Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:August:19 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/8/19 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:29384 Activity:very high
8/18    What's a good Athlon motherboard that supports ECC memory?  If
        that's not possible, what about motherboards for Intel CPUs?
        \_ I just built an Athlon system. That thing is HOT, heats up
           my apartment in no time. No more Athlon for me in the future,
           thank you.

t/18    John's bored link of the day:
        \_ possibly not work-safe.
                \_ Completely harmless and silly, ffs.  I never post non-work-
                   safe stuff for you bunch of old women.
           \_ you own intel stock?  it's below water?  FUDding the motd
              won't help.
           \_ Pentium 4's run hot, too.
           \_ underclock your Athlon. it'll run a lot cooler.
           \_ water-cooling, baby!
               \_ Unless you pump the heat outside, the apartment will
                  still heat up just as much with water cooling.
           \_ Not only are the pentiums just as hot, the next generation are
              going to be even hotter.  How's 103 watts pumping away inside
              your box from *just the cpu* going to take care of your winter
              chills?  Real men have cold rooms anyway.  Heat problems are
              for the proles.
2003/8/19-20 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:29385 Activity:insanely high
8/18    Can someone repost a list of good strategic war games that don't
        emphasize on civ build-ups? Thanks.
        \_ Risk, Axis & Allies are good board games.  Anything from SSI is
           probably too complex.  -John
        \_ Avalon Hill Games
        \_ What do you mean by strategic?  True wargames differ by scale,
           and are divided into 'tactical' (brigade level, and lower), and
           'operational' (army level, and above).  A good example of the first
           group is Squad Leader.  A good example of the second group is
           Talonsoft's Operational Art of War.  I prefer operational games
           myself, but those games are no longer wargames per se, they often
           model diplomatic, economic, and geopolitical considerations
           (not to mention logistics).  Thus, they are by necessity civ-like.
           Good recent operational games are Hearts of Iron (centering on WWII),
           and Europa Universalis (centering on 15th-19th century) by
           Paradox Entertainment, both use the same engine.  An excellent
           tactical game is Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin, by
           Battlefront.  If you are interested in wargames, drop me an email
           and we can chat more.  I am always looking for more people to play
           (AI tends to suck in complicated wargames, not surprisingly).
             -- ilyas
        \_ chess.
        \_ baiting tom.
           \_ not good, not strategic, not a war game. well ok, it's good.
              and it's a game.  but it's like playing solitaire and cheating.
              you can't lose because it's too easy.
                                          \_ like yermom? -!tom
                                             \_ "i know you are but what am i?"
                                                \_ "it's too easy, like yermom"
        \_ checkers.
        \_ Settlers of Catan is a simple yet very enjoyable strategic
           game, but it's based on resources and growth not war.  There
           are supposedly expansion packs or newer versions that incorporate
           war, though.
           \_ settlers of catan is great, (even women enjoy it), but it isn't
              a war game.
              \_ odd game.  i won my first game and i'm still not sure why.
                \_ Settlers is an example of a steamroller game.  A few
                   lucky rolls of the dice, and you win:  some advantage
                   leads to more advantage, exponentially.  It's not like
                   netrek, where the more you succeed, the harder it is
                   to gain more.
                   \_ If you like Settlers check out Puerto Rico. A bit more
                      complicated, but really fun and there's almost no
                      element of luck involved.
                      \_ there is luck in Puerto Rico -- the order and
                         ability of players is important.
                   \_ With the "Cities and Knights" expansion, Settlers is
                      a much better game, because it's easier to gang up on
                      whomever's in front.  -tom
                   \_ Even without the expansion, whenever I play Settlers
                      people gang up on whoever is in front by using the
                      robber, refusing to trade with the leader, using
                      hostile development cards, etc.  If you feel that
                      Settlers is a "steamroller game", you should try
                      playing against better opponents.
                        \_ Yes, but all of those things often don't
                           make too much of a dent in the front-runner.
                           With enough of an advantage, and some good dice
                           rolls you can triumph over all possible opposition
                           in Settlers.  The robber is at the level of an
                           irritant only, if you're big enough.
                           \_ But cards like "Wedding" and "Sabotage", plus
                              futzing around with knights if you've got grain,
                              makes Cities and  Knights a lot more dynamic,
                              and it's feasible to gain 4 or 5 victory points
                              in a single turn if you plan it right.    I
                              agree that the base Settlers game tends to
                              steamroll.  -tom
        \_ Board games or computer games?
                \_ board game:  Rise and Fall fo the Third Reich ...
                        \_ Takes forever to set up, ages to get the hang of,
                           and aeons to play.  I recommend against this and most
                           Avalon Hill games unless you're willing to put in
                           a lot of time with your hard-core gamer friends, at
                           which point they are pretty decent.  -John
                           \_ how much of a hardcore gamer are you John?
                                \_ Not nearly enough to spend 3 days learning
                                   Rise &'re talking to Mr. short
                                   attention span here.  :-)  -John
        \_ Fist of Fury in My Pants.
        \_ Matrix Games is supposed to be releasing a PC version of
           the ultra-complicated Napoleonic classic Empires in Arms
           later this year.  Looks promising.
        \_ Cosmic Encounters.  After 3 sessions of CE with 6 or 7 players that
           last anywhere from 15 minutes to 8 hours you'll have earned your
           degree in Cosmic Lawyering and be ready to squish the little peons
           who normally argue in places like the US Supreme Court and the Motd.
           \_ is it a cutt-throat game?  More so than Diplomacy?
              \_ Diplomacy is for the weak.  It has set rules and a known
                 starting position.  Only the strong survive in the world
                 of Cosmic Encounter.
                 \_ Have you played CE against PSB?
                    \_ I would not dare challenge the psb.  I am beneath.
                       \_ I'm having a Big U moment.
                          \- hey i went 13 CE wins in a row ...
                             ATOMIC ENCOUNTER ... molon labe. --psb
2003/8/19-22 [Finance/Shopping] UID:29386 Activity:low
8/18    hi are you going to burning man?  would you like to buy
        a bunch of talkabout radios from me for very very cheap?
        let me know. - danh
        \_ can't you buy new walkie talkies at radio shack now for about five
           bucks?  are you offering them cheaper than that?
           \_ I didn't see your mom for sale at radio shack this time
        \_ Ok Ill buy them.
2003/8/19 [Computer/SW/Virus] UID:29387 Activity:high
8/19    Can somebody comment on the quality of the warez found in Kaaza?
        I need some apps and I found them on kaaza.  D/l them right now but
        it's taking a long time.  I'm wondering if they're generally valid
        warez.  The industry wants people to belive that they're all viruses,
        but I'm taking precautions and scanning them before using.  Thanks.
        \_ I've only d/l'd Partition Magic 8.0 & Photoshop 7.0. They seem to
           work fine.
        \_ First download Norton Antivirus.  Then scan all your downloaded
           \_ Sorry--for the humor-impaired that was a joke.  Yes, there are
              viruses on 5-10% of the downloads on Kazaa.
        \_ I've had good luck with usenet.  Never had a virus, worm, or
           anything else.  If something has a virus it's usually some 1 file
           program that claims to do something like get you free pr0n passwords
           or something like that.  Apply common sense and virus scanner and
           you'll be fine.
                \_ May I recommend as a good usenet interface
                   for binary downloads.  I have never gotten a dud from there,
                   and their zip manager for big fragmented downloads is
                   pretty good.
2003/8/19-20 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:29388 Activity:moderate
8/19    What's the difference between "make deinstall" in /usr/ports
        and "pkg_delete" in FreeBSD?
        \_ very little.  Perhaps some ports add extra rules to the deinstall
           routine, but "make deinstall" is there just for completeness (so ports
           users never have to deal with pkg_*).
           routine, but "make deinstall" is there just for completeness (so
           ports users never have to deal with pkg_*).
2003/8/19-20 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:29389 Activity:low
8/19    ilyas, is Command & Conquer a good game? Graphics look nice. If
        it's good tell me and I'll go get it
        \_ Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun is fun (especially multiplayer)
           -not ilyas
        \_ I hate RTS games with a passion, so I am the wrong person to ask.
             -- ilyas
        \_ C&C Generals is the most recent in the series.  It was fun enough.
           There are some balance issues between the 3 sides.  The single
           player campaign was ok but nothing fantastic and didn't have
           Westwood's more usual storyline and cut scenes.  No cut scenes at
           all in this one.  Overall its ok but lacks that certain spark that
           great games have.  Don't pay $50 for it unless you've got money
           burning a hole in your pocket.
2003/8/19 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/SCO] UID:29390 Activity:high
8/19    If SCO's UNIX code is already in the Linux Kernel source, why don't
        they just show everybody the relevant parts of their code? If it
        was just pasted in, then their code is no longer secret, and should
        be identical to the Linux code. Why the NDA?
        \_ because they're full of shit and they know it but
           they want to drag this out as long as possible and cause
           as much damage in the minds of IT people and programming
           managers as possible, as per their instructions from their
           not so secret corporate masters in Redmond.  assholes.
           \_ Will the evil assholes buy SCO?
           \_ So this is all a MS plot?  Uhm, yeah.  Idiot.
        \_ Probably because the instant they reveal it, coders will modify
           the source within the next hour, hence no more SCO code in Linux,
           hence they can't charge $199-$699 per copy of Linux.
        \_ SCO was going broke, then the new CEO came along.  He's like,
           "Whoa, we own rights to selling Unix(TM) licenses.  Unix(TM)!!
           Doesn't everyone use that?"  SCO tries to make IBM pay more.  IBM
           said, "We're moving everything to Linux, and it's free."  SCO:
           "You sure you didn't move Unix(TM) proprietary source code into
           Linux?"  IBM:  "No, and if we did, show us, and we'll fix it."
           SCO:  "We'll get back to you."

           A consultant for SCO says, "You know, they aren't too careful
           about the Linux source.  There's a lot of code, down to the
           comment level, taken from Unix(TM)."  SCO CEO says, "Whoa!  Linux
           has Unix(TM)-proprietary source code!  We got a case!"  This
           doesn't seem that evil to me.
           \_ the press releases and public statements from SCO remind
              me a lot of the ramblings of est followers. - danh
              \_ I thought it was "este".
           \_ On second thought, not revealing the problem source code is
              evil. -op of "SCO was going broke ..."
              \_ Damn right! Bwahaha! Why work when you can be Evil? And
                 even better, sell your insider stock on the bump for being
                 Evil and then act suprised when your lawsuit tanks and sucks
                 down the shell company with it. Evil works!
              \_ Why is it evil?  If they publish it and someone replaces it
                 all then it only confuses the issues further and it doesn't
                 relieve anyone of any legal guilt for prior actions anyway.
                 \_ To bring an infringement case against someone you have to
                    make an effort to limit the damages... which means telling
                    the accused party what your claims are.  If you move
                    straight into a lawsuit it shows you're only after money or
           \_ IBM/Linus's assimilating Unix(TM) source code is more
              believably accidental than willful.  To me at least, SCO can't
              ask people to pay for Unix(TM) licenses because the Linux
              source base accidentally includes Unix(TM) source code.  They
              can't do it without first telling them which part has been
              copied.  After identifying the problem code, SCO can also show
              how Unix(TM) didn't itself borrow the code from BSD or another
              free source. -op of "SCO was going broke ..."
              \_ Your opinions and feelings are nice and all but that's not
                 how the law works.  The law says you have to be responsible
                 and take responsibility for your actions.  The law doesn't
                 say you're required to spend your own time and energy helping
                 everyone not infringe on your property they've been using for
                 years and get nothing in return.
                 \_ troll
        \_ What's more evil? Stealing UNIX code to profit from it or to sue
           over your rights to UNIX code and profit?
           \_ If there is UNIX code in Linux, it will be removed.
2003/8/19-20 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:29391 Activity:nil
8/19    So is soda's version of SpamAssassin just woefully out of date, or is
        SA just incapable of defeating most spam these days?  I guess it doesn't
        help that any spammer can run his crap through SA beforehand as a test.
        \_ We need a Secret Anti Spammer program that spammers aren't allowed
           to use!  SA correctly nails 100% of my spam.
        \_ I encourage you to check out /csua/bin/ifile.*  It's a bayesian
           filter that works well for me.
2003/8/19-20 [Computer/Theory] UID:29392 Activity:kinda low
8/19    Machine learning people: what would you recommend for a reference
        on pattern classification? It seems Duda & Hart is the classic,
        but it's 30 years old -- is it still relevant? Any other
        exceptional texts? Thanks.
        \_ Tom Mitchell's book Machine Learning?
        \_ I am told there aren't exceptional ML books.  Stuart used
           Mitchell's book, and Bishop's neural network book.
        \_ if you want something not very mathematical, there are plenty of
           books out there that will teach you how to use a given
           software package to do what you want.
           if you want to understand what's happenning, i really like
           Hastie, Tibshirani and Friedman's book, the Elements of
           Statistical Learning. Duda&Hart is outdated and is pretty naive:
           there are lots of interesting links in ML, and D&H does not
           notice them (even the second edition, which is significantly
           revamped). Bishop's is very nice, but it doesn't cover a lot
           of topics. i haven't taken a good look at Mitchell's book, but
           i would pick hastie/tibsh/fried if i had to teach a class.
2003/8/19-20 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:29393 Activity:very high
8/19    Stupid Motd Poll.
        I play video games often/allthetime: .
        I play video games occasionally (<once a week): .
        I rarely/never play video games: ...
        \_ i put "often" but for me it happens in binges. other times i don't
           play for weeks.
           \_ i'm like this too, as i suspect many are. -phuqm
           \_ About once a year I'll play video games a lot for 2-3 weeks,
              but that averages to <once a week...
2003/8/19-20 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:29394 Activity:moderate
8/19    so i have a process which i put in cron which had an infinite loop
        generating errors.  These errors were taken by cron and mailed to
        me.  When it got to about 750 megs worth of mesg. procmail brought
        my box to a halt (loads of 26 and rising). Unable to type on the
        command line for the crazy swapping, i was forced to powercycle the
        server.  Now, Here's my question:  shouldn't sendmail/procmail or
        the OS or something have some sort of a mechanism that caps a
        runaway process like this so that i am at least able to get enough
        system resources to figure out what the hogging process is and kill
        it? -phuqm
        \_ i know the postfix mta has a "max mailbox size" setting,
           i have no idea what sendmail uses. - danh
        \_ No.
            \_ really, so you think it is reasonable program/OS design on
                a multi-user OS for an unpriveleged user to be able to
                easily bring the system to its knees? i mean, i always
                thought that was one of the reasons truely multi user OSes
                (i.e. unix) wher superior to Windows.  I could always just
                kill some run away process and a bad piece of software
                didn't bring down my whole box. But, i'm beginning to think
                the windows folks are right and it IS just a matter of more
                bad software being written_for/run_on windows.
                (even if the bad software is MS office) -phuqm
                \_ You could kill the process.  It would just take a long time.
                   the way to deal with this is with resource limits.
                   And the  traditional windows problem is much different,
                   this isn't the OS hanging or the scheduler not scheduling
                   your shell, it is a problem of the VM system thrashing
                   because you working set is significantly larger than
                   physical memory.  --jwm
         \_ Lottery scheduler with extra tokens for interactive processess!
2003/8/19 [Uncategorized] UID:29395 Activity:nil
8/19    Where can i get the cheapest checks?
2018/12/10 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:August:19 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>