Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:June:01 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/6/1 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:28598 Activity:very high 50%like:28593
5/31    I had another hard drive failure recently, making this 2 drives over
        \_ ALL hard drives fail eventually.  back up your data.
           \_ ALL backups fail eventually.  back up your backups.
                \_ the return of the fucking motd comedian!  all
                   hail.  fuck off.
                   \_ actually, it's true.  if your data is important you'll
                      have more than 1 backup of it, at least 1 of which is
                      offsite, but you obviously knew this from your uber
                      genius reply to the other person above.  what your tiny
                      little mind sees as a bad joke is often the reality
                      other people work in because unlike you they have data
                      that has real value.
        2 years that have failed in under a year.  (And they weren't even IBM
        deathstars)  Is there any independent website logging failures
        to keep manufacturers honest about their MTBFs?
        \_ Could be your environment. Have you checked your powersupply
        \_ SARS?
        \_ You using a battery backup?  I think that helps make your power
           better too.  I've had two hd crashes / slow death before, but not
           circumstances.  Don't ask if you can't contribute.
           in the 5 years since I started using battery backups.
                \_ I have UPS on one of the computers with the dead disk,
                   if that's what you mean
        \_ what brand do you use?
        \_ could be the heat, get extra fans to blow on them.
        \_ what drives are they?
                \_ Segate Baracuda IV (most recently) and some sort of Maxtor
        \_ consider a RAID?
                \_ Definitely, but if drives fail that often I'll be
                   switching disks every few months.
                   \_ which is better than losing data every few months.
        \_ There is such a site but I won't tell you until you tell us what
           make and model of drives you've had go bad and under what
           circumstaNces.  Don't ask if you can't contribute.
        \_ Drive failures have a saddle curve; disks more commonly fail within
           the first 6 months, then failures tail off until the 3-4 year
           point, where they start to gradually rise again.  MTBF of 500K
           hours doesn't mean you can expect 500K hours from your disk.  -tom
           \_ and you know all this... because?
2003/6/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28599 Activity:nil 75%like:28602
6/1     What are the pros/cons of Linux 8 vs. 9?
        \_ The con is neither exists.  You might mean Redhat 8 vs 9 or
                Mandrake or some other distro - if so, specify it.
                Linux is currently at 2.4 with 2.5/2.6 under development.
                  \_ Yes, of course I meant Red Hat.
           \_ Maybe Red Hat = Linux like Rollerblades = In-Line Skates
2003/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:28600 Activity:moderate
6/1     Great Myths of the Great Depression
           \_ thank you, both of you, for the interesting links.
           \_ Amusing that government employment is included with
              private sector.  They also conveniently leave out FDR
              stacking the entire Supreme Court.
2003/6/1-2 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:28601 Activity:very high
6/1     I want to put together a reasonably large (~250GB), reliable, and
        cheap disk array for important files and documents on a FreeBSD box
        which currently only has a couple of IDE drives in it.  I'm thinking of
        running vinum on a bunch of external drives--any recommendations on
        dependable, not-too-expensive disk racks/cases?  Speed's no issue,
        so what about scsi-2 vs. USB vs. Firewire?  Any opinions welcome.  -John
        \_ John, you can use any of a number of scsi<->ide external raid array
           units which handles raid in hardware and exposes a single 'drive'
           to the unix system.  Typical box has 8 slots and handles raid5.
           You aren't specific enough about your needs and budget, but from
           what you say I might slap a bunch of 80/100/120 gig drives in a
           box and do raid5.  If the data is important enough, I'd mirror it
           too.  Do not buy 3ware cards.  --raid guy and 3ware victim
                \_ Good tip, thanks.  I just need something that's fault
                   tolerant if a single disk goes--don't need hot-swap, which
                   is why I was thinking vinum (this'll all get backed up
                   anyway.  The prices below (~$500-600) are what I'm looking
                   for--got any specific tips on disk boxes?  I can't find any
                   decent ones in stores over here, and don't really know what
                   to look for online.  Thanks!  -John
                   \_ You might get an old "K2" raid box off ebay or something
                      like that.  External hw raid boxes might be out of your
                      price range if you've only got $600 for one, but a used
                      one might go for that.  An alternative would be to get
                      a 4 or 6 disk 3u case with hot swap support for ide and
                      then just build your unix box from that.  It'll be less
                      expensive and probably still get you what you want.  I
                      think you can get a case *and* disks for under $1000.
        \_ Why not just buy a pair of 250GB EIDE disks and mirror them?
        $258 for a 250GB hard disk....
           \_ The best price/storage ratio is currently around 120G, for $100
              a piece.  $300 for a 240G RAID 5 solution across 3 disks.
              Add in $300 for a 3ware escalade 7500-4LP ATA RAID controller if
              you don't want to do RAID in software.
              \_ nononononono! do *not* buy 3ware!!!! ever!!!  my company has
                 lost multiple terabytes to 3ware's crappy cards and drivers.
                 Do Not Buy 3Ware!  --3ware multi-terabitten victim
                \_ 3Ware cards worked fine for me.  we blew a bunch
                   of money on a raidzone, we had horrendously bad
                   luck, blew hours and hours of my life, i would
                   like to talk tons of crap about raidzone! - danh
                   \_ I've got a dozen 3ware based boxes.  I'm in the middle
                      of a multi month project to move all this data to
                      reliable hosts.  After that the 3ware boxes are going
                      to ebay or the trash or Hell.  --3ware victim
                \_ What would you suggest for similar price/functionality?
                   \_ see my comment above to John about K2 boxes and 3u
                      hot swap ide cases.
        \_ 1 TB IDE-to-SCSI hardware RAID is < $5000 . Uses 6 200 GB
           disks. I am sure there are smaller versions for less. --dim
           \_ Where can I find one of these?
           \_ I thought FreeBSD's SCSI support was much better than IDE.
              If you're willing to pay for RAID you'd do as well to go
              straight SCSI.
              \_ because scsi drives cost several times more per meg and
                 most people don't need scsi?  it just has to work.
              \_ The interface *is* SCSI. The disks are not. It connects
                 to a SCSI card and uses a SCSI driver, hence IDE-> SCSI. I
                 got mine at Western Scientific. --dim
                 \_ I believe the person meant "scsi->scsi" when they said
                    "straight scsi".  IE: not IDE drives.
                    \_ No shit, but he also said "FreeBSD's SCSI support".
                       It *does* use the freaking SCSI driver, genius!
                        \_ hey dim, back to reading comp 1A for you.  you're
                           the only one here who didn't know what everyone was
                           talking about.
                           \_ I think that would be you. Take your own advice.
                        \_ Actually, I was questioning the 1TB IDE-to-SCSI
                           part.  I guess he meant IDE disks, SCSI interface,
                           which I would call SCSI-to-IDE.  Using IDE to
                           access SCSI disks is the worst of both worlds,
                           which I think everyone agrees on.
2003/6/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:28602 Activity:very high 75%like:28599
6/1     What are the pros/cons of Red Hat Linux 8 vs. 9?
        \_ 8 and 9 are very similar in terms of versions of the major
           components used (gcc, glibc, kernel, etc). 9 is just slightly newer
           and hopefully has fewer bugs. If you're happy with an 8 system,
           the upgrade might not be worth the trouble right now. However, if
           you're setting up a new system there is no reason not to install 9
             \_ Thanks.
        \_ what is wrong with Debian?
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:June:01 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>