11/4    Dear motd Etiquette Arbiters:  Tonight my wife & I went to the Simon
        and Garfunkel concert at the San Jose Arena.  We ended up seated next
        to Mr. Self-Important Hipster and his female companion.  Throughout
        the concert, Mr. SIH would *not* *shut* *up*, loudly making attempts
        at witty remarks to his female companion, following each with a "HEH
        HEH HEH" laugh at his wittiness.  (Mr. SIH didn't wait for applause
        or breaks in the music; he just talked through everything.)  Finally
        having had enough, I leaned over and asked "Excuse me, but can you
        please be quieter?"  He shot back with "EXCUSE ME, BUT CAN *YOU* JUST
        RELAX AND ENJOY YOURSELF???!?"  Female companion chimed in with
        "Yeah, it's a *concert*, man -- people can do whatever they want!  If
        you want everything to be all quiet while you listen to music, just
        stay the hell home and listen to CDs!"  After which, of course, they
        proceeded to ignore me and talk to each other even more loudly.  Am I
        right to be completely appalled?  Is it reasonable to expect people to
        be reasonably quiet at a concert that doesn't involve a nightclub or a
        moshpit?  Or do I just need to shut up and relax in our newer, ruder
        America?  How have the rest of you dealt with similar assholes with a
        giant sense of entitlement who do their best to make social events
        unpleasant?
        \_ I've noticed that this happens more often in the bay area than
           elsewhere.  Depending on the show, of course.  Snotty punk kids
           are usually a lot more annoying in places that are not as
           interesting as SF.
        \_ so... this is not exactly like going to La Traviatta or a virtuoso
           pianist performing near impossible passages from Liszt repertoire.
           This is popular American music where you'll expect low class
           white trash the same way you'll expect black trash in hip-hop
           concerts (and hip-hop is pure crap, I don't understand why kids
           like that trash. Must be peer pressure)
           \_ Yo! Yo!  Sniznits!  It's the buzz!
        \_ You should stop complaining on soda and reflect on why you
           didn't beat the shit out of them.  But realistically, you should
           have argued with them until you felt satisfied.  Better to have
           both of you pissed off than just you pissed off.
        \_ Complain to an usher/mgr next time. They can do something about
           it. As an example, at a ballgame, they can and will throw ppl
           out for using foul language, etc. Chances are that others
           around you are similarly offended and will back you up.
           \_ Probably not so useful during a concert. A lot fewer ushers
              and there is a general buzz level that is to be expected.
              \_ But worth a shot.  Anyway, when confronting someone who is
                 obviously an asshole, the OP needs a different approach.  When
                 you were polite about it you showed weakness.  Your opening
                 should have been, "STFU you asshole!  I paid to be here and
                 \_ agreed.  there are really only four ways of dealing with
                    these people:
                    1) ignore it
                    2) move
                    3) talk to management, or
                    4) BE PREPARED FOR VIOLENCE.
                    If you're not actually prepared to start a fight and win,
                    stick to 1 thru 3.  I had to pull a knife on a guy in
                    a movie theater once, and in the end, I ended up back
                    at number 3) which was far more effective (fortunately
                    the management were all punks who sympathised with my
                    cause, since the perps were jocks.)
                    \_ But if everyone had guns there'd be no problems!
                       \_ "I dream of a world without guns." -- bkid
                           \_ then only criminals will have guns.
                              "Guns are as dangerous as ideas" - Stalin
                 if I hear one more word out of your stupid mouth I'm following
                 you back to your car and knifing your dumb ass!"  The asshole
                 is a lot more likely to respect someone else who is both an
                 asshole and potentially violent than someone who is polite.
                 \_ oh come on, be a little more civilized. of course, the
                    problem with civilization is you can't just kill his
                    dumb ass on the spot.
                    \_ the OP tried to be civil and got his face rubbed in it.
                       if he waved a knife in the asshole's face, he and his
                       dumbshit whore would've stfu real fast.
        \_ Go to the gym immediately and start out with some bench presses,
        as heavy as you can.  Repeat this every other day for a few years.
        If you can't stare down someone at a Simon and Garfunkel concert,
        you have real problems. -ax

11/4    http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp
        \_ dubya is a dumbass.  I still can't believe he went through with it
           (Gulf War II)
        \_ This is what I don't understand.  Bush Sr. never intended to
           invade Iraq. I presume that was not just his lone opinion,
           but rather, consensus among his staff.  Consider that a good
           number of Bush Jr's staff are inherit from his father, wouldn't
           you expect there is at least SOME degree of consistancy in opinion
           regards to this Iraq business?
           \_ Yeah because 12 years didn't change the world at all.  Everything
              in the world remains exactly the same over time and the same
              response is always appropriate in all situations.
        \_ Look.. oh ignorant of histoy one.. you always need someone outside
           to blame.. in this he was a despot that took a little longer to
           remove.
        \_ Do any of you so called geeks engage in strategy / role playing
           games?  Do you fight defensively
           on your own territory or take the offensive and attack.
           In virtually every game the attacker wins.  War is no
           different, the aggressor has a huge advantage.  Hence,
           fight the Islamicist's on their territory - not in the
           West.
           \_ But, but, that would be racist and mean!
           \_ Nice troll try. Your use of games vs. reality tempted me.
           \_ I heard Russia won every war that it's the defense in history,
              but lost every war that it's the offense.
                \_ Russia lost over 20 million in WWII, St. Petersburg
                   and Moscow were destroyed completely.  All of their
                   war material was supplied by the U.S. through lend
                   lease.  Napoleon was driven back by the winter.
                   Russia 'won' neither of these conflicts, only
                   harsh, early winters and inept planning by their
                   enemies saved them.
                   \_ Nah, US supplied a little material, but most of
                      it was made by Russians.  The number of tanks
                      and planes the Russians made is about the
                      same level as what the US made in WWII.  They
                      moved many factories to the Urals.  Zhukov is
                      probably better than any of the US or British
                      generals.
                        \_ Are you sure?
                           http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/lend.html
                           You are right I exagerated by saying all but a
                           significant contribution.
                                1100 locomotives
                                440,000 trucks
                                12,000 aircraft
                                28000 jeeps
                                nuclear material
                                1,200,000 tons of steel.
                           You are right I exagerated by saying all but a
                           significant contribution.
                           \_ WTF?
                              Pianos, new                              2 $530
                              Phonograpbs, except coin-operated        4 $ 67.
                        \_ Zhukov?  Yeah right, the guy's got how many Russian
                           soldier's deaths on his hands?  If any American
                           general lost 300,000 American lives in a single
                           battle, he'd be executed if he was lucky.
                                \_  800,000 died in the battle for Stalingrad.
                \_ I've seen a map of Russia's size over the last 1000 years.
                   They've grown and shrunk dramatically several times which
                   can't happen unless they attacked and won something.
                \_ Genghis Khan (or should that be Ogotai?) kicked their
                   arse but that's about it.
           \_ I play Age of Empires, and yes a good defense can win the
              game.
                \_ Bull, none of the expert players play defensively
                   you will always lose.

11/4    Thanks

11/4    Has anyone read "The Politics of Anti-Semitism". Reviews?
        \_ No, but I read the motd and it's the same shit the Nazis, the
           Spanish, the Arabs, the Russians, and everyone else has been
           spewing since ancient times.

11/4    OS question.  normal Linux requires a partitioin for its swap files.
        Why, and where is such restriction exists?  Is it has something to do
        with the kernel?  I recently stump into this thing called Knoppix
        Linux, which can be run on a CD without ever being installed.
        Obviously it doesn't use a seperate partition for virtual memory
        because by default, it mount all other HD read only.  Now
        I am absolutely confused.  Any ideas? pointers?
        \_ Not sure, but I noticed that the first two days I ran knoppix last
           week, I had to reboot my computer the next morning... it doesn't
           do that anymore. maybe there is no VM?
           First google shows that it will mount any linux swap partitions
           that you have, unless you specify otherwise.
        \_ Linux does not require a swap partition. It doesn't require any
           swap whatsoever. (at least not debian or slackware) Nothing to
           do with the kernel. Also, you have the option of using a swap
           file if you don't have enough physical RAM.

11/4    Matrix >> Matrix 3 >> Matrix 2.
        Gotta love the nipple twisting.
        \_ You can get nipple twisting in most SF bars.
           \_ Hell, you can get that nearly anywhere. You just need to ask.

11/4    Lila, any relationship to the famous General Patton?

11/4    How can my FSB run at 133MHz but my DDR-SDRAM run at 333MHz?
        My BIOS settings appear to allow this.
        \_ Short answer, FSB and "memory speed" are independant. The CPU
           doesn't "talk" directly to the memory, they both "talk" through
           the North Bridge. Google for North Bridge.
        \_ They are both valid settings, but it you use them together there
           might be trouble.  My guess is the RAM would operate at double the
           FSB speed.

11/4    I love salami sandwiches. You have to toast the bread (buttermilk
        is the best) and then put a thin layer of mayo on each slice. Then
        add a layer of premuim salami, two slices deep. MMmmmmmmm.
        \_ um.  why is this on the motd?
           \_ why not?  you going to censor *this* too?  sheesh.  stfu. -!op
              \_ don't be hypersensitive.  I'm just wondering why.
                 \_ it's useful information for anyone wanting to know how
                    to make a salami sandwich.
                    \_ not really.  It's just and opinion.  personally,
                       i think the op is full of shit.

11/4    I'm reading some men's magazine that claims that men have twice as
        many partners as women. That is fine except they didn't have any
        reference and didn't explain how they conducted their survey.
        I think it's totally flawed. Suppose there are 10 men and 10 women
        in some planet (50/50 equal sex distribution), and 1 man has sex
        with 10 female partners (the other 9 are hermits) and each women
        has sex with that 1 male partner, then ON AVERAGE, wouldn't each
        person have just one heterosexual partner? And if you change the
        numbers, in the end, ON AVERAGE, it'll still be the same? Do you
        see something wrong fundamentally with that claim? Few factors
        that may contribute to the flaw:
        1) Men inflate data, women deflate
        2) Men have sex with lots of hookers but the survey doesn't ask the
           hookers, driving the average up
        3) Gay sex included in the survey
        4) The survey reports MEDIAN, not average
        What do you think is the more likely factor?
        \_ The answer is that journalists don't understand the most basic
           math and in the case of this survey they're just repeating what
           they think they heard someone else say.  There are few people on
           the planet less educated or less intelligent than the typical
           journalist.
        \_ There are a few women who have a lot of partners. They aren't
           necessarily hookers and the only one using the word average is you.
           \_ Since he didn't provide a url for the survey you have no idea
              if the survey uses the word "average" or why he's using that
              word.  From OP's use of the word, it makes sense that the
              survey or more likely the reporters who munged the report on
              the survey used the word.
              \_ Maybe he needs to tell us what it said then.

11/4    Washington Post:
        "Only one in seven Americans agrees with President Bush's assertion
        that the conflict in Iraq is the most important fight in the war on
        terrorism, according to a Washington Post-ABC poll."
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A857-2003Nov4.html

11/4    Motd Movie Critic, will you do us the honors of reviewing the
        matrix 3?  Thanks.  -MMC #1 fan
        \_ who cares.  the only reviews that matter are the ones posted
           on http://ter.air0day.com - danh
        \_ Matrix >> Matrix 3 >> Matrix 2
        \_ Agent Smith is really Neo's father!
        \_ Agent Anderson is really Neo's father!
           \_ Search your feelings.  You know this to be true.
              \_ I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate
           \_ Whoops made a mistake, that was supposed to be M2. In this one
              we find out Trinity is really Neo's sister.
              \_ But... we had sex during that rave!
                 \_ I get a hard-on fantasizing about Neo and Trinity being
                    brother/sister having an incestuous relationship.
                    \_ First time reading the motd?
                 \_ They are the last survivors and have to repopulate the
                    Earth with their inbred children. Half the movie is them
                    making out. But then we find out Neo was taken over by
                    Smith, who is actually both Neo's and Trinity's father.
                    \_ Then Rocco and Aurora show up and they have a big
                       four way which ends with Rocco doing Trinity in the
                    brother/sister having an incestuous relationship.
                    Earth with their inbred children. Half the movie is them
                    making out.
                       piledriver position.
                       \_ Have you been reading my diary?

11/5    Used market question (example: Speakers):
        Since speaker technology doesn't change that fast, and since
        more and more speakers are produced, will the price of used
        speakers tend to hold well?  Or will the price of used speakers
        go down because more speakers are produced (greater supply)?
        \_ It's called fucking ebay. Use it.
           \_ I was hoping for a theoretical discussion.
        \_ You also have to consider the rate at which speakers are destroyed
           and/or blown-out.

11/5    To the elitist fuck with bad taste in music and too much money
        to burn on stupid shit below: fuck you.  And fuck you hippie bastards
        as well.
        \_ Fucking FUCK, you fucking fuck fuck.  Fuck it!  You're fucked!
           \_ You forgot to tell him how much he sucks ass at sucking his own
              ass.

11/5    To the Garfunkel concert dude below. Your problem is not the other
        person. Your problem is YOU. When you go to low class events like
        pop music concert, football, basketball, baseball, and such, you
        expect low class people. If you want to avoid being in such a
        quagmire, avoid low class events at all cost, and instead, try out
        some of the finer things in life like going to SF Opera, listening to
        Chopin's Piano Concerto, playing golf, and other things. Good luck.
        \_ You know, I've been to the symphony and to a number of theatre
           events over the years, and I've had just as many issues with people
           being noisy and inconsiderate.  It's not a 'classiness' issue, man,
           no matter how much your pretentious self-image deigns that it must
           be so.
        \_ Have you ever listened to Simon and Garfunkel? It's like the
           pansiest music possible. You would expect manners at pansy events.
           And even at places w/ low class theater, like the movies, you
           should still be able to watch a movie w/o having to bring a
           baseball bat.
                \_ theatre's full of immature high school students. That's
                   why I prefer waiting till the movie's on DVD and watch
                   in the comfort of my home theatre (got a hi-lumen
                   hi-res projector with 8 cushy seats). The other advantage
                   is that you don't have to wait in line               -ops
                   \_ I wouldn't expect hs students going to see S&G.
        \_ you would expect better sort of people going to see Simon and
           Garfunkel
           \_ You mean people who don't talk and sit there like zombies? The
              OP has issues and probably bitches when people stand up at
              sporting events. --dim
              \_ Hell, I've got problems with people standing during sports
                 so to wave at the idiot friend on the cellphone calls or to
                 go to the snack bar, stands, and take a group poll of who
                 wants nachos during the action. Sit down, you freak.
              \_ how is an s&g concert that different from say, a movie or a
                 symphony? i think people can reasonably expect to be able
                 to listen without overly loud conversation in the background.
                 \_ It's still a "rock" concert. People talk. Some loudly. It's
                    a permissive society.

11/5    I won in Small Claims and the Defendant filed for an appeal. I got
        the new court date which will happen on 1/2/04. However, today I just
        got a new notice titled "Clerk's Notice of Continuance RE: Hearing"
        and the date is 2/27/04. Does that mean the date on 1/2 is canceled?
        \_ Should file to dismiss the appeal. Ask opposing council why
           a court should even consider an appeal. Are they offering new
           evidence?
                \_ how can this be done?
        \_ Yes.
        \_ Call the court clerk and explain and ask what your options are.  I
           wasn't even aware an appeal of a small claims judgement was
           possible but I guess it makes sense sort of.  Anyway, see if there's
           a way to file to dismiss or otherwise squash their whole thing and
           try to get any dates moved up because it looks like the person is
           just trying to delay in the hopes you'll give up and go away.
        \_ This means that he has asked the court to move the date out to
           2/27/04. Unless you are in a hurry, just show up that day.
           IANAL.

11/5    [ BUH-BYE. ]

11/4    When is the next election? I wanna vote for someone who'll undo the
        mess we're in, including: post-war mess, environment mess, economy,
        abortion, and everything else. Thanks.
        \_ California primaries are in March.  Federal Presidential Election
           is in October.  CA requires 15 days notice to register to vote,
                 \_ ???? Another person who suddenly became aware of politics
                    since Clinton.
           not sure what the national requirement is.
        \_ IFILE!  I mean, DEAN!
           \_ Don't you mean ED?!  ED! for president!  He's the standard!
        \_ Yeah, I trust you know who to pick when you don't even know when
           the next election is. Just how many years of politics did you
           study that you think a new President will magically "undo" the
           economy.

11/4    http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/05/offbeat.pornstar.tv.ap/index.html
        \_ http://csua.org/u/4wf

11/4    If you haven't read it already, you should:
        George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language," 1946
        http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

11/4    Uh, so this site makes the motd look grown up and respectable:
        http://grouphug.us

11/5    If anybody deserves the death penalty, it's this Green River
        Killer fucker. Why the hell can he just admit and not get the
        death penalty?? So, if someone just go out and start killing
        people, all they have to do is to admit and they won't get the
        death penalty? WTF? Is this the so called best criminal
        justice system in the world? This is so fucked up I think even
        the Chinese government can do better by putting a fucking
        bullet in this guy's head.
        \_ see, the Chinese government wouldn't give a crap about
           finding out what happened to all 48 women.  Justice is
           not just about punishing the guilty; it is also about
           protecting the innocent -- in this case, giving families
           of the deceased women some closure.
           \_ I am not so sure about this. There's far less crime in China,
              a country with hell a lot more people than the US, than here.
              All this because WE care about our people? I think not. the
              criminals are simply not afraid of the law here, period.
              \_ Far less crime in China?  Do you have any idea what you're
                 talking about?
                 \_ do YOU have any idea what you are talking about? ever
                    been to China?
                    \_ Ever been to the US?  Ever spent time here?  Or do you
                       just believe everything you see on television?
                    \_ you need to come beijing so our local boys can beat
                       you up and show you a thing or two about crimes in
                       china.
                       \_ don't need to go to China for that. There's PLENTY
                          of spots in EVERY FUCKING MAJOR US CITY that you
                          will get the crap beat out of you. You will NOT
                          find a city like east palo alto in China, they may
                          be poor, but poor != crime.
        \_ Because trials cost $.
        \_ No death penalty because all but 2 murders were not in a death
           penalty state.  He might get it for the 2 murders in Oregon, though.

11/5    Errors and Defects in Mann et. al. (1998) Proxy Data and Temperature
        History
        http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/trc.html
        \_ Hey look!  Its everyone's favorite crank!

11/4    I'm reading some men's magazine that claims that men have twice as
        many partners as women. That is fine except they didn't have any
        reference and didn't explain how they conducted their survey.
        \_ It's not fine.  In fact, it's mathematically impossible.
           Think about why the expected number of sexual partners of
           heterosexual men and women cannot be different.
        I think it's totally flawed. Suppose there are 10 men and 10 women
        in some planet (50/50 equal sex distribution), and 1 man has sex
        with 10 female partners (the other 9 are hermits) and each women
        has sex with that 1 male partner, then ON AVERAGE, wouldn't each
        person have just one heterosexual partner? And if you change the
        numbers, in the end, ON AVERAGE, it'll still be the same? Do you
        see something wrong fundamentally with that claim? Few factors
        that may contribute to the flaw:
        1) Men inflate data, women deflate
        2) Men have sex with lots of hookers but the survey doesn't ask the
           hookers, driving the average up
        3) Gay sex included in the survey
        4) The survey reports MEDIAN, not average
        What do you think is the more likely factor?
        \_ The answer is that journalists don't understand the most basic
           math and in the case of this survey they're just repeating what
           they think they heard someone else say.  There are few people on
           the planet less educated or less intelligent than the typical
           journalist.
        \_ There are a few women who have a lot of partners. They aren't
           necessarily hookers and the only one using the word average is you.
           \_ Since he didn't provide a url for the survey you have no idea
              if the survey uses the word "average" or why he's using that
              word.  From OP's use of the word, it makes sense that the
              survey or more likely the reporters who munged the report on
              the survey used the word.
              \_ Maybe he needs to tell us what it said then.
        \_ I believe in the Chris Rock answer. "That one night with that
           guy at the club? He don't count."