from source by hand the way we used to do it.
           \_ Speaking of moving to another system, has anyone used gentoo
              lately?  Is it usable?  Does it feel like it'll stick around?
              \_ FWIW one of the devs at my company goes into religious fits
                 of ecstasy everytime he has a chance to say the magic word,
                 "gentoo".  I've never used it though.
        \_ RPM has a really screwed up dependency system, esp. the way that
           it figures out what files it thinks your code depends on (building
           RPMs that work on multiple versions of RPM based distros is a
           PITA). The only think that I've seen that does a good job of
           handling the rpm dependencies is apt-rpm:
           Other than that you can try to use the --nodeps and --force options.
        \_ i had a corrupt DB once, so also try "rpm --rebuilddb"
2004/1/28 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11987 Activity:nil
1/28    Hi, anyone know of any good screen recording software for Linux?
        I've seen one weird one that takes X screen shots and strings them
        \_ Do you need motion or just stills? xwd is standard for stills.
2004/1/11 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11750 Activity:nil
1/10    FYI: for those of you running linux boxes with a lot of remote users:
        boxes aregetting rooted right and left beause of this "dobrk" bug.
        the crackers are using snifferes and webs of trust to really increase
        the scope of the breakins, so it's probably worth trimming back the
        remote access as much as you can and worth applying either the patch
        to the running kernel or upgrade. this is going to cost some people a
        lot of money. --psb
        \_ anyone with such a system who hasn't upgraded by now deserves
           to get hacked.
           \- well my point is that local exploits come out "everyday".
              this one really matters. some of us are forced to use
              linux and have other things to do than installing RPMs.
              a lot of people i know are also delaying fixing linux boxes
              as they are waiting to deal with RH licensing issues. this
              is really risky in university type environments right now.--psb
           \_ no.  the real answer is anyone who runs such a shitty OS and
              allows public access to it guarantees they'll get hacked.  any
              system, such as linux or windows, that requires such an intense
              level of handholding babying isn't ready for prime time in a
              hostile environment and especially not on the public net.
              \_ you forgot to sarcastically use "37337 5pEEk" and to imply
                 that all Linux users are 12.
        \_ I got hit by this over Thanksgiving and it was a pain. Some
           dumb kid leaves his Linux box open on campus, the hacker uses
           ettercap to get some passwords, a professor connects remotely
           to my site and it is downhill from there. Damage wasn't bad for
           me, but do go get the latest kernel and stop running SSH 1.0.
           The latest kernel fixes mremap() also.
2004/1/7-8 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11696 Activity:moderate
1/6     For those who listen to NPR via the web.  Is there anyway I can
        download the streaming programs into an  independent file so I can
        transfer them on my Palm PDA and listen to it while I commute?
        All their audio links are embedded in some sort of javascript
        which makes "save the link as" impossible.  Thanks in advance.
        \_ Have you considered getting an FM radio?  In the Bay Area, you
           can listen to 88.5 FM.
        \_ Yes.  Isn't commuting bad enough?  You want to listen to NPR, too?
           Will you also dig ditches and shovel shit?
        \_ Total Recorder will do this. I have a friend who has CDs of This
        American Life that he rips from the website.
           \_ Total Recorder only runs on Windows.  I found an open source
              program called StreamRipper which can rip ShoutCast or
              IceCast to mp3, but it doesn't rip RealAudio.  Does anyone
              know of a RealAudio ripper which works on LINUX/FREEBSD? - !op
              \_ Are you nuts?  The .ra format is copyright.  To create a
                 'free' version would be a copyright violation.  Copyright
                 law is the *only* thing upon which the GPL is based.  If
                 you go around violating copyright laws willy nilly then you
                 should also be ok when linux and other gpl'd code is stolen
                 by corporations and used without releasing source.  What
                 you're asking for is morally wrong and legally insane for
                 any pro-gpl advocate.
                 \_ Just because the real-audio format is copyrighted doesn't
                    mean I can't build a device which can decode and play it
                    back. It will, however, probably violate some sort of
                    patent. Since software patents aren't upheld by other
                    countries it probably wouldn't violate the GPL, at
                    least not internationally. Technically speaking,
                    decoding a format isn't copying the format, it's
                    violating the copyright of the content, and because
                    it's content, one could argue fair-use.
                    \_ One could argue the moon is made of cheese and twist
                       in the wind while splitting hairs.  One would still be
                       a hypocrite.  One could make the case that the GPL is
                       unlawful and therefore using Linux source code in
                       closed products without releasing said source is
                       therefore technically "ok".  One would be wrong on
                       that as well.  One can not have one's cake and eat
                       it too.
                 \_ You can't copyright a format.
                    \_ But USPTO will give you a patent.
                    \_ Yes, you can.  And they are.  And it's still theft.
                       And you're still hurting the GPL and a hypocrite if
                       you do so.  No different than any software pirate.
2003/12/21-22 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11553 Activity:nil
12/20   Any experience with serverbeach or rackforce dedicated Debian servers?
2003/12/19-21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11543 Activity:low
12/19   screen help request.  After a few days(3-20?), my screen just goes
        to shit.  Tab's don't indent right, editing anything requiring
        left-right placement, cursor movement, or backspace  becomes hell
        (editor, emacs).  Any idea why? If I kill the screen, then restart
        it, everything's fine again.  -nivra
        \_ what screen version, os?
           \_ Screen version 3.09.08 (FAU) 1-Sep-00
              Linux 2.4.2-2 #1 Sun Apr 8 20:41:30 EDT 2001 i686
              \_ ever considered upgrading?
                 \_ Linux never goes down.  It's rock solid, no upgrades reqd.
                    \_ you're an idiot. anyway, i was talking about screen.
                       and even if you don't have root, given your old ass
                       kernel, that shouldn't be a problem...
                       \_ Are you the same guy who thought the guy who said
                          that Reagan created AIDS was serious?
                       \_ the server is a company server, so no os upgrade
                          possibilities.  I guess I could try moving to
                          screen 4, locally as long as it works with the old
                          linux kernel.  -nivra
                       \_ Kids these days, no sense of humor.
                       \_ Linux rules!  You asked above "what screen version,
                          os?" so yes you were talking about the os or you
                          wouldn't have asked that, dumbass.  RULEZ!@
2003/12/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11497 Activity:nil
12/17   I'm setting up a co-located server and just found out RedHat 9.0
        will be "end of life"d in April... will this be a problem/
        inconvenience? make more sense to go w/ debian instead? thanks
        \_ Not really.  Do you plan to upgrade to the kernel of the week or
           just run a stable system?
           \_ I think they'll stop releasing security updates after April, so
              that may be a problem.
        \_ consider Fedora
        \_ run debian. keep up to date.
           \_ run gentoo, and keep more up to date. debian stable is, imho,
              ridiculously out of date.
              \_ In order to keep a gentoo based system up to date, it'll
                 have to spend most of its lifetime compiling and recompiling.
                 And I've seen very little performance boost.  You can always
                 run debian unstable or testing, or add apt sources to backports
                 for stable for newer packages.
                 - former gentoo user, now a debian fan-boy
                 \_ i use both debian and gentoo. debian's package system seems
                    rather more convoluted, and running unstable is umm, unstable,
                    while running testing is not so great for stability either.
                    anyway, if you have a decently fast machine, recompiling is
                    no problem, unless you're the kinda guy who must have every
                    single package offered, and keep every single one up to date.
                 \_ aren't stability and newness opposites?
                    \_ no.
2003/12/17 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:11496 Activity:moderate
12/17   Does anyone know why XP seems to run certain programs that consume
        lots of RAM at full speed right after a reboot, but significantly
        slower after a lot of uptime?  And don't just tell me "obUseLinux,"
        I would if I could, but Cubase doesn't run under Linux.  I'll also
        add that there doesn't seem to be any difference in page file usage
        between "slow runs" and "fast runs."
        \_ Sounds like your app is just allocating more over time (mem leak?)
           or else having to swap stuff back in.
           \_ No visible memory leak that I can discern, but then the tools
              that M$ gives you to evaluate performance are pretty
              rudimentary and I wouldn't be at all surprised if stuff is
              slipping through the cracks.
              \_ memory fragmentation might be an issue too
        \_ If it doesn't run on Linux, it isn't worth running.  Get a new app!
           \_ *laugh*  So can you suggest a MIDI/audio sequencer that does
              low latency audio and runs all the latest and greatest virtual
              instrument plugins in Linux?  Oh wait, you mean there's no such
              product?  Oh darn.  Oh well.  Guess I'll just have to give up on
              making music then, because LINUX IS THE STANDARD!
                \_ obGetAMacRunningOSX.
                   \_ Nah.  Why drop 3 grand on a Mac when I could spending
                      that money on new plugins and gear, and even a cheap
                      new PC to run stuff on?
                        \_ You don't need a $3k Mac to do MIDI stuff. Even
                           a $1k 1GHz G4 can handle that sort of thing.
        \_ Run netstat -an to check if your PC's been hijacked.
2003/12/9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11362 Activity:nil
12/8    I'm not sure exactly what this is related to, but I've found the
        following weird (to me) behavior on my debian linux system:
        I start an rxvt from my icewm toolbar, and then run some other
        application Y in the rxvt. For some Y's, Y will be niced to 5,
        or at least so says 'ps -lu me' (where me is my login). This seems
        to happen for Y that have "poll" under the WCHAN column. This isn't
        exactly a critical issue, but I'm curious as to what's going on, so
        if anyone has any reasonable ideas, I'd like to hear them. Thanks.
2003/11/29-12/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:11265 Activity:nil
11/29   What linux command shows the current RW or RO status of a partition.
        on my debian server, mount shows these same partitions as the same:
        /dev/hda2 on /home type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
        /dev/hda3 on /sto type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
        but /dev/hda3 has some disk error and is now read only. thanks.
2003/11/19-20 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11139 Activity:nil
11/19   About my debian dpkg/apt-get question from yesterday.
        I found the answer: deslect update
        \_ why of course!  as soon as my macos and windows boxes get deselect
           i'll have caught up to the beauty that is managing linux today!
            \_ managing windows: reboot, reinstall, reformat
               \_ i've never reinstalled or reformatted my original win2k
                  install.  yes, it has been rebooted many many times but so
                  has your linux box with the kernel of the week.
2003/11/19 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:11130 Activity:nil
11/17   I have two linux boxes running debian. their sources.list files
        are identical. on one box, I can get the kernel-image-2.4.20*
        but the other I cant.   dpkg -l "*kernel-image-2.4.2*"  :
        1) No packages found matching *kernel-image-2.4.2*.
        2) ii  kernel-image-2.4.20 2.4.20-9  Linux kernel image for version ..
           ii  kernel-image-2.4.21 2.4.21-4  Linux kernel image for version ..
        What could cause this?
        \_ dunno, this never happens on my windows or mac.
           \_ Neither does this, uptime:  up 300 days, 20:11, 230 users
              \_ soda doesn't exactly do all that much hard labor though.
                 \_ heh.  nice attempt at a troll.
                    \_ but it's true. what do people do on soda? read/write
                       some mail, nuke motd, blather on wall, maybe edit
                       some webpages. bfd. it's not like someone's been
                       compiling massive software, running mozilla, or
                       handling huge amounts of traffic all day for 300 days.
                       what's the load average? 0.39, 0.45, 0.40? psh.
                    \_ I wasn't attempting to troll.  It's the truth.  Both
                       windows and macs don't have that problem.  When you
                       nerdlings write a system normal people can use, let us
                       know.  You're also really dimwitted if you think a
                       freebsd based Mac can't run for 300+ days.  Most windows
                       boxes can't but that's because people run as admin and
                       install every stupid web toy they see.
           \_ How much you paid for your windows or mac OS again? or you
              \_ Some came with systems so my effective cost is about $50.
                 Some were pirated.
        \_ I had to run this command. Never had to do this before.
           dpkg --update-avail /var/lib/apt/lists/\
           Shouldnt' apt-get update do this?  Any ideas what's broken? -op
           \_ Hey, that's intuitive!  Go linux!
2003/11/19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11127 Activity:kinda low
11/18   I'm using Emacs 21.X.X and it's complaining the following: "Error in
        init file: Symbol's function definition is void: hilit-translate"
        What is wrong?
        \_ exactly what it's saying maybe? i've not been impressed with
           the default redhat 9 install. one should really customize their
           own .emacs anyway.
        \_ 21.X.X?  Yeesh.  Kids today.  Back in the day we had emacs 17.x.
           We didn't have the E or the X.X.  We had to have one lousy .x and
           be happy with it.
           \_ Back in the days I used jove.  -- !OP
              \_ hah!  I still use jove!  If jove isn't installed, a unix
                 system isn't complete.
              \_ obREALMENUSEED!
2003/11/15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:11087 Activity:nil
11/15   Linux Back Door Attempt (sorry if this is old news):
        \_ It is.
2003/11/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10981 Activity:nil
11/7    I've got a redhat 9 firewall question.  I've *never* used the fw stuff
        on linux so please help a total newbie.  The right man pages or the
        straight answer are both good.  I've got a freshly installed RH9 box
        and I want to block everything except incoming port 22 and some other
        random ports but only for a certain set of IPs on the same subnet.
        How do I do that?  Thanks!
        \_ C'mon, I can't believe no one here can help me get a start with
           firewall configuration on redhat.  -op
        \_ This is the best doc on ipchains. There are other ways to
           firewall the box, but this is the most secure way:
           \_ THANK YOU SO MUCH!!  -op
2003/11/7 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10973 Activity:nil
11/6    I have 1024MB of RAM in my debian linux server, but free, top and
        /proc/meminfo all report only Mem: 901392. Why?  I'm running the
        2.4.18-k7 debian kernel, an Asus A7v8x + Athlon 2000MHz processor.
        \_ in redhat and lilo i have to put a line like "mem = 1024M"
           to recognize more than a gig of RAM but that might not
           be your problem. - danh
           \_ I tried this line in lilo.conf, still doesn't see all the ram:
        \_ What do you have your AGP aperature set to?  My understanding is
           that ify  our video card wants memory for textures, it takes
           the memory off the top.  I could be wrong :-)
        \_ Are you counting the fs cache in your 901392?
2003/11/5-6 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10943 Activity:nil
11/4    OS question.  normal Linux requires a partitioin for its swap files.
        Why, and where is such restriction exists?  Is it has something to do
        with the kernel?  I recently stump into this thing called Knoppix
        Linux, which can be run on a CD without ever being installed.
        Obviously it doesn't use a seperate partition for virtual memory
        because by default, it mount all other HD read only.  Now
        I am absolutely confused.  Any ideas? pointers?
        \_ Not sure, but I noticed that the first two days I ran knoppix last
           week, I had to reboot my computer the next morning... it doesn't
           do that anymore. maybe there is no VM?
           First google shows that it will mount any linux swap partitions
           that you have, unless you specify otherwise.
        \_ Linux does not require a swap partition. It doesn't require any
           swap whatsoever. (at least not debian or slackware) Nothing to
           do with the kernel. Also, you have the option of using a swap
           file if you don't have enough physical RAM.
2003/11/4 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29607 Activity:nil
11/3 banner picture
2003/11/3 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10911 Activity:nil
11/2    From Eric S. Raymond's website:

        As an American and native English-speaker myself, I have previously
        been reluctant to suggest this, lest it be taken as a sort of cultural
        imperialism. But several native speakers of other languages have
        urged me to point out that English is the working language of the
        hacker culture and the Internet, and that you will need to know it to
        function in the hacker community.

        This is very true. Back around 1991 I learned that many hackers who
        have English as a second language use it in technical discussions even
        when they share a birth tongue; it was reported to me at the time that
        English has a richer technical vocabulary than any other language and
        is therefore simply a better tool for the job. For similar reasons,
        translations of technical books written in English are often
        unsatisfactory (when they get done at all).

        Linus Torvalds, a Finn, comments his code in English (it apparently
        never occurred to him to do otherwise). His fluency in English has
        been an important factor in his ability to recruit a worldwide
        community of developers for Linux. It's an example worth following.
        \_ Ok, I think most of us knew this but even if not, what's your
           point?  Was this supposed to be educational?  Upsetting?  Bait?
           I'm willing to play along, I just need to know my role.  Thanks.
           \_ I'm just sick of people posting to the motd in broken English,
              and then bitching when people call them on it.  See below.
              \_ you know, if you are critical of ALL grammatically incorrect
                 post on motd, I wouldn't bitch as much.  Yet, you, like good
                 number of others, selectively tolerate one form of
                 grammatic error, while critical and censoring another.
                 If you think my grammatic error is somewhat inferior than
                 those improper English posted by the native speaker or
                 European decent, then, please go fuck yourself.
                 \_ You know why it pisses me off?  I'll tell you.  It's
                    because I work with fuckers like you.  I've worked with
                    plenty of people who can come straight over from PRC
                    and speak and write clear, understandable, if slightly
                    stilted English and can always get their point accross.
                    Then there are people who no matter how long they're here,
                    their English is always not just bad, but actually a
                    danger to those around them.  When you're working
                    with things that can kill you, you don't want to wonder
                    wether the guy next to you is going to be able to
                    communicate in any useful way or not.  I have learned
                    by dealing with fucktards like you that the *reason* that
                    some poeple in engineering are like this is not that
                         \_ people (learn to spell you moron)
                            \_ Ooh, the previous poster writes a 290 word
                               diatribe, makes a typo in "people" once out of
                               four times, and you call him out on it.
                               Congratulations.  Oh, and it's "Learn to spell,
                               you moron."
                    they are from one country from another or that they are
                    dumb.  It is an arrogance that infects the culture of
                    engineering like a cancer.  That arrogance assumes that
                    if you are good at book learning you don't have to be
                    able to communicate.  These people are always second rate
                    engineers anyway, because their work is no good to anyone
                    if they can't communicate.  Every nation in the world
                    has jackasses like this, including of course, the US.  The
                    difference is that fuckers like this who are from other
                    countries are just easier to spot and pose a bigger physical
                    danger in an emergency.  And yes, I can speak Mandarin
                    better than your English, and no, I'm not Chinese.
                    You can cry "racism"! all you like here, but when you go
                    back to China and don't ever get promoted because of your
                    shitty communication skills, don't blame Cal.  At least
                    one of us tried to straighten your dumb ass out.
                        \_ I work with people from China, Russia, Korea, and
                           Vietnam all day - but the worst English writing
                           comes from the American-born-and-educated "native"
                           speakers in our group.
                           \_ Nope.  I work with people from China, Russia, and
                              Vietnam, and they can barely communicate.  It
                              drives me nuts.
                 \_ Dude... I am not the original poster, but I have this to
                    say.  Yours is the most borken English ever heard around
                    here.  Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia, you top them all.
                    You, sir, are the king of mean-spirited linguistic
                 \_ The world isn't black and white.  There are degress.  Also,
                    this is a casual social hangout, not the classroom.  Thus,
                    common usage English is appropriate, whereas broken ESL
                    English is not.  Lah!
                    \_ Your use of "lah" is improper as per the Singlish
                       standard.  Please lah, try not to use "lah" if you
                       don't know how to use it.  It breaks my heart to see
                       a beautiful thing like "lah" improperly used.
                       \_ LAH! I've played online games for years with all the
                          .sg boys and I know the standard: LAH! can and should
                          be used at all times.  Any sentence that doesn't
                          contain at least 1 random usage of LAH! is
                          non-standard and subject to ridicule, LAH!
                          \_ All I can say is that you are wrong, and
                             your language learning fu is weak.  "Lah"
                             needs to have proper placement within a
                             sentence, and it doesn't work in all
2003/10/30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Startup] UID:29601 Activity:nil
10/30   Can you smell the IPOs?  IBM's "Prodigy" Linux commercial:
        \_ the kid looks like eminem
        \_ Hate marketers.  hate 'em.
2003/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10880 Activity:nil
10/30   I have a tarfile of some pretty hilarious exploits a friend of
        mine obtained through a honeypot running on port 23 of a Linux
        box.  Anyone interested?  -John
        \_ sure.
2003/10/24-25 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10776 Activity:nil
10/24   redhat 9 is the best unix -
        \_ I don't know what to say.
        \_ [formatd]
        \_ umm... NOT work safe
           \_ it would be if she was wearing WholesomeWear:
              \_ of course if people actually used swimsuits to go
                 *swimming* instead of lounging around like idiots
                 getting skin cancer and staring at eachother....oh, just
              \_ Jesus fucking Christ.
              \_ She's a man
                 \_ Flintstone?
        \_ that looks... unhealthy...
        \_ her back must _ache_ at the end of the day.
           \_ provided she's ever off of lying on her back.
              \_ she probably makes a ton of money from fetishists.
        \_ There should be something illegal about that.
        \_ Linux is awesome.
2003/10/21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29581 Activity:nil 80%like:10706
10/20   Any recommendations for colocation or dedicated server with debian?
        \_ I always wondered why people care what distro they're using for
           a server system.  What's the difference?  A server is a platform
           for remote applications.  It shouldn't matter what directory layout
           exists below the application layer.
           \_ heh, as if.
              \_ no, really, I mean it.  it shouldn't matter.
           \_ okay what about a dedicated server recommendation with
              Any BSD or Slackware, Suse, or Debian Linux? Thanks -op.
        \_ Check
2003/10/20 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10706 Activity:nil 80%like:29581
10/20   Any recommendations for colocation or dedicated hosting with debian?
        \_ I always wondered why people care what distro they're using for
           a server system.  What's the difference?  A server is a platform
           for remote applications.  It shouldn't matter what directory layout
           exists below the application layer.
           \_ heh, as if.
        \_ Check
2003/10/18 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29578 Activity:nil
10/17   I just installed redhat 9 on an old machine, and it loads web pages
        very slowly. Mainly, it seems like it takes a long time to establish
        a connection with a server. But it has a pretty high transfer rate
        when downloading, and nslookups come back quickly, so I don't know why
        that should take so long. Any ideas?
2003/10/9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10542 Activity:nil
10/8    Why does imagemagick on linux take SO MUCH longer than MS paint
        to resize a picture?
        \_ Define "SO MUCH longer".  Have you timed how long it takes to launch
           paint, load a file, resize, and close?  Are you resizing jpegs?  Then
           remember that you're loading, decoding, resizing, encoding, saving.
        \_ I also believe ImageMagick defaults to using bilinear interpolation
            which results in a much nicer looking elargement than the naM-ove
2003/10/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:10530 Activity:low
10/7    Anybody know of a free solids-modeling application for Linux?
        \_ you can try poop. either your own, or someone else's if they're
           willing to donate it. best when not too wet, but not too dry.
           and the best part is it's totally free and cross-platform.
           \_ of course if poop were really a Linux application, there
              would now follow a two page flame war about dog poop vs.
              horse poop.
2003/9/25-26 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:10326 Activity:nil
9/25    SCO's creative Linux family tree:
        or also
        \_ But who are the evil UNIX engineers who helped create this diagram?
           \_ Evil?  What if it's true?  How would *you* know if it isn't?  Did
              Slashdot tell you so?
2003/8/30-9/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29519 Activity:low 55%like:10020
        2.4.22 kernel, but would prefer to do it the "debian way".
        \_ From my experience, it takes very long, often several months.
           It took them months to release a fix for the recent Linux priocntl
           security problem.  I suggest to compile your own kernel if you really
           need 2.4.22.  You can also still do it the "debian way". There are
           some helper packages that provide utilities to package the kernels
           you build into deb packages but I don't remember the name of this
           utility anymore..
           \_ thanks!
2003/8/30-9/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10020 Activity:nil 55%like:29519
8/30    How long does it usually take debian to release a new kernel-image or
        kernel-source package once a new kernel is released? I'd like the
        2.4.22 kernel, but would prefer to do it the "debian way".
        \_ From my experience, it takes very long, often several months.
           It took them months to release a fix for the recent Linux priocntl
           security problem.  I suggest to compile your own kernel if you really
           need 2.4.22.  You can also still do it the "debian way". There are
           some helper packages that provide utilities to package the kernels
           you build into deb packages but I don't remember the name of this
           utility anymore..
           \_ thanks!
2003/8/28-29 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:29505 Activity:high
8/28    Followup on a previous post about network transfer of large files
        and checksums:  I have compared the 2nd download which passed the
        md5sum with the first one which didn't.  They have identical sizes
        but differ in content on about 200 bytes out of about 640MB.  Is
        there a way to estimate the likelihood that this is the result of bad
        transmission or a malicious substitution?  I am asking both for
        theoretical curiousity and practical interest.  So besides some
        high brow math. argument, is there some obvious indication like
        whether the differences are concentrated, continuous, etc to check?
        \_ Mount the iso file (assuming it's on a linux box) and poke around.
           mount -o loop -t iso9660 filename.iso /mnt/tmp
           \- yes there is a way to guess whether it is random or malicious
              depending on what the contents are [probably], but it is a lot
              of work, so i wouldnt bother. 200bytes is a hell of a lot.
              that is a little strange. my guess is linux -> ass. --psb
        \_ Have you determined what the differences are?
           \_ All I did was was comparing the two images byte by byte with
              a simple c program.  Of course one could recursively look into
              each volumes, and to be comprensive one has to look at
              the partition map, catalog file, and auxillary partitions.
              But as the posters above wrote, it is way TOO MUCH work for a
              mild curiosity.  I was asking if some statistical/probabilistic
              analysis is possible (in theory) and some rule-of-thumb
              available exists in practice.  The transport was thru ftp, btw.
              \- tcp checksum is not going to miss 200bytes in a <1gig xfer.
                 what you should do is do the xfer 100 times [or whatever]
                 and see how many times a strong checksum fails. if you do
                 that, i'd appreciate it if you would send me the info.
                 linux has a history of flailing on large data. --psb
                 \_ I transfer 8GB disk images and 600MB iso's between
                    my linux boxes. I've never had any problems. what do
                    you mean linux "flailing on large data"?
        \_ I throw around 2 terabytes of data with linux every other day
           and I haven't noticed any data loss yet but I have not
           conducted an exhaustive statistical study. - danh
           \- do you guys actually check the data or do you cross your
              fingers? obviously if you dont look, you wont find.
              also it may not manifest itself withing a certain range
              of behavior/configurations.
              anyway, first hand, i have had linux system writing
              corrupted packets on the the net [went away when ethernet
              driver was changed]. when we changed various things in
              bpf and syskonnect ethernet driver fleebsd was fine
              with our hacks, linux occasionally had issues (we didnt do
              too much research on what the problem was ... we just abandoned
              it ... and the problems seem to in part go away when we had
              faster processors and faster disk bus). i dont remember which
              file system it was, but one of them lost us some data and it
              didnt appear to be a hardware problem [was a while ago also...
              lately i havent been looking but havent casually noticed
              data loss at fs level]. i dont need to say anything about
              linux nfs server. admittedly these are rare, but they are
              in areas you expect perfection. a bigger problem is just
              general "weird behavior" under load [or sometimes even
              not under load]. linux does too many short cut things for
              "typical case" speed hacks. this can lead to your being out
              to sea when something goes wrong [e.g. when you look at a
              solaris crash dump, you have much better info than trying
              to figure out what happened in the linux case. this might
              partly be my better knowledge of solaris but in some cases
              the relevant info about the thread state, locks, watchdogs
              simply were not there] and also the system behavior often is
              sort of unusual under load [e.g. low free memory + high io,
              compared to FreeBSD and solaris (although when various large
              changes were made in solaris kernel algorithms for short
              periods i did see some performace issues)]. finally i dont like
              the way the memory-file system subsystem has been evolving.
              recently seen some problems in work environments with lots of
              (tcp) connections ... you get weird hangs on clients when the
              server drops packets ... admittedly this might have been fixable
              by throwing hardware at the problem or tweaking various para-
              meters (and this was on some HPC enviornments were we could not
              compare against solaris/bsd).
              YMWTGF: andrew hume HotOS linux suspect   --psb
              \_ Our answer was much simpler than yours.  After too many
                 lost files, NFS problems, dropped packets, etc, etc, we
                 simply stopped using Linux because it sucks.  We didn't
                 have the time to get into this driver vs that driver or
                 what kernel patch might have helped or which NIC, etc.
                 Linux = not ready for enterprise = out the fucking window.
                 Staff time is more expensive than the value of possibly
                 finding a solution to kludge Linux into working.  The
                 moment we switched to real OS's our problems just magically
                 went away without hiring a team of Linux kernel developers.
                 Linux is cute but their development philosophy precludes
                 it's use in enterprise environments.  Just FYI, I'm tossing
                 around 20-30TB/month between various hosts.
                 \_ Which OS did you switch to?  FreeBSD?  Solaris?
                 \_ Yeah, especially now that Sun sells the X1 for under $1k.
        \_ I should have added: The system from which I run the ftp was
           OS X, which is a (free)bsd derivative.  And I also noticed that
           the bad download had wrong modification time.  It was set to be
           the day of the download, even though I have "preserve" on.
2003/8/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29477 Activity:high
8/26    On a redhat linux box, which gets hit first .forward or .procmailrc ?
        \_ depends on whether you use procmail as your LDA.
            \_ assumin i am then the .procmailrc gets hit first, yes?
               (otherwise i have to .forward to the .procmailrc)?
            \_ It does?  I'm pretty sure .forward will always get hit first.
        \_ It's linux.  It depends.  That's why you've got 3 different answers
           from three different people.  obUseRealOS.
           \_ You're an idiot.  "It depends" on any Unix.  -tom
2003/8/21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29421 Activity:high
8/20    I'm trying to setup my debian linux server to accept dial-in PPP
        connections from my Linux laptop and a win98 machine that is out of
        town. I'm already running mgetty as a fax and text-login server.
        What's the best method for making connections easy for both the
        windows and (debian) linux boxes?  There's CHAP and PAP, and I'm
        not sure which (if either) to pursue.  Has anybody here done this
        and can point me in the right direction? Also, which kernel modules
        do I need to load? The laptop runs the 2.4.18-686 kernel, and the
        server runs the 2.4.20-3-686 kernel. Thanks..
        \_ that stuff sounds boring. go to the beach.
        \_ with so many self proclaimed LINUX USING! nerdlings around here I
           thought this would have been answered already.  guess talking about
           it is a lot different than knowing anything about it.
2003/8/19 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/SCO] UID:29390 Activity:high
8/19    If SCO's UNIX code is already in the Linux Kernel source, why don't
        they just show everybody the relevant parts of their code? If it
        was just pasted in, then their code is no longer secret, and should
        be identical to the Linux code. Why the NDA?
        \_ because they're full of shit and they know it but
           they want to drag this out as long as possible and cause
           as much damage in the minds of IT people and programming
           managers as possible, as per their instructions from their
           not so secret corporate masters in Redmond.  assholes.
           \_ Will the evil assholes buy SCO?
           \_ So this is all a MS plot?  Uhm, yeah.  Idiot.
        \_ Probably because the instant they reveal it, coders will modify
           the source within the next hour, hence no more SCO code in Linux,
           hence they can't charge $199-$699 per copy of Linux.
        \_ SCO was going broke, then the new CEO came along.  He's like,
           "Whoa, we own rights to selling Unix(TM) licenses.  Unix(TM)!!
           Doesn't everyone use that?"  SCO tries to make IBM pay more.  IBM
           said, "We're moving everything to Linux, and it's free."  SCO:
           "You sure you didn't move Unix(TM) proprietary source code into
           Linux?"  IBM:  "No, and if we did, show us, and we'll fix it."
           SCO:  "We'll get back to you."

           A consultant for SCO says, "You know, they aren't too careful
           about the Linux source.  There's a lot of code, down to the
           comment level, taken from Unix(TM)."  SCO CEO says, "Whoa!  Linux
           has Unix(TM)-proprietary source code!  We got a case!"  This
           doesn't seem that evil to me.
           \_ the press releases and public statements from SCO remind
              me a lot of the ramblings of est followers. - danh
              \_ I thought it was "este".
           \_ On second thought, not revealing the problem source code is
              evil. -op of "SCO was going broke ..."
              \_ Damn right! Bwahaha! Why work when you can be Evil? And
                 even better, sell your insider stock on the bump for being
                 Evil and then act suprised when your lawsuit tanks and sucks
                 down the shell company with it. Evil works!
              \_ Why is it evil?  If they publish it and someone replaces it
                 all then it only confuses the issues further and it doesn't
                 relieve anyone of any legal guilt for prior actions anyway.
                 \_ To bring an infringement case against someone you have to
                    make an effort to limit the damages... which means telling
                    the accused party what your claims are.  If you move
                    straight into a lawsuit it shows you're only after money or
           \_ IBM/Linus's assimilating Unix(TM) source code is more
              believably accidental than willful.  To me at least, SCO can't
              ask people to pay for Unix(TM) licenses because the Linux
              source base accidentally includes Unix(TM) source code.  They
              can't do it without first telling them which part has been
              copied.  After identifying the problem code, SCO can also show
              how Unix(TM) didn't itself borrow the code from BSD or another
              free source. -op of "SCO was going broke ..."
              \_ Your opinions and feelings are nice and all but that's not
                 how the law works.  The law says you have to be responsible
                 and take responsibility for your actions.  The law doesn't
                 say you're required to spend your own time and energy helping
                 everyone not infringe on your property they've been using for
                 years and get nothing in return.
                 \_ troll
        \_ What's more evil? Stealing UNIX code to profit from it or to sue
           over your rights to UNIX code and profit?
           \_ If there is UNIX code in Linux, it will be removed.
2003/8/13-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29340 Activity:high
8/14    Running RedHat 7.3 on a pc.  Everytime i try to change anything with
        \_ are you running a kernel you compiled yourself or
           the default kernel that comes with redhat?
        ifconfig i get a msg. "SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address"
        However, whatever i'm trying to do always works.  Should i be worried?
        \_ What's your exact commandline?
           \_ the last one was "ifconfig eth0:1 down 0"
               \_ I get the same errors running that command in Debian.
                  What exactly are trying to do? like "ifdown eth0"?
               \_ what's with the 0?  try just "ifconfig eth0:1 down"
                   \_ buh, maybe it is a solaris thing i picked up (and can't
                      put down)  but i don't recall it giving me probs before.
                      \_ It's not a solaris thing.  --solaris guy
2003/8/12-13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:29323 Activity:kinda low
8/11    How does one determine which debian CD a specific package is on.
        I've searced google and debian, and can't find out where to look.
        \_ No reason to.  You use CD1 to install, and then net to grab the
           rest.  If you don't have net, put the package on a CD or on a
           floppy, and use dpkg to install.
           \_ Well, actually I DO have a reason:  I've installed debian
              (via my net) for somebody who doesn't have good net, and I
              want him to have the option to easily install more packages
              from CD in the future, as needed. I would like to know which
              CD's contain which packages, so that I can possibly rule out
              downloading all 7 CD's with jigdo.
        \_ I guess you could install your own system packages with
           apt-get install package --download so you save the debs
           and then burn those to cd
        \_ 'the .jigdo file for a CD contains a list of all packages that
           are on the CD. The files are compressed with gzip, so use
           "zcat somefile.jigdo | less" or similar to view them.'
2003/8/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29314 Activity:very high
8/11    Come on Georgy - give us your Motd Campaign Speech
        \_ No, please don't.  You should save your energy for the big race!
        \_ /home/sequent/georgy/.hushlogin - no motd love from georgy
           \_ I do that too but I'm active.  Who wants the 30+ page motd to
              scroll by on every login?
        \_ I don't know, I may vote for her, but for you diehard CSUA'ers,
           doesn't this look like M$ Windows on a Dell?!?:
           \_ Notice the _Running Linux_ book?
                \_ you mean the Unix book, she even knows linux is dead
                   \_ LINUX IS DYING!
                      \_ More and more each day.  The courts take even
                         longer to decide things than the Senate.  We must
                         do something quickly to stop SCO.
                         \_ D00de!  L3tz hax0r there s3rv3rz!11  You're not
                            going to do a god damned thing about it and neither
                            is any other unwashed linux geek.  The courts will
                            continue to grind away.  Companies will continue to
                            install and develop on linux.  Life will go on.  It
                            is unfortunate that SCO doesn't stand a chance of
                            putting linux into a grave in corporate America
                            because there are certainly better OS's for the
                            enterprise environment which are freer and more
                            stable without the unwashed hype.
                            \_ You just got trolled by a TPM quote.
                               Do you feel dirty?
                               \_ TPM?  I don't even know who TPM is so a TPM
                                  quote means nothing to me.  No, I don't.  I
                                  deal with stupid people everyday so yet
                                  another stupid person, quote or not, doesn't
                                  bother me at all.
                                  \_ "Our people are dying, Senator!"
                                     \_ Uh huh.
                                        \_ lol!
2003/7/15-16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW] UID:29049 Activity:nil
7/15    What's with people signing posts as -op? Being anonymous on the motd
        really takes away from that community feeling and reduces the motd to
        yet another web B-board. Do people really have good reason to hide
        their identity when asking digital camera questions?
        \_ Sign your post, you hypocrite!
        \_ People who don't sign their posts are lame.  -John
           \_ Thanks for registering your opinion.
        \_ With all the "personalities" in my work, social, and net lives,
           it's nice to be able to keep a low profile where I can.
        \_ If you want community feeling, go find a community.  This is nothing
           more than a world writable file on a closed computer system.  It is
           not a community.  Stop pretending it is.  Examples of real
           communities: church, tennis club, running club, biking club, even
           the linux users groups count.  The motd does not.
2003/7/13 [Computer/SW/Editors, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:29018 Activity:moderate
7/12    In Linux, what's the best way to get info on a partition:
        whether or not it is formatted, etc? (thanks editor)
        \_ prompt# dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/xxxx count=99999999 bs=1024k
           replace "xxxx" with your hard drive device name.
           \_ wow it's the linux comedian!  i hope flies shoot
              out of your penix, ok tnx.
           \_ you are terrible. the count and bs are unnecssary.
        \_ Is this asb?
2003/6/27 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28849 Activity:high
6/26    This command is hanging on my RH linux box:
        ping -c 1 -t 1
        It doesn't hang from here on timeout.   What should i do?
        \_ you are setting your TTL to 1 hop? why would you do that?
           you are basically saying "if you have to go through more than
           1 router, die.." and im sure yahoo is at least 5 hops away.
           -t is in hops, not seconds.. read the man page.
           \_ Wrong answer.  -t is timeout.  -T is ttl.  He almost certainly
              has a problem with his resolver.  Check /etc/resolv.conf and
              make sure your nameservers are working properly. --scotsman
           \_ The man page says " -t ttl Set the IP Time to Live."
              That's *IT*, though I don't really care.  I'd be happy to be
              saying what you are saying above.  It still shouldn't
              HANG.  It doesn't if you do it from here and it doesn't if I
              do it from my other linux box (diff network).  The question
              is:  WHY IS IT HANGING? (this is related to a bunch of hanging
              pings i get from my network test that run without the -t flag)
              Normal pings work the vast majority of the time.   (haven't
              got one to fail for me manually, just 8/1440 in the cronjob)
2003/6/20 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28780 Activity:high
6/20    What's a good mpeg/avi/etc viewer for Linux?
        \_ "apt-get install mplayer" and then... watch your pirated
           full-length movies and pornography
           \_ no way, it's strictly for viewing movie based game demos!
2003/6/19 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28766 Activity:nil
6/18    Motorola's Linux Smartphone:
        What is the advantage of running Linux as a cellphone platform
        (as a geek user)?  I mean, is it mean that i can in theory
        compile my regular linux program and run it there?
        \_ Don't have to pay runtime royalties for a free OS.
           \_ err... original question asked the advantage as a computer
              geek user, not manufacture
        \_ absolutely none.  no more than if your toaster or dish washer ran
           linux.  however if your BIKE! ran LINUX! then you'd be in nerdling
           nirvana and could die knowing your life was complete.
2003/6/12 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28712 Activity:very high
6/11    The Open Group sues Apple over their use of the word UNIX. Apple claims
        that UNIX is a generic term:
        Are Unix and Linux coming up in the world?
        \_ Rapture! You started another linux vs. freebsd slapfight!
        \_ On a vaguely related note: when did become
           \_ cnet has had forever and a day...  I tried to register
              it about 8 years ago...
              \_ 8 years ago?  you got to the net a little late, eh?
        \_ Unix has been the world since before you had PH#1.  Linux is crap.
           There's only 2 reasons Linux even exists today: AT&T timing and
           price.  It's hard to compete with free crap when the alternatives
           cost so much in bad times.  Beware the Deathstar.
           \_ What is PH#1? Why isn't BSD more "popular" than Linux?
              \_ PH#1: ask yermom.  BSD: Ask AT&T.
              \_ Linux is more popular because of the license, and Linus
                 is pretty good at engineering the open-source effort at
                 the kernel level, preventing linux from forking to various
                 similiar but incompatible variant.  Most people here at
                 motd resent Linux in one way another because BSD could of
                 been what Linux is today.
                 \_ no, we don't like linux because it's the windows of the
                    *nix world and we're tired of rebooting machines, the
                    endless patch/upgrade cycle, the instability, the bugs,
                    the data loss, and the zealotry.  if you wanted to know
                    why people feel a certain way you should just ask, not
                    wrongly assume and then spew like you know.  i have no
                    particular love of bsd because it has roots here.  i don't
                    even prefer it as my #1 production system.  i prefer *not*
                    to use a piece of crap like linux and i've got the night
                    and weekend hours and data loss to explain it without
                    getting emotional and silly like you try to paint it. these
                    are all just operating systems which are very similar. i'm
                    tired of playing with linux toys when there are real
                    tools out there.  no resentment.  linux is just inferior
                    as an operating system.
                 \_ From a coding perspective, linux is a frustrating system
                    to support. Often I've found that kernel modules that
                    compile and load fine on one minor revision of the kernel
                    (2.x.y) won't work on a slightly newer minor revision
                    (2.x.y+2). Usually the cause is something stupid like
                    the renaming of a function/struct or a change in the
                    order of the parameters of a function. Stuff like this
                    doesn't happen on proper systems (Solaris, *BSD, etc).
                    The problems aren't limited to the kernel, glibc and
                    userland are quite frustrating as well. Linux has this
                    tendency to emulate functions and pgms from other
                    systems except that the Linux versions are always
                    "improved" in some way which forces you to add Linux
                    specific code to your pgms with all sorts of #ifdefs
                    for different versions of glibc and so on. This kind
                    of thing doesn't happen on most other systems.
                    I don't mind Linux, I just wish that the people
                    working on it displayed a bit more sanity.
                    \_ you're described the natural consequence of a bunch of
                       monkeys banging away at a keyboard thinking that they're
                       writing an OS.  Open source on a world-wide scale
                       doesn't work.  That's why you see these problems.  The
                       *BSD people don't have this problem because it's more
                       tightly controlled.  Smaller group -> higher quality.
                       \_ LINUX ROCKS!  BSD IS DEAD!
2003/6/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/SCO] UID:28661 Activity:high
6/6     Why is the SCO case a big deal?  If there is indeed copied
        code (which is far from certain), what prevents the linux
        community from re-writing those files?  (Assuming that it is
        only a few files, of course - all unknown still).
        \_ SCO says:  "That's like saying, 'show us the fingerprints on
        \_ SCO won't disclose affected source code w/o an NDA.
           SCO:  "That's like saying, 'show us the fingerprints on
           the gun so you can rub them off.'"
        \_ Because you can't use someone else's IP and then get caught red
           handed and then simply stop using it without penalty.
           \_ True - but this doesn't change the fact that the linux
              source code is out in public, and once the piece that was
              plagarized (if that was truly the case) is known, what is
              to stop the community from replacing it and proceeding as
              \_ you're still ignoring the fact that you can't just say, "oh!
                 we got busted! we'll just change that bit and go on with life!
                 thanks for letting us use your IP for years at your expense!"
              \_ Nothing. But they will claim Linux's success was due in part
                 to their stolen code, therefore they can claim a percentage
                 of past and future earnings from Linux distributors. The
                 analogy is if you stole $1000 and used it to build a very
                 successful business, then you got caught. Does returning the
                 $1000 mean no crime has been committed? Does the victim have
                 any claim to the business?
                 \_ Linux distributors have no earnings.  And the analogy to
                    stealing money is a false one; most copyright cases don't
                    involve monetary damages.  The likely result is a
                    patent cross-signing agreement.  -tom
                    \_ BZZZT!  That's between real companies and this isn't a
                       patent case and what patents would IBM swap for the
                       shitty copyright on some code?  Also, they don't always
                       simply swap patents.  Sometimes it's for real and the
                       thieves owe the IP holders tens or even hundreds of
                       millions of dollars plus are not allowed to use the IP
                       in the future.  The Linux distributors certainly do
                       have earnings.  The analogy to stealing money is
                       exactly correct.  Unlike you, I've actually worked on
                       real patent and copyright cases for real lawyers in
                       real courts in the real world where the 'rules of
                       slashdot' don't apply.
                        \_ did you ACTUALLY work on REAL patents for REAL
                           lawyers?  You may be right about this but it
                           is you racking up the twink points pal.
                        \_ We greatly value your insight, O anonymous
                           coward.  -tom
                           \_ Thank goodness his anonymity completely
                              invalidates anything he has to say.      -mice
                           \_ I'm anonymous and, unlike you, still know wtf
                              I'm talking about.  Patent cross-signing when
                              it's a copyright claim?  Copyright violations
                              don't involve monetary damages?  No earnings at
                              Redhat, IBM, Dell, and other linux distributors?
                              You get a dozen twink points *and* you've again
                              proven that you're a complete idiot.
2003/6/4 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28627 Activity:high
6/2     So why did Anonymous Motd Censor remove the DIY Cruise Missle link?
        \_ No one can truly understand the motives of AMC. Anyway here is the
           \_ thanks for restoring the link.  Now even I am curious and
              want to build a pulsejet myself :p
        \_ Because it had nothing to do with RIDE BIKE! or USE LINUX! of
           course, which are the only topics that are allowed to be of any
           interest to the "Berkeley computer science community".
2003/6/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28602 Activity:very high 75%like:28599
6/1     What are the pros/cons of Red Hat Linux 8 vs. 9?
        \_ 8 and 9 are very similar in terms of versions of the major
           components used (gcc, glibc, kernel, etc). 9 is just slightly newer
           and hopefully has fewer bugs. If you're happy with an 8 system,
           the upgrade might not be worth the trouble right now. However, if
           you're setting up a new system there is no reason not to install 9
             \_ Thanks.
        \_ what is wrong with Debian?
2003/6/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28599 Activity:nil 75%like:28602
6/1     What are the pros/cons of Linux 8 vs. 9?
        \_ The con is neither exists.  You might mean Redhat 8 vs 9 or
                Mandrake or some other distro - if so, specify it.
                Linux is currently at 2.4 with 2.5/2.6 under development.
                  \_ Yes, of course I meant Red Hat.
           \_ Maybe Red Hat = Linux like Rollerblades = In-Line Skates
2003/5/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Database] UID:28555 Activity:high
5/26    I saw _The Matrix Reloaded_ and thought that I "got it".  I didn't.
        revealed much to me.  --darin
        \_ what? the guy didn't even know how tank died?
        \_ He got it all wrong. Here's how it works:
           Architect: Bill Gate$/Tanenbaum
                \_ You think Microsoft ever actually created anything?
                   \_ Other than a large software mess that enslaves
                      most of the worlds coders/computer users?
                      Notice how bugs are still being worked out in
                      Version 6.x.
           Morpheus: RMS
           \_ RMS? Who's that?
                \_ A hacker.  See:
                \_ random psycho idiot who makes a lot of sense if only he'd
                   let go of some of his weirder bits.  at least he's very
                   consistent.  btw, anyone remember playing xtrek in the
                   planets cluster on the rms/rms account?
                   \_ of course.  Faster than the web, plus you could get
                      into sequent before 11:00 PM.  -tom
           Neo: Linus Torvalds
                \_ One is a hot young star, the other a greasy fat hacker who
                   has no political opinions.  I can't buy this one.  Sorry.
                   \_ Have you ever talked to Linus? The guy is pretty
                     \_ Donald Kunth
                      opinionated (about everything not just politics).
                      And his wife kicks some major ass a la Trinity.
           Zion: Bitkeeper
           Oracle: ESR
                \_ So you think ESR is working hard to keep Microsoft alive?
                        \_ It is debatable whether or not the oracle is
                           working to keep the matrix alive.
           Keymaker: Phil Zimmermann
           Merovingian: NAI
           Agent Smith: SCO/Redhat
           \_ Who is Cornel West in your mapping?
                     \_ Donald Knuth
2003/5/21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28505 Activity:very high
5/20    For those if you worried about the SCO/IBM/Linux Lawsuit:
        Read this, from the cnet article by Bruce Perens:
        "The real story here is the lack of substance to the SCO claims, and
        the increasingly remote chance that its lawyers will prevail. A
        similar case alleging plagiarism of Unix by an open-source
        operating system was litigated in the early '90s. AT&T sued the
        University of California, claiming that the BSD system infringed
        upon AT&T's copyrights. Eventually, the court narrowed AT&T's
        concerns down to only four source files, which the university
        simply replaced rather than argue about them. AT&T then settled the
        case by paying the university's court costs. SCO is not likely to
        do any better."
        \_  Thanks.  I thought I am the only one who cared about Linux
           in this BSD crowd    -- not geeky enough to use BSD
           \_ see, it's not about care.  we're just not concerned because
              there is nothing to be concerned about.
        \_ Uhm, why exactly should *any* of us be concerned about one random
           smallish company suing some other random very large company about
           anything?  Worried?  What for?
           \_ there is a real chance that big company abandon Linux as
              platform due to legal issues, however slim that chance is.
                        \_ That would be great. We could finally get
                \_ Dell and IBM (maybe HP? i have no idea) have been
                   selling hardware with linux to "big company" for
                   a while now.
                           the stinking penguin feces off of our
              \_ Linux isn't made for "big company".  Why should anyone give
                 a damn if all "big company" don't use Linux for anything?
                 Linux doesn't have market share.  It isn't sold.  No one who
                 makes it makes money on it.  Whatever.
                  \_ Linux was created to have a UNIX-like US on the PC.
                  \_ Dell and IBM (maybe HP? i have no idea) have been
                     selling hardware with linux to "big company" for
                     a while now. <interruption moved to more polite place>
                  \_ Linux was created to have a UNIX-like OS on the PC.
                     Linux is a powerful, stable, multi-user OS. Isn't that
                                \_ HA HA HA HA! Good one.
                                   \_ What do you mean? Compare to any M$ OS.
                                      What is your problem with Linux?
                                      \_ He's not comparing it to MS.  He's
                                         a brainless reactionary, and anyway
                                         My Ford is WAY better than his Chevy
                                         \_ Have you tried using linux for
                                            any real purpose other than
                                            disposable web serving? Even for
                                            non-critical redundant clustering
                                            we have lots of reliability
                                            problems with linux. The boxes
                                            keep crashing in with vm errors,
                                            hanging on network io. Linux is
                                            also a pain in the ass to keep
                                            updated and exploit free (even
                                            I don't mind linux for light
                                            desktop or server use but to
                                            call it powerful and stable
                                            is a joke.
                                      \_ UC Engineering used to sell a t-shirt
                                         with a bell curve that says "Smarter
                                         Than The Average Bear".  Engineering
                                         students may indeed be smarter than the
                                         average bear, but that doesn't mean
                                         they are smart in any absolute sense.
                     what big companies want? If big companies (IBM) adopt
                     Linux, it may be more likely that software companies
                     will release Linux versions of their wares. Peoplesoft
                     for example. This would make it easer for Linux market
                     share to increase, which I believe would be a "good
                     thing". I do not like Microsoft, and I beleve that
                     Linux is our best hope.
              \_ It's far more likely that IBM will simply acquire SCO.  Of
                 course, then IBM could litigate everyone else...
              \_ Obgoogle.  (how hasn't this been said already ?)
        \_ The disconnect is that BSD was completely rewritten to remove all
           AT&T code during the late 80's and early 90's. This was a largely
           volunteer effort that made the AT&T case moot.
2003/5/20 [Computer/SW/OS/SCO, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28499 Activity:high
5/20    MSFT buys unix license from SCO.  MSFT will sue linux to death!
        Death to linux!
        \_ MSFT use to own part of SCO, I don't remember how much, but
           before OS/2 MSFT was considering using SCO UNIX as the base
        \_ I hereby predict that Microsoft will soon create the
           of their nextgen OS.
           Linux with their crap.
                \_ Try even further back in history.  Microsoft sold
                   Xenix, an ancient Unix based on AT&T System III before
                   they bought DOS and started selling it.  After DOS
                   took off, they sold Xenix to SCO, but kept a stake
                   in SCO as part of the deal.   (cat /bin/clear on Solaris
                   for a Microsoft surprise left over from their Xenix days)
        \_ yack yack yack.  They can't sue anyone for any such thing.  You
           can go away now, thanks.
        \_ I hereby predict that Microsoft will soon try to create a
           Microsoft Linux Distribution. They they will try to pollute
           Linux with their crap. But the linux folks will audit
           the code, remove any SCO/M$ stuff, and linux will be purified
           in the process and then Linux will slowly overcome Microsoft.
        \_ URLP
           \_ #t
        \_ MS is buying a license, not the right to license.
           Order of events:
           1. Linux spreads far and wide in homes and enterprise
           2. SCO says, "Time to pay up, Linux has some of our source code"
           3. IBM doesn't pay; SCO files suit
           4. SCO sends more letters telling companies they're infringing by
              using Linux
           5. MS buys a license from SCO: "See, we're compliant"
                \_ Why would MS do that? They don't use linux.
                   \_ MS: "See, IBM and all those other loser companies,
                           by using Linux and not paying a license fee,
                           are all damn pirates."
        \_ My theory is that MS bought the Unix license from SCO just to inject
           some cash into this bankrupt company because the longer they litigate
           with IBM with more damage will be done to Linux PR (in short run).
2003/5/16-17 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28454 Activity:moderate
5/15    Anybody heard any experience about buying the Lindows laptop to
        install Debian Linux on?
        \_ second that.  in fact... is that VIA chip they are using Intel-
           compatible?  would you guys share the experience using it? thanks
           \_ cohorts have freebsd and redhat running on c3 boxes.
                \_ Any other recommendations for a nice c3 laptop for
                   Linux that has an eraser-top mouse pointer?
2003/4/29 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:28259 Activity:high 50%like:28255
4/28    I just bought a 120GB WDC hard drive backing up stuff from multiple
        computers onto my Linux box. Any reason to make more than one
        full-sized partition?
        \_ Probably not.  Others might say something about fsck times or
           backup schedules and stuff but no, not really.  Use a journaled
           filesystem for shorter fscks and I know you're not going to tape
           so "shrug".
           \_ I always prefered a good long slow fsck...
              \_ tell yermom.
                 \_ already showed yermom.
                 \_ already showed mymom.
                    \_ how much did she charge you?
2003/4/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28237 Activity:nil
4/25    I just started playing with the red hat up2date stuff and the redhat
        network stuff with a demo account.  Is there a way to get it to
        update my system from 7.x to 9.0?  It seems that the 7.x "channels"
        have different kernel versions and maybe other stuff than what's in
        the 9.0 "channel".  Thanks!
        \_ Hey Mr. Linux-is-better-than-Irix, answer this one!
2003/4/18-19 [Consumer, Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:28163 Activity:kinda low
4/18    Toshiba or Hitachi laptop drive?
        \_ Hitachi.. they are/were IBM... the quietest and fastest
           laptop drives on the market (if you buy the 5400rpm).
           IBM sold their whole storage division to Hitachi.
           \_ Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  I don't see any 9.5mm drives @
              5400 rpm though.
              \_ Ah, just checked.  60gb drives are about $80 more if you go
                 from 4200 rpm to 5400.
           \_ Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  I don't see any 9.5mm
              drives @ 5400 rpm though.
              \_ Ah, just checked.  60gb drives are about $80 more if
                 you go from 4200 rpm to 5400.
        \_ I bought a hitachi travelstar 30 gb drive last week for
           around $90. It has 2 MB cache and is pretty quiet and
           suprisingly fast for a 4200 RPM drive. Similarly spec'ed
           toshiba's are a bit more expensive and since I had to keep
           it under $100, I chose the hitachi.
2003/4/10-6/15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:28056 Activity:moderate
4/9     Anybody knows what's up with alumni.eecs?
        \_ prob upgrading h/w and/or s/w again.
           points to a fresh install of apache.
        \_ apparently it got rooted.
           \_ again?  what's up, used to be alumni and ucsee were reliable.
           \_ I thought ucsee and alumni.eecs had a power outage for
              several days?
        \_ Why do people ask this shit here?  Go find the alumni.eecs admins
           and email them.  No one here knows anything about non-csua systems
           and almost as little about csua systems.
           \_ because some ppl are members of both groups.
              \_ so what?  There are other csuaers that are members of my bird
                 watching society.  I don't ask them bird questions on the
                 \_ take a look at the array of questions that get asked on
                    the motd, and the array of responses.  I don't remember
                    one in particular, but i'll bet bird questions have been
                    answered here before.
2003/4/9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:28038 Activity:moderate
4/8     Can anybody recommend a free NetZero-type dialup whose software
        will allow me to dial in from a Linux box? Note I am temporarily
        unable to mount a windows emulator.
        \_ you're kidding, right.
2003/3/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27718 Activity:nil
3/16    When people say "format your drive, install Linux", do they mean
        RedHat Linux, Debian, or something else? When people say "Ride Bike"
        do they mean ride motorcycle or ride bicycle? -motd wisdom seeker
        \_ the "learn something" is implicit.
        \_ Debian
           \_ ...and bicycle, respectively.
2003/3/4 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27591 Activity:low
03/03   Novice question again:  I have notice that we have rpm installed.
        I thought RPM is redhat/linux thingy.  how come it is avaliable
        for BSD?  Also... can normal monkeys (i.e. non-root) install rpm
        packages in their own directories?
        \_RPM is just a package format. You can conceivably RPM any type of
        binary, but I am assuming that Sloda is running Linux binaries in
        binary compatibility mode or whater. Just know that
        Net/Free/FooBSD can also run Linux binaries.
        You can't typically install an RPM unless you have the right
        permissions to read/write to /var and /usr/local.
        \_ RPM is just a package format. You can conceivably RPM any type
           of binary, but I am assuming that Sloda is running Linux binaries
           in binary compatibility mode or whater. Just know that *BSD can
           also run Linux binaries. You can't typically install an RPM unless
           you have the right permissions to read/write to /var and /usr/local.
        \_ RPM works on many platforms (I've seen it run on *BSD, Solaris,
           Linux and MacOS X) but it is most popular on RH based systems.
           If you have relocatable rpms and you can create your own
           rpm db in ~me/var/lib/rpm it is possible to get this to
           work. Most rpms aren't relocatable so in reality using
           rpm as a not root user isn't terribly useful.
2003/2/21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27475 Activity:high
        "Frustrations, though, run high. One Microsoft executive, chief
         strategist Craig Mundie, even calls Linux unhealthy for the
         technology industry. "It ultimately is a question about whether
         societies are going to value intellectual property or not," he says."
        \_ In a sense he's right but not for the reasons he says.  If all the
           tech stuff was given away, who would be making new tech?  Remember
           most of this stuff is made by tech people with regular tech jobs
           who do open source as a hobby.  Hard to support your hobby when
           you're hungry and bills are due.  The IP thing is bullshit though.
2003/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27466 Activity:low
2/19    Debian question: How can I get the installation to fully work with an
        MDA (monochrome display adapter). I have used : "bf24 video=vc:8"
        at the boot prompt to not display the penguin, but now the screen
        goes blank when the install menu should load.  It works fine with
        the "vanilla" boot argument, but I want to use the bf24 kernel for
        many reasons.  I can't find any more info anywhere.  no "bf24
        video=vc:8 mono" or "bf24 mono video=vc:8" doesn't do it.
        Also, do I pass arguments to "dbootstrap" at the boot: prompt?
        \_ use lilo?
            \_ No, I mean the boot prompt from the debian install CD.
2003/2/14 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27406 Activity:nil
2/13    How can I find out the overall progress jigdo has made in getting a
        debian CD. The iso.tmp file starts out big, and does not grow.
        \_ watch for "Found 10 of the 1423 files required by the template"
           The second number decreases as time goes by - when it reaches 0,
           the download is finished.
2003/1/28-29 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27225 Activity:high
1/28    When I installed Debian, it suggested I run the Xserver with nice = -10.
        Where can I change that value?
        \_ Why would you want to stale your Debian?
        \_ figure out where the xserver is getting launched from
                \_ yeah, startx -> xinit -> XFree86, I believe,
                   but in none of the config and xserverrc files can
                   I find anything about "nice" or "10"
                   \_ do you need to do a man nice?
                        \_ I did. Did I miss the answer to my question?
                           I know I can "renice" X, but i want to change
                           its the nice value it starts with.
                           \_ that's the difference between nice and
                              renice, bozo
                                \_ You are not nice.
                           \_ no, really, you need to do a man nice.
                                \_ whatever. I want to locate the
                                   file that determines the priority of
                                   my Xserver. are you saying, "just run
                                   'nice 0 startx'", cause that is not
                                   what I'm looking to do.
2003/1/27 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:27208 Activity:very high
1/26    is there a way to make debian's "dpkg" give more width for the
        name field, so I can read the entire name-string?
        ie: %dpkg -l "*modules*"
        ||/ Name                   Version                Description
        ii  kernel-pcmcia-modules- 2.4.18-5               Mainstream PCMCIA m
        ii  kernel-pcmcia-modules- 2.4.18-5               Mainstream PCMCIA m
        pn  kernel-pcmcia-modules- <none>                 (no description ava
        \_ Use the source, Luke!
           \_ who are you?  you always post the same response "USE
              FURRY GIRLFRIEND."  fuck off and die.
              \_ These are not the nerds we're looking for.  Move along.
             \_ It wouldn't be the first time. I was hoping there was
                a way already built into the software?
        \_ environment var: COLUMNS=132
           \_ christ-o-mighty!  stop giving out man page answers.  they'll
              never learn anything like that!
                \_ I got the answer from the Debian FAQ, and I'm actually
                   the "op" answering my own question in case anybody else
                   was curious.
2003/1/27 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27205 Activity:high
1/26    I'd like an small, image viewer like "xv", but with a "free" license,
        not shareware.  Any suggestions.
        \_ OS?  What type of images?
           \_ Linux.  xpm, tiff, png, jpg, etc..
        \_ electriceyes.  /usr/ports/graphics/electriceyes/  -jon
2003/1/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27127 Activity:nil
1/16    The entire network was down, now it is broke as fuck.
        Not exactly confidence inspiring.
        \_ did it go down because of the network or because of the OS?
        \_ Maybe someone tripped over a wire.
        \_ they need to run a real OS.
        \_ Have you ever used redhat? Its not exactly confidence
           \_ Yes, I have used it. What's about it that's not inpiring
              confidence in you?  Is it lack of robustness, support,
              documentation, or applications? -!op
           OR JUST BITTUR
2003/1/11-13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:27069 Activity:moderate
1/11    Can someone point me to the requirements for a system user on
        RH linux (e.g. "can't start with a number").  I would have
        thought this easy to find on google, but i failed.
        \_ FreeBSD's pattern is [^[a-z0-9_][a-z0-9_-]*$]
           you can probably do a bit of testing with that and see
           what happens.
           \_ sorry i'm not great with RegEx; does that say the the
              first character CAN be a number in bsd? 'cause it can't
              in RH linux.  (and i've never seen it in bsd-land).
              Also, that doesn't specify a max length.
              \_ RTFM man useradd or equivalent on RH
           \_ I don't even think that's a valid regex.
              \_ Seek greater regex fu, grasshoppa.
              \_ It isn't. the ^ means invert the pattern, which isn't what
                 the guy is going for.
                 \_ If you read it as /.../ instead of [...], it makes sense,
                    but could more easily be done as a perl re:
2003/1/7 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:27006 Activity:high
1/06    Does the redhat package Manager (rpm) only know about libraries that
        it has installed?  I have put a library in /usr/lib and put /usr/lib
        in and rpm is still complaining that it can't find the
        \_ Have you ran ldconfig afterwards?  And is rpm complaining that about
           lack of the library or lack of an rpm package that contains the
        \_ Yes, it only knows about what it has installed. Dependencies are
           based on the installation of packages. You can force it to install
           anyway if you want it to. --dim
        \_ is LD_LIBRARY_PATH set? If so it might override
        \_ yet another reason for linux suckage.  at least some of the other
           distributions use semi-rational ports/package mangers. or use a real
2003/1/5 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:26993 Activity:nil
1/4     Has anyone gotten a Creative MuVo working under Linux? Is it stable?
        Does it look just like USB storage to Linux?
        \_ when there is naught but useless decay and detritus on the motd,
           why dost thou plod on in search for useful information here?
2003/1/2 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:26964 Activity:high
1/02    What could cause my linux box to go into "promiscuous mode" all by
        itself.  I've run a tripwire stored on cd and nothing has changed.
        \_ AFAIK, tripwire only tells you that the stuff it knows
           about hasn't changed. An '1337 h4x0r can still 0wnz your
           box and install rpms and kernel modules that will put
           your interfaces in promiscuous mode.
           Or it might just be someone running tcpdump or ethereal.
            \_ Sure tripwire doesn't cover everything but it gives
               me faith that my ps and who commands are correct and
               i don't see anyone running tcpdump or anything else
               like that.  Besides, i'm the only root on this box.
               I was hoping that perhaps other services sometime cause
               the interface to go into periscuous mode.  Like dhcp
               or samba or iptables or...  (funny thing though is that
               it is only my outside interface that is doing this :(
                \_ I'm not aware of any normal services that
                   require interfaces to be placed in promiscuous
                   BTW, I hope that you realize that while your
                   who and ps binaries might be unaltered they
                   may not be providing you complete or correct
                   information (kernel modules pretty much have
                   full access to all kernel data structures and
                   can easily hide programs and users from user
                   land pgms).
                   Do you have a network sniffer? If so, try and
                   stick it on the same segment as the promiscuous
                   interface on your linux box and see what sort
                   of traffic is being generated. If something
                   looks abnormal, you've probably been hacked.
        \_ your linux box is horny and you're not satisfying its needs.
2002/12/29-30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:26936 Activity:high
12/29   Why is the Pac 10 so weak this year (bball)?
        \_ Who cares?  This has nothing to do with linux.  Get off the motd.
           \_ is running apache on unix. close enuf!
              \_ Linux even...
                 \_ That would explain the weakness this year.
2002/12/28-30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:26925 Activity:high
12/27   Anyone know of a four port IDE controller card that's well supported
        under linux? Yes, I've already STFW. -dans
        \_ promise, though i can't stand them
           \_ I can't stand Promise easier.  In fact, I'm having major
              grief with a Promise card as we speak.  I looked on their
              site, and they don't appear to list any four channel cards
              (except for a serial ATA card, but the drives I've got are
              plain vanilla ATA drives).  I see a number of two channel
              cards (total of four disks).  Did I miss something? -dans
              \_ Their raid controllers.  I've used a couple without much
                 mishap, but their plain ATA controllers, I've had die very
                 frequently. --scotsman
                 \_ Yeah, I've googled a bit more and found the SX4000, which
                    it seems promise has purged from its site.  There is the
                    considerablly more expensive SX6000, which has two ports
                    I don't need.  Also seems questionable as to whether the
                    SX4000 is supported under linux. -dans
                    \_ Check that, the SX4000 is not supported under Linux in
                       any way that I could consider remotely accepatable.
                       any way that I could consider remotely acceptable. -dans
        \_ Acard.
           \_ According to Acard's site, they support Redhat, Suse, and
              TurboLinux.  Do you know of anyone that has gotten their four
              channel RAID card working with a stock Linux kernel? -dans
                \_ They have a rpm with the source for the kernel
                   module. Just grab that and compile for your distro.
        \_ 3ware has cards that support up to 8 disks, raid & jbod.
           \_ Yup, 3ware's cards kick butt.  Alas, they are pricey.  Was
              wondering if there was anyone else in the market.  But they
              have an honest to hoyle open source driver, and that may
              convince me to give them my money. -dans
              \_ "honest to hoyle"
              \_ beware older 3ware cards.  Do *not* save yourself a buck
                 buying an older card.  I've lost hundreds of gigs of data to
                 older 3ware cards.  No problems yet on the newer ones.  Yet.
                 \_ Define 'older' please.  I was looking at an Escalade
                    7500-4.  The only thing I'm aware of that is newer are
                    the 8500 series which are serial ATA -dans
                 \_ I asked before, but looks like it got nuked, are the 7500
                    series cards sufficiently new?  The only other 3ware cards
                    I see are the 8xxx cards, which are serial ATA. -dans
        \_ I don't get the "hoyle" reference.  pls explain.
           \_ honest to hoyle, same as honest to goodness or honest to god.
              In this case, an honest to hoyle OS driver as opposed to a
              braindead binary-only driver. -dans
        \_ rock on, geek god.
2002/11/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:26632 Activity:very high
11/26   on Linux file system (ext2/ext3)... I know that the superblock
        is repeated every X of blocks.  and yes, my linux partition's
        superblock got fucked up... block 8193 is corrupt as well... which
        superblock is next?             --googled and find no answer
        \_ From the mke2fs manpage:
           -S     Write  superblock and group descriptors only.  This
                  is useful if  all  of  the  superblock  and  backup
                  superblocks  are corrupted, and a last-ditch recov­
                  ery method is desired.  It causes mke2fs to  reini­
                  superblocks  are corrupted, and a last-ditch recovM--
                  ery method is desired.  It causes mke2fs to  reiniM--
                  tialize the superblock and group descriptors, while
                  not touching the inode  table  and  the  block  and
                  inode  bitmaps.   The  e2fsck program should be run
                  immediately after this option is used, and there is
                  no guarantee that any data will be salvageable.
           Never tried this myself, but I try to avoid redhat.  --scotsman
        \_ Depends on the options to mke2fs.  Default options depend on
           your distro.
        \_ Some versions of newfs when given the proper parameters will give
           you the alternate super block list.  I'd give you the exact options
           but I'd rather you checked the man pages for newfs and got it
           exactly right for your distro.  I don't want to be responsible for
           wiping your drive by telling you something that might be wrong on
           your system.
           \_ anything is welcome.  I don't have that many thing important
              on that Linux box, and worse comes worse I will reinstall it.
              Just that I have encountered this very very often, and I would
              like to find a way to fix it... in case that there is something
              important on my linux box in teh future.
              \_ Ok then, try "newfs -N <device>", where <device> is going to
                 be something like /dev/hd0c or whatever the path is to the
                 hard drives on your distro.  Please check the man pages that
                 -N option exists and that it only prints the parameters for
                 the device in question as it does on mine.  You want the
                 character device, not the block device.
           \_ there is no newfs.  only zuul.
           \_ tried newfs prior to my post on motd, newfs doesn't come with
        \_ I believe it repeats every 8192 blocks, so just add 8192 to 8193,
           try to restore the superblock from there, rinse, repeat.
           \_ tried... "Bad Magic Number in super-block while trying to open
           \_ are you assuming the first superblock is at 0? then you need
              to re-check your math. --aaron
        \_ man fsck.ext2 and look at -b option.  tune2fs -l /dev/whatever will
           tell you if you have sparse superblocks --dwc
2002/11/22 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:26596 Activity:high
11/20   How did Soda crash? I thought FreeBSD was the mighty uncrashable OS?
        \_ You got a Win2K machine that's been up this long with no crashes?
        \_ Don't be stupid.
       \_ Stale troll -- stale cookie.
          \_ Au contrair.  LOL at the OS snobs.  May their noses descend
             from the clouds.
             \_ Whatever.  I'd like to see a Linux system take the punishment
                soda does and stay up as long.  That's a joke.  --linux admin
                \_ yeah, I'm sure's servers don't take any
                   punishment.  -tom
                     \_ God damn if you aren't the biggest stupid fuck on the
                        motd.  You idiot.  They obviously have zillions of them
                        behind load balancers so when a few dozen go down, you,
                        the internet luser coming in from the public net would
                        never know it.  You have absolutely no fucking clue
                        what you're talking about, never ran a 24x7 site, never
                        touched a load balancer, and know nothing about the
                        difference between a multi million dollar multi hosted
                        site like amazon or google and a single host system
                        like soda.  You have any idea why they use linux?
                        Because it's rock solid?  Nope.  That's not it.  They
                        use linux because its kewl and some places use it
                        because it's a cheap way to run throwaway java boxes.
                        The last I checked soda wasnt a throwaway java app
                        server box in a farm of 5000 machines.  And finally,
                        you are a fucking idiot.  --real 24x7x365 admin
                        \_ I think it's more likely that an anonymous
                           coward doesn't know what he's talking about, than
                           that Amazon and other major tech businesses around
                           the world run Linux because it's "kewl".  -tom
                           \_ Anonymous or not, he's sounding better than
                              you at the moment.
                        \_ "real admin" sounds like a jew.
                             \_ nah, that level of beratement is quite common
                                with koreans.
                                \_ either way still sounding smarting than tom
                                   \_ Oh yeah, a real achievement, that.
                                      \_ ok got me there. its a low standard.
                                        \_ the comment wasn't clever the first
                                           time, either
       \_ Hi paolo!
          \_ doesn't sound like him.
2002/11/8 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:26472 Activity:nil
11/7    "Microsoft Memo: How Not To Torpedo Linux"
        Is that memo intentional leak?
2002/11/6 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW] UID:26434 Activity:low
11/05   alternatives to cygwin, or is cygwin the shit? tia
        \_ nothing worth talking about.
        \_ Real *NIX.
        \_ cygwin is pretty good for medium to light use. esp. if you don't
           feel like dual booting and don't wanna deal with linux
           configuration shit and its dearth of certain types of software.
           \_ RIDE BIKE!
        \_ cygwin is THE SHIT.
2002/11/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:26392 Activity:nil
11/2    Anyone use good OCR software for Windows or Linux?  If so, please list
        it here.  Thanks.
        \_ if you know any good OCR for CHinese for Linux, list here please
2002/10/13 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:26167 Activity:kinda low
10/12   How much does a Gigabit Ethernet NIC and switch cost? Where to Buy?
        \_ way too vague.. NIC varies btwn $100 and $1500 depending on
           the manufacturer and the cards features and the switch varies
           on how many gigE ports and other ports on it. for basic pricing
           maybe check Dell.. they have a very cheap gig switch. and of
           course everything depends on copper or fiber. -shac
              \_ Copper PCI NIC's that work in Linux and a 4 port copper switch.
                 I still have a related question from yesterday: Compare the
                 lag between running an Xserver (WinAxe_) over 100BaseT compared
                 with running X on the Linux machine's hardware for real.
                 \_ I've displayed netrek from workstation to another over a
                    100mbit link.  Ran as fast as if it was local.  YMMV.
        \_ Ebay sells Cisco gig switches for <$1000.
2002/10/12 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:26160 Activity:moderate
10/11   I just tried the WinAxe+ Xserver! It totally kicks ass!  I'm going to
        upgrade my net to run my apps on a Linux box in the basement and
        display them via WinAxe on my windows box at my desk. Should I go to
        Gigabit ethernet, or is 100 fast enough? I want it to feel as fast
        as if I were connected directly to the Linux box.  Does the desktop
        windows box need a fast processor to do this right?
        \_ Why not just run Linux on a single machine on your desk instead?
           \_ Because he also needs Windows apps which Linux doesn't provide.
           \_ there isn't QuarkXPress for linux.
              \_ dude like you should just use open source and write your own
                 and like itll be better than anything and itll be free and
                 you'll totally rule and be just like linus who answered an
                 email i posted once, well not really but he wrote back to
                 some guy who had a name that sounded like mine and it was
                 cool for me to think it was like linus really writing back
                 to me ya know and like then everyone will have free quake
                 express and we'll all write cool mods and new weapons and
                 maps and stuff and itll totally rock and USE LINUX!
                 \_ dont forget to ride bike
                    \_ dude theres no room for my rad linux on a bike! ive
                       got like my mp3 server with raid5 and 500+ gigs of
                       cool tunes and like i needed a hummer to carry it so
                       im, ya know, saving up for a hummer and itll have a
                       50 cal on a turret for better parking and itll be like
                       that open source guy who likes guns ill be like him and
                       have linux and ride hummer and be cool too!
        \_ XManager is pretty good, and cheaper. Kinda like WinZip, they ask
           you to pay, but don't stop you if you don't.
                \_ Does it have a full screen mode so my whole monitor
                   is in X land?
2002/9/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Unix/WindowManager] UID:25917 Activity:very high
9/17    My middle button emulator doesn't work on Linux/KDE, where's the
        config for that?
        \_ Buying a 4 dollar 3 button mouse.
        \_ XF86Config.  Probably in /etc/X11 or such.  -John
           \_ Buying a 4 dollar 3 button mouse is a better use of OP's time.
2002/9/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:25910 Activity:high
9/17    What's the name of the company that sells ready to use Linux boxes?
        \_ Dell? HP? --dim
        \_ Dell? HP? IBM? Sun? --dim
        \_ VA Linux used to make them.  Cobalt Networks (acquired by Sun)
           makes them too.
           \_ A company I was at got a pair of va linux test boxes.  Other
              than being 1U cases, there was absolutely nothing special about
              them.  Oh yeah, except for the cost: 5x what it should've been.
        \_  A friend of mine bought his machine there and has
           had no complaints.  -- alice
           \_ I ordered from them a while ago and had some problems which
              they eventually handled.  Buying online isn't worth the hassle.
              Buy from a bricks and mortar store.  That way, when something
              gets screwed up, you can go into the store and make some noise.
2002/9/10 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS] UID:25832 Activity:kinda low
9/9     I'm recompiling the Linux kernel on a slow laptop. I have the
        kernel configured to use modules and it successfully compiled. I
        encountered an error during the modules_install. I want to recompile
        less modules. Do I need to recompile the kernel also?
        \_ Do you mean 'less modules' in the sense of 'using fewer modules'
           or 'minus the modules'?  In the first case, not necessarily,
           unless you want the kernel to do the stuff the missing modules
           did.  In the second, I think yes, if want to remove module
           support from the kernel altogether.  Can you compile the
           kernel on a faster machine?  -John
            \_ good point. I meant "fewer modules". There are just a lot
               of modules that get compiled by default: things I don't
               need. I'll still be using modules. I don't own a faster
               machine with linux, but I have some accounts. Hmmm. Thx.
2002/9/4-5 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/IO] UID:25766 Activity:high
9/3     How do I capture all keyboard events under linux? I want to do
        "cat /dev/keyboard > keyboard_log"
        \_ there is an OS independent hardware solution, if you're willing
           spend the money($159.00):
        \_ try xev
                \_ But how do I capture all windows? even new ones that are
                   popped up? And what about VTYs?
                   \_ get a life?
        \_ run freebsd, use the snoop device
        \_ rewrite keyboard drivers.
        \_ what are you trying to accomplish?  this is not likely what you
           want to do, unless you're doing something really lame.
           \-hello, i have written a module to do this under some
             solaris and from my conversation with linux people it seems
             like this can be adapted for linux however i lack the knowledge
             of how to do this on intel hardware [i dont understand these
             IRQs real well] and linux kernel modules. if you have a good
             reason, i can send you this, however i think it will be a fair
             amount of work to adapt for linux. i vaguely remember some
             securty researcher said there was something for linux aready
             although it may not be generally avail beyond security
             researchers [this was for a honeypot]. ok tnx.
                \_ everytime I see "ok tnx." I get this warm-fuzzy all over!
2002/8/28-30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:25716 Activity:nil
8/27    i haven't used ant before, and i'm trying to compile some tomcat
        stuff on RH Linux. I want to add a compile option (-DEAPI), where
        do I put the option in the build file?
        \_ Do you want to add a -DEAPI command line arg to javac?  (huh?)
           Which version of tomcat?
2002/8/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:25471 Activity:high
8/1     rise and fall of va linux :
        \_ And all "linux companies".  Hey leik d00de this kewl thing is leik
           all the rage lets do _something_ related to this linuks thing and
           then IPO!  The stereo typical Linux Business Model blatantly stolen
           from many others on the web:
           1: Linux based business model
           2: ....
           3: IPO and vast riches!
           \_ I thought phase 1 was collect underwear
           \_ This is a sign your company is going to be fucked: "We were
              all a big group of friends." Someone somewhere needs to be
              the boss. --dim
2002/7/18-19 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:25382 Activity:very high
5/17    If I'm running debian potato and add a testing site in my apt sources,
        will I magically be upgraded to woody? Any problems in doing this?
        (Using dselect)
        \_ i don't want to hear about your magic woody.
        \_ Yes. debian >> redhat. debian ?? bsd ports. -op
        \_ X will break.  Other than that, i've had no probs yet.
           you might need to apt-get upgrade (not dist-upgrade)
           \_ X didn't break for me.
        \_ edit your apt.sources file and change all instances of "stable"
           to potato so that your box is not unexpectedly (and possibly
           undesirably) upgraded to "woody" the day it becomes stable.
        \_ Also redirect your biscuit to potato (save the original),
           this eliminates the need for BSD caches.
           \_ do they really use these stupid names?
              \_ I was just thinking that.  How can I be expected to sell this
                 stuff to the PHBs with names like potato, woody, and biscuit?
                 This shit just isn't serious no matter how well it may work.
                 The Debian and other Linux folks are going to have to figure
                 out that they need non-stupid names as an easy first start in
                 being taken seriously.  Is there some committee of
                 sub-geniuses out there that wastes time coming up with these
                 idiot naming schemes?  Too much beer?
                 \_ it's from Toy Story.  Yes, the naming scheme sucks, but
                    that's what happens when you let geeks attempt to be
                \_ yes SunOS/Solaris is so much better!
                   \_ At least it sounds like it came from a BigCorp Marketing
                      Dept. which is something PHB's can understand and get
                      warm fuzzies from as opposed to "woody" which only gets
                      giggles and can't possibly be taken seriously.  Think
                      about it for a while and imagine yourself trying to
                      explain to the suits why you need to install some more
                      woody machines later this week to increase performance.
                      \_ Then just use terms like "stable" and "testing" or
                         \_ I'll stick with 2.7/2.8 and my job.  Thanks.
2002/7/14-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:25360 Activity:moderate
7/13    stupid Linux question - can i copy files from a Linux machine
        onto a floppy disc and read them on a windows machine? (it didn't
        work when i tried it and i don't know if it's because my floppy
        drive is broken or because i'm doing it wrong).
        \_ I've done it.  Is it a DOS floppy?  Did you type 'sync' before
           removing the floppy, or otherwise unmount it properly?  --PeterM
        \_ If you have a dos formatted floppy (yes, you can format it under
           Linux as well), there's usually something like mount -t msdos
           <floppy device> <directory>  Then copy files into that directory,
           unmount it, and voila.  -John
        \_ Does anyone still use the mutils?  mformat, mdir, mcopy, etc.
           Basically DOS filesystem utilities for floppy disks on *nix OSes.
           \_ well, I think trying to mount the floppy drive isn't working.
              I type 'mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy' and the floppy
              drive light comes on briefly but when I try to umount it, it
              doesn't seem to exist ('no such file or directory'). -op
2002/7/5-6 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:25281 Activity:very high
7/4     I'm working in the Linux kernel (2.2.16) and I have a userspace address
        from the process I am running in the context of.  I want to find the
        mapping for this address and a given length into physical memory
        addresses.  Any ideas on the best way to do this? --jwm
        \_ Is there anyone on soda that knows the Linux VM system?
           \_ Yes.
              \_ Ok then, I want to do I/O with memory that is in userspace
                 and I don't want to have to touch it with the CPU. What is
                 the normal method for doing this?  I have looked at several
                 ways so far and none seem to be possible to do in a
                 straight-forward manner.  I am currently looking at working
                 around the VM system and doing it myself, but I would rather
                 \_ Shut the fuck up you moron.
        \_ jwm, one of the last CSUA FreeBSD kernel hackers.  Alas, he has
           fallen to the evil one.  Let us all mourn (again) the passing
           of an era.
           \_ I've not given up on BSD, it's work, and it pays the bills.
              If I had my way, Linux would get sent packing, but I don't
              and, it's still what I have to use. --jwm
              \_ you will be assimilated -daveh
                 \_ Yeah, right.  I'm too powerful to be assimilated by Linux.
                    Linux is my tool, but definitely not the sharpest tool in
                    the shed. --jwm
                    \_ we welcome jwm to work with the tool, and we look fwd
                       to working with him.  - openminded linux programmer.
        \_ I quit trying to use the VM system I'm disgusted with it. Anyone
           that took 162 with FreeBSD and bitch should be VERY happy that
           that took 162 with FreeBSD and bitched should be VERY happy that
           Linux wasn't used. It's a steaming pile.
           \_ Didn't someone rewrite it recently?
                \_ Maybe, but I can't upgrade.
2002/6/22 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:25170 Activity:moderate
200 OK
Connection: close
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 06:40:41 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.20 (Unix)  (Red-Hat/Linux)

And your point is? Check out the soda one.
2002/5/11 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:24795 Activity:nil
5/10 proving that
        open source = racist.
        \_ I'm pretty sure that guy thinks himself funny.  This is a common
           delusion.  Youi, however, have no excuse.
           \_ I'm not Youi!
           \_ It wasn't a humor piece.  It's all true.  Why the blinders?
2002/4/25 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:24573 Activity:high
4/24    Segway's first customer is Atlanta:
        \_ Charge it for 6 hours, and only 15 miles per charge? _NOW_ I'm
           convinced nothing too major will come of it. Multi-billion-dollar
           niche my ass.
           \_ D00D U R 50 WR0NG! S3GW4Y 15 50 '1337! 17 R0X! S3GW4Y H45 1075
              0F R00M T0 GR0W! JU57 L1K3 P4 & 174N1C!
           \_ I heard it runs Linux.  Now I want one!  /.
              \_ debian/gnoo linux or 3V1L R3D H47?
                 \_ k3wl-d00de l1nux!!1  1tz k3l3rZ d@n d3b1@n/\/\/\gn00!!!11
                    t0eT2ll33 318!!!!
2002/3/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:24138 Activity:high
3/16    Hey does anyone remmeber the Alex file system? Anyone know if it is
                          \_ no. -alex
        still available or if there has been any improvements in the last 10yrs
        on ftp-backed file systems? ok tnx --psb
        \_ WebDAV relevent?
        \_ Didn't Microsoft innovate that?  I think they did.
          \_ we've got to stop antitrust laws, Java, and Linux from
             preventing Microsoft from innovating. It's what the consumer
             \_ Yeah I read this thing the other day that said Linux was anti-
                American.  We should stop letting foreigners write code.
2002/3/16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:24130 Activity:moderate
3/15    GNU/Hurd: you were 100% right.  It wasn't worth it.  It's still very
        development level code.  Even things like man were segfaulting.  That
        was the least of the problems.
        \_ Debian GNU/Hurd port will likely not be released with the next
           version of Debian (and even that will probably happen in summer)
           which means that, at best, Debian GNU/Hurd will release with
           the Debian version after the woody. Given the current Debian release
           cycles, that will probably happen two to three years down the road..
           \_ The Hurd is an interesting concept but I think they took some
              stuff too far.  Like I think I should still be able to use the
              mount command to mount a cd but as far as I could figure only
              the settrans command does that now.  Even if the thing was 100%
              functional, I'd still want some sort of compatibility layer or
              aliases/scripts or something to ease the transition.  The docs
              suck, too.  I had to search google to find out that I needed to
              use Grub/Lilo to boot and not the newly created hurd partition
              even when it's flagged bootable and the first partition there.
              The gnu and debian sites didn't say this.  Thank you google.
              \_ Dude, it's common knowledge that google is better than
                 whatever specialized solution you had in mind.  I have been
                 using google to search the citeseer database for a while now.
                 It's kind of sad, really.
                 \_ I'd expect the docs that say "read this to learn how to
                    install" would have told me without a "specialized
                    solution" for searching.  I was reading the provided docs.
                    How special is that?
2002/3/12-13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:24089 Activity:moderate
3/12    Anyone used the Gnu Hurd stuff before?  I was thinking of playing
        with debian/gnu but I'd have to start from scratch since I don't have
        a debian or even a linux box to play with.  I'd be wiping an openbsd
        box.  Is it worth it?  Is there anything interesting in it?  Would I
        notice any changes as a user or as the sysadmin?  Obviously I'm not
        going to put it into any sort of use.  This is just for my amusment
        at my desk.  Thanks!
        \_ "Is it worth it?" In a word: No.
2002/2/12 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23842 Activity:nil
2/11    Is the Big News about the 2.5.4 Kernel going out a motd quality
        post that won't get censored?  Can someone post a list of topics
        that are 'allowed' on the motd so we don't violate some unwritten
        \_ Why are minor linux kernel revisions in the development tree
           interesting?  You'd think anyone who cared would be following it
           on their own.
        \_ list:
           - yermom
           - why gwb is a wanker who looks like a monkey and talks like
             an illerate member of the kkk
2002/1/28 [Recreation/Activities, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23693 Activity:insanely high
1/27    Broke my arm when I went skiing this weekend. Anyone used Dragon
        Speak or other software? I need to type for work and I'll be in a
        cast for a while. Thanks                -1 hand typist
           \_ More dvorak advocacy:  There is a 1 handed dvorak layout,
              works with either hand.  It was designed for people with
              disabilities, poor skiing skills specifically being one of
                \_ Do broken arms work with cable modem?
                   \_ No.  There's a "two hands only" policy for AT&T cable
                      users to prevent pr0n viewing.
                      \_ And there's a reason for that: you can't touch both
                         the mouse and johnny with only one hand.
                         \_ Explanation redundant.  Are you stupid?
                \_ there's also a qwerty half-keyboard.
        \_ I broke my hand skiing, and I found that by the time I was off
           enough of the drugs that I could type coherently again, I'd
           gotten proficient enough with a normal qwerty that I was fine.
           then again, I have the problem regularly enough that I'm actually
           farily used to one-handed typing. -chialea
        |____ man I love these useless "format, install Linux" type of answers
2002/1/22 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23629 Activity:nil
1/22,org,net are not working. I need a crash course on NAT
        using Linux. Thanks really appreciated.
        \_ if you're using Linux 2.4.x
           or various related HOWTOs at if you're using
           Linux 2.2.x.
2002/1/21 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23615 Activity:high
1/20    AOL buying RedHat this week.
        \_ Will it be renamed to AOLinux?
        \_ [ kinney's drivel deleted. ]
        \_ Redhat was already the AOL of the Linux world.  It makes sense.
           Real Men(tm) use UNIX(tm) anyway.
2002/1/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23576 Activity:nil
1/15    the Redhat 6.2 Box set came with a really good big red
        book called something like _the Complete Redhat linux_
        or something like that.  Can someone tell me where i can
        order that book now (and what it's called if i'm wrong).
2001/12/24-26 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/HW/Display, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:23362 Activity:high
12/24   I can buy 1 17" monitor or 2 15" monitors. I prefer the latter because
        of the more-bang-for-bucks factor. Does anyone know if it is possible
        to get a video card that supports 2 monitors?
        \_ Are these LCDs or CRTs? If you are considering LCDs, I'd recommend
           going with a single 17" since these are general brighter and support
           a wider range of resolutions (most 15" are limited to 1024x768).
        \_ There are plenty of dualhead video cards around from Matrox, ATI,
        \_ I have a G400 that works in dual mode quite well w/ Win2k. Also
           works w/ 98/ME. I had to upgrade my BIOS and the drivers to get
           it up and running.
           \_ Severals friends and I have also gotten it running under Linux.
              There are tons of resources for this on the web. do a search for
              "xinerama mode" or something.
        \_ Bang for the buck?  How about dozens of 9" b/w monitors?  Do you
           have 2 sets of eyes?  Get the 17" or bigger if you can afford it
           unless you have a specific need for a dual head system.  I bought
           a 21" years ago for almost a thousand bucks.  I'm still using it
           now.  I'd never go back to 19" or smaller for daily use.  Dual 21"
           could be cool though.
                \_ 2 17" is better than 1 21". Bigger and cheaper.
                   \_ Yes, and 50 9" green screens are bigger and cheaper
                      too.  Don't you have 50 terminals hooked up to your
                      box?  You and your 2x17"... you fool.
                        \_ while 2-4 displays are possible, the practicality
                           of 50 monitors is questionable. Your argument is
                           quite weak, and I suggest you try again you self
                           righteous pedantic fool.
                           \_ You ignorant lout.  We wired 50+ terminals to
                              a Sun 10 years ago at my work.  Did you even know
                              what Unix was then?  I know exactly what I'm
                              talking about where as you clearly do not.  Go
                              back to your G400 and Linux Rewlz! books.  This
                              obviously is beyond your kiddie knowledge.
2001/12/23 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Security] UID:23354 Activity:nil
12/22   How do you make OpenSSH 2.5.2p2 works with Debian Linux 2.2 r4?
        ssh into this machine kept on getting denied while everything works
        fine with OpenSSH 1.2.3 (precompiled for Debian). Does that mean
        Debian 2.2r4 doesn't support ssh2x? Thx in advance! - jthoms
2001/11/25-26 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:23096 Activity:low
11/24   Using linux (red-hat) ping, how would I make it timeout
        after 5 seconds of no response? -w and -c options don't work
        if host is not-pingable. I want to do something equivalent to
        'ping <hostname> 5' like in Solaris or
        'ping -t 5 <hostname>' like on soda
        \- i have a program called "timeout" that takes an argument in seconds
        and a commandline ... if the process exected doesnt exit before the
        alarm goes off, the timeout program sends it some flavor of a kill
        signal [either HUP or KILL]. This is an incredibly useful program
        and is easy to write [i seem to have lost the src code] but you can
        then do someting like "timeout 5 ping". i suppose i
        could mail you the src if i can dig it up and knew who you were.
        its like a 50line program so writing it shouldbe pretty fast and you
        can tailor it to whatever exit codes/signals you might need. --psb
2001/11/13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23028 Activity:nil 66%like:23014
11/13   linux is the threat:
        \_ The slashdotification of the motd is the real threat.
2001/11/13 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23026 Activity:moderate
11/13   I heard Bin Laden played a clandestine role in the
        development of Linux!!
        \_ I heard he was funded by Gates, and targeted the WTC
           because MSDW didn't switch from UNIX to W2k.
2001/11/12 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:23014 Activity:nil 66%like:23028
2001/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22879 Activity:nil
10/30   Suppose you don't have a will and you die. Who gets to keep your
        precious bike, your gold fish, 4 Linux servers, 1 hub, a bunch of
        expensive text books and a checking account that is barely over 4
        digits? Thanks.                         -starving student
        \_ It's your spouse if you have one.  Otherwise I don't know.
                \_ BTW I am not married and I don't have a house. I do have
                   an old jalopy
        \_ looters?
           \_ that's one name for probate court
        \_ Write a will and name csua as your beneficiary.
           \_ only if he has a porn library.
        \_ Your parents or siblings. Most likely the good stuff will
           be taken by your roommates.
2001/10/14-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22733 Activity:nil
10/13   Technical sessions at the Anal Linux Showcase & XFree86 Conference
        in Oakland Nov. 5-10 are now free, thanks to Usenix & Linux Intl.:
2001/10/12 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22710 Activity:nil
10/11   Please tell me a JumpStart equivalent in Linux Land. (RH)
        \_ kickstart
2001/10/11-12 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/Rants, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22689 Activity:high
10/10   I don't know how aware you guys are about the SSSCA but it's a
        bill that must be opposed at all cost.  I encourage you to write
        a response to the redhat network who are actually collecting
        email from people and sending it to the congressman who is
        proposing this draft.  I hope that you too will become involved
        in the campaign against the bill and that you make all your
        family members, co-workers and friends aware of what's going on.
        This is a very serious issue that will affect how you live your
        life.  For the link check out:
        \_ I'm so sick of hearing how *everything* must be opposed "at all
           costs".  I would not put down my life over this.  Would you?
        \_ no, write a paper letter to your Congresman, not email to RedHat.
           \_ sure that works even better.  I merely provide the link for
              the more laconic people.  But, by all means, write/fax your
        \_ Is the SSSCA that no distro'ing software publically thing?
           It sounds pretty bad, but even if its passed, it can't stop
           freenet et. al.
        \_ Althought the republocrats are all the same, My old self is
           demanding that i point out that this bill was introduced by
           a democrat.
           \_ An Alaska Republican is lined up to co-sponsor the thing. He
              is just waiting until he agrees with the language.
           \_ and this is relevant, how?  Seriously, dem, rep, it doesn't
              matter.  it's clue vs. non clue.  have vs. have not.
              \_ yeah. i think if you look at scientific and technology
                issues in general, there are not really any party lines
                to speak of.  probably because your average voter(and
                your average representative) do not understand or care about
                 most of these issues.
                \_ compounded with the fact that they want to be like
                   Justice Hand and  want to be in the history books as
                   the first person to legislate about something; so they
                   hurry thru the legislation creation process.
2001/9/20 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22555 Activity:nil
9/20    Where does one download the latest Redhat Linux?
2001/9/10 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22362 Activity:moderate
9/9     What the hell is wrong with you people?  LinuxWorld
        just passed and there was NOT ONE MENTION of it on
        the motd!  Don't you know that i COUNT on the motd to
        keep me informed of geek stuff like this?
        \_ Every second exhibitor was a hardware company. The biggest booths
           were those of IBM (biggest and most visible), Compaq, HP and Sun
           along with Intel and AMD. Dell and SGI were not there. Plus, there
           were RedHat, Mandrake, SuSE, VaLinux/OSDN, Ximian, Debian, FSF and
           other usual suspects. Unlike before, there wasn't much free gear
           like CD's and t-shirts though you could pickup lots of magazines
           and get massage for free. There wasn't much new this year, really.
           Probably slashdot and such have better coverage of this event..
        \_ Who cares about Linux (and LinuxWorld)?
        \_ lisux
2001/9/8 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22350 Activity:nil
9/7     Back Orrifice for Linux:
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:22232 Activity:moderate
8/23    One of the byproducts of the Linux 2.5 Kernel Summit was the notion of an
        enhancement of the loadable kernel module interface to facilitate
        security-oriented kernel modules.  The purpose is to ease the tension
        between folks (such as Immunix and SELinux) who want to add substantial
        security capabilities to the kernel, and other folks who want to
        minimize kernel bloat & have no use for such security extensions.
        \_ well, folks "with no use for security extensions" probably ought
           to run cygwin xfree4 on win98 then.  See screenshot:
           <DEAD><DEAD> - notbrg.
                                                          \_ shouldn't that
                                                             be !brg ?
           \_ Why not just use exceed or xwin32? Seems a lot less of a hassle.
2001/8/22-23 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22204 Activity:nil
8/21    Does there exist an MPEG encoder card with linux drivers under $200?
2001/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:22074 Activity:high
8/10    Help!  So, I know the basic operation on Linux, but I am very
        weak on Linux Administration in general.  What is a good reference
        book that is good to have for those who are comfortable *USING*
        Linux, yet weak on administration and trouble shooting?
        \_ RedHat Linux Unleashed should be right up your alley
        \_ Running Linux
        \_ Running From Linux
2001/8/2 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:21992 Activity:high
8/2     Why install linux when the selection of out of the box software in
        the stores is not that great?  This is not a troll.
        \_ Fewer crashes than NT, I guess.
          \_ Most out-of-the-box software in the stores is shit.
2001/7/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:21975 Activity:high
7/27    Looks like Linus will probably have to start pimping his baby for
        cash soon:
        \_ What's the point of a company's shareholders sueing the company?
           The money the company has all comes from the shareholders anyway.
           If the company needs to pay a penalty, it'll be the shareholders
           paying themselves.  Right?
           \_ Its fraud. If the shareholders were cheated by the founders,
              the founders will have to pay out of thier own pocket.
        \_ Maybe the threat of shareholder lawsuits might begin to
           convince aggresive marketing/exec types to stop hyping their
           warez so much before they're proven and start being more realistic
           about ship dates.
           \_ the only winners in shareholder lawsuits are the lawyers. -tom
        \_ Isn't Linus a software guy?  Since when did he go into chip
           \_ He's one of the principles at Transmeta. Unfortunately he knows
              about as much about chip design as he knows about OS design,
              (for the unwashed and holy, he knows didley squat about OS
               design) so basically he ended up overhyping his shit and
              cheating a bunch of poor gullible investors whose only flaw
              was that they believed his snake oil pitch.
2001/7/19 [Computer/SW/Apps, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:21857 Activity:high
7/19    here's more on the cryptographer who got arrested in vegas monday: with a companion
        website: - the non-social new guy on soda.
        \_ PROTEST IN SAN JOSE ON MONDAY. Information at:
           Transportation may be available from fremont and berkeley;
           contact alexf.
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