11/2    From Eric S. Raymond's website:

        As an American and native English-speaker myself, I have previously
        been reluctant to suggest this, lest it be taken as a sort of cultural
        imperialism. But several native speakers of other languages have
        urged me to point out that English is the working language of the
        hacker culture and the Internet, and that you will need to know it to
        function in the hacker community.

        This is very true. Back around 1991 I learned that many hackers who
        have English as a second language use it in technical discussions even
        when they share a birth tongue; it was reported to me at the time that
        English has a richer technical vocabulary than any other language and
        is therefore simply a better tool for the job. For similar reasons,
        translations of technical books written in English are often
        unsatisfactory (when they get done at all).

        Linus Torvalds, a Finn, comments his code in English (it apparently
        never occurred to him to do otherwise). His fluency in English has
        been an important factor in his ability to recruit a worldwide
        community of developers for Linux. It's an example worth following.
        \_ Ok, I think most of us knew this but even if not, what's your
           point?  Was this supposed to be educational?  Upsetting?  Bait?
           I'm willing to play along, I just need to know my role.  Thanks.
           \_ I'm just sick of people posting to the motd in broken English,
              and then bitching when people call them on it.  See below.
              \_ you know, if you are critical of ALL grammatically incorrect
                 post on motd, I wouldn't bitch as much.  Yet, you, like good
                 number of others, selectively tolerate one form of
                 grammatic error, while critical and censoring another.
                 If you think my grammatic error is somewhat inferior than
                 those improper English posted by the native speaker or
                 European decent, then, please go fuck yourself.
                 \_ You know why it pisses me off?  I'll tell you.  It's
                    because I work with fuckers like you.  I've worked with
                    plenty of people who can come straight over from PRC
                    and speak and write clear, understandable, if slightly
                    stilted English and can always get their point accross.
                    Then there are people who no matter how long they're here,
                    their English is always not just bad, but actually a
                    danger to those around them.  When you're working
                    with things that can kill you, you don't want to wonder
                    wether the guy next to you is going to be able to
                    communicate in any useful way or not.  I have learned
                    by dealing with fucktards like you that the *reason* that
                    some poeple in engineering are like this is not that
                         \_ people (learn to spell you moron)
                            \_ Ooh, the previous poster writes a 290 word
                               diatribe, makes a typo in "people" once out of
                               four times, and you call him out on it.
                               Congratulations.  Oh, and it's "Learn to spell,
                               you moron."
                    they are from one country from another or that they are
                    dumb.  It is an arrogance that infects the culture of
                    engineering like a cancer.  That arrogance assumes that
                    if you are good at book learning you don't have to be
                    able to communicate.  These people are always second rate
                    engineers anyway, because their work is no good to anyone
                    if they can't communicate.  Every nation in the world
                    has jackasses like this, including of course, the US.  The
                    difference is that fuckers like this who are from other
                    countries are just easier to spot and pose a bigger physical
                    danger in an emergency.  And yes, I can speak Mandarin
                    better than your English, and no, I'm not Chinese.
                    You can cry "racism"! all you like here, but when you go
                    back to China and don't ever get promoted because of your
                    shitty communication skills, don't blame Cal.  At least
                    one of us tried to straighten your dumb ass out.
                        \_ I work with people from China, Russia, Korea, and
                           Vietnam all day - but the worst English writing
                           comes from the American-born-and-educated "native"
                           speakers in our group.
                           \_ Nope.  I work with people from China, Russia, and
                              Vietnam, and they can barely communicate.  It
                              drives me nuts.
                 \_ Dude... I am not the original poster, but I have this to
                    say.  Yours is the most borken English ever heard around
                    here.  Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia, you top them all.
                    You, sir, are the king of mean-spirited linguistic
                    mediocrity.
                 \_ The world isn't black and white.  There are degress.  Also,
                    this is a casual social hangout, not the classroom.  Thus,
                    common usage English is appropriate, whereas broken ESL
                    English is not.  Lah!
                    \_ Your use of "lah" is improper as per the Singlish
                       standard.  Please lah, try not to use "lah" if you
                       don't know how to use it.  It breaks my heart to see
                       a beautiful thing like "lah" improperly used.
                       \_ LAH! I've played online games for years with all the
                          .sg boys and I know the standard: LAH! can and should
                          be used at all times.  Any sentence that doesn't
                          contain at least 1 random usage of LAH! is
                          non-standard and subject to ridicule, LAH!
                          \_ All I can say is that you are wrong, and
                             your language learning fu is weak.  "Lah"
                             needs to have proper placement within a
                             sentence, and it doesn't work in all
                             sentences.