Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:28 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/5/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:30465 Activity:high 50%like:12734
5/27    Why is soda so SLOW? like 1/2 million root perl processes.
        \_ root needs to be squished!!!
        \_ I think that's spam assasin.
        \_ Is there some way to limit the number of spam assassins that can be
           forked off?
           \_ ps | kill
        \_ Why does everyone send their mail to soda anyway?  I've never even
           considered using soda as my mail server.
           \_ ps | kill
           \_ Basically because it's permenant.  I can tell my friends to
              email me at Soda, and in 20 years they'll still be able to.
              \_ I would not bet on that.  The university offers at least two
                 other services which are more likely to be available to alums
                 in 20 years than soda is.  -tom
                 \_ What are those?  (Plus, It wouldn't kill me if soda
                    went away, it's just better than switching web mail
                    accounts, or switching accounts with jobs)
                    \_ and <DEAD><DEAD>.  -tom
           \_ because I'd rather be able to ssh in to Soda and use pine/mutt/mh
              whatever than to use some lame web-based email service.
        \_ Ok, why not just run your mail dns/mail/etc server?  It's not hard.
           \_ Unreliable.
              \_ It is?  How is it more reliable to have a student run it off
                 donated hardware on a shared machine full of nut cases?
           \_ Running my own mail server means that I have to administer it.
              Do you really want me, who doesn't know much about running
              mail servers or security, running my very own potential open
              \_ You know what an open relay is.  By default mail servers
                 ship closed these days.  I trust you can figure it out.
2004/5/28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30466 Activity:nil
5/27    Dubai, modeled after HK and Spore, is thriving.  Model for the
        Arab world?
2004/5/28-29 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30467 Activity:high
5/27    In what ways are FreeBSD superior to a good Linux distro?
        \_ Why do you hate Windows?
           \_ Why do you hate Linus?
        \_ *BSD has a better IP stack.
           \_ In what way?
           \_ Aren't they the same now?
              \_ Yeah, because Linux copied Unix! --SCO
              \_ They are? When did Linux change it?
        \_ there's an actual CVS tree for the kernel?
          \_ setting up software raid in freebsd still sucks
             \_ software raid sucks everywhere.  Real men use hardware.
                After the third time your linux kernel drops a drive on a
                whim, you'll learn.
             \_ there are nice tools for setting up software raid in
                linux.  freebsd uses this thing called "vi"
                actually when your machine fails, there's this thing
                called "ed"
                \_ Solaris LVM and Irix's lvm are way better.
                   \_ we're not comparing against Solaris and Irix.  Why does
                      this keep getting deleted?
                \_ Does anyone use Veritas Volume Manager for Linux?
                   I bet it works fine, since all the other Veritas products
                   I have used rocked. But it is not free.
             \_ To be fair, you can't compare vinum (freebsd sw raid) to
                linux sw raid; the featuresets aren't the same.  Vinum is
                more equivalent to EVMS (
        \_ *BSD has a highly organized and structured "way" of doing things.
           On every BSD box you always know where to look for config files,
           how to install/remove new software.  Things don't radically change
           or require reading through obscure and often outdated HOW-TO pseudo
           documents.  Linux is good if you're not the admin or you *need*
           the cutting edge.  If you just want your machines to work and never
           want to touch them again, get *BSD.  --linux admin by day
           \_ it seems like you're answering the wrong question. The question
              wasn't about *BSD vs * Linux. It was FreeBSD vs a [one] good
              Linux distro. And, BTW I use RH/Fedora/RHEL and I consider them
              fairly well structured too. I know where the config files or
              say init scripts are support to be. And I prefer their packages
              (when they exist) to the FreeBSD ports.
              \_ Really?  You prefer RH?  To *anything*?  RH is the garbage of
                 the *nix world.  I'd take just about any other *nix, free or
                 commercial over RH for almost anything.  Is that just because
                 you know RH best so you're just used to the pain like Windows
                 admins and users?
                 \_ I don't prefer RH for absolutely everything but it works
                    more than well enough for my type of environment (computer
                    labs, computing clusters, servers that support all that,
                    etc) and I definitely prefer it for this type of job than
                    say FreeBSD or Solaris. I have used Debian and I have
                    my reasons for not choosing either Debian or FreeBSD.
                    Besides, from my personal observations, the FreeBSD
                    afficionados who tend to dismiss RedHat as a piece of
                    crap usually don't know how to run a RedHat system
                    or say even use rpm properly and just keep repeating
                    the anti-Linux FUD they see on *BSD mailing lists or
           \_ The organization goes beyond that, too.  The ports tree/packages
              are awesome.  Maintaining a BSD box is infinitely easier than,
              say, redhat.
              \_ Ports suck.  I like the idea in principle, but the
                 implementation of ports is by far the worst feature of
                 FreeBSD, in my opinion. -- ilyas
              \_ I disagree.  try upgrading openssl on FreeBSD.  you know,
                 getting /usr/lib/libssl.* upgraded, not just plopping down
                 new files in /usr/local/*.  Much easier on RedHate (as much
                 as I bitch and moan about it).  Just grab an RPM or even
                 an SRPM if you want to tweak things, and it goes in.  --Jon
                 \_ cd /usr/src/contrib/openssl
                    less INSTALL
                 \_ This is why the port is there.  So you don't have to
                    buildworld on every openssl bug report.
                    Not to mention when you get the new rpm (if there is
                    one), it always seems to break some other package because
                    some internal in openssl was changed.
              \_ redhat isn't great of a linux example, IMO.  pick a
                 distribution that isn't broken (gentoo, debian)
           \_ Every BSD box?  Really?  You think NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD all
              have the same way to install new software and place config
              \ Compared to say redhat versus gentoo versus suse?  you bet.
                \_ presumably, you're not running redhat, gentoo, and suse.
                   You should be comparing a distribution to a BSD branch.
              \_ On a linux box, applications dump all over the filesystem.
                 Changing network settings by creating files in /proc/* is
                 fucking idiotic, for example.  Documentation for linux is
                       \_ man sysctl
                          \_ that's not what the docs say to do.
                             \_ I believe that was already covered by the next
                                statement about "out of date".
                 out of date, if it exists at all.  I haven't used netbsd in a
                       \_ point taken
                 while but for open and free: (cd /usr/ports/foo/appname ; make
                 install) is pretty straight forward.  No rpm hell.  No
                       \_ rpms suck ass... rpms != linux
                       \_ emerge, apt-get
                          \_ What does apt have that assures you you're not
                             installing trojaned code?
                             \_ apt works with rpm
                             \_ signatures in rpms, debsigs
                 wondering if the binaries I'm downloading were corrupted.  BSD
                 just works.  You have some counter examples?
                 \_ how do you know that the source you're compling from
                    ports wasn't corrupted?
                    \_ The ports directory has MD5 checksums of the source
                       tarballs.  Unless your ports tree is corrupt, you'll
                       be warned if you download a corrupt source tarball.
                       \_ well OK then, how do you know that your MD5 checksums
                          of the source tarballs are accurate?
                          \_ You got them when you installed your OS.  If they
                             are fucked, bad ports are the least of your
                             \_ You have to re-get them when the ports MD5s
                                change, right?
2004/5/28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:30468 Activity:moderate
5/27    Rooted!
        \_ Why do you hate Wesley Crusher?
           \_ Why not?
2004/5/28 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30469 Activity:very high
5/27    How do you figure the recent terror alert was bogus and non descript
        when they released names and photos of 7 people they're looking for?
        Isn't that *exactly* what we should all want from a terror alert?  Or
        did you want something like, "Don't go to the baseball game at the
        stadium this sunday because the following 7 people will destroy it at
        precisely 7:03pm localtime with 5.8kg of WMD materials with composed
        of the following compounds:, x,y,z"?
        \_ It came from Ashcroft, not from the Homeland Security Dept. as
           required by law.  It contained "no new information" according to
           a number of quoted analysts, law enforcement, and legislative
           people.  The BOLO announcement about those 7 was a re-release.
           \_ It came from Ashcroft so we should ignore it and give it no
              value and rag on the admin for it?  Okey, dokey!  Brilliant!
              You keep reading those laws while the rest of us keep an eye out
              for people trying to kill us.
              \_ Way to ignore everything i said.  fucktard.  Tom Ridge
                 came out saying "Uh, asscrack say what?"  BY LAW, these
                 announcements are supposed to come out of the DHS.  DHS
                 people got really huffy after this one, too.
                 \_ fuck tard? Yes, that's a way to win converts.  Poor tom got
                    his toes stepped on so that makes the warning useless?  You
                    are a true genius!  A partisan of the darkest sort.  Win
                    at all costs, huh?
                    \_ Are you changing any behavior because of this
                       announcement?  Is your local police department?
                       This was a purely political play.  You haven't
                       addressed anything I said.
                       \_ If I see one of them which is unlikely I'd report
                          it.  I have better odds of spotting one now that I've
                          seen them and their names than I did if it wasn't
                          announced.  I haven't asked my local PD.  Maybe they
                          are.  Maybe some highway cop will notice when he
                          pulls one over for a traffic stop.  I've addressesed
                          everything you've said.  Until now you've
                          focussed on who made the announcement which is
                          totally pointless.  No one but you or some other
                          ultra partisan hack gives a damn which government
                          flunky holds the press conference.
        \_ Yes, anything less than that is Bush lying to us.  He KNOWS he
           KNEW about 9/11, and he knows about the next terror attack!
           The CIA is reading the terrorists minds!  They used to do that
           to me too, until I got this great hat...
           \_ Did you make it yourself or buy it on the net?  I want them to
              stop putting thoughts into my head, too!
              \_ Hey wait, on second thought how can I trust you not to send
                 me to some fbi run site?  Or how do I even know I can trust
                 myself enough to go to a good site if you're legit?
           \_ My girlfriend works at the FBI and says the people working the
              phone on a night shift really *do* get calls from people
              complaining the FBI put microphones in their teeth and could you
              please tell your extraterrestrials to stop tailing me.
              \_ Man, I wonder if I can get a job there?  That's rad.
                 No, actually if I wanted to meet crazy people, I could
                 just be a bus driver.
                 \_ Only agents get to man the phones at night.  And agents
                    have to work 60-hour weeks.
                    \_ Do they still require a law degree?
                       \_ No.  They require a 4-year degree and prefer you to
                          know another language and have some law-enforcement
                          \_ I watched every episode of CHiPs and Starskey and
                             Hutch when I was a kid.
2004/5/28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30470 Activity:nil
5/27    This is an EXTENSION to Kais Motd, 24 Hour Motd Archive and Diff
        are accessible here:                    -kchang
2004/5/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30471 Activity:very high
5/27    NYPress report asks editorial writer to go to Iraq to look for all the
        good things that are happening there.
        \_ Summary: smart ass 'journalist' offers to send John Q. Reader to
           Iraq to report on all the good things going on as long as he goes
           unarmed, unescorted and wears tshirt with a target on it.  Yeah,
           this convinced me that there isn't anything good going on in the
           entire country.  Well, ok, he admits that maybe one day some Iraqi
           woman might have learned to bake that day.  So instead of answering
           the reader's question about why only bad things get reported from
           Iraq, he wastes 2 pages fluffing his own ego trying to look clever.
           \_ Why do you hate the flag?
              \_ Why do you hate white people?
           \_ It is clever, and funny, and a little sadistic.
              \_ No, it isn't.  It is condescending and stupid.  For instance,
                 this journalist isn't treating this Justin fellow as a
                 customer (which is really what he is).
              \_ Yeah, I would've thought that was clever in 8th grade
                 too.  -jrleek
                 \_ It's still clever.
                    \_ If you're a moron or a partisan child, yeah -- it's top
                    \_ Not even in 8th grade.  "You made a valid point so I'm
                       going to blow you off and mock you and ask you to do
                       something dangerous which isn't necessary to do to
                       prove your point but it makes me look clever when I
                       preach to the choir".  If you hate Bush no matter what
                       he says or does and you think the media is part of some
                       vast right wing business controlled conspiracy then
                       you'll find it clever.
                       \_ If you love Bush no matter what he says or does and
                          you think the media is part of some vast left-wing
                          conspiracy then you'll think "the media isn't being
                          positive enough about what's happening in Iraq" is
                          a "valid point."
                          \_ The complaint that the media never reports
                             anything positive (if they can avoid it) is
                             hardly new, or exclusive to the Bush
                             supporters.  The correct answer in this case
                             is, "It bleeds it leads."  It has almost
                             nothing to do with politics.  But this silly
                             little piece of infantile sludge certainly
                             made it that way. -jrleek
                             \_ what positive stuff is being hidden from us?
                                did someone cure cancer and get ignored?
                                did israelis and palestinians stop killing
                                each other? did india and pakistan stop
                                the kashmir bs? good stuff gets reported.
                                fact is, there aren't a lot of positive
                                events on the same level of interest that
                                dramatic violence causes. "neutral" stuff
                                like politics gets reported a lot.
                                \_ good duck.  they reported months ago that
                                   there were electricity, food, water, crime,
                                   and a zillion other problems *in Iraq* (you
                                   know, the topic of this thread?) yet we
                                   don't hear squat about any of these problems
                                   after they're solved which leaves us to
                                   falsely believe that these are still
                                   problems and nothing good is happening in
                                   Iraq.  Next time try to stay with us on
                                   topic, ok?
                                   \_ You can find out about electricity, etc,
                                      if you look enough.  What you find won't
                                      be good because, again, there isn't much
                                      good to be found.  Most of Baghdad
                                      considers itself lucky if it gets 3 hours
                                      of electricity at a time
                                   \_ jrleek brought up "it bleeds it leads".
                                      And I'm not believing anything one way
                                      or another about electricity etc. just
                                      because genuine issues were reported
                                      months ago, as a result of our invasion,
                                      and the restoration of which isn't
                                      positive but a net neutrality. The
                                      democracy stuff is reported, but it's
                                      inherently boring (blah blah council
                                      did this or that). To do a happy fun
                                      story about fundamental needs not
                                      being a big problem in Iraq, amidst
                                      battles and bombings etc... which one
                                      is more newsworthy? duh. and you know
                                      it's premature to talk about democracy
                                      since it remains to be seen how that
                                      will turn out.
                       \_ No one hates Bush "no matter what he says or
                          does." Stop inventing strawmen. Everyone who
                          hates, or even dislikes Bush, hates him
                          precisely for what he says and does.
                          \_ No one, eh?  This reminds me of the guy who
                             remarked, on a newsgroup, that he would hate
                             Bush even if he invented a cure for cancer.
                             You overestimate people's rationality.
                               -- ilyas
                             \_ The best you can come up with is some crank
                                on a newsgroup? *laugh*
                                \_ And the wall, and the motd.  Either you
                                   wall cranks should be dismissed as the
                                   partisan cranks you are or you're hate
                                   filled vicious partisans (but oh so
                                   edjumikated and superior to the rest of us).
                                   You can't have it both ways.  You still
                                   blindly hate for its own sake.
2004/5/28-29 [Uncategorized] UID:30472 Activity:low
5/27    The Nick Berg string of Isolated Incidents(tm) continues.  Apparently
        he had a 20-minute interview with Michael Moore.  Hmmm....
        \_ you're never going to see it anyway
2004/5/28-29 [Uncategorized] UID:30473 Activity:nil
5/29    Finally!  Proof that Mossad (the Jew assassin squad) was behind the
2004/5/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30474 Activity:very high
        9/11 attacks.  He starts off slowly with all the Al Qaeda/Hussein
        fluff and then brilliantly wraps it up by then end.  The Jews really
        are out to get us all!  And yes, Haliburton paid them to do it so they
        could get their hands on the Iraqi oil and the Afghan pipeline routes
        later.  It is all so clear to me now.
        ... Non-shortened long URL delelted...
                                   \_ BALEETED?
        \_ censorship at its worst.  you dont even have the balls to admit
           you simply didnt like the message so you killed it, you prick, even
           though it fits just fine.  restored.
        \_ If it was about censoring, why was the text and a reason left?
           \_ Because without the URL, there's no message.  What good is an
              answer if you don't know the question?  It's censorship and
              it's ugly.
        \_ I always believe articles from two weeks in the future.  I mean,
           they're from the future!  They must know more than we do now!
           \_ You don't understand how magazines work?  C'mon, get real.
2004/5/28 [Uncategorized] UID:30475 Activity:nil
5/29    Is Krispy Kreme burnt toast?
        \_ A creme-filled bagel?  Like poison it tastes!
2004/5/28-29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30476 Activity:high
5/29    If I set up smtp_over_ssl/tsl/smtp-auth do clients who know about it
        just connect straight to port 465 (or whatever it is) or is an inital
        connection to 25 still required to kickoff TTLS ??
        \_ I think there's a STARTTLS command that will work over the normal
            \_ O.k. but if I don't want to use the normal port do i have to
               start it that way, or is 465 listening to me without my
               having to do an initial handshake on port 25
               \_ It depends on how you have your mail server setup.
2004/5/28-29 [Transportation/Car] UID:30477 Activity:low
5/28    100 km on 1 liter of fuel (240 MPG):
        \_ quite cool but like 2 years old.
        \_ and if only the evil bushco controlled oil companies with their
           hands deep in bush's pockets would just let this tech reach the
2004/5/28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30478 Activity:nil
5/28    I see that OpenOffice can export to PDF, but can it OPEN PDF files?
        \_ Use motdedit fool
           \_ Fuck motdedit.  In the ear.
           \_ Wow! motdedit works on pdf's now?  Rock!
        \_ No need to.  Acrobat Reader is free.
           \_ I want to open and edit and save a PDF.
              \_ Why the fuck why? Just edit the original.
                 \_ Sigh. He wants to edit a PDF where he doesn't HAVE the
                    original.  And no, I don't think open office can do
                    that.  It's very difficult.  Last time I tried, Open
                    Office couldn't.
                    \_ Still, why would you want to do this? Where did this pdf
                       come from? It should be dealt with at that level.
                       The reason it's difficult is because it's not a format
                       intended for source editing. I think there are various
                       tools to do limited pdf editing but for anything serious
                       you go to the source. Or copy and paste I guess.
                        \_ The original came from a customer. I want to
                           edit the form. I do not own Acrobat Writer.
                        \_ No need to ask so many questions, just answer his
2004/5/28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30479 Activity:nil
5/28    I'm losing interest in the motd.  is there something wrong with me?
        \_ USE WALL!
           \_ is wall any more interesting?
        \_ yes, you were interested in it at some point.
        \_ The motd is not here for your amusement.  Contribute or go away.
2004/5/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:30480 Activity:moderate
5/28    will be affected by the cory power outage this
        weekend?  (anyone know?)  Thanks...
        \_ probably not - erikk
           \- when to when is the outage?
                \_ 05/28 (Fri) 3PM to 06/01 (Mon) 8AM.
                \_ read notice on www.eecs/
2004/5/28-29 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:30481 Activity:nil
5/28    I just found out that bison inserts these lines of code
                #ifndef __cplusplus
                #ifndef __STDC__
                #define const
        between the function declaration line and the actual definition lines.
        That's causing compiler warnings about "const" not matching for my
        function which has a parameter of type "const char*".  Why would bison
        want to define "const" to nothing?  I'm writing C code.  Thanks.
        \_ I think "const" was introduced in C89.  Non-ANSI compilers (i.e.
           ones that don't define __STDC__) may not support it.
           \_ I'm using at the command line "Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++
              Optimizing Compiler Version 12.00.8168 for 80x06" which is pretty
              \_ I'm not sure why it doesn't define __STDC__.  Maybe you have
                 some non-compliant compiler extensions enabled or something.
                 If you want, you could try defining it yourself as a compiler
2004/5/28-29 [Industry/Startup] UID:30482 Activity:nil
5/27    Maybe we should help each other out.  We should list the company and
        managers that we should avoid.
        \_ it's called <DEAD><DEAD>
        Manager:  Bush,  Company, US Executive Branch -CJCS93
          \_ LOL, but many will disagree with you.
2004/5/28 [Uncategorized] UID:30483 Activity:nil
5/27    Favorite animal/cut of meat?
        \_ cow / fillet minion
                        \_ mignon
        \_ yermom / crotch
           \_ My life is a crotch!
        \_ pig ears!
           \_ woof woof!
        \_ lamb rib chops
        \_ tiger penis
2004/5/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30484 Activity:nil
5/27    NEW: pretty motd diff and history (track down exactly when entries
        were posted):
2018/12/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:28 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>