Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:30 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2003/10/30 [Uncategorized] UID:10852 Activity:nil 52%like:10864
10/29   Fox threatens to sue itself:
        http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,1073216,00.html
        Is it just me or is the whole world turning into an Onion article?
2003/10/30 [Recreation/Dating] UID:10853 Activity:nil
10/29   Prositution is illegal in California.  Let say, some horny 17 yr old
        high school kid decide to buy a pop and got busted, should the
        prositute herself be charged with child molestation for having
        sex with a minor?  This is what happening to Taiwan, as the
        17 yr old kid and his guardian is not being charged, while
        the prositute in the mainland is charged with child abuse.
        I am wondring is there any similiar case in USA.
        \_ Maybe they'd just make the 17 year old go back to school
           so that he doesn't end up at America's top public university
           posting to a public message board in broken English. Jackass.
        \_ It would be statutory rape, but as the punishment for prostitution
           is harsher, they'd probably forgo the stat rape charge.  Now, if
           there's proof that the kid paid for sex, they could charge him with
           solicitation, but this is harder to prove.
        \_ In the US the cops would walk away because the whole thing is too
           messy and just not worth it.
        \_ But then again most prostitute in the US are savvy enough to ask
           whether you're over 18 before you're getting something.
2003/10/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:10854 Activity:very high
10/29   This Paul Krugman guy sounds like a commie.
        http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16730
        \_ Krugman rocks, despite the impending denunciations and
           accusations of hating America that are sure to follow
           in this thread.  Thanks for the link.
           \_ There won't be any followups because no one reads zero context
              links or cares about Paul Krugman.
              \_ My my, very presumptuous aren't you.
                 \_ Whatever.  The only thing going on now is us bickering
                    about why others aren't bickering over the URL.  The fact
                    that no one has read it and commented on it makes it clear
                    I'm right and you're, well, just being yourself.
              \_ Obviously you weren't around last night before the thread
                 got extirpated.
                 \_ No, I wasn't.  I don't sit here 24x7 talking about Paul
                    Krugmna's latest article.
                    \_ It may come as a shock to you, but not everyone cares
                       about you.
                    \_ There. Thread was requested. Thread was restored
                       -anonymous motd uncensorer
           \_ And how did they come to power? Through
              "the increasing manipulation of the media
              and the political process by lavishly funded
              right-wing groups. Yes, Virginia, there is a
              vast right-wing conspiracy," he concludes.
              I think rather than denounce him, I ll just laugh at him.
                -- conservative
                \_ Fox News.
                   \_ How fair and balanced of you.
                  \_ I think this is really funny.  Whenever someone wants
                     to talk "right wing conspiracy" in the media they
                     ALWAYS say Fox news.  Errr.. what about NYT? ABC,
                     NBC, AP, and UP, and every other news source?  The're
                     all extremely left wing.  One news station makes a
                     conspiracy, huh?
                     \_ umm... "extremely left wing!?!?"  Are you kidding me?
                        Holy shit. you _really_ need to wake up and think a
                        bit objectively.  None of them dared criticize
                        Bush until recently.  The _most_ they could be
                        is a little left, if that.  But "extremely?"  Stop
                        reading crazy ass neo-con rags and start thinking
                        for yourself.
              \_ A conservative who is getting screwed in the arse by a
                 huge budget deficit and loving every minute of it?
                 \_ I am not getting screwed in the ass.  I am getting my
                    taxes back.  At any rate, the government needs a constant
                    deficit as an incentive to become more efficient
                    (much like a corporation needs constant scarcity).
                    Without scarcity or deficits, neither governments nor
                    corporations have any need to innovate or solve
                    problems elegantly and cheaply.  They will simply expand.
                      -- conservative
                   \_ Nah, more likely they will just do another "read my
                      lips no new taxes" to solve the deficit problem.
                      Under Clinton, with a budget surplus, number of
                      government employees and government spending
                      both decreased according to the WSJ.
                       \_ Think about it, who wants to work for the gubmint
                          when times are good?  What for?
                          \_ gubmint?  is that the racket Junior is running?
                             Minting the country's future away with lots of
                             IOUs?
                   \_ Your logic is flawed.
                      \_ Brilliant.  Perhaps you'd like to elaborate?
                   \_ Under your logic, Iraqi government should be the
                       most efficient government on earth, as it is drawning
                       with debt, so much so that USA is asking Russian, and
                       French to forgive their debt... why?
                       \_ You are confusing necessary and sufficient
                          conditions.  A cash starved government is
                          a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for
                          a small, effective, workable government.  A
                          government flushed with cash always results in
                          corruption and inefficiency, simply because
                          there is no incentive for a government to produce
                          anything, as it is not driven by profit like
                          a business.  However, more than just a shortage
                          of funds is needed for a government to be good
                          (things like a tradition of democracy, rule of law,
                          etc).
                    \_ Nah, more likely they will just do a "read my lips
                       no new taxes" to solve the deficit problem.
           \_ unfortunately, his voice doesn't have much influence in terms
                of policy.
2003/10/30 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Investment] UID:10855 Activity:low
10/29   John Templeton predicts that housing prices will fall by 90%
        http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P52744.asp
        \_ probably not mentioned: the bay area exception
           \_ When there is a big one, it will fall to 1/10 the value.
        \_ If it does then I'm buying all I can afford, baby!
           \_ see also the threat of greater inflation as our economy tanks.
              I'm looking forward to my loan suddenly be worth 10 times
              what I owe on it.
        \_ As bearish as I am about housing prices, I find that hard
           to believe.
           \_ Actual quote: "After home prices go down to one-tenth
              of the highest price homeowners paid, then buy."
              The meaning is slightly different.
              \_ In my area houses just went over 600k recently.  If you
                 wait until they hit 60k before you buy I hope you really like
                 paying rent because you'll be paying it for the rest of your
                 life.  Homeless motd kids, keep up the housing price drop
                 fantasy.  I was hoping the same thing a few years ago when
                 houses here were going for 350k.  I bought in at 430k and
                 no, virginia, there's no end in sight.  It's very simple.
                 More people keep coming in than there is available housing.
                 The author needs to take econ 1 at some place better than
                 hayward.
                 \_ yea, that's what they once said in HK too.  No, I don't
                    think the price will drop to 1/10, but you are the one
                    fantasizing if you think housing prices always go up.
                    \_ In the long term, they do.
                    \_ Son, God is always making more people, He isn't making
                       anymore land.  And yes, historically, housing prices
                       have always gone up.  Real estate is one of the best
                       long term investments you can make.  The only way you
                       can lose is buying swamp land.  Prove me wrong.  History
                       is on my side.
                       \_ The stock market is also a good "long term" investment
                          and consistently beat real estate "long term".
                          That doesn't mean you should buy stocks in March 2000.
                          Yea, God made like 100 million people in Java, and
                          is making plenty more everyday, so why don't you go
                          invest in Java real estate?
                          \_ Hey good shot as changing the subject.  Let me
                             refresh your memory.  The topic was real estate
                             in the US.  This is a growing nation and getting
                             richer everyday.  Here's the econ 1a part: with
                             more and more consumers who are wealthier each
                             day than the one before and a housing supply that
                             doesn't grow as fast, the housing market will
                             continue to climb until those conditions change.
                             Java?  That was a nice try but ultimately feeble.
                             Housing prices will continue to climb over the
                             long haul and unlike the stock market, you can
                             live in your house after a crash.  Housing values
                             can't go to zero, unlike your portfolio.
                             \_ Wealthier?  Did you even read the article? It
                                mentioned the increasing debt of Americans
                                as one of the principle causes of the
                                predicted crash. That means negative wealth,
                                if you need a translation.
                             \_ Housing prices in the Bay Area have been
                                growing much faster than wealth, income and
                                population.  Much "wealth" was destructed
                                in the tech crash. Income has gone
                                down slightly while unemployment has risen.
                                Only thing sustaining the housing prices
                                is the low interest rate, which can't
                                go any lower.  You can live in your
                                house after a crash?  Not if you lose
                                your job.  Not only will you not be able
                                to live in your house, you will still
                                be responsible for the mortgage which
                                would be more than what you can get
                                selling the house.  Bankruptcy would
                                be the only choice left.
                                \_ If you lose your job the only place you
                                   will live is your mom's basement,
                                   anyway. --dim
                                   \_ I think you would rather live in
                                      your mom's basement without debt than
                                      with a shitload of debt, and debt
                                      collectors going after your arse
                                      day in and day out.
2003/10/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10856 Activity:nil
10/29   How do I find archived news on CNN finance? I'm having problems
        researching news on past dot coms, thanks.
        \_ try http://fuckedcompany.com
2003/10/30 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:10857 Activity:nil
10/29   Is there a way to turn off encryption of the data stream in openssh?
        Encryption during the authentication process is fine and good, but
        sometimes I want to transfer files across a fast network on slow
        machines, and the data encryption becomes the bottleneck rather than
        the network. I've check the manpage, but the openssh guys seem a little
        fascist about encryption. Thanks.
        \_ telnet rcp
        \_ weird how a bunch of dudes writing security software would be so
           anal about all that encryption stuff, huh?
           \_ there's anal, then there's too anal.
              \_ go ahead and write your own encryption method and compile it
                 in and just have it not encrypt.  the source is always built
                 with an option to let the user change methods.  use it.
        \_ you can build it yourself with a null cipher, or just live with
           -c arcfour as one of the faster ones.  btw, if you are transfering
           smallish files, tar cf - | ssh tar xf - will gain much more than
           tinkering with ciphers on the crappy scp protocol.
        \_ I would think that part of a secure transmission is ensuring that
           the data stream hasn't been tampered with. If you don't encrypt
           everything, someone could possibly inject bad data.
2003/10/30 [Computer/Networking] UID:10858 Activity:nil
10/29   Last socket question, I swear: in a normal setup, you've got a
        client socket, a socket listening for connections, and a socket
        created by accept() to handle those connections.  What are good names
        to denote the latter two?
        \_ I use "sd" to name socket descriptors.  For the server, I call
           one sdListen because you listen() on it, and I call the ones that
           are returned by accept() just sd for brevity.  I could also call
           them sdConnection.
2003/10/30 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:10859 Activity:nil
10/29   Are there anything similar to cacheFS for linux?
        \_ AFAIK no. Consider synchronizing files on a daily basis with rsync
           or something instead.
           \_ Okay then...  We have about 100 linux NFS clients and nfsstat
              shows a typical getattr of >40%.  Any suggestions to unload
              this?  Thanks.
              \_ "/bin/rm -rf /mnt" run from cron once a day.
2003/10/30 [Science/Space, Recreation/Humor] UID:10860 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
10/29   The ORIGINAL Neil Armstrong moon landing tape (NSFW)
        http://www.blogjam.com/neil_armstrong
        \_ Okay, that was really funny.
2003/10/30 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast] UID:10861 Activity:nil
10/29   Here it is.  Dean in '04.  No one cares about anything but the royal
        mess we're making out the Middle East:
        http://csua.org/u/4ue
        \_ Dream on.  It's about the economy, stupid.
           \_ Hey, you know what?  Fuck you.
              I feel so much better now.  Thanks.
           \_ Yeah, it is: "And despite a quicker pace of recovery, 41,000
              jobs were lost in the third quarter to bring the number of jobs
              lost since President Bush took office to 2.6 million."
              (Reuters)
2003/10/30 [Finance, Finance/Investment] UID:10862 Activity:nil
10/29   Here it is.  Bush in '04.  No one cares about anything but the economy:
        http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031030/D7UGHGD02.html
        \_ Yeah, no one cares about blatant lying, coverups, or botched
           invasions.  No one cares about America's debt.  No one cares about
           the rape of the environment or the erosion of our civil liberties.
           Not if they can buy more Playstation 2!  *sigh*  How's Canada these
           days?
           \_ Nope, they don't, actually.  If they cared about any of
              those things Clinton wouldn't have been elected the first time.
              The economy is the most important thing to voters and to many
              voters the only important thing.  You're naive and childish if
              you think it's about playstations.  It's about being able to
              raise one's children better than one was raised.  Welcome to
              the adult world.
              \_ so if the nations parks and wild lands have been destroyed
                 and we're in a constant state of war with the rest of the world
                 with increased child asthma rates from pollution and
                 the inability to live safely in our homes without being
                 randomly detained without trial how exactly do we provide
                 a better life for our children?  Also, if you see how wrong
                 things are going in this country and turn away becuase
                 you don't believe you can change it it doesn't make you
                 mature it makes you a coward.
                 \_ You know air pollution levels have been dropping
                    steadily since the 70's.  Even under *gasp* republicans.
                    And I don't think most Americans mind that we're in a
                    constant state of war with people who have been attacking
                    us over the last 10-20 years.
                    \_ Fine, so we dissagree. My point is that the motivation
                       for poeple caring about these issues is that poeple
                       want to make this country a better place for their
                       children than it was for them.  You claimed that
                       all people care about is the economy because that's
                       what matters for the quality of life of their children.
                       When I refute you, you come back with "oh yeah? well
                       the Republicans are better on these issues anyway."
                       I believe that some of the republican leadership
                       is right on about the environment, actually.  I just
                       think that the average republican on the street
                       (like you) is a loudmouthed selfish jerk who votes
                       based entirely on their projected income tax
                       burden and doesn't care about society at large
                       or the long term future of this nation.
                       Your comments bear that stereotype out to a tee.
                    \_ And fuck you!
              \_ If you're such an adult, how come you can't be bothered to
                 use motdedit like the rest of us?
                 \_ *laugh*  That's the best you can do?  Golly, it's gotta be
                    Gore in 04 now with *that* great zinger!  Ouch!
                    \_ Hey you know what?  Fuck you too!
           \_ You are right... MOVE THERE THEN.
              \_ Guess what?  Fuck you!
        \_ The economy?  The economy has a good chance of crapping up
           next year.
2003/10/30 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:10863 Activity:nil
10/29   Hey, this motd is so old I can smell the mold on it.  Is someone
        actually geeky enough to have a CVS repository set up or something?
        \_ With all the censorbots around it's required or conversation dies
           seconds after a thread starts if it doesn't involve USE LINUX,
           RIDE BIKE or LIGHT CANDLE.
           \_ Exactly what was the last "ride bike" thread on the MOTD?
              For that matter, there's very little about Linux.  As for
              "light candle", the proverb "it is better to light a candle
              than to curse the darkness," totally applies to people
              who post questions about how to fix broken Microsoft
              products. -tom
2003/10/30 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:10864 Activity:nil 52%like:10852
10/30   This was funny enough to repost. Fox News threatens to sue Fox:
        http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,1073216,00.html
        \_ I'm convinced that Fox News' idiotic lawsuit agains Al Franken
           was a publicity stunt to increase revenue for both the publisher
           of the book and the news station.  There are only so many people
           in the media industry after all, and the idea that people making
           fun of Fox News actually hurts them is absurd.  Hell, i'd never even
           heard of Fox News until prominent progressives started attacking
           them.
2003/10/30 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:10865 Activity:high
10/30   Somebody once mentioned editing the motd via scp.  How does that work?
        \_ See, when you edit by scp, you're off by one whole day.
        \_ err, think about it.  What does scp do?  It copies files.
           Copy, edit, copy back.
           \_ Yes, thank you.  I'm wondering *why* someone would do that,
              instead of editing it on soda.
              \_ to attempt greater anonymity, duh.
2003/10/30 [Recreation/Humor] UID:10866 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
10/30   Can someone re-post (or email me) the URL for that Japanese-version of
        the Matrix? (the hilarious clip of two guys playing ping-pong?)
        Thanks a million! - jthoms
        \_ grep the archives. Luckily, no dummy used the URL-shortener
           on it: http://www.ntv.co.jp/channel/asx/hkzkt10.asx
           \_ flash version: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/pingpong.php
2003/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:10867 Activity:nil
10/30   FreeBSD 10 yr. Anniv. Party @ DNALounge
        http://www.offmyserver.com/cgi-bin/store/rsvp.html
        \_ Not entirely on the subject, but Jamie Zawinski is a dickhead.
           \_ that's nice.  then don't go to the DNA.  please.
              \_ I don't.  Because he is a dickhead, and his club has a
                 seriously weird vibe.
                 \_ Been there lots of times, haven't noticed.  Can you
                    clarify what you're talking about?
                 \_ A friend of mine has worked there since it was newly
                    opened.  They rent it out to whatever promoter wants it
                    on most nights so the 'vibe' will vary greatly every
                    single night.  I get new and unique stories about the
                    goings on every week.  What are you talking about?
                    \_ I'm gonna hazard a wild guess and say you probably
                       dye your hair black and may even have a Skinny Puppy
                       T-shirt.
           \_ Maybe, but WebCollage/Xscreensaver is pretty hilarious when
              run on an overhead projector in an internet cafe... -John
              \_ Err...considering how many web images are pr0n...Dunno
                 if I want to be sipping my coffee and suddenly look up
                 at Belladonna getting a double anal.
                 \_ Wow.  That was a mental image I *so* didn't need.  Christ.
                 \_ Then I suggest you avoid Amsterdam at all costs.  -John
                 \_ Who is Belladonna?
                    \_ I don't know what these fucking nerds are talking
                       about.  Belladonna was the lead singer for the
                       greatest heavy metal band in the history of
                       the Universe: Anthrax.
                       \_ Uhm.  STFW, dumbass.
                    \_ If you can't infer from the context, or take it upon
                       yourself to do a google search, you really need to
                       see a professional
                    \_ If you have to ask...
                 \_ you could do a hell of a lot worse than belladonna.
2003/10/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10868 Activity:moderate
10/30   I'm not sure when this was published, but this compares
        current events with Athens trying to conquer Sicily:
        http://www.csua.org/u/4ui - danh
        \_ I still contend that oil slicks keep seals young and supple.
        \_ why not just assume that people who want to listen to NPR already
           do?
           \_ look, even people who listen to NPR / read harpers don't do it
              ALL the time.  One of the great things about the motd is that
              there are a bunch of opiniated half-bright individuals out there
              going through lots of media so i don't have to.  Now, they
              don't always get it right.  But i am happy to have the freepers
              post when they find something they think is particularly
              interesting, as i am glad to have had this posted. -phuqm
        \_ i thought the article was interestiing, and i admit
           the tone of harper'ss magazine can be a lilttle obnoxious iis
        \_ Re: the quote:  isn't folly the result of incompentence and
           perversity the result of decadence?  (not always but often) -phuqm
        \_ [s/Sparta/Sicily/ completed, you're welcome]
        \_ Nice article, thanks.
2003/10/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10869 Activity:moderate
10/30   memo from Fox News staffer on whether they are
        really 'fair and balanced.'.  I guess it's not any
        new information but it's interesting:
        http://poynter.org/forum/?id=letters#foxnews - danh
        \_ "For the staffers, many of whom are too young to have come up
            through the ranks of objective journalism, and all of whom
            are non-union, with no protections regarding what they can be
            made to do, there is undue motivation to please the big boss."
            Oh yeah.  Objective journalism like the LA times who refused
            to dig dirt at one point on Davis because claimed they don't do
            that to political incumbents.  They also had more than 20 (!?)
            people working on digging up dirt on Arnie.  Objective journalism
            my ass.  Fox is tame by comparison.  They actually let people
            lean both sides, as long as one side doesn't get the last word.
                 \_ Are you trolling? This is patently false.
                    \_ If you are referring to the LA Times story, it was all
                       over the news here in LA.  Too bad it didn't make
                       national (or even state) news...  Actually one wonders
                       why not...  A bloody LA times reporter confirmed the
                       20+ figure.
                       \_ I think he referred to the "fox lets people lean both
                          sides" falsehood. About the dirt-digging, well I have
                          no knowledge of that but I'm not concerned. Davis has
                          been in politics a long time and dirt is out there.
                          Arnie on the otherhand declared candidacy just weeks
                          prior to a recall election, and therefore any dirt
                          would be very timely and informative.
                          \_ That 'falsehood' was a quote from that Fox-bashing
                             article posted above which started this thread,
                             you know the article you probably didn't read...
            If that's bias, we need more bias in the media!
            \_ Attempting "moral equivalency" between LA times and Fox News
               is ludicrous. Are you really comfortable with the level of
               systematic, intentional bias creation in that memo?
               http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2003/10/index.html#001768
            \_ Actually, we need less of both.  I'm sure people would laugh
               at you if you said "Fox is tame by comparison".
               \_ Why should they laugh at me?  I believe bias in media is
                  unavoidable.  What we need is less hypocricy by people
                  denouncing sins of which they are guilty themselves.
                  \_ They should just change the slogan of Fox News to
                     "The Patriotic News Channel" and be done with it.  That's
                     more accurate for what they think they're doing.
                     \_ But it's not "patriotic" when a Dem is prez.
                     \_ yes because republicans are patriotic and dems are
                        sleazy commie traitors.
                  \_ You're in the wrong camp:  it's the libs who yell
                     "hypocrite" and the cons who scream "unpatriotic."
                     Get your slogans right.
2003/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:10870 Activity:nil
10/30   How to check if pyzor and razor are installed?
2003/10/30-31 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:10871 Activity:moderate
10/30   I want to run a script that checks if a machine has active users on
        it, and if there aren't any, than starts a CPU intensive process,
        and also to turn it off if there are users. Is there a way to check
        this easily?  The best I've come up with is running ps and who -u
        checking for idle users and/or processes.  TIA.
        \_ uptime
        \_ can't you just run the process with a weightless priority.  then
           it will only use the CPU when nothing else is using it.  The only
           downside is if it uses a lot of memory you may experience swapping
           issues.  'npri -w <command>' (at least on IRIX).
           \_ hmm... sounds like it would work.  However, I don't run Irix.
              Anyone know of a Linux equivalent?  nice -19 is too intensive
              \_ what do you mean by "intensive"?
                 \_ I mean that users complain that the system is slow
                    and sluggish even when the job is nice -19
                    \_ The problem probably is not CPU time, but that the
                       working set of your process is too big.
        \_ if you're trying to reinvent a queueing system, don't. install
           openpbs, lsf, or condor instead.
           \_ Sun Grid Engine is free and worked well when I used it before.
2003/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:10872 Activity:nil
10/30   Hello spamassassin experts. Should I put in a return message to
        spammers saying "Sorry but the email does not exist   -root"
        and hope that they may take off my name? Or should I just dump
        spam into /dev/null or  a spam folder?
        \_ I think you should put in a return message with your credit
           card number (and expiration date), because--hey, you can never
           have too much viagra!
           http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003490664,,00.html
        \_ By the time spamassassin sees it, your machine has already confirmed
           that the address exists.  The return address is almost always bogus
2003/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:10873 Activity:nil
10/30   I just installed spamassassin on my Linux box and would like to
        try it. However, I don't have any spam yet (it's a new domain).
        What's the best way to receive a LOT of spams? Thanks.
        \_ Place the email on a web page that is linked to by sites a spider
           would find.  Include a <mailto:> link too.  Also, sign up for lots
           of crap on different sites... Gator, Xupiter, Comet Cursor et. al.
        \_ Post to Usenet.
        \_ Use Expedia.               'Ba-dump-ching!"
           \_ or Orbitz
              \_ Actually, I was referring to the news that crackers stole
                 their customer email list and prolly sold it to spammers.
2003/10/30-31 [Science/Biology, Computer/Theory] UID:10878 Activity:nil
10/30   Yahoo! News - Robots to Gain Eyes in the Back of Their Heads
        htt://csua.org/u/4um
        It reads " But as computer scientists at the University of Maryland
        proved mathematically in 1998, if robots could see in all directions
        they would not need any other sensors."  What kind of mathematical
        proof would that be?  How do you go about proving something like this
        mathematically?
        \_ why doesn't evolution favor eyes at the back of animals heads?
           \_ Prey animals usually have very widely-spaced eyes and can see
              in almost 360-degrees.  Predators (and humans) have forward
              facing eyes which give good depth perception.  Why do no
              vertebrates have more than 2 eyes?
              \_ The fundamental answer guiding all evolutionary processes:
                 efficiency.
                 \_ only able to last 15 seconds in the sack, eh?
                 \_ How is turning the head to look behind more efficient than
                    procesing more signals from more eyes in the brain?
                    \_ You save the energy needed to grow more eyes and the
                       brain structures needed to process the extra input.
                       \_ But you need to grow the muscles to turn the head,
                          and for some mammals, even part of the body.
                          \_ good point.
                 \_ Eyes have a lot of muscles and things, at least our full
                    functioned ones do. Also, head movement is needed anyway
                    for eating (maybe not for humans, but for prey animals).
                    Since prey animal eyes and hearing suffices, more eyes
                    probably cause more problems than they help. They might
                    also be vulnerable to injuries. Head movement is also used
                    for smelling.
                    \_ You might also want to take into account that more
                       eyes also translates to more brain mass/complexity
                       to process the information.
              \_ Flies have many eyes in two groups.
                 \_ I said VERTEBRATES.
                 \_ and mammals (and many verterbrates) have many rods/cones
                    in two groups.
                    \_ But flies have many separate lenses whereas mammals have
                       only two.
        \_ The article explains it pretty well:
           "The ability to navigate was the lowest level of capability
            needed by a robot to work in an unknown environment, she said."
           "Providing a robot with "omni-directional" vision could vastly
            improve its navigational skills, ..."
            Thus, you make the assumption that navigation is needed, then
            you prove that 360-degree eyes are sufficient for navigation,
            thus it doesn't "need any other sensors."
2003/10/30-31 [Health/Disease/General] UID:10879 Activity:nil
10/30   Yahoo! News Photos - SARS
        http://csua.org/u/4ul
        A govt. health minister can't even wear a goggle right.
2003/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10880 Activity:nil
10/30   I have a tarfile of some pretty hilarious exploits a friend of
        mine obtained through a honeypot running on port 23 of a Linux
        box.  Anyone interested?  -John
        \_ sure.
2003/10/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:10881 Activity:moderate
10/30   Man, if Clinton was doing this kind of shit the media and the GOP
        would have been screaming about it 24/7.  To elaborate, this is a
        Reuters article about how companies awarded lucrative contracts in
        Iraq have made very large Bush campaign contributions.
        http://csua.org/u/4uk
        \_ I'm not saying there's nothing dodgy about it, but using Bechtel
           as an example seems fairly weak--they are, after all, one of the
           world's biggest construction companies, and a really big company
           in its own right.  Wouldn't you expect them to have political
           connections, just like Microsoft, GM, US Steel, Exxon, and RJR
           Nabisco (among others) do?  And frankly, I don't think it would
           have gone over too well if we'd started paying the Binladin group
           to build roads in Afghanistan.  Although regarding the Clinton
           thing, I don't know if it would have started a real shitfest--
           don't forget, the GOP screams about everything.  That's what makes
           them so cuddly and lovable.  -John
           \_ There are contracts, and there are no-bid contracts. --aaron
                \_ And there are also Federal sole source regulations
                   that constrain the structure of no-bid contracts.
                   \_ Which have been violated in Iraq.
           \_ Halliburton is a great example, though.
              \_ Yeah, and Halliburton is one of the biggest oil engineering
                 firms in the world (or at least US.)  I'm not doubting the
                 potential for monkey business, but the examples given are
                 like saying "Red Adair has a good relationship with the
                 government, including giving campaign contributions, so it's
                 suspicious that he's given all those contracts to put out oil
                 fires."  -John
                 \_ This is what you get for 1. non-bid contracts, and 2.
                    the sheer fact that the Vice President, which a has
                    the shear fact that the Vice President, which a has
                    overwhelmingly influence in Iraq policies, was the
                    CEO of Halliburton.   Last time I check, Halliburton is
                    still paying for his compensation today.
                    \_ Which still doesn't address my point.  They are a big
                       company, with lots of references in their field.
                       Yeah, Cheney was on their board and probably still
                       has ties, which is wrong.  Are you saying that no
                       company, no matter how competent they are, with any
                       ties to politicians should be given any govt.
                       contracts?  -John
                       \_ They should be forced to compete in a fair and
                          competitive bidding process. Halliburton was
                          given a no-bid contract. And I personally believe
                          that politicians taking campaign contributions
                          should not be allowed to grant federal contracts
                          to those companies. But that is not the law, at
                          least not yet. -ausman
                           \_ While I agree with you that competition is
                              good and healthy, it is not always feasible.
                              One should be careful with statements like
                              "all bids should be through competition"--it
                              has the competition to create lots of
                    still paying for his compensation today.
                              inefficiency and other side effects.  -John
           \_ Also, Bechtel has had big government contracts for decades, under
              the administrations of Dems and Repubs.
              the administrations of Dems and Repubs.
                \_ Bechtel built the Hoover Dam.
        \_ So why don't I see any criticism of URS Corp., owned in part
           by Diane Feinstein's husband, which receives several billion
           annually in government contract?  They were just awarded
           4 billion dollar contract.
           \_ Because We Love Diane Feinstein!  She can Do No Wrong!  If she
              were a republican, however, her actions would be unspeakably
              evil and beyond redemption.
           annually in government contract?  They were just awarded
           4 billion dollar contract.
              \_ No, because those contracts were awarded after a fair and
                 competitive bidding process, while the Iraq contracts were
                 not. Are you honestly unable to see the difference?
2003/10/30 [Finance/Investment] UID:29598 Activity:very high
10/29   when you chip, do you:
        1) use the same swing but change club to change distance
        or
        2) use the same club (P/S) but change the swing to change distance
        Poll:
        1: .
        2:
        \_ Another poll.  Who thinks motd polls about golf are:
           Dumb:
           Pathetic: .
           Both: ...
           \_ i felt the guy in Falling Down had the right idea about golf
              and golfers.
        \_ when I chip I put yermom over the arm of the couch and take her
           ass just the way she likes it.  how about you?  how you do take
           yermom's ass?
        \_ Whenever possible I chip with my 7 iron with alot of run - this
           gives me much more accuracy.
           Elevated shots or where an abrupt stop is required use a
           wedge.  -freeper guy (10 handicap)
           wedge.  Perhaps you meant pitch rather than chip?
                -freeper guy (10 handicap)
        \_ golfers deserve no sympathy, ever.
           \_  why am i not suprised you are a golfer?  could you please
               do the world a favor and sterilize yourself?  thanks.
                \_ hate speech from the left?  Who would of thought.
                   \_ I know what you're thinking.  Did he fire six shots
                      or only five?  Well, to tell you the truth, in all this
                      excitement, I've kinda lost track myself.  But being
                      as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in
                      the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've
                      got to ask yourself one question:  Do I feel lucky?
                      Well, do ya punk?
                        \_ Clint Eastwood plays golf too.
                           \_ so do 90% of the presidents of US. By the
                              way the old George Bush really kicked Clinton's
                              ass in one of the games even though Clinton
                              said he really really wanted to win.
2003/10/30 [Uncategorized] UID:29599 Activity:nil
10/29   Just bought a ThermalTake III v2000 case.  Poorly wired fan
        regulator caused the thing to literally go up in flames with black
        smoke.  I've never heard of this happening before, and the things
        usually get good reviews.  Opinions?  -John
        \_ I know a guy who bought one recently and the poorly wired fan
           regulator cause the thing to literally go up in flames with black
           smoke.  Sounds like a bad purchase to me.
2003/10/30 [Recreation/Food] UID:29600 Activity:high
10/29   My company is putting everybody through mandatory training.
        Training takes place at 12:00 and usually takes 90 minutes, during
        which time we are served lunch.  They remind us that, since they're
        serving lunch, we are expected NOT to charge time for the first hour
        of training.  Training only occurs about 1-2X a month, and the
        burden is not great, but it irks me that they expect a tray of tacos
        to cover the combined hourly wage of 70 engineers.  What would you
        do in this situation?
        \_ I'd eat my tacos.  But then again, I'm a starving PhD student.
           (I'd also learn to follow everyone else's indenting convention).
           \_ Somebody didn't use motdedit.  I restored it.
              \_ Stuff motdedit and your assumptions in your ear.
                 \_ Suck it.
        \_ If you're REQUIRED to be there, it's billable time.  Problem is they
           might say it's not required, and then give you bad performance reviews
           or fire you for some made-up reason.  I'd eat the tacos and bend my
           timecard a little
        \_ I get the labor law thing... it's a good company and I'm not
            complaining, except about the jackasses in one department.
        \_ Are you an hourly employee?  I'd expect a really nice lunch from
           them. Your lunch hour is about more than food.
           \_ salaried
        \_ what knucklehead told you you cant bill this time?  it doesn't
           matter if they've got 77 dark eye virgins dancing naked for your
           pleasure, if it's mandatory then it's *their* time not yours and
           it should get billed.  if you're at the kind of company where you
           can bitch about it without getting fucked then go ahead.  otherwise
           just fudge your hours somewhere and don't let them screw you.  if
           you're hourly you're expected to fudge hours anyway.
        \_ Bring your own lunch, and then see what they have to say.
        \_ Some of you guys don't seem like team players.
           \_ heh
        \_ formatd was here.  what the hell is so hard about hitting tab at
           the start of line instead of 6 spaces?
           \_ read above.  It was copy-pasted out of the archive.
2003/10/30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Startup] UID:29601 Activity:nil
10/30   Can you smell the IPOs?  IBM's "Prodigy" Linux commercial:
        http://csua.org/u/4ug
        \_ the kid looks like eminem
        \_ Hate marketers.  hate 'em.
2018/11/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/18   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:30 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>