Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2003/4/10 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:28054 Activity:high
4/9     Just seen in a newspaper (USA Today?  SJ Mercury?):
        FoxNews has largest share during war, then CNN, then MSNBC.
        \_ Old news.
        \_ U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A!!!
        \_ Although I've been a Fox news guy for a while I think the NBC
           coverage was better overall than Fox, CNN or Al Jazeera.  I think
           someone at NBC is finally 'getting it'.
2003/4/10 [Reference/Tax] UID:28055 Activity:high
4/9     What is "itemizing"?  thanks.
        \_ Google for "itemizing"; the first few hits have good explanations.
        \_ If you're referring to taxes, it means "itemizing" your deductions,
           instead of taking the standard deduction.  Do it if your deductions
           are bigger than the standard deduction, but you'll need your
           receipts.
           \_ Anyone earning over 50k or so will benefit from itemizing just
              due to CA's high income tax rates.  And most of your vehicle
              reg is also an item, though those are low for the moment.
              \_ I make 49.2 and itemizing doesn't do diddly. You need to own
                 a house or run your home office as a business or some such.
                 \_ to review, "50k or so" > 49.2.  I don't have a house or
                    a business, been itemizing since 1997.
2003/4/10-6/15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:28056 Activity:moderate
4/9     Anybody knows what's up with alumni.eecs?
        \_ prob upgrading h/w and/or s/w again. http://alumni.eecs.berkeley.edu
           points to a fresh install of apache.
        \_ apparently it got rooted.
           \_ again?  what's up, used to be alumni and ucsee were reliable.
           \_ I thought ucsee and alumni.eecs had a power outage for
              several days?
        \_ Why do people ask this shit here?  Go find the alumni.eecs admins
           and email them.  No one here knows anything about non-csua systems
           and almost as little about csua systems.
           \_ because some ppl are members of both groups.
              \_ so what?  There are other csuaers that are members of my bird
                 watching society.  I don't ask them bird questions on the
                 motd.
                 \_ take a look at the array of questions that get asked on
                    the motd, and the array of responses.  I don't remember
                    one in particular, but i'll bet bird questions have been
                    answered here before.
2003/4/10 [Uncategorized] UID:28057 Activity:nil
4/9     Chinese dude tears down Saddam's statue:
        http://csua.org/u/cd0
2003/4/10 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:28058 Activity:high
4/9     Stupid question: as I grew older, I have found that straight
        ANSI C is one of most portable computer language out there.
        Why C is more portable than C++ ?
        \_ Because almost every single operating system in use today is
           written in C (not C++).
        \_ Compare K&R and Stroustrup.
                \_ why can't you answer him?
                   \_ You see, K&R is really thin, and Stroustrup is very big.
                      \_ what does that have to do with getting old?
                         \_ once you acknowledge it's not a troll you will
                            see the point he's making.
                            \_ you can make me understand, but you cannot
                               make me care.
        \_ Consider that there is no C++ compiler that supports all
           features of C++ according to the standard.  C is a much
           simpler, /smaller/ language.
           \_ Comeau C++ supports the full ISO C++ standard including export.
              VC++ 2003 will support nearly all of it.  I don't know where gcc
              stands right now.
        \_ and almost no C++ compiler supports modern (new ansi) C++
           fully. It's a zoo out there!
        \_ what is more portable than straight ansi c?
           \_ yo momma so fat, it's definitely not her
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28059 Activity:nil
4/9     A reminder of how Israel was founded
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2930279.stm
        \_ From your own link, "Reports suggest that an Israeli-made grenade
           was found near the gates of the school and went off when students
           touched it."  And tonight's lesson on troll detection: if the OP
           didn't read their own link and then lies outright about the link
           topic (usually on a hot button issue), then the troll factor will
           sky rocket.  Nice try trollboy.  No cookie.
2003/4/10 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:28060 Activity:high
4/9     Right now I have tons of snippets like
        sprintf(errmsg, "Error %d: invalid type %d at %d\n", 1, myType, time);
        QueueError(errmsg);
        Is it possible to define a macro to take an arbitrary # of arguments--
        #define ERROR(x) sprintf(globErrMsg, x); QueueError(globErrMsg);
        Or will the x in the macro just take everything up to the first comma?
        \_ #define ERR(args...) {sprintf(g_errMsg, args);QueueError(g_errMsg);}
        \_ Yes, if you use recent gcc or other C99-ish compilers, no for
           older ones.
        \_ A reliable method for doing this is to write a function that
           uses a va_list and vsnprintf:

           #include <stdarg.h>
           void Error (char *err, size_t sz, const char *fmt, ...) {
                va_list vl;
                if (err == null || sz <= 0)
                  return;
                memset(err,'\0',sz);
                va_start(vl,fmt);
                vsnprintf(err,sz,fmt,vl);
                va_end(vl);
                QueueError(err);
           }

           BTW, You should really avoid sprintf since it doesn't have a
           good way to check thesize of the input buffer.
           \_ thanks for the code, I'll give that a try today.  One question--
              this is a real-time application, so there are a few common stdio
              calls I use regularly and the rest are viewed warily.  Are there
              any non-constant performance implications for using vsnprintf?
              I can handle a +foo hit, but foo*strlen(err) might be pushing it.
              thanks.
           \_ that only matters if the content of your variables comes from
              input.
           \_ thanks for the code, I'll give that a try today.  One
              question-- this is a real-time application, so there are
              a few common stdio calls I use regularly and the rest
              are viewed warily.  Are there any non-constant
              performance implications for using vsnprintf? I can
              handle a +foo hit, but foo*strlen(err) might be pushing
              it. thanks.
                \_ vsnprintf calls vfprintf internally. In most cases
                   sprintf also calls vfprintf internally. The same
                   non-constant performance issues you may have with
                   your implementation of sprintf will most likely
                   apply to your implementation of vsnprintf.
           \_ that only matters if the content of your variables comes
              from input.
                \_ Program defensively.
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28061 Activity:nil
4/9     to that guy who is so upset the media keeps covering
        the deaths of journalists, here's a BBC guy who
        thinks the Iraqis did it:
        http://csua.org/u/cce - danh
        \_ It's not hard to find out if US really didn't do it and
           want to clear its name.  I mean, they have the control of
           the hotel and can easily to find the fragment of the explosive
           shell.

           By the way, Al Jazeera's office was hit by a missile.  Considered
           Al Jazeera's office was on US target list in the past, considered
           that US has overwhelming control of its proximity, it is unlikely
           that it was the works of Iraqi.
           \_ Idiot.  We also dropped 3 missiles into Iran and at least 1 in
              Turkey.  Must be we're at war with Iran and Turkey, too, huh?
              It's a *war*.  Shit happens in war.  It isn't a nice near clean
              little ps/2 shoot em up.  People die.  Even people no one was
              aiming at.  I've got sympathy for the civilians too stupid or
              unable to leave the city beforehand.  The journalists?  Fuck
              'em.  They're vultures.  We didn't kill nearly enough of them.
              There were Iraqis all over the city at the time.  It *very*
              easily could have been Iraqis.  Your "considering" is armchair
              bullshit.  I don't know who it was but it doesn't take a brain
              the size of a planet to figure out it could have been either
              side.  Your attempt to look like an intellectual while really
              just showing your "hate America" bias is transparent.
                                \_ just a guess, 4 years ago you were
                                   probably pretty rabidly anti-the government
                                   in charge and made all sorts of wild
                                   accusations about abuses.  So why was that
                                   not hating america?
              \_ We'll be at war with Iran soon enough.
        \_ yet *more* journalist death coverage?  enough already!  will
           this journalistic narcissism ever stop?
                \_ ok now you're just being dumb and you're no longer
                   funny.  please start spouting off about
                   ride bike/use gnu-linux, thanks.
2003/4/10 [Transportation/Car] UID:28062 Activity:nil
4/9     While the truck bumper post below might have been a troll, it reminds
        me of an incident a while ago in which a friend helping me to haul
        a piece of furniture from the store hit my neighbor's car in my
        driveway.  My friend was driving and I wasn't in his car.  It was
        entirely his fault for not seeing a car clearly parked behind him,
        but should I have compensated for him since he was helping me?
        \_ No, your friend probably feels like a dumbass.
        \_ Miss Manners would say that you should offer to compensate him,
           and he should refuse, and then you should offer again, and he
           should refuse again.  -tom
           \_ obchinesecustomsdiscussion
        \_ You'd have no legal obligation but as his friend you should offer
           to pay as much of it as you reasonably can depending on how much
           the damage is.  If you care less about his friendship than the
           value of the damage then you can make that choice too if you're
           into burning bridges.
2003/4/10 [Uncategorized] UID:28063 Activity:nil
4/10    GAM ISO GWM. I'm a submissive bottom in my late 20s looking for an
        aggressive top.  I'm attracted to white males with a hairy
        muscular body.  I'm hairless myself.  Contact me!  -gwbush
        \_ aspo, do you want to show this guy what it means to be an
           aggressive top?
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28064 Activity:insanely high
4/9     It is sickening that the Iraqi people who welcome the imperialist
        hegemon instead of rising up to fight to protect the Leader of the
        Arab nation and throw off the yoke of their Western oppressors who
        will only enslave them, exploit their resources, and place them under
        the control of a military dictator.  Don't they understand they were
        much better as a free Arab nation.  I shed tears for the Iraqi people
        who lived in a free republic only days ago and are now slaves.
        [this is what you extreme leftists sound like to other people]
        \_ Nice try Trollboy. Go back under the bridge. -gwbush
        \_ Silly troll, the knee-jerk liberal reaction you seek is to be
           found out on Sproul Plaza.  Go thither with your mocking scree,
           that they may jackboot you in the head. -gwbush
           \_ He shoots!  He scores!  The crowds go wild!  Troll leads 1:0!
                        -gwbush
        \_ nope, just to you
           \_ as an extreme leftist how would you know how you look to other
              people?
       \_ Why should I care how one extremist views another, trollbot?
          \_ Sorry, you're knocking on the wrong door.  I voted for Clinton
             twice.
2003/4/10-11 [Computer/HW/Memory] UID:28065 Activity:high
4/9     Any thoughts on why yahoo messenger and MSN messenger take such a
        large memory footprint? (10MB/15MB, respectively) - that seems
        unreasonably large?
        \_ Have you seen all the stuff that comes with YIM? Environments,
           sounds, webcam, etc. I'm not surprised it's bloatware.
           Incidentally, ICQLite rewls... 1.3MB footprint.
           \_ wallall: 63K
              \_ walking over to the next cubicle and hold an actual
                 conversation: 2 calories
                 \_ what is this "conversation" and how much does it
                    weigh?
                 \_ you need to upgrade to tin can + string technology.
                 \_ this is california.  we drive to the next cube in our
                    hummers.
                    \_ No, I get a hummer in the next cube from your mom.
                    \_ No, that's Los Angeles.  In Silicon Valley, you write
                       a long, elaborate email to the guy sitting next to you.
                        \_ I though you im or irc'ed the guy sitting next
                           to you.
                        \_ of course. he stinks. you dont want to smell him.
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28066 Activity:very high
4/9     Ignorant Arab Americans don't understand Al Jazeera was always
        on their side and just trying to tell the truth.
        http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/04/09/sprj.irq.dearborn.rally/index.html
        \_ Weapons grade plutonium found in huge underground area
           beneath Iraqi nuclear complex.  Fox News Channel was always on
           our side and just trying to tell the truth.
           http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83821,00.html
                \_ Unfortunately Fox is trigger happy with reporting,
                   so we'll have to wait and see.c
        \_ U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A!!!
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:28067 Activity:high
4/10    We have a lot of troops there in Iraq now.  Why not just keep going
        and move into Iran and Syria?  We will move in there eventually but
        it'll cost a lot more if we have to pull the troops back into the US
        and move them there again in a year or so from now.
        \_ Why do we need to invade Iran and Syria?
        \_ I don't think its necessary.  The credibility of the US has been
           reestablished, and we are in much stronger negotiating position
           with these regimes.  I believe the threat will be sufficient to
           achieve compliance.
           \_ how has credibility been reestablished? by all those wmd's
              that were found in saddam's palaces?
              \_ Street cred
        \_ Saudi Arabia is the best target right now and the most likely to
           breed terrorists. Plus the oil. Iran is actually making some
           progress towards democracy.
        \_ Let's take it one step further and just go invade Canada
           and Mexico, too, while we're at it. They're definitely nearby.
           \_ We should take all of Canada except make Quebec independent.
              Those Frenchies don't have any oil.
        \_ Of course, Patton wanted to take out the Red Army after WWII.
           Who knows what might have happened then?
           \_ Morally, there is no justification for not doing so. We let
              Stalin keep the part of Poland he invaded and impose totalitarian
              rule over a score of nations.
        \_ The real world doesn't play out like Risk(tm).
        \_ U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A!!!
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28068 Activity:high
4/10    One of my "liberal" coworkers was against the war, and now that we've
        "liberated" the Iraqis, she's arguing about how great it is that they
        no longer have this oppressive regime that would torture its people
        and so forth. So do most supporters of the war think that it is about
        a) Regime change for the Iraqis:
        b) Nat'l Security:
        c) Financial Gain for Americans as a whole:
        \_ Few people doubted that US would win militarily without too much
           trouble.  I personally predicted 2 weeks when asked.  I was a
           little too optimistic.  I have always found the WMD and Al Queda
           link accusations weak in evidence and the response disproportionate.
           Regime change for the benefit of Iraqis is the only possibly
           legitimate justification for killing tens of thousands of Iraqis.
           However, regime change as justification is illegal under
           international laws and may become a dangerous precedent, so the
           WMD excuse.  I hope things work out well.
           \_ Really?  It was just a couple weeks ago when pundits were
              muttering about fedayeen, too few troops, and I thought I
              even heard talk of quagmire.  For example (abstract only),
              http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0D1EFD35540C748EDDAA0894DB404482
              \_ That's relatively speaking, like arguing whether Cal's
                 football team would lose 52-6 or 42-10, and the opposing
                 side's coach telling his players not to take Cal lightly.
                 \_ did you even read the link?  to quote: "It is not likely
                    to change the outcome of the war, but it will prolong the
                    fighting, make it more costly for his adversaries and
                    profoundly affect the way it is seen in other Arab
                    countries and around the world."  now in light of this
                    quote, is your Cal analogy fair?
                 \_ How about this?
                    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34229-2003Mar26
                    \_ What about it?  Army guys playing down
                       expectations and painting a more formidable enemy to
                       cover themselves in case things don't go as well as
                       planned?  What do you expect them to say?  "This is
                       a turkey shoot." ?
                       \_ Again, did you even bother to read the link?
                          \_ Err ... yes.  Did you?  Also, try using http://csua.org,
                             at least for the long nytimes link above.
        \_ It is about A and B.  C is a long term side effect but in the
           short term wars cost money.
        \_ U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A!!!
2003/4/10-11 [Uncategorized] UID:28069 Activity:high
4/10    Question related to the ellipsis discussion below: what is the
        practical difference between using myprintf(char *fmt, ...) and
        myprintf(char *fmt, va_list list)? They seem to do the same thing.
        \_ va_list is necessary if you want your function to be called by
           other variable-argument functions.
           See http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/q15.12.html
           --jameslin
        \_ K&R:  func(char *fmt, va_list list)
           ANSI: func(char *fmt, ...)
           Use the ANSI style.
           \_ This person is completely wrong.  va_list is ANSI for
              passing a vararg list.  Btw pokemon sapphire is great. -pld
2003/4/10 [Uncategorized] UID:28070 Activity:nil
4/9     [If you're going to delete the amusing comments on your troll,
         you lose your troll.]
2003/4/10 [Finance/CC, Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:28071 Activity:moderate
4/11    Barefoot and pregnant: the results of clean living in UT:
        http://csua.org/u/cd6
        \_ Sigh.  Not the result of clean living.  Interestingly, the LDS church
           actually teaches the importance of living within your means,
           avoiding debt unless absolutely necessary, and to consider bankruptcy
           only as a last option. -emarkp
2003/4/10 [Reference/Military] UID:28072 Activity:high
4/11    For you military types.  Is there a material in existence that
        could practically protect military helicopters from small-arms
        fire? -allenp
        \_ Yes.  Napalm.  -John
           \_ Ha Ha. Hello John, Napalming a whole battlefield is
              *NOT* practical.  I was wondering if armored helicopters
              exist, or do they cost too much or move too slow. -allenp
              \_ in Vietnam, they first laid fire over much of the battle
                 field, then they let the Hueys come after them.  Cobra
                 helicopter escorts.
                 \_ I stand corrected. -allenp
        \_ Yes, aluminum.
           \_ Aluminum?  How does it help? -allenp
              \_ It absorbs the ballistic energy, like like any kind
                 of armor. A 7.62mm bullet will not penetrate 12" of
                 of armor. A 7.62mm bullet will not penetrate 2" of
                 aluminum. I guess they are using ceramic more now:
                 http://www.ceradyne.com/apdef.htm#helicopterarmor
        \_ many helicopter gunships do have armor.  The Hind, Apache, ...
           \_ Apache armor:
              http://people.howstuffworks.com/apache-helicopter5.htm
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28073 Activity:nil
4/11    Do you really think Democracy will work in Iraq?  What if everyone
        votes to have another form of government?
2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28074 Activity:nil
4/10    Saddam's Yacht drifting.  According to maritime law, it's yours for
        the taking if you can salvage it.
        http://csua.org/u/cdb  sell it on ebay for millions of dollars
        and then brag about it on the motd.
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>