12/8    Gore endorses Dean: http://tinyurl.com/ydad (sfgate.com)

12/8    I'm not sure exactly what this is related to, but I've found the
        following weird (to me) behavior on my debian linux system:
        I start an rxvt from my icewm toolbar, and then run some other
        application Y in the rxvt. For some Y's, Y will be niced to 5,
        or at least so says 'ps -lu me' (where me is my login). This seems
        to happen for Y that have "poll" under the WCHAN column. This isn't
        exactly a critical issue, but I'm curious as to what's going on, so
        if anyone has any reasonable ideas, I'd like to hear them. Thanks.

12/8    How comfortable are military planes? For example, if I'm flying a
        long mission to Iraq in my B2 or F117, will I get heated seats, AC,
        cushioned seat, TV dinner, etc on the plane?
        \_ Think: Enough comfort to be functional and little more.
        \_ No TV diner. There's a waste bladder for you to piss in. No real "AC"
           since it's not pressurized. Though a B-2 might be.
           \_ Consider B2 missions can last 36 hours long...

12/8    How do I shrink a knit cotton sweater?  Should I wash it hot or dry it
        hot or just dry it for a long time?
        \_ Cotton shrinks a little the first couple times its washed.  I think
           you need to dry it hot.  If it's been washed a number of times,
           it won't shrink anymore.
           \_ This is an old sweater that's just gotten somewhat stretched out.
              Does that make a difference?
              \_ If it's been washed a number of times, it has already shrunk
                 all it's going to shrink.

12/8    Top Dog in San Jose opens this Wednesday, 10:30 a.m. to 9 p.m.
        11th St. and San Carlos.
        \_ Barf.
           \_ You won't appreciate how good Top Dog really is until you
              have been away from Berkeley for a while.
              \_ hmmm. i've only been away for five years, so that must
                 be why it sounds nasty.  Maybe in another five years
                 i'll understand.
                 \_ It took me ten years to be able to appreciate Top Dog.
              \_ Again, barf.  Retch.  Try Rosamunde in the Lower Haight, SF,
                 for a real sausage.
                 \_ That's a bit of a drive from San Jose.
        \_ When do we get a Top Dog in downtown SF ??

12/9    I'm shocked that Battlestar Galactica didn't suck anywhere near as
        much as I expected it to.  Sure the Starbuck chick was lame, but they
        totally de-emphasized her and mad her a bit character...

12/9    Clinton arrested with a crack pipe!
        http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/entertainment/gossip/7444864.htm
        \_ We elected the wrong Clinton.

12/9    I can understand why china doesn't want taiwan to be independent.
        But what i don't understand is why they're so worked up about
        the proposed reffurendum in taiwan, given that for all practical
        purposes taiwan *is* independent.  is it just a pride thing?
        if taiwan already has an independently elected government, an
        independent armed forces and pays no taxes to the mainland
        what the hell difference does it make to beijing what they
        claim in some vote?
        \_ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=516&e=3&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on_re_as/us_china
           Bush publicly opposes independence. So much for independence.
           \_ Support for an Independent Taiwan was the only positive thing I
              saw in the Bush Administration.  And now that's gone, too.
              Jayzus H. Keerist, can no one see what a whore this man is?
        \_ one China one Nation.
           \_ I read in "Guns Germs and Steel" that one factor that held up
              China from developing into a world power pre-1492 was that it
              was a single political entity at the whims of the emperor.  i.e.
              They had a world class fleet they could have used to dominate
              with but they just decided to do away with it, as the result
              of a political struggle between factions in the imperial court.
        \_ I'm a little curious too.  I think it's about saving face.  Right
           now they can say "We're China, and there is one rebellious province"
           If there's too much talk of independance, it rubs their nose in the
           fact that the civil war was really fought to an impasse, and the
           communist revolutionaries didn't totally win.
        \_ one word: communism. "Taiwan has all the goodies, and we want
           them too."
        \_ China is all about stability.  They rule by the atmosphere of
           "if you stick out, we'll stomp you".  They'll roll over college
           students with a tank, and have no problem shooting live rounds.
           Do you have a problem?  Then you belong in a Chinese prison for
           20 years as a political prisoner.
           If China lets Taiwan become independent, it fears that its own
           citizens will get ideas.
           \_ what do you think the US will do if our civil war didn't end
              the way it did? Do you think if California decides to become
              independent (I don't see why not since we are not getting any
              fucking shit from the federal government), everything will
              go smoothly? It's not about saving face. It's about national
              unity, a concept you obviously don't understand. They wouldn't
              have cared less if Taiwan is rich or poor.
              \_ China *had* national unity before Mao.
                 \_ read a fucking history book.
                    \_ United Front
              \_ What you're saying falls under what I wrote.
        \_ Who's the douchey douchebag that keeps deleting this thread?
           \_ Heh, I've only deleted it once.  - troll-recognizer whose
                                                 comment got deleted
              \_ it was not intended as a troll, it was intended to generate
                 interesting discussion, which it did(along with the usual
                 flames).  go fuck yourself. -op
                 \_ Whatever.  Delete me, I'll delete you.

        \_ It's easy. There must be one great Communist Nation to combat the
           evil greedy infidels of the Capitalistic BushReich!

12/8    If you are a San Franciscan, vote today. This is going to be
        a very close race and every vote will count.
        \_ soda poll?
           Gonzalez: ....
           Newsomm: .
           !psb: .
           \_ poll of those who wish they could vote
              Gonzalez: ..
              Newsom:
        \_ Yes, your choices are A) drive businesses out in 5 years
           or B) drive businesses out in 1 year
           \_ You don't know much about SF, do you?

12/9    What language (other than English) is more widely used in western
        Europe?  I'm trying to decide to learn either German or French.
        And another related question for anyone who has been to the
        Netherlands:  it seems like a large part of the Dutch population
        speaks German.  Why is that?  Thanks.
        \_ Learn French. You can get more chicks with it.
        \_ Learn French.  German is a horrid language.  It's not widely
           spoken and you will hate it.  Trust me, I speak both.  Dutch is
           sort of cute, but you don't get much mileage out of it.  -John
           \_ Then again, this is coming from a guy who didn't think
                30 millions lives of Chinese is not worth nearly as much as
                3 million Jews.  so, be aware
                \_ I think you have a double negative problem there.  Not to
                   mention your head stuck way up your ass.
           \_ John, can I get around switzerland or germany/austria with
              french?  Most people in switzerland speaks german I think.
              I know english is the de-factor second language in the world.
                                    \_ de facto
              I'm trying to avoid speaking english when I go to europe.
              I don't want to be the big ugly american.
              \_ don't worry, with broken english like that, you wouldn't
                 pass for american.
                 \_ http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame31.html
   "Grammarian usually has little to contribute to a discussion and
   possesses few effective weapons. To compensate, he will point out
   minor errors in spelling and grammar. Because of Grammarian's obvious
   weakness most Warriors ignore him."
                    You need to troll harder, grammarian.  I was hoping you
                    would work your way up the troll ladder.  But you're stuck.
                \_ hey, we found partha:
                   http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame16.html
           spoken and you will hate it.  Trust me, I speak both.  -John
        \_ 'Dutch' is a corruption of 'Deutsch.'  Think about it.
        \_ IMHO, it all depends on what you want to do with the language.
           French is more widely spoken in Western Europe, some part of Africa
           and even in Asia too. (Vietnam comes to mind) If you're learning it
           for fun, AND if you've done some French in high school/college, go
           with French. German is an easier language to learn in terms of
           pronounciation (just watch our governator for practice :)) and
           a few words are similar to English. Good for reading techie manuals
           and an important language in the medical field. It might even get
           you a job at Siemens, BMW, DT, etc. since they're actively
           recruiting German-English speakers. If you're into history, think
           Latin. Not as much fun but it's pretty useful.
           \_ HEIL!!!!! LONG LIVE DIE FUHRER!
           Latin. Not as much fun but it's pretty useful.
              \_ Der.  Der Fuhrer, not Die Fuhrer.

           Or you may want to think about Spanish. Yes I know it's "boring"
           but given the usefulness in California compared to other European
           languages (i.e. you're more likely to meet someone to speak
           Spanish with in CA than any other languages), it may be good, plus
           you've most likely received some basic Spanish in High School.
           you've most likely received some basic Spanish in High School.
           \_ spanish is boring and french isn't?  you're a nut.

           Dutch people tend to be proficient in their second languages because
           they are aware that not many people outside Holland speaks Dutch
           (except for maybe Namibia, South Africa, etc.) so rather than
           y(except for maybe Namibia, South Africa, etc.) so
           rather than taking the stance of the stereotypical snotty French,
           they rely on German, English or French. (German comes to mind since
           taking the stance of the stereotypical snotty French, they rely on
           German, English or French. (German comes to mind since it's
                                                 \_ he's over there!
           bordering east of Holland; a lot of people from the Eastern
           \_ Even the word 'Dutch' is a bastardized german word for 'German'.
              See above.
              \_ The Dutch have no love for the Germans, though, and the
                 languages are about as similar as Spanish and Italian or
                 Portuguese.
                 \_ I don't think the Germans are particularly popular in
                    Europe.
           it's bordering east of Holland; a lot of people from the Eastern
           part of Holland cross the Germany border to go shopping. This info
           comes from a good friend who lives in Groningen (Holland). Hope this
           part of Holland cross the Germany border to go shopping. This info
           helps, sorry it's long-winded.
           comes from a good friend who lives in Groningen (Holland). Hope this
           helps, sorry it's long-winded.
        \_ About Dutch/German: the languages have a lot of similarities, more so
           than French/Dutch. I know a little German and many Dutch words look
                                                 \_ he's over there!
           like bastardized German.
           \_ Even the word 'Dutch' is a bastardized german word for 'German'.
              See above.
              \_ The Dutch have no love for the Germans, though, and the
                 languages are about as similar as Spanish and Italian or
                 Portuguese.
                 \_ I don't think the Germans are particularly popular in
                    Europe.

12/9    How come Clark didn't gain any momentum? I thought people would like
        him in the MidWest and South, where they are not liberal enough to
        support someone like the ex-Governor of Vermont.
        \_ Who, Dean?  The liberal who's all for guns?
        \_ Clark joined late, and when he did join he didn't say anything to
           stand out. "Hi I'm Clark, I was a general so vote for me". If Dean
           wasn't in the race, I think Clark could have beaten Kerry.
           \_ i'm not sure why you're using the past tense.  Clark *is*
              ahead of kerry in the polls, and the earliest primaries
              are still a couple months away.

12/9    R.I.P Sen. Paul Simon
        link:csua.org/u/578

12/9    Fill in the first person that came to your mind:
        technical guru: Bill Joy:asshole, GeneHKan RIP
        rich geek: Bill Gates
        crook: Sadam Hussein - Kenneth Lay - Nixon - Dick Cheney - W
        conceited: Larry Ellison - Michael Jackson
        cool geek: Woz - John Lennon - Matt Dillon
        \_ Justin Frankel
        motd censor: tom holub
        \_ i think you mean paolo
        evil: Bill Clinton
        stoopid: George W. Bush

12/9    Another campaign promise broken by the Gropenator:
        http://csua.org/u/576
        \_ It's a good thing you included an article which does NOT
           get to the 2nd part of the announcement, that he'll let an
           independent investigation do its job.

12/9    Sodans who have a spouse/so with children from previous marriage(s),
        please comment on positive/negative experience.  Ok tnx.
        \_ are you seriously going to take the motd's opinion on this!?!?!!!!
           it's a little too big of a question to not discuss in person with
           people you trust.

12/9    Read this you beatniks and open your eyes:
        http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/publications/digest/034/johnson.html
        \_ Pride goeth before a fall.
           \_ Pride goeth before destruction,
              and an haughty spirit before a fall. Prov 16:18
              \_ I hope you are all right. That way we can have a "Mad Max"
                 world and I can use my guns. Seriously.

12/9    I'm a registered democrat.  And I think Dean or whoever gets nominated
        will lose in 2004.  Our best hope for a comeback is Hillary in 2008.
        I want the Clinton days back!
        \_ the only hope for the survival of the democratic party is for
           new people to join and push aside the libermann-type democrats
           who have an appeasment policy toward republicans, and become more
           like them every election cycle.  Dean brings new people into
           the democratic party(i just registered democrat for the first
           time today, *only* because of dean), who can not only revitalize
           the democratic party in general, but who may well beat bush.
           \_ The impending American divide.
              \_ please elaborate
        \_ You're a Republican troll.  Dean is the real thing, the Clintons are
           plastic.
           \_ Dean blows and he will lose if he runs. I don't want to see
              Bush win. Why can't the Dems ever find a good candidate? Did
              they just get lucky with Bill?
              \_ Oh, he 'blows.' What an insightful analysis.
                 \_ I'll type up a document and post it to the motd. Not.
                    \_ That's ok, your opinion holds no water based on how
                       much you seem to love Bill, a man who was really good
                       for Bill Clinton but probably put the nails in the coffin
                       for the Democratic party.  Dean is a real person with
                       a good platform.  Do you think he 'blows' because he's
                       against the war?
                       \_ It has nothing to do with his position on the war, but
                          instead his record in Vermont, his stated platform,
                          his waffling on the Middle East, and his stupid
                          flag comment.
                          \_ His record in Vermont is commendable.  His platform
                             is cohesive.  He has not waffled on the Middle
                             East at all - in fact, he's the only politician
                             of note that has anything resembling a clear
                             position other than GWB.  And the flag comment
                             was great.  Anything else?
                             \_ You're a tool. Go look at what he did in
                                Vermont, not what he *says* he did. His
                                platform is not consistent with his claim
                                of being fiscal conservative and neither
                                is his opposition to free trade. He has
                                indeed waffled on whether support to Israel
                                should continue. The flag comment was offensive
                                and even his fellow Dems thought so. He will
                                not win middle-America's vote and so he will
                                lose just like Gore even if people in CA and
                                NY like him.
                                \_ *laugh* I love how you make these
                                   predictions based upon a few snide opinions
                                   about things that no one really cares about.
                                   The truth is that the Democratic nominee can
                                   lose the entire South and still win by only
                                   winning *one* more state than Gore did.
                                   Remember, Gore lost New Hampshire.  Dean has
                                   a stunning organization that represents a
                                   whole new way of doing things.  The last
                                   two elections, done the old way, have been
                                   a total disaster for the Democrats.  I'll
                                   enjoy making fun of you in November, almost
                                   as much as I'll enjoy Bush losing.
                                   \_ Bush losing would be great, but I'm
                                      not even sure Dean will win the Dem
                                      nomination.
                                      \_ He will.  He's the only one running
                                         a risky, fiery campaign, and that's
                                         a risky, firey campaign, and that's
                                         the only chance the Democrats have
                                         to win those swing states.  They've
                                         gotta take risks, because the number
                                         of sure-fire Democrat states is less
                                         than the number of sure-fire Republican
                                         states.

12/9    Koreans sure know how to make commercials
        http://www.rock103.com/crew/vids/koreancommercial.wmv
        \_ And noodles!

12/9    Why isn't Gore running? Is he scared of Bush or somethin'?
        \_ Ask Carter in 1984 or Bush, Sr. in 1996. Politics is a
           time-sensitive art.

12/9    Can someone recommend a way to read the contents of a FreeBSD
        partition with UFS filesystems from a Windows box?  It's a laptop
        disk which won't boot properly by itself, FreeBSD doesn't like the
        USB case I've put it in very much, and I don't have a Mac handy. -John
        \_ You need an NT (I'm assumming you are running NT version of Windows)
           filesystem driver for UFS. Once that is installed you should be able
           to read it. You need to basically buy this from someone. If
           it was an ext2 partition I have a driver for it, but alas UFS
           isn't amongst the list of highly utilized fs --williamc
           \_ I hope that last bit is sarcasm.
           \_ williamc seems to think John is a n00b
        \_ Probably not what you're looking for, but perhaps you can burn
           and run knoppix from the CD?

12/8    chew on this, joe!
        http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/08/politics/08CND-GORE.html?hp